Friday, May 8, 2015

From the Vault: I'm About to Wage War Over My Boundaries

I just discovered this never-published post that I wrote in 2012. I didn't post it because it seemed to have little to do with infidelity. Now, of course, I can see that boundary setting has TONS to do with infidelity. The good news is that, while I recognize the "me" in this post, she's not around so much now. The new "me" is so much better at this stuff. Whattaya know, huh? Change is possible...the war is won.

I'm severely pissed off these days.
At my husband. At my 12-year-old daughter. At my thousand-year-old cat. At the government. The list goes on.
I'm sick – sick to death, I tell you! – of feeling disrespected and unappreciated. I cook, I clean, I pick up cat feces that always miss the litter box by just enough. Does anyone thank me? Appreciate me? Treat me with the kindness and compassion I deserve??
Nooooooo...
Including...me.
And that, of course, is the problem.
No-one can take advantage of you without your permission, my mother often reminded me as I lamented yet another situation from which I couldn't seem to extricate myself.
Of course, like generations of daughters before and yet-to-come, I shrugged it off. After all, what the hell did my mother know?
Turns out, quite a lot. And given her own experience with betrayal, I should definitely have listened a bit more closely to her advice.
If anyone knew boundaries, it was my mother.
Me? Not so much.
But boundaries aren't just for keeping ourselves from volunteering too often at the school bake sale. They're an integral part of healing from betrayal. They're an integral part of living a healthy life.
They are, in fact, like a rulebook for how to live our lives. They remind us that we matter...even when other aren't treating us like we do. Make that especially when others aren't treating us like we do.
Wendy Strgar, whom I've cited on this site before, notes in this blog post that "boundaries are the truest measure of how we love ourselves."
And I haven't been loving myself too well these days (or, come to think of it, ever).
Maybe you haven't been either.
Instead, my boundaries are like Silly String. They're hang in threads...and no-one takes them seriously.
The result, of course, is that I do a whole lot of stuff for everyone else and very little for myself. Which (see above) makes me really pissed off.
Well, I'm tired of feeling pissed off.
So I'm spending some time figuring out where my boundaries are. No easy task. In some cases, they don't exist so I'm creating them. Based on nothing more than a feeling in my gut that advises me whether or not what I'm about to do or say "yes" to makes me feel yucky (that's a technical term).
I can't always feel it. I've become something of an expert at sending that little gut feeling to her room where she's completely silent. And so I'm learning to invite her back out and to offer up her advice.
When I listen, it's usually something like this:
"Why are you picking up your son's backpack when you've told him REPEATEDLY to do it himself. Instead, let him know that if he doesn't put them away himself, it'll be tossed in a bin in the garage. And that's where he can find his homework next time he's looking for it."
Wow. My gut is a bitch you don't want to mess with.
And while I don't want to be a bitch, I do want to be respected. Which is, sometimes, the same thing.

55 comments:

  1. Boundaries is a great one for me, there are many a day when I feel like all I do is domestic and childcare chores. Feeling like a mum to both my children and husband. I battle on a daily basis to try and get the respect I god damn deserve, sometimes I win others I lose, it seems like a constant battle and that's exhausting in itself. I must admit I demand respect more from my h since his betrayal I deserve respect as does he and if we respect each other hopefully the kids will follow suit, fingers crossed.

    Your right Elle boundaries definetly relate to betrayal it was boundaries that got me through the darkest days following d day, boundaries are protection a blanket almost to stop yourself from getting mistreated in anyway.

    I love the way you make words into a sense of meaning Elle. Thankyou again for your wisdom. Xx

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  2. Wow, I loved this piece. My aunt likes to say when I complain about how much help I give my Narcissitic mother that no one holds a gun to my head to do it. Priceless. Boundaries are about how much we love ourselves was the best idea. Why don't they teach this in parenting 101 for those of us who came from dysfunctional families?! It is a long long road to evolve and many of us keep repeating the same mistakes until one day you get the aha moment of self matters more than any thing. Thanks

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  3. I love this: "an expert at sending that little gut feeling to her room where she's completely silent. And so I'm learning to invite her back out and to offer up her advice" and I needed to hear it ... I call it "speaking my truth" and I found I have the greatest anxiety when I do not speak my truth, when I do not invite that gut feeling back out from the room.. Recommended by our marriage counselor I am reading The Divorce Remedy… It may be statistically the way to bring the husband back to you who is floundering… Yet there are parts of it which just don't feel true to me. I must speak my truth… And when I do… It may mean that I will be suffering circumstances ie loss of husband ... And it is scary as hell, yet it is more frightening to hold my truth inside.

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    1. Melissa,

      You post bought to mind a saying from way back in the 1960's::

      ""To thine own-self, be true.""

      I do not remember who first said it but that does not really matter. You wrote that parts of a book just did not feel true to you and I got it. Funny how a sentence in the middle of a post can mean so much. HIMSELF and I both have individual therapist. HIS therapist is currently doing our couples counseling. HIS therapist methods are just not doing it for me -- just does not feel true.

      Thanks Melissa, just that one sentence made me realize -- I need to find another couples counselor. HIMSELF will undoubtedly continue his individual counseling with this man but as for the couples sessions -- I'm OUT...

