"The more I could forgive myself, though, the more I could forgive other people, many of whom I had placed on pedestals from which they were destined to fall. I had to get everything back into perspective: I’m not the greatest, or the worst. Where is my place in the middle?"~Sarah Hepola, Author of Blackout: Remembering the Things I Drank to Forget
It's an odd thing to suggest, isn't it? That those of us who've been betrayed – those of us who haven't lied to and deceived our partners – begin by forgiving ourselves. What do we need forgiveness for? We behaved ourselves. We held ourselves to higher standards.
And yet...
What do we need forgiveness for?
In my case...everything.
Behind my polished veneer, my look-how-fast-I-can-dance performance of the perfect wife and mother and writer, was terror that I was nowhere near as good as I pretended I was. That I wasn't worthy of the accolades, or the success, or the love.
I was only barely aware of that, of course. Mostly I performed so convincingly that I believed myself. I believed I had transformed myself from the shame-filled adolescent who feared that people would discover the truth about her hospitalized mother and her alcohol-soaked home life into someone respectable. Someone who needn't fear others' judgement. Except that I still did.
So when I discovered that my husband, the "perfect" spouse, was anything but, those monsters I'd barricaded behind closet doors came crashing through. Of course he cheated on me, was their rallying cry. I was a nobody. I came from dysfunction. I was a fraud. I didn't deserve love or loyalty.
Forgiveness?
How could I even think of forgiving my husband for what he'd done when I couldn't forgive myself for being who I was.
As long as I was fuelled by self-loathing for not being perfect enough to deserve a faithful husband, I could offer my husband nothing but loathing for his imperfection. And that's what I served up. Anger. Disgust. Hate. Shame.
I demanded to know how he could do this to me. How dare he?
I remember the day when I finally understood that his affair wasn't my failing, it was his. If I'd been a cartoon, there would have been lightbulb over my head.
And it was at that moment that the grip of loathing I felt for my husband – but which was really at myself – loosened a bit.
If it really wasn't my fault that my husband cheated, then maybe it wasn't my fault that my mother chose alcohol over me. Maybe it wasn't my fault that my father chose self-pity over me.
Maybe the only person who ever had to truly choose me was me.
It was a radical thought for someone who believed her value lay only in who she could be for other people. What if, my thought process went, I gave myself permission to be myself. Flawed. "Not the greatest, or the worst." Somewhere in the middle.
It felt terrifying.
But if I allowed myself that freedom, could I – dare I – allow my husband the same latitude to be neither the greatest nor the worst. In the middle. A guy who'd made a colossal mistake but wasn't a monster.
Forgiveness has been the single greatest gift I've ever given myself. I still – often! – fall into my self-bashing ways. I must be constantly vigilant against the critic (what's up with your ass? When did it get so big? You look old. Of course, that publication rejected your piece. It sucked. And so on.) Not surprisingly, I've noticed that my self-judgement runs lockstep with my judgement of other people. And that, when I can be gentle with myself, I can be gentle with others.
Whatever your path toward healing from betrayal, I believe it begins with self-forgiveness. Only when we let ourselves off the hook for being who we are are we able to let go of what others have done to us. Their choices become entirely about them. We need only take responsibility for our own.
Whether we allow those who've hurt us room in our lives is another question entirely. Forgiving others doesn't necessarily mean an open door into our world. That's another choice that is ours.
And that choice need be neither the best nor the worst. But in the middle.
Elle,
ReplyDeleteAfter your last post, I looked up Brene Brown and listened to her on TED and then downloaded her books. I was particularly interested in her work on shame. I have been steadfastly studying since, learning about myself, about others and about shame in general. I now find myself able to take a good, hard look at everything going on through new eyes. The result? The beginning of forgiveness. Forgiveness for myself and for my husband. For the first time I feel my vigilant grip on anger and mistrust beginning to loosen. I feel myself beginning to let go and it is both freeing and a little bit frightening. Am I becoming more vulnerable? Well, I really don't know at this point, but whatever the case, I know I'll be okay. I can't stay in this place of hyper-vigilance for the rest of my life. It requires too much stamina to keep up. I'm not wired to be withdrawn and reclusive. I need to allow myself to venture out of my shell to live again. Wish me luck! I'll let you know how it goes.
Merilee
Brené Brown's work is, I believe, incredibly important. We've become such a shame-based culture -- we feel shame and we cast shame. It's toxic.
DeleteFreeing ourselves from it is terrifying but also liberating. It means letting go of hyper vigilance. It means freeing ourselves from impossible standards...and freeing those around us. It means living life, instead of choreographing it.
If you haven't read her books, I recommend them. The Gifts of Imperfection is where I started. Daring Greatly is fabulous too. And I suspect this next one (out August 25) will be another seminal work.
Elle, yes, I've suffered from perfectionism much of my life. I am going to need to reread and process this article. I get it ... yet I wonder if I really get it.
ReplyDeleteToday has been a bit challenging for me. As you all may recall my h has been away on vacation for just shy of two weeks now. He was calling and texting regularly as was I… And in general things have been very good. Yet, if a stretch of time goes by where I don't hear from him the anxiety starts to rise. Truth is, I always had that to some extent and now it is heightened with the affair. I worry if he's OK, yet now, if I were truthful, I worry more in thinking, does he care about me? So, Elle, there is a reference to this article…
And that is truly going to be my challenge through all of this. I need to hear from him and I need to know that he cares. I need to know that he loves me. I need to know that that love is not wavering because he hit mid-life, or I am diagnosed with a terminal illness, or maybe I put on an extra 20 pounds. I felt so sure before the affair. I felt safe. Funny thing is, well, really not so funny; I know he doesn't feel safe right now either.
I also know that I feel safer when we are together. And like I said, he's been gone for nearly 2 weeks now. I hope with therapy, continued conversations and time… That sense of safety will return. What I do feel safe in is the fact that I know that he only expresses how he truly feels. Sadly, I feel that the fear we are both feeling is like a wall ... Hopefully this is all just part of the normal process. Our anniversary is coming up. I went to buy him a card today… Boy, it is not as easy as it used to be.
Melissa,
DeleteIn my case,when that sense of safety returned, it was different. No longer do I rely on my husband and his presence to provide it, I feel it inside. It just feels different. I have a far stronger conviction that I am safe because I can keep myself safe.
And yes...I hear ya re. the anniversary cards. I tend to go with humor now.
We recently moved, far away from the toxic place we were, thus my name.
DeleteWhile I was cleaning out my desk at work, I came across a handful of cards I had purchased for one of our anniversaries. Some were sappy (must have been a good day) some had obvious walls in place. I had written in each of them...and then discarded for whatever reason. Even though things are better....I find myself giving humor cards as well. Glad I'm not the only one! I don't love him any less now. I think I just love him differently.
I understand you feeling safer when you are together. So natural of a feeling! Don’t question yourself. After DDay we started playing Words with Friends throughout the day. Wasn’t constant. An hour or so would go between each move. But I liked knowing that we had a fun connection all day. And we both knew each person was relying on the other person to make a move. He focused on me, and I liked that.
I will say, though, that in the beginning, I sought out particular words. I was able to spell CHEATER a couple of times. And I always found a way to spell TART when I could. Even if I could get more points from something else…I never passed up TART. Or LIAR. LOL
It’s the little things, right? LOL Hugs :)
Melissa,
DeleteMy H's birthday was three weeks after DDay. I stood in Walmart looking for a card but whatever I picked up said something about how wonderful he is and blah blah blah. I texted my best friend and said " why doesn't Hallmark make a card that says "Happy Birthday to a cheating husband who I still love anyway...". We both had a good laugh and she said I should recommend it to Hallmark. I ended up getting a card with nothing inside so I could write something a little more appropriate to the situation.
As for having that feeling of anxiety, I can relate. I'll go out with my friends or family without H and I'll be fine but after some time I get antsy and need to get out of my surrounding. It isn't always like that but sometimes I feel the need to run. But when I'm with H and we aren't arguing, I feel comfortable and safe. I tell him this and he says its because I'm used to him and comfortable but at the same time I think it's because it feels right for me to be with him. The other day I asked him how he was feeling since he is confused and depressed about everything then it dawned on me and I even made the comment to him saying "It's funny how I ask you how you are doing but you don't ask me.". He took it as a guilt implication but also said he doesn't ask because he doesn't want to get into an argument or talk about the A. But you know what, it makes me feel like he doesn't care. I'm sure he does care how I feel but I'm also not in his head reading his thoughts. Maybe you feel like me sometimes and feel like they should be checking on you continuously because if not it means they are forgetting what they did and the pain they caused and are getting away with the deceit... Well my H stopped checking on me after my 3 month bash fest so now I'm learning how to take care of myself without the help of him or my parents as they have all done throughout my life which is one of my faults I need to work on.
Be strong and I'm sure when your H gets home from his trip it will feel so good to be reconnected :) And let me know how your anniversary day pans out. Mine is in October and I have no idea how it will play out or if it will even be acknowledged...
Lili xxxx
Thank you ladies for the fabulous insight and words of encouragement- as always. My DDay was January 27th of this year and Valentine's Day was a few weeks later. I wrote my husband a long letter ... my sister thinks it should be published. It was raw and hopeful at the same time. Elle, when the day comes I will send it to you ... you decide if it could be "published" on this site.
