Feeling Stuck, Part 17 (Please post here. Part 16 is full)

202 comments:

  1. Having good days and bad days as I deal with residual depression and weakness. It doesn't help that I'm constantly worried about money, and that my former H keeps calling and texting me with HIS depression, telling me I'm his only friend and that he will always love me. It's too little, too late. When I was crying, trying to have faith, holding on to scraps of hope, and huddling on bathroom floors, he was pretending to try to save our marriage, swearing honesty and love, while still sending promises and messages of love to her. When I finally realized that I was never, ever going to be able to trust his words again, I reached the Point of No Return. And I instigated the divorce. I think, now that it is final, that he is in shock - he never really believed that I would close the door so completely. I think things have gone awry with him and her - I don't ask, because I don't want to be lied to - and he is estranged from or won't talk to anyone else. He keeps bringing up my support system like I should feel guilty that I have people to talk to and he does not. He is depressed and lonely, and I am sad for him, but I have to find a way to move on.
    There was a time when I needed to be indulgent with myself. Now I think maybe it's time to be tough with myself. I'm facing financial difficulties and single parenthood, and I need to put on my Big Girl pants. Even though sometimes (often) I still want to curl up like a child and shut out the world.
    Hugs to my Sister Warriors!

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    1. Phoenix,
      Yes, I think you need to draw really clear boundaries around your interaction with him. It needs to be restricted to information (facts, arrangements, etc.) regarding your kids. That's it. His situation is entirely based in choices he made. No point in protecting him from the consequences of those choices by being his "friend".
      As for curling up, sometimes that's the smartest approach. Shut things out and nurture your own soul until you're ready the face the world again. Phoenix, you are on the path to something better. Just because you can't see it yet doesn't mean it's not there.

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    2. Phoenix, when I left first husband due to physical abuse. Even as horrible as it seems that would be a no brainer. I was like a dog who had been chained for 5 years then sudden let out of the yard. I remember feeling lost, broke, scared and uncertain. Eventually as life goes on it is a different type of healing but still healing. He is trying to pull you back into his drama life he choose. You were probably his one stability in life, loyal, truthful and kind. You walked through that door now close it. Elle is right all this new uncertainty and no money is will get better. A path, new life is there for you and you will see it. I bet thousands of women who read about what you did only wish they had the same courage. Keep holding on to your other supports it helps. He wanted this. He sought this. He left you. Just say fuck you, he is still toxic like nuclear waste that glows in the dark, especially that dick between his legs. Don't fall for the poor me routine only OW do that. I really admire you.

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    3. Thank you, LLP! I appreciate the words of encouragement from a warrior who has been through so much and us still standing!

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    4. Phoenix, I relate so much to your story. I only wish I had your courage! I'm stuck between wanting to save my 30 year marriage and feeling ready to move on. I believe my husband will end up like yours and I know how sad it will make me. But you rightly put yourself and your sanity first which I find very hard. I have always put H first, and I still feel that loyalty.

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  2. Elle and Hopeful 30 I agree with what you said. My practice assignment is to take everyone at their word. The betrayal has me stuck in a threaten state most of the time in my thoughts. Sure take someone at their word? Right, I already did that. But I can't feel threatened happy. For example, My husband says where do want to eat lunch? I say Chinese. We go there and afterward he says I hate Chinese. Before I would have felt guilty, selfish and sad. But I'm learning that is on him became se he didn't speak his mind. It is not my fault he didn't speak his mind just like it is not my fault he made bad choices. I didn't know learning how to let happiness is so damn complicated but simple too.

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    1. We have a lot of tendencies in our marriage like this too. And it has improved but still continues. I too have stopped feeling bad. I used to apologize all the time and for stuff I did not need to apologize for. My husband will ask where I want to eat. I will throw out 2-3 ideas and in the end he will say no to each and we end up somewhere else. Yet from the start he will not come up with a place. This is so common. I feel like if is all connected to his personality. Like I said it has gotten better it used to start fights. Sometimes I say I will not suggest a place unless he accepts it and goes where I choose. And I could care less if is about his routine and production. I have really worked hard at this not blaming myself or feeling bad. We have it with the kids too. I am the primary caregiver so I will make decisions and I hate when he comes home and contradicts me or will change what I said. I will have spent a lot of time and energy dealing with it and poof. Or I will be in the middle of talking and he swoops in. And it is complicated by his professional bg. He has years of examples and experience with almost every scenario. It is a challenge but I am standing up for myself more and more.

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    2. Wow. I spent much of my life doing this. Trying to please everybody else and feeling guilty because I couldn't succeed (wasn't for lack of trying!!). Agreeing to go along with something and then making it clear that it wasn't what he wanted is so passive-aggressive. And clearly triggers your stuff, which is responsibility for others' feelings. It's complicated at first but once you get the hang of being responsible for your OWN feelings and letting others take responsibility for HIS feelings, it really does get a lot more simple. Doesn't mean you won't slip into old patterns (I do!!) but you'll more quickly pull yourself out.

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  3. I have a question. My husband gave the psycho bitch kindergarten teacher much nicer gifts and they had their own intimate Christmas. So I hate Chrismas. My therapist said it will take years to get over this. My husband feels terrible because it affects my adult children at Christmas as well. Mom (me) was the one who made Christmas an extravaganza. Well mom has flushed this down the toilet. Last year Elle said make Christmas your own which worked last year. I'm getting to the question. My husband wants to take me on a romantic cruise from Dec 22 to Jan 3. Of course I want to go. How do I explain to my adult children that nothing is the same anymore? How can I make them understand I can't go back and be that extravaganza mom again? Ever. My daughter-in-law said last night "Christmas was so much fun until his affair." Needless to say how do I get through to them that our family dynamics have changed? Any thoughts are appreciated. The therapist says how they feel you can't control. She doesn't understand how close our family is to each other so that is difficult. When I talk to my children my mouth goes to mush and it is like a statement but has a whine of an apology to it. Any ideas?

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    1. I understand and it is so hard. My kids do not know anything since they are pre teen. Lots of dates and experiences trigger bad feelings for me still. My husband says you (I) need to have corrective emotional experiences. He is big on this. Basically he is a proponent of not avoiding what is coming up and not building it up or anticipating bad. On the flip side we talk about what makes me dread, have anxiety or not want to experience the bad memory/holiday/vacation location etc. We talk in advance about what will help it be different. This has worked to a degree. And he also says this can take years and repeated positive experiences. Also creating new traditions. I think maybe this could work for your family. The reality is his affair did change everything for everyone and he has to bear that burden. But maybe this is the year you do something different. Go on the cruise but establish a new family tradition and have your husband be a part of it. Just ideas. But maybe by making it change and different for all of you it can be happy, new and positive. For me I figure if I am not happy in my marriage it is not good for anyone. And I think no matter what age the kids are it is so important for them to see the hard work and it sounds like you both are doing a lot of work and your best.

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    2. LLP, My dday was Dec. 20, 2015 so Christmas has been forever changed for me as well. Or so I think now. It sucks. I barely remember Christmas last year as I was in a total fog. I'm wondering what this one will look like. I'm already dreading it as I'm sure my emotions will be all over the place. My adult children do not know about the affair, but I'm sure they have their suspicions.

      I know that others have said it better than I can but maybe in time (that word I dread - time) you'll feel differently about Christmas. In time, you'll find a new fun for your family at Christmas.

      If you want to go on this special cruise, go and enjoy it. In our family we don't always celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25th because our daughter sometimes has to work that day. I suggest having Christmas with your children prior to the cruise. Go and enjoy the special time with your husband. While this year Christmas might not the be extravaganza your children are used to, maybe it is time to pass the torch on to someone else while you and your husband work on your relationship.

      I'll be thinking good thoughts for you as work your way through this chapter.

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    3. LLP,
      Just like in the above post, it sounds like you're, to some extent, taking responsibility for their disappointment that things are different rather than acknowledging their disappointment without holding yourself accountable for it.
      For instance, the conversation could go something like this: your daughter-in-law: "Christmas used to be so much fun until his affair." You: "Yes, I miss those Christmases too. But as you know, I just find them too difficult given all the pain that time of year triggers. I'm hoping things will get better with time but what if we sat down and reimagined Christmas together so that you feel as though it's still a special time of year and I'm not triggered or blindsided by pain?" And then...listen to what really felt special to them (was it a meal? gifts? music?). Could you begin to celebrate New Year's instead? Or winter solstice? Or Lynn Day?

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    4. OMG what would I do without your help? I'm going to incorporate Hopeful, lost and Elle's post. Elle, thank you for the script example it makes sense. I'll ask her out to lunch and have this conversation. I just didn't think about asking her what makes it special. Thanks everyone so much for taking the time out of your day to respond.

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    5. And Lynn...when she tells you, just listen. Don't immediately assume responsibility for her feelings. Don't immediately think you need to DO something to somehow make things okay again. You don't. Just listen to her. Acknowledge HER disappointment. Maybe she loved it so much because it made her feel special. Maybe she felt like a kid again. Maybe her own family's Christmases were awful and this was letting her rewrite that old script. Whatever her feelings, they're valid. BUT SO ARE YOURS. So...just listen. And then see if you two can brainstorm something that feels uniquely yours.

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  4. Phoenix the good thing about divorce is you don't have to listen to his self obsessed shit anymore.. He made his bloody bed let him lie in it, you my dear need to take care of yourself and your girls.. Your h never expected you to initiate divorce and now his affair has gone tits up he's turning to you.. Give him the heave ho Phoenix!!!! Financially it will be a struggle, make sure he is paying his fair share and remember as much as you have your bad days they will be more good.., I'm too thinking about divorce Phoenix I can't stomach any more of my h bullshit excuses for a man... I've tried to talk to him about it and he ignores me like he doesn't believe I will do it... I would like him to be on board but I know he would never agree to a divorce so it would be me initiating it and that's the hardest bit for me.. Living with that decision. I want to be sure I'm making the right decision as that would be something else he would blame me for.. It's so frustrating how these men work but ultimately they always end up unhappy if they refuse to pull their head out of their asses...

    Phoenix your such a brave lady, ypur doing the best you can in the circumstances.. You will be just fine you'll see.. Wishing you the best.. Lots a love xxx

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    1. Sam, thank you for your words of encouragement. It sounds like this is a really difficult time for you. I hate that your H is making it more difficult. As frustrating as my ex can be, at least he gave me a quick, no-contest divorce like a gentleman, and never tried to blame me for it. At least, not yet....like I said, he's still working through the shock.
      I think you are wise to take your time and consider carefully. One thing that made the process easier for me was the certainty that I was doing the right thing. Being undecided is, I think, the hardest part. I don't recommend divorce if you think there is a chance that your marriage can be rebuilt. But if and when you do make the decision to divorce, don't let him make you feel guilty. You did not start this chain of events, he did. You are doing what you have to do to heal, find peace, and rebuild your life. You get to decide how best to do that. I know that you know, intellectually, that it is not your fault that divorce is on the table. But emotionally, sometimes we buy into that guilt story. We need to hear someone say: You have a right to find happiness. You have a right to choose the life that will give you the peace of mind and the healing you need. Unhappy, guilty people are manipuative, and they are looking for a way to shift some of their guilt onto your shoulders. Don't let them con you into believing that this is your fault. It is healthy to forgive them, to let go of the past, but it is not healthy or right to let them burden you with guilt. You have enough grief and regret to shoulder.
      I prayed that I would be shown truth, and guided to the best decision, and I was. I pray the same for you, Sam. I pray that you will find truth, and that you will be able to accurately assess your options and choose the best path. And remember what Elle says: take the best next step. You don't have to make life-altering, irrevocable decisions now. You can choose one step at a time, until it becomes clearer to you which way you should go.
      God bless you and bring you peace and healing. Hugs!!!

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  5. I copied the below post from the last string as it filled up. I am curious if anyone else has felt this way. Bascially I am struggling with day to day normal life setting in. And what feels like to me a decrease in attentiveness and affection. Part of it I think stems from me feeling like he has been less than honest as I describe below. Nothing huge but again in the wake of betrayal everything hits harder. I feel myself pulling away and being more cautious.

    I am torn on his disclosures. I feel like I am not sure I want to hear it or am capable of processing it. However, I feel like it is something to encourage for him to confide in me and tell me his thoughts. I know I am sensitive about a lot of things that happen basically triggers. Sometimes it is how he looks or talks to me or something related to his family happens. It is like a primal feeling it just takes me back to the affair years. I do not focus on these things or obsess over them but when they come up it is almost like a shock or flash back. And back then I might not have liked it but I connect those behaviors with the affairs now. And as we get farther along in this process I feel like things are loosening up maybe. He will say he will tell me something. For example, he told me he would not look at pornography. Well recently I asked him and he admitted he had. Then he said he said originally he would not look at it but if he did then he would tell me. Well I do not remember that part. Maybe he did say that but now I feel like I am dealing with an attorney or need transcripts. And in the end the point is he did not tell me till asked. Well my mind goes to what if one of the ow contacts him. Will he only tell me if asked. Related to the pornography he really confuses me. He used to say it was not a big deal boys will be boys... Well then I really pressed him on it and I did push him on this due to his professional background. He deals with sex offenders and I know he has had to deal with this in his practice. What he was telling me was so backward. So I told him either he was delusional, lying to me or not up to date and not treating his patients with proper information. Well he has come around. He says he knows our relationship is better with him using as little pornography as possible. He said in the past two months he only looked at it twice if I can believe that. He said he is not even sure why he looked at it and it is not something he got any great satisfaction from and it all confuses him. So I am not sure where to go with all that. And this is exactly how he described both affairs and anyhing else he did. For me I makes me question did he tell me the truth or is this how he glosses over things. Or does he not truly understand this. This is where sometimes I wonder if our beliefs and morals are just too different. I hear how he wants to be and what he wants to stand for and he is making great strides at this but is this who he is? Or is he someone that really only wants to look out for himself, is selfish, immature, not put other people first, etc...

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    1. Hopeful30,
      I wonder if it would help if you wrote down what's happening. Like you, I often get muddled in the actual situation because I get bogged down in the details ("did he really say that?" "did I agree to that?") when here are the facts:
      •he admits porn negatively impacts your marriage
      •he still looks at porn
      •he knows it violates your trust
      •he still looks at porn
      •he doesn't tell you when he look at porn unless asked
      •he wants you to trust him again and trust his judgement

      Put that way, it's pretty clear that there's a problem. It removes the minimizing, the rationalizing, the defences, the he said/she said. Porn is a problem in your marriage. It upsets you that he looks a porn. He does it anyway and then, rather than cop to it in a straightforward way, argues with you about the semantics of your conversation and who said what when and whether porn is really that bad and blah blah blah.
      Forget all that.
      He wants you to trust him again after the worst possible trust violation he could have done. It's that simple. Every time he reveals himself to be less than fully transparent and honest, he corrodes any trust he might have built up. He muddies your feelings. He can argue whether or not porn is harmful or not in some academic journal. With you, it's personal. With you, it's about your feelings, not some abstract concept. With you, he's got some mending to do. He can either accept that or not. But it's manipulative and lacking in empathy to get into these ridiculous verbal sparring matches when he knows damn well he's harming his own marriage.
      Hopeful30, those feelings you have when he's not being totally transparent and honest are telling you something important. Not necessarily that he's cheating (though, depending on your agreement with him, porn might be considered cheating) but that you aren't emotionally safe with him. That his desire to protect himself and defend his actions are more important than the pain you experience from them.

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  6. I am stuck and it has been only 90 days since I found out about my husbands affair. What I need help with most hearing from others about when the guarded/untrusting feeling lightens. I make so many stories in my mind that I drive myself crazy. My husband and I are going to counseling. He told me about the affair which supposedly only lasted about 2 months. We have been married 15 years and together for 22. I feel like after all this time I have been clueless and don't trust my instincts, judgement, or much of what he says. I am just accepting right now as that seems to be all I can do. Any strength or hope about relief from this guarded feeling would be much appreciated. I can't stand living like this.

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    1. Amy,
      If you look at your response as a logical response to new information, it might not seem as concerning. Of course, you don't trust him right now. He's proven himself untrustworthy. It's a pretty normal part of this process to go back and re-examine history through the lens of this new information. It's also pretty normal to question your own judgement. If we were wrong about this critical piece of info, says our brain, what else could we be wrong about?
      An important piece of your healing is processing all this pain and confusion. Do you have a therapist who can help with that? Once you begin to feel stronger yourself, your faith in your own judgement will come back. The world will feel less scary because you'll have greater faith in yourself. You'll realize your own strength and, with work, come to a place where, whatever your husband might do or not do, you know that you'll be okay.
      Time is also key. With daily evidence that he's working hard to regain your trust, to become a man of integrity, your anxiety will lessen. If it doesn't (and sometimes it doesn't), that usually indicates some sort of post-trauma response which is keeping you stuck.
      Ask yourself how much of your guardedness is coming from your stories and how much is coming from evidence in your life. So often, the stories well tell ourselves are just plain wrong. Similarly, the stories that cheating men tell themselves (my wife doesn't care about me, she's not interested in sex, we've grown apart, etc. etc.) are used to make their choices somehow okay. Challenged on them, they realize they're lying to themselves.
      Challenge yourself. Are the stories based on anything other than anxiety? Can you check in with your husband to get genuine reassurance? Can you check up on him to rebuild trust? (Sounds counter-intuitive, but by checking up on him and repeatedly seeing evidence that he's keeping his word, trust is rebuilt).
      Hang in there, Amy. I can tell you that it gets easier. Ninety days is still so incredibly raw.

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    2. The hyper-vigilance is normal and natural. Yes, it is a horrible way to feel, but it is a perfectly natural response and it is NOT your fault. You have been emotionally traumatized, and it's going to take a long time to heal. And to rebuild your idea of reality.
      Hyper-vigilance serves an
      practical purpose, too. Sadly, many affairs don't end quickly and neatly. Often there is more to find out, additional Ddays. Trickle-truth. I thought my H's affair was over, and it took months to find out it wasn't. I thought I was paranoid, but I wasn't. I was RIGHR. He was still lying and cheating.
      There are a lot of success stories on this blog, strong women who did the patient, excruciating work of rebuilding, and reaped the reward of a better, stronger marriage. Husbands who committed to the slow task of earning trust. And then there are stories like mine, in which the repeated betrayals became too much and the marriage failed. I devoutly hope that you are in the first group, but it is too soon to tell. I know I am somewhat jaded by my experiences, but I have to say: distrust is smart right now. Trust has to be rebuilt, brick by brick, and it takes longer than 90 days. It's not fair that you have to suffer emotional uncertainty in the meantime. But it's inevitable. And it's smart. Make him earn your trust. Eventually, one way or another, it will get easier. God bless and keep you, Amy.

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    3. Thank you for your feedback. I am feeling better each week. I have now come to realize that it does not matter what I think. What matters is what really happens every day and how I feel. I am still very guarded, but do see that he takes every step to ensure me that his is where he says he is, that he loves me, that he wants to be a better father and husband and he wants our marriage to continue. if he is manipulating right now, he is a master at it then. I realize I can't waist time being distrusting and searching for evidence against the positives I experience, that does not help. Either this does or does not work. Time will ultimately tell.

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    4. Elle, you said something about post-trauma response that keeps us stuck? What do you mean by that? It's been 6 1/2 months since d-day. My husband has been working so hard so do everything he can to gain my trust back. We are still in counseling. I have good days and bad days still. He gave me passwords to everything and I get all his calls and text. His choice. But no matter what he does I can't get past what he did to me. We were so happy. He says he was happy, in love with me and knew he wanted to be with me. He doesn't know why he did what he did. His affair lasted 8 months until I found out. He called it off and hasn't had contact with the OW since. She has tried and he blocks her,so she changes her number and tries again..still he blocks her. He says he's sorry at least once a day...tells me how much he loves me etc...but I feel like it's fake. He told her all the same things. What do I do? I can't seem to let it go. I hate him for being so heartless and selfish!!! I see were some h aren't even trying, but mine is...he's going over board to try and fix this. He prays for us every night since this has happen. He has gotten us books to read together...he reads to me. And here I am...I can't let it go. We can be having such a good day and one little thing reminds me of what he did and I'm done!! I'm angry, mad, asking all the same questions again over and over. The stuff he did and said to her...I can't let it go. What do I do? Please help me!

