Tuesday, May 19, 2015

Letting Go of Heavy: Sometimes healing means putting down the pain

You will find that it is necessary to let things go; simply for the reason that they are heavy. So let them go, let go of them. I tie no weights to my ankles.  ~ C. JoyBell C.

At first, when we realize the pain has dulled, that pleasure, even slivers of it, have returned to our days, we rejoice. This, we figure, is what all those people were talking about. A new marriage. A better one. A partner whose awareness that he almost lost it all has invigorated his dedication, his determination to deserve the second chance we're offering.
But then we settle into a new normal. No longer the high highs or the devastating lows, life has regained its equilibrium. Our husband has shown himself worthy again of trust. We're often grateful for things that, perhaps, we weren't before.
The longer we go, however, without the drama and the intensity of D-Day and its aftermath, the more space there is for doubt to creep in.
He's 20 minutes late coming home for picking up pizza. Where was he really? He quickly puts down his phone when we enter the room. He shuts his laptop. The waitress at a restaurant seems to give him a look.
Or maybe he gets annoyed at us for moving some papers of his that he now can't find. Or frustrated that we forgot to fill the car up with gas.
Wait a minute, we think. He cheated on us! How dare he make me feel bad for, well, anything. He owes me bliss!!
And, frankly, yes, yes he does. But you ain't gonna get it. None of us is. The universe doesn't operate that way. Bliss comes in moments, not lifetimes.
The problem is that many of us think that, if we do the incredibly hard work of rebuilding our marriage, of giving him a second chance, of facing down our friends and family who think we're crazy for sticking it out, that we'll be rewarded with a better-than-ever marriage. Many betrayed wives have sites that essentially promise that an affair has actually made their marriage better. And while I'm on board with the possibility that rebuilding a marriage is just as viable an option post-infidelity as leaving the marriage, we have to be careful that we don't gloss over just how difficult marriage – any marriage! – is. To expect that marriage, post-betrayal, is going to be sunshine and roses is to set all of us up for disappointment.
And disappointment can feel crushing after all we've been through. Disappointment can feel like a dagger after so many indignities.
Preparing for it, though, can help us through its inevitable appearance.
I don't mean disappointment because he lied. Or disappointment because he went out with his buddies on your birthday. Or disappointment that he can't keep his temper in check. There are valid reasons to call  him out for being disrespectful and dishonest and giving you reason to reconsider your choice to stay.
No, I'm referring to the routine disappointments of life. He forgets to ask how your day was. He doesn't bother to compliment you on your haircut or the great meal you cooked. He makes it clear that he'd rather stick needles in his eyes than go to your mothers for dinner.
Routine disappointments that deserve to be noted and your hurt shared...but are hardly deal-breakers.
Disappointments that all of us are guilty of because we get tired. We get grumpy. We take those we love for granted now and again.
Disappointments that we need to let go because they're part of the ebb and flow of life. Because we're human.
A big part of healing from betrayal is learning what we need to let go, what weight we need to put down. It can be tricky. And it can be helpful to have friends, either in real life or virtual, that you can trust to help you with this. Should I have lambasted him when he was 10 minutes late because of a train? Or am I over-reacting? Is it reasonable for him to have dinner with his new female work colleague because they're on a project together or should he have said 'no'?
There are going to be bumps and missteps. You're going to over-react to some things and, sometimes,  under-react to legitimate red flags. You're going to have to figure some of this out as you go along.
But the more you can begin to let go, the more you can put down some of the weight you've been carrying, the more quickly you can move into a future that will have its share of downs, but also plenty of ups. Ups that you'll be better able to appreciate because you'll be present for them.


84 comments:

  1. Elle,
    This is a timely piece for me. We just returned from visiting our daughter last weekend and made it our 44 th anniversary celebration. Don't know why people expect us to count each year of being together when I subtract years for the time my husband was with his flight attendant " ladies" but they do. I talked to my therapist about how hard it still is to be in a hotel room and he suggested that I view the trip as a talisman. This new chapter of our lives as grandparents. As your post suggests, you need to let go of pain to heal. I can bring back staggering painful visions of his hotel jaunts or I can think of our grandson when I wake up at 2 am. My choice. My favorite mantra from therapy Is to stop hurting myself. I never expected life to be filled with joy after what I grew up in and maybe that was a huge part of the problem. Sadness is more comfortable. Sometimes I feel like PigPen in the old comic Peanuts. That guy who walked around in a cloud of dirt only my is a cloud of sadness and shame. As someone posted, grab the joy and run with it but in my case it slips away. Life after betrayal is never the same but it can as you suggest have some joyful moments. Just let it in.

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    1. PW,
      I think so much of what you're noticing is true. We can get into a habit of focussing on what's wrong, what's missing, what isn't how it "should" be. Or we can focus on what we have, what's right, and what's good. It's always a choice. Doesn't mean we ignore very real issues. It just means that we don't hyper-focus on the half-empty glass. There's clearly much in your life that's worthy of celebration.

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    2. Yes!! Pilots wife -- those joyful moments are called GRANDKIDS!!! My oldest gran just told me that when he turns 16 next year he would be getting a car and could drive down to see me whenever he wants!! He was so happy saying to me - at 16 he would not have to wait for the parents to bring him!!

      I do not know if I will be living in the same place but he will have my new address AND Gramma (he calls me) will get him a GPS for his first car. How sweet is that. Only thing is now I have to keep the house picked up whereever I am living.

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  2. PART I
    Dear Elle,

    This post was timely for me, as well. Our one year after "D Day" came in March and was quite difficult for me. It was a time of reevaluation of the past year and struggling to find recommitment to my original goal of staying together. But then, on the heel of my unsteadiness, our 27 year anniversary followed one month later. He planned a surprise weekend getaway for the two of us. We had a good time, but each moment was not quite the same for me. Each moment was a little bit emptier. I found I couldn't quite participate with my whole heart, as I am still living with only part of my heart these days. I found I was just a little guarded as I did my best to be vulnerable to the situation. We had sex for the first time. I was hesitant and unsure if I wanted to open myself in this way. I did, but it was difficult.

    The following weekend after we returned we were talking and more—very different details surfaced about one his most recent affair. He had been passing it off all this time as a "sex only" affair that lasted five years. I knew all along that this couldn’t be true. Well, the truth finally came out that it was much more than that. That he cared a great deal for this wretched woman; he laughed with her and they had a "great time together;" she was his "best friend." When I asked him to label his feelings (i.e., did he love her?) his response was that he wasn't "in love" with her--but “he guessed it was possible” that he "may have loved her as a friend and a lover." Did you notice his choice of words? Not only that, what the hell does that statement mean? It sounds like a fancy dance around the truth to me! This entire conversation ripped open my heart all over again and took me straight back to the very beginning. It was yet another lie revealed and he STILL wasn't truly owning it nor being honest about things. To say I was livid is an understatement!

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  3. PART II
    He has been giving me the "trickle truth" this entire past year about every single thing, which means that every time a new detail comes out, no matter how big or small, it takes me back to the beginning of my healing process. This time he finally openly admitted to me that he had tried to "downplay" the relationship so as "not to hurt me." However, I quickly corrected him by telling him that in doing so, he really didn't care about me or my feelings--he was trying to save his own ass all the while telling me “it’s no longer about me anymore, it’s about you.”! I was furious. And, worst of all, it felt like our weekend getaway was a complete farce. I had let my guard down to the possibility of getting close again and I felt like the entire thing was based on a lie. The entire past year was based on a lie!! And I had SEX with this mana! This liar and cheat! This man who is trying to rebuild our relationship based on lies and further deceit! The whole thing made me feel cheap and dirty. I was disgusted in him and in myself for ever trying to trust him and let him in again. Am I an idiot??

    So here we are once again back at square one, only this time it’s worse than square one. This time I am hurt even more. I stopped seeing the counselor. I told him I want to separate now. I don't know how to fix this or even if I want to fix this. I have stepped back into my shell and slammed the door shut--or almost shut. A part of me still wants to make this work, but then I question just what the hell do I want to "make work??" Am I a glutton for punishment?? Am I just some weak, stupid woman who is willing to accept any lie this man is willing to tell to hang on to my marriage?? What the hell kind of marriage is this and why the hell would I want to keep it under these circumstances?? I deserve better than this! If we separated tomorrow, my life would NOT be over at 55 yeas old! How can I ever trust him when new things come up and the entire story changes...for the 200th time!! He can't keep his story straight because he has told me so many lies! How can I ever rebuild anything on a firm base when he has lied so much--not only to me, but to himself, too, so he could live his double life without guilt in the first place! He doesn't even know what is true anymore. It is absolutely gut wrenching to me. I don't know if I can or want to move forward on this basis. I realize now that I will never, ever know the truth. I will never have closure. I know in my heart he will never come clean and truly “own it” and that’s a deal breaker for me. Because if he can’t be truthful and accept responsibility, then he hasn’t changed at all. What’s even more important, if he cannot be honest and truthful with the ability to own his mistakes, he cannot take part in a mature, adult relationship with me. He cannot be fully present in our marriage. Obviously, that is a deal breaker for me.

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  4. PART III
    Unfortunately, just after all of this we had to go out of town together to take care of our grandchildren while our daughter and her husband took a much needed vacation together. While gone, I observed the way he lovingly interacted with our grandchildren. He was gentle and kind and each one of the kids couldn’t love him more. It was a start reminder to me just how far reaching it would be if we ended our marriage. Because even though our kids are grown, it still isn’t just about us. The hearts of our grandchildren will be broken in two almost just as severely as if they were our own children. Because we are part of a close knit, intricately woven family, the after affects of divorce would extend in some way to everyone. This trip served to be a difficult reminder of one good, solid reason to work things out. We have an entire life together that encompasses so much more than just us and what he did to us. But is this enough to go on? What about our personal relationship? Do I forfeit that part of the equation in order to salvage everything else? It just isn’t making any sense to me. Where do I draw the line? Do my personal feelings even matter? Apparently he doesn’t think so. Maybe somewhere deep inside, I don’t either? Because I struggle a great deal in justifying our staying together when I think about it in terms of our personal relationship. Where does my own self worth lie in all of this? I am NOT his personal doormat. How can I maintain my self respect in all of this when I find the decision to stay with him compromising my principles? Am I being unreasonable or are my feelings valid? So many questions…so much at stake.

