Feeling Stuck Part Four (Full! Please post in Part Five)

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204 comments:

  1. I am unsure how to proceed with my husband. We have been married for 35 years and it is two years since DDay 1, when I discovered his affair with an ex girlfriend, by a text sent to me by mistake instead of her. DDay 2 was the result of 'trickle truth' and took place a year later. This time he confessed to an earlier affair with the same ex ( the one he left me for) and continued sporadic non physical contact for the time in between which lasted for 18 years. He only confessed to this because I was sure he hadn't told the truth about some things, such as whether she had been to our house while I was at work, where they met up etc. and I was pushing him for more truth. If I hadn't insisted on knowing whether he lied about these things he would not have told me about the earlier affair. He says he wanted to spare me but I know it was really to spare him. However I have just about managed to cope with the DDay 2 revelations. She has tried different ways of contacting him over the 2 years since his 'no contact' speech and apart from a few early texts he has kept me informed each time. Generally things are good and we have happy times and are hopefully progressing to a better relationship. However I do feel there are things I still do not know. The question is, do I need to? If they are relatively 'minor' such as where they went together the answer is no. However due to the year I spent thinking his affair with the OW was recent and not long standing I continue to worry that there are other 'big' things I am unaware of. Has he lied, or more likely not told me of other important things? My fear is that if I 'push' something will come out that would end our marriage after all. Not knowing whether I have had the truth is the mental hell that takes over in the middle of the night but now things are better than they have been for a long time, am I being paranoid or over suspicious? He knows I do not trust him and never will completely again but can I concentrate on our future?

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    1. From my perch seven years on...I would say you don't need to know. He cheated on you. And it's excruciating. The details of that, at this point, are noise. Painful noise.
      It's normal, I think, to start shopping for more pain when you begin to approach some sort of normalcy. It's like you're afraid to let your guard down for fear of being blind-sided again. Like holding his feet to the fire can somehow guarantee that he behave.
      It's an illusion.
      Focus on the right now. It's the only path to happiness. Pay attention to what you have right now, even if the price to get there was high.

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  2. I have been on a Xmas roller coaster. I yelled at my husband last night you say our relationship was bad well the car keys must have turned themselves when you went to pick her up. You turned into everything you said you would never be. I'm a year out and the OW drove past our house which started the whole yelling at him. i said why wouldn't she be in a fantasy she could get you back? You treated her the best she had been treated in years. I don't imagine she will be getting a $1500 necklace this year from her latest married man who chooses to walk through the door when it is opened. She has been separated from her husband but still married for the last 5 years. My husband treated her the way I wanted to be treated for so many years. He realizes it what he was like and told me at the end of my yelling, he was going to spend the rest of his life making it up to me. If you want a relationship with me it's simple don't lie and I hope he isn't.



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    1. He told me there were no presents or any special treatment for her and that it was 'just sex' for her as well as him. For their contact to continue so long it was clearly more than that. He admits that the first affair with her was simply him 'taking what was on offer' beginning with a chance meeting locally. The second was her getting 'frisky' during their on line chats with photos etc and as we weren't getting on well he thought why not. He really thought I would never find out. It is the lying that is the block to progression. The number of lies over the years and, in particular in the year between me finding out the second and him admitting to the first affair is hard to forget. He looked me in eyes as swore to me he had told me everything and that there was nothing else to know. That was not true then, so my brain says 'why should it be true now'? Finding out another big lie would be the end for me, in our mid sixties do I really want to begin again? We are rebuilding and I want to look forward not back but I do feel I will have to live with doubt forever and I hope I am strong enough. This site is invaluable in helping me realise I am not alone in my insecurities.

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    2. I'm 60 years old too and asked myself the same questions. But my husband had one affair that I know of. I'm a year out and the affair lasted 2.5 years. I looked at it from every angle if I left there goes half of our retirement savings. I have lived by myself in a long time. My husband lied about the timelines and other details for almost ten months. At 60 what would life be like? I would have money to travel but no one to go with. I could not even imagine what my life would look like, coming home to a dark empty house? It took me awhile but I began to imagine what my life would be like and it didn't look bad. I gave myself enough time to calm down emotionally and waited until I could see both paths clearly before I decided to stay. Both paths looked good in my mind. I decided to stay with my husband but it took a year to come to that decision. I can live with one lie but honestly I could not live with two affairs. I would be out the door because I know in my heart I could never believe him ever. I can take one mistake everyone deserves a second chance but not a third. I would rather find some peace in my mind than live with some who gave me no peace. He is capable of lying twice he risked you twice and doesn't value you. I know I sound harsh but I would rather begin again, I don't know how anyone could go through this experience twice. Whoever can do that has my highest respect for their strength. Thought about a trial separation?

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    3. C'mon ladies...60 is the new 40, or something like that. I don't want to discourage you from rebuilding your marriage if that is what you truly want...but make sure it's what you want. Don't stay with someone because you think you're too old to start over. At some point, you're likely going to be changing this guy's diapers, or wiping the drool from his mouth. So there's GOT to be some love there and a desire to spend the rest of your life.
      Figure out what he needs to be doing to convince you that he's worth that second chance. Or figure out if you even WANT to give it to him. It's your choice. There's a lot of living left to do.

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  3. I am almost 1.5 years after d day 1. Overall much better.

    I have strange triggers now. No more triggering by certain songs, certain movies, THEIR names, certain restaurants or places they went, even dates having to do with THEM.

    The weird thing is the triggers are things/dates that are important to ME/US, & seem to have nothing to do with them. My birthday was Saturday & I felt angry, bitter, & resentful all weekend.

    Yesterday was the anniversary of our first date 21 years ago & although my husband was great, I was in a pissy mood from bedtime til this morning. I had insomnia AGAIN (which serves as my affair trigger gauge).

    All I kept thinking about is how I have been sleeping in bed with my daughter til she falls asleep for the last 6 years. My husband relieved me last nite for me to clean up his dinner & get ready for bed. I can't fault him but all I wanted was to have dinner w him, u know, like a normal couple. & all I keep thinking whenever I fall asleep in her room so we don't have sex is how when I found out about the first affair one of his excuses was we werent having sex; I was always too tired (at that time he NEVER came to relieve me; putting her to sleep was always my problem because he was working & conveniently almost never even home for bedtime).

    So in my head I always fast forward to 5 years from now & think so when I find out about his next affair that he is having now or will have at some point in the future, will he blame me by saying it was my fault because I would fall asleep in her bed?

    Yes I know that was just an excuse. He knows it too. He admits he said it to blame me. D day # 2 was for an affair which occurred when we were having sex, we had just gotten married, we didn't have kids yet. But when I am triggered emotions take over logic.

    When I am triggered like this I feel so full of poison. This is not who I am.

    Sam

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    1. I hear ya, Sam. I feel full of poison too when I'm like that.
      Are you waiting for him to give you permission to take care of yourself? You sometimes sound so much like me -- the martyr who took care of everything and got so much of my own self-esteem from being the perfect wife/mother/party thrower/etc. But I was choking on my resentment the whole time.
      He didn't give you what you needed when you needed it but (and I may well be wrong) I bet you never asked him. I would venture that a lot of your anger is as much toward yourself for betraying yourself as it is for him. And that's who you need to forgive: yourself.

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    2. U are so right. Some of things I have resented over the years I have recently told him about, & his answer is pretty much why didn't I say anything? Once I tell him, he tries to make up for it in the present: we go out more, he brings me home desert when he goes to a work dinner, he babysits the kids more so that I can do things for me. Either he's a phenomenal actor or he really gets it.
      Yes I never asked before. Either I thought I didn't have that right, or I prided myself on being a martyr, or I thought he should just be able to read my mind, or some combination thereof.

      Now I ask.

      Sam

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    3. Hallelujah Sam! I ask too. :)

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  4. In my case he had multiple emotional & physical affairs over the first 10 years of our marriage but has been clean since d day over a year ago. Maybe if I had found out about the first physical affair right away the subsequent physical & emotional ones could have been prevented. But without hard evidence he would always deny & say although these other women were interested he never let it go further. Now he has greatly decreased amount of time going out without me, flirts much less if at all, has stopped sexting, etc, because he knows that I know he is only human & can get carried away.

    I only hope he won't do it again now that I know.

    Sam

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  5. It has been 5 years since my D-Day.
    The pain is still so fresh and strong I don't know what to do. I used to believe time heals all wounds but I am not so sure after 5 years.
    We have kids together so we communicate and meet once a week to drop off and pick up. Every time I see him, i get emotional how he lied and betrayed me, how he blamed me, how the family broke up, good times we had, etc....
    Last 5 years, I tried everything. First 2 years, we did counseling together. He blamed me for his affairs that was end of our marriage for me. He had 2 long term relationship during our marriage lasted over 2 years. After he moved out, I went back to school, got a job while seeing a therapist. However, I could not function...I never got my confidence back and I a always afraid.
    He has been with someone for 3 years now. He has moved on and I don't want him back. Why do I still feel this way? I am frustrated myself ... It has bee too long.
    Help.

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    1. Anonymous,
      I'm so sorry that you're still in such pain. I'm no expert but I would guess that you're stuck in some sort of PTSD. The pain seems to feel so immediate to you. Find yourself another therapist and see if you can get to the bottom of this. You might also try EMDR, which seems like hocus-pocus but I can personally vouch for the that it works. It tends to dislodge trauma that's stored deep down.
      You're right. It's time to shed this pain and move on with your life. And just to remind you: None of this was your fault. You did NOT cause his affairs no matter what he said to you.

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  6. I'm so sorry you are hurting. You weren't able to work through anything all by yourself. You sound so lonely and all by yourself. Is there anything you do just for you? Sounds like he didn't want to be married int he first place or ever. I went through self esteem therapy and that probably helped me the most to get my confidence back. It wasn't easy to face what was wrong with me. Just my opinion but you need to gain your self back as a strong woman. You really have accomplished so much on your own. Just sounds like you haven't really got to the real issues. I'm so sorry and I hurt for you.

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  7. July 3rd, 2014. I had had numerous "divine interventions" post breast cancer diagnosis on March 18th, 2013. Underwent, surgery, chemo and radiation. Through this torture, I had numerous dreams and recollections of events 15-20 years prior. We were to celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary on 7/30/2014. I spent my "treatment" year as I call it, sniffing/snooping into old phone records, recalling a hotel invoice w/a porn flick purchase, gently poking and prodding my husband whose famous statement for years to clear any doubt was, "As God as my witness...." I was later warned by the polygrapher that is a dead give away for lies to follow. My husband grew nervous, impatient and I saw this in his behavior. I believe my slow, persistence eventually drove him to confess to one affair w/multiple, failed attempts at others 15 years ago. Though my belief is that his claim to innocence for the last 15 years is hindered by the fact that he failed two subsequent polygraphs. He claims to be desperately in love with me. We have two beautiful children, but the pain of betrayal and loss of trust trumped the breast cancer diagnosis. Strange blessing in disguise. Be careful of what you search for, it may indeed become a reality. Now here in December of 2014, I am shattered. Both from a breast cancer diagnosis and the infidel that I lay next to nightly. My decision to stay or go will be a process for which I will take a long, calculated journey - remember, revenge is a dish best served cold.

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    1. Breast cancer survivor here too. I can honestly say that the trauma of infidelity and desertion trumps breast cancer. At least I know what I can handle.

      Jen from Ohio

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    2. Anonymous,
      I hope you're taking good care of yourself. No matter what you choose, I hope you've got somewhere safe to explore everything you're going through and find support and guidance. You deserve so much more when your prime focus should be on your health.

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  8. My husband and I are reconciling after his 20 month emotional affair that ended on August 18, 2012 when I discovered text messages between him and his "friend" saying, "I love you Babe". Here is the problem he is trying to do the right things but every time we discuss the affair he gets very (over the top) angry and defensive. And I feel many times he either avoids answering my questions, is evasive in his answers, or changes the subject. The basic tell tale signs of a liar. Because of this I am feeling very empathetic and really don't feel that I care or love him the way I used to. I don't even bother checking the phone records I just told him if he wants to have a secret "friend" in the future just leave and don't turn around. I see how many woman post long after the affairs are over and many state their relationship is better but to me they are still seem hurt. My relationship is working,I guess, but the crap that went on behind my back is killing my love and since he is not willing to "really" talk openly without the drama I am loosing my love. Is there a solution? My husband really believes that if he plays this role long enough I will give up and "it will go away."Does anyone else have this issue I have looked all over the internet and feel alone. Please help.