DeleteAnd Lili, thank you for reminding me to think positively- although I can give others good advice, at times I cannot follow my own and find myself ruminating on negative thoughts ... ie he hasn't called because he doesn't care ... when in fact he has been texting and calling several times daily ....
Hugs all :-)
BetterinNTexas, I love the idea of reconnecting over Words with Friends. That's such a great idea.
DeleteLili, I felt like I couldn't be apart from my husband for the first few months post D-Day. Not sure what it was but it gave us the chance to rely on each other for comfort, which helped.
Melissa,Hang in there. I think you're doing better than you realize. When you find your mind making assumptions about things, remind yourself that you're simple telling yourself stories. That's all it is.
My husband had to be away for work stuff for two weeks during the first month following D-day. Talk about difficult! Hysterical bonding was in full-force then, I was terrified to let him out of my sight. But our counsellor said that this was a good test for us. IDK if it was or not, but we managed to get through it.
Delete~Gee
I had the same trouble with the anniversary card, I never had a problem before but it was so hard and it really hurt to struggle with something that had always been so simple. I also struggle more when we aren't together, somehow it seems easier when he is here but my anxiety is heightened when he is at work. I have had a really hard time of things lately and have spent lots of time crying. He is trying harder than ever and we are talking more without me feeling so angry. We seem to be listening to each other more. So why am I so sad. Maybe I blame myself for not realising this was happening, I so desperately want my life back before he met her. I know I need to let that thought go and forgive myself because I didn't choose this but I don't know how. Is it just time? I'm so tired of the time that this is stealing from me, I think I'm scared to allow myself to feel happy. If I do will he think I'm over it and it doesn't matter? By feeling like this it feels like I'm punishing myself for something he did wrong. I thought we had a wonderful strong marriage, I held onto the fact that we were each other's first love and to realise that he didn't talk to me about his feelings and that things weren't as perfect as I was lead to believe have really hurt me. I am struggling with the fact that he has now slept with someone else. How do I let that go? He knew how much I valued the fact that we had only been with each other. Sorry for the very long post ( like I say it has been really difficult lately, and my head seems to be going around in circles). I wonder is this like jumping from a plane where you know it's going to be scary but you just jump? For those who have decided that the load is too heavy to carry anymore were you scared of letting it go. How did you do it. How do you know when you are ready to move a little further along the path. How do you forgive yourself for not realising things weren't how you thought they were. I told him I wasn't sure that I would ever be able to forgive him maybe it's because I am finding it hard to forgive myself. Sorry for rambling I just needed to talk to someone.
ReplyDeleteAlone,
DeleteStart with yourself. Let yourself off the hook for being loyal. For trusting. Those are not bad things. It was HIS mistake, not yours. So begin there by just accepting that you were a loyal trusting wife. He was lucky to have you.
Tell yourself that over and over and over. Stop with the negative self-talk. Just cut it right off.
And then...know that sadness is part of this. It doesn't mean you're not healing. It doesn't mean you're regressing. It means you're sad. And you've got plenty to be sad about. You won't be sad forever...but you're sad right now. And that's okay. Keep doing what you're doing -- talking, processing, working through the pain.
The day will come when the clouds will part. And when that happens, let it. Embrace the slivers of light, knowing that they, too, are part of healing. So much of getting through is about getting out of our own way. Trusting the process. Letting ourselves feel the bad and the good, knowing that both are part of this. Accepting that your story is being rewritten and that's okay. There are no "perfect" marriages. No fairy tales. Just flawed people trying to get through the best they can. And there's something heroic in that.
Alone,
DeleteI spent 2 years trying to figure out how to let it go. Part of me didn’t want to let it go. The pain (or pain shopping…I think I read that here) became such a huge part of me. For a long time it was me. The pain reminded me that something happened. The pain reminded HIM of what he did to me. I was afraid that if I let the pain go, that he would be off the hook, and that was not fair. If I let it go, will I recognize the situation if it happens again? The pain made it all so real and kept me on my toes.
But I’m not a ballerina. My toes really started to hurt.
I think all I can say is TIME. Time is all that helped me. Sure, it was combined with me taking care of myself and loving myself again. And he being oh-so-good to me and really trying. But in the end, it was time and all of the emotions you will go through with that time.
I struggled with forgiving. Can I forgive him? Have I forgiven him? I stayed, of course I forgave him. It’s the forgetting that is hard. I still think about it. I’m here, on this site, aren’t I? But it feels better when I think about it. I don’t cry anymore. I don’t hate him anymore.
I wrote this before, but it still resonates with me. My sister told me, “You have to forgive yourself for staying with him.” That was a game changer.
I punished myself for a long time for staying. I thought it meant I wasn’t worth a good man. My conversations almost always started with “I should have left him.” But I stayed because I knew the man that did that to me was not the man I married. And I knew the man I married was still there. And if you know that, then just keep breathing. In and out. And let Time do what it does best.
Elle,
DeleteYour post no perfect marriage... My h and I have come to understand our perfect marriage is two imperfect people that refuse to give up on each other! It helps when each of us remember that we are not perfect!
Elle and BetterinNTexas
DeleteThank you
BetterNTexas, I remember reading that post where you said "You have to forgive yourself for staying with him.". At the time, I wasn't at a point where I could really grasp it. I'm getting there now. I just posted yesterday about how I've fallen back into questioning what it says about me that I'm staying. What you've said, what Elle has said and what I'm learning as I go through this are my reminders that his past actions and mistakes say nothing about me. Like you, I chose to stay because I know that he's a good man who made bad choices.
DeleteAs impatient as I am, I'm learning to accept that so much of this just takes time. In the very early days, I thought I would never feel happiness again. But I have. I thought we would never share intimate moments without images of him and the OW popping into my head. But we have. Surely, the rest will also pass. It just takes time.
Forgiving yourself for staying with him...boy, does that hit home for me. I was beating myself up because I put up with a dying sex-life and an emotionally absent husband for almost 13 years. I was beating myself up for not leaving years ago. I was beating myself up for "allowing" this to happen. I was beating myself up for not valuing myself more (because beating yourself up more is really valuing yourself, right?). I finally realized I was being my own worst enemy. If I'd been as strong back then as I am now, I wouldn't have put up with it. But I realize that I really didn't know any better. I really didn't believe I had any value (thanks abusive mom!). I honestly did the best that I could with what I had. I had to forgive myself for not loving myself more. Once I did that, I actually could start loving myself properly.
Delete~Gee
Melissa ... did sane thing in my anni ... cards blah... i recall standing in store reading teary eyed and then angry reading words saying. Not anymore ... yeah right ... used to think do .... not right now.
ReplyDeleteMy h turned a big leaf last week telling me what i believe to be 90% + of the detail. Showing me details letting me take over $ and yet the past 2 days seems now distance. Not as affectionate and not wanting to be intimate. .. i know 2 days but we had been very active since dday ... he also was saying he feels like im gonna cheat or im being sneaky hus guards up? I dont know if its his guilt shame or because he doesnt feel after what i did he deserves my love ... i trt to talk sensible to him but sometimes end up arguing ...i feel pushed like dont turn this shit on me ...accuse me of things u did he said he doesnt know why hes feeling this was. Makes me on edge and paranoid again ... i suppose it could be his fears coming oyt negatively or in a way not to feel the saddness. Idk .... or my fear that hes talking to ow again. Hope not. i know up and down round and round ... things will change daily as we both try to figure it out. Sighhhh.
His fears about your cheating are his own stuff. Of course, he's afraid. He realizes how easily it can happen. But this isn't about you, it's about him.
DeleteDon't engage with him. Tell him that you're not planning to cheat and then discuss how you can create a marriage in which each partner feels heard and valued so that, should temptation ever arise for either of you, you can turn to the marriage instead of to an outside person.
H and i were having alot of intimacy and all this sudden hes turned off sexually? Puts ne on edge. I know too much ow was very kinky ... i feek it was her way of hooking ... entrapment if you will ... sex can b like drugs. Wonder if hell miss that ... get over that ... a l ways desire that. Its not that im a prued by far but also dont know id be as experimental in some aspects. ... he sees now alot of what ow did was to benefit get and get things in return but still ... will this haunt us ....idk just thinking outloud. His distance puts me on edge. We went thru hysterical bonding now this. Sighhhhh. Your blog came just as i needed how do you do that? Lol great writing insight thoughts we all can relate to. Was feeling hopeful today down ans teary eyed . This to shall pass.... just as i have up downs H is in same boat too ... maybe worse in some aspects as hes dealing w emotions from both of us i imagine even though i feel like im only one that should matter. .. he sees that and agrees hes not catering to ow i mean like hes dealing emotionally with it all more so himself him doing this .... sighhhhhh
ReplyDeleteI see my H as very strong no bs off noone kinda guy it seems the ow sucked his self esteem. Treated him with name calling and talking down and he said he took it because of the fear of me finding out ..... i will never understand this .... wonder how i can help him feel better or maybe the gulit and shame intensify this. He has to fix himself one positive earlier on he was w me at house but his mind was still feeling guikt ow is she ok ... etc. He finally swifted agreeing w me that just being home isnt being present and ow isnt his obligation i need to be he admitted if he starts thinking about her he tries to overpower those thoughts by thinking of me maybe similar to the stop sign method i use at times. I hope this is progress? Idk one day at times i see hes trying we have bumps shut downs along way but much more talking by him which i think is him processing even if its talking abiut ow i try to stay levelheaded even when it hurts in hindsight he feels very muknipulated and used by ow ... maybe she feels same ... idk all fantasyland bullshit and gobs of alcohol and money from my view. Im in for long haul and so hope we can get through this ... trying days.
