Thursday, February 9, 2017

Acknowledging His Pain Too

"Being half anywhere is the true definition of loneliness."
~Mark Nepo, The Book of Awakening

It's tough to stomach when you're sitting in a therapist's office, your guts spilling out onto the floor, your heart shattered, your life in ruins, and your husband suggests that he's hurting too.
HE'S hurting? Well, cry me a goddamned river. He's the one who lobbed this grenade into your life. He's the one who lied and cheated and stomped all over your heart. You wouldn't be in this bloody mess if it wasn't for him.
He hurts too? Well, too damn bad. He's not going to get any sympathy from you. No way. Never. 
Never came sooner than I thought it would.
Never came when I had triaged my own wounds enough to be able to look around and notice that he was bleeding too. At first, there was some satisfaction in this. I kinda enjoyed knowing he was in pain. In fact, I thought I could use that pain to keep him in check. As long as I kept reminding him of what he'd done to me – to us, including our children – I could assure myself that he'd be less likely to do it again. I wanted that pain to feel fresh, to sting. To act as a check on any impulses he might have to cheat again.
That was a mistake. 
My husband didn't cheat because he wasn't hurting enough, he cheated because he was hurting too much and didn't know how to deal with it. He cheated because the only way he knew how to manage the constant ache of loneliness he felt was to distract himself from it.  Sort of like how we dig our fingernails into our palm to distract from dental work. 
It took time before I could listen to his pain without trying to trump it with my own. In the early days post D-Day, I couldn't. I was drowning in my own pain and didn't much care if the water was rising for him too. And that's fair. At first, it's all we can do to keep our heads above the waves. We absolutely must tend to our own wounds first
But the time comes, especially if you want to rebuild your marriage but even if you don't, when it matters that you notice his pain too. It matters because it's in that compassion that your healing accelerates. By realizing that others hurt too, our own pain becomes less isolating. It becomes part of the human condition. Others' pain doesn't eclipse our own, it makes our own a bit more bearable. But only when we're each able to hold the others' pain as well. Minimizing, dismissing or playing the pain olympics just keeps us locked in our own silos. 
And remember this. His pain isn't an excuse for cheating. It doesn't, for even a micro-second, mean that what he did was okay. But it does point us toward understanding. And it further makes clear that his cheating wasn't about us. My husband was lonely. An existential loneliness that defined much of his time. It was a loneliness he'd felt much of his life, courtesy of a cold demanding mother. But his loneliness wasn't my fault nor was it my responsibility to fix, even if I'd known he was feeling it.
When our marriage hit a rough patch – young kids, stressful career, competing ambitions – he responded the way he'd learned as a kid. Focus on something else. Get involved in risky behaviour. Seek out sex to self-medicate. 
By understanding that he was in pain too I'm able to empathize. We were both hurting. I responded differently – not by cheating but by stewing in my resentment and treating him like an annoying child. But I came into our marriage with a different set of coping skills, with a different history. The day I was able to accept that if I was him, I might have chosen a similar path, was the day that my own heart began to feel whole again. And, incidentally, when we're able to have compassion for others, it's so much easier to have it for ourselves.
There's no rule that you ever have to acknowledge your husband's pain too. And lots of guys make it even harder by dragging us through further humiliation and pain, by continuing to lie and call our own sanity into question. Without genuine remorse and sincere determination to come clean and figure out how to move forward with honesty and integrity, lots of these guys don't deserve a second chance. But whether or not you make the choice to rebuild a marriage with someone who does deserve that second chance or move on without him, recognizing that hurt people hurt people can light your way forward. 
It can soften your heart enough to realize that compassion is not a finite resource. The more we offer, the more that's available to us. 

47 comments:

  1. Elle
    Interesting post as last night, while explaining a major trigger for me, I'm fairly certain I created pain for my h., not intentionally but nevertheless I could see his pain in his eyes and the quietness of the remainder of the evening. His cow even used the pain factor in the beginning by trying to force a meeting face to face for closure in her words and she didn't care if t came as we are all three hurting. Two years past her jail date and many drive bys later, I feel like I'm past the worse pain but the triggers can make it feel fresh for us both. We ended the night by losing ourselves with sex and sleep. He left for work and I'm here looking for a way to move through the fresh pain and I feel like just acknowledging that he too felt pain/shame by my explanation of that trigger. I was explaining how I feel, that shaky uncontrollable heart rushing almost drowning sensation. I felt calmer, I thought by being able to express this feeling but it apparently left him in a different kind of pain. We didn't over talk, I didn't have a meltdown from it, I just tried to explain it. I fully understand that my h feels pain from his choice to have the affair but really for the most part he just feels relief that she no longer is emotionally blackmailing him. He expressed that from the beginning. Thanks for this post, it's given me a means to process this stage of our healing and how we differently are living through our pain.