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    1. Many many of us deal with exactly what you're dealing with. They often tell us they don't want to hurt us further with the details or encourage us to not "live in the past" and all sorts of other bullshit. They don't want to talk about it because it makes them feel bad. It forces them to face up to their deceit and their cruelty and their self-centredness. Who wants to feel that? Far easier to use anger to get us to back down.
      Anger is a counter-move and it often works. Don't let him get away with it. Practice saying, calmly and as often as necessary, I can't move forward until you can talk about this with me without anger, without defensiveness. Our marriage can't heal unless we can face this openly and with compassion for each other.
      You can also give him this to read: http://betrayedwivesclub.blogspot.ca/2014/04/my-letter-to-husbands-just-talk-about.html

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  9. I am not married nor am I with a man. My relationship has lasted for 3 years. I am 21 and my partner is 27. I am confused as hell. In the beginning of our relationship I was lied to for a year about the sexual relations she had with her ex partner. She confessed sex for her overlapped and I was bed sharing. This was a year after. I tried to leave but loved her so decided to work on it. She was emotionally unavailable and I believed because I gave her a second chance I should deal with it. During that time She lied about keeping in contact with her and up to this day I dont know when they stopped communication. Even though that betrayal has passed it still lingers. Reading through your post I have come to learn what an emotional affair is. And she has had two while I was dealing from that emotional pain , plus an overbearing friend that overlaps in this too. Myself, I am guilty of one. But the betrayal I feel is that our relationship turned vile and violent and she has left bruises and scars on my body from her insecurities (linking to the emotional affair I had plus her personal issues) and a lack of knowledge with managing her emotions.

    She has made active choices and has shown improvement. I have opened up about how I feel betrayed for hurting me in an attempt to feel my way through. She is more emotionally available then before but said to me I gave her a chance so I have to move past this. This set alarm bells off in my head.

    I want to build a strong partnership that can stand the test of time. But too much time alone makes me angry about the past fighting. Then I feel bad for being 'stuck in the past'

    I find it hard to leave so I try and rationlize it with a strong bond. A strong bond that a strong partnership can be built on because we have gone through a lot.

    How can I deal with this hurdle. Should I force myself to leave it alone all together?

    O,

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    1. O,
      I'm very sorry for all that you've been through. It sounds as if your partner is abusive, both physically and emotionally. Unless she commits to owning up to those demons and seeking help for herself, I suspect you're simply due for more pain. You don't deserve this. Nobody does.
      You're very young and I know that you believe this woman is worthy of your love. But I urge you to love yourself enough to insist upon a relationship of total honesty and respect.
      Are you in counselling? It might help you understand why you find it hard to leave a relationship that's causing you so much pain. Sometimes those "strong bonds" are chains and we're better off trying to throw them off.

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  10. OMG can not believe it, every word you wrote could have been written by me!!!!!

    I am 20 months on and if I had a £1 for every time my husband has become angry or said 'I've mad the biggest mistake of my life-I can't remember-No-I don't know-It just happened, it shouldn't have-I wasn't thinking straight etc etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    He never says 'yes' to a question even if I know the answer is yes. He goes to the toilet or into the kitchen. Or when I say can you just answer the question and that's that he says why do you have to keep bringing it up, I've forgotten her it was a mistake.
    Example - One of their quick meetings was for coffee in MacDonalds. he said today that they went inside for a coffee but before he said they sat outside in her car.
    Why don't they understand that the details ARE important, for us to know the details makes the lies disappear and our husbands back again. No secrets with his girlfriend anymore...she doesn't own that moment, its been taken away. He gets really angry when I call her his 'girlfriend' says she wasn't til I said did you chat her up. take her number. take her for dinner. kiss her. etc...then yes she was your girlfriend

    They met in a bar in Spain while he was a on boys golf weekend, so they didn't get to know each other over the course of time. That makes me really jealous (I'm a very jealous person) as they had an instant connection, fancied each other. both married and not in a good place. Selfish selfish people.

    I feel very calm and numb now. I don't get that mega angry madness moments. Its like a storm at sea with 20 foot high waves, gusts of wind and then I go to sleep and wake to a silent calm, no wind, the sea smooth. Its a unnerving feeling after months of uncontrollable rage and anger.
    But I will not be silenced or told to shut up. The story needs to be told. In his words and not drip drip over 20 months. That's if hes capable, but I doubt it so its stale mate.

    But your right, it makes you not love them, the barrier is still up. I asked him to back off a little, as he is all over me all the time. Tying hard to soften me and move us forward. We both love each other deeply all I need is an explanation and not an excuse. He chose to play that game now I should choose on how the game is finished.

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    1. I once read it described as, during the affair, the door was open to the OW but closed to the wife. After the affair, in order to heal, the door needs to be open to the wife so she can "see" the affair. In other words, you need the story, as much as your husband is able to disclose. That said, try not to get hung up on the details. You might find it difficult to completely recount an experience, especially when it's emotionally charged. But you do need the basics. How long did it last, where was it conducted, what was involved (sex, sexting, etc.)? Once you know that stuff you can often begin to let it go.

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  11. Hi,

    I am very thankful to find this blog. My husband had a emotional affair about a year and a half ago. I found out through OW's strange Facebook posts (we were all friends, we all went to church together). My husband confessed when I confronted him, but also told me he wasn't sure he wanted to stay with me. At the time, we were married 13 years -- we have two children.
    Our life is not easy - we both work full time and one of our children has special needs. He resented our busy lives - she was fun and her life is easy, I can see how he would be attracted to it, but I was floored. I did everything he always wanted me to do - which was the most of the work, and leaving him alone to play his video games and watch sports. She was at our house a lot and our kids loved her.
    I had to convince him to stop contact with her. He actually lied and kept in email contact with her for about a month afterward. Even though he rarely wanted to spend time with me, I found texts he wrote her begging her to hang out with him and him telling her how much he missed her. He definitely had withdrawal. We left the church, which I also had to convince him to do. Our kids were very sad about this, so we let them finish the year in kids' club, which meant I had to face her once a week.
    We started therapy, and a few months later he started to take possession of his faults and said he knew he wanted to stay with me. He says he is very sorry.
    As a Christian, I struggled with forgiving her. Every time I would try, I would find a letter she wrote him or something else. I feel like I have failed at this.
    Now it is over a year later. We have quit therapy because my husband did not do what the therapist told him. He said he hated going because he always got yelled at. I hated going because I knew what the therapist would say and nothing would change. Even though he says how much he loves me and wants to be with me, he still acts like me and the kids are just in the way of his video game, sports, and nap times. I feel like I have a 3rd child. I can't trust him to take care of household things (he tells me he will, and then they don't get done, sometimes with serious repercussions) I found out he was in trouble at work (he lied to me about this for a couple weeks) for something stupid that he shouldn't have done, and when I try to get him to do things with us, he is sulky, like a child.
    I don't know what to do. How do I ever work through all these issues, knowing that he wanted to be with someone more than he wanted to be with me, even if it was a short period of time? How do I work though it knowing he won't really change these childish behaviors?
    Thanks for listening.

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    1. Sweetheart, you can't do anything. This completely on him. He wants everything to stay the same without him committing to be an equal partner. That's a recipe for resentment. He needs to either grow up and accept responsibility or lose his family and gain the ability to act like a teenager every second weekend.
      You simply can't force him to grow up. What you can do is set very clear boundaries about what you will and will not tolerate. Personally, I would make therapy non-negotiable. He goes, he commits to change, and then he follows you. If he doesn't or won't, then perhaps it's time to draw up a separation agreement.
      Painful, I know. But likely less painful than a lifetime with someone who resents you for expecting him to be a husband.

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    2. As I was wrestling with similar issues, a friend said don't you think God's forgiveness (for me) is bigger than the Bible? I was trying to decide to stay or go and I realized that Gods love and peace and happiness is bigger than a book. After I realized how he wants me to be happy, I said good bye and never looked back. He has given me more blessing than I could imagine. His love, forgiveness is bigger than book ever could be. So don't let the book hold you back, thinking small. He has so much love to give us.

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  12. I am another Breast Cancer survivor here. Men and boobs and cancer. Who knew they were so weak? My D-Day was just over a year ago. He had been at it for over a year. It started when I was 6 months pregnant with our second child, and 8 months out from finishing treatment for cancer. Yeah... Real winner my ex is. I surprised him by being willing to fight for our marriage. We've been together for 15 years since we were 17. We have a beautiful life and two beautiful children. He, however, never fought for me. He sat in counseling for a year, lying. He never ended the affair. Not really. We separated in July after I realized they were still talking ("as friends" supposedly because they work together)... Then, two weeks before Christmas, one week after Thanksgiving and my birthday- he tells me he wants out. I've now learned he's been on dating sites at least as long as we've been separated and already slept with another person in addition to the OW. I am so broken hearted. This was the man I chose to spend my life with. Very consciously, and with great personal conviction. He is at least trying to be a stand up guy in divorce, but he has completely torn my life apart. I am attempting to date in hopes of showing myself there is more out there. Despite many very attractive, lovely, kind men, it makes me miss my husband more. I trust it will get better, but I just keep coming back to this feeling of betrayal and fraud. He made me all these promises for all these years, and then it feels like as soon as he got what he wanted (two kids, the house and the sports car) he was out. Where can I go now as a single mom of two very young kids, who stays at home (which he supports for now)... I look like such a pathetic excuse for a version of myself. He stole my youth. I'm going back to counseling with a new counselor to try and heal this, but it is terrifying to have to start over when I was willing to forgive him. He betrayed me, lied to me, and then abandoned me. Talk about a hit to your self worth!

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    1. His failings have nothing to do with your self-worth. This was never about you. NEVER. It's about his inability to be a grown-up with a wife who's just gone through hell and then given birth to his second child. You're a freaking wonder woman! He's not worthy to lick your boots.
      Of course you feel betrayed and cheated and devastated. That is completely normal. The person you trusted was unworthy of that trust.
      Now it's time to take care of yourself. You haven't wasted your youth -- you produced two beautiful children. And you've grown emotionally. When we know better, we do better.
      I would urge you to stop dating for the time being. Wait until you're in a better head space. Wait until your ex is well and truly in your past and you're clear-eyed about who he really is. Wait until you're able to see people for who they really are and assess them accordingly, instead of dismissing everyone because they're not your husband. Great guys are out there. But you're not going to find them when your heart is still broken.
      Get yourself an awesome therapist and make your own healing an absolute priority.

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  13. I'm unsure of what to do. My boyfriend whom I believed I would be getting engaged to in the near future cheated on my six months ago. I found (by him) within hours of the incident, and we've been working on it ever since. He's made every conceivable attempt to repent, we see a therapist, and he truly regrets his actions. I believe that he will never do this again (even though I still feel the desire to snoop through everything) and he has made big sacrifices to show me actions towards our future. However, I'm having trouble (besides the normal stuff) imagining my future with a BOYFRIEND, not a husband, who done this. Having been married before, and not quite understanding what the commitment entailed at the time, I now believe I understand the love and togetherness and work a marriage requires. If he was my husband, while this would NOT have made the indiscretion easier to handle, I feel like there wouldn't be a decision to about 'is he worth it' in my situation. We would have already made that commitment. Can I work through this with a boyfriend and marry the man who cheated on me? I feel like I need to have this question answered. Six months ago I was ready and he was to (though we were not yet engaged). But now, I'm not sure. I'm young (mid 20s) and don't think it's right that I would probably still be healing as we would say our vows in the years of our future, as it seems like the healing never truly ends. But I know what we had and what we can have and how can I walk away from that? I feel like I'm in a different position, since I have no legally binding document, property, or children with this man - I could want away much 'free-er' than most. Am I too young to 'settle' for the perfect man of my dreams who (six months ago) made the love of my previous marriage pale in comparison, but oh-by-the-way cheated? How can I move forward with the healing process without knowing if I could even marry him ever?

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    1. The sad truth is that more than half of marriages will experience infidelity. The odds are not in our favor. I don't know that I'd run in either direction -- away from him or to the alter. I'd buy myself some time. See if his newfound repentance is long-lasting. See how you feel with therapy. You're young. You might have learned early on just how easy it is to make the wrong choices that can devastate a relationship. Or you might discover that there are other issues as well that don't bode well for a future. Either way, given that he's been willing to face his actions and try and move forward, I'd wait and see.

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  14. Run away from him, marriage is hard enough with our hanging on to this type of baggage. Why settle?

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  15. About 4 months ago I found out that my husband of almost 28 years betrayed me. Suspicious of comments I saw on his Facebook profile by an ex-girlfriend, I went into the messages on his phone to see what he had been up to. I also went onto his google account and checked out his history... I discovered that on the 13th of Feb this year he was looking up florists in an area near his work. When questioning him on this he first lied and said his work had asked him to look it up to send flowers to a customer. He then came clean and said that he wanted to send flowers to one of his customers for valentines day, but then didn't. He says the flowers were too expensive. So I think if they were cheaper he would have sent them. He then also confessed to meeting up with an ex-girlfriend behind my back. He says that they met up for coffee about 5 times. He says it was just coffee and it was just catching up on old times. He swears there was nothing sexual, says he is sorry and claims that he did it because he has felt neglected ever since we adopted a child about 5 years ago. I was completely devastated! I love him with all my heart and decided to forgive him, but I am struggling to get past this betrayal. My self-esteem has taken a serious knock and I find myself questioning internally everything he has ever said and done! It's been almost 4 months now and not a day goes by that I don't feel the pain of this betrayal. I just want the heartache to go away now and move forward from this, but I don't know how to do it!

