Amen! This is so true. So many times in my life when I have been struggling I have thought of this. I remember so clearly the day we buried our babies we were driving home and stopped to try to eat something. Neither of us were hungry but we tried anyway because we knew we should. I remember so clearly us looking around that restaurant and saying to each other - all these people have no idea what we have just done today. And we have no idea what battles they are facing. We all carry hard times, hurts, struggles - some we show, some we do not. We are all strong. We can do this ladies! (Had a night of dreams last night - first time in weeks - about what husband is doing at work with OW...and they were just talking in my dreams, but that is scary enough...And I think it is a sign of the hard work I am trying to do on myself. Reminding myself today I am strong!!! Inside and Out!)
Hugs ladies...hope you all find some peace and love for yourself today!
"we all carry hard times..." Jules, you are amazing. It is so true. I learned here that I shouldn't compare my inner life to others' outer life or facade. When my kids comment on someone being rude or not friendly, I generally respond with, "they may just be having a tough day. you never know what people are going through." I try to remember that all the time myself. Because fact is, everyone I know is going through something.
I remember long ago when I was a young adult and people would look at someone and be jealous and say how they wish they had what the other person had. I always thought and would say you have no idea what their life is really like. I feel this is more true than ever now with social media being so present in our lives. Now more than ever I feel this especially after going through these past 2 1/2 years.
Jules, I am so sorry you had to bury your babies. I can't imagine what that was like. Your strength is amazing. We had something similar happen after I had a miscarriage and we were eating in this restaurant and not really talking. Some one next to us made a nasty comment about us not understanding why we were so quiet. I think that strength comes in different forms and we all have different battles within us. Some being depression and anxiety and how we deal with that daily. Dealing with the OW is not easy either. I had dreams too about them together but, they were laughing at me just like the people we worked with all laughing at the pain I was in and then giving her sympathy cards when my husband chose his family over her. I still have issues with other women now especially at work where it is all women and a small group of women at that. But I go into work and do the best I can every day and try not to let the past interfere with what I can do in the future. And I also know now after being on this site that these women from my past, that tried to destroy my marriage are the ones that should be pitied. What kind of friends are they to each other. I know that they are not what I want as friends. Just like some of these women I work with now that are manipulative, I find it easier to stay away from them. Being strong and struggling go hand in hand sometimes. Working on who I am is what I concentrate on now so that I can find peace in a situation that was so crazy.
My mum passed away this morning in her sleep, heartbroken isn't the word my father passed away 2 months after d day 1 and now I've lost my mum too. I'm not sure this has even hit me yet. I'm just stuck on what more to say . Wish I could speak to her right now .. xxx
Sam A, I am so very sorry for your loss. I don't know what to say beyond that. My dad passed away this last March - he had been in poor health for some time and passed in his sleep. So I guess what I can say is "me too - I know how you feel." I am praying for you and sending a virtual hug.
Sam A.... I am so sorry. There's nothing I can do or say to make this better. I'm sending all my love across the world to you wherever you are and holding you in my heart today. I'm actually crying. I want to scream at the universe for you and all of us "enough already!". Don't grieve alone Sam A. Be with people who can hold space for your sorrow. Hugs and tears...
Sam A I just saw this and I'm so heartbroken for you! I'm so so sorry! I spent this morning taking my mother to her dr appointment and each time I do, I wonder if she has the strength to live the next three months for me to bring her back! It's hard watching your mother slowly drifting off and I just can't imagine what it feels like when it happens! I've lost many loved ones in my past but as I've been told, you only have one mother! Sending you hugs and love! I'm so sorry for your loss!
Thank you ladies, I've taken so much comfort from reading your heart warming messages, your right Theresa you do only have one mom and please for those who still have their mums please cherish your time together there is no turning the clocks back when they've gone. Make sure you have lots of recent pictures, video and voice recordings anything that you can keep should the inevitable happen. This is a testing time for me, right now I'm trying to keep it together when I can And cry when I need too, lots of stuff swirling around in my head that I can't fathom out. Knowing I have you guys holding me up gives me a sense of security and I thank all you lovely ladies for being there in my darkest hour. I'm just riding the waves as and when they hit that is all I can do. I'll keep you posted on my healing in the coming days.. love you all xxx
I believe that if he hadn't told me about everything it would have never ended. He ended the texting and was firm with her. She continued to text him. I believe that unless we stood against her together he may have fallen back into it.
She acted like this was her right. She stated that "I have rights too" . Based in what?????.
She wanted him to stop driving me and the kids to practice and suggested we use uber. ???? She told him your spending way too much time with your family.
How dare she suggest how I take my kids to practice. Is she a family member? Who does she think she is?.
She is crazy and I'm sure it would have went on forever.
She continues to work with him and I'm terrified. When school starts and I get busy with the kids I won't have enough time to monitor everything. I'm do scared. It's giving me panic. She will continue working there for another year and I don't know how to handle that. Every work email, every phone call.
Sometimes I feel that separating myself emotionally from my h will protect me till she leaves work. But by then I would probably be too far away emotionally from h that there will be no turning back.
Emma - I can relate to so much of your feelings...those terrifying fears that because they work together something will happen. My husband still works with OW. Every day I feel we are making such great strides in our healing - both of us, in different ways, in together ways - but I do always have a little voice in the back of my head that wonders "what am I missing...what isn't he saying." But my latest revelation is to really focus on myself. I cannot control his actions - there isn't one thing that I can say or do that will guarantee his choices. Those are on him. I can only control me. My hope is that as I continue to heal myself, my broken heart, the other broken pieces of me - that I will begin to trust myself, my intuition...and that in time my husband will begin to trust in me more, too.
Hang in there...try not to separate too much emotionally. Believe me - I've thought and tried that too. Focus on you...my hope is the rest will fall into place for all of us!
Sam A - I am so very sorry for your loss. May the memories give you comfort and know that so many of us are holding you in our thoughts and prayers during this difficult time. Hugs to you.
I want thank you for your blog. It's been my oasis in the shit storm. Your wisdom has been my foundation on which I rebuilt, and am still building, the strong and resillient woman I am today. I'm sorry we met because of a shared pain, but thanks to you and the other women, I am so much better than I was a year ago. 5 years ago. Hell...I'm the best I've been in my entire 55 years on this planet. One of the many, and I mean many, good things to came from the shit storm is you and I wanted to let you know that you are loved, admired and have a very special place in my heart. Thank you Elle. I love you...Michelle from very sunny California
Michelle, you just rock. I feel your strength. It is uplifting and encouraging. Thank you for being along with us for this journey. It kind of sucks but meeting all these strong women is awesome. Elle has saved me on many a day.
Beach Girl. Thank you so much for your kind words. They mean so much to me. I just had to send Elle a note to let her know how I feel about her and all of you Warrior Goddesses. You have all been instrumental in my desire for growth and healing. I am truly grateful and in awe of all of you. Thank you one and all...♥
Beach Girl, excellent article. I am so thankful you shared this. Grief has no time limit and I am just now at 1 1/2 years out been able to convince my h that my healing is on my time. Not his time, MY time.
Beach girl thank you for the link I've read it and sent it to my family members.. it's comforting and validates how I'm feeling. Our journey is very personal.. I'm just so grateful for you lovely women .. thank you xx
I think of how strong that I needed to be and it amazes me. I remember just days after dday going place to place and thinking "y'all have no idea about the storm I'm walking through. I think of this daily when I approach people. You just don't know what others are dealing with. Nobody talks about Infidelity, therefore you would never know who has been impacted by this. People talk about it in passing or it is gossip. I have no room in my life for this type of gossip and usually I shut people down when they begin to talk about what they think is going on in anothers marriage and what is being said. Many times they are very close to me, and deep inside I want to say....I've lived it and you had no clue, but I know now it's just a thing you want to talk about, rather than get someone through. I remember Ann saying she purchased a gift card to be used on running shoes --her therapist was to hand to another BW. What a wonderful gift we have here to relate and it's just nice to know all of you are gonna make it because we needed to step up and be stronger than ever. We've all walked in these shoes.
