Elle, I love this Wednesday hug. In my journal it is along similar lines that I wanted to share. I can’t climb the Mt. Expectation anymore. It’s not that I’m not welcome to try. I have and I’m just not able. If the word Perfect is in my job description it is because I put it there. My role is to help but not try to save everyone else’s mountain. I can’t climb Mt. Self sufficient either. I’m not able to run my world and other people’s world. I thought I was self-made but not really. I once thought I could sustain it. Just roll up my sleeves and put in another 12 hour day. That maybe the trick when cleaning the house. This maybe enough for sometimes. but when faced with reality that my marriage isn’t working, another 12 hour day won’t do the trick. I thought my husband wanted great meals, clean house. I thought he would appreciate all I did, get the oil changed, take out the garbage, pull weeds etc.. going on a trip I thought he wanted to just get in the car, I did all the packing, reservations etc.. Taking care of him while sick. Wake up. I learned that is not what he wanted. What he wanted was less than I expected of myself. He wanted someone to sit on the couch with him, hold hands and watch a movie. He wanted someone to go out to lunch with him. He wanted someone to have coffee in the morning. He wanted someone to stop what they are doing and look at him, listen to what he was talking about. He wanted someone to sit on his lap and talk. He called all this romantic. He wanted someone to make love to him without fucking. Make out on the couch, feel someone up, teenage stuff really. He missed the romance. So simple yet I thought I had to be perfect in doing stuff. Yes, there were reasons why I didn’t do this. Even my therapist said, you married an asshole, it’s up to you. My H said a week ago, “I was an asshole our entire married life. I didn’t even try to foster our marriage.” He has been thinking and so have I. For a long time I had nothing to wake up to. It does get better, I never thought it would but it does. It take a while to wake up too.
LLP, believe it or not, my husband wanted similar things but never expressed this to me in any way. He readily admits to being a selfish jerk during our marriage and I let it go and made excuses in my head why he did the things he did because I was so use to him being gone all the time that it was easier for me to just do whatever I wanted/needed to do. We are in a much better place now. Tomorrow is my 3 year D-day and I'm fine. I'm better than fine at the moment. He was the jerk all along and it took me a long time to really see it. Even now I don't want to admit it but he really is like a 15 year old in so many ways. When things start to go sideways in a conversation I am prone to ask, "How old are you today?" We both laugh. We just had the best laugh ever a couple of days ago as we were sitting on the couch after dinner and he was telling me about getting up on the roof at one of our rentals to clean it off. I looked at him as asked him if our marriage was a democracy? He said, "Yes". "No, wait" I said, "In a democracy we each get a vote and if we cancel each other out then it doesn't happen." He started laughing as he knew exactly where I was going with this conversation. I was laughing really hard and said, "I vote that you stay off all roofs forever. You are 67 years old. You turned your ankle this afternoon and then climbed up on a roof to sweep off the pine needles!" "You are not qualified to get up on any roof." "Your thinking is impaired." "You are not 15 any more." We now have all the things you listed in your post. He brings me coffee every morning and has since the week after D-day. We talk, cook, exercise, walk, and have great sex. It's as if he is seeing me and his whole life through new eyes. About time, right?
LLP ...me too im learned after dday that perfection is overrated and down right exhausting all the perfect in the world was for me and he still cheated ... now good enough is a way better use of time MY TIME! I still do some of the above but because i feel like and on other days im not feeling it then i don't letting myself off the hook made alot clearer twofold and funny thing my H once said all the things i was acting out with her i really wanted to be doing to you??? Dummy then he should have said that and helped me make it happen ... hindsight. You are awesome LLP just being you .. Thats it.
Yeahhhh you Beach Girl! My 3 year passed in May it wasnt till days end my eyes grew wide and i realized ... todays D day we had alot going on that month and i was consumed. We recently went on vacation and you know what i had many days totally in the moment that it didnt even enter my mind. Busy is good staying in the moment good ...im happy for you 3 years in like me sister ... you got this ... still in the rearview mirror not front and center. My world is not perfect and thats ok ... but i am living in color again and that is a welcomed feeling and on the days im not thats ok ... i try and let it wash over me .. this too shall pass and i try again .. that my dear is brave ...saying ... ill try again tomorrow. Do something tor yourself tomorrow? Pretty toes maybe? You need that on a beach ... beach girl.
