Separating/Divorcing Page 7

201 comments:

  1. Yippee, a new page!

    I posted a couple of days ago. It’s possible that my post hasn’t shown up yet because Elle has been busy putting together our retreat - go Elle!
    But on the chance that the post was lost, or I made a mistake when I posted it, I’m going to re-post it.
    Part 1 -
    Once again, I have to apologize for being gone so long. I closed on my house, found another house, signed a contract, started packing… You get the idea. The next month is going to be a whirlwind.
    Gabby, you make very good points about the kids. And it sounds like yours have been exposed to many of their father’s faults through his own actions. So of course you have to help them deal with that. I do realize that, as mine grow older, I may have to prepare them too in some ways. But they are still fairly young, and their dad is very loving with them. And they adore him.
    It’s a funny irony. Your mother protected you too much from the reality of her divorce, and you have taken the opposite tack. I was exposed to far too many of the details of my parents’ divorce, and I am also responding in an opposite fashion!
    Your words to Sam were strong and insightful. And you are so right - facing the realities of his failings is the beginning of letting him go. I have likened leaving an unhappy marriage to leaving a cult - after a while you look back and you think: “Why did I believe that? How did my reality get so skewed? Why did I ignore so much for so long?” Having your eyes opened is hard and painful, but in the long run, it helps. Hugs, Gabby!

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  2. Part 2. -

    SS1, I’m glad the Trigger idea is helpful to you, too. It feels very accurate to me. And I really do feel like even that ultimate trigger is starting to lose its power. I remember when I couldn’t seem to escape the obsessive thoughts - you could easily make a full-page book out of all the writing I did. And now, I feel so much more peaceful. Even the thing about the play didn’t upset me long. There was no backlash, by the way. I have so much hope that I am finally breaking free of the past. I think about it, and them, less and less. Thank you for the good wishes. I would LOVE a housekeeping ghost!
    Sam, my sweet friend, I’m so sorry for what you have been going through. It pained me terribly to read your recent posts. I’m glad you are taking things in easy steps. Your latest post worried me, though. I fear to see you open up again, and be let down..again. Your capacity for love and forgiveness is stunning to me. And I don’t want to see that loving, loyal heart sustain another blow. I know only you can decide how long to hang on, and I respect your choices. I’m not trying to tell you what to do. But I am deeply concerned and will hold you in my prayers.
    When I was in the last months of my marriage, my greatest prayer was for truth. I didn’t want to be deceived anymore. I prayed for truth, so that I could gauge my situation and make choices with my eyes open. I pray that prayer now for you, sister. May you receive truth. May you perceive your situation clearly, so that you can move forward in the best direction. For YOU. Sending you hugs, beautiful friend!
    Selkie, thank you for sharing the poem!

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  3. Phoenix thank you so much for your lovely kind words, I hope your prayers will guide me in the right direction. I don’t see any hope for reconciliation Phoenix it was more of a last attempt to see if there was any small chance before I went for divorce. I don’t want any more blows Phoenix I’ve had more than my fair share and I’m ready for life without him. Whatever I felt for this man which wasn’t much has slowly disappeared and I see him as nothing more than the father of my children.

    Problem with me if I’m so impatient so I want the divorce done and dusted but minimum it will take 3 months and I hate being in this waiting period but I guess it’s their for a reason should couples want to rethink. I’m 99% sure now what I want.

    It’s music to my ears Phoenix to hear you’ve moved into your new home, you sound so content. You really have gone full circle and come through the other side and it’s beautiful to hear. I really hope you ss1, Gabby, Selkie and all the other wonderful warriors will make it to retreat I feel like we have had such a special bond throughout that last couple of years and I want to put a face to a name for a big group hug : ) .. love you Phoenix xxx

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  4. Prt 1 ss1
    Hi Phoenix, I saw your posts come through on the old page in my email (because I subscribe) but when the page is full, they don't list. I'm glad you reposted here.
    I know what you mean about breaking free of the past. I had been having a rough go lately. Feeling raw and hurt and why couldn't he have fought for me. And really kind of feeling like, what IF I had been open to working things out. What IF I hadn't been dating when my ex asked me to maybe go on a date with him. It's been a lot of recycling.
    I don't know how to explain how I've come out the other side and may be at the beginning of that breaking free process. I've acknowledged to myself that I am much more wounded and guarded than I ever believed I was. I'm extremely guarded and so I too, worry about ever feeling safe enough to open up again. I try to push myself that way, in my current relationship, while acknowledging that something light, fun and comfortable is probably plenty for me right now. We laugh. I think he's cute and funny and he's very affectionate, but he is a little guarded too. As much as I want to be loved, I'm not close to being ready to say I love you. I can have interactions and feel warm and affection and then have to interact with my ex and then notice that I am completely shut down. I'm just trying to pay attention and not expect too much from myself or from a brand-new relationship.
    A week ago, my daughter was down with the flu. She had been calling me (I was in the shower) and her dad wanting one of us to come up to college and get a hotel and take care of her for a day or two. Before I had even had a chance to think or discuss it, my ex had committed to one of us going up there. It was super bowl Sunday and it was raining/snowing like a mofo. He was coming over to pick up our son to go watch the game elsewhere. He asked if I was willing to go because he had a big work launch on Monday and it would be very difficult for him to manage while traveling etc.
    I felt angry on a couple of levels. One was the immediate situation. He made the commitment without consulting me and then expected me to handle it. As my daughter is becoming an adult, she may need to learn to handle an illness on her own and especially that I can't drop work and pay for a hotel. The second this that I knew was the bigger deal was that this was just like old times again. His work was more important than anything I had to do, and he hoped but mostly expected me to just make this easy for him. Once again, his work takes priority over anything else. We aren't even married anymore and yet I am still supposed to drop everything, so he can do his work instead of following through with a commitment HE made to our daughter. And he said things like he had a bag packed and would go if I said I couldn't do it but.... There's always the but.
    And then we heard from my daughter's roommate that she was being taken to the ER for dehydration due to the flu. This changed the complexion of the situation. Now it was really about my daughter's health ad what was going to be best.

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  5. prt 2 ss1
    But I had a real conversation with my ex. I said here's what I don't like about how this went down. New stuff and old stuff. We both cried. He talked about how he recognized it was just the same old stuff and he was putting work first. I said that while I have no appointments scheduled, I would be losing a whole workday. And my work, rather than being fun money, matters more than ever now. And that I was not OK that he made those commitments before we knew the situation was serious and expected me to honor them rather than doing so himself. So, I feel like I broke with past pattern where I would have been silent and resentful and feeling taken for granted. And he paid for the hotel and gave me gas money. It was a crazy drive up through snow and freezing rain. Luckily, I am not a nervous driver and have seen worse (though the major road I was on was restricted to 45mph and it was just me and the salt trucks out there ;) ).
    And I got to the hospital in time for my girl to be discharged after getting two plus bags of fluid and some anti-nausea meds etc. We stayed at the hotel and she got a bath and a good night’s sleep. We had some nice mommy daughter time. And I got a text from her that she missed me while I was on the road home. I felt really loved and appreciated in that moment and I just sat with that for a while.
    Every time we have one of those conversations, where we are honest, I can’t help but wonder what it would be like if we were trying to work things out. I have to remember the behaviors that led to the conversation in the first place. And then I see him doing the same old dance with his mom. She’s got an emotional strangle hold on her kids. And he is 100% an enabler of her pity poor me stuff. That’s a problem for me, because I won’t do that dance any more. And then I have to remind myself that when I said not right now to his request for a date and later found out that he was probably still in touch with the OW that while he’s doing work on himself, he’s got a really long way to go. And that when he had the chance to fight for me, he didn’t. That I won’t settle for the crumbs of someone who wants me to make them comfortable again , rather than someone who loves, values and wants me for me. I STILL don’t think he understands how much he hurt me and not just recently. And I’m starting to let of of the idea that he should or ever will.
    Recently, I walked into the family room where he was sitting with out son. It was their dinner night. Boy child was on the Xbox. Dad was busy on his phone. I expected myself to get that lurch of “oh shit what if he’s talking to her.” And my brain was like honestly, I’m too fucking tired to care anymore. So, I was expecting to be triggered, leaning into it even and my brain was like “This is just stupid.” For right now at least, I’m “whatever” about the whole thing. Tired of hurting over it. Tired of him being stupid and clueless about how I might feel. And then yesterday I walk in on him taking a selfie where he is waving hello. And I’m just like wow, that’s funny. And I expected more of a lurchy feeling in my gut but really, I was thinking wow that’s just kinda sad. I’m assuming he’s doing that for some woman. Maybe he’s started talking to people on match or PoF or something because I can’t picture him sending a shot like that to his guy friends. And mostly I’m just kinda tired of it all and him and how weak he is and how he just gave up and lost everything.

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  6. prt 3 ss1
    And I thought, another time, when I was really lonely and feeling stressed about work (imposter syndrome when you are an artist is such a bitch) and imagined going to him for comfort and I just couldn’t see it. He simply never knew how to respond and comfort or nurture. I’ve had no one willing to give of themselves to support me for so long, I’m actually better off alone than with him. And I’m not alone. I have so many lovely friends and good relationships now.
    In our conversation he talked a lot about all the guilt he still carried. And that there’s guilt for things now but more guilt from things past and he expressed a desire to deal with that. I’m wondering if now is a good time for me to tell him that his guilt is probably more accurately described as shame and there’s a big difference. And that also one of the ways you help move on and process is to make an apology, make amends, acknowledge the pain you’ve caused. He’s never said sorry to me. He’s said, “I regret not working things out when you offered.” But that is no where near an apology. In fact, that still sounds like it is an awful lot about him.

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  7. Guys had anyone else experienced this when talking about divorce to friends. It’s almost the same reaction you get when discussing your h betrayal. So anyway I’ve told a few colleagues that I’m in proceeds of divorcing just in case I need someone to talk to whilst I’m at work and honestly I feel like I’m justifying why I’m divorcing him. I mean one asked if I had someone else?? It’s shocking how women react. I actually told my colleague/friend today that if she had told me she was getting a divorce I’d be there to listen and help if I can but not judge, I would know that she has reached that decision for her and that was good enough. I reckon people become uncomfortable because they then question their own marriage, it brings up difficult feelings for them. As each day goes by I am accepting my new reality and ready for life without him and his behaviour. Honestly I don’t know how I’ve lasted the last 15 years it’s only these last few months I’ve realised just how accommodating I have been with him and his family. I do worry about finances but I will have to cut back on essentials especially as I’m starting university in sept and really wanted to get to this retreat but with what’s going on I can only see how things have panned out nearer the time. I’ll need childcare and financial help and that’s 2 things I know I can’t rely on once the divorce is final .. I’ll get play it by here .. xxx

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    1. Hi Sam A
      One to ponder! Maybe you could do your paper on this when you undertake your course - the reaction of other women to women over divorce.
      I have heard over the years, some women become uncomfortable when a wife is now on her own as they perceive her as available and a threat to their own marriage.
      It is shocking how women react: how some women cheat with our husbands, to these women who offer no empathy to us. And I reckon you're right too how this now makes them uncomfortable and question their own marriage.
      Really? The last thing on our mind is another man and especially someone elses! I don't think they realise the pain we are going through.

      I hope you have some good friends who are there for you.
      I hear you and I feel exactly the same. How in blazers did I put up with him and his parents for all those years???
      I was always happy to be happy going and accommodating, but him and his parents took advantage of my kindness. Would I change? I would now never let others take advantage of my kindness or disrespect me, but I have a lot of love in my heart and it will be on offer to the right man if ever I decide to have another relationship. So I suppose that's me but I now can see those red flags flapping madly whether its windy or not.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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  8. Gabby

    That’s so great to hear, being among strong women is my favourite past time : ) .. women amaze me with their courage and strength. I really hope I can get to the retreat too I want to hear all about what’s making you happy .. I’m intrigued lol xxx

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  9. Sam A I find that people's reactions vary. A lot of the folks in our neighborhood knew he was cheating because he confided in one and others just figured it out from his behavior any my astonishing weight loss. So their reactions are more just like "wow tragic" or "what an ass" etc. but others definitely act like divorce is an infection you can catch and I see a lot less of them. Some people absolutely judge, but I think that comes from a place of raw fear and insecurity. They can self righteously pat themselves on the back that THEIR marriage is never going to come apart, that THEIR best friend would never do that to them etc. There's a lot less of those people in my life too. While I was going through the worst of it, and still fighting for my marriage, I told most of my clients that I had health issues that were impacting my ability to work. I didn't feel like they were entitled to any part of my personal story but I did need to use this to leave an open ended "if at any time you are concerned about my work etc. let's talk about it.." So it let them know I was going through something and in all honesty, I think PTSD counts as a health issue. I've lost my train of thought..
    Most, the vast majority of my friends have been very supportive. And typically, if they assume anything, its that he was banging someone at work, not me. i think your colleague's assumption/question about the possibility about you having someone else, is much more telling about her, her baggage and issues, than it is a reflection of you.
    Also, interestingly, the men I know are a lot less judgemental or in some ways clear sighted about the divorce. Maybe because it is packed with less fear of being able to provide for themselves economically. One said to me "Too bad he couldn't have had his mid life crisis BEFORE he moved his mom in." Amen, brother. Amen.
    You don't need to justify your decision to anyone. You've given this man so many chances.
    And even though it is hard (I still do that second guessing thing on the daily) I know that I am a happier healthier person without him. That the person I want to realize what he is losing and fight for me does not exist. If he did, he'd be doing it. Sigh.

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  10. I was doing really well. I think I was getting an inkling of moving on. Of maybe really being ready to let my ex go. Because I know I am still attached. And so last week I was like, Maybe it is time to stop thinking about and worrying about what this guys says or does. Maybe I can give up giving a shit for Lent. I took some steps toward that.
    And I think its scary. and subconsciously I had a bit of a rubber band effect. Bouncing back hard into obsessing about why he couldn't fight for me and feeling unloved and not good enough. and some work and volunteer stuff compounding that not good enough feeling. And so I've been pretty raw this week. Trying to be patient with myself because I'm here so clearly there's work for me to do where I am. Local weather not helping. Rainy, dreary with erratic temperatures that tease spring and revert back to cold and rainy. I run on sunshine and have had no fuel for my tank. I'm feeling lonely and I need to figure out why that is. Likely I'm paying too much attention to what I don't have or what I think is missing instead of thinking about what I do have. Gratitude, girl. Pay attention, me!

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  11. Gabby , divorce is new to me but I’m learning so much along the way! It’s insightful and disappointing to hear people’s reactions. I’m feeling stronger as the days go on and fighting my corner as I go. I know I have a way to go but I’ve taken that step and will continue to take the next step and the one after that. I see a different person at the end of this divorce someone with a bigger heart and a new found respect for anyone who has had to walk this road. I didn’t expect 2018 to start this way but I understand that this is God’s plan and he knows best xxx

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  12. Guys Ive done something really stupid to myself. Yesterday was my ex's night with my son. He comes here and makes dinner. We were talking about various things with the kids while he was in the kitchen cooking. And about my daughter. She wants to have her car up at school next year and maybe hasn't thought about the added expense, gas. I joked about how much more an oil change on a BMW costs. And he jokingly said "yeah, she's lucky she has a sweet ride that her dad bought her out of guilt." and then he said " I definitely had stuff to feel guilty over." And I felt overwhelmed by affection for him. This was as close as he's ever gotten to admitting wrong doing directly to me. And I gave him a spontaneous hug. Thought for a moment there might be hope.
    Then today, I don't know why. I had to go on LinkedIn. In general, unless I am doing work posting for a client, I try to stay away. On a hunch I looked up the OW. She fucking works at the same company as my ex. He would have to have gone out of his way to get her hired there. Un. FUCKING. Believable. So while I'm agonizing over did I make the right decision. And he's saying things like "I regret working things out" he's also bringing this stupid girl who destroyed my family along for funsies. FUCK HIM. and shame on me for caving in to that urge to look. I'm not even surprised. But still so hurt and disappointed. And now I so want to call him on his BS. How did he think that was going to work with him there and working things out with me and her working there too? What the living fuck?

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    1. SS1,
      You're SUCH an optimist. And I love that about you. And I love that you can see potential for redemption in this guy. BUT...he has shown you who he is. And he has shown you that he'd rather be this guy who hides things and sneaks and lives without scruples than be a decent, straightforward, honest guy. He doesn't want to be better than he is.
      So...now you know. And although I understand your impulse to be angry with yourself, let me tell you how I see it. I see someone who is capable of seeing potential good in people, who wants desperately to believe that people are better than they appear. I see an optimist. Not a fool. You are most definitely not a fool.
      I wouldn't discourage you from letting him know that you know she works there but be prepared for a whole lot of bullshit about how she got the job herself, etc. Or maybe he'll have the decency to look sheepish. Who knows?
      SS1, he is giving you EVERY reason in the world to feel good about your choice to move forward. I applaud your desire and your ability to co-parent respectfully with him. Your kids will benefit from that. But move forward. Grieve for the fact that he's an ass. Grieve for the guy you thought he could be. But accept that he's somebody else who, knowing what you know now, you wouldn't give the time of day.

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    2. Ss1 I did a post earlier but lost it so I’ll try merge the two. Ss1 you often talk about your ex not fighting for you but I would like you to look at this differently, if he had have fought for you no doubt you would still be in a marriage where you felt unsafe. He knew he had lost you, he knew he couldn’t live up to your expectations so he bailed out, he’s a coward. You my love are worth much more than a man like him fighting for you. If I’m honest I’m glad my h isn’t fighting this divorce it would only make this situation difficult and ultimately I know it wouldn’t change my mind so I’m relieved he’s going along with it, he has no choice in the matter.
      Ss1 maybe some counselling sessions on figuring out why you are feeling lonely might be helpful. I don’t want you to get stuck at this point, I’ve seem women never get over their h not choosing them, you will not be one of those women, you recognise your worth you know it was a default in your ex and not in you. Ss1 know you are loved Amd valued here, I for one think you are ace ; ) ..

      I pray the sunshine comes soon so you can refuel ss1, you make our life’s so much brighter.

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    3. SS1
      Don't feel bad for how you have handled all this recently.
      1) You are a compassionate person. What is the relationship you now have with your ex? If it is now a friendship - you can hug your friends - right?
      2) I don't feel there's anything wrong with checking up on his bitch - NOW it confirms and is a reminder to how pathetic our exes are and makes the decision to not be with them anymore that easier.

      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    4. Hi Gabby, yes thank you. We are trying to be friends or at least on good terms for our kids and honestly , for my own sake. Because sometimes it felt easier to hate him, its really not good for me to hate anyone long term. So yes, I can hug my friends. The hug itself was not the issue, but rather that I let my guard down again.
      I feel sometimes, like I have no idea what I am doing. Probably means its time, right now, to not worry about knowing what I am doing and just take a rest.

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  13. Thanks Elle, I needed to hear from someone. So thank you. I am an optimist about people. Another thing I learned somehow growing up with an alcoholic I guess. Hoping one day that they'd do better. And in my story, no one ever does. (In the shitty first draft version anyway. truth is lots of people show up for me on a regular basis.)
    I just wish it didn't hurt so much. I think I need to remember that I spent most of my adult life wishing this man would love me more or enough and he just never has. Goddamit he's such a piece of shit.

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    1. I think that's one of the hardest parts of any betrayal -- wishing it didn't hurt so much. So much easier to be angry with ourselves than be hurt when others let us down. SS1, he isn't good enough for you. And he knows it.

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  14. Hi ladies, just when I thought he was in agreement with the divorce and that it would be a smooth process he lets me down again . Last night he cans round as I was getting the kids ready for bed, I didn’t let him in it was an inappropropriate time and I asked him to leave. I’m not sure any of what’s been happening the last few weeks has sunk in for him yet. He had a 3 hour conversation with the guy who is conducting the divorce the other day so I was hopeful he was on side with what I wanted. Clearly not. I don’t get this mAn st all but like Elle said to someone else yesterday it’s not my job to understand him. I’ve got a tough couple of months ahead I need to be strong and not let his bullying tactics sway me in any way. I don’t hold any hate or love towards him I just want peace in my life and I hope once this is final I will get it..

    Having woken at 4am this morning I was thinking that maybe I should pay the ow a visit to let her know he would be divorced in s couple of months so she wouldn’t feel guilty about sleeping with a married man after that. I’d probably want to shake her hand too and wish her luck. I’m not going mad seriously I’ve just removed myself from the whole shit storm and it’s like I can now deal with with like an outsider. This woman may be my children’s future step mother I mean we know this happens I’ve read it many times before I’m preparing myself right?

    Honestly I worried I might just have a breakdown any day soon as I can’t believe I’m being so rational but let me tell you why I think that maybe, firstly my belief in god, I’m turning to god and he’s running to me to offer me strength. I truly believe this I believe in him and he believes in me. Secondly this isn’t my first d day it’s my 3rd and there’s been a whole lot of stuff going on in the mix, separation, death of my mother, lots of counselling for me, him being a mean, tight unkind selfish, entitled man and me observing everything he does and doesn’t do and voila here I am confident beyond belief I’m gonna be so much better without him. When you break I’d down into laymans terms it’s really simple : ) it’s taken me years but I’m here today thAnks to god, my support network and my children.
    I wish I could sprinkle some of what I have right now on some of the btw who are struggling, trust me when I say it won’t feel like this forever, don’t let it be the maker of your own happiness ladies, so much love we have here so many big hearts don’t lose that..

    Thank you for listening my lovelies, sending you all a saturday morning hug ... xxxxx

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    1. Hi Sam A
      I'm glad you have a good support network. You will find the people who want to help you will be there, those who don't show up - well you know where your importance with them is. Support comes in all forms, even just a quick note to say "hi, thinking of you and hoping you are ok"...to me is a great support.
      I went on bit of a roller coaster of emotions since our second separation. It was mainly due to the financial implications of our impending divorce.
      What helped ME deal with a lot of this shit storm is going no contact with him.
      All his promises are full of shit - from our martial vows that he promised - and broke - to all he promised financial security for me and the kids that we would be looked after with the separation. He has now reneged on this promise as he undertakes his new fantasy life of self indulgent entitlement with his new bitch. They are both as bad as each other.
      Personally, I can not speak to so someone, even the ex, who has chosen to hurt me and his children with all he has done. I know there's been posts about hurt people hurting others - but I'm really over it all. We all have had things to deal with in life and as adults they are responsible for their choices.
      Sam A. I too would like to contact my h's new bitch and give her a piece of my mind, but as all this is now in the hands of lawyers, I don't want to jeopardise anything at this stage.
      In terms of how you are feeling. I think with all the d days we have experienced and our h's lack of willingness to deal with all this, we have had to learn to deal with removing ourselves from all of this shit storm. My heart has definitely hardened toward him. I too wondered if I would ever have a breakdown as I was dealing with all this with a degree of calmness. Part of me - a lot of me would not let myself be destroyed any more by him. I've spent the last couple of months building my confidence back up. Still a work in progress.
      I'm glad you can see so many positives in life and spreading the love to all just shows how amazing a person you are when you yourself are going through a difficult time.
      Hugs to you my dear friend
      Gabby xo

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    2. Sorry if my replies seem short and to the point. Got a very busy day and didn't want to lose my train of thought.....
      Hugs to you all
      Gabby xo

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    3. Gabby, thank you for your response, I love how you have worked on your confidence I can hear it loud and clear : ) . Hugs right back to ya xxx

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  15. Thanks for the kind words Sam A and thoughts. The good news is that I still see my therapist every other week and my reiki guy just about every week. I know I don't want to get stuck here. My big challenge is this whole "not feeling chosen" thing is not just about recent events and my ex. The shitty story I have been telling myself since the dawn of time is that no one ever loves me enough to want me or stay or choose me. This is baggage from an alcoholic parent and they silent, absent other parent who was in denial about his alcoholic wife. Its some serious stuff I still struggle with. I'm struggling with it now in my new relationship and I'm trying to be really mindful of the lies and confabulations I am telling myself. It's hard work and I'm tired just now.
    I had been away for the night last night and cried quite a bit in the wee hours but my new guy was very kind about it and cuddled with me. He was pretty tired today and I had to wrestle with feeling like my emotions and being vulnerable ruined his weekend. In fact I can feel myself bracing for the rejection that usually follows me opening up. Trying not to look for that so hard that I find it. But when I go away, my ex will come and stay in the guest room because my son prefers to be at home. I found an empty beer can in the guest room. :( Just. So tired of it.
    The other thing that came to mind when I was having a good soak in the tub and I realized its about the time when, tow years ago now, I found out my ex was back in contact with the OW, my 2nd dday. And I basically, subconsciously, recreated that for myself by looking her up on LinkedIn and seeing he had brought her to the new job. Wow. I mean goddamn if my subconscious mind did that, what else am I inflicting on myself and reliving and don't even know it?
    And Sam A send Tinkerbell my way to sprinkle some of what you've got on me! :) my other big bugbear is that I can't provide for myself.
    I also sent myself a love note a year ago that said "The pessimist gets angry at the wind, the optimist believes the wind will change and the realist adjusts the sails." I'm still the optimist and I need to figure out how to become more of a realist without losing my belief in the basic decency of human beings.