In many ways this is a form of grief that people just don't get. I find many of my friends that have lost a husband, lost a child or have endured cancer and they say that people don't know what to say and tend to disappear. In the face of it all, people are very supportive in the early days (just after the funeral, there to cheer them on when they get the NED No Evidence of Disease sign), etc and then suddenly the support system goes poof! Grief has no timeline for sure and for that I now know that on any given day someone is struggling with their ongoing grief, as do all of us. Sometimes pain teaches us to be kinder to others.
Heartfelt, I totally agree. Giving that gift card was something I did to mark my 1 year since Dday. It filled me with purpose and something else to focus on. A way to make myself a force for good. Since I have so much experience grieving loss now (That's what this is for me. It's a profound loss), I have been able to be present with my friends who are struggling. A close friend had a miscarriage and I got a very sweet note from her yesterday thanking me for continuing to ask about how she's doing months later. For showing her so much compassion and sticking in there with her through her tough time. I think reaching out to others who are in pain is one way I can maintain a sense of self outside of my marriage and the sting of betrayal. I have to make this all MEAN something. I need to somehow be better off after climbing this mountain. I need it to belong to ME. My new connection to others and my new abilities to sit with others who are in pain and show compassion to them is something that can never be taken away from me no matter what my H choses to do in the future. I see that exact same superpower in all of us here. They way I see us supporting without judgement. The way we build each other up and cheer each other on. The pain is so great, but it's good to remember this beauty that's happening right along side it. You might as well notice it and celebrate it. Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying all this was "worth it". Certainly not. But there is not reason to leave beauty and joy on the table just because you are in pain I figure. Reaching out to others and showing compassion for them makes me feel like the world is an OK place to be afterall (there was I time I wasn't sure it was).
Hi ladies - I am sending hopeful prayers for all of us to have a good weekend...with our husband's, our families, with ourselves - whatever we are doing. I am a work in progress...after my rough week with my husband a while back and then some time last week working on myself and talking to the counselor, and really hearing how sad my husband is for my pain and knowing he caused it, I have worked hard this week to deal with the negatives thoughts/feelings when they have crept in. I can't say they have popped up less, but when they have come up, I have had some success working through them and not feeling the hurt physical effects.
But anyway - I wanted to share a link to an article I read just over a week ago that has really resonated with me and helped me. When I first read the title about 6 things that keep us from healing, I thought "I bet one or two of them will be true of me." As I read it - I realized I was feeling or guilty of all 6!! And it is normal - but I realized how much I was holding myself back. It's not a magic solution, but it has allowed me to slow down, repeat the affirmation to myself (sometimes multiple times a day) and it has helped pull me back from dwelling on the past, or worrying too much about a negative future. I hope that each of you can pull something helpful from it.
Thinking of you all...taking a deep breath and reminding myself I am strong even if I don't always feel like it. One moment at a time...we can do this ladies! (Hugs)
Today I accidently broke a window. I smashed my hand into it. I'm not a violent person. In fact I don't like violent movies.
But we were talking and he said something like "I'm not that big of a lier" and I just smashed the window. :(
I'm almost 2 months out. And he's been transparent since dday . But hearing him say that he's not that big of a list just did something to me. I didn't mean to smash the window. I didn't mean it at all. I hate that. I hate expressing anger like that. It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated.
Now he's not talking and he feels that all he's doing is for nothing. I didn't apologise for the window. I know I was wrong to do that. He just sent me a message that he'll fix it in the morning and that it's all his fault anyway.
I just snapped when I heard him say those words even though we were talking calmly. I seem to be moving away from him. I hate that he lied for so long. I'm having a hard time getting past it specially since they work together.
Emma - I am thinking of you, so much. I am 18 months out from Dday and I still struggle. Give yourself time, be kind to yourself. There is so much running through your heart and mind right now and it takes time, so much time, to get through it. My husband still works with the ex-OW, too. Unfortunately closer than I would like just because of their roles. My husband has been about 99% transparent, but really 100% - I just tend to doubt and it keeps me stuck. I am working hard right now to heal ME - my heart, my mind, my body, my self - and hopefully in time it will help heal the hurts in our marriage still. I started to realize that while I had not stepped outside of the marriage, I had created an unsafe emotional space for my husband with me. It was very, very hard to admit that, but I know in my heart it is 100% true. Does it excuse what he did? Absolutely not. But it gives me some empathy towards him, when I am honest about what our marriage was. Right now I am working on me, and I pray that if I can keep working on healing myself and if I can remain PATIENT, in time I will start to see him really open up to me in new ways more. It has only been about 2 weeks since I had a big "ah-ha" moment after a moment of weakness, and so it's still early, but last week I even felt a few glimmers of hope, of more sharing about work, when my husband came home.
Emma - remember to take care of you, and remember you are not alone. Keep breathing...one moment at a time! (Hugs)
Emma, I wanted to let you know that there are others out here who have acted out of anger. It's not something I'm proud of but I had my moments. I actually hit my husband. Twice. I threw phones. I punched a heavy bag until my knuckles were bruised and almost bleeding (and that was with gloves on). I was reacting to pain that was like nothing I had ever experienced. And my husband also said things early on that made me furious and made me want to hit him again. My therapist recommended doing something physical to deal with my anger. She suggested throwing clay at a piece of wood, breaking plates, something physical. For me, the heavy bag worked. I ran on the treadmill every day and then went into the garage and beat the crap out of that bag. I pictured the OW's face on it and punched away. I said all the things to that bag that I wanted to say to her. It was the outlet for all my anger and I needed it because keeping it inside was unhealthy. I also knew that hitting my husband wasn't okay and I didn't want to do it again. If you find yourself dealing with a lot of anger, it might help to find a way to release it. And I'm sorry that your husband still works with her. That is very hard. Do you all have conversations about boundaries for his interaction with her? My husband continued to work with the OW for several months after the full truth came out and we had to put boundaries in place so I felt safe. Hugs, Emma! ❤️
Emma, I think your reaction was normal - you didn't hurt H or the OW or yourself for that matter. You broke an inanimate object. And you knew right away that you didn't like it and don't want to do it again. Forgive yourself.
Emma, In the weeks following D-Day, I tossed a television off a table and smashed a $2,000 watch of my husband's (a gift from a group of his friends). The TV is gone. The watch is still broken. None of it compares to the damage he did to me. And the same goes for you. You lost your temper. That's it. I hope you're okay but this is about you making clear to yourself and to him that you have a red line. And he crossed it. That you're just holding it together and he'd better damn well walk softly and think before he speaks. You are responsible for your actions and, like others above, I urge you to find ways to release it. Anger is usually a mask for hurt and fear and when we really address that, often the anger dissipates. But sometimes we just need to scream. To hit pillows. To smash rocks on the ground. To run and run and run.
Me too, around the 2 month mark, I put my hand through the the glass of a French door and had to get six stitches. I felt so aweful and ashamed that I couldn't "handle" my anger. Turns out I was trying way to hard to keep it together and be cooperative with my H and not attack him. Turns out I really had a lot of anger that I needed to get out and also recognize the pain and fear under neath the anger. Also it my case my H was really taking advantage of my "keeping it together" Which was making more and more angry.
