Friday, January 25, 2013

Sifting Through the Lies


Above all, don’t lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.   ~Fyodor Dostoevsky


It has been interesting to read the responses to Lance Armstrong's love overdue "confession" during his interview with Oprah Winfrey. The overwhelming response seems to be "uh...what took you so long."
I'm compulsively honest. The weight of a lie is a burden that I can hardly manage. Even "little white lies" – "That haircut looks great!" – leave me feeling...unclean. Which is why I could barely fathom the level of deception that my husband was capable of during his cheating. And, from the comments I get on this blog, it's a common refrain of betrayed wives. "How could he lie to me?" they ask, incredulous.
Honestly? I don't know.
But Lance Armstrong and Dostoevsky's quote give us a clue.
For starters, lies conveniently allow us to do what we want while avoiding negative consequences. And though I called myself compulsively honest, in the wake of my husband's deception I took a long hard look at my own relationship to the truth. And there are many ways to lie, including lies by omission, or only owning up to part of the truth. It's all dishonest.
But outright look-me-in-the-eyes-and-lie deception? That's beyond my ability.
My husband, however, is a master.
It's a skill he developed over years of growing up in a highly judgmental home. His parents disapproved of many things – his friends, his course selection, his music, premarital sex. Far easier than living with their disapproval or fighting for what mattered to him was lying. His teen years were almost like a double life. He was a "good" kid at home where his parents could see him but he was someone different away from home. I should have been tipped off when, early in our marriage, my husband advised me on the best way to deal with his mother. "Just tell her what she wants to hear, then do what you want," he said simply. I laughed. Turned out he wasn't joking. That was exactly how he "handled" me too.
It sounds psychopathic. And in some ways lying is exactly that. It's manipulative. It's hurtful. It's disrespectful. But for many people, it's survival. The idea of owning up to who they really are is terrifying. If they're not these "good" people who follow the rules, then who are they?
But life isn't black or white. All of us, even someone like me who calls herself compulsively honest, has thoughts that I keep hidden. I don't tell my friend, for example, that I think her 18-year-old son is sexy as hell. I know I wouldn't act on my thoughts. But I feel perverted...and a bit ashamed. He's a child, for god's sake. So I "lie" by omission. But I'm being honest with myself that I'm a 48-year-old woman attracted to a young man. That doesn't make me "bad". It makes me human. And it's healthier than telling myself that I'm not like that. Than lying to myself.
As Dostoevsky points out, too much lying blurs the truth within ourselves. We start to believe our own lies. In a marriage vulnerable to infidelity it can take the form of "my wife always nags me", "no-one appreciates me" or "she doesn't like sex the way I do." None of which may be true, or they may be partly true. But they become the complete truth, and offer some sort of implicit permission to step outside the marriage.
I remember watching Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith tell an interviewer once that they share their attraction to other people with each other. At the time it seemed almost cruel. Now though I can see that by sharing that part of themselves – which goes against our idea of a perfect marriage meaning we'll never be attracted to anyone but our spouse – it puts both husband and wife on the same team. By pulling those shameful parts of ourself into the light of day, we can deal with them and defeat them. Or accept them as part of the whole.
So many of us, in the wake of discovering our spouse's affair, are stunned by the lies. But by taking a "how could he!" stand – shocked and disapproving – we prevent any opportunity to really explore exactly what lies were being told about the relationship. And not just by the cheater.
I had to admit that, although I wailed about the loss of my "perfect" marriage, I hadn't been all that happy for quite a while. My marriage wasn't perfect at all. It was good. And it was worth saving. But I had been ignoring my own malcontent in favor of peace.
My husband, once he was able to talk to me candidly and without fear of repercussion, owned up to years of lies. The result of a lifetime of feeling shame about who he was. He was tired of the mask. He was sick of the lies.
And, if I'm to be completely honest, I saw the signs and lied to myself. It was easier than facing the truth.
Which is why, after sifting through my husband's lies, I began to examine my own. The lie I lived to the world about my "perfect marriage". The lie I lived for a decade when my mother was in and out of psychiatric hospitals that I was "fine".
Striving toward a life lived with authenticity keeps us clear about when we might veer into a lie, including one we're telling ourself. By allowing others that same freedom to be honest with us, even when it might hurt, we're far more likely to prevent a more painful deception.
It's hard to allow ourselves and others to fully be themselves. To reveal things that are ugly and wrong. But by pulling our ugly selves out from the shadows and acknowledging they exist, we strip them of their power over us.
What's more, we gain an ability to recognize lies. We learn to trust that part of ourself that nudges us when something doesn't seem quite right. And that ability to trust ourselves is more likely to keep us safe than anything anyone else can ever tell us.