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    1. SS1
      It's my bugbear too that I'm unable to provide for myself and my kids.

      It's not right at this stage of our lives to have to go back to struggle street when we've been doing all the mum/wife things in our family.
      The courts are not really compassionate in this area.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    2. Gabby its stinkds doesn't it? Meanwhile we are brilliant, capable women and kicking ass in reality. I budgeted really well this last year and kicked ass at my taxes with cash to spare. What I am afraid of is when the alimony runs out as it represents 2/3rds of my current income.
      So I feel like I've just kicked the can down the road in some ways... That the post divorce financial struggle (and not that money is not tight, I'm just a beast at saving as it turns out) is put off until the time runs out on the money from my ex. He had the gaul (sp?) to make a joke with me about the amount of alimony he agreed to, to my face. I got really upset, almost started crying. Later I just got angry. How fuckign DARE he? I earned every goddamn penny of that money and then some.
      But yes, I feel like my career was set back by a decade because I opted to step back and stay home with the kids. Our mutual arrangment. And so now I am more of a starving artist than the high powered executive. I don't think I wan to go back to high powered exec but still, I will need to make up the difference somehow in the next few years. I struggle with the idea that while I am pretty good at a lot of things, I am not great at any of them.
      So I need to ignore that voice and carry on and you do to Gabby. We are grown and highly employable women. We can provide for ourselves. And think about the benefits. When we do, we will never have to fear anyone taking that kind of security away from us again.

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  16. Ss1 I’ve been holding you close in my thoughts recently, I wish I could help you the way you help me and many others here. I hope you can tackle those past demons and put them to rest you deserve peace of mind and to know that you are loved and well worth the fight. Holding you tight my love xxxx

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  17. Hi
    As you know from my posts my anger towards my whore boy ex and all his whores is real.
    (BTW - what's a really degrading word for whore husbands?)
    I don't hide from it, but I've often wondered about my mindfulness conflicting with my anger.
    Let me clarify...the only times I am angry is when I think of him and what he and his affair partners have done.
    I know people say you have to release the anger etc, but I just can't let it go, as for ME, by not being angry at him and if I was to talk to him, this will condone his and their behavior.
    But I came across a social media thing that said

    "A saint was asked - "What is Anger...?'
    He gave a beautiful answer - "It is a punishment we give to our self, for somebody else's mistake".

    So I sat with this for a moment and I thought perhaps this is true to an extent. But no one is angry at STBX for his choices (not mistakes) and he has not been made to be accountable for what he and his affair partners have done to me and the children.
    I feel being angry keeps me in check and not let me get caught up in having feelings for him and go back to making excuses for his behavior and even taking him back!!!! God forbid - NEVER.
    Just sharing my thoughts and feelings with you all.
    Here's to warmth and happy days
    Gabby xo

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    1. Gabby I find being angry only ever hurts me, your right though it does serve a purpose like in your case it helps you keep that distance, however at some point you will have to come face to face with him and have conversations whether it’s about you two or the kids and them feelings will reappear even if only slightly. Having your boundaries in place will prevent you from falling back into the old routine. I too felt I could just divorce him and get on with my life, works out it’s not going to be that simple, it never is and I was nieve to think that would be the case but I’m learning as I go, I’m learning to stand up for what I believe in, I’m standing my ground and it feels really good .

      Happy days indeed Gabby . Lots of love xx

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    2. Hi Gabby,

      I envy you your clarity of mind about being angry. You do what you need to do. That anger is powering something, some kind of change maybe. When you are on the right track, the anger should die down.

      I don't think it's an emotion we are able to endure long term without getting exhausted and depleted. But enjoy it while it's there! Use it as a means to action.

      I sometimes feel like I'm in a parallel universe (because my h can't manage to face any honest expression of my feelings without crying himself or blocking me out - it ends up that his feelings 'look' more dramatic than mine, so I don't get to fully go through mine). I think he is scared of standing in the line of my storm. But I need to do it.

      In the meantime (in front of family, children, etc), I am really normal and fine. I sometimes feel fine. It's very weird because I KNOW that stuff has to be dealt with. I do not WANT to pretend that nothing happened. But somehow I act that way.

      My tears and sadness/ rage tend to come more when I am alone. I wonder why I can't feel or show my anger/ distress more effectively to my h. Probably because he keeps backing away from it...

      I am scared of ending up with a stone heart that feels nothing.

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    3. Sam A, Selkie
      I'm talking to my therapist about how I feel so angry about him. There's a lot to deal with how I've been betrayed not only by him, but by his parents as well - and especially how he's not considering his children.
      It's not a place I intend to always be in, but for now, this is a way of protecting my heart.
      Selkie. My husband could never deal with adult talk about our issues, so part of my anger comes about from my frustration from not being able to have adult talks with him. He would not listen to me to listen, but always to respond. I now know he couldn't talk because I was finding and telling truths about him that he didn't want to face. But like I've said, I only have angry feelings over him and what he continues to do to the kids, but the rest of my life I am very happy with.

      Selkie. We will never have hearts that feel nothing. We love and have the love for our children and that can't be obtained with a heart that feels nothing, so, yes, we'll be guarded, but we'll know what red flags to look for and WE WILL find happiness with loving hearts.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    4. Thanks, Gabby,
      Hope things are going better for you too these days. I am sooo tired of it all!

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  18. Such a lot of upheaval, so much struggle. This is the price of being strong, loving women, I guess. We can’t take the easy way out because our feelings are real, and run deep.
    Y’all, I’ve been working every day and packing at night. My closing is tomorrow. My precious dad and stepmom have been helping me so much, and so has my wonderful mom. A guy I’m seeing came down to help on Saturday, and my sweet former boyfriend helped me out today. I’m very grateful for the people in my life. I’ll be moving boxes all next week.
    SS, I understand what you’re going through. Even when I had given up on our relationship, it’s still cut like a knife when I saw evidence of his continued involvement with the skank. He would say loving things to me, and then I would get sucker-punched. You were actually the one who helped me understand. You pointed out that he was lying to everyone, trying to please whomever he was with. He was willing - is willing- to tell whatever lies he needs to tell in order to make himself look good, to keep us loving him. It makes so much sense. It still hurts though, even now. Gabby is right; no contact helps a lot. And Elle is right, they just keep showing how very right we are to be closing the door on them.
    This may sound harsh, but sometimes I think of it as amputating an infected limb. Yes, sometimes you miss the limb and sometimes it feels like it’s still there. But it’s an illusion. When you really, REALLY think about having that painful, infected limb back again and trusting your life to it - you recoil.

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  19. I had to text the skank the other day. That was fun. Ex went off the radar for a couple of days, no one could reach him - which was ok with me. But his dad, my precious FIL, got worried sick and started planning to drive over an hour to check on him. He called me for directions because he’s not even sure where ex’s apartment is. So I gritted my teeth and initiated contact with the skank for the first time ever. I texted her and, after apologizing for the abruptness of the communication, I briefly explained the situation and asked if she had heard from him. She responded by saying that he had lost his his phone, and he would contact his dad soon. I said “thank you”. She did not respond with like courtesy because, you know, skank. But at least she gave me the information I needed to keep my sweet FIL from driving an hour.
    I swear, though, I wanted to throw up.
    Later, I told Ex that I did not want to be put in that situation again. He apologized, and he thanked me.
    He’s talking about dying of cancer again, after 7 months of not mentioning it. I spent more time researching compulsive and pathological liars. God give me strength.
    He still says she’s “scared” of me, this time because his parent will always love me the most. Well, bless her heart. I only spent more than 20 years being their daughter. It must be tough for someone without loyalty or depth to understand it in others. How very bewildering for her.
    Y’all, sometimes I still get really bitter. It worries me. Especially since my kids are stuck in the middle. It’s not good for them or me. But sometimes I still feel such a rush of hatred toward those two selfish, cheating rats. Sam, I’ve prayed about it. I’m trying.
    Tomorrow night I will start moving into to my new sweet little house. I want to let go of anger and find my bliss.
    Selkie, you are strong, brave, and beautiful. I know how overwhelming it must be, facing this with your little one. Take it one step at a time. You will look back after a while and be shocked at how far you have traveled. One step...
    Sam, you are sunshine and grace. Sweet, lovely friend, you are such a blessing. But don’t be afraid to express the negative feelings to us, if you need to.
    SS, we will get through this. Damn it, we WILL get through this. We may keep falling down, but we will keep getting the fuck back up again. Every time. It will take more than weak, lying men and shallow, heartless skanks to keep us down.
    Gabby, I hear your righteous anger and disgust. I feel it too. Yeah, adults get on with it. They own their mistakes and they don’t grind others down. I’m glad you are distancing yourself, and building your confidence, because you are worth 50 of them.
    Hugs to my sisters. I’m so proud of you. I’m so proud of us.

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    1. Lovely to hear from you Phoenix, I will try to express my negative feelings more lol I’ve had a few bad days, I’ve been getting all my feelings of frustration and anger out on the h, he is now wanting me to reconsider the divorce or stall it, says he wants me and kids the family blah blah blah you ladies know what I’m talking about I’m so angry as I thought he was going to agree and we could do this civilly no drama just part as friends, well I got that wrong I’ve been fine whilst I’ve not had to talk to him but was advised by the divorce person to listen to his version of events, I didn’t want to listen I was just angry swearing, shouting and wanting to be sick with fury, fury at why he couldn’t do this one thing for me and let me go in peace, I hated listening to him because through communicating My heart gets a little soft and I question what I want. Even though I know what I want I question it. I just want some peace today so I’m not gonna think about it I went to bed with pains in my chest yesterday i felt like running away from it all. Woke up feeling a little better. Just feels so awkward being in the same room as him I find it hard to make eye contact. I think the more I fight my corner the more he will just agree and let me get on with my life, I just wanted him to meet me half way with this divorce. Why does life have to be so complicated. I’ll keep you posted.
      Don’t leave it so long next time Phoenix I’ve missed you .. your words of wisdom : ) xx

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    2. Oh ug Phoenix, I'm sorry you had to interact with the skank at all. Its so disappointing when people live down to your expectations, meaning, I'm so not surprised she could not respond with courtesy to you. How effed up is it that your ex is making excuses for her bad behavior because she doesn't like living in your shadow? Talk about a crappy bed of her own making. Just wow.
      I'm loving picturing you moving into your lovely new home and making it all yours. A clean canvas to paint with your love and personality, a new home for you and your girls and cleared of any bad old juju. I'm looking forward to that myself some days (even while I sometimes feel myself clinging to this, my own dear ramble of a house and my roses and herbs).
      And I think honestly, feeling bitter sometimes is allowed. Its OK. It comes up. You, we , all have reason to be. But we all remind ourselves and each other that it is not the place we want to live forever.. And per my kind and really awesome therapist, its early days for us here in separation and divorce land. When I talk about feeling like I am still on the roller coaster she reminds me that I am just a few months post the divorce being final and that feeling "normal" or recovered can take 3-5 years. Longer if you are not actively engaged with healing. Gadzooks. That feels like fucking forever when I'm staring down the barrel of 49 and then 50. I know, I know, no rush to be anywhere.
      My challenge is that even with minimal contact, he's in my house twice a week, every week. So no contact is kinda hard.
      Sam A I'm sorry he's doing this to you. Having to interact with them does soften us up. I get so mad too. Those pains in your chest are telling. Give yourself time to rest. everyone deserves a day where nothing is accomplished and no solutions are sought (that's a paraphrase of a Maya Angelou and its been coming up for me thematically quite a lot the last few days/weeks). Slow down. Take a rest. Don't think about it today.
      Life is complicated sometimes and it pissed me off. Like just once can't something be easy goddamit?! Some things are easy...I just need to make sure I notice when they are... Sam A you are such a bright light on here. I'm sorry your H is making this next step so challenging. It's sunny here today so I am sending rays of sunshine to you all Phoenix, Sam A, Gabby, Selkie and the list is so long, just everyone who reads this. Have some light and warmth. I saw crocus and my first red winged blackbird out on the trail today, so that groundhog and his long winter prediction can suck it.

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    3. Ss1,

      Thank you my love, I feel your warmth and light. Thinking of you
      Xx

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    4. Phoenix
      I read your posts with such calmness. That's what you project through your writing. You handle things with such grace - through having to contact skank, to shifting house. I hope your new house provides many happy days for you and your beautiful girls and it's not too stressful, or emotional for you moving.

      Phoenix and others:-
      Phoenix. Just noted you seem to still be in contact/have a good relationship with your ex in laws.

      How did your in laws react to all this that their son has done? Did they contact you, offer their support?
      Mine are a disgusting couple. Never offered any support to me or the kids. Their life is all about what they can get from others. The more I think about how dysfunctional him and his parents are, the more I think thank god I'm away with my sanity in tact.

      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    5. Phoenix, i wondered the same thing as Gabby--how wonderful your A-holes PARENTS are. My H's mom is the only one alive and she has been nothing but dreadful to me. She was passive aggressive before D-day 2--she didnt know about d-day 1. but after tormenting ME after she found out the story and I set a boundary she crossed again and again, I blocked every way she could contact me, she doesn't even ask her son about me, except to ask if I've kicked him out of the house again. Never asks him if he's fucked up (not that it would be her business) but cuts RIGHT to "has Steam wronged YOU again, my darling" UGH. His sister, who I still talk with although now it's very very strained. Never asks how I am, ever. Its baffling to me There are a few other relatives that dance around it, and that's ok, I never told them, but but the MIL has a big friggin mouth. -I actually count my blessings that she doesn't talk to me anymore, because she got downright vicious with me. So it sounds like you are very blessed. I am so sorry you had to deal with the skank, who must be marinating in her own guilt...I cant think of any other reason she can't extend a common courtesy of two words.
      And to SS1 below--holy smokes woman-14 MILES? You should be proud of yourself, my longest run ever was 4.5 miles and i hated every step of it. Good on you!! I can also say that I know my picker is broken, part of the reason that I stay, along with history, familiarity and love is that I have a damn good chance of picking another addict of some sort if I were to become single. I have an AA and a narcissist in my past and a recovering AA/SA under my roof. If i was free--I don't know how much deeper I could go in the man-barrel. At least this one is showing a lot of promise. He's keeping up his end of the bargain, I just have to remember to keep up on mine.

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  20. SS1 Part 1
    I ran 14 miles yesterday. Pretty proud of myself. It was a good long time outside and I got to the point where I wasn't thinking about anything but running and watching the river the trail follows overflow its banks after a big rain.
    I'm feeling low after the weekend. I opened up to the new guy, a little. He asked about why my day was tough. I talked, for the first time about one of the reasons I was divorced and that I had sent myself to a bad place by looking her up. I'm not sure he gets it. Like most people who haven't experienced this. He teased me a little about how that was such a "girl" thing to do, look her up. And then advised me to let it go. He's not wrong, but in hindsight I would have liked some empathy to go with it. A hug. An acknowledgement that it must have sucked. And later when we were going to sleep (which is a bit of a challenge because he snores. I usually bring earplugs on our trips etc.) I had just nodded off and he, half asleep, asks me for a back scratch, which I know is one of the ways he feels cared for. Then later I'm so overtired that I can't fall asleep and I can't find the earplugs and I'm just so freaking sad and feeling very lonely, I just start crying, about everything. And he wakes up and holds my hand while I talk and then holds me while I wind down. And says something along the lines of you can't let it get to you like this. I think I responded along the lines of if it were that easy, believe me I'd love to not feel like this. And eventually I found the ear plugs and went to sleep. Woke before him. And all the next day he was miserable about being tired. And I felt increasingly guilty and bad about sharing at all. And kind of mad about it. Thinking things like this is why I don't open up. Because now I'm wrestling with the whole, when I have feelings or need emotional support, I am too much, BS. I know it is my stuff, but he did not handle it aces either and i'm feeling let down. Normal relationship stuff made complicated by my history and likely his too. Am I with this guy just to avoid being lonely? If so its not working. My needs are not being met. And I struggle with questions like am I too needy? I don't know. I don't have too many healthy models. And if i'm honest, I don't want to give up sailing. No reason to stay, but I have no real reason to go, other than my current mood. Or do I? Fuck if I know.

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  21. SS1 part 2
    meanwhile, I get back from my run and the ex's car is in the drive. He often drops in on the weekend too visit our son. He always asks. I just had not been home to answer (I don't like to carry my phone when I run. Technology time out.) And I can feel tears welling up in my eyes because I am so not ready to see him after Friday and my LinkedIn BS. I go into the house and he is picking up the guitar that I recently saved from the flooding in the basement. I'm trying to be normal. But he notices that I am quiet and asks if everything is OK. I told him that I made the mistake of looking up his coworkers at his new company and saw her there. He actually responded with empathy. he said she no longer works there. apparently this company poached a lot of people form the place he left as a lot of people were bailing. She worked in a different division. And she no longer works there. I challenged him on this. Her profile says otherwise. He looked me in the eye and said she left some time ago for reasons of her own. And he added that they weren't in a relationship then and aren't now. And I told him that he didn't owe me that explanation, but he did anyway. And I definitely had tears. And I thanked him but I also said I was just so tired of hurting and not knowing what the hell I was doing. So just like Elle said, there's th epart about how she got the job herself. But unexpectedly, a story about how she left. Maybe she grew a conscience. Too bad she could not have done that two years ago. I actually hope, for her sake, that she realized that getting away from him was the best choice she could make for herself.
    So like I've said so many times before, I don't need to be in a rush to make up my mind about anything...

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    1. Hey SS1
      You are in bit of a downer at the moment. I can hear it and feel it in your writing. How are we, and you, going to get you out of this? I know we can't do much from here, but let's look at this from across the miles.
      Let's start by seeing what you have achieved. A 14 mile run!! - that is no walk in the park. I know how tiring it is to just keep going, but you have come so far just another few small steps each day SS1.
      You are a compassionate person with human feelings. I don't know if it's a guy thing, as it seems to be said all over the world that guys can't express their feelings. Well WE DO, us women have emotions, have feelings and don't let that go SS1. This is what makes you unique and very special. This is what makes us different, what makes us women. Not everyone can handle the truth, but what you have shared with us here for me has been such a blessing. Isn't honesty what we want in a relationship? It's what our husbands lacked too many times. If new guy can't handle your honesty, why? I just don't want you to get hooked on someone to have them break your heart again...because he can't handle honesty, open discussions.
      What are you looking for in life? I know that feeling too well of not being fought for, not being enough to fight for. I can't talk about another relationship as I'm steering clear for my own reasons....and you know we need to work on our own self worth and take time for ourselves. I can't answer how you feel, or what you want from this relationship with new guy, but he needs to be there for you. Yes you can have a relationship with him and have lots of good times but if you are looking for something more, something deeper, can he offer it to you? Is he like your ex with the lack of understanding of your emotions and needs? This worries ME that I may fall for someone like my ex. so that's partly why I'm steering clear of relationships for the moment, and I need to build up my confidence. You know SS1 you can be lonely with people around, so find the people who make you happy. It must be hard having your daughter away at college, but do you have a group of friends you can have adult social time with, away from relationships?
      Sending you hugs
      Gabby xo

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    2. Gabby you are such a love. Thank you. I feel lifted up just by your words and thoughts. I agree that the unfortunate burden of sexism and gender roles means that boys and men are socialized that feelings are bad or a sign of weakness and they have rare or few models for healthy expression. Or how to express empathy when someone expresses something. I don't think new guy is a bad person. He is actually thoughtful and sweet in so many ways. And he's very honest. All important. But I also want him to reveal himself just a bit, emotionally. I want connection and intimacy. I want someone who isn't afraid to be nuts about me. Apparently, that is a lot to ask for. The good news is that as much as I enjoy this new guy, I'm not going to be heart broken if things don't go long term. I'm willing to try and talk this out with him, but if he doesn't get it or cant step up emotionally, I'm not going to waste time trying to "teach" him, like I would have in my younger days. That's like carrying a bucket of wet cement for someone, when I've got my own bucket to carry. So please don't think I am super attached. There honestly hasn't been enough intimacy emotionally or physically for that. And I know on some level I want more than I am getting. My therapist confirms for me that these are basic needs and not "too much" to expect from a relationship.
      In other news, I have a lovely group of friends that I see regularly. I volunteer with Team RWB which I read about in a Brene Brown book and its mission is to enrich veterans lives through social, physical and community service. We have activities every weekend, big events and we have trivia night ever Wednesday. I'm a regular on trivia night and I have been a regular for a year this week! These are fantastic human beings and I'm grateful for them. I go to art class on Monday nights and have a nice friendship with the young teacher. She's pretty cool. I love classical music and have a friend who is a serious musician, so I get out to her concerts and she will often take me to the orchestra when her husband doesn't want to go, which is pretty often (shame on him). And I have other people in my life too. So. I need to focus on these when I am feeling low about the relationship. I think sometimes being lonely IN a relationship is worse than being lonely on your own. At least there's not this contrast or feeling of what could be there but isn't. I know when I was single I was lonely but also mostly at peace. However, I know that being in this relationship has helped me not fall back into relationship with my ex because despite the ways he seems to be trying to make amends, I don't believe I am getting the full truth from him. I don't know that he knows how to utter a complete truth. And I have learned a ton about what I need in my life. New guy is very affectionate and not just when he's trying to get me to bed, and I was starving for that kind of basic human interaction. So I know this is not something I will go without in future. Lots to think about. And I am physically tired from all my running/training too. So I'm just going to let things continue to unfold and not pressure myself to know or decide anything. Hugs and love... SS1

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    3. This sounds really positive, Still Standing 1. You are flourishing!

      I think our lives are like mosaics - ups, downs, golden moments, loose tiles... and sometimes sharp corners. But on the whole, they are rich and beautiful. It sounds like you are keeping so many aspects of your life in flow right now, and having a great variety of social interactions.

      That is such a gift.