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    2. SilentScream, you are welcome ... You know ... and you will feel when it is right. Keep us posted :-)

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    3. Silent Scream,
      An individual therapist should NOT also be doing your couples counselling. I don't know of any reputable therapists that would think that's okay. He's either HIMSELF's individual therapist or your couples therapist. Not both. And it sounds as if this isn't working for you at all. You're right -- find yourself a couples counsellor who doesn't have any professional loyalty to one of you over the other.

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    4. Absolutely. No reputable therapist would do that.

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    5. Thanks all !!!

      I'm scheduled for couple’s session later today but I have sent the therapist a fax letting him know I will no longer be joining HIMSELF and his individual therapist in any future "couples" sessions. I get so much 'lift' from everyone here and this was a huge 'lift' that I needed to move forward. I just was not 'feeling' this therapist. (Technical grand-kids terminology 'feeling' )

      Getting the advice that HIS individual therapist should not be our couple’s therapist is just what I needed to know.

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  4. Oh Elle, such a poignant post again!

    I have always felt a duty as a daughter, sister, wife, mother and friend to behave appropriately. That's to say always put others first, even if it didn't suit me or feel right. If ever I did say no, I always felt unkind or unhelpful or sometimes was even told I was! I simply thought that if I tried to keep everyone happy, did favours, looked after other peoples kids, dropped everything to be there for my parents, it didn't matter that it was inconvenient at the time, somehow everything would be fine. I didn't know how to say no or where to draw the line. Madness! I ended up unhappy (although I hadn't realised just how unhappy until D Day) angry, frustrated, exhausted.
    Boundaries were an early topic for conversation during my individual and couples counselling. I thought I had to be available for everyone all the time, saying no was impossible. DIscovering that actually boundaries are the thing that keeps us safe and stops us from being disrespected was like a light bulb moment for me. My initially reaction was to just remove myself from everything, that way I could avoid tricky situations where I might be asked to do something I didn't want to. But counselling helped me/us to set boundaries. For him no more flirting with other women and pretending it was ok, he is charming and funny and he knows it! No texting our female friends with his whiisms. We discussed how it makes me feel and if the boot was on the other foot, how would he feel? We are no longer available to everyone - including my parents, all of the time. It seemed selfish at first but after a while and with practice, gradually It gets easier to to do. Sometimes it takes some thought and tact- I am working on that one! Also , I have learnt not to worry if everyone isn't happy or in agreement with me. I realise I do have a voice and I matter! Being compassionate and caring doesn't mean you can't have boundaries.
    So Melissa, speak your truth. If your husband loves and respects you he will listen.

    Strong boundaries and respect for myself. You couldnt have been more right Elle!

    Love and hugs, thank you!

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    1. Florence,
      That's so great. You must be a good student cause it took me YEARS to figure this stuff out. I too completely removed myself from everything -- all the volunteering, all the imbalanced friendships, etc. And then, when I felt stronger, I slowly re-entered the world being really careful about what I said 'yes' to and what I said 'no' too. Every now and then I feel deflated that I'm not the super-duper juggler of a zillion balls earning accolades for all that I do. But then I wonder about all those women who said to me "wow, you sure do a lot." I took it as a compliment. Now I wonder if they were silently telling me I was crazy. No matter. I do what's important to ME now. And am far less addicted to the attention and the praise that I earned before. Frankly it was never enough anyway. I either felt unappreciated, or simply craved more.

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  5. Elle
    I think this is a wonderful piece. Why are we loath to show anger? Why do we have to not show it? I had to re-read your introduction to this vey fine article and maybe I read wrong but you wanted to dismiss your very valid anger emotion?

    There was a good article in Psychology Today regarding this very subject. How we are taught from childhood NOT to express anger. To push it out, it's not becoming especially for females. Well I think that is wrong. Anger is our protection from being abused and taken advantage of. It helps us make and place healthy boundaries. I hope your family and friends have learned from the boundaries you have place and found your well deserved respect.

    Since DDay I have showed lots of anger. I'm a giver and I've surrounded myself with takers. It's a hard habit to break. Not only have I set boundaries , new boundaries for my husband created out of my anger from being utterly disrespected but for everyone else. I've also become more loving and compassionate as well. Exhibiting both love and compassion and anger are NOT mutually exclusive. Indeed that gut feeling should never be forced to the nether regions of your psyche. It is the only true information giver you have.

    This is a very good article. I'm going to bookmark it and re-read it. Thank you so much for posting it an allowing me to learn from it. We all need validation.