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    1. Theresa, Understanding that this is painful for him isn't the same as censoring yourself or ignoring your own pain. I know you know that but just wanted to put it out there. But it can help each of you feel less alone in your pain when you know the other is suffering too.

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  2. My husband was a mess. I was hurting bad but, I think he was really hurting more for the mess he created. Sometimes he would just break down and sob. He became someone that he always said he would never be and he hard time even believing that he did this. It's still a long process of recovering from this but I think that we finally have a handle on it. It also helps that we don't live anywhere near her and we were able to go someplace new to start over.

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    1. My husband did likewise. He loathed himself for what he'd done. And while I took some satisfaction in that at first, I came to realize that self-loathing wasn't moving him forward either.

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  3. Theresa,
    I also hate that sometimes sharing my pain with my H causes him to feel pain. Sometimes it just has to happen that way I think to move forward. The more times we have this type of exchange and come through it, it at least shortens the next time in duration and intensity usually. If I hide/bury my pain it comes out later in a worse way (which hurts us both more). If there is an affair on a movie or tv show now, my H just grabs my hand, looks me square in the face, and tells me how much he loves me and feels lucky to have me. That keeps me from having to enter into a conversation later most of the time. Like a preemptive reassurance session. I will tell him the same and we can avoid the trigger together sometimes. I like that much better, but it can't always happen that way. Sometimes we just have to talk and I have to hurt in front of him and he has to do the same with me and we both have to understand.

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  4. This is so timely for me. I just had a conversation with my husband this morning where I brought up a question about details of the physical aspect of the affair and how he felt at that time. You would think I already know enough, right? My husband told me that there are some details he just doesn't remember but that rehashing the details of what he did makes him want to vomit.
    We're approaching two years out. There hasn't been anything he's refused to talk about since very early after the full truth came out. He's always answered me even if he asked beforehand if I was sure it wouldn't make it worse. Often, he's been right on that the details didn't help and did, in fact, just make it worse. I wish I wasn't the person who needs to know every. single. thing.
    So I dredged up old stuff. I forced both of us to remember what kind of person he was during his affair. And now here I am realizing I'm asking him to recall actions and feelings that are completely contrary to the way he is now and the way he lives his life. It's painful for him and I don't even know what purpose I thought it would serve. Maybe still hoping I would get that magic answer that explains how in the hell he could have blown our lives up... I know there is no magic answer. And I know he was in a very bad place. I also know he's no longer in that place and that he works every day at being a better person.
    Time to shift my focus. Think more about today and less about yesterday or two years ago. I realize as I'm writing this that I've overextended myself in the past few weeks. My working out has dropped off and I'm failing to do the things I need to do to take care of myself . It's reminiscent of the time during the affair but this time it is my own doing. I guess he's not the only person I need to show compassion to.
    Thank you, Elle, for this post.

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    1. Dandelion,
      It's interesting that you notice that you've been being hard on yourself and overextending yourself. I've noticed in the past too that it's when I'm feeling resentful about things I've agree to or feeling down about things that I would sometimes look for a reason to get in an argument. It took my husband pointing it out to me and literally asking me to please leave him out of it for me to see what I was doing. Self-care is ongoing.

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    2. Dandelion, I could have written your exact post. At almost 20 months out I find that I still have so many questions about "why in the hell did you think it was such a good idea to blow up my/our life" you asshole. (insert a long line of cuss words here and you get the picture) He just says that until he read George's book about Compulsive Sex, had therapy, did a mindfulness for additions class, read a bunch, cried a bunch and read a bunch more that he didn't even know he had a script running in his head. He just believed everything in his head and went with it. He has no explanation and says there is no excuse, no explanation, nothing he could say to justify any one of his events. He feels terrible about them and when I fly out of control it brings up all that shame again. He says he does not want to think about or relive any second of his past. He has put it out of his mind and he is only living today. I see how much happier he is and I want that too but I have a much more difficult time with that. Working on myself all the time. I have a lot of success then a big failure.

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    3. Dandelion and BG...love your posts. I am 18 mos out. My husband is really working hard and reading what you said about making them go back to remember that terrible time really spoke to me. I have told him that part of the difficulty for me is seeing it everywhere and sometimes feeling like he doesn't get that or experience that. It is not because he is not remorseful or doesn't care, it is because he is not that person anymore. I asked him once if he ever thought I deserved better than him. He said he doesn't think that now because he has been working non-stop to be the husband I deserve and more. He told me, " the sad part is it is not hard to be that husband, so why wasn't I before?" Just hearing that made me realize he has changed. I feel I am looking forward more often now instead of behind. I am making progress! Sending strength and hope to all my sisters here.
      Farmwife