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    4. Selkie you are so right and what a lovely metaphor with the mosaics. I think I've got more than a few loose tiles. While I am moving so many things along, I need to stay mindful of how I talk to myself. When I am tired or in the weeds, or feeling lonely I revert back to old lies that I am not lovable. Either too much or not enough to love. That's bull. My recent wrestling and pain, as I come out the other side, has helped me realize that whether things work out or not with the new guy, I will be OK. And that if they work out then I will enjoy it for what it is right now and stop worrying so much about where it is or isn't going. And if it doesn't work out, I think I will take a rest and just focus more on me and friendships and my kids rather than jumping right back in the dating pool. Maybe I need to finally take that gap year I should have had before college. ;)

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    5. Selkie, PS random thought. You posted some long time ago about how, when your h gets your child and minds her while you are working that he never gets her to bed on time. Then the next day she's a bit of a gorilla. It makes thigns harder for you. You've asked him about it etc. but nothing changes. is this the right scenario? So, does the man own a phone? Could he not put a reminder in his calendar to begin her bedtime at the right time? Perhaps that a suggestion you could gently make to him. Its good for children to have a consistent bedtime routine etc. as you know and maybe this can help him get his head around the idea that he can actually get her to bed on time. Random thought complete. :)

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    6. Brilliant idea. My h loves his phone and would do nearly anything for it!

      Now, I just have to make this suggestion look like the phone's idea/ his idea...

      Seriously though, it could really work. He has a very 'head in the clouds' attitude to time in general and honestly doesn't seem to be aware of the passage of time. This applies to big things (waiting months before starting to deal with issues, suffering financially because unwilling to tackle income/expenditure in a clear way, generally letting things slide..) and small things (forgetting bathwater goes cold if left too long, 'missing' birthdays (despite 364 days' notice! etc)

      The one practical area he currently manages well is cooking- where he uses either the phone or the cooker alarm.

      So, thank you! I will definitely try your idea.

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  22. Hi ladies, hope your all keeping warm and safe in this treacherous weather.. we have snow and wind storms here in the uk. Had a week of work as most schools are closed. It’s been a nice treat to be at home and do very little other than eat, sleep and cuddle with my 4 year old. I’m getting a tad bored now though but the weather looks like it will be here well into next week. H been popping in with supplies of food and to see kids I’m still feeling numb towards no feelings towards him good or bad so I’m guessing that’s a good thing, divorce still on the cards I’m still convinced this guy even realises the consequences of this divorce, I swear he’s a sandwich short of a picnic, anyhow focusing on each day as it comes .. thinking of you all xx

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  23. Sam A, the snow is so fun and a message from the universe that right now is a time for you to curl up and rest. Enjoy being bored. How many times, as adults do we really get so much spare time that we actually feel bored!? ;) I follow a number of photographers in the UK on Instagram and all their pictures have been full of the lovely snow. Go for a snowy walk with your little one and then enjoy a nice mug of hot chocolate!
    Numb I understand. Maybe its a bit of a defense mechanism. And why not? This man has let you down s many times. The numbness is also you just needing a rest, I reckon. Sending you warm hugs and mugs of chocolate!

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  24. Thank you ss1, a walk and some hot chocolate sounds like a plan. Your totally right it’s the first time in years we’ve had weather like this so I’m taking advantage and doing nothing but curl up in front of the tv and chilling.

    Glad your feeling better about things ss1 xx

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  25. SS1 the dating update part one
    I’ve got lots to think about too. Didn’t sleep much last night because my thoughts were spinning. Not in any kind of painful way, like not gut wrenching. Just my brain in overdrive, sorting. (which is unfortunate because I have a long day of driving ahead).
    I asked new guy if he wanted to hang out last night, Thursday being kind of our regular night. It was later in the day and normally I would have heard from him. In addition, my radar has been up all week after revealing some of my story and looking for some emotional support this past weekend. I’ve sensed distance from him all week btw. Texts etc less frequent and more superficial. Granted he’s in a busy new job but still worth noting. He suggested I come over after dinner (he’d normally invite me to dinner, so another warning flag). I get there and he’s obviously tired. I make bids for connection and he’s there but not there and certainly not responding with his normal warmth. I’ll often sit on his lap while we watch TV and we’ll smooch and cuddle. He responded with only short pecks, no smooches. So finally, I slide off his lap and ask, “New Guy, what is going on? Do I not excite you? Please talk to me.” Because for some several weeks (three months about) we’ve not been physical and I feel he’s been keeping me at arm’s length.
    And so he starts to talk and he admits he’s wanted to but its so incredibly difficult. He almost chickened out even, which is sort of concerning. The bottom line is that what I shared with him and the fact that I looked up the OW really spooked him, but he can’t articulate what it was that spooked him. Just that he’s been in relationships before and everyone has baggage but some baggage scares him more than others. And he just needs time to think through what he’s feeling. I talked about and tried to explain how painful infidelity is and how normal, in that context, my behavior was and how rare of an occurrence it was. But then I also let him know I was feeling really let down about that weekend too. That when you are in a relationship, its not unreasonable to look for empathy and support and I didn’t get that. And then I felt guilty and sad the next day because he was so clearly suffering as a result of lack of sleep. How I felt like I had been open and vulnerable, and this is a thing that can bring us closer and instead I felt rejected. We talked through other things, some of it BS about how men and women are different, which we are and we aren’t. I know plenty of men who are both emotional and dramatic. Then he said there are some things that are better not sharing and that most guys would just not want to know. This was really alarming to me. And I challenged him on it. I said, one, that’s certainly not all guys and two, as a person I want to be able to reveal all parts of myself and my story, even the ugly stuff and still be valued. I don’t want to have to edit my story to keep things light and happy. Everyone has their shit and you should be able to count on people who care about you to make space for it not expect you to hide it. And finally, I said, this feels really shitty. I feel like I am being penalized for something that happened in my life that I had no control over. And I think its especially unfair given how mental some people who have been through what I have been through can get. I’m not jealous. I don’t have an issue with him having female friends and I am not constantly looking over his shoulder or asking him questions about where he’s been or who he’s with. He granted that I was low key about all that stuff even to other people he’s dated etc who haven’t been through infidelity.

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  26. SS1 the dating update part 2
    The positives are that we talked through this rationally, respectfully and calmly, even though it was difficult and uncomfortable. He said he needed time to think and I asked if that meant space, not dating, what? Again calmly, I like knowing where I am. He’s not sure. He just wants time to think. The other positive is that I have taken so many lessons from therapy and from here and applied it to this situation. I realized that not only does he need to take time to think about the future of the relationship, I do to.
    I can’t make him feel about me or behave in ways or control him in any way. Even though I am hurt and disappointed in his reaction to my revealing myself, his feelings an response are his and about him. I’ve been feeling lonely in this relationship for weeks. He’s been keeping me at arm’s length physically and emotionally. It was an abrupt and sudden change. I told him that my experience of this is that he lost interest some time ago, but this recent thing, where I needed emotional support, is an excuse to finally do something about it. He said that is not the case, so I’ll take him at his word. Even so, I am not getting my physical and emotional needs met and now on top of this I’m hearing he wants to know less about me rather than more. This sounds like a genuine fear of intimacy to me.
    We talked about how we are both guarded. He admitted that part of the reason he is spooked by my “baggage” is that he was hurt in a post divorce relationship, so now he wants to take his time before he gets too close. This is both legitimate and hugely ironic. Because he’s using his own relationship baggage as his reason for being afraid of my relationship baggage.
    The place I’ve gotten to is that I’m Ok with letting him have time to figure this out for himself, whether that means we continue the relationship or not. And I’m really going to be fine, if its not. I, at the same time, want to think about whether it’s good for me or worth the effort to continue the relationship or not, regardless of him. i.e. even if he wants to continue dating, I may decide its not right for me. If we both decide to continue forward, we are going to need to have some kind of come to Jesus talk about how we communicate feelings, how we support each other and how we feel connected, because I ma not going to continue in a relationship where I feel uncared for and lonely.
    I am right now, trying to keep an eye on the hurt and rejection I feel (which is some but not massive) relative to any potential relief or peace I might feel at being out of a relationship that is not serving me. Little things do hurt. That he made plans to go away without me. I understand that he needs space right now, but it is such an obvious omission after he’s planned so much or all of his other weekends to include me. And as I have learned here, I am going to just back off. I am not going to pursue. I think a lot of this falls under the category of "he's showing me who he is and what I can expect emotionally, out of him in the future." And we will both come to our own conclusions. And I’ll be fine. I just needed to write this out. Thanks for listening.

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    1. Wow SS1, You sound so...sane. So unlike 27-year-old me. ;)
      I think you're absolutely right. He's showing you who he is and what this relationship will look like. Take your time considering it while he takes his time. And I'm glad you recognize the hurt/rejection you feel is normal and likely has less to do with him personally than with our egos.
      He's missing out on the opportunity to connect on a deeper level with an amazing woman. And he's doing it out of fear.

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    2. Thanks Elle, as sad as I am, and as uncomfortable as I am , I know I don't need to run to do anything about it right this second other than think and also be open to what he comes up with. I feel saner than a 27 year old me too.
      I think what is bothering me and had me up thinking is the unfairness of it. Like I'm being open and honest and vulnerable. And I shared something that happened in my life that was painful and now he's going to hold THAT against me? It feels like an excuse for him to run rather than deal with being uncomfortable or risk getting hurt himself. And this issue so clearly pre-dates it coming to a head this past weekend. Oh well.
      I think, if he decides he wants to continue, I'm going to have to ask him some questions. Like "what are you going to do differently?" because this fear of intimacy thing is not self correcting. 'Are you willing to talk through when you get spooked?" "Are you willing to make an effort to connect and what does that look like?" "I need to feel safe asking for what I need emotionally or being vulnerable. How can we make that work for us both?" Like maybe I say "hey I'm having a tough day. I'd like to talk about it but all I need is a hug and empathy. I don't need you to fix it." But if he is not willing to do something different or work with his fear even a little bit, I think I know my answer. I don't need to be in a relationship all alone. I guess, if I'm honest with myself, unless he comes up large after thinking, I might just need to end it. That's going to be really hard for me. I've been lonely for two months however. Just talking out loud here in the comments so I don't have to have all this rolling around in my head. Thanks again Elle.

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  27. This is so unrelated ladies, but does anyone else have problems with their kids on the x box .. my 14 year old as only recently got hooked but he is well and truly addicted ..today I’ve had to take the plug out twice to get him of it .. he’s had 3 snow days of school so that doesn’t help but I just wish he could control himself and realise when enough is enough.. today I’ve been thinking how much easier it will be if/when he leaves to go to university. I just feel that I’m just a taxi and someone who feeeds and clothes him I guess it’s them growing up .. got a few more years of this haven’t I ladies???

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    1. Sam A,
      Been there. And just when we got that problem sorted out, he's become obsessed with his iPhone. We've had to implement strict rules around usage or he'd be on devices 24/7. With Xbox, we insisted that he couldn't use it during the week but could use it as much as he wanted on weekends. This had the benefit of ensuring that he was getting sleep/homework, etc. during the week. But giving him free rein on the weekends also led to him policing himself because he would get headaches from doing it too much. He also began to miss doing other things. So it worked out well. And then, with time, he lost interest. But then, along came the iPhone a few years later and we're back where we started. Only this week, we've implemented the rule that he has to put his phone on the charger as soon he gets home. Then he gets 10 minutes before bed to check messages/social media, then it's lights out. On the weekend, again, he can do whatever he wants.
      So...figure out what will work for you. But then make it stick (just like setting boundaries with wayward husbands!!). It's your house and your rules. You're looking out for him, not trying to stop him from having fun. Determine what the consequences are for violating the rules. Ensure that he understands that the rules are for the benefit of everyone (we noticed that our son became really grumpy/anti-social when he was on too much). And help him learn to manage his own use of it.
      I know it feels horrible but it gets better. The key is not backing down, not making it about anger but about your job to keep him emotionally/physically healthy, and following through with consequences when he violates the rules.
      My son is now 17 and though he plays Xbox now and again, it's NOTHING like it was. This too shall pass.

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  28. Thanks Elle that really helps to hear I’m not on my own. It has started to make me feel really stressed as all I do is shout at him. Your right I need to set some firm boundaries and stick to them. If it’s not his dad sneaking around behind my back it’s my son it’s really frustrating. I’ve tried to speak to his friends mum about it but they don’t seem to worry about the amount of time spent whereas I can see a change in his mood and behaviour we rarely have a conversation these days. Honestly with this to contend with who needs a h I would have no time or energy for anyone else at least for the next 18 years .. thank you Elle : ) xxx

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    1. I found the hardest part was standing firm and not negotiating with him. And I swear they know when we've made up our minds and when we're being wishy-washy. Think it through -- what works for you in terms of his Xbox use -- and then communicate that to him in terms of "Here's what's acceptable in this house..." And then...nothing further. Be prepared for counter-moves: whining, sulking, anger, etc. All designed to get you to back down. DO. NOT. ENGAGE. Post the rules, if necessary and point to them any time he tries to talk you out of them.
      It works. Really.

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  29. Hey, friends, it’s about 1:30 on Saturday morning, and I’m sleeping in my new house for the first time - on the couch, because we haven’t moved all the furniture yet. It’s been a week of 18-hour days, working all day and moving all evening. But it’s really coming together.
    I’m exhausted from the day’s work and from my celebratory styrofoam cup of wine, so I’ll come back and say more tomorrow - always so much I want to say! But tonight, I’ll just quickly address what Steam and Gabby asked - my in-laws.
    My FIL is a big, lovable, gun-toting, teddy-bear of a redneck. Apparently he was once a hell raiser, but I’ve never met a man with such a selfless spirit. If somebody he loved asked him to saw off his own arm, I swear he would ask for a chainsaw. He has treated me with tenderness and love ever since we met.
    My MIL, well.. she is very strong-willed. She and I used to clash a lot. But we always made up. She has dehabilitating chronic health issues, and her heavy medications took their toll on her mental health for a while. She became extremely volatile, and her husband, her caretaker, took the brunt. My ex came to almost hate her. I think there is something deeper there. For months he wouldn’t speak to her. So I stepped into the breach, because Family. I kept up the contact, until they mended things a bit. And when she was hospitalized for weeks, his visits were occasional. Mine were 3-4 times a week. She noticed. She’s better for now, and she says I’m as much her daughter as he is her son. She is stubborn and emotional, but the Lady is loyal. And very loving.
    When we first announced the divorce, I think it broke my FIL’s heart, but he never said a word. He doesn’t talk much. He just kept loving everybody. MIL had plenty to say, and lots of questions - the first thing she asked was: “What did he do?” I wouldn’t tell her, but she eventually figured it out, I think. Sometimes she apologizes for him, and talks about how she prays we will reconcile. When I think about the grandchild she still knows nothing about, it purely pisses me off.
    So - there it is. I tried to be a good daughter, but mostly I’m just lucky - they are loyal, loving people. I’m sorry that some of you have had to deal with ugliness and vindictiveness. It is so wrong and unfair.
    I’ll be back tomorrow - or rather later today. Time to sleep.

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    1. Phoenix,
      They sound as though they deserve you in their lives! ;)

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  30. I love you Elle, where would I be without you, I dread to think : ) .. xx thank you greatly xx

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    1. Awww...you brought tears to my eyes. As if infidelity isn't hard enough, right? We're expected to parent, and friend, and work, and do all this other stuff too!

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  31. Ok, it’s Saturday morning, and I’m having a relaxing morning before a (hopefully) useful day. Time to catch up on my friends!
    Steam, I think one thing we all have in common is our defective “pickers”! And the fact that we all value love and commitment enough to give many, many chances to our guys. For most of us, we’ve reached a point where, for our own well-being, we had to draw a line. If your man is actually trying, God knows we are all rooting for you.
    Gabby and Elle, I love what each of you said to SS.
    Selkie, I love the simile of the mosaic. It evokes a powerful and beautiful image in my mind. I’ma steal that one and run with it!
    Sam, stay safe and warm in that weather! The numb thing is good, gives us a break from all those hellacious emotions. I don’t have a son or an x-box, but I have 2 daughters with iPhones (the 14-year-old is particularly addicted), and I feel your pain. I’m working on setting boundaries. Thinking of investing in one of those devices or apps that limits screen time.
    I once saw a book on raising teenagers that was subtitled: “The Fine Art of Hugging a Cactus,” or something to that effect. It’s an excellent description!
    Continuing...

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    1. Speaking of books, the BEST book I've read about teens/boundaries/biting our tongues is "Mom and Dad get out of my life but first can you drive me and Cheryl to the mall" or something like that. Author's last name was Wolfe. It's hilarious but does a great job of reminding us to let them roll their eyes, and pull all their countermoves but that ultimately they NEED (and want, though they'd never admit it) boundaries and it's up to us to just stay calm (as much as possible) and provide them.

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  32. SS, that cans it. 14 miles? You are officially Wonder Woman. I know this situation with New Guy is hurtful, even though you are doing an amazing job of putting it into perspective. I think you are on the right track, with your openness and your communication. We are certainly not 27, and we have learned to think things through and take our time, haven’t we? We’ve also acquired the confidence and courage to state our expectations calmly and honestly. I guess we’ll see what NG does with that. Que sera, sera, and you will be fine no matter what. It may sound egotistical, but the older I get, the more I realize that the person I like best in the world is me. This is quite an accomplishment, as I spent years dealing with low self-esteem and even self-hatred. But at this point, I realize the old girl really isn’t so bad. In fact, in some ways I’m kinda awesome. I know you have been blossoming in many ways, and I think you are coming to this realization too. And your life and your activities sound like so much fun, so fulfilling.

    So...here’s a question for anyone who dates...when do you feel comfortable becoming fully intimate? I’m struggling with that at the moment.

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  33. Phoenix it must feel lovely to have done all that hard work of moving to be spending your first night in your new home : ) . Xx

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  34. Hi Phoenix

    I hope you can have a relax this weekend with all that moving.

    Glad you have supportive In Laws. Shame my hypocritical in laws couldn't take a leaf out of you in laws book. But, at least I know where my STBX gets his problems. Very dysfunctional they are - so glad to be rid of all their shit.

    I'm not dating, but I'll throw my 2c worth in anyway - so my thoughts are from a not trusting place, but with your safety and emotional security a priority in mind for you dear Phoenix.

    You do not have to do anything you do not want to. Please know your worth and never succumb to male lust. I personally think people make such a big deal about being intimate and sex in a relationship without knowing each other first. It all happens too quick.
    Phoenix. Listen to your gut. If you're struggling with it now, to me that's saying "I'm not ready".
    I'm sure I will differ from others, but this is just how I feel.

    Many hugs
    Gabby xo

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  35. So it’s 7.26 am and I’m sat here thinking about all the things my h couldn’t do? It goes way back to the beginning of our marriage the tell tale signs were there. 16 years ago we married not long after that he started selling drugs I begged him to stop but he didn’t/couldn’t wouldn’t I thought if I was to get pregnant he would stop he didn’t so I left and moved back into my mums when I was 5 months pregnant with my eldest. From there I moved into my own place he would come and see me and my eldest but knew I would not have him living with me whilst he was selling drugs. When my eldest was 1 I got pregnant again through no fault of my own I was on contraception I was mortified as I didn’t feel I could bring 2 children up in this mess I had a feeling my h would soon be caught and sent to prison as everyone gets caught at some point right??? I thought about termination long and hard this was my decision to make I would be the one looking after another newborn. So the day before the termination I met him in a cafe and gave him a choice he either gives up selling the drugs we move in as a family and I keep the baby or I go ahead with the termination, he said nothing, nothing meant he couldn’t clearly so I walked away and terminated the pregnancy, please don’t think this was an easy decision it wasn’t anyone who’s been through a termination will understand that it’s a heartbreaking decision to make but I knew it was the right one for me in the circumstances. I was very angry with my h after that so much so I took the decision to ring the police and tell them what he was up to I.e selling drugs it was like a huge relief to do so but then I realised I’m gonna have to tell my h that I had done so as this will surely make him stop. It didn’t and a few months later my h was caught and sent to prison for 4 years. My son was 2 at the time. My first prison visit was one of the worst experiences of my life, as we were leaving my son screamed for his father I had to peel him of his dad I was crying too it broke my heart. My son had this bond with his father and throughout the sentence of which he did 2 years I would visit him weekly so my son kept that link with his father. I would keep memories alive back home with pictures of his father dotted around the house. At what seemed like a terrible time turned out to be the making of me having that time apart really gave me an incentive to make something of my life, I moved house, I applied to do a criminal justice degree so I was visiting murderers, rapists and all the criminals in prison whilst my h was also in prison which was kind of surreal I would be visiting a prisoner as a professional and seeing the women and children having to travel long distances just to see their partners it broke my heart, these men made stupid decisions and the women and children suffered the consequences. There’s a pattern here ladies quite similar to betrayal . However going back to my initial question of why I could never stop him doing what he wanted to do and how much he has wronged me over the years, this is the same for the betrayal he just couldn’t stop himself he was thinking of no one bit himself and to this day that behaviour hasn’t changed maybe it never will. So when I process all of the above I know I’m making the right decision about divorcing him, these behaviour he present are entrenched, this was just a snippet of my life with this man but something I wanted to write down for you to read.. I swear I will write a book one day : )

    Feel better for writing it down .. morning lovely ladies and thank you xx

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    1. Sam A I am loving you so much right now. No second thoughts or guesses. So many hard decisions, so much this broken boy/man has put you through. Move on away and up. Shake the dust of his bullshit off your feet. You are free my girl. Don't look back.
      I wish I could give you a giant hug because I am so proud of you.

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    2. Sam A
      I ditto SS1.
      Sending heaps of love and hugs.
      Gabby xo

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  36. Ss1 comments on Dating and sex part 1
    Ha! Thanks Phoenix. Not quite Wonder Woman. I hurt my back lifting my dogs' 50lb bag of food yesterday so definitely feeling 48 today. ;)
    So on the dating and sex thing. You won't be surprised I have lots of thoughts on this.
    I had to take some of the advice I gave my daughter just a little while ago and reapply it to myself.
    1. Its your body. You can decide, when, if, how and with whom you would like to have sex. No church, government, family, peers, or other random onlookers get to have a say in what is OK or not OK for you about sex.
    2. Have sex with someone you trust. Someone with whom you feel comfortable having that awkward conversation that includes any STD history, are you currently sleeping with other people and we will be using condoms every time. If you are not comfortable having that conversation with a person, don't have sex with them.
    3. You don't owe sex to anyone. Not because they are going to have their feelings hurt if you say no, not because they bought you dinner or drinks. Not because you had sex with them before.
    4. treat your body with respect and sleep with people who do the same.
    5. Listen to your gut. If you feel resistance to sleeping with someone honor that. It may be that you are just not ready. Or it may be that your brain, which is really powerful at picking up on things, has noticed something that has not filtered up into your conscious awareness yet. There's no need to rush.
    6. If you want to have sex and are ready for sex and the person you are with is ready for sex and you both agrees its time for sex, have sex. Enjoy yourself.
    7. This whole timing and when is it OK to have sex and when is it too soon to have sex is all about society's judgement of women's purity and value (which is stupid. I've had two babies already. That ship sailed a looong time ago) and about controlling our sexuality (which is apparently the most powerful and terrifying force in the universe). If you are ready to have sex with someone right away and they are too, then go for it. If you need to take your time, the right person will be willing to wait for you to be ready.