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    5. Feeling Lost,
      I'm not sure there's a one-size-fits-all answer to your question. For starters, six months seems like an eternity but, in this case, isn't really so long to absorb such a deep betrayal. Even with your husband's support, there's no way around the fact that he hurt you deeply. And that takes time to heal. The fact that the OW continues to resurface also likely has a piece in this -- it's hard to move past something with constant reminders of what happened.
      Finally, it might be worth seeing a therapist on your own to deal specifically with YOUR pain. Not about healing your marriage but healing YOU. When we've been hurt so badly, we can block all feeling. We get to a point where we're functioning. The pain isn't quite so biting. But we've closed ourselves off from a lot of feeling. We've numbed ourselves in order to get through. But by numbing the bad stuff, we also numb the good stuff. And there's undoubtedly a lot of fear involved. To move forward, you need to kinda close your eyes and jump. And that's terrifying, especially when you've been through such pain.
      One more thing: a therapist could help you with the triggers that take you back to that horrible place of remembering what happened. You can get strategies but start by, whenever a trigger arises, reminding yourself that that was in the past. It's not happening now. You are safe. Mindfulness, which is essentially just keeping yourself focused on the now, can be really helpful with this. It's a reminder that our suffering comes from living in the past or worrying about the future.

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  7. Beach Girl here with a question. I'm 14 months out now and overall I believe things are moving in the right direction. I'm beginning to see my core self emerge in ways I forgot existed. I've spent my 36 years of marriage pretty much doing things I knew my husband "approved" of so breaking that pattern of behavior has been interesting. For example, I just got a tattoo with my daughter. He was horrified that I, at 65, would get a tattoo. (Um, I'm still horrified that he spent a freaking fortune on hookers and whores but what the hell, right?" Anyway, a week ago I had to take off my wedding rings because I somehow managed to get a nasty gash under the band. The gash has healed but I really do not want to put them back on again. The meaning I gave them disappeared on D-day and the promise they stood for was broken shortly after marriage. How do you feel about your wedding rings? Do you wear them? I'm about to remove my diamond necklace too, the one that holds the first diamond he gave me. Bleh. It is as if the building of a new life can't happen if I'm reminded of the string of broken promises. Will this too pass? Love you all.

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    1. Beach Girl,
      I had a set of three rings I wore.. A combination of the band I got when we got engaged, the diamond I got on our wedding day (we did it backwards!) and a coordinating band he gave me for our first anniversary. I never wear all of them together anymore. For awhile, I took to wearing my mom's wedding band which I had her diamond bezel set on after she passed away but it needs to go to the jeweler to be repaired so I am back to simply my band or another of my mom's rings. Some days I wear nothing... generally that is on the days where I feel sad. The rings have lost their meaning to me. Someday, i plan to have a new set made with my mom's ring and my old wedding set. My husband wears a new band since I can't stand to see the original one, which he never bothered to remove when he was screwing the skank.
      I think you should do whatever feels right to you. And good for you on the tattoo! :-)

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    2. Beach girl
      I think the answer to your question is different as to each individual here. I earned my diamonds during the years of marriage before his midlife crisis and I'm not about to give mine up for a piece of shit whore that tried like the devil to be me! Yes he enjoyed his extra sex yes he gave her earrings but he gives me his love and so for me I just be damn if I will give up my rings. However my h had never worn a band as he lost the first one when he lost weight in the first year of our marriage and the second one lived in a tray on the dresser as he almost lost his finger in an accident think about Jimmy Falons from the tv show. Also all those years he was a plant engineeri and jewelry was prohibited. Now he has a brand new ring and he takes pride in wearing it because it means that I was willing to give him another chance to show me how much he loves me!

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    3. I took off my wedding band and then, six months later when my mom passed away, I slipped on her wedding band and kept it on for a few months. As time passed and I put some weight back on, I discovered I couldn't get it off. Now, ten years later, it's still on and I couldn't tell you where my wedding band is.

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  8. Hey beach girl, well done on getting a tattoo I think that's so cool : ) I like you for many years did what I thought would be good for my husband and what he liked.. Now I'm doing it for myself don't give a flying fuk what he thinks anymore it's my 40th in 8 weeks and I plan to go all out in everything, something that will kill my husband of, he's OK to do the hell what he likes and expects me to be ok with it.. Well he can crawl back under his stone.. I've seriously had enough of his shit.. I can't get divorce out of my head right now it's their all day every day from the minute I wake up I'm just wondering if that's my sign to go with it. We've been separated for 3 months following d day 2 and I just want out of this marriage I don't want to be part of his circus anymore...

    I too have thought about my wedding rings and will look at swapping them for another piece of jewellery I agree beach girl out with the old and in with the new.. If you are wanting a fresh start replace anything that reminds you of his affair.. In my case that means getting rid of my h. But that's where I'm at right now.

    Keep self emerging beach girl!! I love it.. : )

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  9. How do you get to the point where you can trust again? He's doing everything right, I think, but still a little voice in my head says don't believe. It's eating me alive because I've never been the woman that checked cell phones or called to make sure someone is where they're supposed to be. As I said to him I would never have done to him what he did to me. How do you forgive someone who hurt you even though they promised they never would? Loren

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    1. Loren
      I don't know how far you are on the path to recovery from the trauma of dday but, forgiveness didn't come for me until we were rid of the ow from contact. Even then my h was working his butt off trying to make me see the change in his life to be a better man for himself first and for me as his priority. It took months of consistency on his part in order for me to see those changes. Trust the blind trust that I had prior to dday may never return completely but the way my h treats me now is leading me towards the beginning of the trust. The experience he had crushing the heart of three people leads me to believe my h will never look at sex the same. He was looking for the excitement of new sex but found out women for the most part can't just have sex it's too emotional. When he first tried to break it off with her, she supposedly was dating other men to try to move on but I suspect it was to try to make my h jealous. This went on for over a year and a half before dday . So finding trust for me has been a slow process but it is slowly getting better! Best of wishes for you to get through to a better place! Hugs!

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    2. Loren,
      Yes, I do think time plays a big role in this. Over time, with consistent evidence that he's changing, that he's working hard to become a man of integrity, that he's rebuilding a marriage with you and able to show up emotionally and support you through the pain, that's how trust is rebuilt. In the short term, it's hard (and not too wise) to just trust again. He's shown you that he's capable of lying and cheating. It only makes sense to not trust him until he earns that trust back, day by day.

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    3. Thank you both for your reply! It's a real struggle at times. If he has to work late, or if he doesn't pick up the phone when I call it sends my mind into panic. So far every time he's called back within minutes, but what a shitty way to have to live! Last night we were talking (nothing not related to the betrayal) and he said I don't like to follow rules set by other people. (this is a personality trait that has helped him be successful) and I looked at him and said ALL of my rules need to be followed. He assured me that's exactly what was going to happen. I hope in time I can relax and believe it. Loren

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  10. Hi Beach Girl,

    I have also really really struggled with my wedding ring!!! I am 13 months out from the big dday and have had periods (months at a time) that I did not wear it and then when feeling more connected would wear it ( also up to a few months at a time). I am currently in a phase of not wearing and for the first time wondering if I ever will again.

    The next right step for us is to live apart for awhile. It is not a legal separation and neither of us want divorce. In fact we want a second marriage together! But right now there is just too much pain, blame, confusion ect... To sort things out in 1 house. We both need to some reflecting, healing, growing individually for us to have an opportunity to come back together in a marriage we both want and deserve.

    I am really pretty scared because what if one or both of us grow and learn we don't want to be with the other. This is super painful to think about (aahhhh just breath in the moment Becky). Also, I very nervous because this approach we are trying (with our MC) is not really seen very often..... I have never seen an example.... So I think people will just think I'm crazy, that my husband left me and I'm just in denial, that divorce is a forgone conclusion. But I really know in my heart that this is what we need and that it is the best chance of us finding our way back to each other. I know it in my bones! I am finding it hard to have the courage to publicly stand in this truth though. I have only told one supportive friend about this. I have not told my parents or brothers yet..... They don't know about the affair. So how to explain living apart without revealing the affair??? I really don't want to hurt my family and H by reavealing the affair especially because hopefully we will come through this together.

    Anyway, back to rings, I have been thinking of maybe buying myself a new wedding band. Because through this journey no matter how it turns out, I am really hoping to learn deep in my soul that I am THE ONE!!

    Love to all
    Becky

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    Replies
    1. Beach Girl, as said Theresa said above, responses to wedding
      /engagement rings differ person to person. For months, I very much did not want to take mine off - it felt like giving up on the marriage. When I made the final decision and asked him to leave, I took them off. Eventually I started wearing my 10-year anniversary ring again - I told him it was a friendship ring, to symbolize that I would continue to be a friend to him. But that may have been foolish. I'm not sure if I will continue to wear it or not. Time will tell.
      Becky, I definitely experienced the difficulty of explaining separation/divorce to people without telling them about the affair. It's hardest with the kids. They don't understand why their parents' 18 year marriage is suddenly over, and I can't tell them. All I can say is that I tried really hard, for a long time, until it just hurt too much to try anymore. And that makes no sense to my 13-year-old. Why should it?
      I so admire your devotion and dedication to your marriage, Becky! I am proud to call you a friend. I will continue to pray for you and your situation.

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    2. Becky,
      I think you'd be surprised at those who separate in order to get the space necessary to think clearly about what's next and to focus on salvaging the good and eliminating the bad.
      Do what you're doing, taking it moment by moment. You don't owe anybody any more than feels right. They might be confused but none of us really knows what's going on in anyone's marriage.
      Buying yourself a wedding band, symbolizing your commitment to yourself, is a beautiful idea.

      Delete
  11. Hey Beach Girl. I took my rings off on D Day. They are sat in box at the back of a draw. My husband and I are on the path to reconciliation but I have said I will never put those rings back on, as for me like you their meaning have gone and it they are almost like a constant trigger for me. Our joint counsellor suggested maybe one day we could get new ones, say new vows one day....I don't know, only time will tell.
    I love that you got a tattoo, good on you!

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  12. Anonymous,

    I have struggled with my rings and other meaningful gifts. Honestly the only reason I put them on for a long time was so my kids would not ask questions. We are 17 months out and I have felt better about wearing them. Maybe it is wrong but I have never felt like our marriage died. To me it has been more of an evolution. I did bring up to my husband that I wants to consider selling everything especially my rings. I wanted to put the money in an account and then maybe some day get something new. We talked a lot about it and he was crushed and I think it might have been the one thing I have said that hurt him most. In the end I have stuck with it since my kids would notice for sure as others would too. But more than that I am making my best effort at this marriage and until I am done if that day were to come I will keep wearing them. I think it is so normal to have these feelings and I think it is a really personal decision in the end.

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  13. HI everyone,
    This is a little off topic, but I'm wondering if any of you are experiencing the same problem....
    My husband and I watch television together in the evenings, and we are always searching netflix for for a series to binge on. Well, it seems that every series we start to watch, has the recurring theme of infidelity throughout, and what starts as a wonderful evening quickly involves in me being triggered. We seriously cannot find anything to watch! So far, infidelity themed (or touched on) shows that we have started: Game of Thrones, House of Cards, Ray Donovan, Wayward Pines, Breaking Bad, and I'm sure others that I am forgetting at the moment. Does anyone have any shows that don't feature infidelity, that they would recommend?? I'm tired of getting blindsided, as the theme isn't typically mentioned in the descriptions. Thanks!
    -Morgan

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    1. This happens to us. It triggers my H worse than me. He said it reminds him of being a sleaze bag. We scan each description. If we watch and if it has an affair then we turn it off. We are 33 months out. I'm at the point if an affair is mentioned, I can handle it but if it is an affair scene I go ballistic. We were at my sons, watching TV. An affair scene came on, I said you either change the channel or I'm leaving the room. They didn't change it fast enough probably in shock, so I left the room and read in bed. My therapist said that was very appropriate for me and boundaries stuff. On Netflicks we watch British murder mystery affairs are mentioned briefly at times but never shown. Foles War or Midsomer Murders. We also like Doc Martain a British series that is so funny. Hang in there. Sometimes during one of those scenes, he says is this bothering you? I say no but grit my teeth because I want him to feel bad. Then he turns it off, obviously upset for awhile. I particularly like the ones that show the husband as real scum bag. Again upsets him so what?

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    2. Morgan,
      Such a good question. Infidelity figures so huge in our popular culture and it's rarely given more than perfunctory treatment. It's depicted as sexy or titillating. Rarely do we see the longtime agony it creates.
      Murder mysteries might be a good choice -- especially if the OW or cheating husband is the one that bites it. ;)

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    3. Anonymous

      Tv is a trigger for me too, living in the uk and being a soap addict unfortunately at present it seems all these soaps are showing is infidelity, i have to bite my tongue, as i so want to mention thats exactly how i felt, or you see she has reacted in the same way i did, i know my hubby feels bad watching them too, but i have to work through this, as otherwise i wouldnt have nothing to watch and i really dont care that hubby feels bad, he brought that on himself.

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    4. Beach Girl

      Regarding rings, i too felt my rings were worth nothing after finding out about the affair, we had been married 23 years and had said we intended renewing our vows on our 25th Anniversary, we reached that milestone last year, however i was not ready to renew our vows ( i still feel he couldnt keep to the first set of vows he made so why bother renewing them)we therefore decided to buy new rings each ( hubby had not worn his for years as it did not fit any longer) he wears his new ring with pride now, and i made sure i had new wedding engagement and eternity rings, no way was i wearing any one of the previous rings again, they are in my jewellery box and their they will stay, i wear my new rings now and we went away to Mexico for our 25th too, another expense i insisted upon, he has asked again about renewing our vows and i have suggested we wait till our 30th anniversary ( hopefully we will reach that together) i want to go to st lucia and we could do it there, however i have said only if i feel it is right and at this moment i am not ready for that step. so you are not alone. stay strong

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    5. The tv trigger happens here too! We can ne having a great time and bam adulterous scene comes on and I start asking him questions if he did things like we are watching. I get this hot feeling in my chest every time I get a trigger, anyone else have this happen?

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  14. Phoenix what you have written makes so much sense to me.. You have made me feel at ease, That I don't have to rush into anything nor be bullied into staying.. My h is unhappy and guilty and part of me thinks he wants me to be the same.. i think many women struggle with whether to stay or go.. Hardest decision I'll ever make I'm sure.. But maybe like you said when I am ready to take the next step it won't be so difficult.

    your h was a gentleman for giving you a divorce with no contest, that must have helped you in such difficult circumstances.

    Thank you Phoenix, you've given me lots to think about I appreciate your time so much.. Lots of love xxx

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    1. Hugs, Sam!!! You're right, it is the hardest decision. I'll be thinking about you and praying for you! Whatever decision you make, I know you will have the strength to see it through.

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    2. Reading your strength to separate is awesome. I will forever wonder if I should have separated. Unlike you you will know 100 percent what is right for you because you tried both worlds. I will always wonder if I separated would I found more peace and discovered like Steam, it's not so bad. So I admire you all, a separation takes Hercules strength.

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  15. I found out 6 months ago my husband of 7 years was having an affair. I moved out a week later. He only admitted to it after I caught him and talked to the OW. She had no idea he was married and was in shock too. He begged for forgiveness and cried and in many words showed his guilt and remorse. I was commited to marriage so told him I'd try to work it out. Then found out more lies he was telling. So for a few months we went back and forth. He never once came to me or vowed to do whatever it took. His words were Great and loving and meaningful. But his actions didn't back up those words. So I decided No contact. It had been 6 weeks then I saw him. He cried and told me he wanted to be a better man for me and he missed me a lot. I told him I missed my husband a marriage but didn't miss him. I always hoped him to become a better man but he didn't put in much effort. Many tears and begin but only words. A week later I saw him coming out of his building with another woman and they crossed the street holding hands and then I followed him to the restaurant which they sat in and took pictures. Confronted them. He said you told me you didn't wanna see me again and didn't miss me. That was his excuse. I was crushed. I know we're not together and he admitted he's lonely. His friends were all my friends and family and he doesn't have anyone here. I get that. Even I have been on dates and met some guys from dating sites. But I'm so mad and hurt and confused and want to a divorce. But a part of me still hopes for that miracle that he will wake up. Am I crazy or foolish?

    -Phool

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    1. Phool,
      I'm so sorry for all you're going through. But I don't think you're foolish at all. You took clear steps to protect yourself when your husband refused to back up his words with actions. And then you discovered when you saw him that he STILL wasn't backing up words with actions. He's showing you who he is. And you're disappointed that he's not a better man. That's perfectly normal. Feel the hurt. Feel the sadness. Feel the confusion. But you say you want a divorce and I think that's a smart decision. It would be nice if he "woke up" but he's giving you no indication that he's going to.

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    2. Thank you Elle. Truly appreciate the feedback. Very thankful for this site although I wish none of us had to be here. I just want the sadness to end. I'm trying to move on and am in better circumstances than some esp since we don't have kids so can do a lot of things to distract myself. But I just can't let go of the Hope. Time heals all :-)

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  16. I found out 6 months ago my husband of 7 years was having an affair. I moved out a week later. He only admitted to it after I caught him and talked to the OW. She had no idea he was married and was in shock too. He begged for forgiveness and cried and in many words showed his guilt and remorse. I was commited to marriage so told him I'd try to work it out. Then found out more lies he was telling. So for a few months we went back and forth. He never once came to me or vowed to do whatever it took. His words were Great and loving and meaningful. But his actions didn't back up those words. So I decided No contact. It had been 6 weeks then I saw him. He cried and told me he wanted to be a better man for me and he missed me a lot. I told him I missed my husband a marriage but didn't miss him. I always hoped him to become a better man but he didn't put in much effort. Many tears and begin but only words. A week later I saw him coming out of his building with another woman and they crossed the street holding hands and then I followed him to the restaurant which they sat in and took pictures. Confronted them. He said you told me you didn't wanna see me again and didn't miss me. That was his excuse. I was crushed. I know we're not together and he admitted he's lonely. His friends were all my friends and family and he doesn't have anyone here. I get that. Even I have been on dates and met some guys from dating sites. But I'm so mad and hurt and confused and want to a divorce. But a part of me still hopes for that miracle that he will wake up. Am I crazy or foolish?

    -Phool

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    1. Phool
      It sounds like both of you are miserable but both are still 'experimenting with other people so in my opinion you can't get the Miracle that you desire until both of you work together to be together. I'm sorry for what I know you are going through and hope you and your h can decide together what it is you want for your future! Hugs!

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    2. Theresa. Thank you. I think that's some
      Good honest advice. We both are miserable. We both wish we could turn back time and don't know how to get through this. So we prob end up making some bad decisions. This site is great because it has stories from all perspectives. Thank you for your feedback and wish none of us had to be on this site.