There is a lot of good advice given about doing something physical to get anger out of your body. Also journaling was good for me. Also remember that although 2 months feels like forever, it very early days. Be gentle with yourself, listen to your own needs and take care.
Sitting outside crying. He still works with the coworker. Too feel that I'm important asked him to misspell her name in work emails. Stupid right. Too me it's something. But stupid right.
I told him you didn't do what i asked two weeks ago. He went crazy. Started yelling that he hates everything.
I know I was second to work . I never put my foot down all these years and explained to him that family comes first. He gets behind that computer and forgets about us. I told him to spend the morning of the weekends with us and then work at evenings. I asked that in the beginning of my marriage but I failed and just gave in.
I accepted being second. And now after the affair I just asked that he misspells her name. This was too much for him..
We are only 2 months out. Did he forget that I was crying yesterday and the day before and the day before..... Where do I stand with him.
I told him to fix our marriage and for me to stay i want simple things... Don't contact her unless it's work related. Spell her name wrong. Tell me if she contacts you. Remove her from fb Aren't these easy and simple requests?
I didn't ask for any financial reassurance (Which he can afford). I'm still waiting for him to get rid of the affair car.
Does he not see what the affair did to me. I don't understand.
I am so sorry. I think what you are feeling is so normal. Still at 2 1/2 years past dday there are days and moments that I feel so much pain. And even though much of our issues related to the affairs have been dealt with the pain still is there. Also we have moved on to working on our marriage. My expectations are higher than ever before too.
One thing that has happened is both in the past and still today my husband deflects, becomes defensive all to avoid dealing with facing the pain he has caused me, himself and our marriage. I never expected this. But it took probably a year past dday before this came out. And he said he hated himself so much until about 2 years past dday.
Is there any way he can consider finding a new job even if it might take a while. Sometimes for me taking action helps me feel better. Also we had a lot of hard conversations where he did have to hear how I felt. I wrote daily in a journal. We would set one time a week to talk about the affairs. I would look over my journal and see what continued to bother me. When we would talk it helped me be more effective and less emotional. In the end it helped me feel better. And that is what I realized no matter what he did I needed to find out what would help me feel better. Find what you need. But I also had to find the best way to break through to him. At one point it was a very direct letter demanding transparency.
Emma, I'm so sorry for how you're feeling right now. Two months is very early. I don't think anything you've asked for is unreasonable. Asking him to misspell her name in e-mails isn't stupid... I actually think it's a great, especially if it would make you feel better. I don't know exactly what your situation is but it sounds as if your husband might still be in the "fog". My husband was very angry and very defensive early on. Our situations might be different. I had three d-days. D-day 1 - I found the phone records and he lied and said it was an emotional affair. I asked him to cut off contact and unfriend her on FB. It took a few weeks for the FB thing to happen. He felt bad for her because of circumstances going on I her life. Ugh. D-day 2 - She contacted him and he responded. D-day 3 - I saw an FB messenger notification from her pop up on his iPad. They were no longer friends but obviously still messaging. I confronted him and found out it had been a physical affair and that it resumed after d-day 2. I told him he had a choice to make within 24 hours... continue his affair or try to work on our marriage. After d-day 3, we started joint therapy. I believe that's when things really started to turn around. It took him realizing the magnitude of what he had done to really start working on why he had done it and what he was going to do to change. It's crazy to us betrayed that they can turn anger on us when they get found out. After all, they were the ones doing something wrong and we're the ones who are hurt. How could they not know the damage they were causing? But as much as I've read about affairs and I've tried to read perspectives from both sides... many cheaters have themselves so convinced they'll never get caught that they are shocked when they are. It's mind-boggling. I mentioned in another comment that if they still work together you might need to establish some very clear boundaries to help you feel safe. My husband was asked to tell me anytime she spoke to him, whether it was work related or not. He was asked to tell me how many times firing the day he saw her. They worked in separate areas of a small company so they had limited reason to interact. She made a habit of waking past his office as much as she could so eventually, he just kept his door closed. She was shut out both physically and symbolically. And I also asked him to text me every day when he realized she had left the office. As silly as this may sound, that was the time when they would talk every day. Having him text me didn't prevent him from being able to call her, but for some reason it made me feel better. Sending you big hugs, Emma! Take care of yourself and keep coming here to post. You will receive great support and insight.
Emma, I can feel your suffering. When we are younger we feel pain because something was done to us, as adults you feel pain because something was taken from you. I can remember clearly my pain, anger, rage for the first six months. It is excruciating. I'm so sorry this happened and you don't deserve it nor was it your choice. This is not your fault. My H did not work with the OW - he gave her a job! Different things work for different woman. I'm a task person not a managing person. It is hard but take care of yourself and do actions that make YOU feel better. Have you both been STD tested? I'm no expert but the way he said, "It's no big lie" says he is in denial about the devastation he caused. If he works with the OW he probably sees her, right? Does he tell you when he does? What is their working relationship? Different departments? Boss? Why are you waiting for him to get rid of the car? Get in the car drive it to the nearest dealer and leave it until YOU choose another car. If the car is not in your name that is ok, leave it anyway. He can get his sorry ass to the dealership. "Honey, I just wanted to make it easy on you because I know you have such hard time with being honest. I maybe reading too much into this but it sounds like he may still have contact with her based on his comments. He likes the way she makes him feel and that is an addiction that sometimes is hard to give up. Cheaters also always lie mine did for 2.5 years about the details. You can't believe him anyway although you want to. You want him to misspell the OW name as proof that you are important. Raise the bar - you are worth it. Don't let him bully you or as Steam says, blow you off. Why don't go to his work randomly and drop in? This breaks the compartmentalization because the two worlds are colliding. He has the OW in his work world and you in the home world. If he is not in just sit there until he gets back. Bring something for him a reason to be there - bring him a big candy bar that looks like a turd or one of those pacifier candy. Bring a picture of the both of you for his desk like a wedding picture. I randomly showed up everywhere to make sure he was telling the truth and yes, check up on him. He lies ok? Too bad for him oh-well. I showed up a coffee shop every morning where he goes to have coffee with his friends. Low cut blouse - you betcha. I admit it was part of the pick me game but it made me feel good for him to see the other men ogling. Brought him lunch at work. Called and asked him to take me to lunch. Getting your car fixed today? Yes, hi there, I'm checking on how much is it going to cost. Hello cheater. I'd walk into his office and look at his computer screen - watcha lookin at? Let me see. Whatever the reason this made me feel good. It took me 1.5 years to finally decide not to divorce. Just so you know, I threw away everything I thought touched him, then her, then me. I got rid of it all. The worst thing in your life already happened - what can else can happen that is just as worse - if you have to sit in his office, so what if his company doesn't like it. Let them tell you that not him. Ask to see a company policy. He looses all control of you, what you do or what you say. You didn't cheat. Remember he needs to work for a second chance - it doesn't come free.
He won't see what the affair has done to you for awhile and he won't admit it for awhile if he does. He doesn't want to think of himself as a cheater.
Emma, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I, too, accepted being second to work - for far to many years. He always put work before me and the kids. I'm 20 months out and still having to do work on myself so don't be hard on yourself. You are not asking too much from him. Setting boundaries is a good thing. It's going to take both of you to fix your marriage. It is so hard and it wasn't something I wanted to have to do, I wanted my h to do it too. But unfortunately, it takes both. My h and I went to counseling one week after dday (the day after Christmas...). It was really eye opening to say the least. Our counselor insisted on no contact, which my h broke 2 months after dday (and I in turn broke his iPad - cost $$ to replace...) Not proud of that moment. So yes, it isn't too much to remove her from FB. If he can't change jobs, then no contact except for work situations.