OMG Beach girl, I loved your comments. They made me feel really good. I appreciate you typing the conversation between you and your H. So uplifting with hope. I felt exactly like you too, making excuses. Now I can catch all those and address them if I really feel like he crossed the line. I'm sure I will have more eye opening. Your H is 67 and mine 72. How in the hell do these old dudes get their rocks off with OW? I mean really. I remember working in NEURO TRAUMA ICU. Even if a male is brain dead guess which part of the anatomy still rises up to say hi? I'm not kidding either. LLR RN
LLP, you had me howling at the "rising up to say hi" comment. So true. My husband shows no signs of slowing down. I'm sure he had a great time with his prostitutes in the moment but over the past three years when I refer to them/him and his excursions, I am cruel, hateful and blunt about how I see his behavior. There is no flipping way he can delude himself that he was anything other than an hourly rate with his whores. I am so disgusted with men who buy sex. When I am really pissed and aiming for his heart I call him a "sexual predator" and more. Why in the hell would any old, overweight, beluga whale type ever think they were doing anything to please a whore?????
Maybe I am just now waking up to what an insensitive piece of work my husband is. I am in Italy visiting my daughter and I fly home on Saturday. I have been here 11 days and have had good days with no triggers up until today. My husband and I have been trading sweet messages and this is the longest I have gone in 16 months without a trigger. I call him to tell him about it immediately after it happened, per our Therapist. She tells me I am not to handle them alone. He is responsible for seeing me through it but as luck had it he was in the middle of a meeting. We talked three hours later and I told him about it. He was surprised and irritated. He said we had so many good days. I agreed and explained that we should celebrate having gone that long but we should also realize that this is going to happen off and on for years to come. (I learned that from this blog) I told him I might go a year in the future but eventually I will have a trigger and we will deal with it. Well.... he told me I ruined his day and that because I had been able to think about it for three hours before I called I should have empathized with him and how terrible he felt. He told me he is going to expect me to be able to empathize with him too when I have a trigger and that he can’t just do it for me anymore. It has to be both ways! He was pissed off because I said I felt shocked and sad too when I had the trigger. He asked me why is it only about you??? Really???? What the fuck! Am I crazy to be furious? Should I be empathizing with the SOB who cheated on me for four years with prostitutes and put my health at risk? (Clean STD tests thank God) Please let me know what y’all think! Am I being unreasonable? How can he keep breaking my heart over and over? I’m exhausted!
LilyLove, it is clear to me that your spouse is very much in need of a reality check with regard to triggers and comfort because 16 months into my disclosure I was still a mess and not handling things well at all. He caused this mess and he needs to shut up and show up. This is about you, not him. On another note, I've been working very hard to deal with my triggers alone. There are times when I tell my husband what I'm feeling and why so we can chat about it but when I get triggered deep and I feel that rage inside (or deep sadness) I pull every tool I have out of my tool box to self-regulate my emotions. I need to do this for me. I want to be able to talk about this without dissolving into a pile of tears or anger. I did have a couple of intense "feelings" about my husband and his prostitutes yesterday morning and was able to get myself back to neutral. I ended up having a great day considering. Can the two of you go back to counseling to work on communication and empathy? I know I've found a lot of comfort and help watching the video blogs here. You can sign up for their blog emails. You are not unreasonable my dear. https://www.affairrecovery.com/survivors/samuel/are-you-safe-enough-your-marriage-part-1
LilyLove, This was hard for me at first and as the process of healing evolved as I was used to always coping with my emotions all by myself. I think the years of gas lighting led to that. My therapist was very firm that it did not matter what my husband wanted. At this point if he wanted to make this marriage work then things were going to be really different. Also he would feel bad and this would not be easy especially for him. In the end my therapist said my husband had all the freedom and ability to handle things the way he wanted. Unfortunately the day he started making poor choices he threw away everything he had been given in our relationship. And as my therapist has said and I have read it on here now it is up to me what I need and how we go through this process. Saying all of that I remain true to myself and I am respectful since in the end I want our marriage to last if we both put in the effort. I do not want to be mean or vindictive and cause further damage.