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  17. Thank you friends for your feedback. This ring thing must be weighing on me heavily because I had a terrible nightmare last night that woke me/us up at 3 AM that involved his wedding ring. This morning I asked him to take his ring off and put it into the safe with my rings. I told him the story around the rings was no longer true. I also told him that my request did not change where we are now or that I love him. He has not said a word yet and the ring is still on his finger. I asked if he wanted to talk to me about it and he declined. I know he is thinking about this and his feedback will be forthcoming. Life should not be this hard. Beach Girl

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  18. Morgan, Beach Girl here. My husband and I have the same problem. We quit watching the television months ago. We have watched the two part show on George Harrison but otherwise, it is very difficult to watch anything on network or cable or whatever. Our world has gotten very small. I am getting used to it and don't mind. We listen to music (Pandora) all the time. Favorites include yoga radio, piano radio, Hawaiian music, classical guitar, etc. It feels like I will never know what "normal" looks like again. Beach Girl

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  19. Yes I took off my rings, had my main diamond re mounted with a diamond band. I also have a bracelet and earrings that was bought for Xmas bang in the middle of their affair. I call them my guilt jewellery. He made a fuss that Xmas more than normal.

    Lol, I've given up. I tend to watch 'Westerns' with John Wayne. Yes I've started to watch so many films/programs but given up. Even the soaps are really bad it's their bread and butter story lines.
    I hate being a betrayed wife. I hate being married to a husband that's cheated. I really hate that no one seems to understand my feelings and think it's something you just forget and move on from, when actually it's all you think about. I met a women at a party at the weekend that looked like her. As she was talking to me, I imagined I was my husband, leaning in to kiss her for the first time. She's dark haired brown eyes, I'm blonde with blue eyes. He'd leant in towards me for over 30 years, how different that must have been.
    I hate when I ask a question, he can't remember doesn't want to remember. Over 3 years, he just won't say. We get past this his way. We forget and move on. Why do I want to know. He says. But not knowing eats you alive. I hate hate hate it so much.
    I'm starting to hate him now, resent him. We have been together since 1981 have 3 children and 2 grand children. He's more part of my life part of my being. The thought of getting to know someone else really does not appeal

    Ok. Finished now. And feel better LOL. going to tidy the kitchen

    Nite ladies xx

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    1. Jane -
      I feel you on the topic of "Hating being a betrayed wife" "hating being married to a cheater". While we are only 13 months out - he is still making the same comments in front of our counselor..."just don't remember", "it's been so long", or the "I am just moving forward" "Why do you want to live in the past"
      My H was with OW for 18 years. My kids are grown and on their own now. But what my H did, all our past experiences, struggles, happy times, family times - feel so tainted by his past actions.
      My H is reserved emotionally - after 18 years of leading a separate life or telling himself "whatever" so he could justify his relationship - has truly screwed him up. He is not making the efforts to help himself that I NEED. I want an emotional connection to him that he hasn't allowed in 18 years - a connection that I watched fade away - because I didn't have the guts to say anything. I blamed myself for years, I mean years. Sounds like your H wants to just "sweep it under the rug" - of course! That way he is not uncomfortable - it's not hard that way...it doesn't remind him of what an ass he was...or bring back the guilt and shame. Who would want to feel that way?? But guess what - I need that. You need that! We need that to move ON. This is how we will move on!
      What was happening in My H's mind, his thinking, his feelings at that time of his life.... oh, he knows. He just doesn't want to go there. It's SO HARD. Brushing it under the rug is NOT going to work for me and doesn't sound like it will for you. Your resentment will grow, your anger will grow.... I can remember 4-5 years ago thinking "Is this it - is this how it's going to be for the rest of my life?" It doesn't have to be -
      My postings over the past few weeks have been ANGRY. I was so MAD that my H was digging in and trying to make me do it his way - which is to FORGET ABOUT IT. I'm afraid I can't do that - it's a part of our life and always will be. My H needs to learn to deal with that in a healthy way - and I hope your H will too.

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  20. I feel like I'm developing an unhealthy obsession with the OW. I look at her social media, I do online searches. It started because I wanted to see what about her was better than me. I discovered the answer. Not. A. Thing. She goes from wealthy man to wealthy man. Really gross in every way possible. She didn't betray me, my H did. Yet she is on my mind a lot. As a friend said to me I'm giving her rent free space in my head and I need to stop. Loren

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    1. Loren,
      I envy the women here who don't do that. I did the same for a long time. What I noticed was that the more time I gave to checking up on her, the worse I felt. I kept telling myself that if I knew she was doing I could protect myself in some way. It was turning into a really negative habit for me and I was keeping myself mired in worrying about what she was doing. Ultimately, there isn't a damn thing I can do about what she does or doesn't do. I decided it had to stop, so I told myself I would quit looking. Yes, I falter. But I keep reminding myself that I never find anything that makes me feel better when I look.
      And as you mentioned, you know there is NOTHING about her that is better than you. Someone on this site once said that OWs are picked primarily because they are willing and available. That's it.
      Hugs!

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    2. As my husband's counsellor told me, these women have nothing that I would want. They're convenient. They're willing.
      It's hard to stop the obsessing but focussing on her is keeping you stuck in that place. You're giving her space in your life, which is edging out better, healthier things. Try any of the behaviour modification strategies -- an elastic band around your wrist that you snap whenever you think of her, a huge stop sign on your computer to remind you NOT to check her social media, visualizing her in the most humiliating way possible, or distracting yourself when thoughts roam to her by picking up a book, calling a friend, going for a walk, putting on music...

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    3. You're both right! Yesterday was a big wake up call for me. I spent hours thinking about her researching her and what did I get? A mind full of turmoil, stomach in knots, and not a single thing was better afterwards! If this keeps up I'm going to contact her, which I haven't and know won't be helpful. Thank you for the great advice!

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    4. Anonymous, Make note of that fact. Put a sign somewhere or try the elastic. What you want is essentially to redirect your brain with a reminder that if you go down that rabbit hole, you'll lose hours of your life and gain only more pain. It's keeping her in your marriage.

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    5. I have been doing this too. I think I was trying to find the Why? By looking at her stuff. My MC suggested I was being stuck in victim or survive mode by doing this. She said the best revenge would be to move into thrive mode. I guess there is a part of me that wishes I could tell her off, see something humiliating happen to her etc. I feel she has no consequences yet here I am in this destruction she and my H left behind. I look at his phone daily. Imagine sending her a letter or texting her not nice things anonymously. I know I won't do these things but I want to...

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    6. Debby
      I know how you feel but I can tell you anything she suffers as humiliating or demeaning will never erase the hurt and humiliation you feel for what this world of hurt caused! I know only because our crazy ow has had the worst heartache of any one I've ever seen the story of here and it was not enough to stop her or make my heartache less. I'm so sorry for what you are living through. It gets better when we choose to get rid of her and live for us! Hugs!

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    7. It somehow feels better to know that how I'm feeling is normal. While not healthy or productive. It's good to know I'm not entirely crazy. I haven't looked at anything on social media. Although she still in my thoughts several times a day. I'm so angry at my H, but it's somehow easier to focus on her. I wish someone could give me a step by step guide to forgiveness, because I don't know how on my own. Loren

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    8. Loren, I agree -- feels better to know I'm not *entirely* crazy.

      I'm sure my cyber-stalking would not be approved by my counselor if I had the guts to admit the extent of it to her, but I actually don't think it has been too bad for me. Here's what I've found:

      1. I'm not on facebook or any other social media, which helps. I had a facebook account for about a year before dday -- but I never loved it and after dday I just couldn't deal so deleted it all. But from what I have been able to find out from Google and public facebook posts, the OW are super pathetic. I suppose I already knew that -- they are OWs -- but it is nice to have world wide web confirmation. No wonder they needed the ego boost of another woman's husband. One has a husband who is waaaaayyyyyy more into his hipster hobby than her (yes, I cyber-stalk him too). And one recently had a baby and got really fat and tired-looking, so that made me happy. I may be fat and tired-looking, but I have 20 years, 2 teenagers, and early menopause on her. Oh, and a cheating husband. So basically, I can do everything better than her, even fat and tired.

      2. This is most important -- I am getting so bored with them. That's the upside of an obsession... like an affair, it flames out. Even if they were interesting (which they are most definitely not) I'd be getting sick of them by now. I think if I had tried to ignore, I would have failed.

      So in my opinion -- for what its worth, I'm certainly no counselor -- obsess away. You are strong and smart and will stop when you need to. And if it ever feels out of control -- then run to your counselor, fess up, and make changes. You can trust yourself. Hugs.

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    9. PS Loren,
      I've battled actual OCD in the past -- so I definitely understand the perils of unhealthy obsession. If thinking about the OW is truly becoming an obsession and you start having compulsions to "control" it, I strongly recommend seeking professional help to change.
      But if you just need to get her out of your system, I say let yourself check her out from safe distance (behind the computer screen) until you get thoroughly bored with her. Don't take on the added burden of feeling guilt, shame, or like you're doing it all wrong just because you are temporarily obsessed with this bitch who inserted her ugly self into your life.
      I think you'll know the difference. Best.

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    10. Sal..Thank you for your replies! Yesterday I did something positive for myself. I spoke to a life coach. I was so skeptical, but ended up talking to this man for over an hour. He didn't even charge me! I cannot even explain how powerful it was. One of my issues had been I had told H I expected him to never have any contact with OW, but in the heat of the moment and the shock I hadn't asked him to block her. I knew from time to time to reached out to him, and he swore he never responded. It was this thing hanging over me. So he asked me why I didn't tell him I needed him to block her. I said he will think I'm jealous and possessive. The life coach said, what does possessive mean? That you only want to be with him and you want to be with someone who ONLY wants to be with you? That doesn't sound negative to me. That's what everyone deserves. So last night I told H. I need you to block this person. She adds no value to your life and is a poison to this relationship. He said he'd gladly block her. I wish I'd done it months ago. Anyway, I'm going to keep seeing this life coach because he gave me some great tools to use to work through these issues. My H and I had a long talk last night. I wasn't angry I just let him hear the pain his actions caused. Because I let myself be vulnerable instead of angry I think for the first time he got it. Because there had been nothing physical, not even meeting, just texts he had minimized it. Loren

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    11. Yes. It would be helpful to have a guide or step by step instructions on how to deal with all this. Guess we missed that class. Like others have said focusing on her won't make you any less hurt or angry at him. youre curious, have thoughts, visuals, replay him and her in your mind even if you've never seen them together. That will only drive you nuts. Focus on you. That drive you nuts too but it won't hurt

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    12. Was it Shakespeare who wrote that trying to get revenge was like taking poison & expecting the other person to die? We all go through the wanting her to feel what we feel. Impossible. The COW can't because she doesn't have the heart or mentality to know how...that's what enabled her to be a whore in the first place.

      I like Elle's suggestion to get her out of your marriage.

      I found that focusing on ME ME ME was the antidote. Know that you ARE better, you have NO shame, NO guilt, NO embarrassment. YOU have done nothing wrong. What a great place to begin!!!

      Hugs,

      Suzanne

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    13. Sal, it may not be typical advice, but I think there is a lot of sense in what you said. I also spent way too much time obsessing and cyber-stalking the OW, and it was a crutch, but it gave me an illusion of control when I needed it. After months of the mushroom treatment, I wanted as much knowledge as I could get. And like you said, eventually it became boring and unnecessary. I haven"t done it for weeks. She's boring, and her significance in my life is fading. I just had to get it out of my system, though.

      Delete
  21. It's a "New Normal", Beach Girl - and it sucks! Jane's right. You feel like "Betrayed Wife" is your new identity, practically stamped on your forehead. For a long time I felt totally defined by it.
    Watching TV/movies with him DID become difficult, Morgan. Infidelity storylines were uncomfortable, but the love stories were just as bad. My brain would rewrite a new ending: "And they lived happily ever after- until he met somebody else and cheated on her." It's getting easier with time though. Lots of time! This THING has reshaped the way I look at the world - but I'm getting better at putting it into perspective.
    How wrong is it, though, that there are so many storylines like this!
    Hang in there, Jane. I hope you get the answers you need. Why don't they understand? We have to look it in the eye, deal with it, suffer through it, process it, before it can lose its power over us. We can't just "move on".

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    1. Phoenix -
      I agree - we can't forget about it. We just can't. We have to process it, deal with it, and this takes so much time....I honestly didn't think I would make it this long....but it didn't kill me, it didn't destroy me. It just felt like it sometimes. Baby steps....just baby steps sometimes I guess.

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  22. Ive concluded that to be a cheater you need a strong type of brain. One that you lock away things you've done that day. Like meet the ow for coffee and then sit in her car for a snog. Like closing a door you go home look your wife and family in the face. Then the next day on the way to work you open the door to that part of your brain and call her. For a cheater it's that's simple.
    So when the shit comes out they open that door and want to put it away in that room. Except the wife keeps wanting to talk and talk. It must be annoying

    Another topic. You will never know how much they think about them and things they did together. I'm told she was nothing, she could have been anyone. I know that's not true. I know he fell for her meeting In a bar. Within an hour. He lost weight. So how does he just forget her. He must think. He must have triggers like I do.

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    1. Jane, I think they do have a certain type of brain that is able to compartmentalize. To tuck that part of their lives away. I believe my husband when he says that he simply didn't think of her when he was with us. I've seen him do that with other things that are unpleasant. He's a master at avoiding anything that creates discomfort.
      Part of us healing from his has meant that he's had to integrate that part of his brain so that he doesn't do that anymore. It will always be a tendency of his, but he's realized how harmful it is. I know he still gets triggered but memories trigger shame for him, not pleasure.

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  23. Today was the first time at my husband's office since finding out about the affair with his "ho-worker". It's been almost 15 months. I thought I was strong enough to go there. Apparently, I'm not. She doesn't even work there anymore, but it still triggered me. Hard.
    Fighting hard to focus on today, but.. shit. I hate that place and everything that happened there.

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    1. Dandelion, I'm sorry you're having a tough time. Triggers SUCK! Just hearing a commercial (tv or radio) have haunted me lately as the OW worked at this particular store. I can't/won't go to the one near our home for fear of running into her. So I drive 15 miles to another store. These triggers hit each & every one of us. You're not alone. I hope you can take a moment to refocus, regroup, and make today an okay day. Sometimes we just need to get through the day.

      Hugs!

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    2. Dandilion
      I love just what you mean by the triggers and expecting to be past them. For months every time my we ate out, I found myself wondering did he take her there and I felt like this whole town was tainted by the memories she made with my h! But I finally began to take back everything I felt like she tainted and claimed it mine and made a new better memory for me and my h. I had to take my time and I didn't always make it the first attempt and I would ask my h to take me somewhere else. I'm blessed that my h had a volleyball ho. She wasn't allowed to be seen at his office and I have been introduced to the entire office staff. Even if anyone of them knew about her they have chosen not to address this out loud. I'm still not able to go to anyplace he played volleyball and he gave the pastime up his choice, and he doesn't press me to go anywhere I feel uncomfortable. Dandilion, I know it's hard and I know you'll get through this somehow but I'm telling you just take your time! Hugs!

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    3. Hey, those triggers will lose their power, Dandelion. They WILL! Hang in there, sweetheart. Hugs to you!!!

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    4. Thanks, FL! I came home, shed a few tears, and then decided to get out of the house for awhile. Took the kids shopping for school clothes. It helped me at least get it off my mind.
      Yes, triggers suck and this one caught me off guard.
      Hugs to you !

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    5. Theresa and Phoenix, thank you both! I was down for a little bit but going out and enjoying time with my kids helped me to refocus. And the weekend was much better. Hugs, ladies!

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  24. Triggers DO suck!!! I now dislike the pink ribbon breast cancer campaign because he bought her one of the pink ribbon necklaces. How sick is that? I saw a picture of it on his Amazon account. Triggers are everywhere, but at least they don't start me obsessing or make me cry anymore. I know that eventually they will lose their power. When they do, I will buy a freaking pink ribbon necklace!!

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  25. First timer here...I found out one month ago that my husband solicited a prostitute 6 weeks ago (my main issue) and has been viewing porn secretly and regularly throughout our 10-year marriage (secondary issue, but it has come to impact our intimacy and I have to imagine it enabled him to take the step of soliciting). I found out about the prostitute after I accidentally came across a series of text messages on his phone between him and the escort setting up a meeting during his work day. He swears he lost his nerve 2 blocks from the hotel and did not follow through...that he didn't end up doing it. He is making efforts to regain my trust and at present, things between us are moving forward as well as they could be. He is being attentive and is remorseful. I want to work through this with him because we do love each other and want our family to stay together, but I find myself consumed with details about "that day." Based on evidence I have found, it seems like he did end up meeting the escort. I looked through bank/credit card records, text messages and phone records... there is nothing glaring, but things just don't add up. What stands out most is there were no text messages or phone calls cancelling the rendezvous and his pattern of ATM withdraws during the past 6 weeks suggests he was out of cash after "that day." I asked him how there could be no messages cancelling or asking where he was and he was like I don't know I just walked away. My doubt about his honesty has lead me to create all sorts of narratives in my head about what might have happened. Maybe he told the truth and nothing happened, but I can't stop wondering and obsessing about the details. I'm at the point of just assuming he did it so I can move on. I feel like a crazy person. I really want to present him with the timeline and evidence I have based on my research and ask him to fill in all the blanks for me. I am one of those people who just needs to know. I don't feel like I can move forward until I've gotten more details. I know that ultimately, only he knows the truth and he may or may not be telling it. I guess my main questions are: 1. is it worth insisting on knowing details or does it serve no purpose since the trust is already broken and 2. is it possible to work toward regaining trust and even achieve it while at the same time not being sure if I know the complete truth about what happened? Can you have trust with doubt in your mind? If he did actually go through with it, I would still want to stay with him and save our marriage. Thank you so much for the support.

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    1. Anonymous 8/5,
      I think you need to know the truth. It is up to you how much detail you want to know and that is where it differs based upon the individual. I wanted to know EVERYTHING. Without all the details, I knew I would make up my own scenarios. But once I knew them, I couldn't "un-know" them. Knowing SO much has been difficult for me in many ways, but I feel like the alternative would have been worse for me personally.
      At a minimum, I believe he owes you the truth of what happened. "Trickle truth" is very common but no less hurtful to the betrayed. And if your instincts are telling you it doesn't add up, I would trust them.
      I am so sorry for what you are going through. You are not crazy, you're reacting normally to the shock of betrayal.
      Hugs!

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    2. Anonymous 8/5,
      I second the great advice these other ladies have given you.
      I would add that if you don't already have plans to see a marriage counselor, I strongly recommend it asap.
      Seeing a counselor was out of my comfort zone at first -- but then so was my H's adultery.
      Once I went, I found it gave me a lot more confidence -- esp in the early months when I didn't know what was real anymore. The counselor did. I felt like she was my personal bullshit meter. And she somehow managed to do this and be supportive to my H too -- kind but firm. I felt validated and sane for at least one hour a week. It sounds like you could use the same.
      Going to a counselor won't "fix" your husband or your marriage -- that's on him right now, and eventually him and you together -- but if nothing else his attitude about going with you will tell you volumes.
      Hang in there. Hugs.

      Delete
    3. Hi there, this is Anonymous 8/5. I wanted to thank those who provided such thoughtful replies to my post and to everyone, really, for sharing their advice and experiences. My crazy has gone away because my husband finally came clean this weekend. Years of booking whores, sorry, *escorts* for BJs and erotic massages on the way home from work or when he "worked late." No intercourse, apparently, because he was too scared to go there. This on top of the constant porn he told me about. Sounds to me like a sex/arousal addiction, but he refuses to be labled and also refuses to get help for himself. He wants to deal with this on his own. This is a whole other issue, but what I wanted to ask now comes from a place of sadness and depression, which replaced my crazy after the truth came out. How do I get past the images in my head and the repulsion for what my husband has done? I want a future with him and all that comes with it, but I can't stop thinking of my husband taking off all his clothes for a naked whore, putting his hands all over her, and letting her do God knows what to him. I can't stop thinking of the details I uncovered...him texting me while our 4-yr-old and I were out of state visiting family explaining he had to work late and he was sorry he wouldn't be able to skype with our son, while I now know from time stamps on phone calls and bank records that while he was communicating with me, he was withdrawing cash from the bank and calling the whore a few times to arrange things. I'm not obsessing about getting more details, but the truth is consuming me. I know we need to focus on the present and future, and my husband is absolutely remorseful and appalled by his own behavior and committed to doing better, but when I look at him all I see is him pawing a naked whore. I know this is not healthy and I can get caught in a downward spiral thinking like this. How do I refocus?