I'm rambling and others can offer better advice but want you to know that you're only 2 mos. out from dday. Be gentle with yourself.
Emma, Everything you are asking for is perfectly reasonable. So please know that. You are asking to be respected within this marriage. You are asking him to show up and be present in your family. But you are asking for these things from a place of hurt and, to some degree, desperation. I suspect a lot of your anger is at yourself for having abandoned yourself earlier in the marriage. So here's what I'd like you to work at. Stop giving away your power. He cheated on you and he wants you to give him a second chance. Okay. You're willing to entertain that notion but here's what you want in return. And then figure out exactly what that is. You want him to prioritize family over work, which means X, Y and Z. And, oh my god, removing her from social media is a no-brainer. It sounds cold but it's not. It just that you're no longer prioritizing peace within the family over your own wants/needs/self-respect. When you've become accustomed to putting your own needs aside, it can feel horribly uncomfortable to start paying attention to them and asking others to. But sit with that discomfort. Get used to it and pay attention to your own needs anyway. A lot of us need to change within the wake of infidelity. But that's not a bad thing. Too many of us have spent a lifetime accommodating others at our own expense. We've assumed that the payoff is loyalty or appreciation or love. But, as infidelity shows us, we often assumed wrong. We weren't rewarded with loyalty. We were blindsided by infidelity. And we're furious BECAUSE LOOK AT WHAT WE DID FOR EVERYONE ELSE, ESPECIALLY OUR HUSBANDS. Ahem. So, Emma, it's time to tap into your inner nasty woman. The one who says, 'no way, not any more'. The one who knows that she's worth fighting for. The one who knows that, no matter how much it hurts, she'll be fine if her husband refuses to start respecting her boundaries. You can do this, Emma. So so many of us on this site have come face to face with how being nice and accommodating and a loyal wife was, in fact, a dereliction of our duty to take care of ourselves.
Emma I am really sorry that you are going through this. You really need to talk to someone. Either a professional counselor or these women at FREE PEER COUNSELLORS Infidelity Counselling Network. These women are wonderful and supportive They have all gone through what we have. I used them and it only cost me $25 but, that cost may have changed. You can talk to them when ever you need to. They are so supportive. I think that they could help you.
The free peer counselling service (you can find a link in the right side margin of this site) is fantastic and has helped so many people. BUT NOW THEY NEED OUR HELP. THEY ARE DESPERATELY SEEKING AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTION TO HELM THE ORGANIZATION. IT'S A VERY PART-TIME, VOLUNTEER POSITION (THERE'S A SMALL HONORARIUM) BUT WITHOUT SOMEONE STEPPING IN, THEY WILL HAVE TO CLOSE. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN BEING CONSIDERED, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
Thank you all for your support and love. I had no one to talk to yesterday except you and the replies you gave me reminds me that I'm not alone. And that I'm not crazy. God bless you all .
This site has been so powerful. When I am down hearing and reading "me too". The support is amazing. It really is a great place. This is such a hard and challenging time but we are all here.
If I can I'd like to throw in a little 2 cents regarding the OWs. It oh so tempting to focus all your anger and hurt squarely on them, the disrupters. When the OW's husband briefed me on what had been happening, his anger and bitter hatred was focused all on my husband. I understand that, I do, because it's easier to put it there. I told him that I couldn't put all my anger and blame on his wife. She made no vows to me, she was not my partner, I never expected or relied on her to have my back. She did not betray me. She did a hateful, ugly thing, for sure. But she did not betray me. My husband did that. And I don't care if she did a naked lap dance on top of him and begged him, HE should have walked away. He didn't. He broke his vow to me and he betrayed me. And he is the one who is solely responsible.
She is also a friend of his whole group of childhood friends. We're all friends, and friended on FB. Sometimes I want to tell them all what happened, and one day I will. But after DDay, I would think how badly I wanted them all to hate her for what she did, and for being so awful. But then I realized then, that I would have to ask them all to hate my husband too, for he did exactly the same thing to her husband that she did to me. (A little worse actually, b/c they actually had sex at their house-twice-two different houses, including where they live now). I would like his friends to be pissed at them both and scold them both for being fucking idiots, but I guess I don't really want them to hate her, because them they would have to hate him.
I think she is pathetic in a pitiable way. Seriously, how bad do you have to feel about yourself to be okay with wrecking two families? So, I pity her. I'm not going to tear her down and wish horrible things on her. I'm going to just see her for what she is, a desperate and insecure person, to be pitied. I cannot build myself up by trampling on her.
Her husband said I was more generous than he could be toward my husband. I don't think I'm being generous, I just don't think she is worth my energy. I mean, really, she's obviously a mess already.
I absolutely am not judging anyone who lets the hate flow freely toward the OWs. I get it! But I think I'm echoing Elle by saying, be careful how much energy you give up to them in hateful, vengeful thoughts. You might do more harm to yourself than to them.
Periwinkle, I for the most part, have always felt exactly the same way you do and you articulated it well. My husband had a brief fling when our oldest was a baby back in the early 1980's and spent the last ten years paying for hookers. I don't blame anyone but him for not keeping his pants on. I've been successful at warding off admirers over the years and expected him to do the same. I hate that women sell their bodies and sexual services but I only blame my husband for being the immature asshole he was for making the decision to wreck havoc on our lives. This is his shit and does not reflect on me. He did not ask my permission, approval or feedback before hand so whatever happens is on him.
Periwinkle, yes - you have articulated it perfectly!! I remember someone once on here once wrote that she couldn't see how to fully forgive the husband without forgiving the OW and that her anger towards the OW was fueled so much because she couldn't bring herself to feel that hatred against him. The example you used about telling your friends would require them to hate him too, it's really powerful. You are right - pitying them really is the best revenge.
Periwinkle. I too was betrayed by a friend and I struggle with forgiving her when she did the same shit my husband did. Only 2 people know she was the other woman. One told her she was an ass for doing it. Needless to say, I have little to no contact with the group of friends that she is part off and it makes me sad and angry. Being the better person can be so ungratifying at times, and I hope some day I can forgive her as I have my husband. Right now I just pity her sorry ass and hope I never see her again. It burns me up though, that I have chosen to give up a large group of friends cause of their shitty choices. it really chaps my hide.
Amen! This is so true. So many times in my life when I have been struggling I have thought of this. I remember so clearly the day we buried our babies we were driving home and stopped to try to eat something. Neither of us were hungry but we tried anyway because we knew we should. I remember so clearly us looking around that restaurant and saying to each other - all these people have no idea what we have just done today. And we have no idea what battles they are facing. We all carry hard times, hurts, struggles - some we show, some we do not. We are all strong. We can do this ladies! (Had a night of dreams last night - first time in weeks - about what husband is doing at work with OW...and they were just talking in my dreams, but that is scary enough...And I think it is a sign of the hard work I am trying to do on myself. Reminding myself today I am strong!!! Inside and Out!)
ReplyDeleteHugs ladies...hope you all find some peace and love for yourself today!
"we all carry hard times..." Jules, you are amazing. It is so true. I learned here that I shouldn't compare my inner life to others' outer life or facade. When my kids comment on someone being rude or not friendly, I generally respond with, "they may just be having a tough day. you never know what people are going through." I try to remember that all the time myself. Because fact is, everyone I know is going through something.
ReplyDeleteI remember long ago when I was a young adult and people would look at someone and be jealous and say how they wish they had what the other person had. I always thought and would say you have no idea what their life is really like. I feel this is more true than ever now with social media being so present in our lives. Now more than ever I feel this especially after going through these past 2 1/2 years.