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    4. Last time something came up that I had to ask about and dive back into the physical details a bit turned up an interesting thing for me that I've been thinking over and looking at for a while. After the dust cleared and we spoke about how different our marriage is now and how hard it is for him to revisit his actions during that period of time he said, "I like who I am now. I'm the person I was before and after this. That's the real me. So looking at that other guy is hard." This gave me a great deal of comfort, but I couldn't figure out why until I realized that, on some level, I was assuming that being married to me was "hard" for him and that he was putting in tons of effort to keep himself from sleeping with everyone he passed on the street or something. Like he was sacrificing something to stay married to me. After he made that statement, I became aware that he views this life as much easier, better, where he wanted to be all along. I told him how I was assuming he felt and he was surprised that I would even think that way. I was equally surprised that he couldn't see that OF COURSE I imagined that truth just based on what he did. Interesting, comforting, and confusing for me. I don't think I've ever found myself acting in a way so opposite of what I want in life. It does make me feel some compassion for him. How low must a person be to turn their backs on themselves so completely? I was concentrating on how he turned his back on ME, so I wasn't considering that at all.

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    5. Ann
      My h and I have had similar discussions and he doesn't want to be the man she thought he was because he hated the man that chose those things. It helps understand that at the time of the affair they are not the man we know and love but they become the fantasy man that she needs in order to get what they want out of the affair. Interesting this topic of realizing his pain and finally his understanding ours!

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  5. This is painfully true for me and there are lessons to learn and internalize. This was never about me, preceded me and hopefully ends with me. I see how much my husbands hurts over his past behaviors yet when I fall into that black abyss I want him to hurt more and bleed more which is not a very nice part of me at all. He has always expressed remorse and when, after therapy and reflection, he was able to share his childhood with me I began to understand him more. I look forward to the day when I can be like you Elle and put it behind me once and for all.

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    1. BG, Not sure any of us put it behind us "once and for all". There will always be moments when it rears its ugly head. The key has been recognizing it and talking about it openly. Suddenly it doesn't loom so large anymore.

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  6. It's true Elle and it's the hardest thing for ME to admit, but I have and i know he's been in wretched pain since childhood.
    Stuff he never told me, that looking back is apparent--his overbearing passive aggressive mother for one. That was probably enough, but the humiliation she put him through as a kid dealing with some emotional problems really became ingrained in his psyche. He was never good enough, he was an embarrassment, he was disappointing, day after day, month after month, year after year.
    my H is a "sex addict" or "sexual compulsive" and although this movie might be triggering for most of us, there is a movie called "shame" which hit home for me after DDay 2. I dont know how I made it through that movie, but I did. In it you can see the character's pain and numbness, in the lenghts he will go to escape his pain. It's not easy to watch.

    we're never sure of his background but it's obvious his family is, to say the least disfuncional. In that movie, I found compassion for my H. At one point, this horribly emotionally scarred man went out of his way to open a door for an older woman carrying shopping bags. Just that touch, showing he was not a complete monster, hit home.

    I dont for one second excuse my H for his behaviour, but I understand his pain and his compulsion. the same compulsion I had checking his phone, computer, tablets over and over and over again looking for something "more". That is what he was doing, but to a much greater , MUCH greater degree. endlessly searching the internet for his next high, the next "thing' to take the pain away. and it did, but only momentarily. That high was followed by a deep painful low and the cycle continues as he tried to outrun the pain.
    We all probably do something unhealthy to some degree while trying to avoid pain. Food, drinking, drugs, shopping (hello me and internet shopping), his, and many others escape pain by doing anything rather than deal with it.

    It's so unfair that we go through so much pain, and it's also important that they can be in pain for having hurt us (i believe many are) but they cannot focus on JUST their pain. Oh my H couldn't talk about it because the hurt he caused me was too much pain for HIM. That, THAT he had to get over.

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    1. Steam, you just wrote my husband's story and thankfully my MIL is dead now. I've been following this web site's free resources for awhile now and shared this video blog with my husband this morning as well as one that addresses celebrating the mundane life.
      https://www.affairrecovery.com/survivors/samuel/our-new-life-we-never-saw

      We are moving toward a much better life and I know that so much of my healing will be up to me. My husband is really good at doing what he needs to do to remain present and emotionally accounted for. I know it is possible that he can backslide but I feel optimistic that we both recognize our individual and collective pain but he has to live with so much more than me. So glad you surfaced. I think of you daily and send healing vibes your way. Being married to a man with a sexually compulsive history really stresses me out but I see that he is doing everything in his power to fight/deal with his demons. He wants to continue to live a healthy life and so far, so good. Just wish I could slide over the daily reminders. Peace

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    2. BG, Interesting video and I think so much of that is true.