29 comments:

  1. I'm over 3 years after D-day and I'm *still* waiting for him to own up to the lies. How long did it take before your husband owned up? It's not an easy topic. I grew up in the judgemental house myself and was severely punished (read that: physical abuse) by a narcissistic mother who would beat us over *any* appearance of lying, real or percieved (never mind she's the biggest liar of them all) - so I, too, am compulsively honest. My husband, on the other hand, is the charming raconteur..and his white lies rub me soooo wrong but they've never been so blatant that I can call him out on it. I think we "overcorrect" - that is, we recognize our own compulsive honesty but still tell ourselves it's ok since "most" people do it.

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    1. My husband owned up pretty quickly (though after years of lying, though I had no idea he was lying). Once D-Day hit, I pretty much gave him the choice to tell me everything (and I meant EVERYTHING) or move out. Over the next few days/weeks, I was like some sort of interrogator -- all hours of day/night, details that made him sob with shame. I showed no mercy.
      In hindsight, there were many things I would have been better of not knowing. But I've also forgotten a lot of what he told me. And the positive aspect of finally feeling like I was the one in possession of the truth/power shifted our relationship in a way that helped us go forward.
      At this point, what do you need to know? Do you have the broad strokes of his affair? What are you feeling you're missing? Are you two in counselling to make sense or your damaging childhood and subsequent issues in relationships? I'm glad you understand how cruel your mother's behaviour was...but sometimes taking the opposite approach can be equally harmful to ourselves.
      I know how horrible this can still feel, even three years out. But I hope you'll treat it like something standing in the way of you moving forward into healing.

      Elle

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  2. I keep asking my H when it started...when it ended. Everytime he opens his mouth it's something different. When last week the affair ended in June, yesterday it ended in September. I don't know why this is sooo major to me but it is. I feel like the shorter the affair was the better! He was home ALL summer wirh me and the boys, how could he be sexting her around us?!?!? He told me that he wouldnt do summer activites with us because "he was fat"! so when i was at the beach with our children he was sharing videos with her! So hes too fat to be with us but can send sex videos, naked i assume, to her! ummm lie? It makes me very mad when the story changes and I get furious and shut down. How do I sit quietly and listen to his answers, that I desperately want to be the truth, but may not be? How do I say nothing? How do we communicate again?!?!?!?

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    1. It's crucial for our ability to make sense of the world following an affair to feel as if we have the absolute truth. Our trust in ourselves, in feeling safe, depends on believing that we can discern lies from truth. So when that's compromised, we feel very unsafe.
      I know of many women who insist on lie detector tests to get the whole story. It always seemed pretty extreme to me but some women swear it finally got the whole story out in the open...and allowed them to then move forward. Could you ask for a "full disclosure" session with a marriage counsellor? In which your husband has to answer all your questions...but since there's a third party there, he can trust you're not going to shoot him? So much of the lying, half-truths, etc. are rooted in fear. That if you knew the whole story you'd walk out the door. Or shame that he actually did what he did. There's such relief (bizarre, I know) in simply feeling like you've got the truth.
      There's no way your marriage can survive without honest communication. What if you promised your husband (only if you're able to keep the promise) that you won't react with screaming/hysteria/whatever if he answers all your questions. You can give him a list and he can write down his answers after thoroughly considering each question. There could be much that he simply can't remember clearly. But, to the best of his ability, you need answers.
      Try explaining to him how crucial a piece this is in putting your marriage back together. And see if you can come up with a plan together.