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  6. Ladies… The pain I am feeling right now is greater than any pain I felt during this entire process - perhaps greater than any pain ever felt in my life. As you may recall, my husband and I separated on April 13. There has been a lot of hope. We have been seeing each other on a regular basis and getting along very well. I had asked him to come to me if he was in contact with the OW or pursuing her in anyway. He came to me this past Monday night and told me that he had run into her at a concert the night before. He verified that he had also texted her the next day which was Monday and then had a plan to see each other again.
    I started crying and then said well this means divorce… And he actually looked entirely shocked… And then I continued to cry and express the hope that I had been feeling and and the utter confusion as to frankly as to how to go through a divorce I threw my arms out and said how do we separate all of this the garage is packed with stuff our money and our family our friends our lifestyle ... Before long he too was crying and saying he didn't want to divorce and he didn't want to lose me and he loved me. This all took quite some time maybe about an hour… Eventually he asked me to please sit tight and not to see an attorney and I asked him to stop being in touch with her. I also said I was so very grateful that he told me the truth, because there was no way that I could know. After he left he called me back and we spoke for about 20 minutes he just wanted to make sure I was okay… And later that night I felt panicky and I called him and spoke to him before bed. I said to him people who love each other and get along and call other pet names they don't get divorces.
    So the rest of the week we saw each other pretty frequently as he was here at the house working on his bike and then we would go out afterwords or just chat here.
    This past Friday night he told me that he ran into a mutual friend at the same concert where he ran into the OW. He apologize for telling her as we had agreed to not tell anyone else. I immediately texted her after my date with my husband and she responded back immediately and we made plans to see each other the following night.
    In essence, she showed me proof via Facebook messages that in fact he didn't just run into the OW at the concert, yet he had come with her, not alone, but with other friends. So in essence he took her on a date… He took her to a concert… And from the descriptions and the messages they all had a great time. Until our mutual friend asked where I was and he said that we were separated - she asked who left who and he said he left and then apparently she started getting on him about how he needs to give me the house and take care of me and not try to take the money - and apparently the OW quickly disappeared.

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  7. The point of all this is how much pain can I go through? Why is he stringing me along? And seeing her? And perhaps more importantly… Why am I allowing it? I have decided, reluctantly to seeing an attorney this week. I am not filing as of yet… But I need to see someone for initial consultation As much as I know he does love me it doesn't even matter if he is still confused and so messed up in the head that he doesn't know how to act as a husband. And how I cry so often and he is expressed to me that he wishes I could sleep in that it would stop crying it then he takes her on a date and tells me just ran into her. And he texts me and he calls me and he asked me on dates and I know he's going to text or call me tomorrow I guess it's today Mother's Day he's up visiting his family and I don't even know how to respond. Hardest thing in the world is to stop wanting him ... to stop wanting our marriage back.
    21 years… 21 years ... He's saying goodbye to our 21 year history for a woman that he has told me there's 1000 reasons why he wouldn't go back to her. The first of which is he didn't want to hurt me anymore… I wish for just one minute he would feel this pain…I have nothing profound to say in the end… I just want someone to hold me ...

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    1. We are all holding you. We are all here for you. You are never alone ever. You remember this. Someone is praying you through. Your loved, your wanted, your perfectly made and you are one of a kind. That is something that must be respected. I'm sorry for your pain I've felt that yuck myself many a time but I need you to do something. Tell you husband thank you for speaking so openly to you. You tell your husband you know the truth. That if he wants you to respect him he must respect you. You tell him you will not tolerate mediocre. You deserve better than how you have been treated. This behavior is unacceptable and you will not allow it to continue because you are worth way more than this. You tell him every time he decided to make poor decisions he put your whole family at health risks that you had no choice in. How would he like it if an STD was volunteered by you on his behalf. Tell him no more or your through.- We love you tons I've read your story and I'm so proud of you for being able to speak your pain. If you can let it out you can let it go. Both you and your husband will indeed figure this out. Don't give up on yourself that's what all this evil wants you to do. You are worth so much more than what you have been dealt. Hold your head up and allow yourself to feel what is God given inside you. You are worth more than gold. Love you - Ann from Texas

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    2. Melissa,
      I'm with Ann. We are absolutely here and holding you and like your own personal army. He lied to you. You have asked repeatedly for honesty and respect and he has responded by lying to you and disrespecting you in front of a group of people. He is showing you who he is. I know it's devastating and I know it's absolutely NOT how you wanted this to end. But everyone here is right: get yourself to a lawyer and protect yourself financially. Take the steps toward a legal separation. Your husband is a classic cake-eater (as if "have your cake and eat it too"). He thinks he can keep both of you fighting over him like he's some sort of prize. Do NOT play that game. Get a lawyer ad continue doing everything you're doing to nurture yourself. I remember that pain -- it feels unbearable. But it's a feeling, Melissa. Like any other feeling, it won't last. Cry, punch pillows, scream, cry some more. But trust that you are so much stronger than you know. And worth so much more than the treatment he's giving you. Respect yourself enough to refuse to tolerate any more.
      We're in your corner Melissa.

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  8. Melissa,

    Go to see the attorney - alone. No matter what happens -- go to see the attorney - alone!! OK to take a friend or close relative but do not let your husband go with you.

    You do not have to file anything or start anything. Have the attorney contact your husband -- in writing. If the attorney wants to charge you a fee for this - ask him if you can have your plans put on paper so that you can review them before making a decision. This plan must be on the attorney's letterhead paper. Most attorneys will do this without charge if you explain that you are interviewing other attorneys to find one that is a 'fit' for you. It is sort of like getting a free 'estimate' from an electrician before they start the work. In law they call it a consultation.

    Then, send a copy (not the original) to your husband. Do not call him to tell him it is coming. Get someone to type an envelope for you - do not write anything on the copy - just send it. He needs to know you mean business and right now he is playing with your feelings.

    I am new to this shit but he is "having his cake and eating his cake, too." He wants to keep you AND the OW. He does not want to make a decision. Fence sitting it is called. I may be wrong but reading your post it sounds like he does have financial reasons. Did he ever send a NO CONTACT letter to the OW ??

    (((HUGS)))

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    1. Yes, SS. Thank-you for this!