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    1. I was in a similar situation about 18 months ago with my husband of 19 years. Marriage counseling is the only way I kept my sanity and personal counseling is what got me through the really tough stuff. Behavior like this comes from something that is not quite right in the marriage or him personally. You need to find our what that is and work on it together. I didn't hide my feelings of betrayal and insecurity from my husband. We discussed it and talked through it. The key is talking through it with tears and honesty not yelling and screaming. It has been 18 months and we are better now than we ever have been, but I won't say that my fears are completely gone. I still struggle from time to time, but it is less every day. My husband reassures me often. Your husband will need to understand that you need love and support and a lot of talking to work through this if you are to save your marriage. I don't regret working through this with my husband only that I feel our marriage is somehow tainted because of it. I am working on putting that part of our marriage into a distant memory that is past and making our future what we both want. You can do the same if you truly want to, but it won't always be easy just make sure it's worth it.

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    2. Good advice, Anon #2. Betrayal affects our sense of who we are, our sense of safety. It takes a long time to heal but therapy can give us a safe space to work through it. The heartache will fade if you're able to see a more compassionate, open-hearted relationship emerge from the pain.

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  16. Thirty years of marriage this weekend and four months ago my world fell apart. My husband travels for work and he has been having an affair for the last 4 years.
    I intercepted a text and from there I've spent the last 4 months trying to get the whole story out of him. Yesterday he told me it was my fault. I fell apart and I don't know what's next. He did apologize and he wants to work it out but how do you? I grew up in a home where my dad had a girlfriend from before I was born until he died. I went to school with his girlfriends daughter and she told everyone about my dad and her mom. I thought I had married someone different. How could I have been so wrong?
    I've told no one and I have no one I can tell. Thank you for listening.

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    1. You have us -- an army of women who know your pain and can guide you through it.
      I'm so sorry for what you're going through. This is NOT your fault. Nothing you did caused him to choose to go outside his marriage for what should have been sought inside his marriage.
      Are you in counselling with him or alone (or both)? Are you interested in rebuild your marriage. I would urge you to start by trying to heal yourself first. Betrayal triggers deep wounds in us (especially if we've experienced it before, as you did with your father). This is undoubtedly re-opening horrible pain from your childhood.
      You'll get through this, please know that. The name of the game right now is to focus on you and what you need to get through. Be gentle with yourself. Nurture yourself. Don't expect too much of yourself. You'll get there.

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  17. I am 14 months past D Day and things are going pretty well for the most part. I still have triggers and moments where I doubt if my husband is where he wants to be. We have been together for 32 years. We started dating when I was 15 and he was my first and only sexual partner. On October 22, 2013 he confessed to having an affair. When I asked how long, his answer was like a punch in the stomach, 'long enough to have feelings'. I would later find out it was going on for two years. I was devastated, in shock for weeks, unable to keep food down, unable to sleep, crying all the time, but somehow able to still get through work. I still don't know how I did it. My husband was remorseful and indicated he wanted to work things out if I was willing. For the first 8 or 9 months I felt like he was doing everything he could to help me through this. He was supportive and patient while I processed things and answered questions when I needed answers. However, things have changed slightly in the last several months. I feel like he just wants to forget it ever happened and not talk about things anymore. He seems more impatient when I have setbacks and not able to meet my needs. I have told him repeatedly that I need him to tell me when he thinks I look nice, or when he finds me attractive. For some reason he is unable to do this. When I get dressed up and feeling good, I get complements from friends and coworkers telling me I look nice, but nothing from him. He has said that he doesn’t feel like his words mean anything anymore, because of all the lies he told. I read all of the emails between them and he knows I read words to her, telling her how special and beautiful she was and he thinks that’s why I want him to say those same words to me. It’s true, I do, but not because he said them to her, because he thinks it about me. I don’t want him to say I look nice if he doesn’t think it. But how can so many other people complement me when I look nice, and he doesn’t say a word. It makes me wonder if he doesn’t see me that way anymore; doesn’t find me sexy or beautiful anymore. He had stopped saying those things to me long before he started the affair. I just wonder if anyone else has experienced this with their husbands. In every other way he is doing the right things. We talk more, spend more time together, are more intimate, but he just can’t say the things to me that I need to hear. I need reassurance that he is happy and satisfied in our marriage. What if he no longer finds me desirable after being with someone that was more promiscuous? We are still going to counselling together, and he goes alone as well. He is still trying to figure out how he could have done this and he has had a hard time forgiving himself. This was completely out of character for him.

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    1. I think what you're asking for is completely legitimate. We all need to know that our partner finds us attractive, especially after an affair. If he has a hard time saying it and believes his words sound hollow, is there something else he could do? Could he perhaps write you a letter about how he feels? Buy you small gifts? Give you a wink and squeeze your hand -- anything to just let you know that he thinks you're really great? A lot of men just aren't as verbal as women...but if you've expressed that this is important to you, then he should at least try and find some way to fulfill that need. See if he has any ideas about how he could express himself in a way that feels authentic to him and to you.

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    2. I learned to say to my husband how I feel. I would say I feel like you don't find me attractive. He can't read your mind or guess at what you need. The biggest disappoints come when we say "well he should have known this or that." I tell my husband what I need. Including I need you to surprise me with something, I need to feel special. I'm feeling alone. I feel unwanted. I always start our with what I need. I need a Christmas gift bigger and more expensive than what you bought her. To my surprise he is happy to do it. To my surprise he doesn't want Super woman, just someone who needs him.

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    3. I think both Elle & Lynn pain are right. First u have to tell him exactly what u need (verbal compliments) & why (so what if it's because he said those things to her). I emailed my husband one day about one of her voicemails saying how happy she was when he held her hand & when was the last time he held mine. U know what? About a week later he held my hand while we were watching a movie.

      Second, if he feels uncomfortable saying it, u should discuss it not just drop it. Discuss what alternatives he would feel comfortable with. It's ok if saying it to u makes him feel like a two-face no good liar. Give him some of Elle's suggestions.

      Sam

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  18. looking for advice
    I am just over 1 year from D day and it has been a hard year. The advice I'm looking for is related to contact from the OW. My husband tried to end things with the other woman several times during the affair. (I know this is true because I read every email exchanged between them, during my detective phase after discovery) Each time he tried to end it, telling her he loved me and couldn't continue doing this to me, and how he couldn't stand who he'd become, she would lay on the manipulation. At first it was how she loved him and couldn't stand to lose him and she would stop pressuring him to leave me, if he would just keep seeing her. But later it became more manipulative, threatening to tell me and then threatening suicide if he left her. She suffered from mental illness and was on medication for it. She would take too many of her meds, when she wanted to convince him she 'needed' him. Eventually he confessed to me and we decided to try to work things out. He was concerned about her mental state, so we agreed that he would end it by arranging a meeting with her and her therapist. So that she would have support to help her deal with it. She freaked out at the therapist's office and refused to listen to anything my husband had to say. We thought that was the end of it. We were wrong. A couple months later she contacted my husband, he wasn't supposed to have contact with her, but he phoned her back to tell her it was over. He told her he loved his wife and was working things out, but he also told her he had had feelings for her and he was sorry for hurting her. She then sent him a series of emails,switching from lashing out at him to apologizing and asking him to meet her for coffee. I read these emails before he deleted them, which is how I found out about the contact. Even though we had agreed that he would not have any contact and would tell me if she tried. Several months went by and then she ran into him in a coffee shop and approached him to tell him she still loved him and he could text her or call if he wanted. He told me about the contact, but not that she said she loved him and for him to contact her. He phoned her and arranged to meet her for coffee but then came to his senses and texted her and told her he couldn't meet her, that it was over, that he loved his wife. She lost it and sent him a scathing letter calling him every name under the sun. She indicated at the end of the letter, that if he didn't respond to let her know he got it that she would bring it to his home or office. We decided to respond with 'Got it' and left it at that. (He showed me the emails, but didn't tell me about the phone call or arranged coffee meeting. I found out about that later) Again we thought it was over. Three months later she sent him a letter professing her love for him and how she would never get over him and how much he taught her about love, blah, blah, blah. He shared this email with me right away and we did not respond. Now 13 months from D Day, she has viewed his linkedin profile twice last month and he didn't tell me. I found out through an email notification. I am frustrated that he still chooses to keep some things from me. Presumably to not hurt me again, but it was clear that he was to share any kind of contact. He has shared voice mails and emails and texts, but has hidden those two phone calls that he initiated and now these profile views. I understand the phone calls at the beginning, he was feeling remorse for hurting her as well as me, and he was still confused. But now it's been over a year, so why does he still insist on keeping some things from me. He says he didn't think the profile view was a big deal, but to me it is significant and it shows she has still not moved on. And it shows he is still deciding what to tell me or keep from me.

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    1. I think you're absolutely right to view his sporadic confessions as evidence that he's not being completely transparent. You shouldn't be relying on him to tell you -- you should have access to any and all accounts, devices, whatevers. You should be able to check up at any time. This is, ideally, to help you rebuild trust so that you can see whenever necessary that he's not hiding anything. If he is, in fact, hiding something, then hopefully that will be clear (or at least raise red flags as certain things missing) and you can proceed based on that awareness.
      In this case, it's not clear who's the crazier person -- the OW or your husband. I can't imagine not wanting to run like hell from someone as messed up as she seems to be. Instead, he's telling her he loves her and meeting her for coffee? I get that he might be feeling guilt or fear that she'll do something drastic to herself or him (or, God forbid, you). But people like her generally are full of bluster and bullshit. My guess is, if he completely cut off contact and made it clear that a restraining order will be taken out if she ever contacts him or you and anyone in his life again, she'll move on to another poor soul who will endure her drama. This isn't "love", it's self-indulgent obsession. It's outright harassment and your husband is inviting her to continue. It's time to end it. Absolutely no contact. If she violates that, she can talk to a police officer about it.

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  19. Struggling Mom here...

    Spent New Year's Day struggling through D-Day #4. We've been together for 22 years and are 11 months out from D-Day #1 for Affair #2. This was by far the most painful revelation day. I've been crying almost non-stop for days. That's when I'm not dry heaving. I can't sleep or eat. The nightmares have started again. We had actually been making progress, or so it seemed. Now I feel like we're back at square one. Damn trickle truth. When does it end?

    My husband has been trying really hard to be there for me. I've got to give him that. But he has really been struggling with honesty. I've caught him in so many lies. Some are even unrelated to infidelity. I can't trust him. I can't even trust him to be honest with me. Where does that leave us? He held back information that he knew would make me reconsider staying. He asked me to renew our vows while withholding this information. Now that I know, I'm even more confused about what I should do. I relegated him to the couch, and took his wedding ring from him. He says he's willing to do whatever it takes to show me that he is worthy of (and has respect for) his wedding ring again. He's found himself an infidelity support group and is taking the process / program seriously. The problem is that this new information of what he's done and the manipulation /deception that is behind it is having a horrific impact on me. The thought of being physically intimate with him makes my skin crawl. We initially went through hysterical bonding, but as I began to process everything, sex with him became more difficult because I was unable to escape the mind movies and graphic images that would pop into my head. Combine that with destroyed self-esteem, and our sex life was suffering. And now, I can't imagine ever wanting him to touch me that way again. I know I shouldn't make any life - changing decisions while I am in so much pain, but it seems as though this is the nail in the coffin that was our marriage...

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    1. We all have our deal-breakers and you're the one who gets to decide what that is.
      I think you'd be wise to simply focus on yourself right now. Put aside any questions about whether or not you can forgive what he's done and simply engage in self-triage. Tend to the wound, so to speak. Eat what you can (soup and smoothies?), sleep if you can (melatonin? Gravol?), confide if there are people around you who can simply listen and nurture without giving advice or getting angry on your behalf. Be gentle with yourself.
      Once you're feeling stronger, your next move might be more clear – whatever direction that takes you.

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  20. I'm now a few days more than a year since my D-Day. I admit that when the day draws closer, I can feel myself getting moodier. My husband tried to do some things special for me (DIY cards) for me. The day sailed past without any major issues.

    But after New Years Day, suddenly, I feel depressed and cannot control my emotions.