I 100% feel that my husband needs to be made aware of my triggers. And I agree that he should be part of the healing process. In the end every time I bring one up he either said he had the same trigger or that he understands. It has really helped us heal. In the end I feel there needs to be 100% transparency and honesty. We are closer than ever because of this and I think that is a good thing.
The other thing about how much time has gone by and the length between triggers or any other issues. I see this healing process as a roller coaster. It is hard to know when highs and lows are coming or going. Also I feel that as things have improved my expectations have elevated. That was a hard shift for my husband. But what was ok on dday is not okay 3 years post dday. We have moved way beyond that. So something that triggers me now might not have been on my radar early on close to dday. Also I honestly think this is something that is part of our story. This is something we must be aware of and face daily. I do not hold this over my husband's head but we discuss topics related to it often. Still something almost every day will remind one of us. It could be a tv show, a movie, something our kids say, him going golfing with friends, a trip.... We have chosen to be open about it with each other. This was hard at fist since my husband was very defensive. After all he 100% is the reason for all of this pain even for himself.
LilyLove, What really helped us was we set up a time once a week to talk. I would write daily and before our once a week talk I would look over what I had written. It helped me zero in on what was bothering me for the week. This helped us focus on it one time a week. I think for my husband it helped him prepare and know when it was going to be a hard talk instead of thinking every call or if he came home one night what was he going to face. I have not been easy on my husband but at a certain point the sporadic and/or daily conversations were too much for both of us. The rest of the week we focused on doing other things together. Playing golf, going for a walk, making dinner together etc. These talks helped so much. Through these talks he became less defensive. It really was transformative. My husband is a totally different person. He said on dday he grew up and became a totally new person. It was still a process and not an easy one. I also expected this was going to be hardest for me however at past three years for us at least it has been hardest for my husband. This has been unexpected. For a long time I was so upset about what he did to me, us and our kids but in the end I am most sad how he let himself down the most.
Also I would suggest checking out this article. My husband brought it home somewhat early in the process. He is not a big reader but this article hit him and he still refers back to it over 3 years later. I love John Gottman's work. All of his books are really good in my opinion. Also we saw the one man play of Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus. This format really hit home with my husband too. I will say my husband is in the mental health field so he has way more knowledge, training and professional experience than most people. The article was in The Atlantic and call The Masters of Love.
Lily Love, I just passed my 3 year D-day and the first almost 2 years were awful much of the time. I was a mess. I could not believe my husband had a secret life and it almost killed me. I went through emotional hell. I am the "matriarch" of the family and so many people are in my circle so making time for myself to fall apart and put myself back together initially was really, really hard. I went to counseling myself, I walked, I went to the gym, I took classes on Mindfulness, I learned to meditate, I learned how to breathe, I did yoga, I journaled, I read tons of Buddhist literature, especially Pema Chodron and Jack Kornfield. I basically went nuts inside and put on a happy face. It took me a very long time to really understand that everything I ever did that was out of character for me and my own moral compass was nobody's fault but my own. I had to own every thing I ever did in my 67 years. Once I accepted that truth it became easier to see that all the choices my husband made belonged to him alone. He planned and executed every single prostitute adventure without a flipping care or thought to anyone else. In fact, he has learned so much about himself after therapy and similar things I did to finally accept what a fucked up life he had with a distant and harsh father and narcissist mother. He never talked about his childhood abuse, emotional, physical and sexual. Early on when i constantly cried and asked "why did you do this?" and his answer was always, "I don't know." it was excruciatingly painful for me to hear but many months after disclosure after he had done a lot of "work" on himself in counseling he was able to see clearly how he just lived on auto-pilot and how truly screwed up his thinking is. He still has his flaws and we are often thrown into unpleasant conversations because of his response to me but it is working better than ever. Although I still thing about everyone around me when I do things I pretty much veto anything I do not want to do. I tell him what I want. When I gave him a chance to grow up and stop his porn and whores, I told him he had one chance with me. One. Not an ooopppsss. Nope. Just one. I went to see an attorney early on so I knew what I was entitled to. That shocked him. I don't think he ever thought I would actually do that although he did believe his marriage would be over if I found out. Because we have been married for several decades and had adult children and grandchildren I knew the profound effect it would have on everyone if we split up and divorced so initially I told him I'd give it a year to see if he could change. I really did not know but I needed time to think and plan. I rarely regret staying with him but a big part of that is that he has been able to stay away from porn and whores. He says because of the books he read, the therapy he went to, the mindfulness classes he took including one for addictions, he is able to stay present and control his mind when thoughts are negative. I just want to be able to deal with me. Not him. I want to be able to remain calm regardless of what is happening around me. I practice my calming mantras daily, I meditate, I do not watch the news, I make my exercise a priority and I see my friends and family. I spent my entire life taking care of everyone else and now I am taking care of me.