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    4. Anon 8/5, I'm glad that you were able to get the truth from your H. I hate using the word "glad" in relation to any of this, but at least with the truth you can work toward healing. I understand how you are feeling. I was plagued with images of my husband and the OW. It played over and over in my mind. There are some techniques that people here use to try to stop the thoughts when they enter your mind... picturing a big STOP sign whenever the thoughts enter your head, wearing a rubber band on your wrist and snapping it whenever your mind goes in that direction. I wore rubber bands for a month or so and it helped. If I didn't stop it right away, I tended to spiral and just get out of control.
      As far as your feelings about what your husband has done, I still struggle with that. I can tell you that now, 14 months later, I understand intellectually what happened with my husband. Emotionally, I cannot fully grasp the ability to behave as he did. My husband began to use porn when our sex life waned after having kids. The occasional use of porn intensified and turned into what we both see now as an addiction. Enter the OW, a co-worker who dressed inappropriately for the workplace (which of course caught his attention), sought out male attention and had a husband who according to her no longer told her she was beautiful. Flirtation led to dirty talk and then to sexting and ultimately to blow jobs and screwing in the back seat of his truck on lunch breaks. It disgusted me when I learned of it and still can if I think too much about it. What I'm slowly coming around to is that my husband was a wreck. I've seen plenty of addiction in family members but I never acknowledged addiction to porn or sex. Like many people I laughed it off as an excuse. But now, I see that in order to do the things my husband did, something was terribly wrong with him. The porn alone was not my husband's problem, in my opinion. It was years of unresolved stuff that allowed him to justify some of his behaviors. The porn use fueled the fire. He always had the opportunity to stop, but his issues helped him to justify his behavior on his own mind. After d-day, the porn use stopped, but he also dug pretty deep and started looking at unresolved stuff. He went to individual therapy, therapy with me. We've talked about uncomfortable stuff. He's learned to communicate instead of avoid. Address issues instead of medicate or ignore. It's been a tough road. I believe he is further along in healing than I am, but he still has to live with the consequences of his actions. When I reach a point where I question how the hell he did this, I have to remind myself that he was really messed up. And fortunately, that's not who he is today.
      I hope my experience helps you in some way. I know we each walk our own path to healing but sometimes it just helps to hear another's perspective.
      I'm sorry for the sadness and pain you feel right now. Hugs!

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    5. Anonymous8/5,
      I second what Dandelion and Cactus Flower have to say. And I urge you to make it a condition of reconciliation that your husband seek help. Nobody goes to such lengths to seek sexual gratification without having some serious issues that need resolving. He needs to understand what's at the root of his acting out and have strategies to cope when those urges strike. Patrick Carnes is sort of the father of sexual addiction research and there are books your husband can begin reading. You would benefit from seeking counselling too but again, it might help to start reading books for partners of sex addicts -- Stefanie Carnes (Patrick Carnes' daughter) has written a great one entitled Mending a Shattered Heart.
      As for the mind movies, those are really tough. They will fade with time but understanding what really goes on re. sex addiction can go a long way toward helping you realize there's nothing intimate about these encounters. They are transactional. The humans involved are objects with no purpose other than sexual gratification. It's dehumanizing and it's one thing my husband felt horribly ashamed about, realizing that these women weren't even people to him. Hang in there, Anon. It's a long road.

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  26. Does he have another phone? If it doesn't add up there is a reason. Trust your instincts. He just walked away? Call the escort service pretend that your his secretary. Tell them the credit card statement is incorrect. Go back further than 6 weeks. I had to go back a year. It cost me $10 per month to go back but it was worth it to me. Tell him you are going to do your own research so he should just tell you the truth now. Verify what he says. Everything is very raw and I'm so sorry for your pain. It is horrible.

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  27. You are absolutely not crazy. Your reaction is perfectly normal and understandable What is more, based on my readings, on my experience, and on the experiences I have seen shared here, the answer is yes, you need to know the truth. "Trickle truth", questions, and doubt will destroy your relationship. Also, you have been dealt and emotional blow, and you need to understand and know the truth, and process it, before you can heal and rebuild trust. He will probably not understand this, but hiding the truth will do a lot more damage to you and to the relationship. Anon, be wary, be vigilant. Tell him what you said about wanting to stay with him even if he has been unfaithful. And insist on transparency and truth. It will not be an easy road ahead. I pray that you will be able to see clearly, and that your marriage can be saved.
    Take care of yourself. Hugs!!!

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  28. 7 1/2 mos. out. This whole ordeal feels like I have a dirty little secret. It is the worst thing I've ever gone through in my life. There are days I feel somewhat happy; other days I wonder if I'll truly be happy again. I hate that I still worry (he says it'll never happen again, etc.). I hate that I have expectations (real & imagined) of how things should be or is it how I want them to be. I guess today is just one of those "damn this shit sucks days".

    Anon - the "crazy" goes away in time although sometimes it resurfaces for me (hence those damn triggers and a day like today).

    Question for you all - how do you get through all the "firsts" that come up? First anniversary (wedding & DDay)? First vacation? We have season theater tickets to Broadway type shows and these date nights were special to me. I know that h was texting with the OW when we were on one of these date nights. These shows will come up before too long and I need to figure out how to make it through. I understand that that was then and this is now, but still. All these firsts are so hard!!

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    1. Feeling lost
      Our first six months are mostly a blur to me. It took that long for my h to grow his balls back and file harrassment charges. His cow literally dropped her truth bomb 10 days past our 36 wedding anniversary. We didn't have a traditional vacation that year, but the next summer we flew with our Adult daughter to visit our adult son in Minnasota for a week of family bonding and we had a wonderful time although I triggered badly one day and my h had to hold me all night while I cried and trembled. Our Thanksgiving that first year had our children at our lake home and it was wonderful . I have not experienced any triggers in our home on the lake. Probably because she never came near it. Christmas hasn't been anything traditional in many years due to our son living so far away. By the next anniversary we went out for a nice steak dinner and drinks. This October will be out second anniversary with no real contact from her since she attempted to reconnect in March but my h had her brought before the judge and threatened with jail so it's been very peaceful summer. We just returned from Key West Florida where our daughter and son in law were married in a destination cruise where his family and us had a very nice vacation along with her best friend from elementary school as maid of honor. It was wonderful time spent with our grandsons from a previous relationship. I have had no real triggers in months. I was flipping through photos on my h phone and I ran into the ones he had taken to print out her text for the judge. I almost triggered but I calmly asked a few questions and my h was patient and answered me honestly even though it was somewhat painful to hear. I have watched some volley ball but find myself with small trigger feelings so I walk outside to shake it off. Our plans for this years anniversary will include a beach trip for golf at one of the courses he goes to in the spring. Life for us has returned to normal even though some days I don't know what that word means. You are right about the firsts hurting but with time it does get easier. Hugs!

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    2. Feeling Lost -
      My Dday was July 11, 2015...My H says "I will never cheat again" I will never do this to you again". So, we had a family vacation with our two adult children planned in 3.5 weeks after I found out - already paid for...and we went. It was a train wreck for me. My birthday was 2 weeks after that, then Thanksgiving, Christmas.....I hated them all. I dreaded having to be fake happy. We had sold our house we lived in for 25 years in May, moved into an apartment until the house we were building was ready. I was not working a full time job at the time...my kids are on their own. It was hard. I know my H communicated with his OW on his work phone which was always glued to his side - he was on that phone texting, or emailing all the time "in the name of business". Look - your H probably did text her, or whatever - that's a given. I promise you over time it won't have the same affect on you. A lot of what you are feeling now, will become more distant, and you will actually lose some of those memories of how bad it felt or exactly what you heard. It doesn't mean your feelings or gut emotions aren't valid - they are. But it just won't take up all your "emotion" space.
      I can't tell you how to get past all the "firsts" - but looking back - I made it. I am hopeful for a better future with my H.
      My birthday is coming around again....I am in a holding pattern right now. I am trying to focus on me - not what my H can do for me.
      Doesn't it seem like a dream sometimes, like maybe all of this really didn't happen and you'll wake up and it will be just like "old times", except old times probably weren't really that good.
      This is your new Reality - you'll make it, I promise. You're so much stronger than you think.

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    3. Anon 1998, thanks for your words of wisdom. I guess I haven't quite accepted my new Reality. I'm working on it -- one day at a time, sometimes one hour at a time. As far as being stronger, I think I am. I've learned to trust myself, believe in myself (and my gut), and set boundaries not only for my h but with others as well. I've always been the "nice" person and I've learned I can be nice but not be taken advantage of. It's been such an emotional and trying 7 mos, but also a time where I've learned a lot about myself and others around me.

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  29. I'm not sure why but my comments are not posting? Any thoughts as to why not?

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    1. Debby
      Sometimes my post disappear when I hit publish. Not sure why it happens but it has several times in the past. Usually I try again later. Keep trying!

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  30. The firsts are very hard. I didn't want to celebrate my antiversary for the first two years. Now we have a floating antiversary. He celebrates on a day,I feel like it. You won't be able to deny yourself all the times he was thinking about her. Start with what I call low cost firsts. I would tell my husband I'm working on going to the theater although I know you were texting the OW. Then when you get there let yourself feel all the anger until it leaves. It maybe a restaurant. I started at at the coffee shop and worked my way up the of really hard occasions or places. It is just a theater. Eventually It is just a coffee shop, it is just places, calendar dates or occasions. You call the shots. I never did anything until I was ready. You get to make the choice and decide. Take into consider is he doing it as part of your recovery to help you? We started new memories. It will never be the same, painful but true.

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    1. LLP -
      I agree with you wholeheartedly. It will never be the same - and I guess, thank god for that. But I like the drivers seat - it feels good.

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    2. Anonymous 1998 and LLP, My h is really trying to do what he can to help me heal. We've had really good conversations lately which I appreciate. I used to get the "I don't remember or I don't know or I don't want to talk about it" answer. I definitely want to be the one calling the shots. Good advice. I'm hoping to make more memories-better memories. Thanks for the reminder that I'll get through this - stronger and better.

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  31. I am sort of holding my breath waiting for the one year anniversary of Dday to come around. Then I can stop saying to myself "a year ago, things were so different. A year ago, I thought I was happily married. A year ago, I had no idea what was coming....
    On September 1st, my year of firsts will be over, and it will be one more step on the road to recovery. It feels like my life is split into two parts: before Dday and after Dday. I am ready to pass this milestone and put even more distance between me and the worst experience of my life.
    You know what's ironic? He probably doesn't even know the date. He will probably grieve dates like our anniversary, our divorce, and Valenrine's Day (which was the day he proposed and - irony again - the last time we ever had sex). But I doubt September 1st is on his radar. For so many of us, Dday is engraved on our hearts - but how many of our men know the date?

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    1. My OH will never forget the date as it was 9/11 and as I was about to board a plane to Disneyworld with my sister, her granddaughter, and our daughter when I received a text he meant for the OW which blew my world apart. Somehow I managed to continue with the vacation for their sake without them knowing. Given it was years later but the media will never allow me or him to ignore that date for a number of reasons.

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    2. I felt like dday 1 anniversary was a good time for reflection. I felt a lot of comfort in how far we had come. Since that day I have struggle more. Various issues have caused that including settling in to a more day to day feeling. I struggle more with the long term issues of memories being ruined, birthdays, vacations, birth of a child, and day to day life. I look back and struggle still to think how can this man who was my husband be a different person now. Is that really possible or will he always be the guy who did what he did for 10 years. As time passes I wonder are we really good for each other and meant to be together. I can see where I am good for him. But is he good for me?

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    3. Hopeful 30,
      You put into words exactly the thoughts that I am having right now. I am one year and four months past d-day, and although my struggles continue, I feel more settled into day to day life. Still many triggers, but the affairs seems farther away, as time goes on. I think deep down I am afraid to be vulnerable (which limits my emotional connection) until my husband proves to have changed for the long term. We definitely have come a long way, but I wonder if I will ever be able to forgive him, or love him the way that I used to....
      --Morgan

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  32. Hi Phoenix, it sounds like your well on your way to recovery. There will come a time when that 1st d day will be a distant memory, I know I struggle to remember dates from the affair. Make September 1st a new memory, do something you wouldn't normally do, since my separation I have started trying new things outside my comfort zone, (nothing crazy mind) just trying to find me again, I feel I have lost myself in and amongst his mess. I'm slowly separating myself from his affair, his shit not mine and that helps me concentrate on looking after me..

    Phoenix you have s few weeks till that date so get thinking on how you will spend it and let us know... New memories my dear... Big hugs xxxx

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    1. I have a question.

      Sometimes when I look at my H I feel revulsion. Physically ill.

      Does this happen to any of you???

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    2. Suzanne,
      I did feel that way for a while, but with time it gets better. How far out are you from d-day? I'm one year and four months, and I would say after I started to see the work that he has done through therapy, combined with his constant reassurance of affection, I was able to replace those thoughts with more loving, positive ones. It's so hard, though, trying to reconcile the thought of being with this person now with the monster who had the capability of betraying you like this. Luckily, time, combined with therapy, helps...
      --Morgan

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    3. I have felt this way at times. Sometimes I freak out when my husband hugs me or he says certain things. It can be so hard. He is trying hard but sometimes it is like I get chills. And sometimes just thinking about him and who he is/was makes me physically ill. I constantly think "Can he really change?" I mean someone who deceives and detaches from his family for only selfish reasons is he safe to be with? And this was for 10 years. He will defend himself and say it was sporadic and he compartmentalized yet to me the sporadic nature does not matter. Who knows when he did what and there is no way to go back and know all the details over 10 years and multiple affairs, internet relationships, porn etc. I find it is like triggers and it comes and goes. I wish I had an answer. For me it comes up more when I am asked to reminisce about our engagement and marriage. Makes me still almost vomit in my mouth. Of course our marriage is not what it was I get that. But when he told me we got married too young and he did not get to play the field it kills anything to do with our engagement. I was not the one chasing or pushing him for engagement. I never pushed to have kids. That is what still sits poorly with me.

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    4. Thank you for your replies. We are doing better than we ever have in 35 years of being together. He is a totally changed man. We went to tx, many changes. It's been 2 years 2 months and 20 days. I've read 92 books (seriously), been in tx, and the level of self-care that I have is healthy and amazing. However, looking at him sometimes is a trigger for me. I no longer cry or swear or scream, but my gut wrenches. I know you all know the feeling. I'm working on it. And I also am disgusted I am in this position. BAH!

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  33. Feeling Lost

    How have you got from your H not talking pretending he can't remember to good conversations that help you?.
    It's my wall, stopping me from healing. I so long for him to sit and talk. Whenever I mention it, it ends in a row as he says I'm grilling him. I should forget it and move forward otherwise I should throw him out.

    Xx

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    Replies
    1. Jane,

      For me, timing is crucial. I try and pick a time when we have no other distractions and it's just us (our kids are grown and gone). Sometimes it's in the car when we have quite a distance to go, other times (to be honest) it's after a particularly nice cuddling time. I'll bring up something that may be on my mind and we'll talk about it. I'd start with things that don't pertain to the ow and sometimes it would come up.

      I'm seeing a counselor who is helping with the emotional intimacy that we lost. It is so very hard to bring up things sometimes and I'm doing better with not needing as much information anymore. I'm reading a book called Intimacy After Infidelity and it has helped as well.

      Jane, I know this just sucks. I still worry that I'm trusting too much too soon. I figure that if it happens again, I'm done. No third chance (of course we should never say never because I initially thought I'd leave in a heartbeat if this ever happened, and it did, and I gave him another chance). My h fully knows that I've given him the gift of a second chance. At this point I don't think I could give another one. The first hurt and trickle truths were enough for me.

      Sending you hugs and vibes for some good chats with your h.

      Delete
  34. Hi all,

    It's been more than four terrible months of pretending I am okay. I pretended I was strong, and that I can fight for my family. But pretensions bring in so much pain. It feels like suicide.

    When I found out about his cheating, I decided to let him go but he did not want to. He told me it was so selfish of me to entertain the pain so much and not think and consider our children. I didn't know how he managed to make me feel guilty of the possibility of having a broken home for our children.

    And so here I am, being stuck into an unhappy marriage, trying to cover-up things for the sake of the kids. I have to endure nightmares about them having sex in front of me so often, wherein I usually wake up crying. During these nights, I would prefer to stay up until dawn and watch TV - try to get rid of those thoughts.

    I don't know until when I can endure this. I'm getting tired. He told me we have to move on, forget and leave everything in the past. I just can't. I no longer check his phone because I no longer care. Or maybe there's always this fear that I would find out something. ( I found out his cheating thru his phone) I no longer tell him I love him. But he endures it all. He chooses to keep this marriage intact, he still do sweet things sometimes. We still have sex. Yes, I already call it sex. Not love-making. I am so bitter and I don't like it. I am not the usual me.

    I don't know what to do. I don't know how to move on, forgive, and forget...

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    Replies
    1. En, I'm do sorry that you are here and going through this hell. You've found a great place.
      So first, stop pretending you are ok. Your pain is real and will not just go away even if your h wants to pretend like it is not there.
      Dong accept blame for hurting your children. From where I am sitting you have done nothing wrong. It's your husband's shitty choices that have put them at risk. Don't accrpt that blame. It is pure manipulation.
      So next thing: if you are not already please please please find a therapist, preferably one who knows how to handle trauma recovery (and who can do EMDR, sounds like you might have PTSD which can happen with a complete loss of safety like you've experienced).
      Next, get in to marriage counseling with your h. He needs to be in individual therapy too. Sweeping this under the rug, pretending it didn't happen will not allow you to heal and if he doesn't take a hard look at why he did what he did, well how can you grow together and have a better marriage? And you deserve something better.
      You say he chooses to keep this marriage in tact. What do YOU choose? Whst is right for you right now? What do you need? As Elke says "your heartbreak, your rules". You get to decide what needs to happen next. It is so early and your pain is so raw. Get yourself some help, read the posts on this site. They are incredible and may help. Then take a deep breath and try to get through today. Think about what you need and take a small step toward that. I'm holding you in my heart. SS

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    2. En,

      Four months is so soon still. As you might have read here before time really does help. For me at that point I would fall asleep with my ear buds in. If the music stopped or they fell out I would put them back in. For me it was the only way to get any sleep if I could at all. Sometimes I would go and try to sleep on the bathroom rug. And my husband would always find me and bring me back to bed. It was really hard. It took a lot of time and a lot of conversations. Now at 17 months since dday 1 things have really improved. But it took a lot of time and effort. And it is still not easy. What I have found is the recovery from betrayal moves through phases at least for me. And sometimes things feel great and other times not so much. It took a long time for me to be okay with me and whatever happens and some days it is still hard to face.

      For me what I decided is that it would remain between us and I have only talked with a therapist. I wanted to make sure our kids would not find out if at all possible. I struggle more with friends and other family. I feel almost fake that I act like we are all happy. But for me I am doing it for my kids. That is more important that airing it for everyone. It would create a different dynamic with family and friends if they knew. I also decided I would do whatever I could to make this work. I am that kind of person. Saying that it has been the hardest thing I have done but no matter what happens I know that I will have given it my all.

      I am not sure if you are seeing anyone but this website and my therapist have helped me a lot. I go to the therapist alone which is a longer story. He has helped me so much and really helped me work through things to allow me to feel better about the betrayal, myself and also what was the hardest was to set firm boundaries.