      Elle

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    2. It took me a while to really put my finger on what it was that made me feel betrayed the most. Finding out that the man I loved and trusted more than anyone had had an affair was absolutely devastating for me. However, I found that as devastating as the affair was it was all the lies that really did the damage. I never would have suspected my husband was lying to me so naturally every time I asked him anything about what he'd done I instantly believed him every single time. It took weeks to finally get the whole truth out of him. My husband has always been an honest man and I'm not saying that because I was blind to his faults. He was the kind if person who wouldn't even tell the little white lies. Like if there was someone calling that I didn't feel like talking to he wouldn't even lie for me by saying I wasn't home. He'd hand me the phone and make me take care of it myself. So I never would have thought in a million years he would ever lie to me. When I finally got him to tell me everything I asked him why he didn't just tell me everything from the start. He said that he didn't think I was ready to hear the answers at the time so he only revealed little bits of truths at a time. But what he still doesn't understand is that it was the added lies he spoke with those bits of truths that did all the damage. My husbands affair wasn't a physical affair, it was an emotional affair. He never actually met up with her in person it was all done online by email, chat and Skype. It took him awhile to realize and understand that what he'd done was actually an affair. In his mind it was fairly innocent because he didn't have sex with another woman. But it was the fact that he shared personal and intimate details of our lives with this woman that he should have been sharing with me. That he was looking to someone else to console him instead of me. He just didn't get it, I still feel at times like he doesn't get why I feel so betrayed.

      It's been about six months since I found out and I am still having a difficult time trusting him. I wish I could get past this already because its driving me more than a little crazy already but its not easy rebuilding the trust that was once there. I still feel like there are things I need to know but then I stop myself from asking. I think I'm too scared to hear the answer. I know it can't go on like this because its not healthy for me or our marriage. I'm just not sure where to go from here.

      You had some great suggestions Elle, it definitely gave me something to think about.

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    3. Six months might feel like a lifetime but, in healing time, it's not so long. What cheaters don't understand is that the trickle truth, the bit-by-bit revealing of the whole story, simply retraumatizes the betrayed every time a new detail emerges. It's like a big bomb goes off, which makes us shell-shocked and then every time there's a smaller bomb, we respond as if it's a big one. Definitely not conducive to re-establishing safety.
      My guess is you have all the info you NEED to have -- that he violated the boundaries of the marriage by becoming emotionally intimate with another woman. The rest is pain shopping. But pay attention to the fact that you're feeling uncertain. Is there more he could be doing to reassure you? Is there something that just isn't adding up? Our guts can be great compasses. But in the wake of trauma, they can also over-react. The challenge for us is figuring out when to pay attention and when not to.
      Are you in counselling? If not, might help to talk over this unease with a counsellor.

      Elle

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    4. Thank you so much for your response. In the last six months this is the first time I have ever told anyone about what happened. So in answer to your question, no I am not in counseling. I've known for about a month now that I absolutely need to see a counsellor. I thought about it early on after initially found out and was totally prepared to take that first step and book an appointment. But things started going so well for us. We were spending lots of alone time together, we talked about our relationship and what we both wanted in our marriage. We sent letters to each other every other day at first and as our relationship grew stronger the letters became more of a weekly thing. At first the letters were more about our feelings and what kind of things we felt we needed from the other person to keep our marriage strong. The letters later turned into love letters and he said things in his letters that he hadn't said in a long time. I felt in love with my husband again and truly felt that he too was completely in love with me again.

      But no matter how loved he makes me feel I just can't get the sheer number of lies he told me out of my mind. I still check his email and Facebook history and all his computer history as well. I haven't found anything and as far as I can tell he has been 100% faithful and honest with me. Yet I can't seem to stop myself from checking up on him. I guess what gets to me the most is I feel like I was an idiot for not noticing sooner. I never doubted him for a second, not once during the time it was going on did I ever suspect a thing. Which makes me feel like every thing that happen last year was a great big lie!! We went away for our anniversary last year and when I think of our marriage at that time it was all a lie. I was so oblivious, he used my computer at times to do what he did and I never noticed once. He was going on dating sites and using our Paypal account to pay for it and I never noticed once and I get notifications when a payment goes through. Why didn't I notice all the signs, it's like he wanted to get caught and I was too blind to see it. I feel like I took our marriage for granted and just trusted that he would never do something like that to us.

      I know I need to see a counsellor, even though we seem to back on track again and all seems well I am finding that the anger seems to be getting worse. I don't take it out on him, I just keep it inside and continue to check up on him. I know it's not healthy so I am finally going to speak to someone about it.