    So where do I begin? Where do I restart my healing…how do I restart my healing? I don’t know. I am back to square one and feeling quite defeated; more scared than ever; more uncertain about the future. I am at a loss.

    Thank you for listening,
    Merilee

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    1. Marilee,

      I can totally understand your thoughts on grandparent responsibilities. For me too, I wonder about the legacy we leave behind to the next generation. Grandma and grandpa stayed together but it sucked or stayed together and were supportive to their family they began, my therapist would argue that self comes first. And he would also suggest an old movie, Shirley Valentine, to reinforce that idea. It validates the importance of protecting yourself. There is no greater joy for me than the chance to see my grandson and children. Why would I give that up? There are all kinds of marriages out there, so you really do need to figure out what trade offs work for you.

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    2. Merilee,
      You've been dealt another blow and will need time to digest it all. I wish I could get through to these husbands just how damaging it is to minimize what they've done, to trickle truth the story, to "protect" us. It all adds up to MORE pain for us. All any of us ever really want is to know exactly what happened so we can absorb it and figure out where we go from there.
      So...since you're confused, don't make any big decisions. What you can do, in fact insist upon, is that he give you the entire story. The ENTIRE story. He can either do it with a polygraph if you want to go that route, or conduct a "full disclosure" session with a therapist, or simply write it out for you to read. He needs to include everything -- how long it went on, how frequent the sex, any fights they had, whether or not he met friends/family of her, whether they exchanged gifts and so on. He needs to give you a clear look at the relationship -- crystal clear. And then, if he's smart, he'll include just what he's learned from all this. He'll include just how sorry he is that he made such a devastating choice. He'll include just how desperately he wishes he could go back in time and make a different choice and he'll promise you that he'll spend the rest of his life proving to you that he deserves a second (third!!) chance and just what he plans to do in order to get clear on WHY he made such a devastating choice. And then YOU get to decide where you go from there.
      If he won't do that for you, or if he continues to try and protect himself, then he's making it clear to you that life with him in the future will be pretty much what it has been in the past -- him protecting himself at your expense.
      I'm so sorry you're going through this. He could have prevented all this by being honest and transparent from the beginning. He has created this shitstorm by trying to downplay his affair and protect himself from your wrath. Now he can deal with the consequences. He still doesn't seem to get that his actions -- whatever they are -- have consequences. And you get to decide what those consequences are.

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    3. Thank you both for your responses. I appreciate so much hearing that others are going through this, too, and I'm really not out of my mind. I actually am out of my mind--wth grief.

      Recently when I got a little bit more of the story, it was only because I laid down the law and told him I wanted the complete truth. That was an awful conversation. I have to absolutely drag every single thing from him. It is completely frustrating and completely disrespectful to me. And I told him that. Then I get the "I don't remember" and "I can't go there anymore". I told him neither of those excuses were acceptable. But he will not offer anything on his own. Nothing. If I don't think to ask the question, he certainly will not be willing to tell me. Even if I do ask the question, he may or may not "remember."

      I told him I wanted him to move out, but I don't think he plans to do any such thing. He will bide his time and hope I don't mention it again.That is what he does with everything.

      It seems clear to me that if change is going to take place, it will be changes that I make myself. If I'm going to change things, I am afraid it may not be a change to save my marriage no matter how much I want to do so. I think I have sacrificed enough of myself for him now. That is most likely what contributed to this kind of behavior in the first place.

      I think maybe I have made enough threats and set enough boundaries. Perhaps it is now time to act. My heart is broken.

      Thank you,
      Merilee

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    4. Marilee,
      This was hard for me to reconcile. What I value and hold most dear is honesty. So how do I reconcile staying with someone who trashed what I value the most? That was very hard for me and I'm still working on it daily. I had to justify in my mind that although this person trashed what I value he is worth it. I didn't even consider what my family would say or do if we got divorced. They don't have to reconcile living with heaven and hell at the same time.

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    5. Merilee,
      I wrote this a while back to try and reach men. Perhaps he'll read it: http://betrayedwivesclub.blogspot.ca/2014/04/my-letter-to-husbands-just-talk-about.html
      While I mention in that post just how important it is that WE be able to talk about it, of course, the other piece of that is that we shouldn't have to drag out every piece of information. It's excruciating to stumble on new information. It feels like our beating heart is ripped out yet again. The best thing for everyone involved is to come completely clean and then begin at Ground Zero.

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  5. I'm now 19 months out and it is difficult to figure out the new normal. This is sad but I really don't know my husband (35 years of marriage) and I'm learning so much about him now we are talking and he is talking. When we have disagreements or disappointments about something other than the affair but just about normal marriage stuff, it's a new path. I have never been down this road and have no filter on what is best. I have been in hyper vigilant state since Dday and it is hard to stop it. That is part of my weight. I still have this river of underlying anxiety which I can't seem to shake. There are so many weights to lay down. When I just think of all that weight it is a wonder I'm not an inpatient in a lock down unit. What this post describes to me is the weight of trust, mind movies, waiting/watching for him to revert back, his quiet times (there must be something wrong), did I make the right decision? The list is endless at times. Sometimes I just want my mind to have some peace and quiet. I will never be the same person and some days I'm glad that is true. My therapist says I can't keep holding the hurt, anger, in one hand and a new marriage in the other. My husband has really thought about what he did and why. His thinking about the affair has changed. He really has thought about this a lot. He told me this weekend all the things he said about the affair early was not totally true (she was fun, bubbly, sexy, glad to see him, how she made him feel) he looks back and he was trying to justify his actions. He said yes it was all that at first but she was a substitute and would rather have me the entire time. Over time I checked out of our marriage and he didn't have the courage to reel us back in, he was caught up in restments and his own sad condition both mental and physical. He says how superficial it was, he dreaded her calls, he did just enough so she wouldn't tell me, she whined, she was needy, their sex became routine. He told me there were many times she called wanted to see him and he said no, there were many times she wanted to come over to our house, he said no, she wanted him to bring her coffee, lunch or had a new crisis and he said no, she wanted to have sex and he said no. What happens if I lay all this weight down? I never realized how many things I'm carrying beside just the day to day curve balls. I'm afraid to let go of it. In a creepy way it feels good to hang on to it but I know it is not good for me. I have not verbally beat him up about in four weeks . Do I want to? Hell yes, you better believe I do but at least it is a big weight to put down. I'm really afraid of what is around the corner I can't see and I already know what I'm carrying, it is comfortable knowing but not good for me in many ways. This is a brand new path and I'm still leaving bread crumbs so I can find my way back to what I already know I'm carrying. Know is the big word because for so long I didn't know. As always this site makes me reflect and think about what is happening. Thank you.

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    1. Lynn,
      I think you've turned a really important corner. Just recognizing how much you're holding onto is huge. And recognizing that you get something (no matter how unhealthy) from holding on to all that is huge. It can be frightening to let go. We think it's somehow protecting us, that if we move forward we're saying it's all okay and it's most definitely NOT okay. But at some point, we need to take that step in order to lead a full life.
      Also sounds as if your husband is taking a hard look at his choice...and coming up against some uncomfortable truths.
      Growth can be scary and painful.

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  6. Elle, I am hoping you'll have some insight into my one year status since D-Day and how to overcome the barriers. I re-read my posts and they sound like a tyrade. I apologize. That was not my intention. I feel like I'm a crazy lady. I don't know which way to turn. I would be grateful for any advice.

    Sincerely,
    Merilee

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    1. Yup. See above. I don't have all the answers...but I know you do. You just need to give yourself time and space. And you also need to lay down the law with him. Make it very clear what your boundaries are and what the consequences are if he violates them.

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    2. Merilee,

      It was not a tyrade. It was your heart speaking while in pain. Everyone here has had that pain -but- for each of us it was different. You are not crazy but betrayal is "crazy making". I'm in a similar boat - different ocean but similar boat. HIMSELF is one of the ninja masters of "trickle truth".(some days I call it "trickle LIES") My original DDay was in June 2014 and there have been many more DDays since then.

      Please take care of yourself.

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    3. SS is absolutely right. Beating ourselves up for expressing quite legitimate pain doesn't serve us at all. We should all go of many more tirades...perhaps the world would begin to recognize just how damaging infidelity is.

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  7. I am almost 3 months from Dday. From reading other post on this wonderful site I realize that is a short time. I have been married for 16 yrs and have 2 kids. His affair lasted just over 2 months. I caught him texting her and then lying about it. As soon as he lied I knew something was up. He was in charge of a big project at work and she was someone in inventory and they just started talking about how unhappy they were with their spouses. Since she was only married for 4 months I figure she didn't have much to talk about. Once he was caught I had to pull the truth from him. He would give me a little bit of truth and a lot of lies. After going back to him 7 different times telling him his story doesn't add up he would confess to a little more. I am so hurt with all the lying as we are trying to work on our marriage. He said he lied because he didn't want to hurt me, which I find hilarious. I told him because he continues to lie I am actually considering divorce since I can't try to start recovering from this if he isn't going to be honest. We are in counseling and on our first visit she even said the whole truth needed to come out because it eventually will with holes in stories ect.. And that is torture on me. He told her everything was out. But it wasn't. I told him not to come back to counseling until he is ready to take this serious. He says he is sorry and I believe him. He had said in counseling that most of our problems came from his selfishness. Now I was not without blame in our marriage problems, but he was extremely selfish. He never compromised and if he didn't want to do it but realized he wouldn't get his way he would be passive aggressive and give the silent treatment. There were times that I thought my 11 year old daughter was acting more reasonable than him. So with this affair being the most selfish thing he has done and it has hit me hard I don't know how to put down the weight and start forgiving. I know I am very early in the process, but I am starting to think I won't be able to forgive him. I believe that if we didn't have kids I would have already left. I know some kids do just fine in split homes, but I don't think my daughter would. She doesn't have a disability but she needs stability. She gets upset when things change. More upset than a normal child. So I have picked to stay for the kids and because I still love my H. But I can't see past the pain right now. I have tried over and over in my head to start to forgive him, but I cant. I start thinking about how he picked to start this with the OW and was content with what he was doing until he got caught. He was even looking up other places to live. So please give some pointers on how to start forgiving.