ReplyDeleteRe-read what you wrote, especially this: "He has to fix himself..." So true. You can't do this for him. He needs to figure out what he was thinking and why he made the choice he did. This is his journey.
DeleteDay went from bad to worse ... hello swollen crying eyes ... how can we make si much progress from one week to 25 steps by today! Husband seems on edge as above just like last month when he talked to ow again .... last month on edge on brushed off today i asked him. Talking to ow again? He didnt like to be accused!!! Calm im asking not accussung. The conversation heighten i ve notice some home project stuff which ive seen at our home hes trying to keep busy clean up to do list which i can appreciate but some things seem ??? Why r we doing that ao i asked calm ... do u think some of the shopping and projects are excessive or needed? Like shopping to substitute his pain ... granted all was for our home. ... he became enraged. ... maybe i shouldn't have said anything. ... he started being disrespectful which is not our norm i refused to engage name calling back but did continue on ... and i demanded i be treated w respect as i treat him ... downfall i said u may have talked to " insert" ow name here and iw to u but thats not our relationship. He continued name calling. .. ending w hes unhappy ... im complaining asking him stupid things. Money etc. I said be careful words can burn and i deserve more. He said he deserves more too im not doing ny part and wait for it .... i should leave him alone and go to bed so he can sneak out! Granted hes still here but sleeping in another room ... his choice. We just went on a date night so i asked why attend date nights if u feel so unhappy with me? I mean really ... this combined with his new not wanting to be sexual w me has me boggled ... not sure hes feeling controlled under my thumb? He said everything has to be ur way? Humm no everything was your way for a long time thus ur long term affair! Idk if hes talking to ow again he said no. Missing ow or perhaps the freedom of being out or hes just disgusted with his own self. My anxiety is building as is sleepless nights again. 3 mo in currently. .. rollercoaster for sure. I know we are all entitled to sime freak out moments but when hes like this and distant vs loving and accountable im at a lose and return to an on edge ... yelling at my kids cant focus zombie and the scab us ripped off again. Just had t I vent i feel so alone.
DeleteSCREAM! H txt me hes leaving work aggrevated about our marriage. No sleep ... going to think? I said r u going home? Only to change???? Im at work this is totally bs i said to myself i refuse to engage in fighting i responded id ask specfics but if u wanted me to kniw youd tell me ... h response thats right .... big wtf and of course i do think is he going to see ow? Where is he going??? Honestly i thought about this all night .... what can i really control anyways ....i just hope if he does want us to work he gets his head out of his ass before im at my wits end. The book said not to push that drives him away but sometimes if i dont he takes it like i dont care ... no win .... a part of ne feels like whatever he thought sex w ow was ... i will never compare not that i couldnt ve down or even want to be like her ... but fkexability wise i work house kids and do want intimacy however hours on end dirty whenever wherever ... not possible like ow who has no other responsibilities but to be a whore. Im heartbroken. Confused why hes so aggrevated and turned from responsive and accountable to angry and stand off. Big wtf anxiety tears sweating ... sure another 5 pounds will shed this week. Suppose to have family get together this wkend .... maybe should cxl. I feel weighed down again on edge cement feet and my heart feels squeezed into my ribs ... heart attack. Anxiety .... frustrated and just down ... have no choice to keep trucking along .... ill cry tonight on deck when everyones asleep. .. obsessing thoughts returned. I feel his leaving going not saying where is complete bullshit not considerate of me ... said i could go next weekend??? What???? Im not leaving my house. Family .... wtf would i go anyways and i think is this about ow. Sex. Himself or maybe he is truly having a midlife crisis? ??? Well never be in their heads to get it totally i guess all i know is the would feels deeper ever time this attitude of his errupts. Are the date nights loving thoughts fake. How can u go so hot and cold. Is tgat the same but diff as me being functional to swallowed feeling? All i know ive never said i wanted a divorce. Want to leave whatever no im here RIGHT here trying to tread in this thick sea of shit. At least he was here with me which made it seem more manageable. ... will he be home when i get there ... the weekend maybe telling ..... sad scared mad anxious tired reaching grasping trying to hold on .....
DeleteIf only short term disability could apply to this shit .... work sad sleepless nights kuds house repeat ... repeat repeat i was so hopeful now so boggled. Who knows he could just b at home but why fuck w my mind? Thats how it feels anyways .... maybe not to him he said at times id b better if he left? ??? Really i dont think so.
DeleteTotally confused H just showed up at my work with a floral arrangement. Said he loves me and doesn't like how we spoke to each other .... my nerves r soooo on edge. Hes not leaving work he only left to get me flowers. I felt need tell ya ladies been a hell of a day. Tgif. Wine for dinner. ? ?????? Still anxious and on edge.
DeleteAnonymous, I wish I had some words of advice to help with what you're feeling. It makes my heart hurt to read about the pain you are going through and the roller coaster of emotions. I think many of us have been on a similar roller coaster. I'm impressed that you had the strength and wisdom not to resort to name calling even in the midst of your hurt. I was rarely that strong in the beginning. I have an incredibly hot temper and tend to be like a runaway train once I get going. For my husband and I, therapy helped A LOT in how we communicate with each other about his affair. I'm not sure if it's appropriate to mention it here, but we started a free online marriage boot camp on the Affair Recovery website. It's a little religious, but as long as you don't mind that, maybe it could help. I wish we had found it earlier than we did.
DeleteI pray for some peace and clarity for you. I hope you are able to find some moments where you can get away from this and just breathe.
Hugs!
Anonymous,
DeleteI think there's a big difference between giving him time to get his head out of the fog and tolerating emotional abuse. He has no right to speak to you disrespectfully. HE cheated on YOU. The onus is on him to make amends. You do not have to tippy toe around him out of fear of "pushing" him.
Have you read about the 180? It's a great way for you to re-establish boundaries and make it clear that you are not going to put up with his hot-and-cold nonsense. You can read about it here: https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/
What's more, if you're not in therapy, please find someone. You really need support and clarity around this. What he's doing is just not okay.
Agreed ... before this fights were far between slim to none apparently disrespect fights yelling was common with H and the ow relationship. While i can have a hot head as can he name calling wasnt common occurrence nor one ok and i noted i will not engage and deserve more that sleepless night seems he did alot of thinking thus the flowers in am we had good weekend and he said flowers were not only bcuz of his words but thoughts he knows he has to put me first and fighting doesn't help us he newly referres to ow as static noise ... new revelation and is seeing now why he did it and knows the gain is nowhere near what could be lost. Hes angered now he really sees what it was and what he spent. .. dumbfounded almost guess that fog is thick and while im still hurting i hope we continue to cope heal talk ... take down walls open windows to get thru this mess. Ow still lurking but he hasn't responded and so far hes telling me or showing me ... h still has few items there deciding to get or leave it alone .... day by day very much thx for ur ladies responses.
Delete180 ill look more into it ... ive read beyond the affair and not just friends
DeleteOnce again, what you've written has come at the perfect time. So much seems to be falling in place for my husband and me. We're having open conversations about many things that he kept inside for years, he is very apologetic and remorseful, we're moving forward in our therapy, I've recognized that some of what I've been doing is not healthy for either of us in our recovery and I'm working on it. Yet, in the past week, I've started to beat myself up all over again. How can I stay with someone who did this to me? What does it say about me? I know the affair had nothing to do with me, so why do I keep falling back into this pattern of blaming myself.
ReplyDeleteI, too, have always been a bit of a perfectionist (maybe more than a bit... LOL) and a control freak. So, yes, the illusion of my "perfect" life is now tarnished and what happened was beyond my control and can't be undone.
I love my husband. I believe that he's a good person who made a huge, selfish mistake, one that he lives with the pain of every day. I believe that he wants to fix the issues that allowed him to do this in the first place and he's showing me that in his actions. But, my pride just keeps getting in the way.
I've just picked up "How Can I Forgive You?" and I'm hoping that will help me in some way. I had a lengthy conversation with my therapist about how so much of what bothers me has to do with my "control issues". I'm working on me. I'm hoping that with time will come more acceptance and release.
Dandelion,
DeleteThat's a huge hurdle for so many of us. We think staying means we're doormats, that we're somehow saying it was "okay". And it certainly means that our lovely life now includes an unsavoury chapter or two.
But what if we reframe it? What if, instead of looking at it as something embarrassing and pathetic and disgusting, we look at it as a struggle that we faced with grace and humility? What if we accept that life is not a glossy commercial but dirty and scruffy and disappointing sometimes? That rebuilding something from the rubble isn't failure but triumph?
I've come to feel very proud of what I've done by staying. I feel strong and confident (for the most part -- we all have our days...), not weak and pathetic. We each get to make our own choice and I made a choice. I continue to make it every day. There's strength in that.
I have a question for everyone ... i go in waves from hopeful to sad to alone to positive ... some days, today ... if i really let myself feel the hurt and think about what happened its a deep pain that i feel like im being swallowed and silently screaming inside. Am i just numb is the worse of reality yet to come am i burying it pushing it down to not fall to my knees or am i processing absorbing and learning to navigate get thru? Today bad day my H feeling chanlleges which he voiced not sexually in tuned almist turned off and what seems like distance running off on me ... i just feel like crying. Sorry 4 so many posts feeling alone again and hoping H is just processing too trying to cope and now talking to ow again ... he went back once after dday already we discussed and made amends but if again?????? Hum.mmm..... whats a girl to do ..