      Again, thank you so much for the advice. You have no idea how good it felt to finally speak to someone else about it. It's so great to hear someone else's thoughts on my situation.

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    5. Yes, I do have an idea how good it feels to finally speak to someone else about this... Believe me, I know. It's the reason I created this site. It's crucial to find people who absolutely get what you're going through and can support you in whatever path to healing you choose.
      Many of us here will say that we had no idea too. So don't beat yourself up about that. However, note that this fear of not being able to trust yourself is part of the post-trauma stuff. We're so afraid we'll miss the signs again that we're hyper-vigilant, "on alert". It makes sense in the short term but in the long term it's emotionally and physically unhealthy.
      I hope you will seek counselling. Just someone to talk to face to face about this and explore some of these lingering effects. But ensure it's someone who understands infidelity. Not all do.

      Elle

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  3. Yes, yes, yes, thank you. I identify so much with your words today. I also have a husband who is a very nice guy, but to save his skin, grew up learning how to be a very good liar. And I, like you, bristle at the thought of being dishonest in any way, shape or form. But truth be told, our "happy" marriage had some chinks in its armor...chinks that I was unable or unwilling to recognize until the discovery of his affair made me take a long, hard look at what a truly happy marriage really looked like to me.

    So now we hold each other to a new standard. One of honesty and loving-kindness and attentiveness. And even the little white lies that I used to let pass?... My radar is up, and that isn't going to fly anymore. And authenticity feels really, really good.

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    1. Stephanie,
      It does feel good doesn't it? To hold yourself to a higher standard? Even little things that I used to say to my kids (ie. "the movie store is closed" or "we can't afford a chocolate bar right now" -- basically avoiding a battle) I simply won't anymore. And I call them and my husband on "little white lies." My fourteen-year-old tends toward the dramatic, which often involves exaggerating the truth or minimizing the truth, depending on what suits her. And I've told her that each time she's less than honest, it reduces my trust in her.
      Glad you weighed in with your thoughts. It's so important for those just learning of their spouse's affair to read from women who've managed to rebuild a healthier marriage...and find silver lining.
      Thank-you.

      Elle

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  4. I wonder what details are relevant and what aren't? Is me wanting to know exactly what they would text each other relevant? Is knowing the start, who started...the end, who ended it and how relevant? I don't know what the important questions are? Should I not ask to protect myself? Which is his rationale...dont tell to protect me or himself? I want him literally to take me day by day from the beginning to the end! I'm mental!!! I just want peace...how do I get there?

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    1. Gathering,
      I don't think there are hard and fast rules to what's relevant and what's not...though I think rough guidelines include knowing exactly when it started, when it ended, whether protection was used (either way, it's important to be tested for STDs -- YUCK). The rest (what was said by him, by her, about you) is what's often called "pain shopping" -- wanting details that don't really do anything other than make you feel terrible and angry. I used the 24-hour rule once I recognize how much of what I was asking him was making me crazy. I would stop before asking a question and do my best to wait 24 hours. If I still wanted to know then, I would ask. Most of the time, I'd forgotten the specific question.
      Peace will come...but only when you're able to trust that you will be okay no matter what you learn or what you decide to do about it. That you, in this moment, are okay...

      Elle

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  5. I have a question for Elle and others who have been in this a while. How do you ever feel that your husband is now satisfied with a "normal" life, having sex with just you, not doing things he used to do before to make life more "exciting"? In my husband's case, things like drinking/coke/porn/occassional hookups with the OW (that involved drinking/coke/porn...). There are things he did with her that I won't do (drugs) and sexual things I'm not sure if I want to do or have tried in the past and not liked. That hurt a lot--that he did things with her that he knew I didn't like. It is hard to feel that our life could be "enough" for him. Is he lying to himself or to me when he says that it is? We are trying to find healthier outlets for him (athletic or creative), but it's hard to find any that compare. Sometimes I feel like I am boring. But I think I am just normal. With some extra anxiety thrown in!
    Liz