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    1. Amy,
      I think it's far too soon to be thinking about forgiveness. I think your first goal is to begin your own healing. To focus on what you need right now in order to feel safe.
      It sounds as if, like most of us, you need total and complete honesty from your husband about what happened. And you likely need total transparency from him now, about where he is, who he's with, etc. Access to all phones/computers. And then it's completely reasonable (and smart) to insist that he seek help to get clear on what stories he was telling himself that made cheating okay. The whole "my marriage is crappy" lies that so many men tell themselves to absolve themselves of guilt about betrayal.
      Whether you ultimately choose to stay or leave, give yourself some time to sift through this. I stayed in large part because my kids (eldest in particular) struggles with change and I thought I wouldn't be able to handle her distress on top of my own. But I think there was more to it than that. I really wanted to raise my children in an intact family, which meant rebuilding my marriage. But I would have only done that with a husband totally committed to the same thing.
      Three months out really is such a short time. I know it feels like an eternity but your brain and body are still absorbing this shock.
      Get clear on what YOU need, make very clear boundaries, and give yourself a bit of time to just digest all of this before you start making demands on yourself to respond to it with forgiveness. That comes organically, I think, when you're honouring yourself.

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    2. Amy,
      I am 2 years past the first d-day. I haven't forgiven. I am reading Janice Springs "How Can I Forgive You" and now I understand why I am not forgiving him right now. He hasn't actually delivered on the healing process. He has too much personal baggage to deal with so I am still waiting while he heals himself.
      I am working on what Spring calls "acceptance." That I can do. Work on that first and then look to see if forgiveness is realistic.
      We have had lots of highs and lots of lows. Now we are in between and I feel strong and able to hold it together enough. I am not sure if he will get his shit together. He actually has to change himself for me to forgive. I don't only have to forgive this transgression but the many years of his acting like a selfish a$$. The reason for my disconnect from him and hence gave him his "excuse" to cheat, was that he refuse to behave like an adult. My relief is in knowing that it was not my fault and I did my best to work on our marital problems while he hid from the truth. I am understanding that my role in our marital breakdown was trying to fix him and get him to grow up. I took way too much responsiblity. So now, I am keeping my boundaries and waiting for him to grow up (which he is trying to do). I am trying to put down my pain for myself. But he is definitely not forgiven.

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    3. MBS and Amy,
      I think I kinda slid into forgiveness sideways. I had pretty much decided that forgiveness was not in my playbook. I could accept. I could move on. But forgiveness? Leave that to the saints.
      But now I can see that I have forgiven. My husband is no longer the guy who could conduct himself so selfishly. He has too much self-awareness now. That's not to say he won't cheat again. Who knows? But if he does it, he does it knowing exactly the price he'll pay, which includes his own self-respect.
      So, yes. Forgiveness. Including of myself for not seeing what was happening. For ignoring my own intuition. For disrespecting myself. For silencing myself. That will NOT happen again.

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    4. Thank you Elle and MBS. I thought forgiveness needed to come because my husband is very sorry and wants to work on this and has already showing me how he has changed. However, I feel like I am suffering whiplash because he is so different than the man that I married. I know it is early and he wont always be this attentive. It makes my head spin because he went from a selfish man that if it wasn't his way he hated you. He even was looking to leave me and the kids, well actually refinance the house and ask me to leave. As soon as I found out and a guy from his work had a talk with him about life he is a new man. It is to much to wrap my head around right now, that he went from one extreme to the other. Thank you both for letting me know that forgiveness is not the first or second step in getting this marriage back on it's feet or on a time line. Right now I am still struggling with clear boundaries. This was a work affair, she still works there (with her husband), but supposedly works nights. I can't get the phone records because it is a work phone. He has giving me a complete access to his phone and emails but he can delete things before I get see it. It was by his laziness that I caught him. If he would have been in another room I would have never saw him sending her texts. I wish I had a magic wand to wave and be over this stage. I am so thankful for this website. It helps me get through some days and makes me feel that I am not crazy at times. Step one was to feel safe. I know I will be okay no matter how this ends. Set two to set up boundaries, I am still working on...

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    5. Amy,
      All of this is a process. You'll take a couple of steps forward, then one or two steps back. But as long as you remain focussed on healing yourself, on establishing boundaries to preserve your safety and respect, you'll emerge from this in a much better place emotionally.
      In the meantime, your husband needs to show you that this transformation isn't some temporary state based on fear of losing you. That he is really willing to take a cold, hard look at how he conducted himself and decide that he does not want to be that man.
      As for the OW at work, I would insist that he avoid her completely. And that, if he runs into her accidentally, that he tells you about it. There needs to be total transparency. You two need to be a team, working to rebuild a marriage. She is NOT part of the team.
      Put forgiveness on the shelf for now. It should never be a "should". We forgive when it becomes clear that our life will be the better for it, not because we're expected to.

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  8. Hi all,
    I can't believe how stupid I am. I contacted the OW to see if I could get some answers, what I got was a woman telling me that I don't know anything about my own marriage, that my H spent years chasing her for sex (which I don't believe) that is was all him, then she said they often didn't use condoms while he promises they did and that she is lying. She told me that I have not taken responsibility for the state of my marriage and neither has my H....like she has any idea. She says she has taken responsibility for her part (who knows or cares) She taunted me about him texting her while we were leaving for vacation and said that she was the one that was alleviating his stress and not me and how does that make me feel. She said maybe our next vacation he will be able to concentrate on me instead of her. He says, he did text her from the airport but not while we were away...who knows what that truth is. She was laughing at me and my pain and then basically said I deserved all the lying she did as I contacted her. What a selfish, arrogant, hateful shrew of a woman she is and I am stupid for contacting her. I really don't know if I can hold much longer. I am in too much pain from this. I don't what I can believe from him.....so many lies, too many to count. Little bits of truth come out here and there while he says that I know everything now.....I don't know if thats the truth. Will trust ever be restored? Will I ever stop thinking about this all day/everyday? Does it really ever get back to a place where you can have a happy life and marriage or is it all a lie that we tell ourselves to get by. Do we tell ourselves that we are happy again. I don't know anymore and I am tired of thinking about this and not knowing what the truth is. How do you start to heal from something if you have no idea if there is more coming. I was in a place where I was feeling somewhat better and had hope and then the massive, giant sized shoe dropped directly on my head and knocked me back to day one, possible worse than day 1. This is the most excruciatingly painful thing I have ever experienced and I don't know what to do, where to go from here, how to react and certainly I don't know what to believe. Like many on here, honesty mean so much to me and I don't see it, how do I believe that he may be finally telling the truth. What signs are there to confirm that I can believe that he is telling the truth. I would have given up my own life for him and its clear that protecting himself from pain is more important to him than my pain or he wouldn't keep lying to me. My next therapy appointment is suppose to be about helping me to get rid of the visions, I am hoping it helps because its all I see and I am tired of it. I am so very tired and just want it to stop.

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    1. Anne,
      I'm so so sorry that this woman who -- let's be clear -- is incredibly damaged has inflicted her pain on you. As we often say, hurt people hurt people. It's exactly why I don't recommend contacting the OW because far too many of them are angry bitter people hellbent on hurting others. However, you don't exactly need me saying "I told you so..."
      What you do need is to extend to yourself some compassion and forgiveness. You went too close to the viper. You got bit. Now retreat and treat the wounds. Curl up in a ball. Sleep. Be gentle with yourself. Give yourself some time for the pain to subside, which it will. Pain is just a feeling, not a fact.
      And then, when the ground beneath you begins to feel a little bit more stable, figure out what's your next right step. No need to figure out final steps...just the next right step. You'll get there, wherever "there" is for you.
      We're right here with you, Anne. Wishing we could kick the OW's ass...but we'll settle for giving you a virtual hug.

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  9. I am for certain that there is no way to know "everything". All the feelings and emotions that our husbands felt really don't apply to us. They were all ".fantasy" and since we weren't there at the time every moment cannot be documented. I'm certain that I would rather not try to delve into his "fantasy" world anyway. One thing I am certain of is me and who I am now. I am just what I believe in myself. Beautiful? Yes some days I feel beautiful. Intelligent? Yes some days it's seen in my work and accomplishments. Caring? Yes it's seen in my friends that surround me. Loving? Yes obviously some one who cannot love cannot forgive. Betrayal is betrayal and that's that. It won't change that it occurred. It only changes what we become. Will we grow into something more beautiful or either into a dying rose. It's our choice. We make decisions to make change happen. When it does we chose to be grateful and enjoy the difference. Our joy is inside us not our spouse. We are something spectacular inside on our own. Love you girls - Ann from Texas

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    1. Ann from Texas, you are one amazing woman. Thanks for that.

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  10. Part 2....wow. OW called me and then sent proof of texts from my H from when we were on a curds together. Apparently they have been texting during most of our vacations. I am can't believe that this is my life. I want to jump off an find another life...one that isn't this. What have any of us done that is so bad that we deserve this. Is it possible that H is so screwed up that he really doesn't remember all this crap that is raining down on me now. What could I have possibly done that is so bad that I deserved this. If it was a lack of sex, why couldn't he have just told me instead of putting me through this shiitstorm. I don't think its something that I can overcome. I have never needed anyone more than i need you all on this site. I don't know that I can cope. You all are the only ones holding me together with your stories and how you have overcome them and learned to cope. I honestly don't know if I can do this anymore. As i sit here in my room in solitude, I think of the rest of you and how you have been strong enough to come through this and I wonder if I am as strong as the rest of you. Is this something I can deal with or should I get out, what new revelations of truth can I possibly take at his point? If it weren't for this site, I think I would have ended my life already but knowing about so many of us that have come through he other side with stories that are actually more devastating as I think mine is has kept me somewhat sane. I find strength in all of our stories and I may possibly be able to find my way through this with every ones help. I love you all and wish i could meet and talk with all of you.

