tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post8848670277819600709..comments2024-03-27T21:50:33.178-04:00Comments on Betrayed Wives' Club: Changing our MindsEllehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-46366768277909039292017-04-30T20:13:08.082-04:002017-04-30T20:13:08.082-04:00This touched me tonight. I am new here, been readi...This touched me tonight. I am new here, been reading off and on a few weeks. So many words are helping. Sometimes I feel like a fool for not kicking my husband out after dday. He had a long term emotional affair with a coworker. Even though we di decide together he would not leave his job (and she has not left either) it is a struggle. I stugglr to believe what he says is truth, even when he has donr everything he said he would do. It is hard and yet when i sit down and factor the cost of leaving against the cost of staying I still feel staying is where I need to be. I need to believe in myself, in who I am and who I want to be, believe I am making the best choices I can for me, for my marriage, for my kids, even when the pain is still so great one year out. Some things i just can't forget no matter how hard I try. Thanks for helping me feel less alone.Trying to healnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-67526382857869316162017-04-09T17:48:22.699-04:002017-04-09T17:48:22.699-04:00NewMom
Could you share how you work through your ...NewMom<br /><br />Could you share how you work through your triggers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-35949885549640154662017-03-31T21:23:33.362-04:002017-03-31T21:23:33.362-04:00NewMom
I feel your pain on the porn use! My h and ...NewMom<br />I feel your pain on the porn use! My h and I had a big blow up that he chose to view porn while I was in the bedroom one afternoon thinking about a nap that wouldn't happen. Early post dday. He didn't understand that it felt like cheating all over again! Men just don't understand what their choice to cheat in what ever form they do does to our sense of worth! Until they understand how we're different they don't know how to change their behavior! I'm sure my h still views some porn, but he damn sure doesn't do it when I'm around! My boundaries come before his carnal desires!Theresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767712425596090138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-52730122929958371732017-03-30T18:40:46.347-04:002017-03-30T18:40:46.347-04:00I think that I had him on a very high pedestal. H...I think that I had him on a very high pedestal. He made the comment to the OW how he didn't know how the whole thing started. That it wasn't anything that he ever wanted and she replied that she had planned everything and brushed it off like it was nothing. We had a very long talk the other night about this whole mess and I found out things that made more sense now then they did 19 months ago. It was a conversation we should have had then. This is something that I have to change in me to feel that deep love again. I so appreciate the support from everyone here. Thank you all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-56418655970950558042017-03-30T18:40:15.370-04:002017-03-30T18:40:15.370-04:00Thank you all for your kind and supportive replies...Thank you all for your kind and supportive replies. We continue to have the hard conversations. I think he's beginning to see how and why his porn usage is damaging to me. I know I must establish my boundaries and stick to them. Easier said than done, right? I'm still learning.... The women I've found here have been such a source of comfort and strength. Thanks for sharing your stories and insights!! Hugs to all.New Momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-11142217604876348832017-03-30T05:43:29.906-04:002017-03-30T05:43:29.906-04:00Thanks for the further responses to my dilemma, yo...Thanks for the further responses to my dilemma, you sum it up well Elle, I'm good at seeing all sides so I feel bad about making a point. Funny what you suggested, I was going to put the double lock on the front door so he'd have to knock, instead, my daughter was staying at her cousin's so I went and slept in her room instead. I thought he might wonder where I was but he just assumed I was in another room and went straight to sleep. He always texts on the way home from work now. He doesn't go out late very often (this early hours incident three times in the last year and a half) but at a point he gets carried away and then his phone runs out of charge (this is true, I checked but there are devices for keeping them topped up.) We aren't in therapy, looks like his company is closing so right now there is no cash. I do feel we need some help when we can though. I said it would mean we couldn't act as if in a relationship for a while till he could give it the attention it deserved but once I stop being mad I felt closer. I need to check in here to ensure I can figure out if he is doing all he can, he is doing a lot but he also has a tendency to coast if he can get away with it. Fragments of Hopenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-35784602896947488592017-03-29T17:05:05.041-04:002017-03-29T17:05:05.041-04:00Anonymous, I also see my husband differently now. ...Anonymous, I also see my husband differently now. It will never be the same or like it was for those first 35 years. He is not the man I thought he was. I am now learning about the man he is and the child he was that helped lead him down the path he chose. I am committed to my marriage and recovery. Initially it was for our adult kids and grandkids