      One thing that was really hard for me was seeing how happy my husband became. I felt like I was still dying and he felt like he had been reborn. I mean like he was the happiest ever. He looked it, said it and acted that way. He still is but really once he faced it all and worked through it it was amazing. But as I said I guess I felt jealous. Here he did all of these horrible things for what seems like forever and is absolved and feels great. We did talk about it since it was hard for me. He said he honestly felt like he had ruined his life, my life, our marriage, our family and our kids. He figured when he admitted to everything on dday that I would ask him to leave forever. So the fact that I was willing to consider working it out and eventually get to where made him feel like the luckiest person in the world. He tells me all the time he is so thankful for the type of person that I am (not vengeful, empathic and understanding).

      And I thought about what was said in the video that the affairs were not the best thing to happen to us but it all coming out and our recovery feels like the best thing that has happened to us. Us working together through the hardest thing in our life has brought us closer together. Lots of work to do still and honestly I feel like/hope we both are dedicated to putting in the effort as long as we are together.

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    3. BeachGirl
      Thank you for that video. I try to stay out of my H's recovery and yet stay connected. I have noticed that everytime I want to throw my hands up and say "ok I'm DONE trying to help you and help us" something like that video hits me and i NEED to share it with him. We had a small blow up this morning, which threw him into pain after I had a trigger and could not sleep last night. That video was as good for me as I think it would be for him. I'm around quite a bit, you can find me in the separating or divorced section even though we are living together again. thank you for looking out for me! Hopeful 30--yes, that great relief for them--I hear you. And agreed, I will never say that it was the best thing that ever could have happened. That makes me vomit a little in my mouth, the BEST thing is what we can do with the shattered pieces of what's left, which we could have been handed in a much gentler way.

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    4. Hopeful 30, as difficult as it is for me to write this I think our husbands are able to compartmentalize their lives so much better than we do. My husband really looks pretty happy and content with his life and for the longest time I resented the hell out of that. Just being with him as he interacted with our children/grandchildren and friends was enough to make me crazy at times but every single time we've talked about this and how I resent how happy he is, he tells me that deep inside he always knows how bad his behavior was and that he has to live with that for the rest of his life. When triggers make me cry, they make him cringe and feel like dirt but then he has to also look at me and see how much pain he caused me. He has to be the one to apologize, hold me, talk to me and tell me how sorry he is and how he wishes he could go back and change the past. He knows I've become a much stronger woman since this happened and that there is little room for slack in my life with regard to my marriage. I saw a card this morning that I was sooooooo tempted to buy him for Valentines Day. The front says, "I have become a much happier and satisfied woman since marrying you". The inside reads, "I'd be a great catch if I was single" That just made me laugh because I now believe it! Honestly I would not want to find happiness the way our husbands found it. They have to live their lives always knowing they almost lost the best thing they ever had and that once we find out strength and regain our footing, we are with them because we want to be and not because we are stuck.

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  7. Ah yes. This is so true. But the mechanism that drove him to escape his pain by blaming me, looking elsewhere, not facing his pain, and indulging in fantasy often continues to operate. Even after he knows that, he often can't help but fall into those patterns. It is a long, long process of untangling the pattern.

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    1. MBS, yes, projecting their unhappiness with themselves onto us. It's so much easier to blame your wife for your unhappiness than to look into a mirror and see you have serious issues. That's the M.O. of a betrayer.

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  8. Well written steam makes so much sense.. I reckon many betrayed wives will be nodding and agreeing with what you have written.. thank you for sharing xxx

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  9. This. So spot on. I love everything about this post and relate to it so much. My husband told me one year ago (the end of the this month) about his affair. As the date approaches, I still have those aching moments of pain...the questions of "When will I ever feel like myself again?" For much of the first 6 months of my discovery, I felt like my husband was in another world, shutting off his feelings, seemingly living a different experience than me. It was hard to know how he was feeling day-to-day, IF he was feeling any pain, IF he even cared (we weren't doing therapy at that time either). Now, a year later (and over the past couple months), I can finally see it. And for us, marriage and staying together is not going to work. This is the second time I've gone through this and at some point, you have to look out for yourself and let that person go so they can figure out their own issues for themselves. However, we still go to therapy together as we move into this next phase and yesterday we talked about his pain. I acknowledged that even through my pain, I know he had to have been hurting to do something that is so against the person I know is there at his core. The side effects of a mother who abandoned him and a father he never knew, these are issues and hurts he's been dealing with for years internally and finding any solution (no matter how wrong) to try and fix it. I know he wasn't out to hurt me purposefully, he was coping and escaping the only way he knew how. When you sit with that and acknowledge that, you can't help but have compassion. I think back to that young boy who lost the love of a mother and a sense of security. One who never had a father's guidance and/or relationship. And that makes me sad. It's easy to think in the beginning that your love will "fix" everything but until that person is really ready to stare down their own issues in the face it's super difficult to enact any change. It helps that he's finally started opening up these past few months in ways that he wasn't able to in the beginning. There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about this and the loss of my marriage, but it's not just my loss. It's his too. And I'm not the only one carrying regrets and grief. And it is true that by recognizing the pain in others it can help us heal too. So, thank you for this, perfect timing.