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    1. Anne you have met us my friend. It's ok your so overwhelmed. We have all been there. Month three for me was horrendous. I had not slept or really eaten in weeks and to make it worse month 5 and a half one of the OW grew a conscious and emailed me details and made it start all over. At first she taunted, but realized I wasn't anything she thought I was. I am full of grace and she was full of hate and yuck. My grace shut her up fast. I didn't take her phone call why bother I had enough information. He betrayed me over and over. That's detail enough. Believe me when I say I let him know exactly what I knew and what I thought of every sordid detail right down to my disgust. It's ok your in the shock portion. It took me about 14 months for my body to heal physically enough for my mind to mentally calm down. I prayed a ton so I wouldn't make a complete fool of myself. I did realize the people that judged me the most were the people that had committed the same offense as my husband in some way. They always felt like I was overreacting and I realized they just didn't like the guilt they felt inside. Some of them started telling me their stories and believe it or not we started healing together. All of us. None of them knowing each other made it easier to understand my husband. I cherish all of the people who opened their hearts to me but kept me guarded and didn't take advantage. They are my true friends. Like you guys are. Please pull the song up "beautiful things" by the Gungor band. Also Busted Heart by for king and country. Both these songs helped me work through the absolute pain and shock. Please take care of yourselves and don't give up it gets better. Love you girls - Ann from Texas

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    2. Anne,
      You ARE strong enough. You are stronger than you know. I can so clearly remember telling my therapist that I was sick to death of being strong. That I just didn't have it in me to get up one more time from being knocked down. I was sick of "surviving", I told her.
      You're allowed to indulge in a total pity party. If anyone deserves to just feel like total crap right now, it's you. But don't ever confuse these horrible feelings with your life. Nobody feels one way forever. So go ahead. Cry until you've dehydrated yourself. Wage war with your pillows. Scream horrible profanities about the dirtbag OW and your idiot husband. Empty yourself out. And then take a breath and remind yourself that you are strong enough and compassionate enough to love yourself out of this dark place. That you are just...enough. That THEIR horrible choice has nothing, really, to do with you. That it's about them and their brokenness.
      You will get through this. And when you're on that other side and you look back, you will admire your courage and your determination. And you will be able to truthfully remind others that they, too, will get through.

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    3. Anne,
      1. Remember this OW was dumped on her ass and your husband chose you regardless of the texting. She sounds nasty, revengeful and less than dirt basically not worth your time or effort. She is going to say anything she can to hurt you truth or lie. You were the one who kept your vows, promises and was faithful. You are so much better than her right out of starting gate.
      2. My husband told half truths to me, down played and outright lied his ass off for the first 7 months in an effort to save our marriage, minimize, the damage and he said he was in panic mode. He NOW understands this is not an option anymore and he has one chance left. It took me a year to find out what I now think is the truth. It took him over a year to find out HIS truths selfish asshole.
      3. Your right you don't deserve this, any of this crap. I'm so sorry that you are going through this and I can feel your hurt.
      4. NOW start sorting out what you want. Think and focus on yourself. It was hard for me and I let myself act out in all kinds of way to help my pain and he could either take it and watch me go through the hell of his making or hit the door. One of the most empowering things I did was going into the "I don't give a shit about anything mode because the worst has happened so what is left to hurt me this bad?" I stopped cooking, cleaning up, never even handed him a spoon if I was standing right by it, never picked up towels made the bed, I walked my dog in my neighborhood in my Velcro curlers, refused to cook for our family dinners and spent money on myself on the credit card that is in his name. This was my first step in taking back my life. You are in control, you hold all the cards and you sound like someone who has that rare inner strength, shit you called the OW that alone takes courage and shows you don't take anything by rolling over. You will sort this all out either way if you decide what can live with and what you can't but it does take time, pain and a tremendous amount of self discovery both personal and in your marriage.




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  11. Anne, you most definitely can get through this. And God knows this world needs you. You were so helpful to me when I was in so much pain… And for that I am forever grateful. One exercise my therapist had me do was to make a list of everything that would be better without my husband in my life…she said when I feel overwhelmed at the potential loss of him whether by his choice or mine… That I should read that list and realize in fact there are things that would be better without him. I am not saying you will be without your husband, but it gives you power and strength to realize that life will be beautiful either way. Also, this was very difficult for me, but I did go visit an attorney… For no other reason but to learn and prepare for another possibility. Yes, I cried that day before the appointment and after, however the day after I felt empowered. One night when I was alone and in incredible pain I visualized all the people who love me coming into the room sitting on my bed crowding into the corner and circling around me. I was in that envelope of comfort kindness and love when I drifted off to sleep. As hard as it is, and God knows I know it's hard, you can control your thoughts… And when you are telling yourself I can't do this simply change the thought to I can do this, I can do this. Yes, you are strong, beautiful, and loving… You are an amazing woman. Don't ever forget that. £>

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    1. Melissa,
      What an incredible image -- to imagine everyone who loves and cares about you coming into your room and just sitting with you. Wow. Powerful stuff.
      We, all of us, matter more than we can possibly know. For anyone who's feeling like they need a lifeline, don't hesitate to call a suicide hotline. The people at the other end devote much of their lives to those of us who just don't know if we can get back up. 1-800-273-TALK in the US. Or visit this site to find a suicide hotline anywhere in the world: http://www.suicide.org/international-suicide-hotlines.html

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  12. Anne, Good Morning. I love you. I'm carrying your pain today, along with my own, and I hope it makes your load today a little lighter. On Monday night H said something to me that was so stupid. My first thought was: "did you really just say that to me?" By Tuesday, I was angry about it, as I was unable to shake the stupidity out of my head. By yesterday, I felt RAGE and spent the better part of the day emailing, texting, and calling him with the message of F#$% YOU!!!!!!!!!! It was the stuff of crazy making. It was irrational. What did H say that threw me over the edge? It was this: "Let's hope I can keep it straight." No! One hundred percent no effing way will I be spending my life hoping he "can keep it straight". How about let's hope I can forgive you? How about let's hope I will ever be able to trust you again? How about let's hope you don't come down with Parkinson's? How about we hope for those things?? It was one little sentence that took 2 days of not being able to let go or put down and by yesterday I was in so much rage I couldn't see straight. Last night on my way home I called one of my girlfriends that I did tell about this (another thing that feels really good) and it was good to have her talk me down off the ledge. She told me this feeling will change and I did know that, but when you'e in the moment of it, it feels never ending. If feels as if I'll never feel anything but this torment. She said I will be happy again and this will just be a part of "my story". I understand why H was unable to tell me the entire truth all at one sitting. He was scared. He was scared of everything, but especially scared I would leave. So, in having a lack of courage, it seemed better to have me just discover the truth as I went along. Now, of course he didn't think that through, just like he didn't think through the consequences of sleeping with women around town. It was just unconscious behavior and he didn't take into account that each discovery was for me reinventing the trauma. It's not as if he got caught and then was suddenly enlightened. He was the same man, but now just caught. Anne, this morning I'm not in rage. I have some room to carry a piece of your pain today. I'm hoping that knowing we're all here makes your day a little lighter. Sending love.

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  13. You are all so wonderful to me. I can't tell you how much your words have meant to me especially today. I am still having one of the worst days I have had since DDay but your words give me hope. I am trying to figure out how to let go and start over but its very difficult. Today has been especially bad, I feel despondent and lifeless. My heart feels numb as does my head. I seem to be in a fog and can't climb out of it. Hopefully tomorrow will be a bit better. My husband is going to therapy and wants to change and find out why this has happened along with his anger and anxiety issues. I am hoping that it will help me. My therapist who is also our couples therapist will be trying to help me be able to change my thoughts and visions. V, I am living for the day when I can say I am happy again and that it is just part of my story/history and the future looks bright to me again. Right now all I see is agony though. Thank you all again

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  14. V, you are so special. Your words have made me feel so much better. Thank you for being you.

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  15. Hello all,

    This is long and may require two posts. Please bear with me. It is 4AM where I am and I'm still alive...

    The past three days have been hell. I have written my story a few times on this blog - it keeps changing. HIMSELF is a shape shifter. I was first Anonymous then I was Terry Telephone now I am SilentScream. I yell and scream at HIMSELF but the painful gut wrenching screams are all silent. Today was another DDay. Almost everything I posted about HIMSELF was a lie. He did not have female lovers all over town. He did not have sex with prostitutes. He DID have ONE long term affair partner for about 20 YEARS. He also had a booty call female several times starting in 2011 (he says). Kind of like he was cheating on his long term affair partner. Imagine that shit. The woman I thought was a prostitute because he wrote her personal checks for $75 about 10 times -- she was his long term affair partner NOT a prostitute that he was paying for sex. He did NOT meet her in another town. He met her right here in the town where we live. He met her about 20 years ago. She is married but her husband is not in the picture at all - for a long long time. HIMSELF had sex with this woman in the beginning of the affair in her home. Over the years he had sex with her in her home many times. After sex in her home he always showered in her home shower. He went to her home many times just for lunch or dinner with no sex involved. She is in her late 50’s and has a grown child and little grandchild who also live in the home. During the school year he had sex in her home (on her days off) because her child was at work and her grandchild was at school. When they wanted to go out on a “date” during the school year they went to a high dollar hotel. They went to high dollar residence type hotels for their dates. These rooms are like one bedroom apartments with full size kitchen and all kitchen appliances - even utensils, cookware and dishes, living room, bedroom and bathroom. He purchased food and liquor to take to the hotels for them to spend the evening together. These hotels were paid for by both of them. They took turns paying for the hotels. My detective found many of these hotels stays with HIMSELF preferred customer number for the hotels. What the detective and I did not know was HIMSELF only used his credit card for the times HIMSELF was paying all of the other times his affair partner used her preferred customer card and her own credit card.

    My Mom was sick for one year before she died. I was in another town taking care of her almost 24/7. He has told me that when my Mom was sick he was in regular contact with his affair partner by telephone and when he could arrange it he went to her home and hotels for sex. When my Mom died - HIMSELF was in contact with her regularly by telephone - he refuses to admit that he had sex with her during that time - but - I know he did. When I had hip surgery (twice) he was with her when I was in hospital. Yes, he came to hospital every day in the evening and he was with her several days during the day - IN HER HOME!!

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  16. Part 2

    About a week ago I posted that I freaked out (yelling, screaming and stuff) when HIMSELF told me he confessed to his therapist the reason for his long term affair. He told therapist he got “comfort” from his long term affair partner because I could be a “bitch” sometimes. I could not wrap my head around that “comfort” stuff because I thought he was involved with many women, prostitutes and a very young (25-30 y.o.) long term affair partner. He could have been her father. How does a young inexperienced female give comfort to a 66 year old man?? The “comfort” he was talking about was not the sex part. He explained to me he just felt “at ease” when he was in the hotel room with this young female. That is why I blew my stack. I know now why he felt comfort with his long term affair partner. It was a 50+ yo woman. Someone he could relate to in conversation. They had been together emotionally and sexually for about 20 years. That is almost HALF (50%) of our 44 year relationship. He literally had another “wife”. Yes, he loved her (he denies it). She also loved him. He claims he called her last year after DDay #1 and told her he could no longer see her. HIMSELF claims she said she would be OK and she would survive. HIMSELF claims she said this 2-3 times at least. Well asswipe , what do you think she would say??? You broke her heart just like you broke mine. Two for the price of one. Talk about compartmentalization. This piece of shit was living TWO SEPARATE LIVES.