      Delete
    3. En -
      I am so sorry for your pain - I know it is agonizing. What your H did is one of the most hurtful, selfish, indulgent - crappy things anyone could do. So using your children against you - to make you feel like shit, so you don't leave him. He is taking advantage of YOU to save HIMSELF. My H did it when I found out - he still does it to some extent. I don't know your circumstances etc, but please use this time to figure out what YOU want to do. If you can, please get some individual counseling. It will save your life - I sincerely mean that.
      I can't tell you how many times I demanded my H give me the "change of beneficiary" forms so I could take his name off of my life insurance policy and put my two grown children's names in there instead.
      I was depressed, unemployed, 51, ashamed and felt very alone. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat. I hated night time - that was the absolute worst of all. I didn't sleep a complete night without waking up at 2, 3 or 4....And tonight is no different - I'm still up - it's past 1 am - but I hate going to sleep sometimes....still.
      I never journaled before - but it was a life saver for me. Do it! Write it all down - how you feel, how sad, how ANGRY you are....your thoughts, feelings - doesn't matter. It really helps - I still journal.
      About SEX - I know - it's not "making love" - because it's hard to think you actually have loving feelings for someone who just ripped your entire world apart. We had that hysterical bonding sex - and I really think that I mistook that for him "loving me", if that makes sense. We had "sex" more than we had in 25 years. My H was desperate. I guess I was desperate, too. Now we are 13 months out from dday. He doesn't share his feelings, he quit doing that 18 years ago when he decided he needed someone else to escape "our life" - the life of young marriage with two kids, a job and growing up. He is remorseful in some ways, but not enough for me. H is sorry - says he loves me, cares for me - but his actions are slow if nil to back up his words.
      We get along - really - but are we better friends than an intimate couple - that is what I am trying to take my time to figure out.
      Please take some time for yourself - you can't forget - you won't. Don't even try to forgive yet - that takes time... you'll know when.
      You will survive - I never thought I would make it this far - but I did.
      Take care of yourself - hang in there and be kind to yourself :)

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    4. Of course you can't move on and forget, it doesn't sound like you've been allowed to deal with it. It seems like he just wants to have his fun and then go on with life, while you swallow all your pain and rage. You are traumatized. And he has the nerve to call YOU selfish? How dare he??
      The changes in you, your bitterness, your cynicism, are not your fault. You have been deeply wounded by the one person you should have been able to trust. I'm sure he would like to "leave everything in the past", but that's easy for him to say. He's not the one whose heart has been ripped out.
      You deserve time to heal. You deserve to heal on your terms, to be able to ask questions and to get whatever answers, apologies, and actions you need from him to start your recovery and begin to rebuild your trust. Counseling would probably help a lot, for both of you. If he's not willing to give you these things, then it's going to be hard as hell for you to ever move on.
      Your reactions are normal. You are dealing with extreme emotional pain and trauma. This is not your fault. Find someone to talk to - someone who will have some idea of what you are going through. You can't bury this, sweetheart - it will eat you alive. I pray that you will find the help you need, and that your H will - forgive me - pull his head out of his rear end. Hugs!!!!

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    5. Thank you everyone... Sincerely...

      Reading all of your advises somewhat gives me strength to go on. Makes me cry though, but somehow you guys had these powers to empower my self being. It makes me think I'm not alone. It's 30 mins past midnight but I'm still awake, and for me, it's better this way. Hugs to all.. Again, thanks...

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    6. En -
      I know how you feel when you read all these supportive words from all these women. It makes you so sad to see that what you are going through is REAL - it happened; your H is not helping you recover - he probably can't at this this point. When Elle and the others here told me to take care of ME, I had no clue how...I mean, I was so damned depressed and just defeated. You know what? You just kind of keep going, one day at a time. It really seems like it was yesterday...I mean that.
      I think its really important that you see a therapist or counselor. If your H won't go to marriage counseling with you - then you HELP yourself. You are not crazy, you're not losing your mind, you are not alone. But just talking to someone - it is a life saver.
      I'm sorry your nights are hard - mine were and sometimes they still are - my H just doesn't get it..that's when my mind goes into overdrive. I used to lay in bed and just wait for daylight....that's what Dday was for me - I never went to sleep and the darkness of night, and the quiet just made everything so much worse.
      You can do this - you can. You take your time, YOU decide what will be next - You will learn to set boundaries for YOU. Please keep coming back here - if only to read. We're here for you - keep going.

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    7. En,
      I'm so sorry I missed your post. I've been away a lot and, unfortunately, I miss some posts.
      You do NOT owe your husband anything. HE is the one who made the choice to risk your marriage. You are responding to HIS choice. So you do whatever you need to do in order to ensure that you remain wholehearted and safe, emotionally and physically. Your children deserve a mother who is modelling self-respect. There are consequences to lying and betraying trust -- and your husband seems masterful at dodging them.
      Whatever you choose, it is your choice. It won't feel good. But that's okay. You will survive. Your children will survive. At the very least, perhaps you need separation to clear your own head. I suspect your husband doesn't give you much space to get clear on your own feelings.
      If you do decide to try and rebuild your marriage, it gets to be on YOUR terms. He lost any leverage when he went outside your marriage. "My heartbreak, my rules", as Steam, on this site, puts it. You get to decide what reconciliation looks like. And, trust me, successful reconciliation NEVER looks like "leaving it in the past". It needs to be pulled into the light, examined, discussed, examined some more, in order to understand why he betrayed you and how to ensure it never happens again. This is on him, not you. You did NOTHING to make him cheat. That's a choice he made.
      Now, the choice is yours around what you're going to do with this information. Don't let anybody blame you for doing what you need to do to remain you. You do not need to sacrifice yourself in the interest of keeping the family together. He clearly didn't make any sacrifices for the family's well-being.

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    8. Thanks, Elle.. and all the ladies here..

      I do appreciate all your comforting words. It is what keeps my sanity - aside from my kids, I suppose..

      But I'm sorry I'm SOOO broken. I didn't know what RULES will I make to pave the way towards reconciliation. I didn't know how to heal myself. He offered me to have access of all his gadgets, email passwords, social media passwords. But as I've said, I no longer care. At the back of my mind, there's someone whispering "Of course, you'll have access, but you know, he already informed the bitch to back-off a bit, to lie low so they will not get caught, for you not to have evidence for a legal suit against them." I don't know if it was my Guardian Angel or it was Satan. LOL!

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    9. En,
      A counsellor/therapist could really help you with this, to get you on solid ground so that you can proceed with what YOU want. I'm guessing that he's not the first person to break your heart. What sort of family did you grow up in? To heal yourself, you need to, on some level, really know yourself -- to really understand your own value.
      The fear, in the form of those imagined whispers that you're being played for a fool, make total sense under the circumstances. Of course, you have doubts. He lied to you. He deceived you.
      But that's where the "rules" come in. He needs to understand that, if you choose so, he gets a second chance to prove he deserves you. In the meantime, however, I really encourage you to find a therapist to help you heal -- to help you sift through what voices in your head are fear and which are truth-tellers.

      Delete
  35. Where do I start. I am my husbands second wife, he is my first husband. We married when I was in my forties and have been married almost 5 years. Two years ago i discovered he was having an affair with a coworker half his age. I found out after we had taken her and her husband under our wing and done many social events with them. I am sickened knowing that i hugged her, had photos with her, and gave her gifts. All the time she was going to seedy hotels with my husband. My husband seems to have remorse for the affair. The past couple of years my husband has admitted to what he believes is a sexual addiction. I have learned that he had multiple affairs in his first marriage, and also had relationships that he paid for. Yes, prostitutes. It makes me sick to think of it. He went to therapy for a while, and said that the therapist made him realize he wanted this marriage to work. So, everyday i work on forgiveness. The past year he has started to accuse me of having an affair. Something i have not done. I tell him he has to stop turning his guilt on me for what he did. He said he doesnt understand why i dont want revenge. It seems like everyday he finds something to question me about and it is starting to make me very angry. He is difficult to be around sometimes. He argues easily and i never know what will make him upset. He blames it on job stress. I think he may be unstable in some way. And something that i am not really comfortable discussing...our sex life. He always has to have it dirty. I cant remember in the last two years a time we were intimate that he doesnt cuss and talk dirty during intercourse. I dont enjoy it anymore, but am afraid he will cheat again if i dont have sex with him. And a normal sex life to him is intercourse everyday, sometimes several times a day, and he acts like a child if i say no. Sorry for unloading...

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    1. In my first marriage I was accused of cheating all the time. I had three small children with me 24/7 when and how I was supposed to arrange for an affair I'll never understand. It's frustrating and eventually was one of the factors in the divorce. Ironically he was a horrible H, but never cheated. I really know how to pick them!

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    2. Anonymous,

      I am so sorry you are going through this. It sounds frustrating and I cannot imagine knowing the other woman. Are you still seeing a therapist? Mine really helped me to be more assertive and establish firm boundaries. For me that is when things really improved for us. It took a long time or at least I felt like it did. We were working through it really for 8-9 months. But once I set firm boundaries then things began to fall in place. I even saw my husband really start to process what he had done. It is so hard and I hate bringing things up. We have had some really hard discussions but if you are not comfortable then I hope you can find a way to talk it over with him in time. I agree a sex life is important but there has to be something underlying there. And many times people are not compatible but if you care and love each other hopefully a middle ground can be found. To me the accusing you of an affair and not understanding you wanting revenge seems like a red flag. I am not saying he is doing anything but not all of us are wired that way. Have you thought about finding a new therapist to see if a fresh look at things might help?

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    3. Anonymous,
      Yes, I think your husband still has a whole lot of work left to do. But it's HIS work, not yours. You can't have an intimate relationship with someone who doesn't know how to be intimate. Sex can run the gamut, as you know, but you need to feel emotionally safe enough to say "no" or to let him know that you find "dirty" sex unappealing. And, believe me when I tell you that having sex with him to keep him faithful is not respecting yourself nor is it likely to make any difference. If he's going to cheat, he's going to cheat.
      If he refuses to seek further help for his sex addiction, I hope you'll nonetheless find a therapist to help you. Being a partner of a sex addict does a real number on our psyches. And you need to get clear on what you will or won't tolerate in your marriage. It sounds as if you're doing a lot of bending in order to please him. And that's not a marriage. Not a healthy one.

      Delete
  36. Just spent time scouting LinkedIn looking to see if the OW was still in her current job at the company where they both work. Of course she is. One of her counter moves back in March was to tell my h that she was so wounded by everything that she was going to quit her job and maybe even leave the company. Never happened but sucked him back in anyway. Meanwhile my h has a new job and is giving his notice later this month. I wonder if the dumsel knows and what she thinks about that move on his part. Why oh why do I do this to myself? Her profile pic is not a full face. Just a pretentiously self conscious shot of her face from the side, just her eye and nose. I can see she's very young. I know she just turned 29. I just stare at her. I don't click the profile so she won't know I'm looking. And I just stew. Just despise. Just will her out of my life. Ironically as I am wasting precious minutes of mine on her. Why do I hurt myself like this?

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    1. As hard as I've tried I have broken down a few times and looked at social media about the OW. It's a hard temptation. I know I'm a better person, and not to sound vain, but I'm better looking than her which blows my mind. She's 10 years younger that's about all she has on me. Still if we were standing next to each other I doubt people would believe I'm 10 yrs older. Why do I even care? It's dumb but I feel like a loser in this and I want to win in some twisted way. I hope we both can move past the looking they don't deserve any of our attention.

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    2. Still Standing,

      I found myself doing this all the time. Just scouting out what the other women were up to. It is so hard not to be drawn into this. I even think before social media and smartphones maybe this would all be easier. I even thought about cancelling my FB account but then I felt resentful that he would have some control over me staying connected with friends and family that do not live nearby.

      For me it was I think something Steam wrote. It was about in many years from now if you look back at a photo of yourself will it be black and white and all old with me looking flat and not happy. Or will it be a color photo with me enjoying my life. How do I want to look at my life. I am sure I am not explaining it as well as she did. But I sat there and thought these women already stole too much time and happiness from my life. I am not going to waste one more second on them. I was lucky on dday he had already broken up with one over a year ahead and the other one was just random emails or texts and he told her to stop once and she did. In the end I just got tired of it and wanted to focus on me and our marriage. So I guess like other aspects of this it was a time issue. Over time it helped.

      I have found this same peace with emails and other things. I was so obsessed with checking phone records and emails and internet history. But in the end I cannot live my life this way. It was necessary at first to feel some safety. But I cannot continue in a marriage if I have to be a detective long term. I do still have access at any time to any account and passwords etc. The other thing that hit me hard was if he wants to get around this he can buy a throw away phone, create secret email accounts, communicate through work phone and email. There really is no way I can know everything all the time. I decided instead to focus on us and making sure he understood that this is his second chance and he needs to make the right decisions.

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    3. Warrior sisters,
      We do it because as long as we're focussed on her, we don't need to focus on ourselves and our pain. It seems counter-intuitive but it's easier to stew and feel angry than it is to feel empty and hurt. But ultimately you're just postponing the reckoning you need to do with yourself and your pain. The way to stop agonizing over the OW is to...stop. There are cognitive behavioural techniques (the stop sign, the elastic band around your wrist, etc.), which can work. But it all comes down to making the decision to no longer give this person any more real estate in your brain. It isn't about them. It was never about them. They don't have anything that you don't (except maybe a large dose of crazy). They're available and willing. That's what they bring to the table.

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    4. Dearest Still, no matter her age, her size, her whatever....the COW's available and easy and a whore. I stopped looking at the internet in February because I also was infuriated. I want nothing to do with that bitch, and want to focus on ME. So I get up and do something rather than cause pain for myself by surfing the internet. You will feel SO empowered to NOT GIVE A SHIT about the ho-worker. Best of luck on your future victory!!!

      Suzanne : )

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  37. SS i dream of driving up to her house or of meeting her in a restaurant and walking up to her and slapping her face!! I used to look at her on facebook, i stopped doing it, it just uncovers old wounds again and again . i stopped looking at her i think thats the best thing to do if possible. I think we all do it at some point.
    If you are the same as me i hold her responsible (and the H) for all the hurt that has been caused to me all the unhappy days??? i feel like he chose her over me and she was more important because he was prepared to lie and sneak around to see and speak to her. SS it takes so long if ever to get over this. We all think WHY did it happen to me .. Its just like a bad dream that never seems to go away xxx

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    1. Jilly55, It wasn't that SHE was more important to you but that HE believed his wants/needs were more important than you. In fact, most of these guys don't even think about their wives. They live in this fantasy where they get what they need (a distraction from their lives, the ego boost) and, as far as they're convinced, nobody gets hurt. Most of them are shocked when they realize the extent of the damage they've caused. And then they realize...for what? Nobody they even really care about.
      Why did it happen? Not because of anything you did. Because a husband decided to look outside of himself (and his marriage) for something that needs to be tended to inside of himself. Because it's easier to escape than do the hard work of self-growth. That's why.

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  38. I'm feeling just terrible these days. My son with Aspergers thinks we don't care about him, has behavioural issues and had yet another rage where he tries to break windows and punches his Dad. To him everything is everyone else's fault. And he knows we've had marriage problems and that I'm depressed over it and my lack of progress in my writing career (I've not been able to work properly since the affair). He has been to stay with friends for the last two nights. He is my eldest and it breaks my heart that he thinks that 'neither of us care about each other and once I leave (he's nearly 16) it's best if we have nothing to do with each other. " Now my husband's ex boss (a real piece of work) is suing my husband and his new company, claiming they stole software (they didn't)and poached staff and although the solicitors don't think the ex boss has a case it's all very stressful for us as a family and for my husband trying to make sure the worried staff are okay. I've tried to be as supportive as possible - he had to leave our family holiday at my parents to deal with something to do with the case. It brought back all the sacrifices and understanding I've had for the work interuptions - and how that understanding was thrown back in my face when he had the affair. But I'm trying to move past that. Then the continued issues with son. He is supposed to be trying to go back to school end of august after 1.5 years out. I'm anxious about that. I just seem to be stuck in depression and anxiety with all these real things that are happening and the fallout of the affair. What I've described sounds like something off one of those shows but I've three other kids and we are just a normal family outside of that. I just want to have a happy family but i guess there are always tragedies and losses. My poor sister just had an early miscarriage after fertility treatment. I feel for her. I just don't seem to be able to pick myself up out of this. I have books to send to agents and a new project to push forward but i am like a rabbit in the headlights, confused, lethargic and only able to work for about 30 mins at a time. My husband is back at work (I'm a SAHM) and, he is struggling with my son's attack and the work problem and he just wants to be quiet and relax. I feel very lonely. I know I should contact friends but I've feel so stuck. I feel guilty and pathetic for being this way. I've been depressed over the years and I'm sick of being this person.

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    1. FOH,
      You are in one helluva valley right now. But please know, that's all it is. Do you have support with other parents of kids with Aspergers? Sometimes it can help a lot to have someone offer up an "I get it. I struggle too." Your son is likely acting out the stress in the family. I know that, as a kid, I often acted out the pain in my family. I just didn't seem to have the same filter that others did. And then I became the problem. But really I just felt so scared and anxious and desperately needed reassurance. You can't promise him an indefinitely intact family but you can promise him that your'e doing everything you can to rebuild a solid marriage and that's the best any of us can ever do. Just as you expect the "best" from him, which is going to waver from day to day, depending on his circumstances.
      FOH, I ache for you. I'm a writer too and not writing feels like a slow death to me. I was one chapter away from finishing a book when D-Day hit. To this day, I don't know how I finished it. It's the shittiest chapter of the book, not surprisingly. And then I took a few months off to recharge. D-Day 2 hit three weeks before release date. My mother died the night before release date. And so I somehow, over the next weeks and months, did TV/radio interviews, speaking gigs, etc. I swear I was channeling my mother who used to advise me to "just show up." I never understood what she meant. And she would try to explain to me. But I didn't get what she meant. I was always so busy trying to dazzle people by keeping a zillion balls in the air. It was only when all I could do was "show up" that I finally got what she meant. Just show up. To the breakfast table. To the school parking lot to get kids. To the page. Just show up. That's enough. Find ways to refuel. Tell your husband you need to find time to do your writing. And then negotiate something that will work. Does he take the kids to dinner one night a week to give you two or three hours? Can you take a laptop to a coffee shop or the library? Whatever you need, ask for it. And then, just show up.
      What's more, do those things you know you should do. Make plans with friends who fill you up. Find a therapist who can give you a place, once a week, to unload and strategize.
      And, FOH, those feelings -- the guilt and the shame and self-recrimination -- those are saboteurs that get in the way of you living your life. You are a woman who is surviving an incredibly difficult situation. You're going through hell. So, as Churchill says, keep going. Refuel. Remind yourself as often as you can, that you are a good mom, a loyal wife, a talented writer. You are someone who has been brought to her knees. But you're still here. You're a fucking warrior, FOH. You are a champion. But fighting so hard is exhausting. So just show up for a while. It's incredible when you realize that's all you ever had to do.

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  39. I know exactly how you feel ! My husband also had affairs with coworkers. One of them in particular is very disturbing to me. I have a hard time getting over the fact that he could even be "friends" with a person such as her. He also changed jobs because of his lack of morals,(and due to me flipping out, he would have gotten fired, if he hadn't left) I have let her know many different ways, how I feel.. It is funny now to see that I have gotten through to her, after comments on her streetwalker makeup and ridiculous amount of selfies, that she now posts pictures that actually include her, "mean,awful", husband,and appears to have an almost normal amount of makeup on.�� I know that it has not been healthy to check in on her( through social media) but it was also ,"not healthy" to fuck numerous women without a condom and put my physical health at risk!!

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  40. So I'm 14 months from discovering, and feeling pretty good for the last month, although like many of you, I've been to depression and anxiety -- and I dabbled with alcoholism for far too long. And I know I can be there again any moment, so I'm enjoying this happier stretch. He dumped her (needy, lonely, self-absorbed) immediately, gave me access to all of his devices and has - for the last 12 months at least - been saying all the right things (there were some doozies in the beginning!). Only our therapist and my best friend know what happened. We have kept it from our friends, parents and our grown-up daughters because I know the knowledge would impact their relationships with him. I know my younger daughter would never speak to him again.