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    1. Photo Girl,
      I love what you have said here. Feeling compassion for him even as your marriage ends is an amazing feat. You are so right that just because you can see and understand someone else's pain doesn't mean it makes sense for you stay in a marriage. Your self awareness is inspiring.

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    2. Thanks Ann. Your comments mean so much to me. It's hard to feel anything related to "inspiring" most days so thanks for adding some brightness to my Friday. Sending love and light.

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  10. I feel tremendous pain for my H in that I have learned through MC/IC about some very significant things in his childhood that no one ever thought were big deals (or would affect his marriage). He was exposed to porn at age 6 (I just learned that, but according to H & society every red blooded male watches porn and it is 'normal', I very much disagree). His 'mother' abandoned him at age 2 - she divorced his father without cause. H only spent summers & Christmas with 'mom' and she was never nurturing (he got all his nurturing from his grandmothers). H was an only child and moved around every 1-2 years b/c of his single father's jobs. In adulthood, H always wore it as a badge of honor that because of his many moves he could make friends very easily (which is true, that's how he & I hit it off so well months before we ever dated).

    I do not have any desire to inflict any pain on him for his infidelities over the course of 13 of 21 years together. I have hardly been angry throughout all these betrayal discoveries, rather sad and now am clinically depressed. The worst angry thing I did was flip him the bird in public when he hurt my feelings about something unrelated. But, I can't say that I feel bad at all for him feeling pain because of his own decisions to cheat. In other words, I feel a great deal of compassion for H because of the circumstances that made him VUNERABLE to an A; yet I don't feel any empathy at all that he has pain from CHOOSING to commit the A.

    My H does feel remorse and I can see it. In addition to talking primarily in MC and a little on our own, he has written it in email; our MC encouraged him to write me an apology letter, which he did; and, Retrouvialle encourages us to write each other letters every night.

    I was feeling very tearful this AM as I am still in the daily head space of reliving the most significant A which was years ago but my dday 3 mos ago. So I went back to read his writings over the past 3 mos. Here are words he has used in reference to that particular A to describe how he feels about himself: self-loath, hate, self-destructive, depressed, suicidal, shame, disgust, sin, deceitful, stupid, naïve, mistake, unworthy, selfish, bad, sad, ashamed, mad/angry at himself, inadequate, inferior, afraid, poor choices, distressed, paralyzed, avoid, disappointed, pain, suffering, regretful, sorrowful/sorry, responsible, helpless, defenseless, wrong.

    WOW! Writing all that down in one place helped ME stop crying (at least for this morning). I think I am going to cut & paste it so I can save it - it may help pull me out of a valley again in the future. Thanks, Elle and friends. This blog is truly part of my own therapy.

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    1. Brown Eyed Girl--wow is right. seeing all of those words in one place reveals just how deep that pain it. Does not excuse their behavior of course. If there is one person in the world he could have shared that with it was you, but it was easier to run. It's hard to remember sometimes that they are people too, but that's a damn good reminder.

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  11. This post was perfect timing for me, just the other night I had a horrible trigger. I haven't had one of these in a long time, but it was the kind that sent me down the rabbit hole with anxiety, shaking inside couldn't breathe were my husband had to pull me out of it. When I get like that I just get so mad and angry all over again. It sometimes takes me a few days to get myself back on even ground and realize all the changes he's made and that I love my marriage now and I love the person he's become. He's worked so hard on himself, but when I get that trigger I forget all that and it just brings all that pain back to me and I just can't get out of my head how could he do this, how could he not have known that his actions would destroy me. But there was something that hit me today like a sledgehammer on my head that you wrote. "recognizing that hurt people hurt people can light your way forward". So next time I go back down into that rabbit hole I'm going to try to remember hurt people hurt people he just wasn't thinking of my feelings, he was hurting so badly inside. It’s defiantly no excuse for the decisions he made! But I have to remember someone that is hurting inside hurt people! It's hard for me to comprehend it because I'm a person that's too compassionate and I put peoples feelings before my own. That is something I'm working on, I'm trying to take care of myself first and my needs it feels a little selfish to me at times but I realize I need to do it. Yesterday we had a therapy session and I asked my therapist when will this ever end the triggers and the pain that I get with them? She told me I am on the right path we are dealing with them in the right way. They never go away but time will help and they'll be less painful as time goes on. Thank you again for this post it was perfect timing for me!