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  37. ss1 comments on sex and dating part 2
    I think the question of when to become fully intimate is all about the individual, their values and the degree to which they are comfortable with their own sexuality. Monkeys like us need physical contact in the form of everyday affection and in the form of sexual intimacy. It's how we bond. It's really good for your health and self esteem when approached in the right way. But because it requires so much vulnerability there is a great deal of opportunity for harm too. So while I am 100% sex positive and think people should be free to pursue what makes them happy behind the bedroom door, I also know that I don't have to participate in any activities that don't do it for me or make me feel unsafe. I also know that I am not wired for dealing with the emotional aftermath of hook ups. Some people are. I'm just not one of them.
    New Guy and I had sex just a little over a week after meeting in person. We'd been talking on Match and texting a good while before that. Thing was, I felt really comfortable with him in addition to being very physically attracted to him. I also had had the conversation with him about my STD and how condoms every time were a must and it had gone very well. And. I was really really "thirsty" after almost two years without any sex other than with myself. So I went for it. And I'm glad I did. I was able to discover that, when I feel emotionally and physically safe, there is nothing wrong with my libido. That the sexual dysfunction in my marriage being all my fault was yet another aspect of decades long blame shifting and gas lighting. And it was really, really nice to reclaim my sexuality, to feel desire and to have it responded to mutually. He's also great in bed and has fantastic equipment. Double bonus. ;)
    On the other had, while on Match I had had plenty of other opportunities to get laid. I just didn't feel ready or safe with these guys. Many of them felt desperate and needy. Not safe for sex. Oh the stories I could tell. At some point they are going on my blog, hopefully soon before i forget some of the funnier and sadder bits.So Phoenix, my sweet friend, if you'd like to enjoy some sex with a guy you like, check your gut. If you feel resistance get curious about why that is. Fear of getting hurt? Fear of some external judgement about being a ho? Or not feeling entirely safe with the guy? Thing is, early on, you won't feel completely, entirely safe. But if you think you'd like to and you can have that grown up conversation at some point before you get to the falling into bed point, then I'd say go for it and just enjoy it. Don't worry about what it means blah blah blah. Whatever you decide, trust yourself. Smooches and hugs, SS1

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  38. Lol thank you ss1 feels good to know you have my back . : ) xx

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  39. my main concern through this divorce process is coming out the side in tact, not just for me and the kids but h too. Last few weeks have been tough on us both mentally and physically he’s tried to deal with things the best way he knows how and we’re both tired and ready for a rest from it all. I don’t see it as giving up or not being worth the fight I look at it as the beginning to the end and the end is nigh. Whatever he’s done in the past he’s done this is about now and as long as he provides for his kids and financially sees us well I know I could remain decent and On friendly terms. I hope I’ve learnt to do this from seeing my own parents be civil to each other. I mean even though my parents had been divorced a good 25 years my mum still held my dads hand on his death bed and that was a moment me and my siblings will treasure it made me whole again for that second. She never had a bad word to say about my dad and I respected her so much for that more so now I’m an adult and understand how hard that must have been given he was violent and controlling for much of the marriage. Bless my parents have both passed away now and I’d love to see them again, I hope they are up in heaven together looking down on us : ) .. love you all I’m very emotional and grateful right now .. xxx

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  40. Ladies who have divorced, why do men drag their tales with this? It’s hard enough without the emotional stuff they put on you. My h trying to make me back down from the divorce, I understand he’s scared so am I there isn’t an easy way round divorce it’s bloody hard. H showing ambivalence saying he will never find anyone like me, yep that’s true you silly man I’ve been telling him that for years and that he just wants me to forgive him blah blah, I just hope this divorce comes sooner rather than later because they is getting tough and I’m not sure how much more strength I have to get through this.

    On a lighter and brighter note I have an interview next week for a job I applied for working with women and children in the domestic violence field, really excited and anxious about that it’s part time and will help me find my masters which I start in September. I have also registered yesterday to take up short term foster care, more of a respite for children which would be two weekends a month thought it would be a great idea for me and my kids and I want to give a child going through trauma a break, I have lots of love to give and I adore children they are innocent and deserve the best chance in life. The only problem I have is convincing my 14 yr old he’s not on board just yet, quite rightly he has reservations which I understand but I’ll try talking him round. A social worker will visit to talk to me and the kids about the shared care. Again it’s exciting but a huge responsibility which I’m well aware of.its something I’ve always wanted to do but didn’t because of my h criminal record but now we’re separated and divorcing there isn’t an issue. Feels good to do things that I’m interested in for no other reason than I can : ) no one to consider but me and kids. I’ll keep you posted lots of love xx

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    1. Hi Sam A,
      I like the sound of this new energy. I hope the Spring will bring you (and all of us) even more! However, I would also suggest... take your time before starting out as a foster mother. You and your children have a lot to deal with at this time too. I can feel your enthusiasm and warm heartedness from here - but allow yourself a rest too. Don't burn out too quickly!

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    2. Sam A I hope the job interview went well. Doing work that is meaningful can be such a life changing thing. And so amazing that you be working to help women and children.
      My two cents on the fostering. Its a wonderful drive to want to help people and children in need. Even though you are choosing this divorce, it is going to be hard, emotionally and even physically demanding, for you and the kids. Introducing a troubled or traumatized child may be more complex than you realize. And your son may not need convincing. Please take a deep breath and listen to what he is telling you about his wants and needs in this context. I'm not saying give in to his wishes just because he has them, but do please give them and his concerns serious consideration. Adding a new family member, even temporarily, affects everyone in the family and so should be a family decision. I once talked to my kids about my wish to adopt a child once they were older. My daughter responded and said, "mom please don't. I would never feel like I was enough for you after that, if you did." This is just my own experience and opinion. I'd urge you to give yourself time and to recognize that this job you are looking at will already be plenty of help to those you want to help. Don't forget to keep some in reserve for you and your kids. Hugs and love, SS1

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    3. Thanks ss1 I really appreciate your ‘two cents’. It’s great to hear from your perspective. I can get carried away with the moment, this foster placement will not go ahead if my eldest is not happy with it, the social worker has made that clear. My thinking was that it would be great for me and the kids to open our home to someone who needs some routine, boundaries and love. My youngest can’t wsit to have a ‘buddy’ to play with and share his toys. I wanted to give it a go and see how it went there is no long term contract and if it didn’t work for me and the kids I would stop it immediately. I just think that if we sat and analysed every thing that was tough in life we wouldn’t do anything.

      My interview is today so I’ll let you know how I go on. Lots of positive changes are happening and it feels right, I believe that whatever is meant to be for me will be. The only people I need to consider from now on are my children. I don’t have another adult to worry and stress over which gives me all the energy i need. There is a lot going on for me at the moment i. E divorce, potentially new job, starting masters in September and possibly short term fostering but none of it other than the divorce feels overwhelming and that’s because he’s continuing to harass me wanting me to change my mind. I have filed a report with the police because it was starting to feel very intense the phone calls and texts daily was stressing me out. He’s desperate right now and doesn’t know what to do to make me change my mind, I’ve yold him there is nothing he can do or say to change my mind. The only thing I ask of him is to concentrate on being a father and if he fails at that then that’s his downfall.. I’ll keep you posted ladies .. thanks again ss1 for your sound advice xxx

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  41. I told me H and MC that I want to move forward with separation. Even with the amount of personal work that my H had done, he underlying self centeredness and self pity remains. Things got worse after he self weaned from Lexapro. The lack of empathy, gaslighting and passive aggressive behavior just reared its head once more. I realized that he really needs a full psychological assessement for bipolar, ADHD, depression, covert narcisism (I spend alot of time on google).... I know that this is as a result of having a narcissist/alcoholic father and a codependent/alcoholic mother. His ACES score is an 8 (https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/ace-questionnaire). But I am tired of being scapegoated. He has to deal with his stuff and not hide under being an "Addict"--which he is kind of too, but that somehow is allowing him to avoid looking at all the other stuff. Anyway, I am tired of explaining to him and our MC why I am angry and not able to fully reconcile after over 4 years. Our MC completely understands why I am pissed off and even told my husband a bunch of times that he should consider my points. But my H is too filled with shame to properly deal with things and told the MC that he doesn't want to be "labelled" as the bad guy. Anyway, the good news is that our MC said that even though I am the one who is asking for the separation, my H is the one who should move out. There was no argument. The bad news is that we will have to stop therapy to afford 2 separate residences. I am not pushing for divorce yet. I want to give it 3 more months of counseling and separation. But I don't think he will change. He often makes big gestures and pronouncements of change but slides back into self pity and victimhood.

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    1. MBS it really sounds like you have thought this through and no one can say you haven't given him an ample amount of time to change. Four years is a long time of struggle. I think the separation may give you room to breathe and for the two of you to separate from old patterns of behavior. One of the big goals personally, during separation was to really work on my own issues and co-dependent behaviors and dig into my adult child of an alcoholic stuff. And I did. And I still am. And I am a better person for it. Life is still a struggle sometimes, but I'm pretty convinced that this is just called "being human." My thoughts and wishes for you are that you get what you need, peace, clarity, healing during this separation to figure out what the next right step for you is. hugs and love, SS1

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  42. Selkieyour right, thank you for being honest, sometimes I need it : ) I’m always full steam ahead. so much going on at the moment Think I just need to concentrate on one thing at once. There was an incident on mother’s day a pretty serious one which has set me back a little .. I’ll explain more in another post when I’m ready.. let’s just put it this way if I had any doubt about divorce before the incident def has reinforced exactly why I’m doing it and another sign from god to push me forward.. I’m so blessed I keep getting these signs xx

    Thank you selkie.. xxx

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    1. Oh Sam A, I hope you had some positive aspects to your mother's day too. This rollercoaster we are all on is just relentless. Thinking of you.

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  43. So let me tell you about mother’s day, this was my first mother’s day without my mum the day was going ok till I get a knock on the door. A woman asking was I still married and was my h living here!!!!!! You can imagine my response my legs turned to jelly and I saw red. This woman had come to my door where my children were asking me about my h although stbx. She claimed to be his girlfriends cousin. At this point I asked her to get the fuck away from my door, she didn’t seem to want to leave and was getting up close to my face, luckily my sister was with me so she took over it was getting heated and this woman would not back of so it was inevitable that this wasn’t going to end well. This woman entered my home with force and abs that point my sister got her to the floor and flung her out onto the pavement ( thank god my sis was there because I’d have prob done a lot worse). Once she was out of my house we called the police, called the dick head h who was playing dumb. I mean random women just knock on doors asking about people’s h don’t they????.. this was exactly what I needed, it was the nail in the coffin it was confirmation he was seeing her all along and prob tried to call it off the last week when he realised he needed to try fight for me as the divorce is imminent and she’s got pissed and turned up at my door. The sad thing is the police had no idea who this girl was and neither did I, she was clearly a friend of the ow. It was a tough few days following this couldn’t sleep I was worried she would come back however this was my house my safe place my kids home and no one was going to make me feel scared. I’ve since changed my locks as h had a key, I’ve filed a report with the police as h been constantly ringing harassing asking to stop the divorce blah blah not interested mate not now not ever I’ve lost everything I had for this man. He crossed that line one too many times and if he had any respect for me now he would sign the divorce papers but instead he’s contesting it which will ultimately stall it but he can do his worst because whether it’s today tomorrow or next month it will go ahead. Honestly I’m sick of getting in the middle of his bullshit and drama, I cannot wait to not have anything to do with him other than arranging access for him to see the kids.

    I’m ok though ladies, other than being a little tired I’ve carried on with work, sorting kids and routine I refuse to let his bs take me down.

    I didn’t get that job unfortunately but got extremely good feedback. What a week but I’m still here and smiling : ) xx

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    1. Wow Sam A, That is crazy. Glad you took steps to keep yourself safe, emotionally and physically. Seriously, what is wrong with people??
      And I'm sorry you didn't get the job but it sounds as though you're handling it all with incredible grit and grace. And that's awesome! You're one hell of a force, Sam A.

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    2. How dare she turn up at your door?! What was she hoping to achieve? Glad to hear you and your sister sorted her out. That must have been so weird to deal with.
      Well done on changing the locks too.

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  44. So we are discussing how to make a trial separation work given that we are both non-profit employees who live in one of the most expensive cities in America. This is scary and I keep wishing it could be different. I do love my husband and wish we could build a life together, but I think that he uses me as a crutch and won't likely overcome his emotional blocks if don't send him out on his own The best case scenario is that we do a 3 month separation and he recognizes that I am not the ogre he thinks I am and he deals with his baggage from childhood more effectively. Though this is not likely, as my therapist reminds me. I atleast hope that we can have a smooth and respectful ending to our current relationship and a set of ground rules for moving forward. My fear is that the passive-aggressive behavior that he learned from his NPD father will continue to emerge in times of emotional challenge. If he doesn't atleast get a better awareness around it, things are going to be really hard. For me, it is hard to accept that he really has this dark and difficult side. I want to believe that he has a good heart and good intentions, which he does most of the time. But it is like a split personality and if he feels attacked or confronted, he gets nasty, highly reactive and obstructionist. That is the part I am afraid of.

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    1. MBS, I really struggle with accepting that other people don't operate from the same moral framework that I do. It keeps me off balance. I get easily blindsided. But, I'm learning. So my advice to you is to keep your eyes as wide open as you can. You know this guy. You know what he's capable of...so expect his worse. If you don't get it, then that's a bonus.

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  45. Missed you Elle, your words mean so much to me. Your kind of like a big sister I have three so you can be my 4th., : ) your responses are always like a huge hug, warm and tight xxx

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    1. Was away for ten days on holiday. Was all I could do post the comments on my teensy little phone. Glad to be back, too!! And I always wanted a little sister. Yay! Welcome to the family. ;)

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  46. I'm really ok, but I've been a little sad lately. As much as I am glad the a hole has gone, I've been seeing my friends who are "happily married" post pictures with hubby and kids - The family life.
    After coming from a home of divorced parents, I wanted so much to have the family life I lacked and my children to grow up with both parents.
    None of us wanted to have our husbands do this. I never got married and had babies to think or want to be doing this on my own.
    It doesn't help with STBX being emotionally manipulative to the kids: saying one thing one minute then getting shitty and carrying on the next and saying something else. I really don't think he's in a very good place with his mind, as much as he will deny this, as he can only ever look good to everyone. Yeah I know, not my problem anymore, but when it effects the kids, it is in a round a bout way still my problem.
    Can't he just go for good. I'll happily nominate him to go on the mission to Mars.
    His new whore is well and truly on the scene which is not sitting well with the kids (or me) as he clearly shows he prioritizes her over his own children!!!

    Hugs
    Gabby xo

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    1. Gabby,
      I think it's perfectly normal to feel sad right now. You're still getting used to this new reality, which you never wanted for you or your kids. So let yourself feel sad. But know that, ultimately, your happiness is so much more likely without this guy. And that your kids will thrive because they've got you as their mom. Be sure to validate their experience of their dad, without bad mouthing him. They will see him clearly as he is, as long as you let them share their experience of him knowing that you won't bash him (not that I think you do this, I'm speaking generally here).
      But, in the meantime, mourn the loss of what you thought you were creating. And then, when the time is right, celebrate the new life you're creating without his bullshit.

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  47. I'm sat here in my hotel the night before my half marathon. Ive got pretty race jitters, so I know this is partially to blame. But I'm feeling a little blue .Sad that I'll be doing this race and no family to be there at the finish. No one to hang out with tonight .I would have liked to have had someone here with me. I'm rather far outside of my comfort zone. That's ok .good actually. But I'm a bit uncomfortable and lonely .I don't know why I am waiting so much of my time thinking about boys who don't care about me enough. Old habits. So I'm going to get up .do my run .I'll see lots of my friends from my volunteer squad .then I'll go home knowing I accomplished something. I don't know how people afford to do multiple events a year!! Wow. So I'm sitting here playing a teeny tiny sad violin to myself. And wishing that the people I cared about felt the same about me (that's my scared little girl stuff). So I'm writing this out here with my friends who understand .

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    1. SS1, We're there with you!! In spirit if not in person. I think it's so great. And I hope you have that runner's high where you feel as though you can accomplish anything. And yes, I ran a marathon when I was 30 and my friends were kinda 'meh' about the whole thing. Wasn't until a decade later when a few of them decided to run one that they told me they really had NO idea what a big deal it was and how much of your life the training takes over. So, I guess it's like anything. We often don't understand until we've gone through it ourselves. Or, in other words, people sometimes suck.

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  48. Ss1 that feeling when you reach the finish line will banish any feelings of self doubt or sadness. I don’t like being away from home on my own so I can understand why you feel uncomfortable and lonely if you don’t do it often. I’ve only been away one night on my own in the last 8 years and I didn’t sleep the whole night, missed my kids so much but I did it and was glad I did. Was nice to be back home the following day. So I guess you’ll be home and dry the next time we talk , let us know how it went.. rooting for you my lovely, your such an inspiration to many hear.. big big big hugs xxx

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  49. Thanks Elle and Sam A. It was so nice to see your posts after the race. I did pretty well. Probably could have started in the a slightly faster pace group, but I was being conservative, as it was my first event. I was so glad to have my volunteer friends there at the start and finish. It was soo cold and I'm dressed for running not standing still. SO I was freezing. Two of my friends are seasoned marathon runners, so one have hand warmers to lend me (I needed them the whole run) and one lent me her coat until it was time to go to the start. It was great to cross the finish line and again have my friends and teammates cheering. Really a well run event which makes it a positive.
    And Sam A you are right. I was out of my comfort zone because I was alone. I have traveled for work and eaten plenty of meals alone out. Those things don't bother me. But in this case I had pre race nerves and things to manage on my own without another human to back me up. Even at home, I've got a dog almost constantly with me. And part of me felt some pangs over not having anyone to share this event, which was kind of a big deal for me, with someone close. I'm not gonna lie, I did look at the finish for my son and my ex, hoping maybe they made the trip down to surprise me. But I also knew it was highly, highly unlikely.
    I'm relieved to be on a looser exercise schedule and to get back to strength training. I actually gained weight preparing for this event, which was concerning me until I talked to my runner pals about it and they confirmed that this is both common and normal. Phew. So now I can refocus my energy on mindful eating and a more balanced fitness routine.
    I did great with the run, finished ahead of my normal pace and am proud of the accomplishment. I also don't know if I need to do another of these in cold spring weather. ;) I almost died out there, and only finally had sensation in my feet again bu mile 5. Thanks for cheering me on.

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    1. Hi SS1
      finally getting around to congratulate you on your run.
      Yeahhhhhhh. xxxxxxx
      Gabby xo

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  50. Yaaaay Well done ss1, get yourself a big fat treat, all that hard work has paid of, you’ve made me want to try it now : ) bet it felt good crossing that finishing line.

    You know I was thinking about what you said about your son and your ex meeting you at the finish line, I bet you anything had you have asked them they would have been there, sometimes we think they might use initiative but unfortunately as we have learnt with men they mostly always don’t. I’m glad your friends were there beside you offering their support. Now it’s time for some hot yoga : ) have you tried that not heard of it in the uk sure it’s an American thing..

    Take it easy my love xx

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  51. Hi Everyone,

    I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Nothing new haha. My WH and I have kind of agreed to go through Mediation. I know that he will not not take care of the kids and will give me what I need to live comfortably and be on my own. I know the Mediator will help steer me towards what I should do. We even said that we would have lawyers look over the end document before we sign it. We could never afford to get lawyers anyway and the whole process would take so much longer and cost so much and get the kids involved. The only way is Mediation. I am just a little worried.

    1. because I have spoken to my sister and brother, my brother has been through a divorce and lives in NY where they don't have Mediation. He said to be careful and just be smart and make sure that I get all I should get. My sister is little more insistent and wants me to not do Mediation but to get a lawyer so I can get all that I can get and more.

    2.) I am in confusion because I still don't know if he is planning a life with his Girlfriend. I really don't. He said that he left her but I don't believe him - and he claims that separating has been in his mind for a long time. I don't want to look on social media to confirm one way or the other - I have not looked for almost a month and I feel a weight lifted not looking at it. I almost looked today but my heart started pounding and I was just so nervous. Or - I know I could have someone hack all his messages on his phone to come to me - and I would know that way for sure. Do I try to confirm if he is still with her and that is why he is separating? Would this change the way I go about the divorce?

    I am just in this awful place where I don't believe or trust him at all. I know I won't get completely screwed over but I would like to know if he is doing this for his girlfriend. I just want to know and I know he will never tell me.

    I just don't know what to do. I can do all the research I can online and maybe get some more advice from a lawyer - but I have the feeling that I won't be completely prepared going into this. My WH wants for us to agree on things before we go to mediation - work it out between us first so the Mediation goes smoother and faster - he wants to be divorced by the end of the year if we agree - IDK - things just seem so sketchy - I am uneasy.



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    1. Ann,
      Sounds like you're in a good position to negotiate because he's more keen to get this done than you are. I would sit down and figure out exactly what you want -- every single thing. Your wish list. That's where you start your negotiating. But make sure you also have a list of non-negotiables -- things you absolutely won't budge on and will go to court instead with a lawyer rather than compromise. Ideally, you'll end up somewhere between your wish list and your non-negotiables. The thing with mediation is it's a whole lot cheaper than lawyering up. So use that to your advantage. But get clear on the laws in your state so that you know exactly what you're entitled to. If he's not going to have much custody then you need a whole lot more financial support from him. And spousal support because you've been supporting his career for years.

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    2. One more thing: Try not to give a damn whether he's going to her or not. It just doesn't matter at this point. If it's not her, it's going to be someone else. That is no longer your problem. Your goal is to come away from this marriage with everything you need to give yourself the time/space to begin to think about your own future, to ensure that your children's needs/wants are covered (including future needs/wants -- college, etc.), and with minimal disruption to your current way of life.

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    3. Thanks Elle!

      Yes. I should just look at is as a prime time to get out. I will do research for my state and make a list of everything I want / need as you mentioned. Negotiables and non negotiable. I will try and be smart!

      I don’t know why. But I’m hung up on him just admitting that he is going through all this for her. I can’t get off it. I want him to just say it because I know it’s true-but he won’t! So - I stupidly looked quickly on Instagram and found out he is lying! He didn’t break up with her and block her-he lied to me again! Right to my face!

      He says I hate and he wants us to stop the hate so we can be civil and figure out what we both want. He said he wants me to be happy and wants to make sure me and the kids are OK.

      We went to lunch yesterday to go over what we want. I wasn’t prepared - he was. He said he wants us to look toward a bright future and not a dark past. I didn’t get that vibe at all. He made me nervous and anxious and I didn’t even recognize who he was. I got the vibe that he wants this but he is pissed at what he has to give up for all his hard work. It was creepy. And when I asked him again! The reason for this. This shift-why he didn’t want to try just once more and get help-he got really mad-brought yo a billshit story about how he brought illegal stuff through the airport to make $ because we needed $ and I wasn’t there to help him out. Wow.

      Why does it matter to me so much that he just admits he is doing this for her? Why do I care as long as I get out!? I can’t figure out why I am such an idiot at this point!

      I know one of my no go’s as he calls it-my kids never lay eyes on that Latin, tattooed, brace face slut-never and have to meet her. Never.