    If her employer knew, she would lose her high-profile position, which requires good moral judgement and integrity, which she clearly has neither.

    But I'm wondering....

    I listened to Carrie Underwood's Dirty Laundry song on my run this morning, and it got me thinking. In the song, the betrayed partner "airs his dirty laundry" for the neighbours and all to see, and I wonder if we hadn't kept it all so secret, if I would have recovered faster? I know it's just a song -- but it got me thinking. I have wandered through my life for the last year, barely functioning, keeping this secret. Was the keeping of the secret part of the bourdon? I wonder what you think?

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    1. Anon August 20
      I'm one of those to keep it secret from family and friends because I didn't want their judgemental thoughts to sway my thinking. Did it take longer for my healing to begin ? I'm not sure but what I do know was that it caused my h to have no choice but witness the raw pain and hurt his choices caused. Each of us have to travel this path in our own way. It's not a right way or a wrong way, it's what feels right for you. Yes keeping his dirty little secret is a bourdon but it's his not mine to carry. I have mine back to him when I felt like I had finally spoke my piece of how hurt I was. He picked it up and has carried it every since and every day. By his actions. It's up to each of us to pick up ourselves and decide if this new life and path we are on is the path of happy that we all deserve! Hugs!

      Delete
    2. Anon,
      It's an interesting question. I wonder the same thing. I imagine it's liberating in some ways to have no secrets. But I also know that there would have been a price paid that, at the time anyway, I wasn't willing to pay, most notably to have my children know what their father had been doing. I wonder now what I'll ever say if any of them ask me. As they get older and get into their own relationships, I can imagine the question. And I'm committed to being honest.
      So...as Theresa has said, we each need to walk our own path. I do wish our culture was less judgemental of infidelity. It makes it hard to be open when so many people have such misguided ideas about it. We really don't understand infidelity, as a culture.

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    3. Yipes Anon. I told anyone who would listen. He was SO worried about hurting me that while he was fucking the COW he sought advice from his sister, his best friend, his writing partner, his friends from high school (he graduated in 1972 lol). The list is endless of who "knew". But I was disclosing before I knew any of this. And I'm glad I did. In fact, the first 3 people I told were our adult children. I demanded that they not take sides, however, and that I wouldn't be telling them any of the details. I did have to send them a picture of the COW 2 weeks after discovery since she tried to kill herself and homicide is next to suicide. I wanted them to be safe. The best thing I could have heard was from our 25 year old son: "My GOD Mom, I can't believe Dad would tap THAT." (I still can't believe that he would, either.)

      So I'm fortunate that no one asks questions that has no business asking now. I was blessed with support and understanding. People were shocked that I wasn't going to leave and get a divorce. I'm surprised that wasn't my choice, also.

      People see us together, see me happy, and that is probably why there are no questions. I made it clear that I was going to stay and that I wanted to make the marriage work.

      For me, I don't think telling or not telling was a factor in my healing. It was automatic to cry out in pain and hurt via anger. This is a long process and I am so happy to have more sane days than crazy days.

      It does a number on us, as we all know.

      Stay strong. STRONG. If you're reading the blogs, YOU ARE STRONGER FOR IT.

      Love,

      Suzanne : )

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    4. Anon, I'll toss my 2 cents in even though I'm late to the party.

      I told just about everybody. I needed to. I needed to find my supporters and I did. But if you do, be prepared that you will quite likely feel judged and feel blamed if not BE blamed outright - which happened to me. Even if you share on a strong day, you'll have to deal with the extra BS on your weak days too. You may need to cut some people out of your life after you hear their response.

      Approaching anti-versary #2 soon and I find that I regret telling people a little sometimes. I feel like there is an expectation that the whole mess would be cleaned up and behind us now if the relationship had any real value. They try not to say it but I can hear it in the questions they ask. Of course, this is only the ones who haven't been there and are still certain that they'd have their H's bits off if it were them. So I try to take it with a grain of salt.

      But if you share, you will find your people. Just like the ladies here at BWC. Every time I find one and share stories, I take it all less personally. I can't see them and continue to believe that this happened because of some personal, tragic, incurable flaw in myself. It's just human BS and we're human. Even the assh@ts we married.

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  41. Ladies,

    First of all, I want to congratulate you: not only did you survive his affair, you ladies are able to give amazing advice. I applaud you all!

    I've been coming to this site since D-day, so I've "known" all of you for almost 18 months now. I never felt the need to contribute to the conversation, just reading here was enough for me. Until now, because I'm so stuck, I don't know what to do.

    (Okay, after typing all this, I realize my story is reallyyy long, but I feel you need to know the back story to understand my stuck-ness.)

    Long story a little less longer: we've been together since 2000. I was 18, he was 27. In the first months we were both seeing other people. I stopped seeing the other guy, because I fell in love with my SO. We never had the 'are we exclusive talk' and I assumed (stupid) he also stopped seeing other people. He didn't. He did however tell me he loved me after about a year of dating, which helped with my assumption we were exclusive. When I found out he was seeing two (!) other girls, I broke up with him and left the country to work on a tropical island for the summer.
    He was miserable and kept calling me to apologize. I flew back to him, we finally had the exclusive-talk and moved in together.

    Things were okay. I was struggling with some childhood trauma's, anxiety and couldn't figure out what I wanted to do with my life, so I combined school with two crappy part-time jobs. He had started his own business, was very successful and working all the time. I'm extremely introverted (bordering autism) and need a lot of time alone. So him working nights was no problem for me.

    Until 2003, when I found out he'd been having sex with a co-worker. He had a lot of young and pretty women in his team. But of course, he 'dated down' and his AP was a recently divorced 40-something, overweight and unattractive. (You can be overweight and attractive, no fat shaming!)

    She was sexually very explicit, had been teasing him for months (coming to the office without underwear, telling him how bad she wanted him etc.) and he just thought it was funny, he had no interest in her. Until she pushed some more and that spineless asshole starred in his own porn movie, fucking someone on his desk.

    I was 18 when we met, and had hardly any sexual experience. So when I found out about this, my stupid 21yo brain decided that it was logical that he cheated, because I was a downer who sucked in bed. Of course he couldn't resist a woman like her, despite the way she looked!

    I was however, smart enough to break up with him and move out. As for the OW, she knew who I was. Being the boss' girlfriend, I was at the office a lot. She was always very nice to me. So it felt personal and I called her and yelled a lot of hurtful stuff at her. She cried and apologized. I told her I would stab her if she ever contacted him or me again. (I am a pacifist who faints when she sees a drop of blood...)

    Because I didn't have a fulltime job, I had to move back in with my mother. Being incredibly unhappy about life in general and being cheated on, I finally went to the doctor and got a therapist. Things got better. I realized I didn't 'deserved' to be cheated on because I was young, depressed and inexperienced. I was moving on, found a nice young man to fool around with and my SO was going crazy.

    He wanted me back, he felt horrible about what he did, you all know how they get. He was sweet, compassionate, loving...


    //Part two follows
    // Stucky Mc Stuckerson

    ReplyDelete
  42. // Stucky Mc Stuckerson
    //Part Two:

    So I gave him another chance. Things were okay. As my therapy progressed, things became great. I was happy. We were happy.

    But the sex remained problematic. I was having trouble with hormones, so I quit the pill and we had to use condoms. He hates condoms (of course he had unsafe sex with the OW) so we didn't have a lot of intercourse. He wanted to have sex in the morning, I wanted to have sex in the evening. He wanted sex like once a week, I want sex every day. He is quiet, I'm loud.

    We weren't compatible as lovers. But in the first couple of years, we always were able to meet in the middle and have a satisfying sex life. We experimented and had fun.

    Until about 2008. We were in a rut. I felt we had to work on it, he felt that you couldn't force it and it would just re-appear magically. I was 27 at the time and refused to accept that we would have a sex-less relationship. So I made suggestions. Threesome? Swinging? Clubs? BDSM? Whipping? But no. He wanted none of that. He wanted me, and only me, but he was just too tired from work.

    But I kept trying. And he kept rejecting me. And one day, I was tired of being rejected. I was tired of begging for affection. So I accepted the fact that I was in a relationship with an amazing man, just one with a low sex drive.

    And slowly, the sex disappeared from our lives. From once a month, to once every season, to once a year. Every now and then I would bring up the topic, but his story was always the same: he was just too tired. We had moved to the other side of the country, and his daily commute was 5 hours. Of course you're tired, almost 40, crazy long work days... I understood it and didn't want to pressure him.

    Every now and then I would become insecure and ask him if he was seeing someone else, but he always denied that and managed to say just the right words to calm me down. But in the back of my mind, there was always this little voice telling me that there was some serious problem... But I ignored it.

    Mainly because our relationship had evolved and it was great. We were (are) very compatible partners. We were equals and loved spending time together, talking about small stuff and big things.

    Everything was going so great, in December 2014 he proposed. We both aren't very traditional and even though I hoped we would get married one day, it wasn't a big thing for me. But once he got on one knee, I realized I really, really, really wanted to be his wife, not his girlfriend. Yes, we had some (physical) problems, but everything else was great.

    So we started planning the wedding. I showed my diamond to everyone, even the mailman had to look and congratulate me. It was a strange time. Because I wanted to celebrate our engagement with lots of sex, and he didn't. Too tired. So tired. But after the wedding, when he would have a new job closer to home, he would make love to me all the time, he promised.

    //Part three follows
    // Stucky McStuckerson

    ReplyDelete
  43. //Stucky McStuckerson
    // Part three:

    I started having doubts about the wedding. I always envisioned a small ceremony, but the guest list had grown to 200 people. Food and drinks for 200 people costs a lot of money. A lot. I went dress shopping with my in-laws and they drove me crazy. I didn't want to wear white. "But you HAVE TO, it is a wedding!" So many opinions, so much pressure to do things the way you are SUPPOSED to, and not the way you want to.

    I felt lost. I talked to my SO. He listened to me. He comforted me. I realized that it didn't matter if there were 20 people or 200, what mattered is that I would marry the love of my life. from that point, wedding planning was less stressful and I started enjoying it. This was really happening! After 15 years together, he would be my husband! Not my boyfriend or my SO, my husband! I was the luckiest woman alive!

    Until... (Cue dramatic music)

    One evening, I got a strange message on Facebook, from a fake empty account. The message read that I should be aware of the fact that my fiancé had been having a sexual affair with another woman for years. And if I wanted to know the truth, I should follow him to work on a Friday, because he visited her every Friday.

    My heart was pounding so hard; I was afraid it would literally break. I immediately went over to him and asked him if he had been having an affair for a couple of years, and visited a woman every Friday. He denied. Of course. He reminded me that he works from home almost every Friday, so he couldn't possibly be with someone else, because he spends almost every Friday with me.

    The whole idea seemed so absurd. As if I wouldn't notice someone leading a double life for years! (Spoiler alert: no, I wouldn't notice). So I shrugged and prepared dinner. His favourite meal, but he didn't take a bite. He was sitting at the table, staring at his plate, rambling.
    "This is ludicrous, why would someone lie about this, you don't believe them, do you? We should find out who sent you this message, you need to talk to them, so they can tell you it isn't true."

    I looked up at him and reminded him that I would go wedding dress shopping the next day, with his sister. I asked him if I should go. If I still needed a dress. He told me of course, I should go. The wedding was in four months, and we had time enough to solve this “thing”.

    //Stucky McStuckerson
    // Part four follows

    ReplyDelete
  44. //Stucky McStuckerson
    // Part Four:

    And so I had the weirdest day of my life. Because what happened the next day? I found The Dress. After months of trying on dresses and never getting that feeling, I found The Dress. I looked amazing. My sister in law cried. It was a one of a kind dress, and it couldn't be ordered anywhere. So I had to decide quickly and make a down payment. I refused the down payment and asked the store if I could call them the next day. They promised to hold the dress for me until 10 am.

    I went home. I told my SO I had found the dress. And I told him that I wanted the truth, now. The whole truth. Before I bought The Dress, I wanted to know who and what is was saying ‘yes’ to. In the car on my way home, I had figured that he probably had a fling. I decided that I could forgive him for that, if he was willing to go to counselling and finally work on our sex life.

    He sat me down. He cried. And told me the truth. I wasn't ready for the truth. It wasn't a fling. He had been seeing someone for five years. 5 years. FIVE years. And to add insult to injury; it was the same woman he had cheated with in 2003. I was 32 and looked amazing. (Not to boast, but I do.) She was now well over 50, post-menopausal and even fatter.

    I asked why.

    It was 'easy'. She was 'easy'.

    He didn't love her. He didn't even like her. When he would leave her house, he hated himself and feel disgusted. He would push it all away and forget it ever happened. Until she emailed him again. She would send him pictures. Long stories of what she would do to him if he would come over. And every couple of months, that spineless asshole would cave in, and drive down there again. He would ring the door. She would open the door naked. They would fool around in the hallway. She would make him coffee, because he was tired after the long drive. After coffee, they fucked. They didn't make love, they fucked. After his orgasm, he immediately took a shower. They didn't stay in the bed together, there was no after play. No sweet kisses, no holding each other. After the shower, he would get in his car, loathing himself. By the time he arrived at work, he managed to let that horrible feeling go. By the time he came home to me, he'd forgotten all about what he did that morning.

    //Stucky McStuckerson
    // Part five follows

    ReplyDelete
  45. Stucky McStuckerson
    //Part five:

    I know everything they did for two reasons.

    1. He was so ready to stop living the lie, he answered all my questions truthfully and in great detail. (That is, the ones he could answer. Most of the time his answer would be 'I don't know'.)

    2. I made the horrible decision to hack into his secret email. He refused to give her his phone number, so their contact was only via email. And this is the part I truly regret. I never ever should have read those emails. I never ever should have opened the photo's attached to aforementioned emails. I saw incredibly explicit pictures. Addressed to my fiancé. And I read his responses... 18 months later, I still remember every word.

    I went into a shock. I took of my engagement ring and gave it back to him. I went upstairs, got my suitcase and filled it with 7 pairs of socks, one pair of trousers and one sweater. When I came downstairs, I grabbed the big bag of potatoes I just bought, I didn't want them to go bad. I told him I never wanted to see him again and I got in my car. I had already called my sister, that I was coming to her. She cried. I cried. She asked me if I could drive, if it wasn't better to stay at home, and drive the 2,5 hours in the morning. I said I had to leave now, now, NOW. That I couldn't stay for another minute.

    After 30 minutes I pulled in to a gas station, because I couldn't drive. I was heaving, crying, hyperventilating. This wasn't happening. We were getting married, I found my dress. The Dress. It couldn't be true that he had been with THAT woman, AGAIN, for FIVE YEARS. He turned me down, but he wasn’t tired enough for HER? I went back home. He cried. I cried. I screamed. I went crazy. So crazy that I took off my clothes (I look incredible naked, even when I'm bawling my eyes out) and yelled at him: "look at me! How can you turn this down and go for HER?" He looked at me. He held me.

    We had amazing sex.

    The next day I drove to my sisters'. A week later I received the key to my new house. I'd decided to rent something near (his) our house, because after everything, I couldn't make a clean cut. I couldn't go from planning a wedding to nothing. And: as a freelancer, I had my office in our house. He would send me a text in the morning when he left for work, so I knew I could go to my office without running in to him. I would leave before he came home.

    We cancelled the wedding. The invitations had already been sent, so we had to make un-invitations. It was gut-wrenching. I am incredibly private, so having to tell the world the wedding was off, felt like another roundhouse kick in my face. I felt like my biggest humiliation ever.

    //Stucky McStuckerson
    // Part six follows

    ReplyDelete
  46. //Stucky McStuckerson
    // Part six (or seven, I lost count!)

    People had questions. I didn’t want to talk to anyone. I either cried hysterically or was completely catatonic. I ignored a lot of calls and texts. He tried to find a therapist. It was a disaster. He asked me if I wanted to go to therapy together.

    I agreed. And six months later I moved back in.

    I never expected it, but our relationship is better than it was. He is thoughtful. He is present. He is open, vulnerable and kind. He is making an effort.

    But.

    (Of course there is a “but”. There is always a but in crappy stories like this.)

    After the hysterical bonding phase (which I loved, so much sex! So intense! Looking in each other’s eyes, telling each other how much we love one another!) our sex life became problematic again. Which was a trigger for me. We talked a lot about it in counselling and I understand it takes time to find a healthy balance, and that it is an ongoing process.

    But in the meantime, I’m stuck. Because he tries. But not hard enough. He still believes everything will turn out fine, magically. So when I invite him over to our bedroom on a lazy Sunday afternoon, he refuses. Because he doesn’t “feel like it and has a lot of work to do”.

    At those moments, I try not to yell at him that he never had “a lot of work to do” when she begged him to come over and fuck her. And I succeed, because I understand that yelling these kind of things, damages our relationship even more. Instead, I talk to him like we’ve learned in counselling. So explain my feelings, without attacking him. That it is hard to respect the fact that he is tired and needs to work, and that these rejections are triggering me.

    Sometimes, his response is flawless. He hugs me, comforts me and listens.

    At other times, he is not so great though. Which is logical, because it is a process. There will be ups and downs. But the downs are so hard on me, that I feel stuck.
    The last couple of weeks have been very good. Warm, loving, no triggers, no drama. But Friday I had a major trigger. I couldn’t work past it. So the whole weekend I’ve been bouncing back and forth between lying in bed crying, and trying to act normal. Yesterday in the supermarket, I saw a woman that looked like her. I did my breathing exercises and managed to stay sane. Until I got in the car and I had a major break down. When I came home, my SO immediately saw I was distressed. He sat me down and I started rambling. About sex. That I just didn’t understand how he could email all that kinky stuff to her, but would never talk to me like that. I honestly rambled. The kind of rambles you should write down until your mind clears, and then talk about.

    When I talk about my worries and emotions like this, he only hears me confronting him with his mistakes and he shuts down. While I’m desperately looking for love and comfort, he’s looking for ways to get out of the situation. He becomes annoyed. Uncomfortable. He doesn’t want this. He doesn’t want to see the pain he has caused me.

    And I see his annoyance. And I become enraged. I try to stay calm, I really do. But when he snarls at me that he can’t help me, and that he doesn’t know a solution either, I snap. Because the solution is simple. Just love me. Love me! Hold me! Cherish me! Make love to me! Let me feel I am loved! And when I get to that point, the “conversation” derails so much that I can only think about leaving him again. For good this time.

    //Stucky McStuckerson
    // Part seven follows

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  47. //Stucky McStuckerson
    // Part seven - final

    Because it is not fair that I am working so hard to get through this, this, this mess HE made, and I’m genuinely working on forgiveness and having a happy relationship, and he just shuts down the minute it gets tough.

    And I am the one who has to understand that he doesn’t really mean the things he says during a shut down. I am the one who has to end the painful silence. I am the one who has to hug him, and hold him until he relaxes. I am the one who has to be rational. I need to give him some time to calm down.

    And I know, the fight is still fresh and tomorrow, after a good night of sleep, I will feel different. But I know we will have this fight again. And again. And I know he will get it right sometimes, too, and he’ll be warm, comforting and loving. But the times he shuts down like this, it just feels like another stab in my back. And I know it is up to him to work through that, and I can’t force him to. But he doesn’t “really believe in therapy” and feels we don’t need our counsellor anymore. All he has to do is not cheat again, and we will be happy until the end of times, so he believes.

    And I don’t know what to do. Be patient, see how it goes? Or accept that he will never truly own his mistakes? That he is willing to do everything, until it hurts, then he’ll just shut down. And I don’t really have anyone to talk to, mostly because I am keeping up appearances and don’t want to get crappy advice like ‘well, what do you expect from an asshole that lied to your face for five years?’ So when anyone asks, we’re good.