    I started to be abusive (physically and verbally) to my husband and let loose all my emotions. I cried for 4-5 straight hours in 1 afternoon, threatening to leave my husband. I also pressured him into sending a message to a Group Chat with his colleagues (knowingly he's afraid of letting people @ work know about his affair) admitting that he'd something going on with her when he was based overseas.Though the msg was recalled, some of his colleagues saw the msg and asked him what is it about and thought that it maybe a joke.

    I'm not sure what triggered me and feeling a bit lost now. I felt guilty of what I'd done as I know my husband was trying hard to rebuild the marriage, as well as depressed over the whole affair. So far only my husband's mother and sister know about his affair but had not spoken much to me about it after the first month of D Day. I feel tired as if I'm wearing a fake mask showing everyone that my marriage is okay and we're blissful as they thought.

    What should I do?
    And should I encourage him to admit to his colleagues if they ask about the group chat message?

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    1. Betrayal takes so many of us to the lowest point we've ever been -- not just feeling low, but in our actions. I did things I never dreamed I could have, including knocking a TV set down and smashing an expensive watch. It all seems rather ridiculous now but I simply didn't know how else to express this overwhelming pain inside. I wanted to destroy things as a way of making my pain visible.
      I wonder if that's what's going on with you right now. You mentioned the mask that you wear. That can feel suffocating after awhile. You feel as if you're being asked to hide your own pain -- though you did nothing wrong -- in order to protect the person who doesn't deserve protecting. The person who didn't protect you.
      You need an outlet, I think. You need acknowledgement of your pain, by your self and by those around you. Do you have a therapist with whom you can share all of this? A close friend? This site? Anti-versaries generally do bring up a whole lot of issues we thought were dead and buried. But forewarned is forearmed.

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  21. My husband had a secret email account that he used to share messages and photos with the OW. I have access to his phone records and normal email accounts but do not have the password to this email. He swears he has not access to this now and never will. If I insist on having the password there is nothing to stop him setting up another account unknown to me so I have decided to leave it and try to stop attempts at guessing it. It is so easy to set up accounts, buy cellphones etc that being able to check known contact methods is pointless (unless they don't know you check). He knows my thoughts on this and swears there are no other accounts etc and I am trying to keep that in my mind whenever I get paranoid and 'detective' like.

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    1. You're right. But I generally figure we don't need to make it easy for them.
      I also agree that, at a certain point, you have to decide whether or not to trust again. Playing detective can become addictive...and unhealthy. That said, I think it's important to trust that gut feeling we often get that something just doesn't seem right. To learn to discern when we're being paranoid...and when our instincts are an early-warning system.

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  22. it is a year and half since i rang my husband of 45 years mobile wondering why he was late for an outing with family. i connected for some really strange reason through to him and he was talking to his lover (i had no idea) she was telling him off saying it should be them going out on a friday night as they had been in bed all afternoon and now he was simply going out with HER(me)
    I listened to him cajoling her telling her how much he loved her and not me.
    I was in shock and so much pain .he admitted his 2 year affair promised me it was over as he had not left and gone with her because he loved me.
    For the following 6 months he tryed to leave her but couldnt and after losing my hair and 4 stone with stress i attempted suicide but they pulled me back from the edge and i survived.
    Now he accuses me of being too clingy, needy and anxious.
    All of which is true.Will this feeling of pain and hurt ever go away. i love him with all my heart but she was 20 years younger than me and a colleague he loved her very much. He showed me dozens of pornographic photos of them together even having sex naked under a tree.
    I cannot rid my brain of those images .will it always be this painful .i really need a hug i feel so scared and lonely.
    He accuses me of being paranoid ,maybe i am all i know is my heart is broken. i rise above it most of the time but today is a bad one i simply cannot stop crying

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    1. Oh sweetheart, you are not "paranoid", you are traumatized. And there is absolutely no shame in that. You've been dragged through hell. Of course you're feeling "clingy, needy and anxious". You'd be crazy NOT to feel that way when the person you trusted your entire life lies to you, doesn't break off an affair, shows you dozens of pornographic images (!!!) and then blames YOU for the pain you're in? What the hell is up with that? Just how did he think this was going to play out?
      What I want to know is what are you doing for yourself right now to help you heal from this? He's clearly not helping and I hope you will, at some point in the future, look at him with wide-open eyes and determine if he's worth your love. But right now I want you to be your very own best friend. And I want you to imagine what you would do for your very own best friend. You'd likely make her tea, wrap her in a blanket, surround her with the things she loves, remind her as often a she needs to hear it that she's a wonderful human being worthy of love and kindness. Maybe you'd treat her to a massage or a facial or a day of shopping for clothes that make her feel beautiful. Maybe you'd let her spend the day in bed with the covers pulled over her head. Maybe you'd encourage her to find a counsellor she can talk to about the excruciating pain of betrayal -- someone who can help her understand that his cheating was not her fault.
      Of course, your heart is broken. We all understand that. We understand the deep, deep pain. We understand wanting to go to sleep and never wake up because the pain feels so much bigger than anything we can ever handle. But, from our vantage point further down the path of healing, we also understand that you won't always feel this way. We know that with support and compassion, you will come to a place where you understand that his affair is not your fault, was never your fault. That his ability to lie and deceive you and then blame you for being "clingy, needy and anxious" says so much more about the man he is than the person you are. You'll get there, I promise. Just keep on showing up for yourself, day after day. Be so gentle with yourself. Get yourself some support in the form of a smart, compassionate counsellor (not all of them all so be picky!). And come back here as often as you need to for us to remind you just how wonderful and normal you are.

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  23. To the above posters I am crying with you. Hang in. It sucks but will get better. The mind movies won't last forever. Cry if it helps; that will stop at some point too. Keep us posted. I think it helps to write the feelings down, ESP when u have no one else to talk to (I told no one & we didn't go to therapy, so instead I would email myself & sometimes my husband).

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    1. thank you so very much for listening. I have felt so lonely so low in self esteem. i have adored my husband since i was 17 years old,never have had another sexual partner and have honestly done my best to please him all my life.
      i think it was divine intervention that somehow connected me through to overhear him with her as i had no idea .she was his student (mature aged 48) he is a 68 year old lecturer and pillar of society. i forgave the affair and only untraveled after he asked permission to let her down gently i reluctantly agreed then had 6 months of hell when he came home covered in love bites and bruises smelling of her. she also rang telling me it was her he loved and told me to get lost let him have the life he wanted with her.
      I lost all respect for myself and hope because she rang me on his phone which i answered "Hello darling where are you dinner is ready" she laughed in my face told me he was sat by her side and did not want me anymore .
      He came back paralytic drunk saying he had no idea she had phoned me. he got drunk every time he saw her.
      We have been better for over a year now but i am still in so much mental pain. he told me he let me see the porn photos of them to let me see it was just sex but they were extremely horrid close ups of him inside her and worse.
      I am in so much pain yet i love him and feel so alone in this because until i found you who could i ever tell this terrible stuff too.i feel such a fool as he blamed me for making him feel less than a man !!!!! How?
      I am acknowledged as a good looking who has a soft heart . i never belittled him always loved him and kept myself attractive.What did i do so wrong

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    2. Made him less than a man? Puh-leeze!! Less than a man is the guy who screws around with a student instead of talking to his wife about whatever is bothering him. Don't you DARE take this on as your problem. It's entirely on him.
      What is he doing now to support you in your healing? Does he truly acknowledge just how much pain he's caused you? How cruel he was to carry on an affair under your nose? How cruel and vindictive this Other Woman was? She is toxic! And clearly he was too.
      Again, I urge you to make your own healing the absolute priority. Your job is not to make him love you again...it's to make YOU love you again. Please get yourself a wonderful counsellor to help you through all this pain. And, though I know that anger is a mask for hurt and pain, it wouldn't hurt for you to get a bit enraged on your behalf. You're hurting yourself...when your anger is far more healthily directed at him. What he did was an absolute and total betrayal of the woman he promised to love and cherish. HE's the one who should be feeling low self-esteem. He should be disgusted with himself.
      However...back to you. Focus on you. And please continue to share here. There are so many wonderful, smart and compassionate women on this site who've been where you are. We'll be your guides.

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  24. It sucks, the entire situation sucks! I have been through it and survived and while it may not seem like it at times you do heal. You will have good days and bad days but eventually you look back and see how far you have come. Be proud on those days, be proud of the strength you have found and love the person you have become from all the pain and suffering. I guarantee that you are a better person, even if you can't see it now. I have a blog if anyone is interested in following. It's my story and how I have survived and how I am healing from my husbands affair. www.beautyandthewife.blogspot.com or follow my Facebook page, The Honest Wife https://www.facebook.com/beautyandthewife

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    1. Thank you ,i feel better writing all this down as i have bottled it up for so long. My husband is not in the least remorseful he says often that ow made us better. she made him feel a man and looked up too .
      I swear that not one day in our years together have i ever not looked up to him. I think he has had a late mid life crisis. He is behaving so differently now. He is pushing me to let him be his own man who has lots of woman friends and wants the freedom to see them.
      I am so tired of trying to be the woman he wants . He is constantly angry with me as if it is my fault all this mess happened.Told me this morning that i bore him and he needs to get space away from me.
      All i want is his happiness as he seams so unhappy and is retiring in June and says he cannot face being with me 24-7. i am very anxious i must admit ,i feel very insecure and am always saying sorry, i will try harder to be more assertive and independent as are the female colleagues he is such good friends with and admires.
      One in particular he wants to go out for the day hill walking with (our joint hobby) The trouble is that he went alone a year ago on a day that was pouring with rain came back dry and covered in love bites ...yes he had a day in bed with OW .i am struggling to believe him even though i think the affair is definitely over.How do i get strong enough to let him do all these things without going crazy myself.

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    2. Honey, you don't have to sacrifice yourself on the alter of his ego. You are in an abusive relationship. He is abusing you emotionally. This is so NOT okay in any world, let alone a post-betrayal one. He should be begging you to forgive him for the pain he's caused you, not begging you to let him continue friendships with women even though he's done nothing to show you that he's learned a damn thing from this.
      Please, please PLEASE seek counselling. You deserve so much better than this. Take the time to discover just how incredible you really are -- begin treating yourself with the respect that everyone should be showing you.
      You are in such pain and his response is to share your joint hobby with other women. No. I'm enraged by his nastiness and casual cruelty.
      Everything you're feeling -- the anxiety, the fear, the deep deep sadness -- is all completely NORMAL after betrayal. If it was a problem even before, then that's something that also needs addressing. But I suspect life with him hasn't exactly been a source of comfort and joy.
      Please...call a counsellor today and make an appointment. You need more people in your corner to support you through this. This is the first day of the new you that is NOT going to put up with disrespect any longer! (Or is at least going to learn to recognize disrespect!)

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  25. thank you for your kind words. I am lost in a kind of deep fog that never clears.He tells me how much he loves me every day but to be honest i am not certain.
    He is behaving so cruelly shouts at me says i have put him in prison that he dare not move without me looking like a frightened rabbit caught in headlights.
    The truth is that is exactly how i feel.terrified all the time,i admit that i am hyper vigilant and have panic attacks when he is out.Yes i admit that just at the moment life is very hard for me.His constant shouting at me to grow up and not be a stupid child to let him be the free man he is ad not tie him to my side is distressing beyond belief.
    After my suicide attempt i had to see a councilor and was helped a lot but everything ends and i am now alone with my grief.
    I want to get back to the way we were.We had a lovely life together.I am not even sure that he is not ill in some way as he has changed beyond recognition
    judge him on 45 years of what i believe to be a happy loving marriage.I feel as if i love him enough most of the time to cope but have spent dozens of hour sobbing over the past few days.i simply am trying to find my way out of this mess and feel that his mid life crisis is so extreme that i do not know him any more.I will try to listen to you and am truly grateful that you are listening to me. I cannot tell you how good it feels to get all this off of my chest. thankyou

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    1. It's so important that you have a safe place to share your pain. But just talking about it isn't always enough. Please call the counsellor that was so helpful and make another appointment. This is a LONG process. She might have helped you deal with the suicidal impulses...but there's still a lot to process. And, again, he is abusive. Maybe he's ill or maybe he's just an abuser. Either way, you need support.

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    2. It absolutely infuriates me to hear how this man is treating you. Please, please, please don't let this continue. Fighting to rebuild a marriage is hard enough with a loving, remorseful husband, but what this man is doing and saying is absolutely horrible. You need to talk to a counselor, you need to understand that you have done nothing wrong, and you need to consider that your future may be a lot brighter without him in it. You deserve better than you're getting from him. You know you do. Take some time, build yourself up, ignore him for now, check into your finances, speak to an attorney and know your options. Stack the deck in your favor before you decide how you'd like to proceed. If he doesn't change this behavior he isn't worth the effort.