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    4. Ann reply part 1
      Ann, my ex and I used a professional mediator. I got to pick her, and she had handled many cases like ours over the year. Before mediation I went first and had a free consult with a lawyer. She spent a lot of time with me and helped me to understand what my rights were in my state and county and help make a clear picture of what I could expect financially based on state minimums for child support and alimony. It was a not ideal. The fact that I would only get a year for every two years married was a bit of a shocker. She also clued me in to a lot of other factors and things I could negotiate. Like the fact that the kids were with me full time meant I could negotiate for more support. And that if things did ultimately go to court, things would go largely in my favor because he moved out and I had maintained my position in the family home (and not done a time share like he wanted when we first separated). She did not charge me a dime. And I asked her what the cost would be to have her review our mediation agreement, once it was ready, and before I signed it. In case she saw anything glaring or that was taking advantage. She told me because it would only be a few hours of her time, that she would likely only charge me $500. In the end, she charged me nothing. But she reviewed the agreement, pointed out some areas that concerned her and even wrote a couple of letters for me.
      The mediator works for you both and is interested in helping you get through this in the most fair, equitable and amicable way possible. Our mediator thought through and covered a whole lot of things that would never have occurred to me, including the fact that my ex and his massive income are responsible for covering our children's college fees. We both agreed to maintain sufficient life insurance coverage for the duration of the agreement such that if he croaked I would get a payout of the remaining alimony terms and be in a position to buy this house and that if I were to croak, he would be able to buy this house. Seemed fair. I also had to insist that he ensure the policy would pay out in the event of suicide etc.
      The mediator had us each sit down and do a budget. You might as well get started on that now. Think about house payments, utilities, groceries, clothes, toiletries, mobile phones, medical expenses, health insurance premium for you if you are currently under his plan, gas, car insurance. I'd suggest you start tracking everything and everything you can think of to come up with an annual number that you need. (I use an online budgeting app called YNAB - You Need A Budget. I used this tool to manage my money. They teach you how. I literally saved $9,000 last year and covered all my expenses and took a vacation with the kids. I also have my mortgage and utilities funded two months ahead and my money typically sits on my account from 38 to 50 days. This means I am not living paycheck to paycheck and can handle emergencies. I am also setting aside money for retirement. I know I would not have that money if I had not been using my budgeting app.) I used this tool to set aside the quarterly taxes I pay on alimony (federal only, no qtly tax on alimony in my state).
      Mediation saved us a whole lot of money. And in the process, I receive significantly more money than the state minimum would have allotted to me. I would have lost my house and been in a completely different place. I know the alimony isn't forever, but it buys me time to dig back into my career and business and it means my son gets to get through high school and his first year of college without being uprooted from his home.

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    5. Ann reply part 2
      My advice for mediation is; be willing to compromise to get the stuff that really matters. Be open minded about ideas from the mediator, even if they seem strange at first. Since my daughter was close to 18, we loaded her “child support” into the alimony payment because my expense for her and maintaining the house was not going to change just because she turned 18. If we’d gone with the courts and the state rules, I’d have gotten about two months of child support for her and then been screwed. Don't haggle or make things difficult out of spite. You will only end up hurting yourself. Do speak up for what is important to you or when you have a question or when something doesn't feel right. Also know that if you need to, you can request one on one time with the mediator. He or she will then also give equal one on one time to your H. But you are free to do this. I believe discussions will go on record in the mediation documents but will not necessarily be readily available to your ex. Our mediator began with in initial one on one with each of us. I could have, at that time, let her know that we were divorcing because of infidelity. I opted not to. I really felt like I wanted to take the high road and also did not want to appear to be attempting to influence her against my husband. That was just my take on that. I think she knew anyway.
      A lawyer is no guarantee that you will "get all that you can" or stick it to him or whatever. It creates a long contentious battle and your kids will suffer for it. I watched it happen to a very good friend of mine. Their divorce took five years of awfullness. It wasn't until their middle school aged daughter started cutting herself that they finally got their heads out of their asses.
      I know you are angry and hurt and rightfully so. Don't let that drive your behavior when it comes to your future financial security.
      And about your issue 2. Whether or not he's planning a life with the OW is immaterial to your financial future. It has no bearing on what you deserve or are entitled to financially. I can't emphasize enough how important it's going to be to keep anger, revenge or a wish to cause him pain out of your negotiations. Honestly, make sure you have a good therapist to help you through this (include this in your budget, especially if your health coverage will be changing). Mine is also a couples therapist with a lot of experience coaching through infidelity. She's a gem. I wish everyone could see her. She became a safe place for me to express all that angst, so I could go into my mediation sessions with a level head on my shoulders. She had some good advice on things to fight for and when to compromise. Whether or not he ends up with the OW or some other broken assed piece of damaged goods is no longer your problem. You need to focus on making sure you and your kids are provided for, for the foreseeable future.
      I promise you that there will be a point in your future where you look back and wonder how you put up with living with his bullshit for so long. You will be better than OK.
      And PS come and ask questions and keep us posted.
      PPS Do not forget self care in this time. Take care of your body. rest. Soak in the tub. Be oh so careful with the alcohol or whatever your medication of choice is.
      Ann, it is so so hard, but you can do this.

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    6. Ann
      I feel for you, with what you are going through.
      I so get you needing confirmation of your husbands actions, but guess what? You knew before hand, you had the gut feeling and you were right. (Mine was the same).
      I hope you get all that need, that you rightly deserve and are entitled to and more....and peace.
      Thinking of you
      Gabby xo

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    7. Thanks Still Standing 1 and Gabby and of coarse Elle!

      I have a lot of work to do! I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed so I am just hoping I can really focus and research and really be thorough to make sure I do it all right. I am going to see a lawyer closer to me that offers free 30 minute consultations now that I know that we are doing Mediation. I have already seen a lawyer who is also a mediator - that was a paid 1hr consultation. I think I will use him to look over the agreement when it is done.

      I know I shouldn't be hung up on my H and his girlfriend. I can't help that it bothers me so much. I know she is the reason for all of this. I know I wanted him gone last March, I have been wanting to separate and divorce and be rid of him. He didn't want that - He even mentioned counseling at the end of December! But once he was more involved with her, that all changed. That is when brought up Divorce. He never was into a woman before where he would write poetry for her and profess his love and soul for the world to see. And I am supposed to believe that she has nothing to do with this Separation?! BS! How the hell is something like that not supposed to bother me? I know she is a blessing in disguise and am better off without him, but c'mon! How much can one person take?! When do their worlds collapse and come crashing down!!! Why just mine?!

      My H says I am a hateful person, that I am full of hate. Um, duh? What does he expect?! Why can't he see that he is the reason I HATE HIM! Why is it up to me, according to him, to just let the hate go!? Fuck Him - I told him, I will always hate you, I will never forgive you for anything and you can't just tell me not to hate. He always tells me, "Let's just stop the hate and blame and move forward". OK. So who do I blame for what he did to me? Santa Clause? Wonder Woman!? I just can't believe that I have to deal with a person that can't even understand this basic principle, that what he has done to me throughout the years has caused me to hate.

      I need to see my IC! He has been booked up but I am going to schedule ahead so I can go at least 2 times a month.

      I blocked my H from my phone. We had a fight before he left because he was lying about everything! He moved $5,000 of our tax return money from our joint account to his Credit Union account without telling me. I helped him find his routing number for his credit union and I asked why he needed it and he said it was for his 401k - we are trying to get a hardship withdrawal to pay up our daughters college tuition. LIE. No mention of moving money around. Then on March 1 he claimed he went to see a counselor when he really went to see his Lawyer. LIE. He said he broke up with his GF and I had to look on Instagram to see a stupid post about her loving him after the day he said they broke up. LIE. On top of that was the trip he took to see his GF when he told me he was going to be on reserve in Miami. LIE. But thee aren't lies according to him - he is avoiding the truth so I don't get upset. I am so sick of his gas lighting. I am not talking to him - at all.

      And - he wants to be able to hang out in this house once we are separated, when he is in town to see the kids? Have movie nights with the kids and Play video games, etc., then leave when they go to bed?! No Fucking Way!!! That is what families do and we are not a family. The less I have do see him and deal with him - the better.

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    8. Ann
      How your husband sounds so much like mine!
      I don't know what you or he do for a job, but please just know - you are smart. I too used to use phrases as "I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed" - but I don't use those terms to describe me anymore....I will say, "I've not had to deal with this, can you please explain".
      Lets face it. Unless this is your job, who understands the intricacies of the law and finances.
      My husband would say degrading things like that to me and criticize me all the time, and it became my language. I may not be academically educated like him, but I am so much more intelligent than he is when it comes to being a decent human (but not to these cheating husbands or whores - that's my exception) and to me, that outweighs any learned book smarts.
      (just my opinion).
      I really can't help with what to do with your husbands constant lies and hiding financials, because that is what mine did. This is where a good lawyer will help.
      My h wanted to have an amicable separation, where he could come here and play happy families and then turn around and go home to his whore. NO WAY. I said those same words to him "we are not a family" and added "you broke us - you don't get to choose the next parts of our lives".
      The best thing for me was going no contact so I understand your reasoning for doing so.
      I feel for you Ann. I'm glad you are going to IC and I hope you have a good IC that you are happy with.
      Sending big hugs
      Gabby xo

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    9. Thanks Gabby,

      You are right. No one knows the law - it's so confusing. My H is a Pilot and I have a BS Degree in History - just have had some Administrative jobs, was a SAHM. Hoping to teach High School Soon. All throughout our marriage I was told how stupid I was. That I am a retard. That I only have a stupid History Degree. But - now that I am on my own and we will go through Mediation - he told me I am smart! And I will be able to know what is right for me! HA HA! I almost puked in his face!

      You are right, I would rather be a good person and a human being with morals and empathy than a hyper smart Pilot any day.

      Yes - his days of relaxing in this house are over. I am not dealing with him at all. He will not get to hang here, eat, sleep and be with his kids. It is our future now - without him.

      Thanks for your reply! It really helped!

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  52. Wow! Way to go SS1! That is such a great accomplishment! I am in pretty good shape but can’t imagine doing a half marathon by myself! You should be so proud and think of yourself as a badass!

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    1. Thanks Ann I am feeling pretty good about the accomplishment. I'm also enjoying knowing it is over and I can get back to a life without rigorous training. :) I ran in my Wonder Woman tights BTW.

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    2. Hi Phoenix
      How are you going? Hoping you have settled into your house and life is going nicely for you.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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  53. Hi Sam A
    thinking of you
    I've got a spare hour so catching up on some BWC reading and just wanted to say hi to you and everyone else.

    Gabby xo

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  54. Hi love thank you for checking up on me .. I’m taking each day as it comes still in the ‘in between place’ at present but it’s a safe and quiet place so I’m good. H still refusing to sign divorce papers which is a little more complicated, he’s making this hard for me by resisting and claiming he will do anything and everything for another chance, maybe he will but I’m not wanting to reconcile this time the last 2 times before yes i did the first time more than ever, the second I was less sure this time I’m like leave me the fuk alone : ) .. honestly this whole drama shitstorm you wanna call it is just confusing the hell out of me. But I’m in a good place, the best I’ve been so let’s just wait and see what the future beholds.. how are you gabby??? Xxxx

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  55. Sam A
    You do get to the point of enough and want out. I'm annoyed for you that your h is being such a shit and expecting another chance? what to fuck up again and put you and the kids through all this again? How many chances do they need????
    I'm glad you are in a good place. I hope you can stay in this good place.
    Me.
    Mostly a lot of good days, but then there may be just one thing that sends me wanting to just get the hell away from everyone and everything.
    Yep. I was preempting my departure as I waited for my kids to come back after being with him and his family for an Easter catch up...and his whore was there. Of course I played all sorts of mind movies all day long whilst they were away from me. This was the first time they would meet his whore. Whilst they said "we've got your back mum", there was a knife twisting in my heart with MY babies meeting this new whore. Thankfully they came back unscathed and avoided her all day and didn't become best friends with her...I didn't need to run away. The kids said she wasn't the social butterfly they expected as my STBX would tell them one of the reasons he didn't want to be married to me any more was because I was not social enough! In other words, he wanted to go out with his female work friends and socialize with them without me so he can flirt and have his ego stroked and fuck them. (sorry for the expletives - I'm a tad pissed off).
    As much as I have wonderful supportive friends, but at the end of the day I am alone. Yes, I enjoy my own company, and that is a skill I admire about myself, but, besides my kids who has my back? My IC has told me that I have to be my own support person, I have to trust my own decisions and red flags etc, which I get, but.
    STBX has not been made to be accountable for what he has done! He just gets to go through life with destroying a family, me and our kids for his own selfish desires and no repercussions. He's doing exactly what he wants, still is enjoying success at work, has another new whore - he's living the high life whilst we are on struggle street. Is there karma? If so, I want him to experience it now, not in 30 years when he's an old man and nothing works and he's been able to lead a good happy life whilst all things are functioning. Yes I want him to feel the pain he put me and our kids through.
    In terms of his stupid family - when the kids just came back I heard how my STBX MIL is towards his new whore. She is one of the most hypocritical bitches MIL I have ever met. She is a huge problem in her kids life and yes whilst I am glad I don't have to deal with her anymore, she still annoys the shit out of me when I hear how she talks to my kids - her grandchildren - by adding cutting remarks to them, yet treats the new whore with loving remarks. What messed up person would do that? And that really annoys me that none of her children see it, or refuse to call her out for it, yet they're so ready to call others out for whatever reason. What sick hold do these parents have over their children? And then my STBX sister in law who does not like my stbx husband at all is happy to be two faced and act all nice and lovely to everyone to be seen as the good one, yet talks so degrading about them behind their back. WT..??!!
    Anyway. I feel better I've had my rant.
    Gabby xo

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  56. Easter and full moon. Time for new beginnings. Time to let go (of hope for a reconciliation). I had given my h an ultimatum of Easter Saturday to tell me where he stood (after months of shilly-shallying). Well, he said exactly what I expected. He "doesn't know" what to do.
    He said we should try, because it made sense, but he had no feelings for me. Then he said we should go our separate ways. Then that he didn't know.
    I am exhausted. I told him we should see a counsellor to get professional help to move forwards (most likely towards a separation). I can't do this on my own.
    He is emotionally banjaxed/ shut down.
    Today, with a smile, he said he wants to go on a ski-ing holiday this weekend... alone. WTF

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  57. Selkie, you’ve given him time and space to decide what he wants and in a round about cowardly way he’s telling you. You can’t wait around for him to make the decisions as he clearly doesn’t feel he needs to, sellkie get some professional help and see a lawyer if you havnt done already. I know this is hard for you but once you start taking control of your life you will start to feel much more stronger. Whether he gets his head out of his ass is up to him but you can’t wait around for him forever on a whim that he might make a decision, it’s not fair on you or your child. Personally I wouldn’t give him any more time or decisions he’s had plenty. It’s time to put on them big girl panties selkie and show this man what you are made of. I have absolute faith in you, you can do this my love xxx

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    1. Thanks, Sam A. I'm feeling very shaky. I don't know why I keep hoping that the man I once (thought I) knew will come back. It seems like he is just an absent hologram.

      I have an appointment to see a legal person and a counsellor too. Wondering about psychoanalysis - but that might be too much for me to take in my current state of slow-motion tailspin.

      A friend has offered to put me and my daughter up for part of the summer holidays. I LOVE the idea of rest and escape... but am sadly without any inspiration as to what to do in the 'real world' after that: where to live/ work, etc.

      It's a new experience for me not to have some idea of where I want to go/ what I want to do. I am much better at overcoming obstacles when I'm going towards something I really want.

      Time to build up my energy and break out of this orbit.

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    2. Hi Selkie
      Enjoy the summer break with your daughter and your friend. Maybe some time away will give you more clarity for you to make a decision regarding where you live and work, and at least give your mind some peace. But just remember,it's ok to change your mind as you re think things through regarding your future.
      I'm so annoyed that your h is so indecisive and not prioritising you and his daughter, but this should give you an indication of his head space.
      Hope the weather is good.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    3. Thanks Gabby. I am SOOO impatient and frustrated with myself for not having a good Plan B or C or anything like that. Hopefully some time out will help. Three months to go until respite!

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  58. It's bad enough having to find out about the betrayals, the constant lies, finding your husband is an actual arse hole lying bastard - then have the kids meet his (latest) whore, as she's now part of his life. Feels like the knives just keep getting stabbed and twisted into my heart. When will this EVER end??? No one knows what it's like until it happens to you. Everyone says "it's bound to happen." Fuck it. Life is just shit. No one really cares about us wives our feelings from the betrayal and what he's doing to manipulate the kids into his screwed up life.
    Gabby xo

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    1. It sounds very painful. I hope that as time passes, you will feel those cruel knives as the nothingness that set them to action. Your heart is not a playground for other people's confusion. You can be sure that you are not alone. Sending you courage.

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    2. Gabby,

      I am so sorry for what you are going through now. I feel your pain - no one gives a crap about us - we are just the stupid wife that gets in the way. I could not deal with My WH introducing some chick to my kids! No way. Can't you make that part of your separation? Even if it is just an agreement between you and your WH - if he know how much it bothered you? I hope things get better!

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    3. Oh Gabby, I hear your anger and feel your pain. It would probably make me feel like a crazy person to endure what you are living through. You show such strength to all of us. Don't let the bastard get you down darling. Your kids will see through him and when he leaves his latest COW for another one, they will see it. Sending you some of my "Grammy pixie dust" to soothe your day.

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    4. Thanks Sam A, Selkie, SS1, Ann, Phoenix, Beach Girl
      She's got my husband, it's what she wanted. She actively over the years pursued a married man with kids. And yes my h is 100% at fault but women like her are also 100% to blame (and she can now have the piece of shit) BUT she's not getting my babies.
      The kids don't want anything to do with her, yet stbx is at them to do things with him and she'll be there. He has no understanding or sympathy to them, and just wants everything his way. When the kids didn't want to see him with her, (happy to see him on his own) he even had the gall to say "I'll go to the courts and they'll make you"!!! Threatening his own children.
      So one minute he ignores them, wont even offer to help, and then the next minute he wants them - when he wants them!
      This is what I still have to heal with.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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  59. Gabby let it all out and know you are amongst sisters who care. Wrap yourself up with all the love I’m sending you. Xxx

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  60. Gabby I'm sending you a huge hug right now. It sounds like you are having a rough go. The thought of my ex having the kids meet some future girlfriend, even a legit one at this point, fills my stomach with bile. So I can only imagine what you must be experiencing right now.
    I hope by the time you are reading this, that some of that pain has passed and you recall that he is not worth all this pain and hurt. I know you know you deserve so much better. XOXOXO

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  61. So I guess I'll get caught up. I have been insanely busy with my business. Really doing incredible things and working hard to make it grow. I decided I wasn't going to sit around feeling sad and afraid because in a few years my alimony was going away and I'd have to sell the house , blah blah blah. Instead, I am finally finding my business mojo again and doing the work to get myself and my business where we are earning what I make now PLUS what I get from alimony. My plan is to do this and, if I want to, be in a position to buy my ex out of the house when the time comes. Ha! How do ya like me now?
    My volunteer work is so good. I mean its a lot sometimes but it is good.
    My kids are doing well. I had Easter dinner with them and extended family over at my ex's place. Yes you read that right. And it was fine. And I think it was good for the kids (and everyone) to see us as just fine. Also, I caught him looking at me a couple of times and while I would actually pay huge sums of money to know what he was thinking, I'll be content with telling myself it included no small amount of regret. I am thriving and where is he?
    On a sadder but totally healthy and OK note, I have ended my relationship with new guy. He's been stiff arming me emotionally and physically for months and I've been sad and lonely and trying to understand what was happening. I gave myself time. I tried to talk with him. One night I finally worked up the courage to talk to him a little about what I had been through with my ex. I cried a little. He completely failed to show up. In fact,over the next week he freaked out, walled up and shut down. He acted as though I had done something to harm him , rather than simply reveal a painful part of my story. He abruptly stopped including me in his plans etc though he still texted me every day. I confronted the issue with him and let him know I was not happy about what was happening. He said he needed time. Over a couple more week I too time to sort through my feelings and get to a place where I realized that this relationship no longer served me. And he was there too. And so we are just friends.
    I'm still disappointed. The rejection still hurts, because he chickened out long before I finally called him on it. And the idea that I am still picking the same, emotionally unavailable, kinda selfish guy is really bugging me. And the whisper that no one wants me is starting to irritate me. That girl needs to be silent. But remarkably, I am good and in a way relieved. Long term he was not right for me. Too much of a "nothing ever goes my way" or looking at other peoples success and saying "what am I doing wrong?" kind of thing. And also some of his friends (men and women) are kinda entitles assholes. So making space in my life for something better.
    And BTW absolutely taking a break from dating. I am looking forward to focusing on myself, my kids, my home and my business. I'm also treating myself to botox! Woohoo!
    Love, ss1

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    1. Hi SS1
      Glad you have your mojo back. It sounds like so many wonderful things are falling into place for you. And you are doing it on your own!!!
      Well at least you had a go at dating, with the new guy, but so glad you can see red flags and know your worth.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    2. Yes Gabbhy, its all a step in the right direction. This relationship filled a need for a while and I learned a lot. But when it started making me sad. I had to change my thinking about it. And I do know I deserved a guy who can show up for me.
      XOXOXO

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    3. I will also admit, that breaking up has me feeling low. I didn't bother to tell him how I'd seen him pulling away since December and all the other things on my mind, like how he was operating from fear and that had been driving him for a while and in other areas in his life. Because ultimately, he's not gonna hear it and it's not my job and its not going to change the outcome.
      So while I am struggling with the rejection that even this person who is not right for me couldn't see what he had, I recognize that my hurt over the relationship ending has nothing to do with any kind of attachment to this man. Rather it is about, to some degree, the hurt of being alone, of STILL not being chosen and more than anything else about the hurt of being abandoned by people who should have been there for me (i.e. my mother and father). And a little bit of the why not me, when I see my friends in nice situations or the ones with actually good marriages. So I continue to enumerate to myself the many ways this person was not right for me. I allow myself to feel sad. And I'm taking a break from dating, as I mentioned above, until I can work through why I am still picking people who are basically selfish and emotionally unavailable and not doing any work on it. Ug.
      He wanted to keep on spending time together as we had been, Still hang out, still text a lot. I declined. I said I needed time and that I would actually prefer to communicate on a more reasonable "friend" level than the all day every day thing he was used to. To me it felt like he wanted to fire me from a job but still do the work. Just without pay and benefits lol. He's sold his original boat and it is sailing off to warmer waters (its ironic that his boat is going off to lead the life he wants without him because he lacks the courage). He was definitely looking for sympathy. And while I responded as I would to a friend I declined to engage in a long conversation about it. Its completely illogical but I recognize I'm sad about losing a relationship I didn't want anymore. I think what I regret is that the face he showed me for the first five months was not who he ended up being. How do you learn to spot that?
      I know one of my patterns of anger is to withdraw and go silent. It is interesting to see it appear here. Something I'll need to talk to my shrink about.
      I went for a long walk with my camera. Went off the beaten path and got some great photos. It was good to let myself ruminate and then get lost in the creative hunt for birds.
      And I will get back to dating. Just not until I feel more settled and where that soft spot in my middle that makes me desperate for love and approval, is not quite so raw.

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  62. Hi Warriors,

    I have something that is really bothering me.

    My WH is trying to secure a hardship loan from his 401K to catch up on one of our daughters tuition. He called to update me on it and how he was going to get the money to her. Then he asked about a bill I had paid from our joint account. I didn't realize he had access to that account - It is a joint account - but I use it for me and the kids - I have some tax return money in it now so I was paying off some things etc.

    Meanwhile - he has his own accounts with his Credit Union that is his and I don't have access to. I can't see where he spends money or anything. I told him that this seems a bit unfair and that I might open my own account.

    He didn't see my point at all. He said that I was not trying to work together to help our daughter and I just want to fight. That I make things all about me and he cannot trust my mental state at any time!!! That he is trying to help and pay things and fix things in the house and I just want to fight! That whose money do I think it is in that account that he checked on? Then he threatened to stop the check from the 401K because I was being difficult!