    Now the $75 you say??? He was helping her with her bills and her utilities and stuff. When he was not able to get cash for her he gave her personal checks. She did not have to ask for the money most of the time HIMSELF tells me -- he just gave it to her when he was with her. When she asked for money and they were not together he went to her home or to the bank parking lot and gave her the check or cash. Now he had been telling me since August 2014 that these $75 dollar checks were payment for a prostitute. Who the hell writes a personal check to a street prostitute - NOBODY. I never accepted that shit but he stuck to the story until a few days ago.

    When I look back at my life I see his “”other life”” somewhat - with access to ALL his check registers and 5 years of credit card records. There she is in black and white. I was completely blindsided & ambushed by the reveal. Don’t think I really knew. The past 3-4 years I felt something was wrong but I was busy living life. I was doing grandkids and regular LIFE. I knew our sex life was few and far between but we are in our 60’s when I started to feel “something” just “something” -- I did not follow up on those feelings. I figured we had a full life with the business and we were both just exhausted at the end of the day. Hell sometimes I felt we were exhausted in the middle of the day. He was certainly exhausted - I wonder why (snark).

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  17. Part 3

    The Viagra that I kept demanding he tell me about -- it was for the long term affair partner. The sex toys I found in the office - yup, for her the 50+ y.o. long term affair partner. Originally he told me it was for me because he wanted to last longer for me. He said he did not use Viagra for the young female because he did not care if she was satisfied as long as he was. What a jerk.

    I was numb when all this came out over a 48 hour period. He gaslighted, lied and in one 8 hour period he told me 2 different versions. I was at the end of my rope. My phone counselor was not available; my therapist office closed for the holiday weekend, the suicide hotline was backed up and kept me on hold for 5 minutes TWICE. I needed someone to talk to. Can you say snapped?? I cut up lots of his clothes and threw them out the front door. I began to break all of the remaining dishes. All of the canned goods and jars of food out the front door. I was not crazy I was psychotic. Literally out of my mind. Crying and yelling. HIMSELF has had another “wife” for 20 years??? What the fuck??? I finally was exhausted and sat down to try calling someone again. I got the suicide hotline to answer this time and they talked me down. They called me back a few hours later to make sure I was going to the Emergency Room to get help. My sanity was saved by this blog. Elle’s many therapeutic essays over many years kept me alive. I read 2010, 2011 and more. Just kept reading. Reading and reading …..

    Someone has got to start a Betrayed Wives HOTLINE !!! 24/7 this phone line MUST be staffed to talk when we NEED to talk. Not one more woman should experience this shit without 24/7 help when SHE NEEDS IT. If I ever get out of this shit, going to get it started. Thinking some crowd funding might help with funds. Ladies, this shit is dangerous. Seriously, I was ready to die. Just did not care. Did not care about my grown kids, grandkids, siblings or anything. What was I doing throwing my food out the front door?? Damn…

    Sorry this was so long. Still downloading and processing. Still alive…

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    1. Silent Scream,

      This truly awful and such a huge betrayal! I've posted this before but hang onto this thought- No one is worth dying for! Absolutely no one. And also that feelings change. Both of these are good thoughts in your darkest hrs. When I learned the horrible truth of my husband's flight attendants, I had very young children to focus on but even then I had to fight off suicidal thoughts. If you can get away for even a few days just to think that might help or ask your husband to leave at least. I honestly think my husband's traveling gave me a way to heal so I didn't have to see his face. This is so much damage. OMG! I hope your therapist can give you some really good advice. Wishing you peaceful moments in your pain and of course strength to find your answers.

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    2. SS,
      I'm almost speechless. I am just so incredibly sorry. And sorrier still that you didn't feel like you had a lifeline when you needed it most. You're right. Nobody should feel so alone and desperate.
      Too many of us have been in that place, where we just can't imagine any other way for the pain to end. But, SS, you are so much stronger than this. And you WILL find a way to transform all this into something powerful and good and that will benefit others. For now, though, wrap yourself in the support and care of all of us who've gone through this and can promise you that you'll emerge on the other side.

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    3. Dear Silent Scream,

      First of all, I am sending you my unconditional love. I am sending you my strength. I am here for you. You deserve the very best life has to offer.

      Your story is heart wrenching. The pain you have suffered is unspeakable. Breaking every last one of your dishes and throwing your food on the front lawn doesn't even begin to relieve your pain. I say do it some more! Throw out every memory of him and never look back. Get your pain out--release it in any way you can (short of murder or self destruction). Every time you release your pain you are healing. Who cares what the neighbors think? The thought of chucking a can of green beans across the front lawn sounds like great times to me! You haven't hurt anyone--you are simply finding a healthy release. And that's okay. Don't hold in your pain and anguish. You are overflowing with grief. Let it all go. Scream and cry until you are slumped over in a heap on the floor. Every release is good for your soul. Don't hold back.

      I wish there were something I could do to help you through this besides writing to you. When you feel alone and hopeless, envision our outstretched arms comforting you, because that really is what we're all doing. We are all pulling for you and each other, and for ourselves. We are all here shedding real tears as we read your story. We are truly feeling your heart. You are not alone.

      Honor yourself in every way—especially in your grief. Don't hold back your pain. Because in doing so, you are loving yourself. You are listening to yourself. You are actually being present in your worst moment. It is excruciating to feel these feelings, but in doing so, you are nurturing your recovery. You are loving yourself.

      Please keep writing. Please stay connected. I am here listening. We are collectively rallying around you, sending you love and strength and comfort in your weakest moment. And, what may seem to be your weakest moment is actually your strongest. You are taking care of yourself by allowing your true feelings to be known. That takes incredible strength.

      As for Himself, I think you should now refer to him as "Asswipe". I couldn't think of a better name for him. At the end of all this, try to remember that Asswipe is the one with true emotional issues--NOT you!! In the end, it's Asswipe who needs to be pitied. You are a remarkable woman. You are in no way responsible for his double life. You have hope--the hope to move forward with your self respect and dignity intact. He has nothing but his miserable, selfish, self-centered emptiness. He will always be plagued with himself.

      I will continue to look for your posts. I will continue to send you love and prayers. I am here.

      Love,
      Merilee

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    4. Merilee,

      Thank you. Two such small words but so very powerful in their smallness.

      ""You have hope--the hope to move forward with your self respect and dignity intact. He has nothing but his miserable, selfish, self-centered emptiness. He will always be plagued with himself."" B YES, YES, YES!!!

      Words mean quite a lot to me because I am a reader. Love to read. I do have hope thanks to all of the extraordinary women here. I am fond of saying to my off-line friends that Elle is an angel with very heavy wings. All of the sister angels here in the BWC keep Elle up when the weight of her wings would pull her down. Thanks to Elle and all sister angels I am alive today!! ALIVE!! Imagine that. Thanks again Merilee for your words of wisdom and strength. I will draw strength from your words.

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    5. Elle,

      Thank you for your words of comfort. I really needed them. When I was at my lowest this "band of sisters" you have created kept me alive -- literally.

      Thanks again :-)

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    6. Pilots wife,

      I am planning a get away. Nothing fancy -- just relaxing and away from HIM. My therapist is OK in a pinch but today at my session I realized once and for all that she is truly clueless. Hands down, 100% clueless. I’ve looked at other therapists and put them on hold because she seemed to understand me - AS I AM. Today I knew I’d cancel all of my future appointments and work with someone else - even if I have to switch again. How in the hell do they get so many degrees and still remain totally oblivious to psychological human trauma. Yet these guys and gals have degrees in psychology!!! YIKES!!!

      Thanks again.

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  18. Silent Scream,
    Oh my God. I am so sorry this is happening to you. I can completely feel your pain and wish I were there to give you a big hug and talk to you. I personally have been near the brink of suicide now about four or five times and have talked myself down most of them and now this site has helped me also the last couple. I honestly don't know how any of us deal with the pain and would like to smash those who believe we should get over it in the mouth with a dose of reality. I completely agree with the 24/7 hotline, it is a fantastic idea, one that I would have and would use. I know this is not over for me and obviously not for you either. I feel for you in a way that can't even explain properly. I wish I could be there to hug you. Please try to think as positive as you can and take care of you.....just you. Spoil yourself. His other life was due to his problems and selfishness and you deserve so much more than what you have been receiving. Lots of love

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    1. Anne,

      One more thing.

      Can you start that pop in the mouth with my therapist?? (no, not really) She told me today that I needed to stop asking questions because I already know enough. Well, A few days ago I did not know HIMSELF had another ""wife"" for almost 50% of our life together. That, I said to her is something I needed to know. And I said if I did not need to know -- I wanted to know. I am sick of surprises. I know I will never know it all but 50% of my life with this jerk he has had another “”wife”” ???? (not married but just saying)

      Consider this. When a plane crashes they send out the investigative team. Here in the US it is called the Transportation Safety Board. They look, slap, peel, sniff, snap, taste, hear, kick, pop the top and literally tear apart the trauma (accident). Then they put all they have learned together and make suggestions on how to prevent the problem from happening again. Well I am in the middle of a huge disaster and I want to look, slap, peel, sniff, snap, taste, hear, kick, pop the top and tear this crap apart until I am satisfied that I know what I need to know to be as safe as possible. I am pretty satisfied now. Today. I may ask another question. Next week or next month or next year I may ask more questions. Nothing HIMSELF was saying made sense. He was talking gibberish and I wanted to translate that crap. I did. It hurt. It almost killed me. I survived -- for now. In time I will be much stronger. How could I not be with a “band of sisters” holding me up. Yikes, that is some mind imaging -- “band of sisters”….