ReplyDeleteJules, I am so sorry you had to bury your babies. I can't imagine what that was like. Your strength is amazing. We had something similar happen after I had a miscarriage and we were eating in this restaurant and not really talking. Some one next to us made a nasty comment about us not understanding why we were so quiet. I think that strength comes in different forms and we all have different battles within us. Some being depression and anxiety and how we deal with that daily. Dealing with the OW is not easy either. I had dreams too about them together but, they were laughing at me just like the people we worked with all laughing at the pain I was in and then giving her sympathy cards when my husband chose his family over her. I still have issues with other women now especially at work where it is all women and a small group of women at that. But I go into work and do the best I can every day and try not to let the past interfere with what I can do in the future. And I also know now after being on this site that these women from my past, that tried to destroy my marriage are the ones that should be pitied. What kind of friends are they to each other. I know that they are not what I want as friends. Just like some of these women I work with now that are manipulative, I find it easier to stay away from them. Being strong and struggling go hand in hand sometimes. Working on who I am is what I concentrate on now so that I can find peace in a situation that was so crazy.
ReplyDeleteMy mum passed away this morning in her sleep, heartbroken isn't the word my father passed away 2 months after d day 1 and now I've lost my mum too. I'm not sure this has even hit me yet. I'm just stuck on what more to say . Wish I could speak to her right now .. xxx
ReplyDeleteSam A - I am so very sorry to hear of your mum. My thoughts and heart is with you today. Holding you close. (Hugs)
DeleteSam A, I am so terribly sorry for your loss. Keeping you in my thoughts.
DeleteSam A, I am so very sorry for your loss. I don't know what to say beyond that. My dad passed away this last March - he had been in poor health for some time and passed in his sleep. So I guess what I can say is "me too - I know how you feel." I am praying for you and sending a virtual hug.
DeleteSam A
DeleteI'm so sorry for you. You are in my thoughts, especially during this very sad time with the loss of your mum.
big hugs to you Sam
Gabby xoooooo
I'm praying for you . We are all here for you today and everyday. I will keep your mom in my prayers too.
DeleteSam A.... I am so sorry. There's nothing I can do or say to make this better. I'm sending all my love across the world to you wherever you are and holding you in my heart today. I'm actually crying. I want to scream at the universe for you and all of us "enough already!". Don't grieve alone Sam A. Be with people who can hold space for your sorrow. Hugs and tears...
DeleteSam A, please accept my condolences. My mom died in 1990, the year my youngest son was born. I still miss her.
DeleteSam A
DeleteI just saw this and I'm so heartbroken for you! I'm so so sorry! I spent this morning taking my mother to her dr appointment and each time I do, I wonder if she has the strength to live the next three months for me to bring her back! It's hard watching your mother slowly drifting off and I just can't imagine what it feels like when it happens! I've lost many loved ones in my past but as I've been told, you only have one mother! Sending you hugs and love! I'm so sorry for your loss!
Thank you ladies, I've taken so much comfort from reading your heart warming messages, your right Theresa you do only have one mom and please for those who still have their mums please cherish your time together there is no turning the clocks back when they've gone. Make sure you have lots of recent pictures, video and voice recordings anything that you can keep should the inevitable happen. This is a testing time for me, right now I'm trying to keep it together when I can
DeleteAnd cry when I need too, lots of stuff swirling around in my head that I can't fathom out. Knowing I have you guys holding me up gives me a sense of security and I thank all you lovely ladies for being there in my darkest hour. I'm just riding the waves as and when they hit that is all I can do. I'll keep you posted on my healing in the coming days.. love you all xxx
Sam A, so sorry to hear this. How hard this must be. Sending you a virtual hug and praying that you will be able to use all of us as a support system.
DeleteI am so very sorry about your Mom. Prayers
DeleteSam A, I am so sorry for your loss, especially at this time. We will be here to listen and support when you need us.
DeleteSam A. I'm so deeply sorry for your loss. Sending you comforting hugs and love...♥
DeleteI believe that if he hadn't told me about everything it would have never ended. He ended the texting and was firm with her. She continued to text him. I believe that unless we stood against her together he may have fallen back into it.
ReplyDeleteShe acted like this was her right. She stated that "I have rights too" . Based in what?????.
She wanted him to stop driving me and the kids to practice and suggested we use uber. ???? She told him your spending way too much time with your family.
How dare she suggest how I take my kids to practice. Is she a family member? Who does she think she is?.
She is crazy and I'm sure it would have went on forever.
She continues to work with him and I'm terrified. When school starts and I get busy with the kids I won't have enough time to monitor everything. I'm do scared. It's giving me panic. She will continue working there for another year and I don't know how to handle that. Every work email, every phone call.
Sometimes I feel that separating myself emotionally from my h will protect me till she leaves work. But by then I would probably be too far away emotionally from h that there will be no turning back.
I don't know what to do.
Emma - I can relate to so much of your feelings...those terrifying fears that because they work together something will happen. My husband still works with OW. Every day I feel we are making such great strides in our healing - both of us, in different ways, in together ways - but I do always have a little voice in the back of my head that wonders "what am I missing...what isn't he saying." But my latest revelation is to really focus on myself. I cannot control his actions - there isn't one thing that I can say or do that will guarantee his choices. Those are on him. I can only control me. My hope is that as I continue to heal myself, my broken heart, the other broken pieces of me - that I will begin to trust myself, my intuition...and that in time my husband will begin to trust in me more, too.
DeleteHang in there...try not to separate too much emotionally. Believe me - I've thought and tried that too. Focus on you...my hope is the rest will fall into place for all of us!
Hugs!
Sam A - I am so very sorry for your loss. May the memories give you comfort and know that so many of us are holding you in our thoughts and prayers during this difficult time. Hugs to you.
DeleteElle. This message is for you.
ReplyDeleteI want thank you for your blog. It's been my oasis in the shit storm. Your wisdom has been my foundation on which I rebuilt, and am still building, the strong and resillient woman I am today. I'm sorry we met because of a shared pain, but thanks to you and the other women, I am so much better than I was a year ago. 5 years ago. Hell...I'm the best I've been in my entire 55 years on this planet. One of the many, and I mean many, good things to came from the shit storm is you and I wanted to let you know that you are loved, admired and have a very special place in my heart. Thank you Elle. I love you...Michelle from very sunny California
Michelle, you just rock. I feel your strength. It is uplifting and encouraging. Thank you for being along with us for this journey. It kind of sucks but meeting all these strong women is awesome. Elle has saved me on many a day.
DeleteBeach Girl. Thank you so much for your kind words. They mean so much to me. I just had to send Elle a note to let her know how I feel about her and all of you Warrior Goddesses. You have all been instrumental in my desire for growth and healing. I am truly grateful and in awe of all of you. Thank you one and all...♥
DeleteSisters, I just read this and feel grateful for the message. Wanted to share about grief.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thriveglobal.com/stories/10668-the-one-thing-no-one-ever-says-about-grieving?utm_source=Thrive&utm_medium=Newsletter&mc_cid=4c53d206d8&mc_eid=23a7c2f5b0
Beach Girl, excellent article. I am so thankful you shared this. Grief has no time limit and I am just now at 1 1/2 years out been able to convince my h that my healing is on my time. Not his time, MY time.
DeleteThanks so much for sharing this.