ReplyDeleteI said before if he were that conflicted he should ho there for a few weeks which would kill me. I dont think i meant it more like ... go try full time fantasyland??? He says he knows he wants to be home w me not there ... guess im on edge. Feeling alone ... and its causing me to ramble. .. i know stay positive go w flow avoid what if. Whys and maybes. Thx ladies
Anon,
DeleteThis is a roller coaster. You will have many ups and downs. I know it feels like the pain will swallow you whole but it won't. None of us have died of a broken heart...though some of us have wished we could.
The pain subsides. But let yourself feel it all. The only way out is through.
This is definitely a roller coaster. I am having one of those sad waves today. Today is our 27th wedding anniversary (32 years together). D' day was 21 months ago. My H was seeing the OW when we celebrated our 24 & 25th wedding anniversary's. For our 25th, we had a huge party with over 120 of our friends. Now on our 27th, I think about that party and wonder 'How could he have done that'. How could he celebrate our love with all of our friends and family, while cheating on me. How could he face all of us and laugh and have fun knowing he was sleeping with another woman. D' Day was 2 months after our anniversary celebration. At these times, when I think about the things we did together while he was having the affair, I feel the pain again and I feel as you described like I'm being swallowed. It's an overwhelming grief, even almost 2 years later. I can't comprehend how he could be so loving with me, going on vacations, laughing with friends, celebrating anniversary's, birthdays, enjoying family time, all while he has this OW in the background. This woman he's screwing and professing his love too, writing her poems and telling her he's going to leave me. It's the lies that hurt the most. It's the questioning what was really real and what was fake. If he really loved me, how could he do this to me. How could he hurt me so badly. If he really loved her, how could he celebrate our love and still be loving to me. How could I not know it was happening? How could I blindly trust? And how do I trust his love for me now? What I question more than anything is his love for me. I don't question if I am good enough or worthy of love or pretty enough. I know I am deserving; I am a good person and I am worthy of love. But what I question still at times, is if He really loves me. He says he does, he's now doing all the right things, and has been totally remorseful, but does he really love me. It's the hardest thing to reconcile for me. If he really loves me, how could he have betrayed me and caused me so much pain. And not just once, but repeatedly, over and over again he made a choice to betray me, daily/weekly for 2 years. How do you do that to someone you love?
DeleteAll I can say is that these doubts or questions still creep in, but after 19 months they are occurring less and less. The overwhelming pain occurs less and less each day. It does get better. I have noticed many improvements in our marriage. We talk more, touch more, feel more, share more with each other. I feel like for a while we were living as roommates,becoming distant and now we are lovers again, sharing our intimate hopes, dreams, desires and fears. I see more and more light at the end of the tunnel each day. I have to remind myself of that on days that remind me of the pain.
SR
SR, those questions sound all too familiar. I can't wrap my head around the decisions my husband made and his affair went on for about 2 1/2 years progressing from friendship to a sexual affair. We've had so many conversations where I've asked what he was thinking and how he managed to do it. The answers come back to selfishness, arrogance and some serious compartmentalizing. He has said himself it was like a double life. But looking back, I can see that despite that, it took a toll on him. He lost about 35 lbs, drank too much and was short tempered with me and our kids among other things.
DeleteI don't like to think about the person he was during the affair and those thoughts tend to come more quickly on sad days.
But on the good days, I'm able to focus on the changes we are both making, the positive things happening in our relationship and the fact that we're both still here and working to build something better.
Yes to what Dandilion stated so beautifully! We still have days of doubt but our strength can get us through those doubts!
DeleteThis is all too familiar. And to be honest this helps me so much. I feel like I am reading about myself. My husband had two what I would call sporadic affairs. He speaks of the same selfishness, compartementalizing, self destructiveness etc. He said once he did it once he hated himself and it just continues downhill. For him he said that is why it was sporadic. He was semi detached from everyone in his life.
DeleteI ask myself all of the questions you all state above. Special days are hard and buying an anniversary card felt like a minefield. I mean boy they just pour it on thick the "ideal" marriage etc. one thing that helped me decide if I wanted to stay is at least for now I know I want to try everything possible to make this work. I know personally I would have regrets if I walked away at this point. I just know that internally. I cannot predict the future but I can give it my all. And as far as enjoying special days like anniversaries etc I think back to our history good and bad all our memories good and bad. And those are our memories. No one can take that away from us. We like to say we are redefining our marriage. I cannot throw away the past all together good and bad but we will have a better and stronger marriage. And like someone said then hopefully when there are challenges in life we turn towards each other.
John Gottman's books especially the one on betrayal and now the marriage one have helped me a ton. It really connects with me and is science based. I feel like his work has been pivital in understanding my husband and his affairs and also how to work towards a better marriage.
Thank you to this blog for being a spot to seek out reassurance that I am not the only one or in this alone. I felt really alone for a long time. My husband does not understand why I feel this way but coming on this blog has helped that feeling come less often.
There's not much I can say except that those feelings of confusion become fewer. It's something we all have to work through, I think.
DeleteI'm not sure we'll ever really know how our husbands made the choices they did...and then lived that double life. There's some excitement to it, I imagine. But I've no doubt it takes its toll unless he's a complete sociopath. My husband, too, began drinking more, his health suffered -- both physical and mental. His work suffered. You can only keep up the charade for so long and the more he wanted out, the more trapped he felt by it, knowing full well that he had nobody to blame but himself. He was so relieved when it was finally over...even though he then had to deal with me.
So much easier to just stay faithful, isn't it?
What a timely post this is for me. One of the things I felt guilty of was not stopping him--as though that were in my power.
ReplyDeleteJust as this article was posted I had a calm chat with my husband-- no name calling no accusations no derogatory sarcastic witticisms. I told him I knew the 2 sexual affair partners & the 1 emotional affair woman were "after him". I knew they were flirting and even though I myself have little or no relationship experience I guess I could sense that they were tryin to snag him/steal him from me.
The first would spend a long time talking to him on the phone. I used to tell him what married woman w 3 kids has so much time to spend on the phone talking to a married man? She must be after something. He denied it or couldn't see it or didn't want to believe it.
Well during our conversation recently he told me I was right-- everything I said about them turned out to be correct. He was going for casual sex on the side and they were going for replacements for their current husbands rather than working on their own marriages.
I asked him should I feel guilty that I suspected but didn't know what to say to stop him from cheating. He said no-- I warned him that they were interested and that I was afraid things would escalate & he didn't listen. Like many people those were lessons he ended up having to learn first hand for himself.
I still feel guilty sometimes bit slowly over time I am learning to forgive myself.
Sam, You brought up a good point and one that my husband and I have talked about more than once. My husband's primary goal in the affair was sex and he would do/say whatever to facilitate that. He told the OW from fhe beginning that it was an affair, plain and simple, and that he would never leave me. It seems the OW agreed to that because my husband complimented her and made to feel good about herself which she said her own husband didn't do. But somewhere along the way, she started giving him ultimatums that she wasn't going to be the "girl on the side" anymore and that she wasn't going to have sex with him anymore "unless they were both single". So I wonder if she went into it thinking it would be "just an affair" or whether her intent was always to get him out of his marriage. Some of my anger stems from that. Why would you knowingly set out to destroy someone's marriage? I guess ultimately, my husband did the same to her marriage whether it was passively or actively. For some reason, I see actively doing that as more offensive. Without getting inside her head, I'll never really know what her motive was. But on the days where I really feel like I hate her, I try to remember that, regardless of what her intent was, she traded her morals and values for compliments and trashy sex in the backseat of his truck. Clearly, she is either an awful person or she had incredibly low self esteem. In either case, she is broken in some way.
DeleteHad another lengthy conversation with my husband today about what I posted above. I'm reading "How Can I Forgive You?" to try to help with some of the remaining anger. After more reading, I think maybe it's not as black and white as I tstated in my previous post. Could the OW be an awful person? Yes. Could she have really low self esteem? Yes. But could she also fall somewhere in the middle? That's something I hadn't even considered. Could she be an average person who made a series of bad choices and mistakes like my husband did? I don't condone her actions and I don't necessarily have to forgive her, but I need to do something besides hate her. Not for her, but for myself.
DeleteI hope I'm able to remember this the next time the anger starts to well up.
Dandelion,
DeleteI was able to go from venomous hatred to a certain pity for the OW. I came to see that she was, as you wrote, "broken". Nobody tolerates the level of disregard it takes to be an OW unless you're willing to settle. I think a lot of what OW tell themselves -- that things are better with them, they're more exciting, the sex is better, blah blah blah -- are what they need to believe in order to carry on doing what they're doing. If they admitted what is the more likely case -- that these guys are using them to escape feelings of stress or fear or whatever -- they'd be out the door. So yes...broken.