      Delete
    2. Silent Scream, I as well as my therapist would be more than happy to give your therapist a pop in the mouth for saying that to you. As my therapist says to me, I am an information person. I need the information to process. Without my questions being answered, I feel like I am at a loss, things don't add up even with the questions being answered but less so without the questions. We ask as many as WE need to heal. If he doesn't like it, then he shouldn't have cheated. I personally am tired of the "I don't knows" but at least he is willing to try to get the answers for me. For me it was 1/3 of our marriage with a physical affair for a couple of months, then emotional affair for years and a physical and emotional affair for the final 2 or so years. He tells me he didn't love her but he does admit that he told her that he did...how to process that. I have seen texts that appear very loving on his part. Was it not real? Was it fantasy? Was it real? I don't know. I do know that the second I found sufficient information to suspect, he stopped calling her....stopped texting? I don't know. When confronted with what I knew he admitted to an affair but not the extent of it....that was another year of me having to figure it out on my own. He begged for my forgiveness and promised to never have any contact with her again. To my knowledge and constant tracking of him, there has been nothing. He says that he doesn't miss anything about her....truth? Who knows for sure. It appears that he hates her now, at least from the lies he says she has told me and how she has made me feel. He hates himself for what he did. With all that, I still have no real idea why and how this all came to happen and until I know that, I will not be comfortable opening my heart back up to him. I will always fear it will happen again or another shoe will drop. You will only know enough, when you believe you know enough. As my therapist has told me, i will just know. i will get to the point where I don't want to know anything further and it will be a slow process.

      Delete
  19. Silent Scream,
    There are hundreds of us out here, holding you and here to remind you that you are going to be okay, you are safe here, and you are not alone--even though it feels like none of that is ever going to be true.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. MBS,

      Thank you for your words and offering your strength for me to share. I feel the safety here. When I thought there was no one out there for me I was wrong. There was this incredible "band of sisters" here on BWC. No, I can not literally see your faces or touch your hands -but- I can feel the strength in your words. Thank you. Yes, just Thank You!!

      Delete
  20. These words of wisdom were given to me in confidence by a friend. I do not know who originally wrote them and thus can not give credit.

    """First, the OW has no rights. Her feelings and her needs are at the bottom of the trash heap, well below the feelings and needs of the faithful and loving wife/partner. The OW does not deserve a call, a letter or a card to determine her physical or mental state. The OW has known for months, years and sometimes decades that HE was your husband. HE left her bed and returned to you the faithful wife. If your husband has called and told the OW to go away because the affair is over -- then ABSOLUTELY NO MORE is needed - PERIOD. The faithful wife will NO LONGER suffer the intrusion into her life and family.

    GOODBYE Madam Mistress, GOODBYE.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Silent Scream
    I am in shock with your story. My heart goes out to you. Your husband led a double life for 20 years and is maybe this is just the tip of the iceberg?

    I hear your anger and rage and I've got news, YOU WERE RIGHT. I did the same and worse. I could have been arrested. Seriously. I too was desperate to find a therapist. Someone to help me. My family took me to my doc and he immediately sent me to emergency psyche! We'll hang out in that place for a while if you want to see crazy. I said just what they wanted to hear and was released the same day!!! Thank God. Anyway, there's more, good God there's more but the reason for my telling you this is so you don't feel alone. That's how I felt. Alone in my head with my thoughts, some crazy some not so much. But I was sane enough to find a great therapist, psychiatrist and bad ass lawyer. I empowered myself and became a force with which not to be reckoned! And that is my advice to you. Empower yourself. Tread these marital waters very lightly because it doesn't sound like he was much invested in the marriage for all your 44 years. His lies run deep. Are you certain you want him? If so you can make it work but gee you will be starting from square one.

    What I hope for you is to find a great therapist and you are right if you don't think the one you have is getting you move on. When interviewing therapists find one that is very familiar in dealing with infidelity. Not only infidelity in your case but sociopathy!! I truly think your husband is a sociopath. By the way there's great books out there on narcissism and sociopathy. I think your problem is definitely rooted in these areas.

    I wish I were close by you I'd give you a hug and listen. It's awful. A horrendous place to be when your whole life story is erased by some selfish asshole like you, and I include mine too, husband. I'm going on 4 years past DDay. I still hurt but am not raw. I know if one iota of the affair comes out that he didn't tell me I will leave and be just fine. You will get there too. I'm holding you in my heart and in my prayers but please empower yourself. Hugs to you dear one.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Dear Silent Scream,

    Very soon after my first d day I thought about killing myself. I thought the pain was more than I could bear. I felt a bottomless pit in my stomach. I remember I was driving to work and I thought about driving into oncoming traffic. I didn't because of my children. Not because I thought they would be devastated, I don't believe in the afterlife. I believe once ur dead that's it, & I didn't want to deprive myself of seeing them grow up, have families of their own. I want to be part of their lives & I want to see my grandchildren.

    I am a physician and I see so many patients who die of cancer or other illnesses who want to live, as long as I am healthy enough I don't want to throw that gift of life I have been given away.

    There must be something u want to live for too. Although u thought about it, almost went through with it, look how much u tried to get help. That means u don't really want to die. You were desperately trying to find someone to tell u to hold on to hope, that it is not unrealistic to keep loving and hope that things will get better, and they will.

    In one o the many books I read the author said u don't really want to kill URSELF in this situation; u want to kill the pain. I would say that is definitely how I felt.

    On days when I felt the most despondent I went thru this blog. I think I have read every entry. It helped me see I was not alone, others experienced the same feelings of devastation & with time things got better. This website literally saved me.

    You too are not alone. It will get better. Yes what ur husband did was awful. It feels like half your marriage was a lie. You won't believe this for a few years but it wasn't. It feels like everything is tainted now. Again it will take time but u will eventually get past that too. It feels like u don't know ur own husband anymore or urself. U will have to take the time to redefine ur own identity. As for relearning who he is, that is up to him to prove himself & to u whether u even want to give him the chance.

    Sam

    ReplyDelete
  23. Dear silent scream part 2,

    What has also helped me recently is reading. Someone on this site recommended victor frankl mans search for meaning. That started me reading books by and about hilocaust survivors. If they could have hope and survive the camps, then I could surely survive this. Also through these books are often themes regarding good and evil. How even good people can do bad things. How people are not all good or all bad. That many survivors didn't see all Germans as all evil. My husband is not all evil to the core just b he cheated and I am no saint just because I was faithful.

    I also started doing things for me. He cheated because he was selfish. We found each other so early in his sexual life that he felt he was missing something. He felt he owed it to himself to sleep with these women.

    Well I now owe it to myself to take care of my wants and needs, to fulfill my desires (as long as I don't hurt anyone else in the process). You have to start doing that for urself. U Will then start to feel better about urself and recognize that u as an individual matter.

    Even though none of us have met, we all love you.

    Sam

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sam,

      Thanks, I take your words to heart. I have started doing things for myself. HIMSELF is not evil either just plain selfish. SELFISH to the max. SELFISH X 10.

      I have only once talked at length to a Holocaust survivor. I cared for her in hospital. She needed back brace but the technician who measured for brace looked exactly like one of the guards in her camp. She had to stay in hospital few extra days but we did find someone to measure her. She was really a brave and determined lady.

      Thanks for the love. I need all I can get right now.

      Delete
    2. My heart expands when I read you holding each other in your thoughts. Sam, that's really incredible what you wrote. And I know you've had your own struggles but you seem to have come to a point where you seem centered and focussed on what really matters to you. It feels good, doesn't it?
      And SS, you'll get there. You're such a fighter in the best possible way. You will fight your way out of this hell and, like Sam said, you'll be able to survey the past from a different vantage point. Just stay focussed on the incredible gifts you have to share with the world. Take stock of everything you've done in your life. Nursing is no small thing. You've touched people who I bet you don't even remember...but they remember you.
      All that is real. YOU are real.

      Delete
  24. Amazing Silent Scream

    I must have missed this thread of posts (I just read your recent torments).....my heart goes out to you with such deep respect and affection. I was also stunned by the reality of my husband, having a "second wife"...for years......and years......and years....(for my entire marriage up until the "Discovery.") Oh, the agony of such a dark revelation. I'm crying as I write. May I stand next to you and share your burden try and wade somehow..... through this trail of tears....to a road of hope built by all these beautiful responses and among the amazing women here.

    Big Love
    Val


    ReplyDelete
  25. Silent Scream--I worry about you, NOT because you are weak, you are ANYTHING but, I worry about you because I don't know how you are. I know it's only been a few days but please check in. Val-I missed "your" thread that you are going through much the same. I am speechless sometimes, and this is where I offer just an ear and a hug from a distance. I am just hoping you are both OK.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Steam,

    Thanks I am doing well because of people like you! And I was happy to see Silent Stream show up in the most recent post...

    I still can't find the right words to express my experience of finding out that my husbands had a parallel life for decades....it's beyond being speechless.

    Again thank you and much love to all
    Val

    ReplyDelete
  27. This post really spoke to what i'm feeling right now. I worry that I am expecting something unreasonable from my husband and our 'new' marriage. I don't know anymore what to trust with my feelings. We have been married for almost 27 years (23, when the 2 year affair started) and have been together for 32. It has been 19 months since D Day and we have had many good days, weeks, months. But I also have had many doubts creeping in. Mostly questions about if he is really happy with our marriage. Did he make the choice because he had too much to lose, or because he really wants to be with me. It isn't even about her, it is about whether he feels fulfilled with our relationship. It is hard to believe that he can be happy giving up the excitement of the affair, the passion he felt in the 'new' relationship; that he can be happy with the comfort and stability of our relationship and not feel something missing. When a person is in an affair, they feel a high, like a drug. They feel passion for that person, they are getting to know them and showering them with compliments and being showered with compliments back. How do they forget that feeling and go back to the person who has always been there for them but lacks the newness and passion? We just got back from a 2 week tropical vacation, just the two of us. We had a lovely time, we even had spontaneous sex every day. It was nice but I still had the doubts creeping in. When we were enjoying a drink at happy hour, I found myself wondering if he were here with her, what would he be like. Would he be all over her, unable to keep his hands off her. When we were silent enjoying the view, I found myself wondering what would they be talking about. He was relaxed and reserved on our vacation. I know he wanted to spend time with me and do what i wanted, but in the past he would have been more active, wanting to boogie board or ride the waves, which i usually didn't do. When i suggested the boogie boards he brought them one day but left them in the car. Maybe it was because he thought i was only suggesting it for him and he didn't think i wanted to do it. But the doubts crept in making me wonder if I was holding him back. If he felt he couldn't be himself and do what he wanted with me. I found myself thinking that if he was with her he would be out there showing off in the waves for her. Maybe taking her out there with him. I feel like I had an idea of how he would be with her and I wanted him to be like that with me; to find that passion with me. After 19 months, I would think I would be having less of these doubts, not more. I find myself doubting if he really is happy in our marriage or if he is just living a lie and telling himself he wants to stay married to me. I love him and I want our marriage to work. We have a good relationship, we care about each other, we have grown up together and would do anything for each other, but I feel for him he thinks something is missing, which is why he had the affair. Now that he's tasted that something, and not her, but the feelings from the affair, does he want more of that, does he feel what we have is boring. Maybe we know each other too well, there is no mystery. SR