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  26. I am so confused!! in the middle of the night (2.30) i was awoken by my husband holding my hand,I became aware of him holding me and stroking me with the other hand,i murmured and he rushed to hug me saying "i am so sorry baby i hate to see you cry,i love you so very much,you are the most beautiful lovely kind woman in the world,i could never love anyone as much as i love you" !!!!!!
    I hugged him and kissed him and told him that i knew he was struggling but that my broken heart needs time to heal and all the kicking to be a free man and yelling at me being insecure is not helping rather hindering my healing.
    He asked me not to talk anymore and try to go back to sleep ,then he fell back asleep in my arms.
    How confusing !!!! I actually felt very sad for us both. what a mess he has created.
    but somehow i felt that was the nearest i will ever get to an apology..
    this morning my heart is lighter. i have you friends now that i can talk too and listen to your opinions and i feel that my husband is remorseful even if it was in the middle of the night.Why do we love our men so much? why do they find us so unimportant that they look elsewhere? I am beginning to believe that i will recover because i have found you all.I am no linger alone.
    i will consider trying to get back to my lovely councilor only trouble for me is that OW and my husband are both councilors, He lectures on Psychology she was a student and practicing councilor ! so my faith in that profession is non existent.
    I know that i needed to talk. now i feel i can.Thankyou

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  27. i wish i had not shared that middle of the night moment with you all because nothing has changed .he seams still angry at my insecurity and i still am hanging in there trying to "get a grip" as he constantly tells me.that if i had f****d someone else i would realize that it is just sex and not the big thing i make it!!!!!! am i a simple fool believing that sex was OURS a way to show our love and closeness. I feel really naive and lost.just now

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    Replies
    1. I'm so sorry you are going through this. You don't deserve his behavior and you need to know that. He needs to understand it isn't just sex to you and belittling the act to you is disrespectful. If he truly wants to be forgiven and not lose you, he needs to respect you as well. YOU ARE VALUABLE AND SO ARE YOUR FEELINGS! Don't forget that and don't belittle it yourself. Value who you are and take strength in it. I know it is hard. All of us here have taken a blow to our self worth. Do things every day to remind yourself that you are worthy of better. And know that his behavior has more to do with him and not you.

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  28. Hey Anon,
    Don't regret sharing this with you.
    What I have learned is that training in counselling and psychology doesn't mean that someone is practicing the behavior they need to in the real world. My H has a masters in counselling psychology and failed big time for a long time. In fact, most people enter the field because they need it in the first place. I realize that I have way more psychological grounding than he does, despite my lack of training.
    I am also recognizing that our therapists are people too and ours have made mistakes. They are not gods. The really good ones, have done the personal work on themselves. Find someone like that.

    The hope is that ultimately, your H will get the right support so that he can connect his behavior with what he knows intellectually. It is a big secret of the profession but alot of counsellors end up in affairs or cross other boundaries. If she was a practicing counselor, I feel very sorry for her clients.

    I know it is confusing behavior but it can be seen as evidence of his torment over his split self and compartmentalization. He will be angry with you because his mind wants to deflect from seeing his failures. And then he might have moments of recognizing his his shortcoming and failures. He may or may not get to a place of healing this part of himself. But that is his problem.
    Don't let up on what you need, protecting yourself, holding boundaries with him, acknowledging your feelings and pain, and healing yourself. You deserve to find a safe place in real life to share these feelings with--a therapist or support group. Take your care into your own hands for now. He may or may not come around. You can let him know that you will give him time to do that, if you wish. But he needs to know that his current behavior will end up costing him your relationship, if it continues for much longer. YOU DESERVE BETTER!
    -MBS

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    1. To anon

      Don't ever regret sharing anything here. The great thing abt this site is its all anonymous, even when u lost ur full name people are here from all over the world. We won't meet or pass u on the street or talk on the phone. No one will judge u. And chances are no matter what u write here someone else has thought it, written it, or experienced it.

      It helps u to write it & let it out so these things are not bottled up. It also helps someone else who may be goog thru the same thing & not be courageous enough to say it or may not realize until they read ur words.

      Thank u for sharing.

      Sam

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    2. can any one help me to stop upsetting my husband. i am so tired of crying and saying "sorry".Things go along ok and we seam happy then BAM!!! i say something that makes him wild with anger ,i cry and try to get him to forgive me he pushes to hurt me deeper and i cry more. i am not as strong as him. i end up telling him how much i love him and he looks at me and says"Duur,thicko,do not start it then, think before you open your stupid mouth,i was happy and optimistic now i am back to pist off! well done!!" (that is word for word what he said and much more)
      What i would like is you all to listen to what i did and tell me how to avoid this pain.
      We were walking along happily,we were talking about our friends and their rocky relationship,we mentioned several of them all have been in multiple relationships yet are still not happy,i said that i just hated listening to their convoluted love lives as i could not understand hat they were looking for,he replied that they got fed up in the bad relationship they found themselves in so looked for comfort and thought it was real love,i replied i simply cannot understand how you can look at someone and think they are better and fall in love as i have never been in that position.he said "oh it happens there for the grace of God goes you" I asked him to stop as it was getting personal and he said angrily " It always does with you its impossible to have a grown up conversation with you" i felt myself loose control and said "Well you will have to explain because you fell in love just like they all did!"
      Oh dear ,he erupted like a volcano spewing how rotten i was to him how i used him for years as a taxi driver and free money that if he had not have had OW he had wanted to walk under a bus"! now we are back to square one again What he is talking about is the years our grown up son lived at home and continually fought with him,he says i never gave him any support and got back what i gave out.
      OMG i feel so miserable because i simply did my best stood between two bucks trying to help them both,i went into a bad depression myself but on my heart i never took sides i love my husband and knew our son was being horrid but i could never help o i gave up and tried to be happy .He obviously blames me deeply and unless i can learn to keep my mouth shut i am destined for more tears .honest advice welcomed .Please what am i doing so wrong

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    3. You are doing NOTHING wrong except allowing yourself to be manipulated by your husband. He is being abusive and cruel, blaming YOU for his choice to cheat. If he was unhappy then he had plenty of options that did not involve cheating on you. Problems in the relationship can be dealt with as adults, not as a lying cheat. He says YOU aren't grown up enough? Give me a break.
      He is using anger to manipulate you and I bet he always has. He gets mad and you immediately apologize and back down EVEN WHEN YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. It's an incredibly unhealthy dynamic and one that I would strongly urge you to address in therapy. You can't win with someone like that because he's not actually interested in working anything out but rather in controlling you and holding you to blame for HIS choices.
      You don't need to be back and square one because you can learn from this, which puts you further ahead even if he refuses to join you there. If there are issues between him and your son, I wouldn't be surprised if it's because of the same dynamic -- your husband trying to control another person and taking no responsibility for himself.
      Frankly, he's the biggest child.

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    4. Do you know how wonderful it is to talk to someone. we are still sat not talking i am so unhappy because whatever i say or do he will be angry.He TRULY believes that i am stupid and do not think before i speak but truth told i have tried everything in my power to be quiet and loving and it never works. He seams to think that i should be well over it by now and blames me for "wallowing in self pity" I am beyond heartbroken ,all this is so very painful,my life is torn apart and unless i keep my mouth shut and not refer to anything but" here and now" he is violently mad. Luckily he is not physically violent just angry and cruel verbally.
      My self esteem has hit rock bottom now and yet all i have ever wanted is for us to be happy.
      Ironically our son who is 38 emigrated after his fathers affair and will not speak to me because he told me that i was stupid to stay and be humiliated as his father was a monster.
      Well he is so like his dad that i had to laugh.
      Till i found you i just wanted to go to sleep forever (still do on days like this)I know my husband is manipulative and believes that he is ALWAYS right .I have always known that about him but love him as he is. I hang on to you all telling me that it will get easier. if i can stop reacting negatively about his 2 year affair i am sure it will work out .But who knew the pain could be this horrendous.
      I have applied to go into therapy even though i am scared stiff because i know so many therapists who are not good or nice people. But i have to move forward i realize that at 66 i have to get on with it before it is too late.My problem is that my love has not turned to hate.I still love that awkward man..Thank you for your advice

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    5. Hi Anon,
      You can still love him but recognize that he is not treating you the way you want or deserve. He is abusive. It will get better if he stops treating you that way or you leave. Since you cannot make him or anyone else do anything, you have to look at your own choices.

      Forgive my bluntness, but you sound like woman who has been emotionally abused for years. Your son is angry at being around that abuse. He is also verbally abusive to you, a sure sign of your husband's abuse.

      For a marriage to work out after an affair, the person who had the affair has to change. It doesn't just work out by waiting around and letting time pass. It also sounds as if the affair was the tip of the iceberg of bad behavior and disrespect of you .

      You can love him, have compassion for him, want to stay married--but that doesn't mean you should stay with him under the status quo.

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    6. Your husband's treatment of you (and you tolerating that treatment) has already cost you a relationship with your son. I suspect it has also cost you in many other ways.
      I'm so glad you're seeing a therapist. Therapists are not necessarily people you want to be friends with. They are there to perform a job, which is to help you focus on parts of your life where you're struggling. They are there not to be perfect but to help you heal from pain and create change in your own life. I suspect if you can keep your mind open enough to hear what a therapist is telling you, you'll learn a great deal about yourself and find a safe space in which to grow and learn to trust yourself.
      You deserve to be treated with respect and kindness and compassion. Your husband is offering none of that, so that makes it even more important that you give it to yourself. But you need to learn how to treat yourself with respect. It begins with understanding, deep deep in your heart and soul, that you have worth. You have value simply because you exist. From that understanding, all things are possible. Start there.

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    7. Thank you for your time replying to me.I am once again sat crying,this is so bad at the moment i am distraught.Why does my emotions fluctuate so badly.I get to feel better and even happy then i create anger and he goes straight on to the attack,how for years i made him feel so useless,used and hurt by taking our sons side against him!!! SO NOT TRUE.
      I tried everything in my power to help them both through the anger and arguments which was really hard for me as i am so frightened of anger.I am a total pacifist,anyone that knows me smiles at my gentle meekness because i show my fear in my face and wring my hands when faced with raised voices.I have been in therapy many times because i had a terribly angry abusive father who had no patience and displayed little love or compassion for my "nervous" nature, so i find it so very difficult when my husband says the very same words my father did all those years ago.
      I am an older woman now and feel that i am back to the scared little girl frightened that i am not good enough,loving my husband more than he can ever love me (as i felt about my father)
      Frankly i am trying so hard to pull myself through this mess but this morning i looked at my husband and pictured him with OW i cried openly but when he said "What is the matter NOW!".i simply told him that i was worried about my parents who are in their late 80s and have dementia.
      In the end i am torturing myself will i ever stop these thoughts popping into my head.i do hope so

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    8. I'm also terrified of anger. I shrink -- I become like a frightened child.
      It's no wonder you have such fear of anger with a father, whose job was to keep you safe, instead making your world unsafe.
      Anger is fear and hurt in disguise. It's fear and hurt trying to appear strong. Your husband's anger is that, your father's anger was that, and your own anger is that. Your anger keeps resurfacing because your hurt and fear isn't being acknowledged and addressed. You are in such pain, and that pain needs your attention. It's crying out for you to notice it.
      The thing is, once we pay attention to our hurt and fear, over weeks and months, it begins to nudge us in the right direction. It points us to the actions we need to take to keep ourselves safe, if we pay attention.
      You can't keep ignoring it because it will keep surfacing. But if you look past the anger to the hurt, you can address the source.
      Your husband is treating you just like your father because that's what you've allowed. It may not feel comfortable to you but it does feel familiar. And so often we create in our adult lives what we knew in our childhood.
      Your husband's anger silences you, which is why he uses it. It forces you to stop holding up the mirror to him where he sees his own failings. He hates the person he is, but likely has no true understanding of just how deep his self-hatred goes. So he lashes out at you.
      I'll say it again. You need to find a therapist who will guide you to a place where you're strong enough to treat yourself with respect and refuse to tolerate his abuse. You can get there...but you need support. And you need to begin by understanding that you don't deserve any of the abuse you've been subjected to. Not by your father. Not by your mother who didn't protect you from it. Not by your husband. Not by your son. NOTHING. You are a sensitive soul who deserves to be honoured and protected and respected. Find yourself a counsellor who will help you. You deserve so much more than this.