LLP i JUST recently found out the mr steam wanted much the same. But you’d never know by asking him. I am so damn tired by the end of the week or day that i never thought about this and he gave me NO clue that this is what the wanted. What i want is help. Which is kinda BS. I want him to participate in the House, inside or outside without acting like he’s doing me a big favor. I say thank you ALL the time. Not him. And it’s not him trying to be rude, I’m just so effing competent. He doesn’t notice the towels washed. They are just always there. We’re in the middle of a “thing” right now so it’s hard for me to turn on romance kitten just tomake him happy. But yup. I know, This is what they want. Years ago i wrote a blog here and felt like an idiot when i read it out loud. I said “always be his girlfriend”. It sounded insane. But seeing what you wrote , it makes sense again. Always a two way street though. If you want a girlfriend treat me like one.
Lily love. I wish i could help. My h is triggered by my triggers too. I understand that. I imagine IF THE WORST thing i HAD ever done in my life was found out and NOW I’d rather be done with it and keep it locked up but no, no someone wants to talk about it. Ugh. My h feels TOTALLY ashamed of himself. Never ever blames me but has told me that this stuff of his being held to the light is HORRIBLE for him. And although i think And sometimes say “well that’s too bad”’ i try not to shame him because he beats himself up anyeay and any lashing out is just defensiveness which he has got to get through. This whole “ you ruined my day” is a damn bit much to put on you. I would totally take this situation to your shrink And get their thoughts. Is your H taking responsibility? Is he seeing a shrink? My therapist commends my h on how he handles this stuff, but H never puts the blame on me. For all his foibles i can’t fault him on this. And because he never blames me i am triggered less. There is a line in here somewhere about getting what you need and beating the crap out of him with what you have. I’ve def crosses it. It will happen. We all learn. Including, hopefully, your H
Very, very good and insightful post Steam. I appreciate that you remind me that he does not like to reminded by me of the absolutely worse part of his past under any circumstances. My spouse never blames me for anything. He owns his past, his choices, his screwed up thinking and his lying and cheating ways. It always helps me when you or someone posts about the SHAME our spouses feel and how they wallow in it. Mine seems to be doing pretty well. I'm doing OK too but I know that there will be things that present themselves to me that I will struggle with.
Beach Girl - I think that's the worst part. They have their own shame and we feel guilty about exposing it because while we want them to hurt like we hurt ... we also don't. I think it's the motherly instinct in most of us ...
I'm a fixer. I remember early on reading about how they would feel shame, etc. And I made it my job to help him with that. I tried to facilitate his recovery. Ha! How sad? Here, I'm bleeding profusely over here ... but allow me to tend to your scratch first.
Now - I am still delicate in my approach (99.9% of the time at least ... other times the lion comes out) ... but I am no longer denying my wounds are there too.