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    2. SS, he had sent a no contact letter back when we lived together just after I found out about the affair. However, at the time I did not know what a no contact was and I did not see the actual text he told me about it. she had texted him three times after that about two weeks later and he did not respond at that time I could check the records and verify that. Frankly, it is he who is pursuing her I believe.
      As for the financial reasons, yes, our finances are tight.. We do have money put away in retirement funds. Honestly, I am the one who would be hurting more financially at this point at the end of the divorce… As I recently started a new business and my income is not what it used to be. He carries our health insurance and also has of course life insurance. as well, he has been working a lot of overtime in order to keep our heads above water.. His paycheck continues to come into our checking account. We live in a 50-50 state so through the divorce everything would be divided in half.

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  9. Melissa, he seems to be playing you and thinks he can get away with it. I am so sorry. How much more can you take? if you do reconcile will you ever be able to forgive him for this latest round of selfish behavior? Do you think he has mistaken your willingness to rebuild for a free pass to explore whatever/whoever he wants? He is putting himself and his needs first, again and once again you're the one getting hurt. You need to take a huge step back from him. Hell, maybe you need to give him a no contact directive.

    Strength to you in making this decision. Either way, it'll hurt but which choice will put you on the road to being whole again? You don't deserve this, nobody deserves this....

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  10. Melissa
    I am so sorry. My husband did the same when we were separated. I listened to his words and bought his crocodile tears too. I won't bore you with the details but same events. It wasn't until I put my boundaries down, explained how after a month of couples counseling, he was still living apart from me, that I had had enough talk. I was moving forward with divorce with my bad ass lawyer who had already served papers to him. There would be no more bullshit manipulative talks. He either moved back home and we work through his affair, (and boy was it a huge one, lots of time, he hired her, lotssss of marital assets to her), did his light bulb finally go off. The man was scared shitless. One month later all the truth came out and boy did I really want to kick him to the curb. Fast forward 4 years later from that day there was a strict No Contact rule. She was fired and I have throughly checked and verified that this has been so. He praises me daily for sticking with him. He apologizes often. It's been pretty good. He's been great however I question myself for staying. The balls are all in my court and that is a tremendous responsibility. So now I live with my choice that I've stayed. One ounce of disrespect, I'm out and will never look back. So learn from us. Don't believe his words he's a liar plain and simple. Look to his actions as if you were deaf. Right now your hurt brain is playing tricks on you. You want to believe his words. DONT. Pay attention to his actions. You CANNOT work on a marriage if you are living apart. There's no marriage to work on. I hope I've helped. I know your pain and it is excruciating.

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  11. Melissa,
    I'm so sorry for your pain. I can feel it in my heart. With his back and forth bullshit, it is cruel. You can never get back the past and even if you could it will never be the same. So while your selfish, I can't even say husband, selfish asshole is figuring his life out, focus on you. Think about what you want. Think about your life in terms of you not "you and him". Right now whoever you were married to does not exist right now. Think about your future and if just so happens to want to join you at some point then it will be if you let him. He can't rebuild his marriage and have a date with the OW. It is hard as hell to think straight but try. Take care of your self. You be selfish NOW. Go on you can do this but stop clinging to him, your stronger than that, I can read it between the lines. My therapist had me do some low cost emotional actions for myself. Such as doing something just for me. Do one totally selfish thing for you. I went to therapy twice a week and clung to her like a life raft. You need to find your life raft. I just started being selfish. I didn't cook a meal for 4 months. I didn't take out the garbage, empty the dishwasher or pick up my stuff got six months. It helped me. Then I started tanning, facials, eye lash extensions, new clothes all exterior stuff but it did get me moving. etc.. I decided I was going to show him what he was going to lose and I didn't care it was his loss. You need to let him see your not clinging but can say go piss up a rope buddy until you figure out what you want. I'm figuring out what I want and healing me right now from this mess you dumped in my lap. You didn't chose this and you don't need to let him chose anything for you right now, he hasn't earned it. The controlling is over.

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    1. Thank-you, you wonderful warriors, for all the great advice and support and wisdom for Melissa. Man oh man, you are all some badass ladies with the biggest hearts. Ain't nobody gonna mess with one of ours, right?

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    2. That's right Elle we are to strong to let even one of us fall. Love you girls we have been through hell and back. No fear just hope we can do this we have each other. Thank you God for letting us be us. -Ann from Texas

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  12. Ladies, thank you all so very, very much. I cried as I read your posts, I cried for the love, I cried for the support, I cried for the wisdom and I cried for the advice. And probably, I cried the most because I know you're all right… And I just don't want to believe it. Even still, I have reached out to an attorney for a consultation. I will see a few to gather information and compare. I have asked a friend to go with me because my mind is not working as well as I know it can.
    It is not what I want…yet what I want… A husband who does not lie, a husband who comes home and truly works on the marriage through counseling and his actions… I have no control over that.
    For me, the only way that I can move forward to a potential divorce is to not think of it is final. I know that may sound strange, but to think of it as final is too frightening for me. One moment at a time.
    My heartfelt gratitude to each and everyone of you beautiful souls :-).

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    1. Melissa,
      That's the only way to get through ANY of this, whether we stay in a marriage or not. One moment at a time. It's when we start looking too far ahead that it feels overwhelming. Right now, you are here. You have taken the "next right step" and that's all you need to do. Just keep taking the "next right step". We're right beside you.