Beach girl thank you for the link I've read it and sent it to my family members.. it's comforting and validates how I'm feeling. Our journey is very personal.. I'm just so grateful for you lovely women .. thank you xx
Delete^ that's great Beach Girl. Thanks
ReplyDeleteI think of how strong that I needed to be and it amazes me. I remember just days after dday going place to place and thinking "y'all have no idea about the storm I'm walking through. I think of this daily when I approach people. You just don't know what others are dealing with. Nobody talks about Infidelity, therefore you would never know who has been impacted by this. People talk about it in passing or it is gossip. I have no room in my life for this type of gossip and usually I shut people down when they begin to talk about what they think is going on in anothers marriage and what is being said. Many times they are very close to me, and deep inside I want to say....I've lived it and you had no clue, but I know now it's just a thing you want to talk about, rather than get someone through. I remember Ann saying she purchased a gift card to be used on running shoes --her therapist was to hand to another BW. What a wonderful gift we have here to relate and it's just nice to know all of you are gonna make it because we needed to step up and be stronger than ever. We've all walked in these shoes.
In many ways this is a form of grief that people just don't get. I find many of my friends that have lost a husband, lost a child or have endured cancer and they say that people don't know what to say and tend to disappear. In the face of it all, people are very supportive in the early days (just after the funeral, there to cheer them on when they get the NED No Evidence of Disease sign), etc and then suddenly the support system goes poof! Grief has no timeline for sure and for that I now know that on any given day someone is struggling with their ongoing grief, as do all of us. Sometimes pain teaches us to be kinder to others.
Heartfelt,
DeleteI totally agree. Giving that gift card was something I did to mark my 1 year since Dday. It filled me with purpose and something else to focus on. A way to make myself a force for good. Since I have so much experience grieving loss now (That's what this is for me. It's a profound loss), I have been able to be present with my friends who are struggling. A close friend had a miscarriage and I got a very sweet note from her yesterday thanking me for continuing to ask about how she's doing months later. For showing her so much compassion and sticking in there with her through her tough time. I think reaching out to others who are in pain is one way I can maintain a sense of self outside of my marriage and the sting of betrayal. I have to make this all MEAN something. I need to somehow be better off after climbing this mountain. I need it to belong to ME. My new connection to others and my new abilities to sit with others who are in pain and show compassion to them is something that can never be taken away from me no matter what my H choses to do in the future. I see that exact same superpower in all of us here. They way I see us supporting without judgement. The way we build each other up and cheer each other on. The pain is so great, but it's good to remember this beauty that's happening right along side it. You might as well notice it and celebrate it. Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying all this was "worth it". Certainly not. But there is not reason to leave beauty and joy on the table just because you are in pain I figure. Reaching out to others and showing compassion for them makes me feel like the world is an OK place to be afterall (there was I time I wasn't sure it was).
Hi ladies - I am sending hopeful prayers for all of us to have a good weekend...with our husband's, our families, with ourselves - whatever we are doing. I am a work in progress...after my rough week with my husband a while back and then some time last week working on myself and talking to the counselor, and really hearing how sad my husband is for my pain and knowing he caused it, I have worked hard this week to deal with the negatives thoughts/feelings when they have crept in. I can't say they have popped up less, but when they have come up, I have had some success working through them and not feeling the hurt physical effects.
ReplyDeleteBut anyway - I wanted to share a link to an article I read just over a week ago that has really resonated with me and helped me. When I first read the title about 6 things that keep us from healing, I thought "I bet one or two of them will be true of me." As I read it - I realized I was feeling or guilty of all 6!! And it is normal - but I realized how much I was holding myself back. It's not a magic solution, but it has allowed me to slow down, repeat the affirmation to myself (sometimes multiple times a day) and it has helped pull me back from dwelling on the past, or worrying too much about a negative future. I hope that each of you can pull something helpful from it.
https://www.goasksuzie.com/reasons-people-fear-healing#.WZ7xVyiGOM8
Thinking of you all...taking a deep breath and reminding myself I am strong even if I don't always feel like it. One moment at a time...we can do this ladies! (Hugs)
Today I accidently broke a window. I smashed my hand into it. I'm not a violent person. In fact I don't like violent movies.
ReplyDeleteBut we were talking and he said something like "I'm not that big of a lier" and I just smashed the window. :(
I'm almost 2 months out. And he's been transparent since dday . But hearing him say that he's not that big of a list just did something to me. I didn't mean to smash the window. I didn't mean it at all. I hate that. I hate expressing anger like that. It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated.
Now he's not talking and he feels that all he's doing is for nothing. I didn't apologise for the window. I know I was wrong to do that. He just sent me a message that he'll fix it in the morning and that it's all his fault anyway.
I just snapped when I heard him say those words even though we were talking calmly. I seem to be moving away from him. I hate that he lied for so long. I'm having a hard time getting past it specially since they work together.
It's not easy.
Emma - I am thinking of you, so much. I am 18 months out from Dday and I still struggle. Give yourself time, be kind to yourself. There is so much running through your heart and mind right now and it takes time, so much time, to get through it. My husband still works with the ex-OW, too. Unfortunately closer than I would like just because of their roles. My husband has been about 99% transparent, but really 100% - I just tend to doubt and it keeps me stuck. I am working hard right now to heal ME - my heart, my mind, my body, my self - and hopefully in time it will help heal the hurts in our marriage still. I started to realize that while I had not stepped outside of the marriage, I had created an unsafe emotional space for my husband with me. It was very, very hard to admit that, but I know in my heart it is 100% true. Does it excuse what he did? Absolutely not. But it gives me some empathy towards him, when I am honest about what our marriage was. Right now I am working on me, and I pray that if I can keep working on healing myself and if I can remain PATIENT, in time I will start to see him really open up to me in new ways more. It has only been about 2 weeks since I had a big "ah-ha" moment after a moment of weakness, and so it's still early, but last week I even felt a few glimmers of hope, of more sharing about work, when my husband came home.
DeleteEmma - remember to take care of you, and remember you are not alone. Keep breathing...one moment at a time! (Hugs)
Emma, I wanted to let you know that there are others out here who have acted out of anger. It's not something I'm proud of but I had my moments. I actually hit my husband. Twice. I threw phones. I punched a heavy bag until my knuckles were bruised and almost bleeding (and that was with gloves on). I was reacting to pain that was like nothing I had ever experienced. And my husband also said things early on that made me furious and made me want to hit him again. My therapist recommended doing something physical to deal with my anger. She suggested throwing clay at a piece of wood, breaking plates, something physical. For me, the heavy bag worked. I ran on the treadmill every day and then went into the garage and beat the crap out of that bag. I pictured the OW's face on it and punched away. I said all the things to that bag that I wanted to say to her. It was the outlet for all my anger and I needed it because keeping it inside was unhealthy. I also knew that hitting my husband wasn't okay and I didn't want to do it again.
DeleteIf you find yourself dealing with a lot of anger, it might help to find a way to release it.
And I'm sorry that your husband still works with her. That is very hard. Do you all have conversations about boundaries for his interaction with her? My husband continued to work with the OW for several months after the full truth came out and we had to put boundaries in place so I felt safe.
Hugs, Emma! ❤️
Emma, I think your reaction was normal - you didn't hurt H or the OW or yourself for that matter. You broke an inanimate object. And you knew right away that you didn't like it and don't want to do it again. Forgive yourself.
DeleteEmma,
DeleteIn the weeks following D-Day, I tossed a television off a table and smashed a $2,000 watch of my husband's (a gift from a group of his friends). The TV is gone. The watch is still broken.
None of it compares to the damage he did to me. And the same goes for you. You lost your temper. That's it. I hope you're okay but this is about you making clear to yourself and to him that you have a red line. And he crossed it. That you're just holding it together and he'd better damn well walk softly and think before he speaks.