Sam, I have that problem. I knew he would talk to her even get messages from her ( why wouldn't he they worked together I didn't think there was anything to it). One time ( before he silenced his phone so I wouldn't know every time it rang ) I thought she was texting a lot which felt uncomfortable but he told me some lie and I fell for it. Then I didn't know when his phone rang it was on silent and never away from him. I didn't even realise she was still texting and calling him. Now I know that's a sign but at the time it didn't cross my mind. It's not my fault why would I think anything different. I questioned him about a feeling I had he reassured me I was wrong so I trusted him. That's why I did trust. I have a hard time with this, I should have dug deeper, questioned more. But why, I am trying to remind myself I didn't have a reason to. Like Elle reminded me I was loyal and that's not wrong, he was lucky to have that. I think when things didn't add up they somehow make them seem like they did. My H told me he worked very hard to keep this from me. Yours probably did the same. If there were any clues how would you know as you like me probably weren't looking for them.
DeleteDandelion, after reading your post wondering about the OW, my husband said the same thing to the psycho kinder garden teacher. When I talked to her about why she settled when he told her, he loved me and would never leave, she said, she just wanted his friendship and benefits. She didn't give a damn about anything except what she wanted. The OW as I read more is desperate to have what we have and will make plans to do whatever it takes to move us out and them in. The OW told me she just wanted a man to love her the way my husband loved me. These woman have no life, no money, no love, many times are abused by other men, on disability, desperate. My husbands OW had three friends with benefits while they were scewing it up. That way if one man dropped her she still had the other two men. She seemed to keep this going until some man would give her what she was looking for. Your husband "was had". She wanted your life with your husband at any cost. She wanted a friend and he took the benefits. The OW told me sex was not that great but she gave him the benefits (sex) because she wanted him to stay around and could not bear the thought of him leaving. She said, who would take care of her? She could depend on my husband. These woman have nothing so anything that walks like a man is good. It could have been any woman for your husband, there is nothing special about the OW. Only desperate woman give ultimatums. Don't compare yourself, your are not desperate and better in everyday, your husband sees and knows that. She doesn't care a flip about morals because that won't get her what she wants. Have you ever been desperate? I have and it is survival only that counts. I left a first marriage because my husband beat me, I was desperate, no money, no family, no support, no resources. I didn't look for married men but I did look for single rich men. Didn't find one but I managed to survive by sleeping in friends basements, on couches and sought safe places. I digress. It takes a awhile to get yourself out from under the OW's thumb but you can do it.
ReplyDeleteWhat you describe is so true. The OW in my situation was having financial trouble, she had many bad relationships, supposedly suffered from mental illness, had a bad childhood (who didn't) blah, blah, blah. She used all of these things to play on my husband's heartstrings and make him feel needed. What I learned is that she flirts with men (married or single) to entice them into buying promotional products for their companies. I'm sure my husband wasn't the first married man and won't be the last. And here is my issue, I feel responsible to try to prevent her from doing this to another innocent women. If there was some way I could get through to her as to how devastating this is and how much damage she is doing, then I would do it. If only to prevent her from hurting someone else. The problem is intellectually I know she won't listen or see it from any other point of view but her own. She is selfish and narcissistic. She tried every trick in the book to keep my husband, playing on his emotions by saying how much she needed him and couldn't live without him, sleeping with other men to make him jealous, threatening to expose the affair to me and/or his company, even threatening suicide. She even attempted suicide in front of her 20 year old son, so he had to take her to the hospital to get her stomach pumped. She was definitely unstable, which made it scary for me after D'day, when my H ended things and she kept trying to contact him. I had no idea what she would do. I decided that it would do no good to confront her in any way, but I find it hard to let go of the feeling that I should have done something to prevent her from doing this again. That's the hardest part about keeping the secret of the affair. When a spouse cheats and leaves his wife, often the affair is exposed and people learn what happened and see some of the devastation, but when a spouse cheats and they stay together, they struggle through privately, usually with very few people knowing. It feels dishonest and irresponsible. At times I want to tell every couple to be careful, that this can happen to anyone. Everyone thought (and most still think) that my husband and I have the perfect marriage, that my husband is the perfect husband, that I am so lucky, that we are so lucky. As we receive congratulations for being one of those couples that are still together after so many years, while I used to feel proud, now I sometimes feel like a fraud. If you only knew, do those two years still count, while he was married to me, but screwing another woman. Sometimes I want to say I love my husband and he's a great man, but he's not perfect. He has hurt me worse than I've ever been hurt me in my life.
DeleteWow, sorry I digressed a little there, I guess that was needing to come out. My point was that I wish I could somehow let people know before they cheat or become the accomplice to cheating how devastating it really is. Before it happened to me, I had no idea. I knew it would hurt and thought I would be angry (and single) but I never imagined the depths of pain I would feel and the devastating affects it would have on my entire life. It shattered my existence, everything I believed in and trusted. It honestly felt like my world blew up. I thought I might actually die of a broken heart. If I could save one person from going through this, it would be worth it.
SR
SR,
DeleteI often feel the same way. And I think your response -- "he's not perfect" -- is a valid one. I might be tempted to add, "and neither am I". I do frequently say that I don't know a single marriage that hasn't had its challenges. People can deduce what they want from that. But it helps me from feeling like a fraud.
re. the OW: As noble as it is to save innocent wives from her, I think it's impossible. There will always be another victim who refuses to believe it can happen. What you could do is, if you happen to be aware of where she's focussing her attention, offer a cryptic warning, along the lines of: she's a serial seductress who has left a lot of destruction in her wake. That's heartbreaking re. her son.
And yes, few of us were prepared for just how devastating betrayal is. It is devastating. I actually wanted to die, I was so heartbroken. I couldn't imagine ever NOT feeling that pain. However, like any emotion, the pain dissipates and, with work, we uncover emotions like gratitude and compassion. We come out the other side.
"Maybe the only person who ever had to truly choose me was me."
ReplyDeleteSo much truth. And this is where I struggle. And with this struggle comes growth. Through IC, even before the affair, I learned that all children strive for attention- and when you come from a family of 11 children, attention from Mom and Dad is stretched thin. Attention equates to love. I took on the role of perfectionist to attempt to gain attention, to attempt to be loved. Through counseling and through life I learned two important lessons 1) there is no such thing as perfect and 2) I am lovable and loved even when I am ... in the middle.
Having said that, the affair and subsequent confusion of my husband whether he wants to be married or not .... stirred the pot and brought those sinking fears right back to the surface. With the fears come the negative thoughts ... which must be ... and are ... challenged.
Melissa,
DeleteNot sure if I've mentioned to you before the book "This is not the story you think it is" by Laura Munson. Her husband announced he wanted out of the marriage. The book was based on this Modern Love column: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fashion/02love.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
It reminds me a bit of what your husband says to you. His conflictedness. Curious what you think.
Yes Elle, you had and it was great to read again. Similar "advice" is found in the book "The Divorce Remedy." And ... it all reminds me to look back to where he and I were just after DDay or during separation - we are stronger now, but perhaps more importantly, I am stronger now ... as you noted, building my own safety. Thank you Elle.
DeleteLynn,
ReplyDeleteThere is absolute truth in what you've said too. Her behavior showed that she was desperate, willing to settle for being treated like a whore as long as he told her she was beautiful. Why, I don't know, but my guess is unhappiness in her own marriage and low self esteem. In her mind, spending time (sex in parking lots) with her and complimenting her was equal to love. They both manipulated each other. He got his physical desires fulfilled and she got her emotional needs addressed. The unfortunate part is the cost at which it came.
I have faith that I'll get through and will come out stronger and far more self aware. As I told her, I can hold my head high knowing that I did nothing wrong, neither she nor my husband can say the same.
Thanks for your words!
My H's situation was kind of the opposite. He was the one suffering from depression and life-long low self-esteem who had sex with her to keep the adoration and compliments coming. He's said repeatedly the the sex wasn't good and he didn't actually want it, but he did it as a kind of reciprocation for what she was giving him. She was the one in it for the sex (he's since found out that she's a diagnosed sex addict and has borderline personality disorder). It lasted for a little over 3 weeks before he finally told her that he didn't want to continue. She agreed, but almost immediately started a campaign of deceit (claiming abuse by her fiancé) in order to keep him tied to her. Unfortunately for him, she'd decided that he was the "perfect man" and wanted to keep him (unlike MOST of her previous married conquests) and replace her current partner (who she'd "stolen" from another co-worker 4 years prior). She pretended that they'd gone back to being friends, but led him around on a string by pretending to fear for her life (she knew his father had been a bully and had abused the women in the family). And once she's successfully manipulated my H to the point where the relationship became a rescue mission, she pulled out all the stops and attempted to destroy our marriage in a number of ways. She was downright diabolical and no amount of stewing over her behavior is ever going to make me understand the way she thinks.
DeleteI'm learning to come to terms with why my husband made the choices that he did and trying to find a way to forgive him. He was severely depressed and at his lowest point in his life and someone he considered a friend suddenly started telling him that he was everything any woman could ever want....something he'd never heard from his hyper-critical wife. So yes, I have to learn how to forgive myself as well...for years of making him feel less-than due to my own issues.
Sometimes; I almost feel guilty for the huge amount of shame he feels and my part in perpetuating it when he has to help me deal with my grief over the betrayal. I now acknowledge that I spent years hurting him, even when he tried to tell me how it made him feel. To me weakness was unacceptable, so I ignored his pain.
I may not have cheated, but I definitely bear a great deal of responsibility for the state of my marriage. And that's a hard pill to swallow.