but after 21 months I am now really looking at this for me and us. I know it will never be the same for me and I don't have a clue what anything meant to him over the years. I do know that as he slipped deeper into his addiction and pain, he hated himself and felt hopeless. Looking at him from the outside and seeing all of his accomplishments in life you would never think that he had such negative feelings about his life. Elle's new post about talking about the hard things has helped us have a couple of good conversations but right now, 21 months out, I do not feel the same way I use to and I still have a little part of my heart reserved for the strength I may need to go my own way. That is what a reserve fund is for, right? I love this man and he hurt me deeply but I clearly see that he hurt himself far worse than he hurt me if you can even imagine that. He has to live with himself, the reality of his life choices and he also has to live with me and see what all of those choices did to me and us. Peace and loveBeach Girlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-1505362680514730282017-03-29T09:17:26.352-04:002017-03-29T09:17:26.352-04:00Anonymous, I think most of us feel that way. I ca...Anonymous, I think most of us feel that way. I can't speak for everyone else, but feel like you for sure. I too am fully participating in all the marriage recovery efforts, but I am no longer 100% committed and I don't love him as much as I used to. Some days I feel like I do really love him and others I feel like 'fake it till you make it' for the kids. IDK if I will ever get it back so I am just taking it 1 day at a time. I've also come to learn that H didn't truly love me for over a decade, and at the time although we weren't perfectly happy, I thought he did LOVE me - over a decade. Now the shoe is on the other foot - H is in love with me again and I'm not so sure about my feelings for him.browneyedgirlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-79174656655017672262017-03-29T09:07:27.635-04:002017-03-29T09:07:27.635-04:00Thank you Steam, you could have written that for s...Thank you Steam, you could have written that for so many of us. <br /><br />My H's cheating was 99% porn & cyber sex. 1.5 times he had actual sex (ED is the 0.5 - lol). H continued to email that COW intermittently for 4 years from his work account. And I too knew her (family member). The emotional attachment is what bothers me the most as well. If he never betrays me again yet I leave him for the past, it will be because 7 years after he ended the A without my knowing it ever happened (which is when I had my Dday) I asked him if he had feelings for her and I learned that for some undefined part of those 4 years H 'thought he loved her' - why? because COW's emails 'spoke his love language'. 7 years later & he thought COW was 'someone he could have had a future with'. 7 years later H couldn't find anything negative to tell me about the COW (mostly because he knew virtually nothing about her besides she was unhappily married and sexually overt). <br /><br />So, I too, after a 21 year relationship (18 year marriage) that I was 100% committed to, am prepared to walk away from someone I love because I finally have boundaries. browneyedgirlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-5043060711176823952017-03-28T18:37:24.402-04:002017-03-28T18:37:24.402-04:00Browneyedgirl, I only recently found this blog, I ...Browneyedgirl, I only recently found this blog, I haven't shared my story yet, and this is my first time posting. What you've said here in response to this post has really struck a chord with me. There are several parallels between our stories, and I find myself feeling like you, a bit ambivalent as to whether this storm can really be weathered. It would be very disruptive right now to split up, and I don't know the laws of my state as to whether as the sole earner in our household I would have to pay to support him. How would that be for insult to injury! I don't want to wreck my kids' childhood by taking them away from their dad. But while there are plenty of things I love about my husband, every time I try to conjure the warm fuzzies of "in love" i just bump nose first into the "but how could he" of the affair. Companionship and friendship-wise, we're relatively okay. Romance-wise... I'm angry, resentful, hurt and honestly disgusted (we are a little over one year out from the whole truth coming out after he lied initially for about a month after I was informed by the husband of the OW about the affair). As someone later in the thread said, I see him differently. I don't know how to change that. Like you said, I don't know how anything short of amnesia will make me forget. <br /><br />I'm so grateful to hear in your words someone who seems to have similar thoughts and feelings. Not that I'm pleased that anyone else is going through this hell, but if we both happen to be adrift at sea, it's better in the same boat than alone. Periwinklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12650541534444179504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-80663243931252311822017-03-28T12:49:05.318-04:002017-03-28T12:49:05.318-04:00Respect/consideration