You are responsible for your actions and, like others above, I urge you to find ways to release it. Anger is usually a mask for hurt and fear and when we really address that, often the anger dissipates. But sometimes we just need to scream. To hit pillows. To smash rocks on the ground. To run and run and run.
Hi Emma
DeleteMe too, around the 2 month mark, I put my hand through the the glass of a French door and had to get six stitches. I felt so aweful and ashamed that I couldn't "handle" my anger. Turns out I was trying way to hard to keep it together and be cooperative with my H and not attack him. Turns out I really had a lot of anger that I needed to get out and also recognize the pain and fear under neath the anger. Also it my case my H was really taking advantage of my "keeping it together"
Which was making more and more angry.
There is a lot of good advice given about doing something physical to get anger out of your body. Also journaling was good for me. Also remember that although 2 months feels like forever, it very early days. Be gentle with yourself, listen to your own needs and take care.
Much love and support sister
Becky
Sitting outside crying.
ReplyDeleteHe still works with the coworker. Too feel that I'm important asked him to misspell her name in work emails. Stupid right. Too me it's something. But stupid right.
I told him you didn't do what i asked two weeks ago. He went crazy. Started yelling that he hates everything.
I know I was second to work . I never put my foot down all these years and explained to him that family comes first. He gets behind that computer and forgets about us. I told him to spend the morning of the weekends with us and then work at evenings. I asked that in the beginning of my marriage but I failed and just gave in.
I accepted being second. And now after the affair I just asked that he misspells her name. This was too much for him..
We are only 2 months out. Did he forget that I was crying yesterday and the day before and the day before.....
Where do I stand with him.
I told him to fix our marriage and for me to stay i want simple things...
Don't contact her unless it's work related.
Spell her name wrong.
Tell me if she contacts you.
Remove her from fb
Aren't these easy and simple requests?
I didn't ask for any financial reassurance (Which he can afford).
I'm still waiting for him to get rid of the affair car.
Does he not see what the affair did to me. I don't understand.
I am so sorry. I think what you are feeling is so normal. Still at 2 1/2 years past dday there are days and moments that I feel so much pain. And even though much of our issues related to the affairs have been dealt with the pain still is there. Also we have moved on to working on our marriage. My expectations are higher than ever before too.
DeleteOne thing that has happened is both in the past and still today my husband deflects, becomes defensive all to avoid dealing with facing the pain he has caused me, himself and our marriage. I never expected this. But it took probably a year past dday before this came out. And he said he hated himself so much until about 2 years past dday.
Is there any way he can consider finding a new job even if it might take a while. Sometimes for me taking action helps me feel better. Also we had a lot of hard conversations where he did have to hear how I felt. I wrote daily in a journal. We would set one time a week to talk about the affairs. I would look over my journal and see what continued to bother me. When we would talk it helped me be more effective and less emotional. In the end it helped me feel better. And that is what I realized no matter what he did I needed to find out what would help me feel better. Find what you need. But I also had to find the best way to break through to him. At one point it was a very direct letter demanding transparency.
Thinking of you!!
Emma,
DeleteI'm so sorry for how you're feeling right now. Two months is very early. I don't think anything you've asked for is unreasonable. Asking him to misspell her name in e-mails isn't stupid... I actually think it's a great, especially if it would make you feel better.
I don't know exactly what your situation is but it sounds as if your husband might still be in the "fog". My husband was very angry and very defensive early on. Our situations might be different. I had three d-days. D-day 1 - I found the phone records and he lied and said it was an emotional affair. I asked him to cut off contact and unfriend her on FB. It took a few weeks for the FB thing to happen. He felt bad for her because of circumstances going on I her life. Ugh. D-day 2 - She contacted him and he responded. D-day 3 - I saw an FB messenger notification from her pop up on his iPad. They were no longer friends but obviously still messaging. I confronted him and found out it had been a physical affair and that it resumed after d-day 2. I told him he had a choice to make within 24 hours... continue his affair or try to work on our marriage. After d-day 3, we started joint therapy. I believe that's when things really started to turn around. It took him realizing the magnitude of what he had done to really start working on why he had done it and what he was going to do to change.
It's crazy to us betrayed that they can turn anger on us when they get found out. After all, they were the ones doing something wrong and we're the ones who are hurt. How could they not know the damage they were causing? But as much as I've read about affairs and I've tried to read perspectives from both sides... many cheaters have themselves so convinced they'll never get caught that they are shocked when they are. It's mind-boggling.
I mentioned in another comment that if they still work together you might need to establish some very clear boundaries to help you feel safe. My husband was asked to tell me anytime she spoke to him, whether it was work related or not. He was asked to tell me how many times firing the day he saw her. They worked in separate areas of a small company so they had limited reason to interact. She made a habit of waking past his office as much as she could so eventually, he just kept his door closed. She was shut out both physically and symbolically. And I also asked him to text me every day when he realized she had left the office. As silly as this may sound, that was the time when they would talk every day. Having him text me didn't prevent him from being able to call her, but for some reason it made me feel better.
Sending you big hugs, Emma! Take care of yourself and keep coming here to post. You will receive great support and insight.
Emma, I can feel your suffering. When we are younger we feel pain because something was done to us, as adults you feel pain because something was taken from you. I can remember clearly my pain, anger, rage for the first six months. It is excruciating. I'm so sorry this happened and you don't deserve it nor was it your choice. This is not your fault. My H did not work with the OW - he gave her a job! Different things work for different woman. I'm a task person not a managing person. It is hard but take care of yourself and do actions that make YOU feel better. Have you both been STD tested? I'm no expert but the way he said, "It's no big lie" says he is in denial about the devastation he caused. If he works with the OW he probably sees her, right? Does he tell you when he does? What is their working relationship? Different departments? Boss? Why are you waiting for him to get rid of the car? Get in the car drive it to the nearest dealer and leave it until YOU choose another car. If the car is not in your name that is ok, leave it anyway. He can get his sorry ass to the dealership. "Honey, I just wanted to make it easy on you because I know you have such hard time with being honest. I maybe reading too much into this but it sounds like he may still have contact with her based on his comments. He likes the way she makes him feel and that is an addiction that sometimes is hard to give up. Cheaters also always lie mine did for 2.5 years about the details. You can't believe him anyway although you want to. You want him to misspell the OW name as proof that you are important. Raise the bar - you are worth it. Don't let him bully you or as Steam says, blow you off. Why don't go to his work randomly and drop in? This breaks the compartmentalization because the two worlds are colliding. He has the OW in his work world and you in the home world. If he is not in just sit there until he gets back. Bring something for him a reason to be there - bring him a big candy bar that looks like a turd or one of those pacifier candy. Bring a picture of the both of you for his desk like a wedding picture. I randomly showed up everywhere to make sure he was telling the truth and yes, check up on him. He lies ok? Too bad for him oh-well. I showed up a coffee shop every morning where he goes to have coffee with his friends. Low cut blouse - you betcha. I admit it was part of the pick me game but it made me feel good for him to see the other men ogling. Brought him lunch at work. Called and asked him to take me to lunch. Getting your car fixed today? Yes, hi there, I'm checking on how much is it going to cost. Hello cheater. I'd walk into his office and look at his computer screen - watcha lookin at? Let me see. Whatever the reason this made me feel good. It took me 1.5 years to finally decide not to divorce. Just so you know, I threw away everything I thought touched him, then her, then me. I got rid of it all. The worst thing in your life already happened - what can else can happen that is just as worse - if you have to sit in his office, so what if his company doesn't like it. Let them tell you that not him. Ask to see a company policy. He looses all control of you, what you do or what you say. You didn't cheat. Remember he needs to work for a second chance - it doesn't come free.