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    1. Hiking girl
      Yes, those triggers are the worse and I too wool them over for several days but I do try to get to the bottom of the trigger and when I do, I try to explain it usually in a well thought out email to my h and usually he gets it but when we're living through one, man it's tough on me but even tougher on him! I've tried using the hurt people hurt people in regards to the cow, she's a mental health therapist, so in my opinion, I don't give a damn how bad she hurts, she has no right to drive by my home when my h is not there, slow enough to gaze in my window. Yet she does and then my h suffers yet again by my trigger. No, I can't control that emotion either, but I'm working so hard on that one thing. Not attaching my anger at her to my h. So hard. If my h heard the constant noise in my head, I swear he'd get me a padded room. Luckily, it doesn't last long and I'm able to function somewhat normal. Hugs

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  12. Darn I think my post never made it on here from a day or two ago.

    For me/us this was the turning point when I realized how much what he did hurt himself. I focused all of my energy on myself and assumed based on stereotypes and society that he loved having his affairs and was super happy. Well I was really wrong about all of that. For the first year after dday it was all about me dealing with the pain etc. Once I started to make significant progress he really I guess you would say let his guard down. That is when I realized that his decisions caused him so much pain, guilt and shame. I honestly think in a way he hurt himself more than he hurt me. I of course had all the normal feelings but he told me repeatedly how he could not even look himself in the mirror and hated himself for 10 years for doing what he did to someone he loved. He said if he did not love me it still would have felt bad but it would have been easier to cope with and repress.

    So in the end him addressing his pain and me also working with him as he worked with me has brought us to a new level. I know he appreciates me more than ever for giving him a true second chance. I never wished for him to suffer but seeing that he really hurt himself so badly and caused so much pain affected me. I guess I was able to have more empathy for him. Going through this together this entire healing process has been life changing for both of us.

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    1. Hopeful I can so relate to your feelings in the beginning. I had no idea that he hurt. I just assumed that he loved it and he was just upset he got caught, or maybe he wasn't even upset. But the further we go down this road I realize that he is hurting and was hurting way more than I ever knew about. It's actually helped me through this in the recent month or so knowing that he is hurting too, in his own way. Not because I want him to (because I surely did in the beginning) but because it shows he is remorseful. And that he was broken before the A. And I never had a clue. So this has forced us both to look inside and try to fix ourselves.

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  13. Sometimes (often/daily) I go back and read a post when it has particular meaning to me and this is one of them. After re-reading this entire post and comments I decided to jump over the the Blog for Compulsion Solutions and guess what? Well, just read for yourself. George and Elle are both addressing our spouses pain. Here is the link. I think my day will be better now that I've banished some growing demons in my head.
    http://compulsionsolutions.com/acknowledging-his-suffering-isnt-the-same-as-letting-him-off-the-hook/

    Happy Sunday

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    1. BeachGirl,
      Thanks for that link. There were quite a few good articles on that blog.

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    2. I would also like to thank you for that link, very helpful.

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  14. It took me a very long time to see his pain. Like you Hopeful 30, he had an opportunity to be a new person. He had the opportunity for redemption. What did that leave me? But on the other side he is labeled forever. Forever, his children know. He is always trying to make it up to me, everyday. Obtaining redemption is not one and done for him. It is every single day.

    He is talking about his pain more. I can't seem to stop wanting to compare our pain. Is it worse for the person you run over or is it worse for the driver? I think of our pain like he is the driver, on drugs, who run over me. I was hurt but not left for dead. I was hurt bad, broken heart, broken everything. Whenever I see in the news a person killed by a drunk driver. I always thought how in the hell do you live with that? Wouldn't that be terrible? As an ER nurse, I would see the results of a car accident. The drunk driver made it but his wife didn't. Instant regret. Instant guilt. Instant pain. I saw it their faces. I told them, their wife didn't make it. That is my husbands pain. He is the driver. I'm not sorry he has his pain, he decided to drive drunk. But while I heal and walk out of the hospital, he has the the pain, I hurt her. That is the only way I can look at his pain. I have to admit when I see his pain, I'm not gleefully happy or relish his own nightmare. But I have to be honest, when I see him in pain I really don't give a shit about it. I don't feel sorry for him. I probably never will.

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    1. Lynn Less Pain, thank you for your post. I've secretly harbored your exact words, "But I have to be honest, when I see him in pain I really don't give a shit about it. I don't feel sorry for him. I probably never will." I've given myself a lot of grace around this emotion and thought because I am 20 months out of D-Day today and hope this changes with time. My husband, like Hopeful 30's husband, tries to work with me when I have emotional setbacks and I am both relieved and pissed off big time because this is all his fault. He is well aware of that so I know his pain will be ongoing as long as I live.