These two boundaries were d...Respect/consideration <br />These two boundaries were drilled into my h post dday! For months I explained my need to know when he left work. This was a major trigger for me in those early months as his cow made sure I knew he came to her apartment just two weeks prior to dday! He told me the details, he stopped by to connect her cable, she tried to kiss him and he rejected her saying no it's over and we are not doing this anymore. He had spent two plus years trying to end his affair, she wouldn't let him and she used emotional blackmail, the threat of telling me, to keep him coming back to her. So yep, I had to have that one boundary and so far, I get a text if he's going to be late, stuck in traffic, as well as on the way. He understands how necessary for me this is and now it's just a habit! Theresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767712425596090138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-39745539293732629142017-03-28T11:07:54.888-04:002017-03-28T11:07:54.888-04:00Fragments,
Two glaring things: 1, boundaries aren&...Fragments,<br />Two glaring things: 1, boundaries aren't any good if there aren't clear consequences for violating them. 2, you have a ton of sympathy for his "work stress" but very little for your own situation. <br />I'm sorry if he's stressed but he needs to deal with that like a grown-up, not by expecting you to disrespect yourself and your boundaries. I suspect this has been a long-time dynamic in your relationship. He does what he wants, offers up excuses why you shouldn't be mad at him for doing what he wants and you feels confused because you're resentful but don't feel like you have a right to be.<br />That needs to change.<br />Get clear on what you need from him. Communicate that. And then figure out what happens when he violates that. If you need to hear from him about what time he's going to be home and then he doesn't tell you, what feels like a reasonable response to that? Frankly, it's a tough one because he's not a child (even if he's acting like an errant teenager). He's telling you, by not letting you know about his time home, that what you need doesn't matter enough to him to do it. What about locking the door when you go to bed? What about telling him to sleep on the couch? I'm having a hard time with this one because it feels like basic disrespect and you can't "make" someone respect you. Are you two in therapy? If the whole idea post-betrayal is to rebuild a relationship, it takes two people willing to put the marriage first, to really respect each other. Him being out until the wee hours doesn't seem like that to me. H'mmm...what do others think?Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-37976919722845761632017-03-28T11:03:56.540-04:002017-03-28T11:03:56.540-04:00I don't know how all of you felt but, I saw my...I don't know how all of you felt but, I saw my husband differently. After almost 19 months I still see him that way. It's not that I don't love him and try hard at our marriage and he tries so hard too. I just wish that I had the feelings for him that I did before this whole mess came into our lives. I won't leave him over this because of our daughter and the remorse that he shows me. How do you get that feeling back or is it something I am going to have to live with and change on my part. I do love him and want things to work out. He had mentioned that after it all came to head that he just wanted things back to the way they were between us. We had a really good marriage. Maybe I just over think everything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-59046331968904780792017-03-28T10:59:23.939-04:002017-03-28T10:59:23.939-04:00I love your posts too Steam. You always have such ...I love your posts too Steam. You always have such a beautiful way of sharing your experience that all of us can relate to. And you're such an incredible soul. I hate that you've been going through this but am awed at the strength with which you're handling it. Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-84001679016079576802017-03-28T10:56:40.065-04:002017-03-28T10:56:40.065-04:00Too Young,
That impulse to "punish" is p...Too Young,<br />That impulse to "punish" is powerful, isn't it? But I think it often backfires. People who cheat (not all, but many) are generally so shame-filled and self-loathing that "punishing" them is simply more of what they think they deserve. It's like that old adage: Our kids need us to love them the most when they're at their most unlovable. Our husbands aren't children, of course. And there are consequences to our actions that adults have to accept. I just don't think arbitrary punishment that stems from a desire to punish leads us where we want to go and ends up feeling hollow. You responded in the way that you did...and now that you are processing things better and handling things better, you're no doubt a healthier person capable of insisting on a healthier relationship. Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-26299686915267440682017-03-28T10:53:52.375-04:002017-03-28T10:53:52.375-04:00Call Me Kate, It took me a whole lot longer than a...Call Me Kate, It took me a whole lot longer than a year for it to stop hurting. Betrayal is excruciating. It's such a primal wound -- goes to the heart of our sense of who we are, what we trusted, our value. There are, of course, the cultural messages that women who get cheated on somehow deserved it -- they got old, they got fat, they got shrill. And the misconception that affairs are titillating and romantic. It all adds up to a whole lot of stuff to move past.<br />And, as you note, even those of us who manage to rebuild our marriages don't end up with "happily ever after", which is a bullshit story most of us have been sold since childhood. There are no perfect marriages. There are no perfect people. The best we can hope for is to wake up with someone we want beside us. And then hope for the same the next day. And the day after that. My husband just left for a week's trip and, though we've been snappy with each other lately, I feel an ache at his absence. That's worth something to me. He's my best friend. But it took us a lot of work to get here. Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-37097042544196735862017-03-28T10:48:27.054-04:002017-03-28T10:48:27.054-04:00H Selkie, Yes, the post does seem to have struck a...H Selkie, Yes, the post does seem to have struck a chord!Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-42686601339386080112017-03-28T10:48:03.058-04:002017-03-28T10:48:03.058-04:00Anonymous,