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    9. thank you Elle,i do appreciate your kind words. You are so very wise and understanding.
      Because of my childhood i have had to see several therapists because being too sensitive i have suffered deep depression sadness and OCD .
      I have loved my husband since i first met him when i was just 16.He was so quiet and kind not very demonstrative or romantic but loving in a quiet way. i loved the peace he bought into my difficult life, he was the very opposite of my large ,loud aggressive heavy drinking father.I fell so in love with him that even back then i would have given my life to please him.
      He was only 18 himself and as we grew up together of course we both changed ,he grew stronger and i think i let him be my hero and leader.
      Our son always told me that it was me that turned his father into the controlling know all (his words not mine) that he became. he blames my non assertive placid nature tells me to stop trying to be the good girl.At 66 i think i am unlikely to change.
      I thought we were so happy as he appeared to love my easy going loving nature yet he admitted the OW was assertive and pushy often hard faced and unkind yet she excited him,he loved to push her to see how far she would go for him and she never pushed him away even though they drank heavily together and actually fought in bed knocking each other from the bed to the ground.he was often covered in bruises.
      I was distraught because our sex life was so good and loving but to me very hot and satisfying.I even offered to be rough in bed if he prefered to which he laughed gave me a hug and told me i was lovely and loving and never to change.
      So why need OW?
      my last therapist told me that this situation was bound to destroy my self confidence because he was being emotionally cruel as indeed my father had been.
      i do so want to get back my self esteem because i feel so useless so uninteresting and fun.
      I think at times when i am feeling stronger how stupid this self doubt is because i am told often that i do not look anywhere near my age and am relatively good looking and love being sociable ,dancing and entertaining .Yet i feel so unsure of myself most of the time now. Somehow i let this love affair my husband had take my belief in everything away leaving me so sad lonely and scared
      I am trying to find a therapist honestly,talking to you honestly from my heart really helps me .thankyou

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    10. You need to remind yourself, as often and as loudly as possible, you did NOTHING to make your husband cheat. If you had been an aggressive type, he might have found a meeker woman. Who knows? But you are NOT responsible for his personality and you are not responsible for his choices. That's completely on him.
      He didn't cheat because you're unattractive. He didn't cheat because you're loving and kind. He didn't cheat because you don't beat him up in bed (!!!!). He didn't cheat because you don't get drunk with him. He cheated because he was looking for something outside himself that he likely didn't realize he was missing. He cheated because, as I've said here before, opportunity met moral failing. He cheated because he told himself some story that made it okay to lie and deceive and devastate the person he promised to love. And THAT is what he needs to understand about himself. What was he seeking outside his marriage and outside himself that made this okay?
      That's for HIM to figure out. It's for YOU to figure out why you've allowed him to behave like an arrogant know-it-all. It's for YOU to come to terms with who you are and what you want in life -- where your boundaries are and how to enforce them. My guess is you've spent a lifetime doing and being what others wanted from you. At 66, it's time to get to know yourself...and love yourself.

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    11. are you a trained therapist? you say the very same things my last one did.I think i was born with too much love to give and never had the chance. I was repeatedly ignored or pushed about often told i was ugly by my father.i think i never grew any self esteem.I fell heart and soul in love with the first kind man/boy i met. he gave me a good if sometimes difficult life.But nothing ever hurt me in my life like his betrayal and his OW cruelty towards me.I think i came up against a professional,he told me that she had had dozens of lovers even a millionaire and told him he was the best ever!!!
      Sadly he believed it,and as i was his only sexual partner until her she filled a gap that he had missed out on a a lad.and it was brilliant to know that he was so good in bed. Oh dear my poor deluded boy he must realize that she must tell each and every new lover the same thing. How sad.
      My heart actually aches for him as well as me.He allowed a man eater to break my heart and damage our relationship.
      Are men this stupid? As the mother of two men ,i really hope not.
      i know that he is what you call him but i also see the vulnerable person too.How i wish i could harden up and be arrogant too.
      Maybe i too lie to myself too.I tell myself that i have never been good enough to be truly loved. You help me realize i am being stupid thank you

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    12. An afterword
      I have not written to you for ages .I think you already knew that I was heading to crisis point and something had to give or I would implode!!!
      Your words were so kind,yet frank,you said it as it was and I admit that I was not in a place to listen back then..
      One day soon after my last post all Hell exploded over a silly word I had once again dared to say,He accused me of talking in parables and being judgmental when I was not in the real world! he told me he was so sick of my babyish crying and hand wringing and that he was so BORED! My tears filled him with anger.SO for the first time in my life i i rebelled and told him to get lost !!! i was SO angry and screamed at him that he was a fool and deserved OW as she had made him do as he was told ! I swear before God I told him you will never see me cry again ! I am bored with you too you are a angry manipulative pig so get lost! PHEW!
      At that I went and didn't come back until night time he was beside himself but i shrugged my shoulders and swore at him!!
      From that day forth I have been cheerful,giggly enjoying life, at first I was putting it on to let him know that I had given up caring,told him to do what the hell he wants to do from now on as I couldn't care less said that he should keep his wonderful woman friends !! I was going to do the same (bluff) in the end I was doing it for real and BINGO..He is SO changed,he laughs with me is gentle loving and has said nothing awful for a good time now.Oh i know its early days but do you know I think i got it!
      I stopped being a doormat and now he seems to have more respect for me.
      I talk to an on line Councillor through skype and he is helping me wonderfully .You helped me see that I have accepted emotional abuse all my life.I intend to never be a victim again!!!. Strangely he seems to be a little lost now and confesses things to me, like he suffered erectile dysfunction with OW as he was put off by her aggression and talk of past lovers.Oh how sad lol.
      I Thought you would like a catch up, i miss you all and will keep reading

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    13. Yay for you! It sounds as though you've found yourself in all this -- the real you that insists on respect and kindness and KNOWS that you deserve to be treated well. Keep talking to your counsellor and listen to what he says. He can guide you out of this and into your new life where you recognize and respect your own boundaries. You deserve good in your life. Thanks for sharing your progress with us.

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    14. I love this site and thank you for being there when i really needed someone to talk too.The past 2 years has been a living hell for me as it is for many of you too.I do not think that I will ever be quiet as I was before D day because i can honestly say that nothing that I have experienced in my life before affected me as my husbands affair.On some level I think I will be different forever. Somehow I lost my belief in myself,I accepted the blame,was so crazy I think I didn't even recognize myself eventually I became so frightened and did everything to make him love me which now feels embarrassing and pathetic. He did wrong yet I punished myself,blamed myself lost all my self esteem and almost lost my life in so much pain.
      Not any more! I realize that I was and to some extent still am being controlled by a man who is so delusional that he can never be wrong. He does indeed use anger to control me as I was easily intimidated.
      I love him still but refuse to be the crying gibbering wreck anymore.I refuse to let him see me cry,I get mad back,I ignore him and whether my marriage will work out with me being more assertive and dare I admit it very angry! I deserve better and you helped me work that out.
      I am hopeful that his respect for me will continue to grow .My own self esteem is growing a tiny bit every day. Pain cannot last forever and all you out there remember that.No one deserves what we have had to endure. I for one took a long time to understand that really at the end of the day I am married to a very flawed man.When I do not cry when he shouts he looks baffled when i shout back he is confused.
      Lets all try to throw off the mask of the victim and live again,laugh again and more than anything care about ourselves more than we do for our very selfish husbands .

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    15. Wow! What a transformation. Please know that the more you change and the stronger you become, the more frightened he will become and the louder he will yell. He uses anger to mask his own fear and pain. Don't back down. Keep yourself safe and keep yourself strong. Nobody deserves to EVER be treated as if they don't have value. Nobody EVER deserves to have their own needs disrespected. Hallelujah for you!

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  29. Wedding Rings? I would love to hear how others have handled wedding rings post D Day. We'll be 2 years past D Day next month. My husband of 27 years had sex with a former high school girlfriend during the 1 week he was back in our home town caring for a very sick parent and after he had just lost his job, turned 50, mid-life crises, yada yada. He's done all the right things and truly feels horrible and embarrassed about his behavior which really was cliche but completely out of character. He's made it clear that our marriage and children are the only important things in his life and has taken pains to provide open access to all his electronic devices/accounts to me. He wouldn't even fly back to visit his family without me recently since he was worried that it would cause me pain or concern. I do really feel like our relationship is better than it was before. When I'm not having a down moment (and those happen much, much less now, thank goodness and thanks to you all), I can actually be grateful that something shook us out of the rut we'd gotten into and motivated both of us to get to this much better place in our relationship and communications (wish it hadn't been infidelity, but there we are.) My question is this -- with my love for him and our happy relationship, why do I still have no desire to put my wedding rings back on? I know my family find it odd that I stopped wearing my beloved rings for the first time 2 years ago. I also told him not to wear his ring either since he ended our marriage. I view him as my partner now, and am happy with him as such. I've read what Peggy Vaughan wrote about the rings she and her husband had made after their D Days and thought about that for a time, but that still doesn't feel right. I feel torn with half of me wishing he would buy new rings for us and ask that we let those serve as a symbol of our new relationship but the other half now believes that making a lifelong commitment to another person or - worse yet - actually having a piece of jewelry symbolizing that verbal agreement -- is just silly (a.k.a. - scary, gullible, naive?) Could I be that damaged? Sigh. Have others felt like this? If so, does that ever change?

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    1. Abt 6-12 months after d day # 1 I took my rings off for abt 2 months. I'm sure my husband noticed. I just said I took them off to have them resized but couldn't get them back on. I then put them back on because I like the way they look, not because of what they symbolize.

      I had always said the only way to get my rings would be to cut my finger off or to pry them from my cold dead hand.

      My feelings abt marriage are now different. I no longer believe in love conquers all. I don't want new rings or to renew our vows because he meant it the first time he said it but still had 2 physical affairs & who knows how many emotional ones. I don't need symbols. I need a life full of honesty & free of bullshit.

      We were recently watching meet the parents & I balked at the end when Greg promises to the dad to be faithful to Pam. My husband said I was bitter. All I said was sure he thinks so now; that's what they all think.

      I am now cynical. Whether that changes remains to be seen.

      Sam

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    2. Me too. I don't wear my ring, and even when he offered to but a new one, I declined. I took it off immediately after Dday; it reminded me of all the vows he broke, the lies he told me. Until now, I can't bring myself to put them on (I am almost a year out), even when we are doing better. --- P

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    3. I had been in the habit of taking my rings off when I worked outside or painted, or did any kind of manual-type labor. I usually forgot to put them back on and didn't wear my rings as I guess I should have. After D-Day, I wore them religiously. Around our wedding remembrance day (I won't call it an anniversary), we picked out a ring guard for my engagement ring and had our rings cleaned and refurbished, and engraved. My rings are on almost all the time now- and I remember to put them back on when I take them off. I think those actions around our rings helped him realize that I was committed to him, and helped me heal a little bit.
      C.

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  30. A short time after finding out about the affair, the diamond fell out of my wedding band and was lost. Just a tad symbolic! Because my engagement ring and wedding band are soldered together, after a while (and ++++ mental chaos) it was just depressing looking at that “black hole” of a ring, so I took them off. It really meant a lot to do that. I wanted my husband to notice this gesture, say something, ask me to put them back on. It hurt that he didn’t. After I brought it up, he said it made him sad that he couldn’t afford to fix it. They stayed off for at least 6 months, but I thought about them a lot. I just didn’t feel ready. As shallow as it sounds, I got really pretty nails put on for Christmas and they just weren’t complete with a diamond, big gaping black hole or not, lol!) I’m still wearing the rings as I type this but I’m ambivalent about whether to keep them on or not. I might try to get them unsoldered and just wear the engagement ring. Maybe it will be a good omen for a return of happier times. I found pictures he took of my ring on his phone just before Christmas so at least he was thinking of repairs. I guess that’s something. I guess.

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  31. i can relate to how you feel. a wedding ring symbolizes the marriage vows...my rings are in the safe deposit box. after being married for over 24 years, my husband began a long term affair with his coworker for six years, and it would have continued even longer if i had not found out. its been over three years since D day...we are still together, going into our 34th year of marriage, and trying to recover from the aftermath of the affair...but the hurtful memories, and painful feelings of mistrust lingers. i wont wear my wedding rings that remind me of the past...he gave me a new ring, that symbolizes his promise to be faithful, the husband that he should have been before, now, and in the future. i don't think its silly...rings, vows, and our marriage just have more meaning to us, much more than how "little" it meant to our cheating spouse.

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  32. my wayward spouse of 32 years lost his wedding ring @ 6 months after Dday. He used to take it off when he saw the OW. It was meant to be that he lost that ring bc of the connection to his affair. The new ring is completely different & it is the ring to seal his faithfulness to our marriage. I rarely wear my original wedding band & engagement ring but do wear a cz rings that I love. Rings don't stop husbands from cheating nor do they stop whores from having affairs with them.