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    1. Hi Liz,
      I think many of us, whether our husbands engaged in drug/porn/outrageous sex or just garden-variety sex with another person, struggle with that feeling that life with us is "enough". And I think the question says more about ourselves and our feelings of inadequacy than about our spouses themselves.
      But I nonetheless know what you mean. My husband, a sex addict, did things that I simply can't do (I don't have a penis, for example), so I've occasionally wondered if sex with me can ever be enough. But that's a decision for my husband to make. I can only ever be me...and I get to decide what "me" likes and doesn't like. What "me" will and won't do. He gets to decide whether that's "enough".
      What my husband has learned is that those cravings for excitement/variety/thrill come from a place within himself that is empty and lonely and anxious. And that seeking those things out never really did fill that emptiness or loneliness. They distracted him for a while. And they were exciting when they were happening. But ultimately they left him feeling ashamed and disgusted with himself. Not because the specific acts were necessarily disgusting or bad (to each his own, right?) but because he had lied and deceived and used people in order to do them.
      So your husband has to decide who he really is and what he's willing to do. We all make compromises in life, usually giving up lesser things in order to achieve more important things. I, for example, don't spend my kids' college fund on designer handbags. I'd love a Coach bag...but it's more important to me to have funds for my kids' education. See what I mean?
      Whether you're "enough" for your husband isn't for you to determine. You simply must be who you are. And you must determine what your boundaries are. It's more appealing to consider engaging in less-conventional sex acts within the context of an incredibly trusting relationship. If you and your husband are able to create that level of trust/intimacy, then you might be willing to experiment a bit. Or you might not. But that's YOUR choice. It's HIS choice whether what else you offer is worth it. And I suspect it is.
      Affairs are about being selfish. They're about taking what you want without regard for a commitment you've made. If it was easy to "forsake" others, we wouldn't need to enshrine it in our marriage vows. If we're honest, all of us would love to have forbidden sex with someone who makes us feel sexy and desirable, with no strings attached. But we don't. Because we want all those other things that only come with a committed relationship. Someone to empty our barf bucket. Someone to hold our hand when a friend hurts us. Someone to love us, for better or worse.
      So your question is really, can my husband be happy compromising? We all do it to some extent. He needs to determine the level of compromise he's willing to make in order to have all the wonderful things that a life with you offers. And I'm guessing those things – loyalty, kindness, warmth, love, honesty – are not "boring" at all.
      (Incidentally, is your husband in treatment for drug/alcohol use? Someone willing to cheat in order to "use" just might have an addiction/cross-addiction.)

      Elle

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  6. Elle, this is the cheating husband. I grew up in what I think was a normal home. My parents divorced when I was 15.. But it was not a dramatic divorce... Though it was painful. What gets me about "me" is that sometimes I have a funky way of liking my charm. I think I am a people pleaser.. After multiple affairs I'm having to so my best in being honest in multiple layers. We are so far from me getting off the couch, if ever I do, but I hope my honesty to her is a mentoring tool to my boys (20 and 14). I KNOW I am a good lier. I also can fake my own self out. The atmosphere that I created in my home has turned it into just a house. She has very right to tell me. To leave. She said she feels 80% dead. I don't wanna leave or I would have already. I'm just ready for the process to gain some traction beyond where we are. Not for her to just "move on" but to talk openly about truth instead of just keeping busy. Truth is so tough for me. If the truth will "set us free" wether it's divorce or true healing, I have to brave myself for the journey of being an honest man in a dishonest world. Ugh!

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    1. I know for my husband, lying became a natural thing to do. I notice that he often lies when it's just as easy to tell the truth. That line has become so blurred over time.
      I can imagine it's tough to start being totally honest and transparent after such a long time of lying to protect yourself. But I can also imagine that living a dishonest life isn't a very fulfilling way to be. Allowing yourself to be totally "seen" – for exactly who you are and what you stand for – is frightening but also deeply rewarding. And I can't help but wonder if all those lies have been a way of protecting yourself from being too vulnerable or exposed.
      Are you in any kind of counselling? Might help you sort through the puzzle of why you've chosen lies over honesty for so long. As you point out, you certainly want your two boys to learn positively from your experience.
      Good luck. Lots of really great people doing really shitty things for reasons they don't understand. I hope you can find your way out of this mess.