Elle, I love this Wednesday hug. In my journal it is along similar lines that I wanted to share. I can’t climb the Mt. Expectation anymore. It’s not that I’m not welcome to try. I have and I’m just not able. If the word Perfect is in my job description it is because I put it there. My role is to help but not try to save everyone else’s mountain. I can’t climb Mt. Self sufficient either. I’m not able to run my world and other people’s world. I thought I was self-made but not really. I once thought I could sustain it. Just roll up my sleeves and put in another 12 hour day. That maybe the trick when cleaning the house. This maybe enough for sometimes. but when faced with reality that my marriage isn’t working, another 12 hour day won’t do the trick. I thought my husband wanted great meals, clean house. I thought he would appreciate all I did, get the oil changed, take out the garbage, pull weeds etc.. going on a trip I thought he wanted to just get in the car, I did all the packing, reservations etc.. Taking care of him while sick. Wake up. I learned that is not what he wanted. What he wanted was less than I expected of myself. He wanted someone to sit on the couch with him, hold hands and watch a movie. He wanted someone to go out to lunch with him. He wanted someone to have coffee in the morning. He wanted someone to stop what they are doing and look at him, listen to what he was talking about. He wanted someone to sit on his lap and talk. He called all this romantic. He wanted someone to make love to him without fucking. Make out on the couch, feel someone up, teenage stuff really. He missed the romance. So simple yet I thought I had to be perfect in doing stuff. Yes, there were reasons why I didn’t do this. Even my therapist said, you married an asshole, it’s up to you. My H said a week ago, “I was an asshole our entire married life. I didn’t even try to foster our marriage.” He has been thinking and so have I. For a long time I had nothing to wake up to. It does get better, I never thought it would but it does. It take a while to wake up too.
ReplyDeleteLLP - it's this type of "me too" post that keeps bringing me back to this blog. Hugs to you my fellow warrior ... you're not alone.
DeleteLLP, believe it or not, my husband wanted similar things but never expressed this to me in any way. He readily admits to being a selfish jerk during our marriage and I let it go and made excuses in my head why he did the things he did because I was so use to him being gone all the time that it was easier for me to just do whatever I wanted/needed to do. We are in a much better place now. Tomorrow is my 3 year D-day and I'm fine. I'm better than fine at the moment. He was the jerk all along and it took me a long time to really see it. Even now I don't want to admit it but he really is like a 15 year old in so many ways. When things start to go sideways in a conversation I am prone to ask, "How old are you today?" We both laugh. We just had the best laugh ever a couple of days ago as we were sitting on the couch after dinner and he was telling me about getting up on the roof at one of our rentals to clean it off. I looked at him as asked him if our marriage was a democracy? He said, "Yes". "No, wait" I said, "In a democracy we each get a vote and if we cancel each other out then it doesn't happen." He started laughing as he knew exactly where I was going with this conversation. I was laughing really hard and said, "I vote that you stay off all roofs forever. You are 67 years old. You turned your ankle this afternoon and then climbed up on a roof to sweep off the pine needles!" "You are not qualified to get up on any roof." "Your thinking is impaired." "You are not 15 any more." We now have all the things you listed in your post. He brings me coffee every morning and has since the week after D-day. We talk, cook, exercise, walk, and have great sex. It's as if he is seeing me and his whole life through new eyes. About time, right?
DeleteLLP ...me too im learned after dday that perfection is overrated and down right exhausting all the perfect in the world was for me and he still cheated ... now good enough is a way better use of time MY TIME! I still do some of the above but because i feel like and on other days im not feeling it then i don't letting myself off the hook made alot clearer twofold and funny thing my H once said all the things i was acting out with her i really wanted to be doing to you??? Dummy then he should have said that and helped me make it happen ... hindsight. You are awesome LLP just being you ..
DeleteThats it.
Yeahhhh you Beach Girl! My 3 year passed in May it wasnt till days end my eyes grew wide and i realized ... todays D day we had alot going on that month and i was consumed. We recently went on vacation and you know what i had many days totally in the moment that it didnt even enter my mind. Busy is good staying in the moment good ...im happy for you 3 years in like me sister ... you got this ... still in the rearview mirror not front and center. My world is not perfect and thats ok ... but i am living in color again and that is a welcomed feeling and on the days im not thats ok ... i try and let it wash over me .. this too shall pass and i try again .. that my dear is brave ...saying ... ill try again tomorrow. Do something tor yourself tomorrow? Pretty toes maybe? You need that on a beach ... beach girl.
DeleteBeach Girl, that is beautiful it sounds like you're in a really good place. So nice to hear stories of coming through all this craziness.