    We are still married. He wants me to cooperate with bills and kids and getting things repaired in the house and with the cars. But I am supposed to be OK with him having access to both accounts and I don't? When we are separate - Yes - I'll have my own money and he will have his - but we aren't separated yet.

    I don't know. It just really pissed me off. It felt like I was being screwed over again somehow. He made me feel like I was being unreasonable for even bringing it up.

    I just find it sad that before January and talk of this Separation, it was our money and he said that I deserved it as much as he did, and he wanted to make sure the kids and I had enough each month. Now it's all his and either we cooperate and we make it work for everyone or we fight and draw lines in the sand.

    I have a valid reason for that bothering me, right? Why can't he see that and just admit that something like that would bother anybody.

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    1. Hi Ann
      sorry to hear you have to deal with this regarding finances and your husband.
      You have every right to be bothered by this. Some of us not only have to deal with a lying cheating husband, but also his deception and lies around finances. It's a good idea to have legal advice. Let us know how things go.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    2. Ann, you have every right to be concerned that he has accounts that you don't have access or visibility into. And his telling you that "all you want to do is fight and make things all about you" and about your mental state, is sexist, manipulative, blackmailing bullshit. Its a countermove. He does not at all like that you are standing up to his BS so him saying those kids of things is a countermove to get you to back down. The key here is to stay calm in the face of that garbage and know that you have a right to a) open your own bank accounts that are not shared with him and b) you have a right to visibility into the other martial assets. See those accounts of his? They are a joint marital asset because you two are still married. Even if he is refusing to share access with you, he will have to declare them and share what's in them during mediation. Failure to do so can have serious consequences for him. (The same thing will go for any accounts you open now. They will be considered joint marital assets. Still worth doing if you are concerned that he is going to do something crazy etc. I would just urge very serious caution here, with regards to opening accounts and moving money. Maybe a chat with your lawyer again.)
      The comments about your mental state make my blood boil. It is a classic tactic used by people when they want to shame women into submission. Just remember that he is wrong. Given the state of things, you have every right to be concerned about the financial activities he's engaged in. I'd urge you to ask, calmly, for equal shared visibility into all accounts and credit cards. You will both be held responsible for any shared debt as well. (unless his CC is a corporate card). This is reasonable and not at all making something all about you. It does involve you. It does impact your life and so you do have a right to know what is going on.
      I would wait on your own accounts until after you've spoken with an expert. Do that soon. It could very much be misconstrued and be taken as a threat. I will mention that I started accumulating cash. It was a method of protecting myself against short term catastrophe. Everything I went to the grocery store, I would take out an additional amount in cash. And I kept it in a secure location in my home. This was in the last few months approaching the date we had agreed on for him moving out. Things were very much limbo.
      Ann, Please try to let go of the idea that he is ever going to "get" what he's done or why you might feel the way a rational person would in this situation. He's shown you over and over that he is completely wrapped up in his own feelings, concerns and selfish ways. He wants what he wants and he's used to you falling in line with that. He's also shown that he is not willing to make any changes to his mindset. You will suffer less if you begin to accept that he is and is likely to stay, a completely selfish asshole.
      You are not unreasonable for bringing it up. You can try to point out that since you are moving toward separation and trying to cooperate on bills, the house, cars etc. It makes the most sense for you both to have a clear picture of the finances and joint marital assets. His accounts with the CC will be considered a joint marital asset, even if they are only in his name. (For example, my business accounts only had my name on them and only had money in them from work I had done and it was a sole proprietorship. It was still considered a joint marital asset during mediation and under divorce law.) Even if you state this calmly, he's going to push back and call you names and try to shame you into submission. Don't bite the hook. You can calmly repeat yourself. And eventually you can say something like "I've said what I've needed to say. I stand by it." and Walk Away or otherwise end the conversation if you are not face to face.
      Ann you are not the crazy one here.

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    3. Ann, totally NOT OK what he is doing. Talk to your attorney asap. Just my 2 cents.

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    4. Thanks SS1, Gabby, Beach Girl and Phoenix!

      I hate that I am still being manipulated by him and he's been gone since March 29th! I haven't had access to that account for a long time. I knew it was wrong that I can't see what he spends, but I am always reminded that I am not making any money to really help our situation and he is the one busting his ass to pay for everything. I should work full time and let the kids fend for themselves - get rides home from clubs and rides to sports and back by themselves - because - how do single Mothers do it? If they can do it I can. The kids don't need me - even though he is gone all the time. How stupid it is that I volunteer at school instead of making money.

      I just need to get to work. I need to start getting everything organized and figure out my financial needs and all my wants for this Mediation. Figure out all the laws for my state, etc.....

      I just need to let go of this fantasy in my head that he will come around and get help and stay with us. I don't know why - I still can't believe that he will just toss me aside and not get help. That the better option is going through this whole separation/divorce and loosing time with his kids and his money and the ability to have a family. I just need to get over it. As much as I hate him - If he really got help and tried - I would be all in. It just seems like a better thing to work for than divorce. But - deep down I know I will be better off. It's just all so hard.

      I will stay calm and try my best to see through his gas lighting. I think once the separation agreement comes out of the Mediation - it will be a lot easier.

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  63. Hey. I’ve been gone again for a while. I’m sorry. I’m not doing great right now. I should be nothing but grateful for my new house and other blessings, but I’m struggling a lot with depression and anxiety. And for once, it’s just hard to talk about.

    Gabby, your anguish and anger remind me of my own. I’m so sorry. I hope you have found some comfort and some peace. No one cares about the wives.. But we feel for each other.

    I feel like I’ve failed at everything that mattered.

    Sorry, friends. I sit here typing and un-typing, and I can’t seem to say anything . I’ll try again in a little while.

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    1. Phoenix, remember your name. Anyone with an ounce of sensitivity has moments or periods of self-doubt and fear. But you will rise again. It is your nature.

      Know that we here care so much and feel so much. You are in a safe place with friends.

      You feel how you feel. There is no pressure to go along with how you 'should' feel. Allow yourself to feel it all, Phoenix, and you will rise up again when the time is right.

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    2. Phoenix, It sucks that you are struggling. It's terrible to find ourselves there after a time of relative peace or acceptance or whatever.
      And it's true, in so many ways, that the wives in the narratives about infidelity are so often dehumanized, relegated to the shadows, rendered powerless and worthless, while at the same time required to carry the burden of both shame and blame. We're women. Easy targets, given society's tendency to make us responsible for everything that happens to us or around us.
      Phoenix, that feeling like you've failed at everything that mattered? That's the depression and anxiety talking. And those guys are liars. Those feelings of worthlessness are absolutely driven by depression.
      Could it be that you need a rest? You are such a fighter and you've been strong for your girls for so long. Can you not lay it down for an afternoon?
      Also, I want to tell you, that if your girls know they are safe with you, can talk to you about how they are feeling and know it is not "too much," if they know they are loved, if they know they always belong with you, then You. Have. Not. Failed. Can you be the same mother to yourself?
      And I know the feeling of typing and untyping. Sometimes there's so much to say, that there are no words. Or so much to feel that it erases speech altogether. At such times, I try to give myself permission to simply type and ask for what I need. "I need a hug." "I am sad and could use some encouragement."
      I'm hoping by the time you are reading this, that some of the pain and anxiety and sadness are lifting. That you are finding some peace again. That any bullshit in your live is taking a sabbatical. I'm sending you some of the sunshine that is shining on my and my completely unruly garden. xoxoxo SS1
      (Sorry if this is a double post. had some trouble with my PC)

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    3. Phoenix, here's hoping this is a very short season for your depression and anxiety my friend. It is hard to be a warrior all the time. Rest, breathe and refill your heart. We've got your back. Hugs to you.

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  64. Phoenix
    I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling at the moment. Please share your struggles with us, or a therapist - get it off your chest.
    You are right. We have each other.
    I wish I could do more than write words to you. I'm much better with doing. Sorry I can't be there physically to support you.
    Phoenix. You are one person that I have admired.
    You have not failed at anything!!!
    The way you conduct yourself with what has been thrown at you is with so much integrity.
    Of course there's going to be times we doubt ourselves after what we've been through, but you have so much love, care and compassion for your daughters, I think you are doing AMAZING.
    I suppose with the move you would have been extremely busy, setting and reestablishing your self, are you getting support, are you able to go out with family or friends to have some time out for you?
    As it is so often mentioned here Phoenix - One step at a time.
    Please look after yourself.
    Thinking of you and sending Hugs
    Gabby xoxoxox

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  65. Hey ss1, great to hear that your feel pretty damn good!!!! Sounds like you’ve been extremely busy, closing the book on one chapter and opening another, I’m smiling here just reeling from your post. Makes me happy to hear you are. There’s lots of positive things going on for you right now ss1 and that’s down to you and your choices, well done it’s been a tough time for you these last few months but you held on and rode the wave.

    Oooooh Botox, it’s all the craze over here in the uk everytime i do the school one of the mums have had their lips done : ). I was feeling like I’m missing out somewhere lol. What you thinking of having done ss1?

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    1. Sam a, I've been getting botox every 6 yo 9 months since my early 40s. It is injected in between your eyebrows at the bridge of your nose and around the outside of your eyes to relax wrinkles. (Squint or do an angry face in the mirror to see which ones.) It is not a filler, like juviderm, which is what people get in their lips. I get the botox done at my dermatologist and she is an artist. My face isn't completely frozen etc. It does wear off because our bodies metabloize it (same with the derm fillers for lips.) But it does away with those deep frown lines and forehead wrinkles. I save up for it by settign aside the money I don't spend on hair dye each month. It's relatively affordable. Its the filler that is insane money. So I treat myself and I like the results. :)

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  66. Hey Phoenix, you take your time, we’re here for you when you are ready. Sending lots of love your way my friend. Missed you xxx

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  67. (When you out yourself on the internet. Oops.)
    Phoenix, It sucks that you are struggling. It's terrible to find ourselves there after a time of relative peace or acceptance or whatever.
    And it's true, in so many ways, that the wives in the narratives about infidelity are so often dehumanized, relegated to the shadows, rendered powerless and worthless, while at the same time required to carry the burden of both shame and blame. We're women. Easy targets, given society's tendency to make us responsible for everything that happens to us or around us.
    Phoenix, that feeling like you've failed at everything that mattered? That's the depression and anxiety talking. And those guys are liars. Those feelings of worthlessness are absolutely driven by depression.
    Could it be that you need a rest? You are such a fighter and you've been strong for your girls for so long. Can you not lay it down for an afternoon?
    Also, I want to tell you, that if your girls know they are safe with you, can talk to you about how they are feeling and know it is not "too much," if they know they are loved, if they know they always belong with you, then You. Have. Not. Failed. Can you be the same mother to yourself?
    And I know the feeling of typing and untyping. Sometimes there's so much to say, that there are no words. Or so much to feel that it erases speech altogether. At such times, I try to give myself permission to simply type and ask for what I need. "I need a hug." "I am sad and could use some encouragement."
    I'm hoping by the time you are reading this, that some of the pain and anxiety and sadness are lifting. That you are finding some peace again. That any bullshit in your live is taking a sabbatical. I'm sending you some of the sunshine that is shining on my and my completely unruly garden. xoxoxo SS1

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  68. I spent most of the morning reading and writing, to get caught up. Then I came back and saw all the posts, and started to cry. In a good way.
    Anyway, here is when I wrote this morning:
    I’m sorry for the bleak post after the long absence. I’ve been in a dark place lately. Keeping up appearances on the outside, drowning on the inside. Hopefully I’m riding it out, though.
    I can’t understand why the idea of my children spending time with the skank still fills me with such pain, rage, and pure hatred. I’ve never felt hatred like this at any other time of my life. It’s been about a year and 9 months since the divorce was final. I want to get past this. Why can’t I?

    Catching up:
    Gabby, you gave me some good advice a month ago. Thank you! And thank you for checking on me a week ago. It warms my heart to see your message. I’m settled, but still a lot of boxes to unpack once summer starts. I bought a mower and mowed my own lawn, which felt great!
    Sam, your “snippet” was heart-wrenching. It’s so emotionally wearing to be the grownup in the relationship, the one who is always trying to see both sides and give second chances.
    SS, I read everything you wrote about sex, and making good decisions. Why is it that I am able to logically reason out all this, but I can’t seem to apply it to myself emotionally? anyway, I think the reason I was hesitating in this case was that I truly was not very attracted to the guy. I was attracted to his personality, I genuinely liked him. It seemed to me like that should be enough. But it wasn’t. I have had sex with one guy since my divorce. It was after months of talking and several dates. And he was trustworthy. So I can’t regret it. But we weren’t a very good physical match.
    Sam, I’ve often considered foster care. I’d love to do it. I’m just not confident in my emotional equilibrium right now. I’m sorry you had to deal with trauma on Mother’s Day. You must have a pretty amazing sister. It sounds like you’re riding a wave of resolute energy like the one that got me through my divorce. The decision was made, and there was no going back. I turned away from chaos and pain, and reached out for peace and healing with both hands.
    Continued....

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    1. "I can’t understand why the idea of my children spending time with the skank still fills me with such pain, rage, and pure hatred."
      I can understand it. She's not a good person. She is selfish and fucked up and at a minimum you don't want that influence in their lives. Also, she just happens to have inflicted all kinds of pain on you without even thinking about you or what she was doing. Broken and selfish. She sucks. She is a trigger. And you get to be angry that because of her manipulative bullshit and lack of self respect and inability to use some form of protection, she has imposed herself on your life for the forseeable future. I, personally, when I think of my ex's mate-poaching whoreskank, still would like to punch her in the neck. If she was around and in my kids' lives I would need to be institutionalized. Its too much to even think about. The unfairness of it all. The complete and utter lack of justice. No satisfying explosion that you get to walk triumphantly away from in slow motion.
      A year and 9 months is no time at all. I'm faced with the reality that my ex will start dating legitimately at some point and I'm trying hard not to hate her in advance. Through not fault of her own, this future imaginary person will take on all the characteristics of the OW. And I will have to wrestle with myself not to write her an anonymous letter advising her to head for the fucking hills.
      You being so full of anger and rage and pain is not surprising to me. I think you are allowed to still be feeling those things.

      And as far as sex and dating and logic. Sex and logic rarely go together. However, I think you had a good insight. If you are not attracted to a person, you can't force that to happen. Not matter their other good qualities. I do think it is important to get curious about what is making you feel not attracted to people. Do you ascribe to the idea that you have a type? I've gotten more open minded about that since dating. New guy, that I just parted ways with, was not very tall. Only 5'8" this was new for me and definitely outside of "type." but I did some thinking about the fact that how tall a guy is has absolutely zero bearing on his ability to make me happy. He has a very cute little but and nice shoulders. And now, I find, that as I scope men out (because I do. All. the. time. ;) ) I now find myself considering shorter guys and finding them attractive, whereas in the very distant past I would have excluded them. I also very definitely have a thing for guys with shaved heads. It just seems masculine and confident. Own your dome, guy! At the same time, if a guy has cankles, its kind of a turn off, not matter how otherwise awesome he is. Maybe someday, I'll meet a guy who gets me over cankles..

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    2. SS, I really identify. I wasn’t nearly as invested in my rebound relationship as I was in my marriage - although he was a special guy. Yet that break up, and the dead end dating relationships I have had since, have seemed to bring up all that pain again. I don’t really want those guys, but I also don’t want to be alone. I’m still trying to fill the emptiness of not having a life partner.
      Do you think maybe we are forcing it? I mean, the online dating seemed like the thing to do at the time. It was a distraction, and it helped me meet people, which I don’t get to do much my daily life. But a lot of the online dating guys seem to have baggage, and relationship difficulties. It feels forced from their end too. Everybody is lonely.
      As far as my issues with attraction are concerned, it’s probably my own fault. I’ve been intentionally seeking out the most down-to-earth, dependable men I can find. The opposite of my ex. Physical attraction hasn’t really been part of the plan. I guess I was protecting myself. I just pictured this mild, friends-with-benefits relationship, because I knew I didn’t want anything serious right now. I wanted a relationship that was safe, that I could control. I didn’t want to be “swept away“ because I don’t trust that feeling anymore.
      But… It didn’t work out so well. Honestly, I don’t know if I even have a type anymore.

      I have discovered a liking for bald guys, though! I’m with you on that!

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    3. "but I don't want to be alone". yes, this. I'm hating that I am alone again. At least not with a guy. Dating and the chatting of online dating, and even the attention, was all definitely a welcome distraction. Now i'm to the point that although I don't want to be alone, I am so busy, the idea of jumping back into online dating makes me feel a little nauseous. Not because I am afraid, but because I just don't have the bandwidth to deal with the sorting and the go nowheres and the snippets or rejection and the walking wounded. God there's just so many. And I reconciled myself to the notion that if I'm dating men my age I'm dealing with a damaged population. What else could there be? Divorced or single we've all been through some stuff at this point. I'm hoping that eventually I'll meet one who is working on his stuff and open hearted and sporting a sexy shaved dome.
      I'm also at the point where if I have an instant pull of attraction, I'm just assuming they are emotionally unavailable, lol.
      Everyone, including me is lonely. I jumped into dating too soon. At first it was an act of defiance, just a month after we started mediation for divorce. It was grueling and I only ended up meeting guys who were interested in preying on my neediness. Luckily i bit none of those hooks and I took a couple months off. After the reset, I was in a better place and met a nicer batch of guys. I did better, and picked a much nicer guy. But in the end his life and choices are ruled by his fears. And, as I look closely now, we are not right for each other in a number of ways. So as my sister says, I learned some stuff and now the path is clear for something better.
      One of the ways I have opted to meet people instead of dating is through my volunteer work with a veterans group. This has been a game changer for me. I know you have your theater stuff. I hope you are focusing on the how rich your life is in so many ways. I try to do this and also know how hard it can be when I am stuck in a low down time. Hugs and love Phoenix. I'm off to run in the sunshine. xoxoxo

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    4. I hear you guys! I am not separated or divorced yet, but it sucks to be alone with no hope of sex or anything in the near future. I really hate my husband for taking that away from me - even though our relationship was f'ed up for so long - and he was always cheating on me - I think I was the one he really wanted to be intimate with - that that was real. Not any more - I am pretty sure I have been replaced. I mean, I am not having sex with him when he is writing poems of love to her - that is just stupid.

      I don't even want to think of going on Match or anything. I looked a few times and it was so depressing. How many creeps can take a picture of themselves, in their car, with sunglasses on?

      I think volunteering is a great start! And - I have been looking through the Meet up groups - just to get out and meet some new friends - not necessarily men - mostly to meet new girlfriends and go from there.

      I think you are right - men who are single at our age have a lot of problems and baggage - or they are married and cheating on their wives.

      Once I am separated I am going to save and take a vacation on my own - that could have possibilities too!

      But right now - it sucks!!!

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    5. Run, SS!Ruuuuuuun! :-)

      "Dealing with a damaged population" - yes. Absolutely. Online dating in our late forties was certainly nobody's plan A. Everybody has had things go wrong at this point. I would much prefer to meet people in real-life settings, rather than online. Unfortunately that's really hard. I work in an elementary school, where the guys are awesome but way too young! And in theatre, they are all gay, married, or again, too young. Looking to branch out in my activities.
      As Mimi said in "Rent" - "I'm looking for baggage that goes with mine."

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  69. Part 2 -
    Gabby, that grieving for the life I wanted for me, for my family, still hits me in the gut sometimes. Even though I know I chose a very wrong person with whom to try and create it. I still grieve.
    SS, congratulations on your run!!!
    Sam, as I keep reading your posts, I’m reminded of my ex and how he threatened not to sign, and then tried for months to reel me back in. I think, deep down, these men did not really believe we meant business. We hung on so long, gave them so many chances - it takes a long time for them to process, emotionally, that we are really finished with them. And they make everything harder because they just won’t believe that we are not their yo-yo anymore.
    Selkie, I’m sorry your h is playing painful games with you. You deserve better. Reach for it. Easter IS the time for new beginnings.
    SS, I’m sorry things didn’t work out with New Guy. I think he was good for helping you get through some rough times. But it doesn’t sound like he’s communicating in a healthy way. Like you, I’m kind of turned off to dating right now.
    Ann, it sounds like your h is gaslighting, trying to rewrite the situation the way he wants it to be, and casting you as unstable for not going along. Yes, he is unreasonable, and don’t let him get away with controlling the narrative. They do this; they manipulate and shift things around. Don’t let him mess with your head. Stand your ground. Keep restating the facts: you deserve to know exactly as much about his finances as he knows about yours. Now is the time to draw the line. I wish I had informed myself better about finances before I set divorce terms. Hell, I wish I had informed myself better about finances all through the marriage!

    I’m trying not to believe the negative voices I hear in my head. I’m trying to stay one step ahead of the monsters.

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  70. Selkie, Beach Girl, SS, Sam, Gabby - Thank you for your words, I cherish them so much. I’ll be rereading them tonight.

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  71. Phoenix, it’s so good to have you back, you know my story well and always give me sound advice. I trust you as I know you have been where I am now. These bumps in the road we experience Phoenix are just that, ups and downs neither last that long so I’m hoping your ‘dark place’ becomes light again. It always feels weird when one of our sisters is missing from the site for a while, I get worried so I’m glad you have come back, but I understand you had stuff to sort out. We’re like a little family here aren’t we? Elle has offered to be my older sister ; ) love you Elle.

    Phoenix as for the fostering I would suggest you at least look into it as it takes awhile to process I think you would be ace, you have so much to offer to a child. Go for it!

    And yes my sister was my hero that day she took total control of the situation meaning I didn’t have to get my hands dirty. I was just thinking it was 4 weeks today it happened I mean the cheek of it. I only hope she comes back I’ve got a plan up my sleeve along with a baseball bat waiting just behind the door : ) . Phoenix I’m pretty sure my h is doing what yours did and stall the situation thinking I might change my mind, I’m hoping he gets tired of trying to win me back and realise that he might as well just sign the papers, he won’t try forever, he’s not emotionally healthy enough to do the right thing long term. Strange guy that he is.. we will see ..

    Lovely to have you back Phoenix I feel whole again . : ) .. lots of love to you and your girls xxxx

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    1. Thank you, Sam! You are such a loving, generous soul.
      Seriously, we are a security blanket to these guys. I wish I had a quarter for every time my ex tried to call me in the middle of the night. I don’t answer. And it hurts my heart, because I know he is reaching out from the same sense of emptiness and loneliness that I have. But I also know that the story he’s telling me - The story of loneliness and regret - is not the only story he’s telling. I learned (the hard, excruciating way) that he is a story-tellerr, a castle-builder. He created a reality for the skank that was in a separate universe from the reality he created for me. And he still tries to maintain both. I can see past the façade now. It hurts.
      The lies, the betrayal, the emotional gut-punches. There comes a time when there is nothing on God’s green earth that will convince you to go back to that.
      I’ve done a little research on the Foster program thing. And yes, it would take about a year to do the preparatory work. It might be something I consider, one day. I spent 13 years teaching kids with emotional and behavioral disabilities. So I have a good idea of what to expect.
      Right now, though, there are still times when I question my own sanity, when the monsters get hold of me, and my children are the only thing that keep me alive. I’m not equipped to give stability and emotional succor to anyone else right now. God willing, maybe one day I will be.
      I hope things are resolved with your H soon. That state of limbo can be very difficult. Sam, when I think of everything you have been through - damn, girl. You are such a warrior.
      You have strength, self-respect, and real class. Hugs, sweetheart.