Dana,
DeleteHard pill to swallow for sure. But I'm not sure there's any among us who doesn't recognize that we've made mistakes. Maybe not cheating mistakes...but hurtful nonetheless. That's what healing does. Not only does it help us move through the pain of betrayal, it helps us heal long-ago wounds that have continued to impact how we live. When we know better, we do better.
Elle....And I am definitely "doing better", had started a month or so before I learned of his betrayal (I didn't find out until the PA had been over for about 5 months) because I'd finally realized that I was in danger of losing the only man I'd ever loved. I just wish we could have had this renewal without the pain of his choices.
DeleteNope, I didn't cheat, but I don't know that, stacked up next to each other, the long term pain I put him through wouldn't be at least equivalent or close to it (or, God help me, exceed it). The pain of betrayal is so visceral that I'm not sure how it actually stacks up to the pain of criticism and dissatisfaction...but for my H, my behavior had been very emasculating, which is a horrible place to be in for a man with so much childhood shit to contend with.
That's not to say that our marriage was always bad...it wasn't. We are extremely compatible in many ways and have always considered ourselves best friends (still do), but we had serious issues we were ignoring.
A few weeks after d-day, H told me that the only positive he could find in our situation is that he finally learned how much I loved HIM...not some ideal of who I thought he should be. That if I could still love him after what he'd done, he could have no more doubts. Ouch.
Dana your story sounds so similar to mine, I too feel I let my husband down
DeleteOver our 12 yr marriage. I at times made him feel inadequate, as a man husband and father. Looking back that must have crushed his self worth and I deeply regret that. Post d day I treat him with the respect he deserves. He has taken steps forward I'm
Our marriage I never though it could/ would. And I really am proud of him, I sometimes find it hard to say it to him, suppose that's me holding a little back.
One thing he told me days after d day which really makes me sad is that ' he never knew I cared that much about him' it was only when he saw me on my knees and in tears that he realised I did care. Xx
H knew i loved hom but didnt feel that ride or die love after we had family on dday i had went w him to ow to retrieve something. .. well i demanded to go .... even though it was a terrible time that night he said it maybe wrong to feel he said me going there defending him sticking by him showed i had his back and ge hadn't felt that in long time ... i wish he could hear how i always spoke of him to others perhaps i forgot to tell him ...thought i did ... busy work family house repeat. ...working on that. Just thought id add on.
DeleteWhere is my place in the middle? Feeling the infidelity heaviness today. The single most difficult pursuit is truth and love. Love in truth. Truth in love. Both grammatically correct. Put them together and you are in the ride of your life. Hang on. Never one at the expense of the other. Don't embrace me with your love without the torch of truth. Don't give me the heat of truth without the warmth of love. To pursue both is our burden.
ReplyDeleteLynn, and all, I am feeling the loss of love or perhaps, more accurately, the uncertainties of love. My husband, even through the affair, was so demonstrative and verbal about his love for me. (Except for the last year, of the affair now that I look back on it.). Now, it is returning… Albeit, very slowly. And seems to come and go in waves. One of the reasons I chose my husband was because he was so demonstrative in his love for me. I hate to say I need that… But I need that. And if I don't need it, I can certainly say I want it.
ReplyDeleteToday I was with two elderly women and they were talking about how they met their husbands many many years previously. In the past, I would have joyfully added my story to the mix. Today, I sat silently. I truly feel if my husband could jump right in there… And consistently show his love for me, as he did before, I would feel so much better. And then I think… Is some of that simply in my imagination? Am I needing more right now? Frankly, I don't want to literally ask for more… As I want it to be natural and for me to know that it comes from the truth. As Lynn so eloquently put it… Love in truth… Truth in love. I will continue to move forward and work toward my best self and my best relationship, however, I know in my heart I can "get over" the affair, yet I cannot live without feeling loved. Time will tell.
Melissa I totally get where you're coming from. I would speak about my husband on the daily to everyone because he's got such an interesting job and I would always make him out to be this super hero kind of guy. Now I find it hard to talk about him. Now I wonder how my super hero would let me down and hurt me instead of rescuing me.... It becomes shameful to speak about them when it comes to them doing any kind of good....
DeleteHugs to you xxx
Lili
Lynn Pain,
ReplyDeleteGEEZ your waxing poetic....so beautiful! Love this...and two of my favorite words together love and truth.
(Catching up in my readings of this post in between family summer trips etc. Want to take a moment to send out all my love to everyone here. You are always in my heart and prayers.
Peace Out
v
Why I stayed. It helps me to look at my husband who needs me and chose me to be in his life completely even with all my new rules. Why would I want to chase him to be in my life? If someone wants to be in your life they will make an obvious effort to do so. I don't reserve a space in my heart for someone that doesn't make an effort to stay and make things right. If someone isn't treating you right, no matter how much you love them, you have to love yourself more. Forgive yourself no matter which direction you go.
ReplyDeleteOMG. Had to deal with the OW via text over the last 2 days...it was an absolute necessity as we had something of hers from when we tried to "save" her from her abusive fiancé (you may recall that we later learned that it was all lies)...and realized that she is truly insane. I knew she was a diagnosed narcissist with rapid cycling bipolar disorder AND borderline personality disorder, but I guess I didn't realize that she was actually dangerous to ME. As soon as I made contact, she began harassing me, calling me names, trying to convince me that she and my husband were engaging in an emotional affair (she'd forgotten that I already knew everything and ignored that it had been 6 months since they'd so much as spoken). It was unbelievable. I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones because my husband absolutely despises the OW (with very good reason) so I have no worries that any of the venom she spewed was meaningful in the least, but it was incredibly stressful for both him and me. Further stress comes from the knowledge that she has actually physically hurt people who've crossed her in the past. She attempted to run over another betrayed wife with her car and stabbed her first and second husbands, claiming self defense. She's threatened to burn down businesses of men who've ultimately rejected her and she has a long history of making false claims to local police departments. Seriously, I couldn't make this stuff up if I were a true crime writer because it would be too ridiculous and unbelievable.
ReplyDeleteShe had claimed that my husband was the only good man she'd ever met and that he was the only one to truly break her heart and had promised him to keep her crazy antics away from us. But now, we're not so sure. She's driven by revenge and now we're wondering what she's going to do next.
OF COURSE, this whole thing has put a strain on my relationship with my husband. His guilt and shame over bringing this monster into our lives, coupled with the stress of not knowing if she's going to escalate, is taking its toll. He's an absolute zombie, completely shutting down. And I'm an anxious, angry mess. She's getting exactly what she wanted, I suppose...did I mention that she also has a genius IQ? I'm sure this is exactly what she wanted.
Is it emotionally and spiritually ok for me to hate her? The only problem I have with it, is that I know that she was sexually abused by her father throughout her entire childhood...and that's what's likely caused much of her pathology. She wants to destroy men and leaves a path of destruction everywhere she goes. So, I do have feelings of empathy for her as well. AND I don't know how much control she really has over her behavior.
Dana,
DeleteYou raised a question of whether it's emotionally or spiritually ok to hate the OW. This is an issue I struggle with pretty regularly. Just when I feel like I'm moving forward, I take three steps backward. I can only give you my opinion and add to that I struggle to follow through with what I think is right.
I think it's reasonable to assume that you will hate her for a time, especially if she continues to contact you. She sounds awful. But is it possible that hating her forever is unhealthy for you emotionally? I kept telling myself over and over that I needed to forgive the OW in my situation until my therapist said, "Why do you have to forgive her? Forgiveness is the 'gold standard'. Why don't you just shoot for not letting her matter to you?" That took a little pressure off of me. I've also started reading "How Can I Forgive You?" which addresses acceptance as a means of forgiveness, particularly in instances where the offender is not remorseful. It also talks about seeing the offender as a human being. This is where I struggle. I want to believe the OW is a monster, but, frankly, I don't know much about her except for what her behavior was during the affair. She sounds damaged but I don't know whether she has experienced trauma that caused it.
I think you hit on something important when you mentioned the background of the OW in your situation. She is clearly damaged and, as you said, you can feel some empathy for her background. If harboring hatred toward her is hurting you more than her, then it might be better for you to find a method that helps you to not continue to be affected by her. Maybe the first step is you seeing her for the broken person that she is and it sounds like you are already there. It's not excusing her behavior, it's just not letting the hatred toward her eat away at you.
Now, if only I could follow my own advice... ;-)
I'm sorry for what you are going through.
Hugs!
Perfect response is perfect, Dandelion.
DeleteI don't suppose I'm interested in forgiving her...she has no desire for it and I don't think I have it in me. She's exceedingly cruel and unpredictable, so i think the best I can hope for is to not allow her to have any hold over me. I can simply (in my mind) wish her no ill will and be done with her.
Hugs right back at you! It sounds to me like your head is on straight...you just have to your heart time to catch up!