DeleteOMG Beach girl, I loved your comments. They made me feel really good. I appreciate you typing the conversation between you and your H. So uplifting with hope. I felt exactly like you too, making excuses. Now I can catch all those and address them if I really feel like he crossed the line. I'm sure I will have more eye opening. Your H is 67 and mine 72. How in the hell do these old dudes get their rocks off with OW? I mean really. I remember working in NEURO TRAUMA ICU. Even if a male is brain dead guess which part of the anatomy still rises up to say hi? I'm not kidding either. LLR RN
ReplyDeleteLLP, you had me howling at the "rising up to say hi" comment. So true. My husband shows no signs of slowing down. I'm sure he had a great time with his prostitutes in the moment but over the past three years when I refer to them/him and his excursions, I am cruel, hateful and blunt about how I see his behavior. There is no flipping way he can delude himself that he was anything other than an hourly rate with his whores. I am so disgusted with men who buy sex. When I am really pissed and aiming for his heart I call him a "sexual predator" and more. Why in the hell would any old, overweight, beluga whale type ever think they were doing anything to please a whore?????
DeleteMaybe I am just now waking up to what an insensitive piece of work my husband is. I am in Italy visiting my daughter and I fly home on Saturday. I have been here 11 days and have had good days with no triggers up until today. My husband and I have been trading sweet messages and this is the longest I have gone in 16 months without a trigger. I call him to tell him about it immediately after it happened, per our Therapist. She tells me I am not to handle them alone. He is responsible for seeing me through it but as luck had it he was in the middle of a meeting. We talked three hours later and I told him about it. He was surprised and irritated. He said we had so many good days. I agreed and explained that we should celebrate having gone that long but we should also realize that this is going to happen off and on for years to come. (I learned that from this blog) I told him I might go a year in the future but eventually I will have a trigger and we will deal with it. Well.... he told me I ruined his day and that because I had been able to think about it for three hours before I called I should have empathized with him and how terrible he felt. He told me he is going to expect me to be able to empathize with him too when I have a trigger and that he can’t just do it for me anymore. It has to be both ways! He was pissed off because I said I felt shocked and sad too when I had the trigger. He asked me why is it only about you???
ReplyDeleteReally???? What the fuck!
Am I crazy to be furious?
Should I be empathizing with the SOB who cheated on me for four years with prostitutes and put my health at risk? (Clean STD tests thank God)
Please let me know what y’all think! Am I being unreasonable?
How can he keep breaking my heart over and over? I’m exhausted!
LilyLove, it is clear to me that your spouse is very much in need of a reality check with regard to triggers and comfort because 16 months into my disclosure I was still a mess and not handling things well at all. He caused this mess and he needs to shut up and show up. This is about you, not him. On another note, I've been working very hard to deal with my triggers alone. There are times when I tell my husband what I'm feeling and why so we can chat about it but when I get triggered deep and I feel that rage inside (or deep sadness) I pull every tool I have out of my tool box to self-regulate my emotions. I need to do this for me. I want to be able to talk about this without dissolving into a pile of tears or anger. I did have a couple of intense "feelings" about my husband and his prostitutes yesterday morning and was able to get myself back to neutral. I ended up having a great day considering. Can the two of you go back to counseling to work on communication and empathy? I know I've found a lot of comfort and help watching the video blogs here. You can sign up for their blog emails. You are not unreasonable my dear. https://www.affairrecovery.com/survivors/samuel/are-you-safe-enough-your-marriage-part-1
DeleteLilyLove, This was hard for me at first and as the process of healing evolved as I was used to always coping with my emotions all by myself. I think the years of gas lighting led to that. My therapist was very firm that it did not matter what my husband wanted. At this point if he wanted to make this marriage work then things were going to be really different. Also he would feel bad and this would not be easy especially for him. In the end my therapist said my husband had all the freedom and ability to handle things the way he wanted. Unfortunately the day he started making poor choices he threw away everything he had been given in our relationship. And as my therapist has said and I have read it on here now it is up to me what I need and how we go through this process. Saying all of that I remain true to myself and I am respectful since in the end I want our marriage to last if we both put in the effort. I do not want to be mean or vindictive and cause further damage.