    But you guys, you know what it is like. Even though all our stories are different, we share the same experience. The same journey. But right now I really don’t know if I want to be on this train any longer… Any advice or just kind words are welcome.

    Much love,
    Stucky McStuckerson


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    Replies
    1. Hey Stucky,
      I'm sorry I'm late to this post. Have been away and just getting caught up. And I know how awful it is to post and not get response so I'm so glad others have posted for you.
      And I'm glad you posted. It must have been hard to write your story but I'm so glad you did. You've been through such hell, like the rest of us. And you're still willing to keep your heart open and try. We're all so fucking hopeful that I breaks my heart sometimes. We just want, so badly, to be loved thoroughly by the people who betrayed us.
      And it's really hard because if these guys were whole and healthy and capable of that kind of love, they wouldn't have cheated. It's that simple. Hurt people hurt people.
      And so, Stucky, I think your challenge lies in whether you're willing to give him the time to become someone capable of loving you wholly, without fear, without shutting down. And, of course, that's only possible if he's willing to work his ass off to become that guy. Because "not cheating" is setting the bar pretty damn low for a lifetime commitment. "Not cheating" is the very least we should be able to expect from our partner. We need someone who is willing to show up, day in and day out, to be with us in our pain, to work hard to resolve the problems that will arise (because they will arise. Nobody gets out of this life without challenges and marriage can either make those challenges easier to bear or become yet another challenge), to be our loyal friend.
      His ability to compartmentalize, to have, essentially, a double life, is indicative of some pretty deep-seated problems. That's not garden-variety cheating. And I don't doubt that he's scared to pull back the curtain and see what demons are lurking. There's a shit-ton of shame attached.
      But there's no other way. Without being willing to face that shame and get to the root of how he was able to lead this double life for so long, he's destined to put up the wall every time you try to create more closeness. Sex isn't intimacy. And intimacy is terrifying to him.
      However, he's not your problem to solve. He's HIS problem to solve. And I think your future rests on his willingness (or not) to do the work.
      I hope he will. At the very least, you two are friends and it can be wonderful to spend a lifetime with your best friend. But it can be hell to spend a lifetime with someone unable or unwilling to really let you into their secret heart, the one filled with shame and pain.

      Delete
  48. He says, "I'm sorry."

    I say, "I know."

    Even though I know that saying I forgive him doesn't mean I'm saying what he did was okay, I just can't say it. Not yet at least. Maybe one day.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Gee,
      You don't ever have to say "it's okay." That would be a lie. I think saying "I know," is an honest response. It's telling him that you know he's sorry. That you hear his sorry. And I think, frankly, that's enough.

      Delete
    2. Gee, I also say, "I know" in response to my H's apologies. It's the truest answer I can give.

      Delete
  49. Hi Stucky, wow your story is so heart wrenching. You are an amazing writer. I almost forgot that I was reading a true story. But like any story there is a true heroine and that is you. You get to write how the story goes from here on out. I read that somewhere on here. "Your heartbreak, your rules." I am right along with you so I don't have any words to help you but just to let you know that you aren't alone on the train. I'm here. Lying besides my own asshole that broke my heart. Reeling between wanting to punch his face out and wanting to "hysterical bond". Don't you just love all of the new terms you learn once you become a fellow betrayed wife? I get the "we're good" comments to family and friends. I saw on a Ted talk about infidelity how staying is the new shame so having chosen that, I feel most people don't want to hear the struggles I'm having. They would have loved to see m kick him to the curb. So I put on my fake smile and nod saying yes, I'm good as I continue to pretend that I am. All the while trying to figure out how this all happened in the first place.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Hi Stucky. What you have written about your OS is a cardon copy of what is happening within my relationship. I dont feel happy because i dont know the answers because my H shuts my out and says i dont remember i dont know. Why do i want the answers so i can move on its all a circle. We too fight again in a few months all about the same thing. Are they doing it a protect the OW!! Why did you do it, "i dont know" of course you know everybody does things for a reason. Will the answer to the question hurt too much. Is it because they are abnormal and cannot get it up if the receiver isnt married to someone else or they are not doing it behind someone elses back or is it because they just dont fancy us anymore. I too was starved of love and affection for years, and things just fall back into that lack of love making again!! Just like you i feel there is something missing. He says he loves me but cannot do the things i think he was doing with the other woman. What is wrong with these people!!! The good thing is Stucky McStuckerson you are not on your own and it isnt us its them xxx

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  51. Hello ladies. Whilst i am here i just want to ask a question please. Why do these guys NOT KNOW WHY they did it. I asked him why was she sending you photos of her private parts ??? Well he says i dont know if was flirting ???? A bit of fun..... yes whilst i am at work, working to pay the bills keep the house going hating my job you two are sat sending pictures of your fa..y and knob to each other and you expect me to move one OMG are these people real or are they completely mad!!! In actual fact i dont know why i am bothering i seriously think i have lost it too trying to sort this f.....ing mess out!!! xxx

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    Replies
    1. Jilly,
      I think most of these guys are telling the truth when they say they don't know. Or rather, they cheated because it felt good. If it didn't feel good, at least in the moment, they wouldn't have done it. But what is the REAL reason they cheated. They haven't a clue. And until they really do some hard work to break it down, they won't know.
      My husband cheated because sex feels good. And because he was terrified of intimacy. Sex with me was frightening because it carried the risk of rejection. It carried the risk of disappointment. And because I mattered to him, those were terrifying prospects. Sex with others was just....sex. If they didn't like him, oh well. If they didn't want to see him again, oh well. Sex was like a drug to him. And I think even to those who aren't sex addicts, sex nonetheless is intoxicating. Affairs are intoxicating. They're an escape from all of those uncomfortable feelings that we all have -- loneliness, a recognition of our mortality, a fear of missing out, of feeling like the best days are behind us, of feeling let down by life. The list goes on and on. Affairs are a way of avoiding real life. And then, the truth comes out, and they realized they risked what mattered for what didn't matter. And that's terrifying too.
      So I don't think they're lying when they say they don't know. And it's only with the help of a therapist that they're able to unpack all this and figure out WHY they risked everything for nothing.
      And then the healing begins.

      Delete
    2. Thank you Elle that helps so much i dont think i am going so crazy now. I cannot thank you enough for being here for everyone xxx

      Delete
    3. What is interesting is recently my husband told me how for a long time during our marriage he was intimidated by my friends, work life, volunteer opportunities, and events we would go to. He said he felt so insecure. He said with his friends he could be himself which was immature. He could not be that way with me. It was his way to escape the day to day life. What is interesting is the person that introduced him to the two ow never liked me and thought I was intimidating and I guess a snob. I am not sure where he got this from but I did not grow up around them and I cannot help that. I came from a very middle class family, am quiet, respectful and pretty reserved in social settings. For some reason it all seems to connect now for me. I always brought up this issue throughout our marriage and I got random excuses since most of his friends did not marry as young as we did that was the main excuse. But now since he told me this it is a major connecting point. I can just see all his issues start to come out. He is working hard and turning the corner and says he really is different. He says it is hard to explain but he feels it internally how different he is. For us it has been 18 months and it has taken him a long time to see how things interrelate and also just to see them in a new light with distance from dday and who he was back then.

      Delete
    4. My H still to this day cannot say "Why". I've tried asking all different kinds of ways, but it doesn't get me anywhere. My H and I are 13 months out from Dday and my H's 18 year affair with OW. For me though, more important than "why" is - why did you keep seeing her?? My H said he knew the minute he took that path it was wrong - he couldn't stop himself. His response to why he kept seeing her "It was easy". For the life of me, I just don't know what the hell that means ... and when I ask, he says "I don't know, it was just easy".
      Today is my birthday -while it is WAY better than last years - it's still not the same feeling. It's not special - I don't know what I expect anymore really.
      After 13 months - I don't feel we have the intimacy. My H cannot express himself, how he feels about me other than "I love you" "I care for you deeply". I'm really sad about that - it makes me want to cry. I think there is really something so wrong with my H - that he just cannot or will not share anything of any personal nature with me - be it feelings about me, his mom and dad, his kids. It's all so esoteric, business like.
      I am beginning to feel like we are better friends than anything else. When I say this to my H - he says "No" we are more than friends.
      BUT (dagger to the heart) he called the OW "my best friend" "My really good friend". So really, do I want to be THAT friend?

      Delete
    5. Anon1998,
      Sometimes affairs really reveal the cracks in our marriage. The things we've managed to ignore or sugar coat. And maybe one of the cracks for you is this realization that your husband's inability (at this point) to really examine himself and articulate his experience to you is a big disappointment to you. You could convince yourself of his feelings before without him needing to express them but now you can't, given his actions.
      A lot of us come to crossroads after D-Day where we have to really consider whether it's the cheating that continues to make our marriage untenable or whether the cheating has exposed some truths that we were successfully ignoring about who our husband is and whether he's capable of being the husband we want.
      There's no right answer except what is right for you. But asking him to make a bigger effort to help answer 'why' is a reasonable request -- and one, that I think, is crucial in ensuring he doesn't cheat again and one that goes a long way toward helping rebuild more than friendship.

      Delete
  52. We was in the middle of losing our house and everything he'd worked for. So guess the reason was there. Instant connection, met in a bar and decided. In my heart he would always have had the affair. But will never know.

    He says now so was a slag that she went into a hotel room with him (although nothing happened ) she paid for the hotel as he told her I would see on the statement. He bought a condom but said once they got in the room, it wasn't right so they went downstairs.
    I've found out and know more about her than he ever did. So he can't understand why she did. Great friends, family, business. Maybe not love. He says she's a wrong an !
    She could have been anyone. Don't believe him on that. He can't answer when I say, so you can snog anyone. Answer - I didn't snog her, not like I snog you.

    Do they go to cheat school. Learn how to look you in the eye. How to answer question minimise everything.

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    Replies
    1. It seems like it sometimes, doesn't it Jane. Like there's a cheaters' manual and they all have a copy. Amazing how alike their behaviour is...and how alike our stories are.

      Delete
  53. I'm on mobile so just a quick reply: thank all you so much for taking the time to read my story, and leaving incredibly thoughtful responses. It really means the world to me.

    I'll write a longer response later, touchscreens and I are no friends.

    Love,
    Stucky McStuckerson

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    1. Thank you for sharing your story. So much was familiar to how I have felt through this process. One thing that I have found is my standards and expectations continue to elevate. What was ok during the "affair years" is no longer something I would even consider. And what we were like right after dday is not enough. I guess I have come to realize that our marriage will evolve and take effort and work forever but I have even told my husband that with time my expectations increase. After dday things changed dramatically but then to settle into more every day "normal" life has been a challenge. I have learned boundaries are huge for me and letting him know my expectations. I speak up a lot more. And in the end I have said that I want more from my marriage and I expect a lot. He has heard me and we have discussions about this. i agree with Elle's post that to be in a marriage free of affairs is not all someone needs. Keep updates coming.

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  54. I'm stuck this week. Me 32 months put. Blech I have been thinking about the affair like it just happened. I can feel the pressure building of anger and more questions. I can't stop it. I'm trying like hell to stop. I refused to have our Sunday meeting because I knew what would spew out of my mouth. He has done nothing but be sweet and kind to me. I can feel my mind going down the hole this week. I hate this part. We are visiting my daughter and I'm trying to wait to talk to him when we get home. I have been busy everyday but feeling the need to hurt him. I hate this part. Most of the time I can control this but not now. I learned when there are multiple stressors at one time - I usually blow up but this is new, this week has not been stressful. Except we are about to finish our dream cottage, my daughters partner is pregnant with twins, and Iniust got a big contract for some work at home. Well I guess it is stress DUH, UGH thanks for allowing me to vent

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    1. LLP,

      We are at around 18 months and your words ring so true to me. We can be in the best place and I have no idea why I just sink into all of it again. Sometimes there is a trigger and sometimes nothing causes it. It is hard to explain. I feel like I am transported back in time to those feelings and sadness. It is so hard. I do agree it typically happens when there is a lot of other stress or very busy times. We made a huge effort post dday to spend a lot of time together and focus on each other. We have talked about this and we are working to really make smart choices as far as what is a priority for us and our marriage. We turn down things more often now especially if it is without couples. We also have been trying to limit our kids getting too busy. We find we are a lot happier if we focus on us and our family. But it is so hard. I wish these times would pass more quickly or come less often. Maybe with time. I hear you and feel the pain!

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    2. LLP, Beach Girl here. I'm just 14 months out and am in a pretty good place however I also get hijacked for unknown reasons except when I do an emotional autopsy I usually find something that makes sense. Most of you are much farther along this journey than I am and it is so helpful most of the time. My husband expresses constant regret. Every single night for several weeks now, for whatever reason, he tells me, "I love you, I honor you, I cherish you and I was faithful to you today as I will be tomorrow and for all the days of my life". Corny I know. We are slowly rebuilding our lives and thankfully we are empty nesters so don't have a lot of extra distractions. When I listen to a sad song or something about cheating or read things like Ozzy Ozborn being a sex addict in treatment I must stop myself from going down that rabbit hole. My husband knows he gets one chance. I've told nobody except my best friend and that took six months. Being married to a sex addict really sucks. He could not watch the Olympics because it hijacked his adolescent mind although after the first time he put it on and shut it off, he was able to "reset" his mind and watch some of the track and field events. I honestly have no idea how the rest of my life will be because it is very restricting to have so many off-limits activities. In one way, it is a relief to simplify my/our lives and we have a history of being somewhat quirky at times so our extended family just laughs when we say, "No TV". I am in a good place today. I did tell him he had to remove his wedding ring. He was crushed. I explained that every time I looked at that I knew that it was poisoned by his whores and that I did not want it to ever touch my body again. He got upset and said something like "I am the one who was evil, not some hunk of metal". Today I told him I was ambivalent about him wearing a ring because of that comment. Tomorrow we will buy him a simple gold band because he wants to wear a ring. I told him that it really did not matter because he wore a ring before and still acted out so putting a new ring on was only good as a reminder for him. He insists that he will wear it as a pure commitment to me forever. I have my rings on but what he does not realize is that the original engagement diamond is in a necklace that I took off and won't wear again. That promise died within two years of our marriage 37 years ago so that stone is off my body forever. The remaining stones I bought as I upgraded my rings over the years. I like them and picked them out myself. So there! I have my moments when I let myself think very evil thoughts and have times when I wish he would just drop dead and free me of this trauma. It is what it is girlfriends. I am working on compassion for me and him. I am working on gratitude for the positive things in my life and there are many. I try to live in the present but I now know, without a shadow of a doubt, that if he fucks up one time, we are done. I am better than this and if he blows this chance he gets to explain to our adult children and grandchildren why Granpa doesn't live with Grandma any more. Much love to you all my soul sisters. Beach Girl

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    3. Beach Girl, thanks for your post. So much of what you said rings true for me. My husband has been saying all the right things for the most part and we are working hard to make our marriage work. Well it seems like I do most of the work as he doesn't like to be reminded of what he did. that part sucks. But like you, my husband knows that there won't be another chance. I can't/won't go through it again. That is my "enough". And yes, then he can explain it all to our children and grandchildren. We are just 8 months out and while the triggers have been better, they are still there. And the evil thoughts, OMG they can be awful especially when he has to travel for work. The mind games are still playing and reeling in my head.

      In thinking and contemplating all things - ha - I think that I want my husband to do things now that he didn't before (for example, buy me jewelry for no reason, send flowers, etc.). And that isn't/won't going to happen as that's just not who he is. So I have to try really hard not be disappointed when those things don't happen. Even holidays because those just aren't things he did. One thing I am doing is telling him when I need something. He's not a mind reader (wish he could sometimes:) and I have to tell him what I want/need. Just for once, I want him to just do something nice unexpectedly for me. Kinda silly, right? 37 years of marriage and I still have to tell him what I need.

      Sending hugs to you all today.

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    4. Feeling lost, I totally get what you say about wanting him to do something without being asked. I have found what works best for us is telling my husband what I like that he does and also giving suggestions. I don't say send me xyz on our anniversary. But I will say it is so nice to receive flowers randomly and I don't care if they are from the grocery store even. I have explained to him that his gestures that come randomly and unexpectedly mean a lot. I have also told him that holidays and special days mean a lot. Again I do not care about gifts but cards and what he writes means a lot to me and I have told him that. He has improved a lot in that department since I have made a point to tell him what makes me feel happy and good. I think that was key he in the end wants me to be happy and he can do that with little effort. It is like with kids intermittent rewards can be so fulfilling. I feel the same way about things like this.

      My therapist made an interesting point and we are at 18 months now since I have felt like my husband is more happy than me and I am reserved and holding back. He said it is just time I have to start letting myself become more vulnerable. I really have worked hard to protect myself but he said based on my husband and his actions and follow through it is time to start that process. So hard... We will see how it goes.

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    5. Your therapist's point, Hopeful 30, about letting yourself be vulnerable in order to get past that barrier to happiness is such a powerful one. And so so hard. But it really is about staying rooted in the present and giving up any hope of changing the past. Your husband cheated. That is simply a fact. But you get to choose whether that fact changes who you are today. We all need to heal, absolutely. But so often, we let that shut down our hearts today. It's effort, of course, until...it isn't. Until that open-heartedness and vulnerability become routine. And that happens once we absolutely absorb that whatever others do to us, we can trust ourselves to remain rooted and safe. Doesn't mean it won't hurt if others hurt us. It means that we know it doesn't change who we are.

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    6. Feeling Lost my two cents here. I'm concerned when I hear "that's just not who he is". That sounds to me like letting him off the hook, and also like not speaking up for what you need. People can learn new behaviors (or unlearn) them. You can absolutely let him know that spontaneous acts like flowers or jewelry or other forms of gift giving that let you know hes thinking about you are important to you. If he's not a spontaneous guy, he can teach himself to be. Bear with me, but he has tools. He could leave himself a note, set reminders in his phone at random intervals that day"bring my beloved wife flowers today" "make her breakfast in bed today". He can also set up positive mental triggers (this is a meditation technique) like seeing a stop sign or hearing a certain song "oh yeah, flowers for the wife!". You can ask for what you need, but if course you can't make anyone do anything. People can learn and grow and change. You deserve the effort on his part so don't be afraid to ask for it. These are just my ideas. This approach may or may not be right for you. Just putting them out there. You deserve to be loved and in a way that is fulfilling to you.

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    7. Still Standing, you're absolutely right. I am letting him off the hook. Thanks for taking the time to respond. It helps to see/hear these things from others. I don't feel like I'm getting the effort from him in that regard. So frustrating. I need to let him know what I need.

      I have been seeing a counselor, but I haven't been getting much out of it. I think it's the counselor so I need to find another one. He seems to focus too much on things dealing with my husband that I have no control over (hard to explain). So how do I tell the counselor I'm not coming back (I've put my appointments on hold due to work obligations and an upcoming vacation) or do I need to tell him? Just not make another appointment?

      Speaking of vacations...we've had this trip planned for over a year. It's a trip of a lifetime and yet I have mixed emotions. A couple of months ago he mentioned he didn't want to dress up on the formal nights. I want to. I told him it was important to me so he said if it was important to me he would do it for me. At least that's promising. I am hoping that we'll have time for some good conversations but not ruin the trip.

      And to everyone -- I can't stand the response "I don't know". To me it says, I know but I'm not telling you. I hate it!