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  33. After taking it off and putting it back on again. I finally took it off several months ago. He had lost his after d-day too because he took his off when I took mine off.
    He did start wearing a different ring on his finger when I began wearing mine again--to show his intention of recommitting.
    But I finally decided that I didn't want to not wear the old rings (and his sub ring was one that his mom had made and I don't like that symbolism). I have never been one to put alot of meaning into rings--I only have an inexpensive gold band and no engagement ring--so taking them off was not terribly traumatic. But I told him when we have established a new marrige with a new foundation, we can make new rings. I want to have all the old rings, random bits of gold jewelry, and a few loose diamonds that he gave me before we got married (sort of like an engagement ring alternative) turned into new rings for both of us. In my heart, I have scrapped the marriage that we had before. Despite alot of love, we had alot of negative stuff, acting out, bad patterns and general unhealthiness. As we are working on removing all the bad juju while keeping the good stuff from our long history together and forging it into something new and more meaningful.

    -MBS

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  34. It is interesting reading these posts about the wedding rings. I hadn't even considered taking mine off. I guess I sort of had the opposite experience with rings. D day for me was 2 1/2 months after our 25th wedding anniversary, so he was still seeing the OW when we had our anniversary party celebration which over 150 people attended. A couple weeks before our party he gave me an anniversary ring. This ring helped me believe that he didn't intend to leave me. That she was just a whore he was sleeping with. Would he spend $2500 on an engagement ring for a woman he intended to leave for the OW? (I found out the price during my detective phase) It helped me believe him when he told me that he didn't stop loving me. Doesn't take away the pain of what he did to me but did help me feel a bit better. He didn't spend that kind of money on her.

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  35. After being married for 33 years I found my husband had two affairs with the same woman, an ex girlfriend. He also maintained sporadic contact with her unknown to me for 18 years in between the two affairs. When I found out I told him I could no longer wear my wedding ring and I replaced it with another ring I had to stop people asking questions. A year after this he bought me a beautiful diamond anniversary ring and a new wedding band. They are lovely but do not mean anything emotionally to me.

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    1. I am so sorry for all the unhappiness we all have gone through.I have still got my wedding ring on .We were married in 1967 and i cried my heart out that day at the alter.i was so happy and emotional that i was to be his wife.
      Who could have foreseen that i would cry again like i do.I could never remove my ring as it is a symbol of MY devotion and love too.he never wore one anyway.
      I wish us all the luck in the world to be happy again.

      Delete
  36. I found out 5-1/2 months ago that my husband had been cheating, a coworker, online chats and an emotional affair with another woman. He lost his (very good) job over the affair. We started therapy but stopped because we both felt the therapist wasn't right for us. He has repeatedly told me how sorry he is and how he will never do it again. There are no signs that he has resumed anything. it happened when we were apart for a few months because he relocated for the job while I stayed back to sell our house. He says he doesn't know why he did it but that he felt I didn't want to be with him any more. We had some damage to our house and I felt I needed to stay there to oversee some rather significant reconstruction. He has been mostly honest about details I've asked for, but sometimes tells me he was in a fog and doesn't remember every detail. I've told him he needs to understand why he did this in order to avoid doing it again, but he says he's learned his lesson big time and doesn't want to dig around in his psyche to find out the root cause. Incidentally, he cheated on his late wife, one fast affair and one that lasted 3 years until he moved out of state. I am struggling with so many of the same issues and feelings as so many other women on this blog. I'm unsure about whether I should push going to another therapist to get him to do the work. Does he need to do more work? I feel he is sincere in his apologies and really understands what he's done to me, but I'm unsure if this is enough.
    Thank you so much for this outlet, I've only told my sister and one friend, but they haven't been through this, so it's hard for them to understand.

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    1. Sweetheart, I ache for you. He's cheated on his wife, twice, and now on you. What would you tell your sister if she was going through this? Would you think it was okay that her husband didn't want to "delve into his psyche" to find out why he kept cheating even when the cost to him was so high?
      I get that some people just don't see the merit in therapy -- they're convinced that they know better than some "head doctor". Why then...three times cheating? Why didn't he learn his lesson the first time? Or the second? What makes this time the charm?
      There's no magic formula for successful reconciliation. Some couples manage to get through it without counselling. Others take years. And others, of course, go to counselling and it doesn't work -- he cheats again, or they just can't mend all the broken places. But one consistent marker of successful reconciliation is when the cheater takes the time and energy to figure out what allowed him to cheat -- what stories was he telling himself that made it okay for him to betray the person he promised to honour. Unless there's that sort of insight -- and ability to recognize when he's going down that path again -- the possibility that he cheats again becomes more likely. Otherwise, he's focussed only on the consequences and not the motivation.
      You can't force him to go to therapy alone, though I would find a couples counsellor that felt like a better fit (I'm curious -- why didn't this one feel right?) At the very least, it will help you learn to communicate better as you move forward.

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  37. It's been 5 -1/2 months since my world fell apart. My husband of 7 years had an affair with a coworker, cheated online with numerous women and had an emotional affair (no sex) with another woman, all in the space of about 11 months. I found out when the coworker went to his employers and he lost his great job. Everything had seemed alright with our marriage, until he moved to another state for the job while I stayed back to get our house ready to sell. We had just discovered some fairly major water damage and rather than move with him into a tiny one bedroom rental, I felt I needed to stay back to oversee the reconstruction. I also told him I didn't want to move into a tiny apartment for a long time, but he wouldn't nail down what our living arrangements would be, and we couldn't have our dog in the apartment either. I guess we weren't communicating well, because when he finally made me understand our marriage was in jeopardy he was already involved although hadn't had sex with the OW yet. I finished up our repairs, packed up my personal belongings and moved in with him as soon as I could get there. In spite of that and my efforts to atone for making him feel I didn't want him any more, he went ahead and escalated the affair just a month after I moved. (But I did everything that you asked, why did you go ahead and screw her anyway!?) Since everything fell apart, he has told me how sorry he is, over and over again. He is trying to atone and seems sincere. We tried therapy but neither of us was comfortable with the therapist, so we decided to try on our own.
    My question is this, he says he lost his way and has learned his lesson. He's answered most of my questions but says he was in a fog and doesn't remember some details. He doesn't want to dig into why he did this with another therapist, although if I push, I believe he would go to therapy. Does he have more work to do? Also, he cheated twice on his late wife, one affair which was short, the other was 3 years and only ended because he moved out of state. I am suffering through so many of the same issues and feelings of the other women on this blog, and I am lost and feeling so alone.

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    1. I went through the same thing...I started to realize we weren't connecting anymore and tried to get us back on track, setting up date night, walks, special alone time... so why then, if I was giving him what he said he needed, did he pursue a relationship with the OW? I'm almost 2 years out from D-day and still not any closer to the "better place" everyone speaks of. I'm so sorry you are going through this, that any of us are going through this...I'm honestly lost for words in regards to how many of us are on here. It's disgusting that cheating comes so easy to so many...does no-one ever care of the wake of disaster they are about to create? Sometimes all i can say is WTF??????????????

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    2. WTF indeed. I shake my head at the pain wrought by affairs. I honestly don't think most people have any idea how devastating they are.
      If it's been two years and you don't feel as if you're moving toward any sort of healing, then I think you need to reconsider what you're doing -- and what your spouse is doing.
      What is keeping you stuck? Do you see change in him? Do you feel any sort of love for him? Even when we can "forgive" our spouse's betrayal, some of us simply don't want to stay married to him. And that's perfectly legitimate. We get to decide what we do around this.
      If you're not in therapy, I think it might be smart to find someone to talk to about this. To process the anger and figure out what you want going forward. I certainly wasn't "healed" at two years...but I could see that things were, at least marginally, "better". But it takes a long time to get through this. Start by asking if you even want to rebuild your marriage. If not, it's time to separate. But if so, figure out what's not happening that needs to be.

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  38. As you can see here you definitely not alone. It would be great if we had a crystal ball. Unfortunately we have only our broken hearts to guide us. I would push the therapy and find someone who will help you both. I pushed therapy on my H (who is a man's man and cannot be bothered with therapy) and it was the best thing we did. I wouldn't let it go. He did this for a reason and he really needs to find out what it is so he does not repeat this behavior. Like you my H and I were not "connecting" well prior to "D" day. I had to admit to my part in our problems, but not in what he did. I think if you don't do the work, together, then how do you know you are past it. Emotions can guide us, but can also betray us when we want so badly to think it is ok. It won't be easy to hear or deal with, but if he's worth it, I highly recommend getting a good marriage counselor and putting in the time. Be strong and know that you are worth it. You can love him and yourself. I remind myself that everyday.

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    1. Thank you for the support. I realized something this morning. H is dealing with this as if it's my problem with him, not our problem together or even his problem. Oh, he listens and answers well, but he isn't proactive in doing the work, just passive. Yes, we need to get back into therapy, if only to teach him how to be a true partner in our marriage.

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    2. Amen to that! I wrote (above) before I saw this response and Anonymous's great response to you. You're wise to notice that he's focussing on this as if it's your problem to get over, not his problem to understand why/how he did it. Keep us posted.

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    3. I'm going to start posting as Gigi from now on. Thanks Elle for helping clarify my thoughts. His first wife never caught him cheating which is why he thought he could get away with it with me. I think he's got an idea that if he stays away from trigger situations he can avoid it in the future, but I believe it's like booze to an alcoholic, it's everywhere, so he needs to be able to recognize it and make the right choices. Re the therapist, we started to notice that she couldn't keep our information straight, even forgot H's name after we'd seen her for 5 sessions. I also felt she had developed her own agenda that wasn't helping us, although perhaps she felt I wasn't holding him as accountable as I should. Maybe she was right about that. I think it will be good for me to talk that out with a therapist, as I feel very confused. After reading so many experiences here, I wonder if I'm being naive and gullible. For instance, I haven't done anything about the two women from his first marriage, although one knows that I now know about her. He is still friends with them on social media etc. I ve decided to insist that he inform the other one too, and that he delete all their contact info from his records. Will keep you posted .

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    4. Absolutely. Any women who have made it clear that they will cross that line with him should be off-limits. He clearly has boundary issues of his own. And I think you're right re. his thinking that he can avoid situations. They are everywhere -- work, social life, online. He needs to be able to recognize what gets triggered in him. Is it the excitement? Flattery? Does he need to be noticed? What does cheating give him that he doesn't yet understand that he lacks? Once all of us can recognize that we're heading down that path -- looking forward to seeing someone, talking with someone instead of our spouse about an issue that's bothering us -- then it's much easier to sense the threat to our marriage and steer clear of it. We're human beings. We're going to be attracted to many people. But it's acknowledging that and being really REALLY clear about boundaries so that nobody gets the wrong idea.
      As for your therapist -- got the name wrong? Okay, that's pretty bad. But I do suspect she was right re. his accountability. He needs to be completely transparent to you and willing to give you access to everything, delete accounts if necessary, etc. That's no guarantee, but his willingness to do that is generally a good sign.

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  39. My H cheated on his late wife 15 yrs ago, with a woman he's still friends with and whom I've met a couple times with him. He told me about it when he disclosed his recent affairs and I insisted that he message her to tell her that I know about them. Her response was fear that if I told her husband, he would leave. I haven't done that. I know many here advocate telling the OW's spouse, and I agree, but should I tell her husband? Technically, although I regard her as a potential threat to our marriage and have told my H he can't have contact any more, the affair wasn't during my marriage. Comments?

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    1. H'mmm...this is a tough one. On the one hand, I'd be inclined to just stay out of it. I think this is a case of keeping your side of the street clean and letting others worry about their side of the street. I think you're smart to insist that your husband have no contact. And it's interesting that she believes her husband would leave her. Kinda sad, actually. I always think when there's that kind of secret in a marriage, it's not a very deep marriage.
      Curious what others think.

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    2. Have thought about this some more and examined ALL my motives. Decided the bad karma isn't what I want and if I tell him without clear motive on my part, it will only come back to bite ME in the ass. She's his problem now.

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    3. Yeah, I'd do the same. Focus on yourself and your own healing. His problem indeed.

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  40. Ok I rarely post in this area because Elle is just a goddess of wisdom for those who are stuck, but all I will say is, as I said on another post "my heartbreak, my rules". We all have boundaries we all have needs the NUMBER 2 thing on my list after "no contact" starting NOW (the day I found out) was THERAPY. If he didn't go. He was getting kicked out. Life is hard enough. We each have some sort of difficult journey that we have often planned for, but when life, or you wayward husband throws THIS is your path...let me ask, WHO knows how to deal with this? ME? No. HIM? Obviously not. I felt needy, clingy, paranoid, depressed, pissed, sad, humiliated, betrayed, ashamed, unsexy, ugly, old, jealous, enraged...things I DO NOT feel in my daily life. And all these emotions were surfaced on ONE day. There was no way to tackle this alone, there was so way to tackle this even with my remorseful husband, I had no idea what were the "correct" feeling to have, or the "correct" actions to take. please, I am begging the woman married to the teacher..GO to counseling and make it a PRIORITY that your husband do the same, how dare he say your BORE him. Many things pissed me off about your husband, but that sent me over the edge. He needs help. And if he won't get it, you need help more than you even know. Ladies. We are an incredible resourse over here, and I would not have survived without this space, but honest not God, we CANNOT do all the work ourselves. Our spouses have GOT to do their part. They had time for a freeking OW, and now with all their free time, they HAVE time to go to therapy. No excuses. And again, even if they don't go. We. MUST

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  41. Your husband sounds like a busy boy with way too much going on except YOU. Social media contact, previous affairs on-line stuff, still "friend with previous wife, emotional no sex encounters, he is passive with you, but doesn't like therapy too? These are your words not mine. Add it all up and decide if he is what you want. He is going to very hard to keep track of because he is so busy with so many avenues he has already went down that all lead to affairs. He blames it on triggers not his fault? These are all of your words. I would consider this guy high risk unless as Steam says he gets therapy. Ask yourself is he just biding time getting by until he sees another trigger? He needs therapy bad.