DeleteI 100% feel that my husband needs to be made aware of my triggers. And I agree that he should be part of the healing process. In the end every time I bring one up he either said he had the same trigger or that he understands. It has really helped us heal. In the end I feel there needs to be 100% transparency and honesty. We are closer than ever because of this and I think that is a good thing.
The other thing about how much time has gone by and the length between triggers or any other issues. I see this healing process as a roller coaster. It is hard to know when highs and lows are coming or going. Also I feel that as things have improved my expectations have elevated. That was a hard shift for my husband. But what was ok on dday is not okay 3 years post dday. We have moved way beyond that. So something that triggers me now might not have been on my radar early on close to dday. Also I honestly think this is something that is part of our story. This is something we must be aware of and face daily. I do not hold this over my husband's head but we discuss topics related to it often. Still something almost every day will remind one of us. It could be a tv show, a movie, something our kids say, him going golfing with friends, a trip.... We have chosen to be open about it with each other. This was hard at fist since my husband was very defensive. After all he 100% is the reason for all of this pain even for himself.
LilyLove, What really helped us was we set up a time once a week to talk. I would write daily and before our once a week talk I would look over what I had written. It helped me zero in on what was bothering me for the week. This helped us focus on it one time a week. I think for my husband it helped him prepare and know when it was going to be a hard talk instead of thinking every call or if he came home one night what was he going to face. I have not been easy on my husband but at a certain point the sporadic and/or daily conversations were too much for both of us. The rest of the week we focused on doing other things together. Playing golf, going for a walk, making dinner together etc. These talks helped so much. Through these talks he became less defensive. It really was transformative. My husband is a totally different person. He said on dday he grew up and became a totally new person. It was still a process and not an easy one. I also expected this was going to be hardest for me however at past three years for us at least it has been hardest for my husband. This has been unexpected. For a long time I was so upset about what he did to me, us and our kids but in the end I am most sad how he let himself down the most.
DeleteAlso I would suggest checking out this article. My husband brought it home somewhat early in the process. He is not a big reader but this article hit him and he still refers back to it over 3 years later. I love John Gottman's work. All of his books are really good in my opinion. Also we saw the one man play of Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus. This format really hit home with my husband too. I will say my husband is in the mental health field so he has way more knowledge, training and professional experience than most people. The article was in The Atlantic and call The Masters of Love.
Lily Love, I just passed my 3 year D-day and the first almost 2 years were awful much of the time. I was a mess. I could not believe my husband had a secret life and it almost killed me. I went through emotional hell. I am the "matriarch" of the family and so many people are in my circle so making time for myself to fall apart and put myself back together initially was really, really hard. I went to counseling myself, I walked, I went to the gym, I took classes on Mindfulness, I learned to meditate, I learned how to breathe, I did yoga, I journaled, I read tons of Buddhist literature, especially Pema Chodron and Jack Kornfield. I basically went nuts inside and put on a happy face. It took me a very long time to really understand that everything I ever did that was out of character for me and my own moral compass was nobody's fault but my own. I had to own every thing I ever did in my 67 years. Once I accepted that truth it became easier to see that all the choices my husband made belonged to him alone. He planned and executed every single prostitute adventure without a flipping care or thought to anyone else. In fact, he has learned so much about himself after therapy and similar things I did to finally accept what a fucked up life he had with a distant and harsh father and narcissist mother. He never talked about his childhood abuse, emotional, physical and sexual. Early on when i constantly cried and asked "why did you do this?" and his answer was always, "I don't know." it was excruciatingly painful for me to hear but many months after disclosure after he had done a lot of "work" on himself in counseling he was able to see clearly how he just lived on auto-pilot and how truly screwed up his thinking is. He still has his flaws and we are often thrown into unpleasant conversations because of his response to me but it is working better than ever. Although I still thing about everyone around me when I do things I pretty much veto anything I do not want to do. I tell him what I want. When I gave him a chance to grow up and stop his porn and whores, I told him he had one chance with me. One. Not an ooopppsss. Nope. Just one. I went to see an attorney early on so I knew what I was entitled to. That shocked him. I don't think he ever thought I would actually do that although he did believe his marriage would be over if I found out. Because we have been married for several decades and had adult children and grandchildren I knew the profound effect it would have on everyone if we split up and divorced so initially I told him I'd give it a year to see if he could change. I really did not know but I needed time to think and plan. I rarely regret staying with him but a big part of that is that he has been able to stay away from porn and whores. He says because of the books he read, the therapy he went to, the mindfulness classes he took including one for addictions, he is able to stay present and control his mind when thoughts are negative. I just want to be able to deal with me. Not him. I want to be able to remain calm regardless of what is happening around me. I practice my calming mantras daily, I meditate, I do not watch the news, I make my exercise a priority and I see my friends and family. I spent my entire life taking care of everyone else and now I am taking care of me.