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    2. It seems so scary at this stage but don't be afraid. Your not alone and your husband obviously isn't the first with this behavior. We are all praying for your swift healing as crazy as it sounds but that's what we would have wanted for us too. Please don't give up and keep trying to focus and feel peace whenever possible. It might be little glimpses but rejoice when it occurs. We love you and I'm rooting for you. It's ok to feel angry, sad, frustrated you name it. Just remember you need to add peace and joy in so that everything doesn't overcome you. Even if it's just in the kids giggling or the nice breeze blowing through your hair. Thank God for the relief ok. You watch your making choices that make change happen. That's when strength kicks in. Strength is what gets you through. Your husband will see you for you as you should be seen. You will demand respect and the required admiration for maintaining a wonderful you. That's how I started my journey. Knowing nothing would change if I didn't stand for myself. That's when I moved to Florida it changed everything, but I am loved now and treated as though I'm cherished. But I had to take the scary steps and learn not to be afraid. I waited until I was strong enough, but when I took the steps my husband followed. I love him, but sometimes I'm ticked he couldn't change sooner... 19 years.... Really ,)
      Love you - Ann from Texas

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  13. Ann, I have a friend whose husband was separated from her for over a year and during that time he was seen the OW and my friend knew about it. My friend and her husband were in weekly marriage counseling the whole time. My friend had three children and a strong faith this is why she continued to try for the marriage. she had also consulted an attorney. And in the end she gave her husband and ultimatum and he moved back home… That was five years ago and she says her marriage is better than ever. Actually though, she really put herself through way too much stress she didn't have any weight to lose and lost 42 pounds she developed cancer twice… And, I question the worth that suffering. But, that is her choice and her choice alone.
    I cannot quite tell from your post, but I am interested… So are you saying you were in a similar situation, separated from your husband and he was seeing someone else. And then you just went on with your life and build yourself up stronger and stronger and he followed you… To Florida? I am going to continue to take steps forward to protect myself not only financially but to protect my heart… Because I need to move forward. And I do seek out joy… I do find myself laughing because that's who I am. By nature. And, I sure wish I knew where you were in Florida because I'm in Florida too…and I would absolutely love to meet you.
    Thank you for the beautiful and heartfelt post, you really touched me. Love (Ok, my real name is Luann - I chose Melissa because of Melissa Etheridge - I look at her ia such a strong woman)

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    1. My story is a little different but it's all the same when it comes to being betrayed. It doesn't matter when and what time your betrayed you are still betrayed. What matters is everything that is done by both of you to stop the cycle and respect each other. None of us is perfect we all make mistakes. We just choose whether or not to act out our inner imperfections and reveal them to the world. When our husbands do this they hurt more than just us. They damage everyone else too. Women do these things too sometimes they just are selfish other times in retaliation, but it doesn't matter how or when. What matters is if we deal with what is broken inside ourselves to stop what we are doing and fix it. It's not instantaneous it takes time. I am a women that has only ever trusted one man to be anywhere near me. That is what hurt more than anything else. He didn't see the value in me. He could trust me. I loved him and he threw what I had for him out of his heart when he was doing everything. That betrayal made me sick. It made my heart swell and beat irregularly. It made me not sleep through the night for two years. It made me lose 60 pounds. My hair fell out. All this but it also made me strong enough to do what I had never done. Realize how mistreated I was and put my foot down and say not no but "hell no." I'm worth way more than your garbage can of sun and I'm not tolerating if. The End. So since I had all this illness I went to the sea to learn "Hurricane Construction." For both my line of work and metaphorically inside me. I healed a ton in Florida but returned to Texas to help my momma. I'm in Texas now starting all over with less savings but tons richer inside. I've also gotten a new job here, but I miss my beach, and all my friends I've made. Life isn't perfect, but we have the power to make change happen. It's something God gave us that nobody can take away. I love my life and I had almost lost all hope. I see now that it isn't just one giant regret. Finally I see that it was a million wonderful moments all culminating together with one huge period of time that wasn't mine that was trying to hairpin onto my masterpiece. So every time the devil throws those memories my way I say "Hell No" those are not mine. We are worth so much more, but sometimes it takes so much more for our husbands to decide and with or without we are so much richer inside. Because at least we know the truth and won't settle for mediocre. We know we stood up for what is right and pure in our hearts. Love you girls tons! I've gotta figure out how to post with an email linked so I can keep in touch. When I visit my Florida I may be able to see you Luann - love Ann from Texas

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    2. Oh I forgot to tell you. He did follow me to Florida. ;) Not without getting a little worked up though. ,) you know how that is... Everybody said I was giving him an ultimatum.... Yeah right.... I was too darn sick to breathe. Ultimatum wasn't in my vocabulary. I was trying to heal my heart and get healthy for my kids. I wanted to see them grow up, graduate, get married and have love with a spouse that was truly appreciative. So I went to where I was at the most filled with peace. My Caribbean. I did stay stateside for the kids so they could literally drive to me and not need a passport. I spent my time working a ton learning all things new a job, new software, new area, new people and a new me that was being created. It wasn't the best decision for everybody, but God knew it was the best for me. I was really truly sick. I loved my husband too much I guess. I had forgotten to love myself enough to care for myself like I should. Not too much to where I'm too selfish for anybody else but enough to eat and sleep. So yes it was a ton of work and when he got there every night he held me like a baby. I needed him, but didn't want to. I had to allow my heart to let him back in, but as always in a much wiser way. Love you tons you will see what I'm talking about. Then you can make choices that best fit your little family and you two. I'm here for you because I know how much you hurt. Love - Ann from Texas