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SR,
      As TryingHard wrote below, this is a pretty common phase we go through. It's like once the dust has settled from the storm, we're left...flat.
      I can't help but wonder what he's saying about your doubts. I think too often, as TH says, we project all our thoughts into their heads. And then we ask...and the truth is nothing like we imagined. It's true for the affair itself (which so so often is NOTHING like a romantic sex romp we think it is) and it's certainly true for our relationship post-infidelity.
      Talk to him. Tell him how you're feeling. Trust that he'll be honest with you and that, even if he is missing the rush of an affair, that you can handle hearing that. My guess is that you, too, would love a certain rush in your life, you're just too clear-headed to have an affair to achieve it. Talk about how you can create that in your marriage, if that's an issue. Or talk about what you need from him as you struggle with these doubts.
      You can look at this as a rift in your marriage...or you can use it as a way to draw yourselves closer. We often want a honeymoon with this "second marriage to our first husband". But familiarity changes things. Ask each other what you want out of life. Talk to each other. Be vulnerable with each other. Risk your hearts with each other.
      It's terrifying. I KNOW how scary it is. But I also know that it's in those moments that my husband's and my relationship has deepened.

      Delete
    2. "Risk your hearts with each other." Those are powerful words and even more powerful actions, but REALLY FRIGHTENING. As my husband opens his heart to me a little more each day, I have been considering taking baby steps in this direction. OMG is it scary! So much so that it can be paralyzing. I know this needs to be the next step if any of us ever want to actually feel anything in life again, but the thought of being hurt and vulnerable after what we’ve suffered can certainly be overwhelming.

      I guess the bottom line is that no one can swim with only one toe dipped in the water. Eventually we all need to immerse ourselves if we are to live a full life. But there are no guarantees we won't be hurt again. In fact, we just need to know and accept going in that we will be hurt again. We also need to know without a doubt that we are strong enough to handle it. Hopefully we will not be hurt in the same way, but the truth is that human beings are far from perfect and, therefore, our relationships are perfectly imperfect. I guess it's life’s imperfections that make it so worth living.

      Delete
    3. Merilee,
      I wholeheartedly endorse every word you just wrote.
      It is scary. And it can be so tempting to stay wrapped up tight. I did that. And it might have protected me from something...but I know it prevented me from also feeling anything else. If you shut off the potential for pain, you shut off the potential for joy.
      And you're right. Having been hurt so profoundly, our hearts and brains are in survival mode, which includes shutting out any potential to be hurt by that same person again.
      Which is what makes rebuilding a marriage so tricky but potentially so healing.
      We will be hurt again. Not necessarily by infidelity but by tiny slights, large misunderstandings. And we will hurt others. That's a part of relationships.
      And it's the cost of opening our hearts. But the price we pay for keeping them closed is a bleak life.

      Delete
    4. Elle
      This is exactly what my therapist told me!! Oh yes I work very hard a being brave and vulnerable and try to dismantle that brick wall. I will take some bricks down and the something scary occurs to me or even happens and back up the bricks go!!! So freaking frustrating! But yes, if you don't allow yourself to be vulnerable to pain you will miss the joy too.

      Delete
  28. SR
    I know exactly what you're saying. Wouldn't it be nice if we had a brain can opener. We could just pop off the top of their heads and see what's really going on in there? What he's really thinking about.

    I think what you are doing, and I do it too, is projecting your own fantasies on to him. We interpret their affair according to our romanticized experiences. I'd be willing to bet he is exactly where he wants to be and is thanking his lucky stars you gave him another chance. Look if he realllly wanted to be with someone else and I mean really deep down wouldn't he be there? Sure they have a lot to lose and they sure didn't consider it during the affair and why? Because they truly believed they wouldn't be caught. The last thing they wanted more than the passion and sex and excitement was for us to find out. Once we did it's like the pin went in their little balloon fantasy. All the air went out with all that excitement etc. but I know exactly what you are saying. I do it too. I will tell you it can drive you mad those thoughts. You have got to figure out a way to push them out of YOUR head now. You've got to find your inner strength and truly believe it is you he wants and not her or any other her. He's a big boy. I'm sure you've shown him the door and where his suitcases are if that's what he wants. He's free to go right? So I believe if he's there it's because he WANTS to be there for whatever reason and if he's showing you by his actions and deeds that it's YOU then have a little faith and try to believe it for yourself, not him.
    Lately I've been struggling the whole sex thing. Our sex life is pretty good and the sex part never really came into my mind. I know how to please and be pleased but lately I've been struggling with the demon insecurity sexually. I don't know why all of a sudden it has started to bother me. It's weird the thoughts that get in your head that are not rational. Sometimes I feel I am truly going mad. My heart is broken and continues to break. My son has just recently been very cruel to me. I feel as if I must be easy to be cruel to and tossed aside, including from my own son whom I believe is trapped in a miserable relationship AGAIN!!!!

    This reconciliation is no easy feat. Once you think you are crawling out from it something else rears its head and drags you back in. Most the time it's our own selves. The key is to stay strong and know your own worth and value. Don't sell yourself short. Hold tight to the idea that he is there because being with YOU is what HE wants. He almost lost his diamond when playing with glass!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. TH,
      It's hard to not let everything else in our lives be coloured by how we perceive ourselves re. the affair. It gets easier...but I know early on, I found myself crippled by otherwise small things. A friend cancels lunch last minute and I would fall apart, feeling worthless and easily tossed aside. A child would stomp her feet and offer up the "you're not my best friend!" and my heart would break. When we're already feeling so fragile, even the smallest slights feel devastating.
      That's when we need to practice radical self-care and kindness.
      And trust that our perspective does return eventually. In fact, I'm far less quick to make assumptions or judgements, having gone through what I did.

      Delete
  29. Trying Hard, thiis excellent advice and I think you are right on the money.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Like so many of you, I am so thankful I just stumbled upon this today. I've spent my entire day reading this blog and all of the comment from women who have felt and said exact things that I've felt. It's so comforting to know you aren't alone! My Dday was January 30th, 2015. My husband and I are both young.. 27... Married and had kids young.. Our daughter is 5, our son turned a year old in January. We've had our share of ups and downs being young parents but I've always felt that no matter what he was a good person and would always love me. It wasn't until late November I felt that had changed. I had spent the last year with a new baby, breastfeeding and focusing on being a mom, and not giving any effort to my marriage. I was co-sleeping with our son so my husband and I went a year without sleeping in the same bed. We would go weeks without kissing or hugging or even saying i love you. We were just existing together. I knew I wanted things to be different but I felt like if he cared he would try first. I see now that I can be stubborn but so is he. I knew we were having problems but in November it was like a light switch flipped and he woke up everyday hating me. No matter what I did or said he was cold. I felt deep down something could be going on but had no proof or anything other than his behavior to be suspicious about. He got a new phone that month and had the fingerprint lock to get in it... I told him that was weird and he just said he did it because it was a neat feature. It was the first time in our relationship I didn't have any access to his phone. As December and january came and went it seemed like things were getting worse.. We started saying to each other why are we still doing this if we are both unhappy? I told him go if you want to! He never would.. But still treated me so cold. (Continued..)

    ReplyDelete
  31. Continued #2

    One day he never came home from work.. I just figured ok he finally decided to take time away... But by the next day of not hearing from him I decided to check the phone records and saw he had been talking to a number that week for a significant amount of time. (80 min or more) my best friend, who always tries to keep me sane and talks me out of craziness, did help me try to figure out this number. It ended up being linked to a girls Facebook page that H works with. I wanted to confront him face to face but my blood was boiling... I text him and told him I knew about her. All he said to me was "I'm sorry for everything, I'm less of a man now than I've ever been. I'm sorry we will talk in person". He wanted to come home the next day and even tho i wanted answers I didn't want him there. I tried to force things out of him.. He admitted they had been talking since November.. Had slept together 3 times.. And he doesn't know if he wants to be in an unhappy marriage. I was devastated. Just like most of you I felt pain deep into my soul. This girl was 23 with no kids... I just had my second baby a year ago...and I was 50 pounds heavier. As vain as that is, it just added to my pain that she was pretty. She was tan with long dark hair...she looked like me a year ago... We could be sisters...But for some reason she was now better than me... The more I pushed H to give me details, the less he wanted to give. It ate at me constantly. It was the only thing I could think about every day all day. I have a very close relationship with his parents and sister so I told them everything going on. When i wouldn't allow him at home he expected his parents to let him stay there, but after knowing what he had done they told him that if he was going to be that kind of person then they couldn't allow him to come there. I felt so much comfort knowing I had so much support from his family, but it only made him act more cold to ME. He thought his family should just accept him as a liar and a cheater who just ruined his children's lives.