I just found out less than four weeks ago that my husband had an affair sometime in the last year. He slept with a coworker sometime last fall (he says he honestly can't remember when and blocked it from his mind) and though he tried to stay away, she reeled him back in by being pitiful about not getting to say goodbye when he told her he didn't want to continue the affair and he loved him wife. They never had sex again, but have been sexting since February. I found out when I saw texts that referred to them sleeping together in addition to naked photos of her. She is a older (10 years plus) than us and is also married. My husband is sorry and says he will never cheat again, but the fact that he didn't tell me has made it worse. I honestly think he would have never told me if I hadn't found out and that eventually she would lose interest in him and the texting would stop. I made him contact her (we recently were relocated for his job and thankfully away from her), but I wanted the closure of her knowing I knew and that the affair was over. I expected that to make me feel better, but her reply of "ok. I am so sorry" just made me madder. Before her, I was the only woman he had ever been with. He has been tempted by women in the past who I can tell are a bit flirty and I have warned him about their intentions. I wish I had made a bigger deal over those instances in the past. Maybe it would have kept him from the physical affair. I know I am not far into this, but I am so exhausted from the pain and the anger. I am afraid I will drive him away if I don't "get over" it fast enough. We are in counseling, but I feel so hopeless. I want to trust him and continue being married, but I also don't want to be blindsided again in a year or so. I keep wondering "Is this my real life?" I feel myself numbing my emotions towards him and that scares me. Last night he was crying because I think he feels it too and I felt nothing watching him cry. I just wanted him to stop.
ReplyDeletePersonal maybe .... does anyone feel more triggered during that time of the month .... i am on edge. Obscessing some about the trip they took, placed they went ... time in general. Overall i dont know if im dealing ok or just trying to not let it get to me move on ... my H been wavering lately in regards to intimacy from red hot to seems not engaged or distracted. .. swears its not bcuz of ow ........ sighhhh. Also learned he might have to travel morw gor work not set but higher ups mentioned he came home asking me how i felt about it .... not good but i cant lock him away forever. .. what will be will be ... he needs to control him or talk to me if situations arise. Its not definate so not focusing on that for now. Its strange ow hasnt tried contacting in a couple weeks .... hummmmm. Up to something or finally gone ... i can only hope. I see efforts in my H i really do but when hes hot and cold really throws me for loop .... trying to remain focused his might compare to me functioning to crying i the shower just becuz? I feel a little sad too off subject maybe b4 dday we were talking about more babies H idea. I would want .... but not now i gave enough on my plate and deep down maybe even later id be scared .
ReplyDelete. That baby love stage and my H resisting temptation us what lead to being do deep in an affair in the first place. Turns out some was happening before we were married. .. though infrequently. .. which us even more of a mindfuck. Is what it is we can move on hope this doesnt define us or crumble to it. H says it was dumb and he doesnt have the want for ow anymore, fog lifted. ... but i wonder after being in long term affair. ... me and ow for so long can i really satisfy him? Or maybe its more just based on a new choice to be faithful and not fall to any temptations? Still learning. Navigating. Trying to survive and grow to stay married. Rambling im sure so much on my mind today ......
I've been stalking this blog since April when my husband of 21 years confessed to an affair. It happened in 2013 and he ended it in December of that year. This was with a "work acquaintance" that lives in a city where he had a meeting every other month. Those are the only times he was with her - a total of six times. He never fabricated a story to go see her or be with her. He was only with her during these meetings. He has had no contact with her since December 2013. Since he has confessed to this betrayal, our marriage has never been better. We are closer, more intimate, communicating, acknowledging the problems and poor behaviors that led to his choices. We are calling this our "second marriage." He is truly committed to me and our marriage and is filled with remorse and guilt for what he did. He told me he doesn't even think about her at all. He says he never loved her, always loved me, was never going to leave me - was all about sex for him. He said he did kind of "care" about her, but nothing more than that. It's totally over for him. Totally. So, you say, what's the problem? It's my stupid mind. I can't quit thinking about her and them. Images, thoughts, all the time -- it's driving me crazy. I can't even look at other women at the grocery store without thinking "oh maybe she looked like that" and then picturing her with him and then my mind totally runs away with me. Panic attacks have become "normal" for me. He loves me through them - knowing something has triggered my behavior. And, I know it hurts him that he knows he's the cause of it. How long will it take for me to quit hanging on to these thoughts? It's only been four months - which feels like an eternity, but maybe it's not in the world of healing... Everything is so good with us - we are healing, restoring our marriage, happy and in love again... except for my stupid brain... Please tell me this part will go away... Please tell me how to make it go away... (PS - I am so thankful for all the posts on this blog - the advice and words - It's helped so much. So sad to be in this club, but thankful for your words that have guided me through this journey.)
ReplyDeleteAnom August 12th,
DeleteI'm 20 months from D day and can tell you it will get better. Your mind is normal, you just received an unexpected knock out blow which rattled everything you thought in your mind to be true. Healing is a process for you personally and for both of you in your marriage. You can't rush it, speed it up or just get rid of it. When something bad happens it just takes time to understand it. Betrayals are so complicated, so many emotions, so many reason why, why not, excuses, truths, lies, knowledge, unknowns etc... It just takes time. I tried a thousands ways to rush the process but none of worked but time and a new evolving marriage is on your side. Don't be hard on yourself, you didn't have the affair. My mind movies are almost gone but my husband still has his personal hell - the guilt and shame doesn't heal itself away. For him, he has the scarlet letter forever, he will forever be a cheater. I don't care if he evers forgives himself. Not my problem.
I recently posted this on craigslist...the site my husband used to find his AP. I don't know why, it just made me feel better...
ReplyDeleteRemember me...
Before you continue down this path, stop and think of me.
ME: I'm the woman to whom you pledged your love and honor. I'm the woman who stood by your side for so mamy years, the mother of your children. I've been there through the good times and bad. I loved you when you didn't love yourself.
YOU: You are that amazing man that I have put on a pedestal so high that it will surely kill us both if you fall. If you continue down this path you will place a label on yourself that you will never be able to remove.
We all get lost, we all need reassurance. Don't do this. Instead, turn to me. Tell me you are hurting and lost. Let me help you.
If you do this, when I find out, and we always find out because the other woman won't let it remain a secret, our life as we know it will end. You will lose everything, trust, your marriage, the respect of your children, the man you always wanted to be. Don't do this. We can save each other. I'm right here and maybe I'm just as lost as you. Turn around and save us both.
Remember me.
Random, just beautiful. Thank you.
DeleteBeautiful, RT! If only those who are thinking of cheating could read something like this and get a brief glimpse of the disaster that affairs bring when they are discovered.
DeleteI'm taking advice found on this blog to deal with 'mind movies' . I have my elastic band and snap it when thoughts enter that lead to panic attacks begin. Then I get busy. House work art gardening anything to keep my mind occupied! Doesn't always work but is helping!
ReplyDeleteThank you Lili - it's always good to hear someone gets it. My hubby has been much more loving of late. He is coming back to himself. Interesting point ... he grew a beard months ago after DDay ... to the point of long and unruly ... as he said, "to hide my face." He shaved it off on way back from trip with his dad. Upon our reunion this week he was almost giddy with joy that he at least felt able to show his face. And with this step toward self forgivenes he is more able to show his love for me ... you cannot truly love another, without loving yourself first.
ReplyDeleteAnon Aug 11,
ReplyDeleteI had the same fear as you, that if I didn't get "over" this, my rapidly cycling mood swings and unending questions about "why" (i didn't give a crap about why with HER) that i was going to chase his ass right out the door.
I had read the timeline of 3 to 5 years to regain trust and something resembling a "normal" life. And i used to scream it--"THREE TO FIVE YEARS, CAN YOU DEAL WITH THIS FOR THREE TO FIVE YEARS??"
well, the mood swings did calm down but what helped a lot me was HIS patience.
Honestly, I cannot remember a time that he turned me down when I needed to talk, or denied me access to his devices or any of his accounts anywhere--phone, bank, shopping, the works.
You will be numb at times, you will be cold at times, and you will feel the warmth of the blurry light you can see at the end of the tunnel; and my belief is, if he works with you, he will not go through the worst with you, which is RIGHT NOW and then suddenly leave.
That's my experience.
You can't rush through this, if you do you will leave many stones that you need to upturned, in your life, his life and your relationship.
You are not crazy, btw, you are entirely normal, which doesn't make it easier. Just know you are not alone.
A note to all anonymous-es Use the drop down "comment as" box below, it's near the bottom of the list and choose "name/url".
Give yourself a name so we know you.
You do NOT need to enter a URL.
Steam, it's so true what you said about leaving stones unturned. I wanted to rush through this and I'm finding that, as you said... you just can't. It hurts and it sucks and you just want to be OVER it. I believe it was Elle that pointed out that the only way out is through it. Lots of learning on his part and on mine, but I believe we will come out stronger.
DeleteI am the anonymous you replied to above. We are out of town for my SIL's wedding. It is particularly hard as it is at the same church we got married in and our sixth anniversary is in two weeks. I recently Googled the OW and was surprised to find an arrest report online for a DUI. I now know she is 16 years older than me and my husband and have seen her photo (he verified it was her). I feel even more angry because of who she is. Like really?! This woman was worth destroying our marriage and causing me this pain. I hate her. From everything he told me, she aggressively pursued him, flirting with him at work and hitting on him at a work dinner. When she invited everyone back to her house, he was the only one to show up. She said, "Hold on, I need to go to the restroom" and came back naked. I am so angry because I wasn't there, but I constantly picture this in my head now. I can't get HER out of my head. I can't help but picture my husband who had previously never had sex with anyone but me, rolling on a condom to have sex with this disgusting older woman. How do I ever trust him again, not just to cheat, but how do I trust that he is the man I always thought he was. We have told no one. Except the counselor. I don't want people judging us or feeling sorry for me or gossiping. And my family history is such that I know they would crucify him and that would just make this harder for me.