It can be so hard to listen to our own ...Anonymous,<br />It can be so hard to listen to our own small still voice when the voices around us are so loud. I'm glad you've sought help to get clear on what feels right for you. It sounds as if you've got a lifetime of conditioning of being the "good" girl to de-program yourself. I'm so glad you felt comfortable chiming in with your thoughts. Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-64218002655500266092017-03-28T10:46:31.804-04:002017-03-28T10:46:31.804-04:00Anonymous, I agree with the others that this is an...Anonymous, I agree with the others that this is an inside job. Your husband showed you that HE couldn't be trusted. That doesn't mean that NO-ONE can be trusted. But it begins with healing yourself. I'm so sorry for what he did to you. And there's plenty of evidence that betrayal can create post-trauma symptoms, which is what you describe. Where the world feels unsafe. <br />Please find a therapist who can help you with this. There are certain trauma therapies, such as yoga and EMDR (which seems really weird but is incredibly effective), that will work wonders.<br />Give yourself this gift. You deserve to feel better, to be restored to your "natural state". What's more, you don't want your son to feel part of a population of men who can't be trusted. <br />I hope you'll do this for yourself. And I hope you'll let us know how you're doing. Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-60766977427501167632017-03-28T10:43:17.332-04:002017-03-28T10:43:17.332-04:00Wow, Anonymous. You are clearly an incredibly comp...Wow, Anonymous. You are clearly an incredibly compassionate open-hearted person. Your husband is lucky in so many ways. Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-9383037785810204392017-03-28T10:42:10.884-04:002017-03-28T10:42:10.884-04:00FLAG,
My mom said something to me early on that re...FLAG,<br />My mom said something to me early on that really helped me with this. Like you, I thought I'd married someone "safe" after a series of pretty crappy relationships. I was devastated that I'd been so wrong. "How could he have done this?" I wailed to my mom. "He was supposed to love me." She responded with this: "Perhaps he loved you the best he could. And now that he's learning better, he can love you better."<br />It stopped me cold because I think she was exactly right. My husband didn't cheat to hurt me. He cheated because he was a hurt person. He was as baffled by what he was doing as I was. Only when he was able to heal himself was he able to love me in a healthy way. Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-63692473933193467482017-03-28T10:39:32.259-04:002017-03-28T10:39:32.259-04:00Those "what-ifs" are paralyzing, KatieP....Those "what-ifs" are paralyzing, KatieP. Thing is, none of us knows what the future has in store. But because our worst-case scenario has played out, it looms large as a "what if it happens again." And that's where our "next right step" philosophy fits in. None of us can predict what's going to happen but we can offer an educated guess about what our NEXT step should be. Not the one after that, or the one after that. The next one. That might be an appointment with a divorce lawyer. It might be a visit to a yoga studio. It might be applying for a new job in anticipation of making enough money to leave. Or it might be healing ourselves the best we can while we give our partners the chance to become better partners to us. There is no shame is second chances when we're respecting ourselves. This isn't about respecting ourselves retroactively. We can't fault ourselves for not knowing what we didn't know. What we can do is insist upon respect now. Insist upon honesty and transparency. We can implement clear boundaries. That's self-respect. That's courage. That's strength. <br />WE all fall down that rabbit hole now and again -- the what ifs take over. But be aware of it. And realize that it's fear speaking. You will get through this. You know what you need to stay in this marriage. Have something of an Exit Plan ready in case it does happen again so that you don't have to think -- you'll simply follow through with your plan to leave or kick him out or whatever it is. <br />It takes practice, KatieP. Be gentle with yourself. Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470499558973726796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-52933066379826201152017-03-28T05:11:42.955-04:002017-03-28T05:11:42.955-04:00Thanks Hopeful and Steam for your responses. In th...Thanks Hopeful and Steam for your responses. In this particular case I was happy enough that I knew what he was doing and who he was with, it was just that he had violated our agreement to inform, then because he has this huge work stress and has admitted that a trigger incident and the other things I mentioned above really have not been handled properly. I said that it looked like he can't handle stuff right now but that that also meant I couldn't be relaxed in the relationship. That I would step back to let him deal with this work crisis but that the rebuilding of the relationship will have to be put first and major reparation work done to compensate as soon as this work thing is over. We had a good in depth talk last night but I don't want to be like a parent (good analogy about the teenager Hopeful) and having to pull him up on this stuff but I will insist that some proper thoughtful work is put in as soon as possible. I agree Steam that it is important to make them stop and think and be thoughtful and aware, no excuses!Fragments of Hopenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-21970014834085741062017-03-28T02:37:11.022-04:002017-03-28T02:37:11.022-04:00Steam, honestly, I always look for your posts, eve...Steam, honestly, I always look for your posts, every single day. My husband had a brief affair when our oldest son was an infant. He developed and refined his other bad habit/addiction to strip clubs and porn over the years until 2008 when he paid for sex once or twice a year until he confessed to me in June 2015. Although some people think prostitutes are "better" and EA, this just disgusts and disappoints me. Intellectually I think I "get" his addiction given that I now know the truth about his early life and history. What has helped you deal with your husband's transactional sex? Mine always says, "it is and was disgusting, I hated myself and wanted to die, it was repulsive, etc" It repulses me too. We are 66, married for 37 years and when I find and dive down the rabbit hole I think, "Wow, when I get depressed, I cry and when you get depressed you pay a young girl for sex?" WTF? I'm always grappling with ways to just move one. I know I need to do this. I know but knowing and doing are difficult at times. He knows that he only gets this one chance. He is doing great as far as I can tell and we do great as long as I don't get a trigger. Elle's new post was written for me but I would love your feedback as the spouse of a whore hound on how you move through and navigate your life. I agree that any other man I might ever consider dating could hurt me like this and I stay for a lot of reasons including our adult kids and grandkids who adore my husband. They believe he walks on water and would be crushed if they knew.<br /> Beach Girlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7026450255174007652.post-55219520125483572732017-03-27T17:40:57.707-04:002017-03-27T17:40:57.707-04:00Fragments. I do not think you are nitpicking at al...Fragments. I do not think you are nitpicking at all. It is a huge deal when any boundary is violated. I understand how you feel. We had major similar issues since my husband was used to going out and honestly his "deserving" the guy time or going out time because of his work stress and everything he provided us really allowed for this affair and the mentality that led to the affairs in my mind. Both his affairs were sporadic so no way I would have figured it out and none of his friends even know.<br /><br />One thing we did was we have broken down the boundaries to smaller pieces so there are multiple markers or milestones. My husband has to discuss with me before he goes out if he can, he has to tell me where, with who, when he is going. If any plans change related to any of that he needs to tell me immediately. We discuss how much he will drink at all and what time he plans to be home. If they change locations I need to be told. <br /><br />He did slip up at first a couple times not letting me know they had switched spots. We did work through this. Honestly he had operated a certain way for 25 years we have been together and now it was changing. I was sensitive to that but I was also demanding that I was not willing to stay in a marriage where he could not follow basic rules and requests. I honestly told him our preteens can follow these expectations and if they don't they would have consequences. My therapist says all of this is legitimate since he gave up this trusting freedom the day he decided to cheat on me and our marriage. At first I felt like his mom or a parent but in the end if he is to leave the house without me and especially be in social situations with friends (where these ow met him) then I need to feel safe. I explained this to him over and over until he got it. At first he was defensive but pretty quickly after I think two violations and me being so upset and furious he understood. In his mind he said he knew he was doing nothing wrong. Well he grew to understand that that was fine but it was more about how I feel and making me feel safe in our marriage. He does not know about the find my phone app so I will admit I do use that. I check up on him when he goes out to see if he is where he says he is. So far except the two times early on within the first 6 months after dday he has been where he says. He is clueless with technology so I do utilize that. <br /><br />So I don't have an answer as to consequence. We had some major heart to heart discussions and he finally did understand it. I think also explaining how when he acts this way coming home in a taxi late after no communication how that can make you feel after what he did. I tried to help him understand how deep the pain was and how easily it can be triggered. In the end it is up to him to prove to you he can be trusted. I know it helped my husband to look at everything from my side. He said following the precise boundaries has made it easier for him and also he enjoys his time with friends more. They have really all become habits now for him which is nice.Hopeful 30noreply@blogger.com