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    3. Ann from Texas
      Your story is compelling. I lost a lot of weight and subsequent hair loss, I'm shocked I'm not bald, and the horrible anxiety that kept my heart racing day and night. I cannot believe I don't have real health implications from the physical stress I went through for 2 years as well. I have had physicals and my docs assure me I'm ok. I do have to have STD tests every two years. Charming right? Infidelity, it's the gift that just keeps giving!!

      While I didn't relocate I did leave for California for 12 days and Colorado for a week where I hiked and really thought about my situation. I don't know if I would have actually had the nerve to completely relocate but maybe :) You're my hero for having done so and furthered your career in the process. Very impressive.

      Do you feel people were judging you for seemingly giving him an "ultimatum"? Which by the way I do not think you were. I was recently accused by a family member of holding people hostage. Did not know where that came from other than a divorce would have resulted a decimation of a family business while I would have been suing for what is legally mine. I do think some folks think if the cheater comes home and reconciles it's only because of fear of the severe financial loss incurred when dividing up assets. At least the ignorant ones do. The OW has even told people I know the reason he is back with me is for financial reasons. Well she doesn't have a camera in my home so she's in the ignorant camp. That's another story though :)

      Anyway just curious on your take.

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    4. Ann from Texas,
      "Hell no" is my new mantra. What a story. Thank-you so much for that. Glad to have you among us.

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    5. TryingHard,
      The OW, it's safe to say, is generally not in a position to offer up an objective assessment of the marriage. So please disregard pretty much anything that comes out of her mouth as self-serving lies.
      I'm curious about your "retreat" to CA and Colorado. That must have felt quite mind-clearing. Would love to hear more about it.

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    6. Oh yes I was judged 10 times over, but that's the toxicity that I'm saying no to. I realized people judge what they are afraid of. Many times they are afraid of allowing what is right to happen in return. I on the other hand seek out what is good and pure and run to it. This brings me peace inside. So never hesitate to do what is right because of what others think. Be the leader God made you to be. Fill your heart with hope and he will lead you through the rest. My husband was a little more like Elle's. He sought out his inequities and I saw this for what it was. That's why only God in Heaven knows what went on inside us to heal us. We are working on it but it's been totally worth it. He is now my best friend again. We laugh in the middle of the night my my daughter says kids kids stop laughing and go to bed. ;) Only Love could get us to this point. - Ann from Texas

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    7. Elle,
      I agree and thanks for that validation. It was crazy. He left the middle of March. I was in shock and despair. Didn't eat, literally, for 2 weeks, nothing. There was craziness and fights and more craziness. Every crazy episode left me back to hiding under my bed. One morning the middle of April it was like a voice that said "Get out of this town for a while". I seriously thought someone was in the room. So I started trying to decide where to go. Every place I thought of I had been with him. I had friends who offered up their vacation homes etc but I knew I had to go someplace different. Santa Barbara showed up on my FB page and I decided that's where I would go. So I booked a flight, rented a car, booked a hotel room, bought a Garmin and off I went. I landed in LA, had never been there and drove by myself to SB. Now that was harrowing, but just what I needed. I couldn't mindlessly drive a car. I HAD to concentrate on where I was driving. LOL I was so thrilled when I arrived at my destination 3 hours later. Yes, little old me drove in LA traffic with my trusty Garmin by my side!! I went out to dinner by myself, sat on the freezing beach, walked all over, went to the show, shopped, drove the Santa Ynez mountains, went to Solvang, watched the Royal wedding in my room which was quaint and cozy, I took care of me. I prayed my ass off!!! I begged for guidance. I found my own strength and fortitude and knew I could do this.

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    8. During that trip HE called and we chatted. He said he was very confused. Still loved me wanted to be with me, but there was so much damage he had done. He was scared. He called me constantly and had NO idea I was in SB. Got home and he came to visit. We started talking more but it was back and forth and he was still out of the house. Started MC the first of June. Very frustrating as he was still being totally dishonest. So a couple weeks into it and I was dealing with more dishonesty and manipulation I left again middle of June and drove to my friends house in CO for a week. It was great. Went to the Food and Wine festival, walked, freaking hiked for miles BY MYSELF in the wilderness, I was scared shitless. But I really challenged myself. Came back mightier and angrier than ever. Told him I was done, over it, moving on with the divorce, had enough of his manipulations and fake words etc. LOL I blew. Drew the line in the sand. I had challenged myself and knew I could take care of myself. I was ready for the court battle, ready for anymore crap from him. Turned deaf to his words. I had a bad ass attorney who empowered me, great counselors. I was moving on and up. Matter of fact the night I got home from CO is when I told him all this and I was getting ready to go out and meet some friends who wanted to introduce me to a male friend of their's who was interested in meeting me :) I looked fantastic. I had sun, I had exercised, I had challenged myself in ways I had never challenged myself and I was ready for the fight. Next day he came back crying begging forgiveness etc. He moved back home a couple days later UGH and the end of July we went back out to CO. On the trip out there is when all the truth came out and how he had just been with the OW the day before we left for our trip!! Had been with her 3-4 times after he moved back home and swore he wasn't seeing her!! That 12 hour drive never went so fast. We hiked, and fished, and talked and talked and cried and fought and yelled. YOu name it. Anyway when we hiked he made sure to never wander too close to the end of the mountain!!