DeleteA shimmer of hope ... as we lay in bed last night falling asleep H reaches over strokes my hair for a moment and says. Im sorry ... so sorry ... does this lessen my hurt no but i think it puts mini bandaids on my wounded heart and im appreciative to hear that wo asking ... small steps right.
ReplyDeleteSmall steps, yep. Amazing what a bit of empathy and compassion can do. Those gestures that let us know how sorry they are and how they wish they could undo our pain go a long way.
DeleteI was doing so well at almost 5 months. Really well in fact. I was really working through the pain all the feelings about the affairs and our marriage pre dday. I always thought the story of when the affair started did not make sense but my husband kept to the story. Well ends up he moved it up by 4 years. I just feel terrible now. I feel like it is dday all over again. And on this one fact i had asked him over and over the past five months since it really did not make sense to me. I feel like i cannot breathe and like i am questioning myself again. He feels like it is a "speedbump". I get it i am not saying this erases some of the progress but i am just stunned. He keeps saying judge me from dday forward and i say yes but you lied to me all over again and to protect yourself not to help us.
ReplyDeleteHe swears on the lives of our children that there has been no contact except one text from the woman and he showed me and his reply to stop texting him. He swears that he only wants to be with me and these have been the happiest times of his life besides when he can feel me in pain. He is doing everything right putting me and our marriage first. But i am struggling with this lie. It makes me wonder if there are more lies and it just makes it twice as hard. I am so saddened and lonely. I honestly thought we were moving to a really good place and i feel like that has been taken away from me. I am a hopeful and optimistic person by nature. That is probably how i ended up in a relationship with someone having two affairs. I see the best in people. And now i hate being someone who overthinks, questions and second guesses everything. And it is so heartbreaking since i thought we had made some major progress individually and together. And now i feel like he is dismissing this lie and saying it is not something we should let us got caught up in.
Thanks for listening!
Hopeful 30, of course you feel like DDay all over again ... my husband did the same ... the trickle truth. And yes, it was devastating. The only thing which actually made it better was knowing it is a very real "phenomenon." And I wasn't alone. There were times it wasn't truth at all, but blatant lies. I couldn't grasp it ... this man I loved and trusted was looking me directly in the eyes and lying. Who can do that? Someone who is so incredibly frightened ... frightened and ashamed. May you find moments of peace and strength. May your husband do the same so that he can be vulnerable and as Peggy says, "responsibly honest."
ReplyDeleteSooo ... date night last night w group of people .... sit down good time waitress comes up she has same name as ow which isnt all that common .... r u fucking kidding me i tell my H under my breath .... my face became flush felt like i coukdnt swallow and thought best ti change my drink order to water ... dont need to give devil fire water ... i composed myself after a bit didnt ruin my night but was in ny mind some. ... just thought id share. Sighhhhh this will happen. I seriously wanted another waitress. H laughed not at me at situation more so like really? Said its just a name and it didnt bother him in slightest? True maybe isk but he can tell i was bothered and did try to help me.
ReplyDeleteI kind of had to laugh at this...my name Rachelle, the other woman, Michelle...sometimes you just have to laugh and shake it off ;)
DeleteHorrendous day ... it's our anniversary and all I can do is cry. He too is having a hard time ... and he is unable to comfort me. He says I require a lot of attention and maintenance... or something like that. I said one moment you love me and act as such ... the next you don't even like me ... he admitted that was true. I've been riding this emotional roller coaster since he said we should split about three months before DDay until now ... 10 months! The back and forth, "I love you ... and then lacking patience ... leaving for six weeks ... loving again ... and I'm talking this can be within days of each other ... the loving husband I knew and loved and the inpatient husband who I knew sometimes, but now, more often. Is he angry with himself? and taking it out on me? I haven't changed ... actually I have, but for the better. I'm helping a Lot in the yard; I'm expressing my gratitude so much more (and he wants me to stop thanking him for everything) ... we do see a new therapist this coming week. Let's hope it helps. Hugs all.
ReplyDeleteThe day got much better - not because of what we did - and we enjoyed a movie, pedicures and dinner, but because we talked about us ... we are still both not sure ... but here and somehow know that's where we belong right now.
DeleteHang in there. My H had told me what i thought was all of it ... i felt relived of my obsessing over details assumptions and could sleep again. Then WHAM that wasnt it .... sure he told me most of everthing omitting he recently had been in contact again and had sex 1 time after dday on a day i now know something seemed off and my gut was telling me so but i didnt listen. Finding out there is more was much like dday i expressed i was feeling more in touch and shuffling vs assuming details to be blind sided again ... someone said id rather be slapped with the truth then kissed with a lie. So true .... that night as i cried u lied again!!!!! Hurt so bad we had an all night talk cries and more details emerged ... some to much detail and now that i know it all or 90% at best it released him of the ow hold to tell me whatever it was shameful for him and burned like hell for me now we talk about alot more and hopefully nowhere to go now but up like elle says .... communication is key and hope it will lead us to healing i read nit just friends and enjoyed it. Take care.
ReplyDeleteYes, you must forgive yourself. After 20 months out of hell, here is what my healing looks like so far and I hope this encourages those still stuck in betrayal hell.
ReplyDelete1. I have grown personally and know myself so must better. I'm not fooling myself anymore. Or as Elle says relearned.
2. My self esteem has improved, yes, I do slip back into old habits when stressed out but who doesn't.
3. My husband has to live with himself, I don't take that responsibility anymore. That is purely on him.
4. I didn't lose my self respect, morals, my family's respect or trust. He lost it all.
5. I found my voice and I'm not afraid to use it.
So I am still struggling with the lack of details from the affair. They were sporadic with long periods of no communication so he says he cannot remember details. And he also says he hated it so something he tried to erase. Only reason he kept at it was he thought he had done permanent damage. But ended one afrair and the other has only been sporadic texts and emails for 6 years. But I struggle not knowing when things began and ended and how they communicated. Really what I see as basic questions. I do not want to know details at all. He says he wants to flush it and it is such a dark part of his past. I feel I need to understand what went on and wonder does he get it all even? And I also feel I need to process what happened in our marriage good and bad for so many years. Even though since there were only 7 times he was with two women over 10 years. I am so confused.
ReplyDeleteEverything is going really well with us now. He is supportive and saying the right things. It is hard to know will details help me work through this or make if worse for me? Will it push him too far? I feel like in a way it is him having ultimate control of what happens which is a pattern in our marriage. Not in a terrible way but me giving in to him. Just wondering if this is the time where I put my foot down and demand what I think I need. The problem is I hope it will help me and us.
Would love any thought from those who have been through this. Thanks!
Hopeful,
DeleteFrom the night i found out the full truth of my husband's affair, I pressed for details. And I have asked questions that in hindsight, I wish I never had. Some of the details were too much for me. Most of those came early on though and after doing that a few times, I decided that I would write my questions down and wait 24 hours. If I still felt compelled to know the answer, I asked it then. That really helped save me from asking things that would hurt more then help. And Melissa is absolutely right when she says that your perspective changes as you heal. Initially, I felt like I needed and absolute number of exactly how many times my husband had sex with the OW. My husband and I figured out an approximate and I'm okay with that. Because ultimately, the bottom line is that he carried on a sexual affair with her off and on for over a year. The betrayal happened before they ever even had sex. He doesn't remember a lot of specific dates or conversations and the reality is that his memory has always been crap.
That kind of leads into your other point about their recollection of the affair. It is terribly shameful for a lot of unfaithful people when they look back and realize what they've done. It's easier for some to just try to block it out. Another possibility, and one that I'm processing now, is that often the affair partner, their "relationship", the conversations, etc.., just weren't that important to them. The OW in my situation was a means to an end. She fed his ego and gave him sex, both things that were lacking in our marriage. In one meeting with our therapist, I was expressing how frustrated I was with his lack of memory for specific conversations with and details about the OW. The therapist kind of put the question back to my husband and his answer was that it really didn't matter that much. I've just recently realized that he doesn't even remember when her birthday is. As petty as it is, that makes me feel a little better.
Baded on my personal experience, I would just encourage you to give thought to your questions before you ask them. Definitely pursue them if you need the information to heal, but if it's something you are on the fence about, give yourself some time. You can always go back and ask it later if the need to know stays with you.
Hugs!
Hopeful, I too wanted details. It is actually very common for a woman who finds out of her husband's affair. My husband also had a very difficult time with the timeline of the affair as well as when it went from emotional to sexual. I still don't know that part, for sure. I did see that my husband put forth effort to try to find it out for me. He talked to friends about events and get-togethers that would help him with the timeline. He also reviewed photographs and his computer. He really was trying to piece it together for me, and even for him because he truly cannot believe that much time had passed. He has always been very weak with details regarding time and has always looked to me for that kind of information. Your need for details changes over time. And your need for what type of details. And that's a good thing. As much as I want to know when my husband's affair went from emotional to physical, in the end, it doesn't really matter. He had an affair on me. Period. My friend whose husband had an affair between 2008 and 2010, now, she has a hard time remembering the details that she did find out. And I've heard that from many others who are further along in their reconciliation. There are actually some great articles on the Internet about why men a) don't want to share the details and b) cannot recall the details. Reading some of those articles helped me as well.
ReplyDeleteTrust your instinct and your need to know. If it's burning and you really need to know, do all that you can to find out… But, if you can rest with it, just let it be. and if there is truly no way to know without causing both of you great anxiety, I would just let it be as well.
Hugs and kisses