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    2. This is one thing I have never backed down since early on after dday and my husband has agreed. This is on him. We have had some major conversations regarding his pain vs my pain. LLP I like your analogy. They are both pain but in a different way. I think when I step back it feels like it is unfair since he had the "control" and not that I am a victim but I really had no control. Without being a private investigator 24/7 it seems like I would have never figured it out. Even when I caught an odd text he could have still covered it all up. On dday he had been done with both affairs for over a year. Not that his behavior was perfect but he was not in the thick of it. I agree I do not care what he feels or his pain. I say what I feel and he has to learn to understand where I am coming from. I will not suppress or hide what I feel and think. I do know for a fact I am sure my husband is much better at his job since dday. I think just like after he had kids it changed how he worked with kids. I know this gives him an entire new perspective and honestly he has to hear about these types of behaviors every day at work. I think it is a good thing. It keeps it fresh in his mind. All I can tell myself is I have always remained true to myself and I am proud of that and happy I have not settled. Him he is ashamed and always will be. His biggest fear is that his family and our kids find out. Up until dday his biggest fear is he would die and I would find out afterwards. I think it is interesting he lived with that for 10 years but did nothing about it. Crazy how the mind works!

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    3. I'm pissed off too. Even if I know he's in pain there was a VERY easy way to avoid this whole situation. Stay away from whores! Tah-dah! I understand he had something going on that made him unhappy. But guess what! I had my own BS to make me unhappy too. He wasn't perfect. Far from it! And I didn't sleep with another man! And then BLAME him because he's boring or not as perfect as I wanted. I accepted him as my flawed but basically good husband. That whole better or worse thing forsaking all others, I meant it. He was my person! And somehow they turn it to you and get mad that you don't feel sorry for them. Well no. Sorry. I have a hard time feeling pity for someone that ruined their life and mine at the same time. Just for the sake of some dirty skank.

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    4. You are absolutely right. Everyone has pain...moments of self doubt...loneliness. But not everyone cheats. Only self indulgent a-holes do. They are sorry they got caught. If they hadnt got caught then they would still be doing it. If they didnt enjoy it then they wouldnt do it. Look at that "remorseful" husband who cheated for thirtenn years. Thirteen years! That doesnt sound like a "mistake" to me. Sorry. Not buying the "lonely" or "damaged" excuse. If you are lonely you can call a friend, adopt a pet...or (hey!) talk to your spouse about it! Nope. They cheat because they enjoy it and hope they get can get away with it.

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    5. There's no question that there is pleasure in it. Absolutely. Just as there's pleasure in shooting heroin, pleasure in shoplifting, pleasure in cutting your arms. For those incapable of empathy, the "self-indulgent a-holes" description is apt.
      But just as the person shooting heroin, cutting, shoplifting, insert-bad-choice here, gets some perverse pleasure out of what they're doing, I would argue that many if not most don't have the clarity of mind to choose the healthier option. The guy who has no remorse? Toss him. Hell, feel free to toss the guy who does feel remorse too. You get to decide what you want to do about his cheating. But to confuse cheating as somehow less linked to pain than other forms of bad behaviour is to miss a big piece of this.

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    6. Anonymous
      I was as angry as you at first. Furious, in fact. How dare he! And I had been a perfectly loyal wife who DID NOT cheat on him.
      And though my husband never blamed me for what he did, I can imagine how infuriating that must feel.
      I knew this post would invoke strong feelings because I'm am essentially asking women who've been deeply hurt by someone's ridiculous behaviour to at least consider his pain. But I know that my own healing didn't really begin until I could recognize that. And that's been the case in most relationships in my life in which I've been wounded. My mom's alcohol abuse, for instance. It wasn't until she accepted full responsibility for the pain she'd caused and I was able to see that her addiction had nothing to do with me but was the result of her own inability to deal with her life that we were able to recreate a healthy mother-daughter relationship.
      With marriage, we get to choose, of course. Nobody has to "forgive" anybody if they don't want to.
      I can speak only from my own experience in this.

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    7. Chris, the man you are referring to is my H. Go re-read my story. He only had sex once. The sum total of A's was actually quite short, but it was 3 betrayals. I AM NOT making excuses for him and it was not a "mistake" it was his choice, his decision, him betraying me. There was 3 years between a month long work flirtation that ended and the next A; which was the worst one only 1x sex but kept with intermittent emails for a few years (I consider those emails an ongoing A) - he ended that A on his own without my knowledge it ever happened; and then, 10 years later he signed up for an Ashley Madison account I caught it within 1-2 weeks. There is absolutely NO excuse for what he did. And I am still not sure what I will eventually decide. But for now my decision is NO decision because he made the apt for us to go MC 1x/wk, we are both going to IC, he going to a psychiatrist to get evaluated for attachment disorder (his mother abandoned him), depression & addiction. He scheduled us to go on a faith based weekend retreat that has weekly follow-up, He writes me a love note every day. He has admitted it was ALL his fault, said that I did nothing wrong and asked for my forgiveness. Yes, in all this we have had significant setbacks (fights about other stuff, gaslighting, etc.) so it is not all a bed of roses.