      So 4 years later here we are. We went to Paris and renewed our vows in the same church my parents were married during WWII. It's been good. He's been great but it is NOT easy. I'm almost there. Blogs like yours helps. I hope whatever knowledge this experience has given to me I can pass on to others. All I know is you cannot be a wimp. At least I couldn't and setting the boundaries and getting mad as hell is what changed the current of a very miserable existence.

      Yikes had to do this in two posts. Sorry Elle :/

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    9. Hahaha love it!!! Don't be sorry. If peace is not in your surroundings seek it. Make decisions to make change happen. I know I did ,) you can too and do it with dignity and respect. Love it- Ann from Texas

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    10. Wow, TH, what a story. What an epic journey you've been on. So glad you told us about it.

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    11. Thanks Elle. And that was the edited down version!!

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  14. Melisa,

    Your not alone in your pain and journey and you will make it through! chase after your strength and that awesome laughter

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  15. Ladies, I know it's been said over and over but I will say it again thank you all so much for sharing your stories and for offering support it means the world to me. I went to see an attorney today it was very difficult I did have my friend there and she took copious notes that's why chose her. I like the attorney very much and got a lot of information. TryingHard ... it seems as if your husband's behavior is much like my husband's… And I love the fact that you went on trips on your own how absolutely empowering that must've been. And and from Texas you are a doll :-).
    I had told myself after I found out about the affair that I would not make a decision until I was stronger. And now I've been forced into a position where I'm going to need to make a decision even though I am not feeling strong or empowered at this time. I simply know that if my current circumstance - us being separated and him potentially in contact with the OW and I don't even know… Is causing me emotional distress that is not healthy for me. I certainly know that a divorce will also cause me stress… However at least I would know in what direction I am going, rather than living in limbo. Okay, I'm so very tired… Hugs to everyone (((. )))

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  16. Melissa
    I know yesterday was a hard day. I remember it well and I'm glad you thought to take someone with you for a second set of ears. I'm not even saying you will end up getting divorced but it is very wise to get all your ducks in a row.

    Fact is your husband isn't thinking right. He's playing his options and he's lying. It's very difficult to create some peace when you are getting mixed signals and it cannot go on. It is imperative that you take care of yourself financially and emotionally. I could leave because I don't have small children or a job at that time. My lawyer adamantly told me not to find a job. Even if I had I was a mess and probably couldn't have found one. But you can do small things for yourself and I suggest doing them. Just try everyday to do something positive and feel good for you. I also walked, ALOT.

    You're going to be tempted to tell you have secured council. Some folks will say not to. I'm not sure about that. He needs to know if he continues the affair it's a deal breaker and you are moving forward with what you need to do. DO NOT however talk about the legalities. You guys should talk about the state of your marriage however never get into a discussion about legalities. He will try to bully you or sell you on something else.

    Stay strong. We are here for you. Hugs and prayers to you.

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    Replies
    1. Good advice, TH. And glad you've taken that step, Melissa. Whatever happens, you're taking control of what you can. And that's empowering in itself. You're nobody's puppet.

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  17. Thank you TH and Elle. It did in fact make me feel empowered… I am seeing another attorney this coming Wednesday. I'm taking the same friend with me. I also spoke to my husband in regards to his contact with the OW and the fact that doing such is disrespectful to me. Adding, I do not disrespect you. As well, it muddles his mind as far as the clarity he needs during this time of separation. I find myself being a combination of "carrot and stick" I am positive and enticing at times, looking good and feeling good in the presence of my husband…and in the same visit I give him a piece of my mind, without drama, just very clear stating what it is I expect. At one point I told him you're not going to just wake up with a lightning bolt to the brain that gives you a decision you need to make a decision and commit to it. Adding, you need to put on your big boy panties and figure it out. I have noticed a definite change in him… He is texting and calling and visiting more often… As well, I can simply feel the difference in him. Our six-week separation is over on May 25… My intention is to have seen both attorneys by that time. If my husband has not been able to come up with his decision my intent is to tell him that I Will no longer continue in a separation. If he asks for more separation time I will tell him no I cannot continue to do this it is not progressing our marriage and is unhealthy for me. if he does not want to come home and put his all, 100% into the marriage I will tell him that I have consulted with attorneys… And that I believe it's time for us to sit down and divide our assets. If he feels he wants to come home and work on the marriage… there will be conditions, of course. I am certainly hoping for the reconciliation and both of us giving her all in the process. get a least I feel better having made some decisions and a plan, rather than living in limbo. £>£>£>

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  18. Bravo Melissa. You are doing the right thing. Lol I get the looking good and then being, what I like to call, FIRM:).

    If HE chooses not to come home and make an earnest effort AND absolute NO CONTACT with the OW then you will choose your own destiny. Not him, he will be choosing his own miserable destiny.