DeleteHe won't see what the affair has done to you for awhile and he won't admit it for awhile if he does. He doesn't want to think of himself as a cheater.
Emma, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I, too, accepted being second to work - for far to many years. He always put work before me and the kids. I'm 20 months out and still having to do work on myself so don't be hard on yourself. You are not asking too much from him. Setting boundaries is a good thing. It's going to take both of you to fix your marriage. It is so hard and it wasn't something I wanted to have to do, I wanted my h to do it too. But unfortunately, it takes both. My h and I went to counseling one week after dday (the day after Christmas...). It was really eye opening to say the least. Our counselor insisted on no contact, which my h broke 2 months after dday (and I in turn broke his iPad - cost $$ to replace...) Not proud of that moment. So yes, it isn't too much to remove her from FB. If he can't change jobs, then no contact except for work situations.
DeleteI'm rambling and others can offer better advice but want you to know that you're only 2 mos. out from dday. Be gentle with yourself.
Emma,
DeleteEverything you are asking for is perfectly reasonable. So please know that. You are asking to be respected within this marriage. You are asking him to show up and be present in your family.
But you are asking for these things from a place of hurt and, to some degree, desperation. I suspect a lot of your anger is at yourself for having abandoned yourself earlier in the marriage. So here's what I'd like you to work at. Stop giving away your power. He cheated on you and he wants you to give him a second chance. Okay. You're willing to entertain that notion but here's what you want in return. And then figure out exactly what that is. You want him to prioritize family over work, which means X, Y and Z. And, oh my god, removing her from social media is a no-brainer. It sounds cold but it's not. It just that you're no longer prioritizing peace within the family over your own wants/needs/self-respect. When you've become accustomed to putting your own needs aside, it can feel horribly uncomfortable to start paying attention to them and asking others to. But sit with that discomfort. Get used to it and pay attention to your own needs anyway.
A lot of us need to change within the wake of infidelity. But that's not a bad thing. Too many of us have spent a lifetime accommodating others at our own expense. We've assumed that the payoff is loyalty or appreciation or love. But, as infidelity shows us, we often assumed wrong.
We weren't rewarded with loyalty. We were blindsided by infidelity. And we're furious BECAUSE LOOK AT WHAT WE DID FOR EVERYONE ELSE, ESPECIALLY OUR HUSBANDS. Ahem. So, Emma, it's time to tap into your inner nasty woman. The one who says, 'no way, not any more'. The one who knows that she's worth fighting for. The one who knows that, no matter how much it hurts, she'll be fine if her husband refuses to start respecting her boundaries. You can do this, Emma. So so many of us on this site have come face to face with how being nice and accommodating and a loyal wife was, in fact, a dereliction of our duty to take care of ourselves.
I absolutely love your reply. Will read it over and over again.
DeleteThank you Elle!! At 2 years out and in a different phase I still NEED this message and reminder to prioritize my needs. My needs count!!
DeleteEmma
ReplyDeleteI am really sorry that you are going through this.
You really need to talk to someone. Either a professional counselor or these women at FREE PEER COUNSELLORS
Infidelity Counselling Network. These women are wonderful and supportive They have all gone through what we have. I used them and it only cost me $25 but, that cost may have changed. You can talk to them when ever you need to. They are so supportive. I think that they could help you.
The free peer counselling service (you can find a link in the right side margin of this site) is fantastic and has helped so many people. BUT NOW THEY NEED OUR HELP. THEY ARE DESPERATELY SEEKING AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTION TO HELM THE ORGANIZATION. IT'S A VERY PART-TIME, VOLUNTEER POSITION (THERE'S A SMALL HONORARIUM) BUT WITHOUT SOMEONE STEPPING IN, THEY WILL HAVE TO CLOSE. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN BEING CONSIDERED, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
DeleteThank you all for your support and love. I had no one to talk to yesterday except you and the replies you gave me reminds me that I'm not alone. And that I'm not crazy.
ReplyDeleteGod bless you all .
So not crazy. Normal. And hurt. And healing.
DeleteThis site has been so powerful. When I am down hearing and reading "me too". The support is amazing. It really is a great place. This is such a hard and challenging time but we are all here.
DeleteIf I can I'd like to throw in a little 2 cents regarding the OWs. It oh so tempting to focus all your anger and hurt squarely on them, the disrupters. When the OW's husband briefed me on what had been happening, his anger and bitter hatred was focused all on my husband. I understand that, I do, because it's easier to put it there. I told him that I couldn't put all my anger and blame on his wife. She made no vows to me, she was not my partner, I never expected or relied on her to have my back. She did not betray me. She did a hateful, ugly thing, for sure. But she did not betray me. My husband did that. And I don't care if she did a naked lap dance on top of him and begged him, HE should have walked away. He didn't. He broke his vow to me and he betrayed me. And he is the one who is solely responsible.
ReplyDeleteShe is also a friend of his whole group of childhood friends. We're all friends, and friended on FB. Sometimes I want to tell them all what happened, and one day I will. But after DDay, I would think how badly I wanted them all to hate her for what she did, and for being so awful. But then I realized then, that I would have to ask them all to hate my husband too, for he did exactly the same thing to her husband that she did to me. (A little worse actually, b/c they actually had sex at their house-twice-two different houses, including where they live now). I would like his friends to be pissed at them both and scold them both for being fucking idiots, but I guess I don't really want them to hate her, because them they would have to hate him.
I think she is pathetic in a pitiable way. Seriously, how bad do you have to feel about yourself to be okay with wrecking two families? So, I pity her. I'm not going to tear her down and wish horrible things on her. I'm going to just see her for what she is, a desperate and insecure person, to be pitied. I cannot build myself up by trampling on her.
Her husband said I was more generous than he could be toward my husband. I don't think I'm being generous, I just don't think she is worth my energy. I mean, really, she's obviously a mess already.
I absolutely am not judging anyone who lets the hate flow freely toward the OWs. I get it! But I think I'm echoing Elle by saying, be careful how much energy you give up to them in hateful, vengeful thoughts. You might do more harm to yourself than to them.
❤️❤️ To all ❤️❤️
Periwinkle, I for the most part, have always felt exactly the same way you do and you articulated it well. My husband had a brief fling when our oldest was a baby back in the early 1980's and spent the last ten years paying for hookers. I don't blame anyone but him for not keeping his pants on. I've been successful at warding off admirers over the years and expected him to do the same. I hate that women sell their bodies and sexual services but I only blame my husband for being the immature asshole he was for making the decision to wreck havoc on our lives. This is his shit and does not reflect on me. He did not ask my permission, approval or feedback before hand so whatever happens is on him.
DeletePeriwinkle, yes - you have articulated it perfectly!! I remember someone once on here once wrote that she couldn't see how to fully forgive the husband without forgiving the OW and that her anger towards the OW was fueled so much because she couldn't bring herself to feel that hatred against him. The example you used about telling your friends would require them to hate him too, it's really powerful. You are right - pitying them really is the best revenge.
DeletePeriwinkle. I too was betrayed by a friend and I struggle with forgiving her when she did the same shit my husband did. Only 2 people know she was the other woman. One told her she was an ass for doing it. Needless to say, I have little to no contact with the group of friends that she is part off and it makes me sad and angry. Being the better person can be so ungratifying at times, and I hope some day I can forgive her as I have my husband. Right now I just pity her sorry ass and hope I never see her again. It burns me up though, that I have chosen to give up a large group of friends cause of their shitty choices. it really chaps my hide.
Delete