      You see, the reason the women who have unfortunately found themselves here love Elle's blog is because we support each other's decisions. If you want to divorce your CH I will support you. If you decide to stay I will support you. If I am deciding to taking it one day at a time and I am willing to put the work in to see if it can work out because my H IS showing remorse, doing the work of self-improvement, growing in his relationship with God and I want my children to have married parents and not throw away a 21 year relationship just yet then that is my decision and it is not an unreasonable one.

      It sounds like you have also been really hurt and each woman on this blog understands that in a unique way. If you are angry at your CH you are completely justified.

      I've been victimized by my abusive parents, my CH and his awful family who blame me more than H for his PA. I am on this page because Elle, and all these strong women help me heal. Please, I don't have the capacity to take on any more hurt.

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    8. Browneyedgirl, Thank you for such a measured and deeply personal response. And I hope you're able to see that Chris's own response to this says volumes about her own pain. I see this play out on other sites – this sense that we're fools. It's one of the reasons I created this. I don't think we're fools. I think we each have to navigate our own way through this based on what feels right for us (which can include what feels right for our children). I applaud you for giving yourself the time to make the decision that works best for you, for treating yourself with dignity and respect. With all that you've been through, your grace is a light that draws the best out of us as we heal alongside you.

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  15. Just how exactly does strange sex relieve pain? And if doing it makes them feel so bad(self loathing, guilt) then why do they keep going back for more? Im gonna have to remember that PAIN excuse for whenever I get caught doing something I shouldnt.Its not my fault. I was in PAIN!

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    1. Chris
      My h used the word lonely...I was lonely during that time as well. As his excuses for the last romp in his hotel room on a business trip, was scared she was going to tell me about the affair. My point is at the time they get caught, they say and do anything to keep from feeling their pain that they inflict upon themselves. We learn empathy for their pain through our own. And yes he admitted he enjoyed the sex until it became a chore! Then he made the choice to end his affair and face the fallout! It hasn't been easy for him but my own path has been pretty rough too! No matter which choice you make, it's your hurt that's more important to process and heal from! Hugs!

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    2. Chris, here is a link I posted for this weeks Wednesday response but I don't want you to have to look for it. This is what emotional pain looks like for men like my husband who are recovering porn/sex addicts.

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/science-choice/201702/10-patterns-addictive-behavior

      It takes a long time to understand that compulsive sexual responses to emotional stress is a real "thing". I hate it and often feel a lot of hate toward my H but overall, as time passes and I read more, I am beginning to understand this. I do not like it and non of us married to sexually compulsive men like it but the fact is, there is a lot of deep seated pain from early childhood that led my spouse to self-sooth with porn which led to worse things. He hates himself and wishes he had the ability to stop. I don't understand this much either but am beginning to just accept that this is his truth and he is learning how to live a better life. He now understands where all this came from so hopefully your spouse is willing to take a deep look inside. It was never about me although it blew up my life.

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  16. Chris, thirteen years is a long time. I understand why you ask, how painful is that? No excuse or reason is going to justify his choice or behavior. Your last sentence says it all. I'm so sorry, YOUR pain must be immense. There is not a circumstance where no matter how much pain he has makes this ok, never ever ever. After getting caught, If he wants a second chance that is his pain to bear. His pain that all his lies, justifications, are out in the sunlight and open for others to be destroyed, hurt and he caused it. He and others know now what he capable of doing. Like I said, I could care less but only acknowledges his pain as it is real.

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  17. Chris right now it sounds like your the one who's hurting and dealing with an enormous amount of pain.. your pain needs tending too.. give yourself some time and space to breathe.. journal, talk to someone decide what works for you and make that a priority daily.. we can't change the past although we can rewrite the future whether that is with your h or without him that's your decision but my advice to you is to not make any decisions right now.. I've been where you are so angry I could have killed my h and the ow I felt like I couldn't handle the pain and anger but I did .. my therapist taught me how to journal I'd never done it before and initially was sceptical to do so.. but it worked for me when I wanted to hurl abuse at him or scratch her eyes out I took to my pen and paper and scrawled down all those awful thoughts I had in my head .. Chris I'm 10 months from d day 2 and i no longer need to journal I see my therapist less and I am able to consider my h feelings again .. this is definetly a journey had I not gone through the journaling therapy having time to myself I'm not sure I'd be where I am now.. I'm still living separately from my h and that was something else I needed to happen for me to heal .. I hope I've not rambled on too much .. just wanted to share my story xxx

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