      Elle

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  7. Thanks Elle.. I do have a question.. How could I direct her to your blog? We have spent tins of money on different counslers.. Even before I had my first affair. I read the posts here and think... Dang! She could benifet from this site. We are still in the very early stages of me being exposed to my last affair, so if I tell her about this... Or she see's that I'm even commenting on here she would freak... Even though my motives are healthy.. Even though she has the right to believe they aren't

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    1. I'm curious why she'd be angry that you're posting. It's anonymous. And clearly you're trying to understand yourself. In order for you to commit to honesty, you have to believe it's "safe" to be honest. Otherwise there's little incentive for it.
      This might be one of those "learning" moments when you have to be honest, even though you can't be sure your honesty will be received well. And she needs to, perhaps, acknowledge that she doesn't always make honesty appealing if you end up feeling punished for it.
      Sounds as if you both have issues around honesty. :)
      I think the best way to let her know about this site is to tell her that you've been looking everywhere for help and understanding on how to be a better man (assuming that's true!) and that you stumbled on this site and think it might help her. Then leave it to her. She may seek it out, she may not. You can't control her actions; you only control your own. And I think it might come as novel to you that simply telling the truth is generally the easiest path. No ulterior motives. No half-truths. No bullshit.

      Elle

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  8. Elle, I am new to your blog and just so glad to have found it. I am 3 months out from D-day and not doing great of course. One of the things that really bother me is the secrecy in which this affair is dealt with. I believe that at some point it would help me enormeously if my husband would have the courage to apologize to our children, my parents, his family and any of our friends who know about the affair for his betrayal. There is so much shame for the betrayed spouse that comes with this secrecy. I would like to know your thoughts about that. Should an apology to the community that is "in the know" be part of a meaningful healing process?

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    1. Kiag,

      I'm glad you found us too...though sorry you had to.

      Ya know, I've never really thought of an apology to those in the know as part of healing for the betrayed spouse. I think, in part, because anything that depends on another's behaviour for us to heal is tricky. But also because...I've never really thought of it.
      You're absolutely right in the shame that the betrayed spouse feels, especially when it is kept hush-hush. It's like WE'VE done something to be ashamed of and we feel complicit in the other's shame.
      However, it takes a big man to apologize and a lot of guys who conduct affairs do so because they're not the most emotionally evolved. They might get to a point where they develop a sort of emotional literacy and understand why they did what they did, and can therefore sincerely apologize to those they hurt with their deceit. But that, I think might be further down the road for some guys.
      That said, if that's what you need from your spouse in order to feel like you can move forward, then tell him, clearly, why you need this. But try not to hold your breath. Give him time to digest it and then come back to you with why he either can, or cannot do it. It's so hard in the early days to acknowledge just how ashamed he likely feels because, really, why the hell should we care? But in order for both to move forward, it's important to try and acknowledge each other's pain through this.
      Let me know how it goes. You've got me thinking more about this....

      Ellle

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  9. This is an interesting topic to me because I asked my husband to do just that, apologize to other people for his behavior. His most recent affair lasted about five years. He appeared in public places with her in front of people who knew both of us and some who did not know me, but who knew he was married. He took her on hiking trips, with other people, on biking trips, and even on some church mission trips! He also appeared with her in the company of a friend of ours and former neighbor of over 30 years, who knew me well. I felt that this behavior was so demeaning and disrespectful of me, as his wife, that I asked him to contact those people and apologize to them for disrespecting me. He agreed to do this. I feel that through his doing that, I salvaged a
    little of my self respect and self esteem. I was not concerned with his pain or embarrassment in the least, as he had not been concerned with mine when he chose to do what he did.

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  10. Elle and Stephanie C.,

    I am a husband, and not on who has had an affair. I want to commend you for having some evolved ideas about "lies" and "truth." I know if I were in the very early stages after D-day it would be very difficult to be the only acknowledged liar if there had been years of denial about the quality of the relationship. I may feel too guilty and ashamed at the time to realize I was not the only one culpable, but when I did come to that realization, my wife's lack of willingness to own her part would bring progress to a halt. It may be 80% me and 20% her, but I would expect her to own her 20%. When the partner cheats, wife or husband, it's so easy and natural, and yes comforting, to play the wounded "How could you?" card as opposed to asking "How did we create an environment in which this could happen?" Going back to your comment about ignoring how "good" the marriage isn't: That was when you chose to lie, if only by omission, and not come clean.
    Few wives would be willing to acknowledge there was a time to press the issue to action, not bury it in the name of "peace" or out of fear that dealing with it might be the beginning of the end. I liken it to when one partner is so stressed that they finally utter the words "separation" or "divorce." In the name of peace, they denied themselves into an affair, divorce or both.