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  72. Ahhhhh Phoenix such lovely words and I’ve taken every one of them and held them close to my heart.. thank you my love, hearing such nice things is exactly what I needed : ) .. lots of love xx

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  73. Just typed my heart out for ten minutes and then lost it. What a way to start the day.
    Last week was particularly hard. Most of the time I try to avoid the thought that my kids are interacting - as FAMILY - with a person who has actively tried to harm me and has never once acknowledged me as a person, or acknowledged the pain her actions caused me. 
    When I avoid thinking about it, I do okay, and I think I am finally healing and getting past it. Then it hits me in the face, like this past week. And I despair, because the pain is still hideous and the anger is still overwhelming.
    Even after all this time, when I think about the texts I read and the conversations that went on behind my back, it still feels nightmarish and shocking that my best friend, the person with whom I had the closest relationship of my life, was able to do and say those things. The betrayal shouldn't feel fresh, but when those feelings get triggered, sometimes it does. And in my darkest moments I wonder if I, who am a loner by nature anyway, will ever be able to really bond with someone that way again. 
    Those are my dark thoughts, not the stronger, healthier thoughts I usually try to process and project.
    This morning, I woke to a text from my ex, which still happens occasionally, though not as often as it used to. He said "there are no good answers...I know in my heart that you got to a point of wanting peace for me..but that point was a ledge...You released and landed, but I fell. I cannot continue this way. You deserve closure, not the hell we both go through every day..." He apologized again and said he loved me.
    He sees me as having moved on, while still dealing with some pain - and that is true, although I do not express my pain to him anymore, if I can help it. When he talks about no good answers, I think he means that the existence of that sweet boy means that there is no way to avoid the constant reminders of the past, no way to leave it all behind. 
    As usual, I don’t know what to make of it. He is inclined to be dramatic, so I always take things with a grain of salt. But I don't know how to take his words - honest, manipulative, deceptive, loving, anguished...? I just do not ever know. I guess he noticed I was much cooler to him this week, after having been more friendly for a while. But when those reminders smack me in the face, the betrayal feels new, and I hurt so much and I get so angry with him - again.
    I don't know, friends.
    I know that all of us here are at different stages, and we have our progress and our reversals. But as the one who has, as far as I know, been longest divorced, sometimes I feel that expressing these things is discouraging for everyone. Our situations can be eerily similar, but they are still all different. My hope for everyone else is that the struggle will not be as hard for you when you are this far out.
    I shouldn't still be reliving that betrayal, but sometimes I do. And I feel such hatred for him. And then sometimes I feel so alone...and he reaches out.

    It's a journey. That's what I'm telling myself this morning. It's a journey. I'll get there.

    Will I even respond to his text, sent ‪at 2:43 AM‬? I don't know.

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    1. Phoenix, I wish I could go through and add comments to your post like in a word document. I am thinking so many things. So maybe I'll just write them out in reverse. But first big hugs and all the love I can send on a sunny spring Friday.
      "I shouldn't be reliving that betrayal..." why should you not? Is there a time limit on healing? Why should you be healed from a wound that keeps being worried and torn open? As you say, everyone heals at their own pace and for some of us, with trauma in our past or the ghosts of traumas from our parents and grandparents, it takes even longer. Because we came in more prone to be hurt and at least in the beginning, less resilient because we already carried so much.
      Please don't feel like you need to show up here with a false smile and pretending you are ok. Not here. Here, of all places, you are safe to feel as dark, angry, alone and discouraged as you need to be in any moment. It is not your job to be some beacon of hope, unless, on that day, you feel like a beacon of hope. For real. My therapist reminds me all the time that it can take 3-5 years before people get past the pain of divorce. And that's just the pain of divorce. I'm guessing you are not 3-5 years out yet. Go easy on yourself.
      As for your ex texting you in the middle of the night: is his name PT Barnum? What a showman and what a circus he's created. Honestly. How freaking selfish and impulsive can one man be? (Hint: we already know the answer) He creates these dramatic messages (probably after drinking, I'll wager) to create feelings in himself. That message was 100% a pity party by him about him and what a mess he's made. He's victimizing himself and using you as his audience.
      You've nailed it when you say you don't know what to make of his words "honest, manipulative, deceptive, loving, anguished" yes all of those things probably. Crafted carefully for you, his captive audience, hoping to get some of the response he needs to feed what is missing in him.
      He's STILL trying to keep you attached and it is completely selfish. Fuck him.(That's just me being angry on your behalf).
      And Phoenix, when I get to ruminating on what happened and the lies and all of it, I still get sick and angry as hell. I hate him and I hate her and their broken assed bullshit. But like you, I recognize it is not good for me to stay there. But I also think it is normal. It's just part of the ground we have to cover.
      And finally , the skank is never going to acknowledge you as a person or the pain she's caused because then she'd have to start dealing with her own.
      Here's my prediction though, I've got my crystal ball out. She's so broken and needy, that when your ex starts to not be there emotionally (i'm guessing it is already happening, because he's clearly not giving all of himself to her if he is still texting emotional drama to you) that eventually she is going to be lonely and unhappy. We already know she has bad boundaries and makes shitty choices when it comes to relationships. You know what happens next. She's going to seek validation elsewhere. Karma is going to take the center ring of this circus. And you, my love, will have already left the tent (hopefully riding a tiger!).

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    2. Dear Phoenix
      SS1 said it all.
      But I will add - tell him to get lost! Actually - don't even respond!
      Don't let him draw you back into his misery. He made all these choices - he can now live with them.
      I know what you mean about the loner bit, but, you have a whole world of sisters here that are your friend and I so admire you. Enjoy the warmer weather with your beautiful girls.
      Big Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    3. I do want to ride a tiger!!

      Thank you, thank you. Your words mean so much to me. I have people who love me and support me. But they don’t really understand the feelings. A sister warrior not only understands that hatred and anger - she feels it right along with me. It makes me feel less alone.

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    4. Gabby, it’s true, I do have my sisters and it is a saving grace. Thank you for your loving words!

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    5. I'm so sorry for all you're going through right now Phoenix. I'm not often on this particular thread but pain is something we all know, no matter how things turned out. And so much of what you're describing sounds like grief. Plain old-fashioned grief that takes a million different disguises. Let yourself grieve. All the loss.
      And of course you find it excruciating that this woman will play any role in your children's lives when the role she already played was to subject them to the worst pain of their young lives. She doesn't deserve them in her life.
      But...we know that life doesn't ask any of us what we want. It just asks that we show up, day after day. With our hearts as open as we're able.
      And you, Phoenix, have taught all of us so much. Which is why it's so heartening to see your army of wounded warriors gather around you to console, to comfort, to remind you of your wings (or stripes? In keeping with the tigers metaphor).
      I've said it before but I'll say it again: When you're going through hell, keep going. This is not the rest of your life. It is just right now.
      And, for what it's worth, I would have nothing to do with your ex?husband unless it's relating to the kids. Do NOT be his therapist, his friend, his confidante. He sacrificed any access to your heart.

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  74. I am such an IDIOT!

    Why am I so hung up on my H admitting that he is still with his girlfriend and that she is the reason he wouldn't try one last time with me and I think she is a big reason for us going toward separation/divorce. WHY? Why can't I let this go?

    Why did his text to me a month ago - about him thinking about us and leaving everything behind - screw me up this much!? Why did I care when he told me that he broke up with her? Why did I have to keep checking and looking to prove that he lied - that she just posted something about him and their love! What do I get out of knowing this and showing him and telling him that he is a liar.

    I was doing OK before he texted me about us. I was really doing OK. No contact, no checking his BS social media crap. Nothing! Ever since then I have been a mess and I have to know the truth. I am ready to just contact her and find out for sure.

    I just hate myself for going down this road again. I sent him a picture of her Facebook from yesterday that is all public like her instagram - for all to see - and the comments make it clear that they are still together. It's been a texting hate shit storm all day since I texted him that - and I created it! Me - I ruined my whole afternoon and evening on this bullshit.

    I don't know if my IC is working at all - I shouldn't be doing any of this. I should be better than this now. I shouldn't be showing him all these weaknesses of mine and making him hate me even more. I don't even want him! I wanted to divorce him a year ago last March! Why am I acting this way?

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    1. Ann, you are not an idiot. Please stop speaking to yourself this way. You are a lovely person with a good heart who has been hurt. I have to run to an appointment, but I'll be back with some thoughts for you later today. Hang in there girl!

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    2. Ann,
      I agree with SS1. Stop being so cruel to yourself. It's like a form of self-harm.
      And secondly, you have to unlearn some habits. You've been almost trained, over the years, to respond to him. He knows which buttons to push. Your job is to make those buttons inactive. To see his actions for exactly what they are: counter-moves intended to manipulate your behaviour, to give him back the power in your relationship. You are re-taking your power and I don't doubt that it has him feeling really destabilized. Good.
      And because you were doing great, you know you can do it again. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and resolve again to not respond to him. And when you fall down, do it again. Until it begins to feel normal. It takes time. So be patient with yourself. Be kind to yourself. Silence that critic that is always telling you you're doing it wrong. You're doing the best you can under incredibly difficult circumstances. That's the truth.

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  75. Ann, betrayal isn’t a one way track, we have many roads to cross before we get to the other side. Please don’t feel bad for having a day where you tell him that you hate him, your allowed to do that, but what you have realised is that it ruined your afternoon, it no doubt didn’t affect your h afternoon so this is a lesson to be learnt. The past 3 days I’ve done exactly what you’ve done and sent horrible texts one after the other to my h, it’s how I was feeling inside and I needed to tell him so. Yes maybe it might have been more productive to write it down on paper and burn it in the back garden but I didn’t and to be fair there has been no harm done I’m sure your h realised why you are hurt and why. And if he doesn’t tough shit he deserved every text. Ann it’s ok to hurt and be angry, counselling is a great place for discussing a way forward but it also brings up difficult conversations. Please stick with the counselling initially it will be painful to dredge up the past but in doing so your paving way for the future. You will be just fine Ann, look after yourself and take care that is the best possible advice I can give you right now .. lots of love xxx

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    1. Thanks Sam A,

      I need to journal more and not text like you advised me! He doesn't care that I am hurt, he doesn't understand why I am hurt because he said I hated him anyway and I wanted him gone. He doesn't understand my feelings at all. I think that is why I texted him - to get him to see that all this hurts me so much. I will stick with my IC. I need to just accept the fact that it is over, I will be better off and stop focusing on him. I just know he is lying! I know it and I know he is still with her and he is trying to make me think that he is not and it is driving me crazy! How do I shut that off and just not care? I don't know.

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  76. Ann, you are not an idiot. It’s natural, it’s normal.

    Here are some thoughts I’ve had: when you find out the person you love is betraying you, it is traumatizing. You see texts and emails and posts and you listen to trickle-truths, and you realize that he had a whole parallel life going on, a life that was based on deceiving you. You realize that many of your realities are false. You begin to question everything. You lose your faith, you don’t know what to believe, and above all, you are terrified of being deceived again.
    So you shift into self-protective hyper-vigilant mode. You must know as much as you can, you must protect yourself from being betrayed and ambushed again. It’s a compulsive behavior, it’s a form of deep anxiety. It’s not healthy, it makes you unhappy, but.....it is very, very understandable. It’s a defense mechanism after emotional trauma. It’s a way to take control when all control has been ripped away from you.
    Take it easy. It will get better. But in the meantime, don’t be too hard on yourself.
    I’ve reached milestones that have helped, I’ve marked progress. I used to let myself open up, just a little, to the ex - only to get slammed by fresh evidence. Eventually I determined that opening myself up, even in friendship, was simply not wise for the forseeable future. He will inevitably bring me pain, and the less contact I have with him the better.
    I used to lash put, vent my anger and my agony on him, restarting a cycle of anger and recrimination. Then I reached a point where I said to myself: “No. He doesn’t get to hear about my real feelings anymore, not even the negative ones. He has lost that right. Access to my true thoughts and emotions is for people I trust; he has forfeited that.”
    And I vented my feelings to trusted people, not him.
    And he hated it.
    They don’t want to let go, either. Pulling us back in, lying to us, hurting us, comforting us, re-establishing emotional intimacy with us - these are all things that reassure them that they still have us on the hook, we still care, they are still important to us. It gives them power and validation.
    It messed him up when I was finally able to shut him out. But it did me a world of good.
    Like I said above, it’s a journey. A marathon. It’s not quick and easy, it is a slow tearing apart of two lives that have been fused for a long time. Be patient with yourself, and celebrate the milestones.
    On that note, I’m feeling much better today, friends. I can feel the real me, the healthier me, starting to reemerge. God bless my beautiful angel warriors for their words of support and comfort! Phoenix is rising again. And every time I fall back into the pit, I learn something new about myself to take with me.

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    1. Phoenix,

      I am so glad you are feeling better!! Thank you for responding. Everything you said made so much sense. You are right, This deep anxiety and hyper-vigilant mode - it is not healthy and it makes me unhappy!

      The best thing for me is definitely no contact. That is when I was feeling OK, and then he sucked me back in with wanting to know if he should leave everything behind and look to me, after everything he put me through with this latest affair.

      I shouldn't care anymore that I am being deceived because I know we are going to be separated soon and divorced. As I said to Sam A. I know he is lying, I know he is still with her. He told me he broke up with her as a lie so I wouldn't think this is all because of her - but I know it is and I want him to see that I know! I think that is why I am obsessed in showing him that I know he is lying!!! But in the end, it doesn't even matter so why am I putting myself through all this!!!

      That description of it being a "slow tearing apart of two lives that have been fused for a long time" hit home. None of this is easy, even if it has to happen.

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    2. Phoenix,
      What you’ve said about the trauma of being betrayed by someone you love and going into self-protective, hyper-vigilant mode is so true. I agree that for me it was/sometimes still is a means to try to exercise control over things that in reality I cannot control. I no longer check up on my husband because I believe he has changed and wants to be faithful. Ultimately, if he chooses not to or chooses to disregard my boundaries, I have a pretty good idea of what my actions will be. That I can control. I stayed tied to the OW for way too long, thinking if i watched her i would be able to guess her next move or predict if she was going to try to contact my husband. When I found out that she was getting divorced, I freaked out. I told my husband I felt like I was waiting for the other shoe to drop and for her to contact him. We had a conversation about what we would do if she did. My reaction and actions if it were to happen are all I can control. It’s really hard and once you know that someone you loved and trusted is capable of hurting and deceiving you, I think it changes your perspective in many ways. I think, as you said, it takes time to start trusting again and to let your guard down. I wish I trusted others the way I trust you ladies here. Honestly, the capacity for compassion in this group is amazing to me.
      Hugs!

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    3. Phoenix, your insights here are do helpful to me too. Especially the bit about the h not deserving to have access to my inner thoughts/ emotions any more. Really giving me food for thought.

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  77. Ann
    I can feel the pain in your words.
    Let me assure you. You are not an idiot.
    This is what these husbands do to us. Make us question and doubt our own sanity.
    You are trying to fight for your marriage and the life you were to have with your husband, the father of your children. This is not something that we throw away so carelessly like them.
    But dear Ann. I know about the checking and wanting confirmation - because that was me towards my ex. He was a compulsive liar to my face and still going behind my back.
    Is your husband's skank just posting what she feels, what comments she's dreaming about or do they include pictures or things that confirm they are still together?
    If they are still together, it seems your husband is continuing to lie and deceive you - he want's to have his cake and eat it too.
    Ann, you haven't created anything. His lies and deception have. Please re-read that. This is all on him. But at some stage, you have to take back your self respect. You have to decide how you want your marriage to be and more importantly - how do you now want to proceed with the rest of your life - with or without him?
    If your IC isn't working, please search until you find someone that you are happy with.
    Big hugs to you Ann
    Gabby xo

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    1. Gabby,

      Thank you for your response. Yes - even though we are not even together anymore - he does do things all the time still for me to question my own sanity.

      I was fighting for the life we were supposed to have - that is so wise. Even though I know it is over - I think that is why I am grasping on to all this - for the life we were supposed to have and I don't want to throw it all away even though I know I have to.

      She is posting openly about him. It is clear. When he told me they broke up on March 21, on March 23 she posted on Instagram -"I wasn't looking when I found you, but you turned out to be everything I was looking for" with a blue heart. That is their sign for their love. A blue heart on all their stupid shit. And then the FB post that I showed him - Her cousin told her she looked happy and she responded with the same sentiment - "I had long healed and started to be happy with myself, and then without looking I found extra happiness. Yeah, now I'm happier than before" with a blue heart. That was last Wednesday when this all started. It is clear as day and he still tells me they are broken up. And then he made a new ugly profile pic and she red hearted loved it and she made a new one of her and he red hearted loved hers - that doesn't look like two people who had just broken up. All this social media stuff is so utterly stupid! I am so glad I am off it and I will get off it all now for good. You are right, I need to take back my self respect because right now I feel really low. And - I got my H all mad with my snooping so now he is being rude and mean to me and bringing up all other stuff to add to everything else. I don't need this.

      I'll keep up with my IC. To be honest - I probably am not putting in as much into it as I should - I am afraid to really open up and start crying and going nuts. But I will keep at it.

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  78. Phoenix, you come here to this group and give us your all, your heart so please don’t ever think you can’t have days when everything feels so shit , bloody hell we all have them. I’m super angry that your ex h is still texting you his sad ass shit, He’s well and truly fucked up and he knows it, maybe a text stating that might give him an iota of sympathy but no he can’t do that because that would mean him taking responsibility and being mature which he clearly isn’t. To think he could ever make a successful relationship with this slutty little skank is ludicrous. you my dear will continue to heal until you are ready to not give this man a second
    Thought. I’m glad you didn’t text back because what could you reply to that??? He’s clutching at straws. I hope by the time you read this you are well and truly through this shitfest, there will be more to come on your journey of healing Phoenix but please come here when your feeling good or not so good, we love you sweetheart., I’m just imagining you riding out of the circus on a tiger lol hillarious ss1 xxxxx

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  79. Let’s all ride tigers - it’s fitting. We can thank SS for another magnificent metaphor. And I can add “PT Barnum” to the list of contact names I occasionally plug into my phone to represent the ex when I’m feeling hostile - includes names like “Judas” and “Loki”. Not particularly mature, I’ll grant you, but it helps me blow off some steam.
    All of you gave me such great advice and support, so naturally....I blew it. I talked to him last night for a while. Stupid, I know. But it started with conflict and simmered down to sad talk, which has become the new occasional pattern. Well, it beats the old pattern of just blowing up at each other. He talked about loving me and missing me, and how miserable and sorry he is. He brought up every sad, pitiful thing he could - broke, in debt, alone, suffering from cancer with no insurance....
    And as usual, I sat there caught between sympathy and skepticism. Broke? Yeah, I believe it. I don’t ask much child support, and he usually pays it, so I’ll give him props for that. But I’m afraid to ask where he gets it sometimes. Such a smart man, and so terrible with money. He says he’s about to have his phone cut off and won’t be reachable. That will be great to explain to the girls. He tells me they won’t notice, they don’t need him, he is secondary, tertiary. I tell him not to screw up any more relationships with that crap. They definitely need him. Especially the older one, who’s been showing signs of anxiety.
    Alone? Hmph. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows what’s going on with the skank this week? I know for a fact that he and my kids were at her place this weekend and last weekend. He says it’s only to see their brother, but I will never take his word on anything like that again.
    Cancer? That’s the one that gets me. Y’all, my common sense tells me it’s just not true, it’s a ploy for sympathy. But I still struggle with “what if”. How do you confirm that sort of thing? I don’t have time right now to go with him to a doctor, even if he were willing to let me. Would a prescription medication be verification enough? I don’t know. True that he has no insurance- that’s what happens when you stab your primary insurance holder in the back, and then lose your job. But of course, I still hate to think of him sick and without insurance.
    As the mother of his kids, it seems like there should be some way to verify his health, finances, and employment status, if for no other reason than to make decisions about child support. But to my knowledge, there’s not. Of course, I told him he could skip child support and pay the phone bill. He said he was going to give me every cent he had. At which point I should have just said “Ok then!” But of course, I didn’t. Ugh.
    I’m not ashamed of being a good person. I’m not ashamed of still caring about the person I used to love, the father of my children. But I wish I had more complete information so I could make decisions that were compassionate - but smart.
    On the bright side, the pain and toxicity about him and the skank has receded again, now that I have my kids back. Please, God, let it last. It is horrible to suffer those feelings. I’m feeling stronger. “No more monsters, I can breathe again.”
    How is everyone? Gabby, how are things going with your kids? Ann, it is excruciating to see that crap on social media. But it does serve the purpose of reminding you that he is not to be trusted. That’s a lesson that is just hard for us to learn. Our brains get it. Our hearts don’t.
    Sam, anything new on the divorce process? SS, how are you holding up, are you sticking to your no-date policy? Beach Girl, Steam, other sisters out there - how are we this week?

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    1. Hi Phoenix
      Thanks for asking after all of us. My God Phoenix. You are one amazing woman. To have that level of compassion in your situation is such amazing strength. You really are a good person.
      Me on the other hand....I have thought about this, so this is how I feel now. If the ex was to get sick or injured - I wouldn't care. Where was his care factor for me and our kids when he was going off living his fantasy life not caring for the pain he caused and the disruption to our lives? He only cares for himself, emotionally, physically and financially. All the promises he made he has reneged on, so I have removed myself from feeling anything nice towards him. I still can't stand him at this stage, but, I don't know how to describe it. Whilst I think about it daily, it doesn't bother me as much as it did. My marriage seems such a distant nightmare memory that sometimes seems to be fading as my growth away from such a toxic person blocks out the happy times. All those years with him seem to be fading in such a short time. What the hell is happening?

      As for my kids. They're all doing well thanks. They really see their father for what he is, and come back from being with him seeing he hasn't changed and is an angry, hypocritical person. I still encourage them to have a relationship with him..... I could kick myself sometimes for allowing this, but the sad thing is they have said - not often, but they have said they wish they had a really nice faithful dad that didn't get angry, wasn't controlling or such a hypocrite and didn't have such a big ego. But that's the ex. He won't admit to having a multitude of problems and buries them all into his life of lies and betrayals and sex with easy willing women.
      I really am happy and content with myself and my kids and my friends and my animals.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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  80. Phoenix the reason why I love you is because of your compassion and kindness. It’s nothing to be ashamed of in fact it should be celebrated : ) .. the reason I’ve stayed glued to this site daily for the past 5 years is because of all the kindness and understanding we share, I learn so much from you ladies I feel well privilodged to be part of this group.

    Right so as I mentioned on another post my h is going on a spiritual pilgrimage tomorrow for two weeks and the last few days he has been at mine spending time with the kids and trying to get my forgiveness before he goes. It’s a one in a lifetime pilgrimage and I’m glad he’s going I hope for him he can learn from it and be a better person. Again time will tell, I havnt mentioned anything the last few days I’m gonna wait till he comes back before I speak to him about us and practicalities. The kids have enjoyed having their dad here the last few days and they’ve had lots of fun.

    I’m gonna have some time just for me the next couple of weeks I feel tired of it all right now want to concentrate on keeping myself healthy through food and exercise, catch up with girlfriends and not worry about anything..

    Xxx

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    1. Hi Sam A
      I hope you can find the peace you are looking for. Enjoy the break from it all and have fun with your girlfriends.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    2. Good idea, Sam A. It's a great opportunity for some 'time off' or 'time out' for you. Enjoy it and give yourself a good rest.