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  32. Continued #3

    He was forced to stay with his grandparents in the mean time and after I had let him know exactly how I felt about everything i stopped speaking to him unless it was about the kids. I did go through every roller coaster of emotion... And had several crazy days. My friend and I figured out that the OW had blocked me from Facebook and my phone number. I had no way of contacting her and I had this desperate need to tell her how I felt, and how disgusting she was. Finally after leaving her several voicemails from another number she decided to text me. She tried to tell me that she knows I'm hurting and she's sorry for that.. And no one grows up wanting to fall in love with a married man but it just happened. I told her no one grows up dreaming about being married with a family and having a home wrecker walk into their marriage. I said everything I could think of at the time...and she told me she was under the impression H and i haven't even had sex in months. I told her as special as she thought she was that wasn't the case, even through our problems we still did occasionally. She acted as if SHE was hurt. The nerve! And I asked if she could sit there and really say she thought she loved someone after 3 months and very few interactions.. Someone who is unfaithful and would do this to his children. She said "can you? I figured if it wasn't me it'd be someone else". As if she was doing me a favor by stepping in and being my husbands mistress. I had unleashed some of my anger on her and also let her know that she is nothing I'm not, and I've already had the best that H has to offer..a house, new cars, his children, he MARRIED me, he has nothing left to give her and his family will never accept her. She at one point told me i look pathetic for calling her and for wanting H back after what he did. I told her I may look pathetic to you but you both look pathetic to the world. The conversation went on for awhile but it ended with her telling me I deserve better and she doesn't know if she wants H at all and blah blah. It didn't take but probably the next day for her to decide that she did really want to be with him. So I tried to tell myself that was all I needed and I can start to heal.. Or try to. I didn't talk to H unless I was dropping the kids off or picking them up. Thanks to stress I had lost 40 pounds and started putting my strong face on when I did see him, hiding the fact that my heart was shattered. It took 2 weeks for him to start trying to find ways to talk to me or pop over. He had been telling me "I'm so sorry I wish I could take it back" almost everyday since I found out but I kept my distance. One day he showed up and asked if we could take the kids to chuck e cheese and talk. I said no but later gave in. It was that day that he cried and said how sorry he was and how nothing was ever worth losing his family.. He would do anything.. Had already cut OW off..I could have his phone any time.. Deleted his Facebook..block her number.. Change his number.. Go to counseling. He said that he knew the problems were there and that instead of looking for love and affection elsewhere he should have put that energy and effort into us... And it made him realize that he could never love someone the way he loves me.. He could never have that connection with anyone. He had also showed me his phone .. The conversation between Him and OW of him telling her never to contact him again he was going win back his wife.. That it was a mistake and he could never love anyone the way he loved his wife and he's sorry if he ever made her believe otherwise. She was pissed to say the least.. But hasn't tried to make any contact since then. As good as it felt to win the battle over the whore, I told him I don't know if I could ever forgive him.

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  33. Continued #4

    So I rode it out.. Took it one day at a time.. He began to show effort that I hadn't seen in years. Show up with presents...grab my hand while I'm cleaning the kitchen and would ask me to dance. I could see the guilt and remorse...But one other thing I demanded was he answer every question I had. So he did. And it stopped eating at me, but it gave me more to play out over and over in my head. I thought it was what I needed but the truth really does hurt. He has continued to try and improve our marriage and I'm trying my best to forgive... But I struggle everyday . I struggle with the visions of them together...and things that were said... And I don't know why but I feel that I need the world to somehow see for their own eyes that it's ME he loves. I guess that could be my insecurities...
    But Instead of thinking about it all day , sometimes it's only a couple times. Small progress. I still find myself wanting to write her and say some of the things I forgot to the first time...and justify why I'm not pathetic for forgiving my lying cheating husband because marriage is sacred to me, and so is the family i want for my children...but she doesn't deserve that and I know it won't help anything. I also check her Facebook every so often (because for some unknown reason she unblocked me) I don't think that's helping me either.... but This site and all of your stories have given some relief to the ache i still feel! Thank you all for sharing! And sorry for the typos and the numerous posts but it felt good to get it out!

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    Replies
    1. Hey! I'm glad you found us...and that you shared your story. You'll likely have read so many stories that sound like yours. I hope that gives you some comfort.
      It sounds as if you're doing really great. You're strong, you've got incredible support and you've got such clear boundaries around what you will and will not tolerate. We could all learn a lot from you!
      I would urge you to stop checking the OW's FB at all. She's poison. Avoid her. You have nothing to gain.
      Focus on you, your kids and rebuilding your marriage. I think you're going to be just fine as long as you and your husband recognize just how crucial it is to talk about things before they become crises.

      Delete
  34. To all above my love goes OUT TO YOU all (amazing women)

    The phrase we have used regarding truth telling (and it's a rocket ride) because it's completely different now but we are:

    Willing to be "Disturbed."

    (can't remember who said that)

    but my husband and I bring every fear and shadow into the room in front of us. I had to however learn not to blow him up (reverse PTSD) and help him because he "hates anger" directed at him. Bit tricky since I like to blow things up when enraged.

    I tell him when those shadow thoughts creep in daylight or in dreams...those existential fears of creeping "other women." They may come occasionally forever...doubts. It is frightening but I believe the truth heals and from what happened you can never kill me again!

    Trying hard said it and so did my husband repeatedly when I'd doubt (his or my own best interests) if these men really wanted to be with someone else they would be. And so would we.

    Love
    Val

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  35. Thank you for your reply Elle! I am so thankful for this site you created and it's so comforting to read about others who have been through this! i have amazing friends that I've confided in and have helped me through the darkest days. Calling and texting me daily.. Supporting every choice I've made and reminding me that I can and will get through this...but at 27.. Married with children is rare in our big circle.. A few of our friends are married and very few have children..none of these good friends have experienced this like all of you have.. So i can't tell you how much It helps to connect with people who have my exact thoughts! I am addicted to this site.. I have spent so many hours in the last couple days here (not getting much housework done) but I'm grateful. Hang in there everyone, better days are coming! Hugs xoxo

    K

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    1. Hi k,
      Like you this site was my saviour in the early days, I would spend hours reading and responding, this site was and still is my therapy. I am 20 months out and I can relate to all you have been through and are currently going through. Time is a great healer, you sound like you are in control of the situation ( as much as you can be) and that will stand you in good stead for tomorrow and the day after. I'm pretty certain that with hard work and commitment from your h you will reinvent a marriage that you deserve. You will be just fine, your a strong lady. And your h is the lucky one to be given a second chance. Sending you lots of love.

      Sam

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  36. Thank you Elle. In fact all this rejection has given me a ton of strength. I know I'm a good person, I know I have a lot to offer everyone, I know in my heart I have the best intentions but can sometimes be perceived as not so. Doesn't make it any less true. Sometimes we can be too good to people. I think that has been my problem in the past. To those to whom we've been too good and have decided we need to draw boundaries, well they get a littttle testy right :) I guess my point is if someone doesn't appreciate it and wants to cut me out of their life, well so be it. That's not to say I don't look at myself and think WTF :)

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    1. Parenting guru Barbara Coloroso has been instrumental in helping me understand boundaries and what she calls "countermoves". Any time we change the "rules" (ie. by starting to insist upon respect, for instance), we can expect countermoves, usually in the form of some sort of tantrum, even a quiet one. Of course, the countermove is designed -- whether consciously or more likely unconsciously -- to get us to back down. To go back to the way things were when we were doormats. Not gonna happen. But by anticipating the countermoves we can see them for exactly what they are and not engage in them.
      Coloroso was talking about dealing with kids...but I've discovered her methods work as well with unhealthy adults. Once, for example, I was able to see my mother-in-laws nasty little comments as countermoves, I was able to stop taking them personally and see them a mini temper tantrums because I was establishing boundaries with her and she didn't like it. What a Eureka moment that was. Changed my whole relationship with her. I was able to even like her once I stopped seeing her as the enemy and started seeing her as a messed up person with plenty of issues and no healthy way to deal with them.

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    2. Elle, I think this would make a great post. Boundaries are so important to establish love for ourselves and begin new lives with our husbands.

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    3. Merilee Lane,
      H'mmm...I thought I had but when I do a search, I noticed that I only reference this stuff in the comments, not the post itself. So...thanks for the suggestion. I'll get to work on it.
      In the meantime, this one's from a good and brilliant friend of mine:
      http://betrayedwivesclub.blogspot.ca/2009/11/guest-blog-b-is-for-boundaries.html

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  37. "I learned slowly it's okay to express needs and state limits but to remain flexible in changing or evaluating. Real intimacy and personal growth are validated through the boundaries we set. I wish I had discovered this news-to-me fact years ago...but hey, it's never too late to learn. I’m still a work in progress." These are words to live by.

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  38. Elle

    Hey this is interesting. That's EXACTLY what it is. They know Good Ole TryingHard and that she will bark loudly and then back down!!! Yep things will go back to the way they were. I've never heard of Countermoves but that is def what my family does to me. Can you explain what some of the countermoves are? My H is a PRO at his countermoves against my boundaries. I've found the most effective way of thwarting his counter moves is to remain silent. It kills him. He can't stand not knowing what I'm thinking. Or I have a really snarky way of saying Unh hunh.....

    My therapist told me I needed to be more assertive. I cannot tell you how my family reacted when I told them that!! She explained there's a big difference between being assertive and just showing and verbalizing anger. Say what you mean and mean what you say, OR speak softly and carry a big stick?? I'm pretty sure by being more assertive she meant draw those boundary lines. Jesus God I've drawn so many friggin boundary lines I'm running out of ink!!!

    Anyway I love this countermove theory. If you could steer me in the right direction with regards to and books or articles on this let me know. Love it, thanks ladies. You women here are GENIUSES!!!!

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    1. TH,
      Yep, there's a huge different between assertive and aggressive. Assertive is standing in our own power, aggressive is demanding the other person concede power.
      Colours talks about countermove in what she terms the "three cons". I once wrote them down and put them my fridge so that when my kids were doing it, it would remind me to just calm down and realize that they were just trying to get me to back down and let them have a cookie, watch TV or whatever. By simply staying, calmly and firmly, "no", eventually they realized I wasn't going to back down.
      The three "cons" are:
      •weeping, wailing, begging, bribing, gnashing of teeth
      •anger and aggression
      •sulking
      Most people have their favourite "con". I know I tend to sulk when I'm not getting my way. My husband gets angry. And often we've been sorta "trained" to respond. For instance, when we used to get angry, I would get angry back (because his anger scared me) and we would get into an argument and, eventually, I would back down. Now I'm able to simply say, "I won't discuss this if you can't speak to me respectfully" and it diffuses the situation. Works with husbands, works with kids. But the BIG bonus is mostly that you RECOGNIZE what's happening as a "con" and that it's nothing personal.
      Does that help? I will try and write a post about it.

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    2. Incidentally, the book is called Kids Are Worth It! but it's a great book to learn about dealing with any difficult people in your life. It's all about boundaries and self-respect.

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  39. We were grocery shopping yesterday and he was hyper and kept picking fight this in the store. He wouldn't listen and I was so frustrated that I started dropping F bombs in the store and that's something I don't do...well in public. I know that I've dropped more F bombs at home to when we're alone.

    Thanks for this article. It helped me to put things in perspective.

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