    Speaking of truth: "I don't tell my friend, for example, that I think her 18-year-old son is sexy as hell. I know I wouldn't act on my thoughts. But I feel perverted...and a bit ashamed. He's a child, for god's sake." If he were an 18-year-old high school graduate or, worse, dropout working for the lawn care company mowing the grass shirtless with a buff body and you felt he was sexy, what would be perverted or shameful about that. He's either sexy or he isn't and there is no guilt or crime in recognizing that, or acting on it for that matter, unless you are married.

    "But I'm being honest with myself that I'm a 48-year-old woman attracted to a young man. That doesn't make me "bad". It makes me human. And it's healthier than telling myself that I'm not like that. Than lying to myself." Absolutely, which was my point above. Even if you chose to pursue him (not talking about the friend's son here of course. Pretty clumsy, that.) it would not be perverted or something to be ashamed about feeling. A desirable match? Not my call. Would I have an opinion? Yeah, especially if it were my son. But to feel shame or perversion, naw. The hormones and heart want what they want. Yes, I do understand you are not contemplating this and it was just an illustration of the white lie of omission and that even the most adamant of truth tellers, or avowed "non-lier's", are capable of not sharing the truth. Thanks for sharing.

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    1. Thanks for your thoughts. I'm always glad when a guy feels comfortable posting here. I, not sure there is as much support for you guys.

      Elle

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  11. Elle, I also appreciate your ability to explain and sympathize with those of us who try to understand the lies, how and why they become a chosen way of communication for some. My H learned to operate this way, and I was desperately trying to understand it. How he could not only cheat, but lie with such ease, and then engage in manipulating and gas-lighting me? It was unfathomable to me, but he comes from an extended family of men who lie and cheat--it's the only example he's had his entire life. I was trying to make him confront it and change, mostly because one of the first things he said to me post-discovery was "there's something wrong with me." I've been trying to "help" him to see this is no way to live, but during our attempts at reconciliation (we spent over a year in counseling) he fell back into the lying and gaslighting (contacting the OW after promising not to, and when I suspected he said I was paranoid). I feel like I keep battling his ego--he has moments of honesty and sincere remorse, and then I feel like he quickly changes into defensive mode when it becomes too painful for him to confront what he's done. I know I can't MAKE him confront why he lies/cheats and how to stop...but when do I just let go? When do I stop trying to empathize with an H who won't confront this part of himself? After I found out about his contact with OW, we spent a few weeks apart. He is now back at home and wants to "prove to me" he's changed, but I am not sure where to go from here. All I feel is the same daily anxiety, shame, and overall sadness of where we've ended up.

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    1. Hi Anon,
      It's so incredibly frustrating. We KNOW how great this guy could be if only he________. I'm sure you can fill in the blank with any number of things: stopped lying, stopped cheating, listened to me, got counselling...
      So far, the only evidence you have that your husband wants to change is his words saying so. His recent actions seem to be telling a different story entirely.
      I completely get how hard it is to let go of someone we love and whom we really think is redeemable. But you can't "help" him with this. This is entirely on him. All you can do is treat him with honesty and respect...which is what you're asking of him. And that's hardly too much to ask. He learned to lie and cheat from his family...but even he admits that's it's "wrong". What is he doing on his own to learn healthier ways of being in a relationship? Is he in counselling on his own? Does he attend any sort of self-help group? Read anything to gain insight into his behaviour?
      The fact that you're feeling anxiety and shame and sadness is your cue that this is not healthy for you.
      What, exactly, do you need from him? What does "proof" look like to you? You're at a fork in the road and you can either state your conditions for reconciliation-- including EVERYTHING you need from him to move forward. Or you can cut your losses and move on from a life of "anxiety, shame and overall sadness". There's no right or wrong choice here. But you can't keep on as you have been. He either meets you where YOU are...or you let him go. You're the one calling the shots, you get to make the demands. He either agrees to it (with clear boundaries around what happens if he fails to meet those demands -- ie. makes contact or whatever) or he doesn't.
      I suspect your compassion for his point of view is standing in the way of you taking care of yourself. Your first responsibility is to care for you and ensure that you're treating yourself with respect. Once you're doing that, it's a lot easier to recognize when someone else isn't.