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    8. Feeling Lost,
      You don't need to tell the counsellor anything. You can either just not make any new appointments or offer up a courtesy call thanking him but letting him know that you won't be coming back. Either way is fine.
      I hope you can enjoy your vacation. As best you can, I hope you'll check expectations and simply try and take each day as it comes. YOU enjoy yourself, whether your husband is agreeable or not.
      As for "I don't know", it's infuriating but it's often the truth. Even the reasons they might offer up at first are often focussed on what was "wrong" with you or the marriage as opposed to what was wrong with HIM that he went down that path. It takes insight to understand what stories he was telling himself and if he had that insight, he likely wouldn't have cheated. So the "why" will change with increased understanding of himself.

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    9. Still Standing
      I too hate that phrase, 'I don't know'! It does insinuate a kept secret and it doesn't matter if it's their truth or not! Only they know what was in their heart and mind at those times, and after so much time I had to decide to let go of my need to know every detail of how and why because in the end, again based on how my h is behaving towards me is far more important to our relationship going forward! I'm hoping you have some good quality time with your h as well! Hugs!

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  55. When I first joined this club 10 month's ago I discovered that"time" is truly a 4 letter word. I did not want to hear that the process of rebuilding would take months/years but it does.Things are getting better but I still have some pretty intense triggers.It is scary how fast it happens.
    ...and thank you Elle for your insight on why the cheaters say they don't know why they cheated.My husband's answer "I don't know" sends me over the edge.You f&$ked another woman... almost ruined 35 years of marriage...but you don't know why?
    We are a work in progress


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    1. Gage,
      If they knew why, they likely wouldn't have done it. How many have the insight to note that "I'm feeling a bit lost in my life. My kids don't seem to need me anymore, I feel like an ATM to them, my wife doesn't look at me the same way anymore and I'm wondering if she thinks I'm attractive anymore. My father's death has me worrying about my own mortality... maybe I should take up meditation or maybe I need to speak with a counsellor or spiritual advisor, or maybe I just need to hang with my friends and share my thoughts." Nope. They go blindly into a fantasy world when they don't have to think about any of that uncomfortable stuff. And then D-Day hits and they're as baffled as everyone else by just what the hell they've done.

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    2. Gage
      I don't know if this helps or not but my h going into his mid life crisis had been thinking about sex with other women for years before he slipped over from the fantasy of it into the full blown affair that had him emotionally paralyzed for two plus years. Did he bother to tell me his thoughts? No because he had shame just from his thoughts but not enough shame to say no when the ow first asked him out on the first date. These insights didn't come on dday but somewhat during the months of disclosure when he began to fully answer my questions. He has a very difficult time expressing emotions but he is very good at describing the facts of how it started as well as why it took so long to get her out of our lives. Asked any question regarding electrical engineering and the man can speak for hours, ask him why he cheated and the first answer was I don't know. That answer came by gently guiding my h with how did you feel when questions regarding her continued contact. I had to be careful I was asking questions I needed to hear the answers to. It was brutal to hear at times but I think because we did it that way we were able to work through some of our individual lifetime together resentments. Them days are seldom necessary now so we concentrate on making today better than yesterday even if it's not as good as tomorrow! Hugs!

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    3. Theresa, I wonder why my husband didn't tell me he was unhappy for several years. It wasn't bad but it wasn't good either. I think that telling someone you are unhappy is expressing a "need". Which opens a man up for rejection, abandonment, and a "need" indicates a weakness. It makes you vulnerable. I had the hardest time telling ,my husband what I needed to heal.

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    4. Lynnlesspain
      I still have a hard time explaining what I need to heal My h thinks that nothing he has done or says makes a difference but it does! Today I triggered and it could have led to a major blow up but he did handle it better and he listened to me and I listened to him and I heard some of his pain and shame of realizing just what he had done before I found out about the affair and for the first time I understand that he hurt himself as much as the two women he was lying to. More baby steps to the emotional bond we had before he decided he wanted 'different sex!. He's just as afraid of screwing up our future as I am but still willing to give us the chance to be great again. He wasn't prepared for healing to take this much time or effort. I suggested couples therapy but again his affair was with one of 'those' type of person and he's afraid to say out loud how shitty this makes him feel then and every time I trigger. I'm so thankful I'm beginning to see his emotions again! Lynnlesspain he was not unhappy then just curious about different sex and didn't expect that woman to fall in love with him and in the end she was willing to just be his 'fuck buddy'. He wasn't willing to continue dragging 'two balls and chains' as the old song said. He was so happy when he thought it was over but what he doesn't realize is because she continues to stalk him on Linked In, it's still not over for her. She still rides by our neighborhood about once a month but it doesn't trigger me as much as things my h says or doesn't say can. One day at a time!

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  56. So here's something I'm stuck on. I've typed this out and deleted it a dozen times.

    There's a certain act that we used to enjoy that I can't do anymore because he did it with her. I just can't, I get triggered and have mind movies if I try. I was able to during our hysterical bonding phase, but not anymore. So we avoid it. We still have sex, we just don't do that. I miss the way it used to be, and it makes me sad to think we'll never enjoy doing that again.

    Does that ever go away? Will we have to avoid that forever? It's been two years and two months (not that I'm counting, ha ha). He says he understands if I never want to or am able to do it again, that's his fault. I just hate the feeling that this was stolen from me. I want it back, but I don't know how. Do I just wait for the triggers to fade? Muscle through and do it anyway to try and reclaim it? Or accept that that part of our sex life is over?

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    1. Gee
      I think the answer you seek is one that only you can decide. Our return to normal sex has been anything but normal. However, it is becoming more normal for us as time goes by. In earlier months if I had a bad trigger day, there were times my h just held me in his arms telling me over and over how sorry he was to hurt me this bad. The mind movies are the worst part of all of this heartache! What you ask about reclaiming, I think for me reclaiming my home and my yard and my rightful place as his wife was key in returning my emotions to a more normal place. That said, I triggered badly in March when she attempted to reach out to my h. His reaction to send her back to the judge was key in reducing the impact of that triggered moment in time. My point is, if you try to reclaim your special connection to your h and you trigger, how he helps you through that trigger could help both of you reclaim a part of your happier history. Take as much time as you need before deciding to just accept that part as over. Keep trying it's not ever over until one or both of you decide that! I know this is hard! Time does help with the mind movies, but the best thing that helps me is my h responding to my needs first and for most above his Needs! This is new territory for a former selfish man! Hugs for what I know you are going through!

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    2. I don't have any great answers for you. I feel that way about a lot of things. It goes in waves. Sometimes I even think how can I have sex with him after what he did. Or how can I believe his words after what I read he typed. When I start to go down that path I think to myself there are no guarantees with anyone. At this point I find comfort in the fact that I think I know everything about my husband. It is not pleasant but there is some comfort in that. We are building off of that now. I feel sad for what we lost and it hits me at time. However, what we are building together over time I hope will help that sadness lessen. So I guess I try to focus on the silver lining to all of this even thought that is not always easy.

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    3. Gee -
      Good question... and I am right there with you. I can't help but think what we were doing was "special" and just between him and I. Finding out he was fucking OW for so many years.... just kills me. I am having an especially hard time with "Nothing feels like it is just ours". I mean, all our private moments - personal struggles - OW knows everything. Or at least that's how it feels to me. If I ask my H if he did this with her or told her that - he says "I don't think so".
      I feel so defeated.

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    4. Such a good question, Gee. But so often on this site I read women use words like "never" and "forever" and "always". They're dangerous words because they set an emotional agenda. And, with all we know now, they're rarely true. Feelings are forever (ha!) changing. None of us will "always" feel one thing. It's our actions that can be constant. We can decide that we will "never" do something again or we can remain open and decide that "right now" I don't want to do something. But tomorrow? Or next week? Who knows.
      As for your point Anon 1998, about how sex no longer feels special, I know exactly how you're feeling. And yet, sex between the two of you is nothing like it is with anyone else. It's within the context of a committed relationship, for one thing, between two flawed people who've decided to try and love each through thick and thin. Sometimes, it will feel great, sometimes it will feel ho-hum. But it's between you two.
      Again, it comes down to bringing yourself to this moment in time. Not time traveling in your head to "then".
      So hard when we've been hurt. I know.
      Your husband's response that he "doesn't know" might be an effort to protect you but even if it is, it's also his way of telling you that what happened doesn't matter emotionally to him. It might have been a physical experience but it wasn't a spiritual/emotional one. There's something incredibly powerful about true intimacy -- two people baring their souls to each other through their bodies. And that is yours.

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    5. Gee, The healing path is one long highway with exit ramps that we get off for awhile. We get lost but finally then get back on the highway. This particular exit ramp for me was blow jobs. Ok, yes I said it, we put everything else out there and Elle lets us. I wrestled with this for quite awhile. Knowing her lips had been there and seeing that in my mind. YUCKVILLES. Then hearing my H say "I'm having the best sex in my life. "Yeah sure you are and I don't believe you." This was the process I went through to help me understand why he would say such a thing. First, I looked at his pre-marriage thoughts about sex and how he viewed those relationships. I ask him questions about girlfriends at those times and how he felt about some of them. It is not like I drilled him. We sit outside most evenings before dinner so this was gradual questions. His sex was all casual no connections even in his first marriage. I found out when my husband gets stressed, rejected, depressed, in the past, he goes back to casual sex. His first love found somebody better, his first wife found somebody better then I come along and he thinks I will find somebody better. So I'm a causal monogamy sex in marriage. He doesn't want to love unconditionally. So our marriage is shit and and he goes back to casual sex with the OW. Then Dday, I want a divorce. He wakes up and realized he is going to lose me then he is willing to connect. He is willing to go "all in" no holding back. So my H had sex his entire life without the love connection. No wonder he says it is the best sex ever. So it has nothing to do with blow jobs or penis. It has to do with what is in his mind. Sure our lips encircle the same dick but she never had him, his mind, his commitment and I didn't have it either for a long time. But we do now. That is why Elle says things change. After I realized what I had, I don't care what they did together it will never equal what we have now. When I give him a blow job, I think about the OW briefly every single time, then I remember what I really have and it doesn't matter as much as it did at one time. All the OW had was a penis without the love attached. It is tough, I'm not going to lie. For me after I have been through hell, nothing else mattered which mean I let go, what is the worse that can happen already has happened. Why deny yourself something you really enjoy? The worst has already happened and that is plenty. Be in this for you. What you enjoy.

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    6. My goodness Lynn less pain!
      You go girl! I love your word thoughts! They make so much sense in this jumbled up nonsense world!

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    7. Thank you, Gee, for bringing up something that I've wondered about and thank you, Lynn, for putting those thoughts into words. I have one specific thing. that I struggle with, but I can say that my husband and I now have an emotional connection with sex that is beyond what we ever had in the past. I struggle with separating the fact that my husband did things with the OW that were purely physical. There was zero emotional connection. As he tells me, it was dirty, porn sex. It's a struggle for me to reclaim that one thing, but like everything else, in think it just takes time and me being able to acknowledge that what happens between us is drastically different from what happened between them.

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    8. LLP, I really enjoy your words of wisdom. Great thoughts here.

      I discovered texts from my husband to the OW in which he said he loved her, that they would always be friends. After Dday I demanded he cut off all contact with her, yet through snooping discovered her phone number in his contacts under someone else (she was already someone else on Dday). Told him that was unacceptable and said no more. That was February. The OW told him to put his whole heart into rebuilding our marriage. We are working very hard to do that. I trust that he hasn't had contact with her. And of course, he said he never intended to leave me, he loved me. I wish I could un-see those texts... I think that is the hardest part of all of this. He said he loved her. DAMN it all! I get so mad!! I didn't ask for this shit. This is just another example of how I am fine and happy one day and then wake up the next day and thoughts of it just set me off.

      But thanks, LLP, your words give me comfort and hope.

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    9. Lost - I feel your pain. I read their texts, too. Every last one of them. There were many declarations of love from both parties. And worse than that was that sense of easiness between them in their communications that he and I haven't had for some time. I read him explain that it's easier for him to stay, even though he feels like a shell of himself, because it's best for our children. She told him it was his call on what way he went and that she understood any choice he made. But yet he tells me she meant nothing, it was only sex (even though they texted and talked much more than they were able to have sex given their distance), how it was always only me. I desperately want to believe - but I read them all, I felt them all. I don't believe him. Like you, I wish I could un-see them. There was so much more to their A than he is owning up to. I know he's telling me lies to spare my feelings and to avoid some massive fights. Feeling lost is truly an understatement. I look at this man who is supposed to be my everything and I don't even know him at all.

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    10. A similar story. My OH contact and on/off affair with an ex girlfriend went on for 18 years of our 36 year marriage. I haven't accessed their secret email account as I don't want to know details but, like you he says it was 'just sex'. The contact and communication was long distance like yours but the number of texts and calls I discovered made me realise she had been infiltrating my most private moments for a very long time. DDay was 4 years ago next week and I am getting edgy as she did try to reinstigate 'friendly' contact up to 2 years ago which he has come clean about straight away. The just sex does not wash with me and it is an attempt to make him feel less guilty. He doesn't like talking things out as it makes him feel bad. My attitude is 'tough, compared to what I feel'. Still working on things and managing to keep our marriage alive through the pain. The future is uncertain as I have set the boundary of no contact and he knows that there is no chance if he tries it in any way.

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  57. Gee and All Warriors,

    When I say I know exactly what you are all going through, I do. We all do. That said, I'm done reading PTSD books & books on marriage. I've now turned to Buddha's writings. I take comfort in the knowledge that the ONLY moment we have is the one we're breathing RIGHT NOW. We can never "get the past back"...who would want to? While we're busy mourning the PAST, we've not able to live NOW. We might not catch our H's smile, his tender touch, his own pain. It's been 2 years 2 months here also. It is SO hard. I think it's the hard road to take, to not throw away our marriages. But! We need to heal aside from the memories for which we mourn. Nothing has happened to those! Just think about it for a bit. They are still there. What has changed is the feelings we have NOW. So we need to work on NOW. I think there's a point I'm trying to make here but I'm not sure what the hell it is.

    I have those issues also, Gee. He did things with her that he REFUSED to do with me over the last 35 years. But you know what? SO WHAT. That belongs to her. SHE can have those memories. I have my husband. And he's trying so damn hard. Every day. He really is a changed man. He's the man I thought I was marrying. OKAY, I thought he would always be faithful. Surprise. I AM ALWAYS GOING TO BE faithful, so I can be happy with me. And I can be happy with the man he has become. I am blessed to have had this happen in the last part of my life rather than the beginning (the infidelity, that is). I would rather go out of this life with a happy marriage than have lost it in the very beginning.

    I doubt much of this makes sense. I've done a LOT of work on changing how I think, feel, and behave. I like me better. I liked me just fine before. However, to stay in this marriage I've had to change.

    Gee, make your own new intimacy together. And enjoy the hell right outta it.

    I love you all.

    Suzanne

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    1. Suzanne, I needed your words today! They are so fitting for what I'm going through right NOW. I NEED to mourn the past, but live in the NOW. My husband is trying really really hard. Maybe I need to be more in the now and the future in order to heal and move forward. I really don't see myself with anyone other than my husband so starting today, the day before my husband and I embark on a 12 day dream vacation (planned well before Dday...), I'm going to give it a shot. Live in the now and look towards the future.

      Suzanne, thank you.

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    2. You are so very welcome Feeling Lost. My Mom lives with is, is 90, and has been ill. I've not been able to be here much. I am so very eager to find out how your dream vacation was for you!!!

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  58. Hi sisters,

    I am thinking of reading an Anne Lamott book, any recommendations on which one to start with? Love and hugs to all

    Becky.

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    1. Becky, With Anne, Start at the beginning with Bird By Bird, because it's not about birds, it's more about writing and the process and believe it or not, about the process of life. I have read every one of her books (not her novels) and every single time I walk away with new and wonderful things. There was one clunker I think and she uses a few stories from her life more than once, but they were often pivotal moments, and when they come up in a following book, I feel like I've been thru her with it. I cannot recommend her books enough--Traveling Mercies is a favorite, but i would not start there, or you will miss her relationship with her best friend Pammy, which I think is featured in "Operating Instructions, A diary of my sons first year". (not to be confused, with "A diary of my sons's first son"--you've got to know Sam to from the first Diary and beyond to really get the whole gist of that. So start with Bird by Bird. I hope that helps!

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    2. I started with Bird by Bird, which is ostensibly a book about writing but is really a book about living. LOVED Travelling Mercies, Plan B, Grace Eventually...they're all amazing.

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  59. I've never read any books so sorry can't help. My Husband thinks it wrong to read this site. Forget and move on is his motto. I wish I could my life would be happier.

    I must have a weak mind, because I can't block it out and move on.

    Watching TV this morning and they were talking about another programme called 1st dates. Discussing who pays the bill. The presenter said, in my day the man paid but it's different now (she is mid 50, my age)
    Straight away I want to know whether he paid, did she offer to go half.? It's the reason I can't forget and move on. He's had different experiences to me. I've haven't been on a 1st date since June 1981 which was with him, my husband.

    I really do resent him and sometimes dislike who I'm looking at. It will be me that breaks the marriage as he is working so hard to move it forward, but all I do is throw it back in his face with my jealousy.

    The pain never goes away.

    I've gone on the list of a therapist. I'm hoping he can dig deeper than the counsellors. Someone that can help me move forward.

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  60. Suzanne Miller, thank you for your heartfelt post about your new path in life. I, too, have been walking your path and at 14 months out and after 37 years of marriage, I am beginning to feel a lot like you feel, or at least I can relate to what you are saying. Although I still find myself occasionally looking at the "WTF" was he thinking,doing,acting; it is not productive and hurts me deeply. I've seen major changes in my husband and he seems happier now than ever. I've posted before about my wedding ring feelings and after many "discussions" and tears and difficult feelings on both of our parts, we decided to purchase new wedding bands and I am going to have all the lovely "rocks" in my old ring reset in a new band that is white gold. Our old rings will be put into the safe. The other night we had what I hope is our last conversation about the old rings. My husband sold his motorcycle to buy our wedding rings and they were/are beautiful. I told him that I felt sad about this whole ring thing but that they represented lies, pain and loss. He said he loved the story about the rings and I just said, "It is just a story." I wanted to say some very cruel and mean things about how, in my opinion, the "story" just makes him feel good about himself but does not and never did represent any commitment on his part to be a faithful husband. Proud moment when I censured myself in a painful moment. We are both committed to rebuilding our marriage and making the rest of our lives count. It may not happen but then again, it might. Another major turning point for me was when I read Elle's post of July 15, 2010. Just WOW is all I can say. It is a very sobering post to say the least and is exactly my story except I was married 36 years before his disclosure. I really do not want my adult children and grandchildren to live under the shadow of my husbands anti-social sex and porn addiction behavior and it is up to him to lead the kind of life that will not lead to the disclosure of the past. This is the only chance he gets because, as I told him the other night, "I deserve better than what I got". Much love to you all, Beach Girl

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    Replies
    1. You are welcome from the bottom of my heart Beach Girl. We have new rings, also. I know this sounds TOTALLY wacko.....ANYTHING that my H wore for those months with the c.o.w. I demanded that he get rid of. And he did. We went clothes shopping to begin a new wardrobe for him. 3 of everything. And the watch, glasses, and wedding band were set aside asap while he got new. And his wallet. And his phone. And then I got a new car & he got my old car. I have been frugally saving for YEARS and after d day my attitude was like "WHAT THE HELL!" & while we don't have 'the sky is the limit' kind of money, we certainly could afford to have as many of those heart-stopping triggers OUT of my sight.

      AND....you have so so so much to be proud of Beach Girl! Being able to control what comes out of your mouth is a HUGE HUGE HUGE milestone. You go woman.

      You are doing amazingly well.

      Delete
  61. Becky -- So many to choose from -- I loved Help, Thanks, Wow and Small Victories. She's amazing.

    Gee -- When I trigger during intimacy, I tell myself, "This is mine, dammit. I'm taking it back." This can be amusing, depending on the body parts involved. Then I tell myself that if I'm with him at that very moment, clearly she is not. Hope this helps!

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