    I truly believe he is starting to see the light.. He thinks he needs time to make sure he's making the right choice. I call bullshit on that. You are not an option!!! But I agree during this time apart you get your ducks in a row. Let him go on wasting time and energy playing the high school boy, having his proverbial cake and eating it too. I know you want your marriage but make him beg to come home. Make him prove your value to him. Do not allow yourself to be an option so don't push your hand and insist he come home before May 25. All the balls will be in your court, I assure you, one way or another. I've been including you in my prayers everyday. Know you're cared for and loved. We know exactly what you are going through. Stay strong and be kind to yourself. This is NOT your fault.

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  19. Wow you sound strong, determined and sticking to YOUR plan. He chose the OW even after Dday so now your in control of the choices not him and you sound great. Stay strong either way it gets better and you already sound better.

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  20. Thank you ladies… I saw my husband this evening and he asked me how I felt about us getting back together ... about him moving home. I didn't answer right away… In fact, we were leaving a restaurant and found a homeless man whom we did our best to help. Once we got back to our home… I said in answer to your question ... I believe we could have a better marriage then we had before and it was pretty darn good ... I asked how he felt? And he said that he was scared… I told him I was scared too. I reminded him that a long time ago he taught me in regards to scuba diving ... I said to him that I was scared and he said you don't think I'm scared? Courage is moving forward even when facing fear. I did tell him… We need to both determine what us getting back together looks like. I want to put the ball in his court and ask him how is he going to allow me or provide me with the opportunity to trust him again. What does that look like to him? Obviously my deal breakers would be no contact with the OW and some form of treatment… I'm not certain myself what that looks like yet. Individual counseling? Marriage counseling? Reading the books that were recommended by our previous marriage counselor? We have a date scheduled for this coming Tuesday… We plan to go to the beach and we are going to discuss what our getting back together looks like for us. Yes, I could feel that something had changed in him…I believe something has changed in me too. And I believe the support and the love that you all have shown me, as well as the support and love from my family and friends has lifted me to a place of strength. I am not certain exactly where I'm going from here… In regards to my marriage… I do know this though, I am one blessed woman. I strongly believe that everything happens for the greater good and everything happens for the growth of our souls .... I can't say exactly what that is right now… One day I will be absolutely certain. Peace, light and love.

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    Replies
    1. Melissa,
      From what you've been writing, you sound more centred and certain that previously. That is you operating from a place of strength and self-respect. Hang on to that no matter what he does. Your job has always been to come to the relationship with respect and honesty; that's always been his job too. He has let you down. You're right to insist upon a plan from him about how he's going to make amends...and become the person you deserved all along.

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  21. Melissa
    This sounds good. Just please proceed with caution. Keep your eyes wide open. Trust but verify.

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  22. Melissa,

    'I said to him people who love each other and get along and call other pet names they don't get divorces.'

    This is why this whole business is so sad. So sad that people are selfish and unkind. The loss won't even be understood until much later, when it hits him what he's done.

    May I add my voice to those praising you for your courage and strength. They say 'fake it till you make it,' and that's something you can do. You've put everything in place and will have legal advice as you take the next few steps. Perhaps you'll feel the women here supporting you when you feel most alone, because I know any one of us would be there in person if we could be.

    I bet you don't know your own strength. Well, you're about to find out how strong you are. Whatever happens, you'll have reason to be proud of yourself for staying above the madness. I've seen this on other sites - the Polish proverb "Not my circus, not my monkeys." Did you order the monkeys? I think not. Either he wakes up and puts down the banana or he does not; meanwhile you're not keeping your life on hold while he works out which species he belongs to.

    Fierce hug for you.

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    Replies
    1. Iris,
      It's these guys' damn "bananas" that are getting them in so much trouble! ;)
      I love that "not my circus, not my monkeys" proverb. Important to remember.
      And...Yay! You're back. We've missed you.
      Fierce hug indeed.

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    2. I'm still around, reading. Hope to be more present soon!

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  23. Thanks Elle. I don't mean to hijack your blog. I hope I'm giving reasonable and good guidance. All of us have the same experience. Maybe a little different details and maybe different depths of pain but in the end we are all in the same leaky boat.

    I think sometimes as betrayed spouse we see hope where there may not be any. I do think in Melissa's case there is hope. People get very confused in the early days, betrayed and cheater. There are so many wrong turns. I hope I am helping if just a little bit.

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    Replies
    1. TH,
      Please don't ever worry that you're "hijacking" anything. I've always imagined this is as a community, with me as something of a gatekeeper to keep the haters out while we get strong.
      I think it's really important to have many points of view. You're right in that so many of might have different circumstances but similar experiences dealing with it.
      I do try hard to never encourage someone to choose either reconciliation or divorce, but rather to encourage them to figure out for themselves what they want from a place of clarity and self-respect. In some cases, it's clear that the person is in an abusive situation and I won't hesitate to tell them to get the hell out (no idea whether they take that advice or not; I suspect it's not quite that easy). But in so many cases, we really have no idea what's right for somebody else. Some of us need to try everything before we're ready to throw in the towel. Some need to know that it's possible to have another option than to leave.
      In any case...thank-you. And to you and everyone on this site, please don't ever hesitate to offer up your heartfelt guidance, hard-won wisdom, gentle compassion and support. I take such pleasure seeing you all helping each other along.

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  24. My heartfelt thanks and gratitude to each of you ... and of course ... a fierce hug too!

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