      Hang in there. And keep us posted.

      Elle

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    2. Thanks, Elle. No, he is not doing any of that on his own. I have been trying observe his choices since he came back, and I haven't seen any that involve self analysis or even seeking info/help for us as a couple. However, he says he has changed, he just doesn't know how to show me. I have asked for transparency in email/phone communication. The problem here again is his ego interfering because he can't get past being resentful/embarrassed about having to be "monitored". He finally offered recently, but I refused because he gets irritated-what's the point if it creates yet another division between us?? He let's me look at his phone occasionally, but with a lot of huffing and puffing in irritation. Everything you mentioned would help me: him going to counseling, reading helpful info, self-analysis, etc. He has been more open with me than he has before, but it's not enough. It's certainly not proving he's changed; as you said, because I've only got his word on that. He really feels I'm just being too hard on him, and dwelling on it all to much...I feel like he just doesn't get it...it's a vicious cycle with endless conversations that seem to go nowhere. It's hard for me to think of ending my marriage, but I'm afraid if he never puts the work in to make me trust him, what's left for me?

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    3. He doesn't get it. If he got it, he would understand that this isn't about you "monitoring" him, it's about you alleviating fear/anxiety and consistently gaining evidence that you can start to trust him again. Whether he likes it or not, he's revealed himself as a liar. So only a crazy person would treat him as someone trustworthy. His "word", because of his own actions, isn't worth anything at this point.
      That you're willing to give him a chance to re-earn your trust should be treated like a privilege, because it is.
      You have to respect yourself and your need to be safe. And the only way you can feel safe is to create boundaries around what you will and will not tolerate. This isn't about punishing him; it's about taking care of yourself and re-establishing a way to feel safe in the world. Figure out what you need in order to feel that. Try to focus on what you can reasonably do yourself (ie. no sex until he's been tested for STDs; he sleeps on the couch until he's willing to seek counselling). You can't force him to take a hard look at the consequences of his actions but you can protect yourself from further hurt. And there's no doubt that his refusal to acknowledge the depth of your pain and refusal to take steps to help you heal is creating further hurt.
      You've brought up a common scenario -- he says he's "sorry" but won't go further than that. Makes sense to address it in a future blog post. Stay tuned.

      Elle

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  12. One of my biggest problems with my h is his lying. We have been married for twenty years and I just found out about an affair he had been having for over a year. The woman he was having an affair with didn't know he was married. The lies hr told her were crazy. He made up a different last name, he made up a divorce story, he lied about which house he lived in, and he printed out a picture from the internet of a woman and told her he was seeing her also. These are just a few of the lies he told her. Then he would come home and lie to me about where he had been. He would even make up stories about what had happened when he was out. Err have started counseling and I have brought up his problems with lying but how will I ever know if he has truly changed. I know he truly regrets everything he has done but how much can a person change.

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    1. My husband was a master liar. And it's interesting that you posted your comment because I just realized on this past weekend that he still does lie. Stupid little things, like telling me he walked our dogs for 25 minutes when it was 10. He lies to avoid people's disappointment or annoyance. It's a survival skill for him, left over from childhood, when his parents' constant disapproval was debilitating. It was easier to tell them what they wanted to hear.
      But it's something I plan to bring up with our marriage counsellor tomorrow.
      So…you ask how much a person can change. I believe people can change a lot. I don't, however, think it's easy. I think it takes a daily dedication toward change. A constant mindfulness that steers us toward desirable behaviour and away from undesirable behaviour.
      The impetus will be your husband's absolute disappointment in himself. If he's truly disgusted by just how out of control he got, then he's far more likely to be willing to make the necessary changes. It might always be a struggle for him. Lying might be his fallback behaviour -- when he's feeling stressed or under fire. However, as long as he's willing to do his best to keep it in check then I think he can change.

      Elle

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