DeleteLLP i JUST recently found out the mr steam wanted much the same. But you’d never know by asking him. I am so damn tired by the end of the week or day that i never thought about this and he gave me NO clue that this is what the wanted. What i want is help. Which is kinda BS. I want him to participate in the House, inside or outside without acting like he’s doing me a big favor. I say thank you ALL the time. Not him. And it’s not him trying to be rude, I’m just so effing competent. He doesn’t notice the towels washed. They are just always there. We’re in the middle of a “thing” right now so it’s hard for me to turn on romance kitten just tomake him happy. But yup. I know, This is what they want. Years ago i wrote a blog here and felt like an idiot when i read it out loud. I said “always be his girlfriend”. It sounded insane. But seeing what you wrote , it makes sense again. Always a two way street though. If you want a girlfriend treat me like one.
ReplyDeleteLily love. I wish i could help. My h is triggered by my triggers too. I understand that. I imagine IF THE WORST thing i HAD ever done in my life was found out and NOW I’d rather be done with it and keep it locked up but no, no someone wants to talk about it. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteMy h feels TOTALLY ashamed of himself. Never ever blames me but has told me that this stuff of his being held to the light is HORRIBLE for him. And although i think And sometimes say “well that’s too bad”’ i try not to shame him because he beats himself up anyeay and any lashing out is just defensiveness which he has got to get through. This whole “ you ruined my day” is a damn bit much to put on you. I would totally take this situation to your shrink And get their thoughts. Is your H taking responsibility? Is he seeing a shrink? My therapist commends my h on how he handles this stuff, but H never puts the blame on me. For all his foibles i can’t fault him on this. And because he never blames me i am triggered less. There is a line in here somewhere about getting what you need and beating the crap out of him with what you have. I’ve def crosses it. It will happen. We all learn. Including, hopefully, your H
Very, very good and insightful post Steam. I appreciate that you remind me that he does not like to reminded by me of the absolutely worse part of his past under any circumstances. My spouse never blames me for anything. He owns his past, his choices, his screwed up thinking and his lying and cheating ways. It always helps me when you or someone posts about the SHAME our spouses feel and how they wallow in it. Mine seems to be doing pretty well. I'm doing OK too but I know that there will be things that present themselves to me that I will struggle with.
DeleteBeach Girl - I think that's the worst part. They have their own shame and we feel guilty about exposing it because while we want them to hurt like we hurt ... we also don't. I think it's the motherly instinct in most of us ...
DeleteI'm a fixer. I remember early on reading about how they would feel shame, etc. And I made it my job to help him with that. I tried to facilitate his recovery. Ha! How sad? Here, I'm bleeding profusely over here ... but allow me to tend to your scratch first.
Now - I am still delicate in my approach (99.9% of the time at least ... other times the lion comes out) ... but I am no longer denying my wounds are there too.
It's such a delicate balance some days.
Just because I feel like "Chatty Cathy" today I'm throwing this out. I saw it on FB and took a screen shot.
ReplyDeleteA saint was asked, "What is anger?"
He gave a beautiful answer, "It is punishment that we give our self, for someone else's mistake.
Amen
Thank you
DeleteBeach girl can you please give me your tools from your tool box. I desperately need them.
DeleteLilyLove, I answered you in your first post above.
Delete