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  81. Thanks guys.,the sun is shining so I’m happy . Wishing everyone a lovely day xx

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  82. Spending the day trying to find my tiger. restless. Getting used to being on my own again. Wanting to spend time with someone, but knowing I need to spend it on my own. Resisting the urge to... what. To drink because I'm bored or because it is a nice day and I've finished the yard work and I'm lonely. My friends are all busy. I made a commitment to myself to not drink for the next two weeks. To break habits formed when hanging out with new guy (now ex new guy, lol). Alcohol is so dangerous for me, given my mother. So the fact that I have to fight the urge to have some wine, tells me its time to break with it for a while. Terrifying really.
    In the same vein, I am resisting the urge to get right back into online dating. I need to give myself time to really find my feet. I need to detox from this most recent thing. I don't need to do what I did last time, which is jump in as a distraction. I know it feels really validating to get all that attention and to be occupied with flirting etc. I also know I don't have the bandwidth for it at the moment. SO busy with volunteering and retooling my business, my kids, big doings in my yard.
    And here's this other thing. I'm embarrassed to admit. There is a guy I've got my eye on. In my volunteer work. Actually, was interested over a year ago, in getting to know him better. And although he sometimes seemed interested, I could not figure out his situation and he seemed to be in a relationship (possible with his partner, he's a police officer). And so I didn't have any interest in touching that with a ten foot pole. But. Lately, he's been ...around. Went out of his way to support an event is was leading for the volunteer thing. May not mean anything, but then again, it feels like we are doing a slow circling around being attracted to each other. He's said flirtatious things to me. I've responded positively to them. I sent up a small smoke signal that I was open. And waited. It was so, so hard. I'm impatient, lol. And he responded positively. And now I have to wait again. I just need to let things unfold. He's funny and sweet. I believe he was an alcoholic but has been sober for 7 years. Has a great career and recently took and passed a test to become a sergeant and a detective. He at least appears to be working through some of his own stuff right now. Said in one meeting (the volunteer stuff) how hard it was for him to ask for help, but that he needed it now. I about melted in my chair. Did I mention he's also got that sexy no hair thing, is very fit ( a lot of our volunteer activities involve running and cycling etc.) and the cutest little gap in his teeth? He's also incredibly kind. Cares for and befriends the people in the inner city community where he polices. Gives his all to the veterans we serve in the volunteer group. Says things to me like my smile lights up the room. Yes I'm crushing hard, lol. And he is such a flirt. I have to assume that its just flirtation and nothing with any more intent behind it. I'm trying to pay attention to how much this is potentially just another distraction for me. I'm also not rushing to take any action. Again just trying to give him room and me room to feel something if that's going to happen. And a chance for me to learn patience. I feel like I actually want to wait and see what happens here before moving on to the next thing. And I recognize that it might take some long time. I'm really OK with that. I think I needed the relationship I just got out of to teach me that I can wait for the right thing. I don't have to rush or settle. And that I'm not gonna die old and alone.

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  83. Part 2
    The other part of this is, I go into self doubt. What if the age gap is too much (i'm 5 years older than him)? What if I'm not pretty enough? I was at a crossfit session for the volunteer thing this week. We always do group photos. I've been hanging on to a few extra LBS since xmas and not loving it but also not in existential crisis over it either. But. The photo. You could see my arms, which look great, and you could see my tum rolling just a bit over my leggings as the shirt was snug. We always post these event pictures on social media for the larger membership to see and I had a few moments of discomfort. I have the skills to photoshop it. But I knew that was the wrong choice. The person who sent me the photo would know. What kind of example would I be setting for my daughter or the other women in the group etc. So. I posted it. And am now just letting it go out to the universe. But it is part of the self doubt that creeps in post rejection from the guy I just broke up with and fear of not being enough for the guy I am currently crushing on. I'm so absurd sometimes. The thing I need to remember is that I am awesome and honestly, even with my elaborate luggage set, I am a catch. Intelligent and thoughtful and with a giant heart and also ready for sex pretty much all the time. Hopefully some smart funny thoughtful giant-hearted guy will get that t some point.
    I know dating and my psychological gyrations are a bit out of place here, but I needed to talk it out and my sister is busy. Thanks for listening!

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  84. PS I mowed my lawn and fixed my back door so the dog can't escape anymore. Feeling accomplished. And a bit sunburned, hallelujah!
    PPS I did a long post mortem on the end of my relationship with former new guy, which you can read on my blog, as I am not sure it fits here on BWC. http://iamthepillowgirl.com/2018/04/02/gone-solo/

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  85. Gabby, you are a very good person. I understand your hostility so well, and I think it protects us and helps us heal.
    And that phenomenon you describe, of all the years with him seeming to shrink as you grow away from him - YES! I have felt that too. Incredible,since I spent half my life with him. I suppose it is another way our brains insulate us and help us to move on. Animals - I love my animals! My pain-in-the-butt dog and my “divorce cat” have cuddled me through some rough times.
    Sam, honey, I am so glad to hear that you are taking time to be good to yourself. If anyone deserves it, you do. I hope that spiritual pilgrimage makes him see how thankful he should be that you are the Mather of his kids.
    Have y’all listened to the lyrics to that song by Kesha, “Praying”? It destroys me. In a good way. Cathartic, when I sing it.
    “Well, you almost had me fooled.
    Told me that I was nothing without you
    And after everything you’ve done
    I can thank you for how strong I have become
    You brought the flames and you put me through hell
    I had to learn how to fight for myself
    and we both know all the truth I could tell
    I’ll just say this is I wish you farewell
    I hope you’re somewhere praying
    I hope your soul is changing
    I hope you find your peace, falling on your knees, praying.
    I’m proud of who I am
    No more monsters, I can breathe again
    And you said that that I was done.
    But you were wrong and now the best is yet to come
    I can make it on my own
    I don’t need you, I’ve found a strength I’ve never known
    I’ll bring thunder, I’ll bring rain
    When I’m finished they won’t even know your name....
    Sometimes, I pray for you at night
    Someday, maybe you’ll see the light
    Some say, in life, you’re gonna get what you give
    But some things only God can forgive...
    I hope you find your peace, falling on your knees, praying...”

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    1. Wow, these words. So much. When I read the things people write, I am wondering what they went through. This is really powerful.

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  86. So writing and music - and my kids and family , of course - were what got me through the last 2 1/2 years. There were so many songs that helped me process and express my feelings during the whole ordeal. I’ve been playing around with the idea of recording a “Divorce Songbook” for myself, covering all those songs that represented the stages of shock, pain, bitterness, anger, grief, regret, inspiration, and hope. I’ve got a list of 18 songs right now, ranging from folk to country to broadway to pop to rock, because that’s the kind of freak I am. Sometimes in the car I play karaoke accompaniment to them and sing my heart out. :-)
    Any particular songs that helped you work through your feelings?

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    1. So many songs. An dall over the place too. Phoenix, if you record these, self publish in iTunes and I'll buy the whole list :)
      'Remain' by MuteMath became my survival anthem. The refrain goes:
      Just keep on trying
      Just keep fighting
      Just keep going
      Just keep surviving
      Just keep walking
      Just keep breathing
      Just keep holding
      Just keep believing
      I I sung this many times out loud and in my head out running.
      More lately, I've liked their song 'Marching to the End"
      I like ColdPlay's"Army of One" because instead of framing it about a spouse etc I framed it as about me. I'm fighting for me. It worked for me and was another good running song.
      For all my girl angst there's Daughter and her song "Landfill"
      It goes like this:
      Throw me in a landfill
      Don't think about the consequences
      Throw me in the dirt pit
      Don't think about the choices that you make
      Throw me in the water
      Don't think about the splash I will create
      Leave me at the altar
      Knowing all the things you just escaped

      Push me out to sea
      On a little boat that you made
      Out of the evergreen that you helped your father cut away
      Leave me on the tracks
      To wait until the morning train arrives
      Don't you dare look back
      Walk away
      Catch up with the sunrise

      'Cause this is torturous electricity
      Between both of us and this is
      Dangerous 'cause I want you so much
      But I hate your guts
      I hate you

      So leave me in the cold
      Wait until the snow covers me up
      So I cannot move
      So I'm just embedded in the frost
      Then leave me in the rain
      Wait until my clothes cling to my frame
      Wipe away your tear stains
      Thought you said you didn't feel pain

      Well this is torturous electricity
      Between both of us and this is
      Dangerous, 'cause I want you so much
      But I hate your guts. I want you so much
      But I hate your guts.
      Well this is torturous
      Electricity between both of us
      And this is dangerous 'cause I want you so much
      But I hate your guts
      I want you so much but I hate your guts

      ...And her song 'Winter' .Actually her whole album "If you leave" fantastic for feeling all my angsty girl angst. And her song "Love" is absolutely an ode to a cheating lover. Trigger city. I had to stop listening eventually, but holy shit, it let me feel for a while.
      Stateless has a song "Bloodstream" wow.
      One of my favorite f - u fight songs is also 'red lights" by the Dirty Heads.
      And then when I want to just roll in emotion, I listen to some classical music. Ralph Vaughn Williams is one of my favorites. So rolling and English and wow.

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    2. Excellent idea, Phoenix. Yes, I was even thinking of writing a musical based on this weird soap opera-type situation...
      I would love to contribute to your song collection. Here are a few that got me: Formidable (French), Jolene (ha!), Just you wait Enry Iggins (My Fair Lady), Chris & Stevie (Damien Dempsey), Still Standing (Elton John), Bambola (Italian)...
      Please let us know if you are making a song book. It is a fantastic idea!

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  87. “Elaborate luggage set”. SS, you wordsmith, you kill me.
    I take issue with the idea that your talk of dating and your “psychological gyrations” are out of place here. This is the “Separating/Divorcing” page after all, and very wise of Elle to create it, since some of our issues, and the way we are handling them, are a bit different. Dating issues are definitely a thing for us. So is doubting ourselves, and our own attractiveness.
    And if what we write on here doesn’t qualify as psychological gyrations, then Good Lord, what does?! :-)
    Here’s my confession: since the skank is 18 years younger than I am, I find myself angsting about looking older, something that never bothered me before. Damn them both, anyway, for making the aging process that much harder, and may it happen the same way for her when she is in her forties. I never used to wear much makeup, but lately I don’t leave the house without it. I’ve spent time and money I couldn’t afford on makeup and makeup strategies. In a way it’s been fun - I learned to contour, and used an eyelash curler for the first time in my life. But I don’t want it to consume me and make me unhappy.
    The sensible thing, of course, is to do as you do and get plenty of exercise.
    Long pause......
    ANYWAY, you are indeed a catch, and don’t you forget it. Your cop sounds adorable. And you are very wise to take. It. Slow. No rush. No urgency.
    I am, as I have said, a loner and an introvert. But I have also experienced those times when I am filled to bursting with restlessness and with yearning for....something. Someone. A person to hug, to share laughs and small irritations, to lean on and to love. Someone who is FOR me, always on my side, Team Phoenix. I miss that. And yet, I also cling to my independence and my space. I want company, and I want to be alone.
    What’s up with that?
    It’s so tempting, as you said, to seek solace impulsively, in the wrong places. We are smarter than that. Or at least, we try to be, don’t we?
    Gonna go read your blog now.

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    1. Phoenix, thanks for this. I really needed to be seen and hard and sympathized with, with this dating stuff.
      The younger woman thing is brutal, isn't it? The skank in my case was 15 years younger. So I feel you. Because how do you compete? I ask myself. I tried so hard to be more "youthful" exercise, lotions and potions, botox, laser, sexy underwear.(there's probably a post in there...)
      I was unexpectedly triggered as all hell yesterday.
      I was at an event with the volunteer group. Some of us, not all of us (its a big group so typically it is a mix) my LEO - law enforcement officer - was not present. After, a few of us went to brunch. As we sat, enjoying food and talking etc. the couple who are the team captain and communications director (and whom I like very much), had been looking through pictures on their phone. Spotted someone and said, "oh, we need to introduce her to LEO (meaning my police officer).' Holy fecking hell did I have a panic attack. She's younger than me and pretty and my head tells me there is NO EFFING WAY I can compete. And I know this couple had no idea that a) i'm now single and b) I've been carrying a little torch for the LEO. But OUch ouch ouch. An dI recognized that the panic attack and adrenaline and fear were both about my experience of infidelity at the hands of a much younger woman and my former spouse and about my old stories of being mousy and not pretty enough etc. it was still uncomfortable and painful as fuck. I resisted the urge to barf out my pain right then and say "please don't. I just got him to notice that I'm a girl, without having to compete with a younger woman." But I had the old obsessive thoughts. Wanting to do something, wanting to make that thing not happen. etc. etc. etc. SO familiar. So I took no action. Took some time to meditate and talk myself down. Of course I was triggered. Who, in my shoes, wouldn't be? I did nothing destructive. I did not, in my panic, blurt something that was bad boundaries to this couple, nor did I, in my discomfort, send a text to my LEO about anything. I don't want to push, go to fast etc. there. And I know that he's going to have many women interested in him. Just a fact. And I can ruin my days and nights fretting over it. Or I can go back to trusting that if it is going to work out, it will (with appropriate nudges in the right direction from me and pauses to let us both feel things). And if he's put off by the age difference (which is not a big deal) then he's not the guy for me. etc etc.
      I've got to stop weaving stories in my head though. I tend to romanticize, think up scenarios and how I'll act or how he'll act etc. and I get myself attached to an idea that doesn't exist. This is a hangover (all puns intended) of being the child of an alcoholic. He is adorable and I need to work with myself not to get too attached before there is anything real happening. And remember that I have survived some tragic shit. I'll survive if my crush on a guy never goes anywhere.
      And I'm a little better today. Especially after reading your response Phoenix. Thank you. My brain is still a little frenetic, so after writing, I am going to make some lists and knuckle down. It's also beautiful, so a run may be in order.

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  88. Love reading into your life ss1, it’s like reading a book but better. I think being patient is a great idea, enjoy the flirting for a little while longer that’s the best bit : ). It’s so exciting keep us posted ..., big hugs my friend xxx

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    1. Thanks Sam A. I am trying to stay playful, but I tend toward tragedy. Learned early. I need to remember that I'm fine and everything is fine. And like I tell me daughter, things that seem to be about us, and people's actions often have very little or nothing to do with us at all.
      Hugs to you too! xoxoxo

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  89. Phoenix I’m well proud that you can contour, it looks proper complicate lol. And you know what I’ve never used a bloody eyelash curler
    : ) .. I sometimes feel like I’ve been cocooned nowadays people are on boob jobs, Botox, even skinny injections ??? I know wtf there is such a thing!!! Little old me is happy with my eyebrow tint and coverage of my greys.. but like you Phoenix I feel like I’ve aged more this last year I doubt it has anything to do with h just more that I’m bloody ageing 42 next. I’m going ok with getting older kinda like it in some ways, others may be not like the wobbly belly and the need to wear glasses nearly all the time . But I still love me even if no one else does : ) I’m kidding I’m blessed for such lovely friends..

    My songs I use fir my running have changed over time when I was very sad following d day 1 I would run to the saddest songs ever not any more I have the most upbeat ones. I do like the divorce album though Phoenix great idea : ) ..

    Update on slimming world lost 8 lbs last week which felt good let’s see how I’ve done this week at my weigh in tomorrow.. slimming world or fat club as I like to call it is a bunch of emotional eaters (which I am) we’ve all got issues it’s clear to see but I wanted to change my eating habits to eat healthy even when I’m sad, angry or happy.. its like an achievement something to strive for and makes me feel good too.. win.. win.., love you ladies .. I’m gonna read your blog too ss1 xxx

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  90. So we are inching our way to a true separation. We have a few weeks of "in home separation" under our belts. We each take turns as to who is the parent and home operations manager on duty. There is still alot of interaction but atleast I don't have to play mommy to him. That has been the main sticking point in our marraige. I am always behind him with reminders and to do's. All I ever needed was for him to take care of sh$t. We probably wouldn't have had such a marital disintegration if that was happening. He also has found a reasonably priced living situation lined up for June. We are waiting until school is out to have this land on our kids' doorstep. I really wish things could be different. If he could or would humble himself enough to have full accountability and quit acting like he was the victim, I wouldn't have asked for this. But he expects me to fall back in love with him when he has shown such self centeredness. And then he claims that it is just that I am controlling or wanting to call the shots. He looks sad and stares at me with a hang dog expression. I feel badly but at the same time, I know I have cut him way too much slack and he has taken advantage. I really can't live my fullest life with someone who can't give more to me and wants to be emotionally taken care of. All he has to do is ask himself and me, "what can I do to make things right for you." I know his failure to be able to do that comes from what he learned from his narcissist father, not because of who he is. But I can't sacrifice myself because of it. It breaks my heart and I love him, but he can't do what I need him to do.

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  91. Hey Phonex! I need to listen to more music. But I found this one when I was really angry and it helps to listen to it.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M6JnQbQbzdo

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  92. So now.....my H has been gone for almost a month. He comes here to see the kids. It’s fine for now. It’s only a few days, I’ve kept my distance as usual. on top of him having his own account, Before he left he transferred $5,000 of the tax return to his account without telling me and last week when I tried to pay a bill with his account - he got a new debit card and changed his account number. He says the $5,000 is for the mediation and he was going to tell Me about switching all his account info. He is planning for his life on his own and wants to up his credit score. Wants to be in control of his future.

    So he wants to “meet” while he is home to go over everything - bills and agree on things. I don’t want to go anywhere with him. Why do we have to meet? He wants to have it all settled and all agreed upon before we go into mediation. I understand the need to prepare and have the right paperwork and have an idea of what we are doing. But we don’t know the laws and the mediator will take us through it. I hate this whole Fucking thing.

    I gave him my draft budget and we start talking about small details and then he says that he wants us to have lawyers! This is the first I have heard of this and I thought we would just do mediation by ourselves. So of coarse that sets me off! On top of all the other shit he has pulled, now we are getting lawyers! But I’m just fighting him and that is why we need lawyers!!! I just hate him! He is a completely different person Since he met his Lastin slut and she has taken hold of him. Now it’s all HIS money, he has to protect his money from me. His money that he worked so hard for and I never helped him out when I could have. I should have worked and made $ to help. But this is while I had Anemia! He always brings up how bad it was and how bad the doctors said it was for years and I didn’t realize how bad it was, but now he blames me for not having a clue and getting a job? I don’t have a job or a career now so I have no right to dictate what he does with HIS money. Get a job, he tells me. I told him to fuck off and tell his girlfriend to get a job.

    I don’t know how we are going to get through this. If we get lawyers, it’ll take me a long time to save for mine and his will be expensive too. It’s so hard to keep emotions out of it when I constantly feel like I’m getting deceived at every angle and screwed over. That he wants to just wash his hands of me so quick and have his own life, he is so mad about it, that he wants to be rid of me and our constant fights! I am such a bad evil person full of hate that he wants out if his stupid life. Like all of a sudden he is the one who wants out when I have wanted out since Nov. 2016 when I was treated for Anemia! Now all of a sudden since he has a stupid girlfriend he wants it done and to be rid of me, rid of this house, rid of all the bills, rid of this life we had. We ended up Fighting in front of the kids, if we go out like last time we will fight anyway and embarrass ourselves in front of strangers.

    I just Fucking hate him so much, his stupid Fucking lock screen on his phone is his dumb bitch girlfriend. Does he really have to rub it in this much? I’m sure the kids have seen it.

    I don’t want lawyers, it will just drag this out longer! I want it done and I want him gone from my life.

    So I think I just need to say as little as possible, not let anything bother me, not create any strife about anything and just keep quiet. That is the only way out if this that I can see. Can I do that and still not get screwed in this Mediation? I’ll do anything at this point.

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  93. So now.....my H has been gone for almost a month. He comes here to see the kids. It’s fine for now. It’s only a few days, I’ve kept my distance as usual.

    On top of him having his own account, Before he left he transferred $5,000 of the tax return to his account without telling me and last week when I tried to pay a bill with his account - he got a new debit card and changed his account number. He says the $5,000 is for the mediation and he was going to tell Me about switching all his account info. He is planning for his life on his own and wants to up his credit score. Wants to be in control of his future.

    So he wants to “meet” while he is home to go over everything - bills and agree on things. I don’t want to go anywhere with him. Why do we have to meet? He wants to have it all settled and all agreed upon before we go into mediation. I understand the need to prepare and have the right paperwork and have an idea of what we are doing. But we don’t know the laws and the mediator will take us through it. I hate this whole Fucking thing.

    I gave him my draft budget and we start talking about small details and then he says that he wants us to have lawyers! This is the first I have heard of this and I thought we would just do mediation by ourselves. So of coarse that sets me off! On top of all the other shit he has pulled, now we are getting lawyers! But I’m just fighting him and that is why we need lawyers!!! I just hate him! He is a completely different person Since he met his Lastin slut and she has taken hold of him. Now it’s all HIS money, he has to protect his money from me. His money that he worked so hard for and I never helped him out when I could have. I should have worked and made $ to help. But this is while I had Anemia! He always brings up how bad it was and how bad the doctors said it was for years and I didn’t realize how bad it was, but now he blames me for not having a clue and getting a job? I don’t have a job or a career now so I have no right to dictate what he does with HIS money. Get a job, he tells me. I told him to fuck off and tell his girlfriend to get a job.

    I don’t know how we are going to get through this. If we get lawyers, it’ll take me a long time to save for mine and his will be expensive too. It’s so hard to keep emotions out of it when I constantly feel like I’m getting deceived at every angle and screwed over. That he wants to just wash his hands of me so quick and have his own life, he is so mad about it, that he wants to be rid of me and our constant fights! I am such a bad evil person full of hate that he wants out if his stupid life. Like all of a sudden he is the one who wants out when I have wanted out since Nov. 2016 when I was treated for Anemia! Now all of a sudden since he has a stupid girlfriend and he knows he won’t loose everything he wants it done and to be rid of me, rid of this house, rid of all the bills, rid of this life we had. We ended up Fighting in front of the kids, if we go out like last time we will fight anyway and embarrass ourselves in front of strangers.

    I just Fucking hate him so much, his stupid Fucking lock screen on his phone is his dumb bitch girlfriend. Does he really have to rub it in this much? I’m sure the kids have seen it.

    I don’t want lawyers, it will just drag this out longer! I want it done and I want him gone from my life.

    So I think I just need to say as little as possible, not let anything bother me and just keep quiet. That is the only way out if this that I can see. I’ll do anything at this point.

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  94. I am going to need some hand holding this coming week. We are telling the kids about the separation in a few days (waiting until after my daughter's graduation) and my H is moving out that weekend. Today my son discovered that a beloved craft he made was accidentally thrown out. He threw such a heartbreaking fit that made me realize that next week this time, the heartbreak will be 1000 times worse. I can't believe this is going to happen to my wonderful, joyful children. I so don't want it to happen but I know I have no choice. My H isnt going to stand up for me and rise to the occasion. He is too damaged. His best attempts aren't good enough. I would do anything to not go down the route, except sell my self out. I hate him for how he has failed me and our family.

    -MBS

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  95. My original post got lost. The separation is starting next weekend. Waiting until my daughter's graduation is over. I can't believe our children will have to face this blow. This week both kids had typical kid heartbreak--daughter had stuff with friends and son had a beloved project get accidentally broken then thrown out by mistake. Seeing them be so crushed broke my heart, and even worse, I realized this pain would be 1000 times less than finding out we are splitting up. I hadn't been thinking about this part until now. I don't know how I am going to get through the week. I still know that this is the right step and they will be okay and they have two parents who love them well. Still.... Any advice for helping the kids through this? How did you all do it?

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