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  42. Hello all,

    I just started reading your blog after having my own DDay. I have been married for three years to a man that I thought was mature and grounded. I didn't have any signs that we had any problems with our relationship. He is not from the US and I met him abroad and we moved to the US shortly after getting married. I am the main breadwinner for us. He has always expressed that he wants children, multiple if possible, and I have never been as enthusiastic as he is. Once I felt well established at home we tried to get pregnant and I am now 10 weeks.

    A week ago I found a strange charge on our credit card and long story short, it turned out to be a dating site. I looked at his email (never done that before) and found other ads he put for himself seeking a "no strings attached" type of relationship, dating back to August at least.

    I was devastated of course and I confronted him. I told him I was seriously considering terminating this pregnancy and he needed to find another place to live. He understands (after talking to a mutual friend that survived infidelity) that he needs to be able to explain this to himself before all and has already seen a therapist last week. I also separately saw a therapist that specializes in deciding whether to keep a baby or not. I can't imagine having this baby by myself, even logistically with my work schedule, and yet I can't imagine spending my whole pregnancy in couples counseling with him figuring out what his freaking problem is. What should I do when I can't imagine any of my future paths?

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    1. Yikes...it's horrible to try and determine a path through this but even harder when there's a clock ticking.
      I think having a baby is tough at the best of times. But I also think that, for me, it was worth every sleepless night, lost career opportunity and stretch mark. It's such a personal decision that I honestly don't think any of us here can offer up anything to help you decide. It all comes down to...do you want to be a mother right now or not? If you do, then I would spend the next few months getting a support system in place to help you through. If not, then you know what the next step is. Either way, your decision is going to have big impact on your relationship so it needs to be a decision that is made because it's absolutely the right thing for you. It can't, of course, be a way of hurting him further or punishing the universe of any of that stuff -- which I'm sure your therapist is helping you through.
      Keep us posted. We might have answers...but we're great at providing support whichever route you go.

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  43. Thanks Elle. That is exactly what my therapist said - I have to decide if I want to have a baby right now, on my own.

    I don't feel hate or vengeance towards him, I feel sorry for him and even sorrier for myself that I am in this awful situation. If I was not pregnant I would not even be entertaining any ideas of getting back together in the near future, I would make a clean break for it and I would tell him to call me when he thinks he knows why he did this.

    I have a great support system in my parents who were already going to help out with the baby some days during week, but my husband was going to take the rest of that load and I don't feel like I can give my parents a baby for 50 hours a week or have my husband as some kind of live-out babysitter.

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    1. All children should be wanted. Parenting is a tough slog no matter how you look at it. Not an easy decision for you, I know.

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    2. I don't know if this will help but i want to share my experience.
      The fall before d-day, I found out that I was pregnant with what would have been a 3rd child. I had been having real fantasies about a 3rd child but I realized that my husband and i were in no financial shape to take on another person's life. Having our first 2 was a huge stretch.
      But most importantly, he was emotionally absent, himself like a 3rd child, and I knew he would not be there for me (making it easy to be seduced by a child-like woman). I also recognized that I felt my professional life taking off and the burdens of raising small children lifting. Though I loved being mom and would never trade any of it, I was tasting freedom to live more for myself. I was over the moon with the 2 I had. So I terminated. I was clear that I was making the decision for me. What did I want? That was the choice I made. And I am so glad I did that.
      It was hard, and i mourned what might have been. I briefly had fantasies of my husband bursting in the room and stopping the procedure. He didn't really want to terminate (he was in fantasy land of having a great big family, but oblivious to how much work I was putting in.) But in the end I knew the person he was couldn't be there for me and my plate was full. It wasn't without ambivalence but I am glad I put myself first. I knew that I had no more to give for another person. I would end up losing myself if I did.

      Fast forward to over 2 years laters and my recovering husband is now one who is working to be more mature, grounded,and a real partner, one who may have been able to step it up for a third child--though I am not sure. But I still made the right decision for me that was right for me then and has worked out for me now. Sometimes I feel jealous about others who have more, but I have barely regretted the decision. I know that it was one I made for myself and my own interests.
      My sister on the other hand, terminated a pregnancy that she wanted because her partner wanted her to and she was afraid he would leave her. Her heart broke. She ended up getting pregnant again and keeping it, choosing to be a "mostly" single mom--her BF loves their child and gets to be daddy when he feels like it (don't get me started). But she is happy. She wanted to be a mom. She chose herself and found the internal and external resources to make it work.
      I urge you to make one for your own interests. Don't chose from fear or hurt. What do you want? The future may seem dire now but either way you will make it work. Being a parent is never a perfect endeavor. If you chose to be a parent, remember to listen to your needs. If you chose to work it out with him, remember to listen to your needs. If you chose healing for yourself, listen to your needs.

      MBS

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    3. Thanks, MBS, sorry it's taken me so long to respond. In the end, after help from a therapist and lots of reflection, I've decided to terminate the pregnancy and will do so this week.

      It is a very sad decision but I know within myself that it's the right one. As you've suggested, I had to look into myself and separate this situation from the marriage mess and think about whether I wanted to be a mom, in this moment.

      I think the attempted affair was SO out of the blue for me, I thought our marriage was absolutely fine. Obviously, otherwise I wouldn't have been trying to get pregnant. There were no signs of anything wrong and I still don't understand what led my husband to do this. So it's all on so much shaky ground right now, I am having to consider basically having this child on my own. Though my husband was very intent on having children and I think that he would be here for whatever I needed, but I can't have him as my partner.

      I only considered getting pregnant because I thought I had a stable, mature partner, a good job that I could manage a maternity leave at, a house that would work, etc. etc. And the biggest piece of that, the stable partner to manage all this while I am at work 50 hours a week, is gone. Even though he wants to be there, it's impossible for me to have him there. I respect myself too much. I can't imagine bringing an innocent child into a situation where at not even a complete first trimester of pregnancy, its parents are already split up in a royal mess of a situation. It's all so opposite of what I wanted.

      I know many people have children on their own because they have their heart set on doing so, but that was never me. I only wanted to do this because of the partner I had, and now that I don't have that and don't know if I ever will with that person, I have to make this decision for now. I am very sad about it but I believe I will also feel relieved.

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  44. This is heavy but I hope some of you can find some peace with these thoughts:

    http://www.nichigham.com/40-surprising-truths-about-suffering-by-jeff-foster/

    My favorite:
    “All suffering contains a deeper Invitation – to know and be what you are, the space for the pain, the space for the heartbreak, fear and confusion, instead of the victim. To be the capacity for the moment, instead of the captive. This is not passivity or ‘giving up’, but creative emergence, and alignment with all the intelligence of a universe.”

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  45. Hello,
    I'm so thankful I have found this site. I'm stuck. It has been 14 months since I found out about my husband's affair that he had for YEARS. I'm not sure how many but I know at lest 6. He is not about full disclosure. He is done being sorry. He is against going for counselling...He said it is over so he feels I need to move on. I find myself thinking about her with such anger and hate...that is not who I am.

    Back in July of 2013 he had quadruple bypass ...he'd tell me to leave the hospital because I was bothering him....so he could see her....she even sat in the family surgery room when he had the operation...the worst day of my life...I later found out who she was. Then I nursed him for six months (every now and again his friend would take him out for a "ride"- which was to her house. Then my dog died-my only joy . Then at work some one said my husband must have a common name because her friend was dating a guy with the same name. My husband. I sank to the depths of sorrow. Then I lost my job because the grant was not renewed. Now because I am not working I am the logical one to care for my alcoholic abusive father who now has Alzheimer's and not enough money for assisted living..
    I want so badly to write her a letter and just tell her she is a whore and I know who she is...it bothers me she walks away with the oh poor me attitude...I just want to tell her she is classless and vile and the thought of her makes me want to vomit..that every night she lays her head down she will be a whore. That I go to sleep a lady with class and morals. Would that be so wrong? I don't want an apology from her I want nothing I just want to tell her I know who she is- not miss innocent sweet human she runs around town like. Will this help me get unstuck...I cannot be more miserable.
    Thank you

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    1. It sounds like you're in an awful situation but it's not all that woman's fault - it sounds like your husband is the main problem. This woman isn't his only affair, so if it wasn't her it would probably be someone else. You should move on and get away from him if at all possible.

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    2. Oh sweetheart, you have WAY more to deal with than is even remotely fair. I'm so so sorry for all the pain and disappointment you're going through.
      Let's put the Other Woman aside for the moment because I honestly think she's simpy become the lightning bolt for all your rage and pain.
      Of course, you're angry. You've lost your beloved dog, your job, the marriage you thought you had and now you're expected to care for an abusive man who likely never cared particularly well for you. That's too much for anyone to deal with. On top of it, your husband is dictating the terms of your reconciliation. That is NOT acceptable. As one BWC member put it so beautifully "My heartbreak, my rules." YOU get to determine how your marriage moves forward, not him. If he won't agree, then I would strongly urge you to kick him to the couch, or right out the door.
      However, let's start at the easiest step. Just because you're the "logical" one to care for your father, doesn't mean you have to agree. If there are other siblings, then you can divide the work/time or, since looking after him means you can't be out job-hunting, you can ask to be paid something. Sure he's your dad...but he's a lot of WORK.
      I'm going to guess that makes you uncomfortable. 'Im going to guess that you're the kind of person who never asks for anything for herself. Who does what others want her to do. And who pours her huge heart into her dog because he/she is the only one who returns that massive love.
      Your dog loved you because you're lovable. Because you're worthy. Because you're a kind-hearted soul who doesn't deserve any of this pain. I want you to hang on to that knowledge.
      And then, I want you to find a counsellor who will help you shoulder the HUGE load you have right now. A place where you can put it down and sort through how to manage it. A place where you make yourself strong again and where you realize that YOU get to decide how you live your life. Not your jerk of a husband, not your cruel father, and now some nasty Other Woman who took your scraps.
      You can use this horrible pain to finally say "ENOUGH." And then rescue yourself. I promise you that you can do this. It will be the hardest things you've ever done. And it will be so worth it.
      We're here, sweetheart. We'll help you through. But find a real-life counsellor who can support you too. Your rage toward this woman is really about the pain of everything. She's nobody. It's you who needs your attention.
      (That said, it might feel better to write a letter to her. You don't need to mail it...but just get all your anger and pain and fear out. And then burn it.)

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  46. I am sooo stuck, I found out the week before Thanksgiving 10 years ago. It seems that I take 1 step forward and two steps back. For years we rocked on and for the most part they have been a good ten years. Then...I saw a message on his phone about a forgotten password for a yahoo email account . I didn't know about this secret email account. As you can imagine I was back in the moment 10 years ago and I felt so betrayed. He has since deleted the account but it doesn't matter, I've lost all trust AGAIN. He told me he opened the SECRET account for porn.

    It feels like I just can't get past it. I know it sounds so trivial but it doesn't feel that way to me. From that moment to now he is very transparent, he hands me his phone when he gets home, I have access to his gmail account anytime I feel the need to look but...none of that matters because for all I know he has multiple accounts.

    I just want to feel normal!!! I don't want to walk around like this pathetic person that is always waiting for the next bomb to drop.

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    1. I suspect you're experiencing post-trauma, which is pretty common after betrayal. That feeling of foreboding, of just waiting for more pain, of not trusting. I would strongly urge you to find a counsellor who can help you through this.
      In the meantime, your husband is playing with fire. If you're interested in rebuilding a marriage with him, you need access to EVERYTHING. And there need to be consequences for "secret" accounts/lies/whatever.
      He should also be in counselling. Why, after betraying you once, is he still sneaking around? What does he get from doing this? Is he willing to lose his marriage over it?
      He either wants this marriage, in which case he'll follow your rules for reconciliation, or he doesn't. You can't control that. But get yourself help for post-trauma, and then determine what you need from him to begin the long road to feeling emotionally safe again.

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    2. Thank you for your reply.

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  47. This is a test, please let me know if this is posted.

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  48. Ok here is an unstuck story that happened this week. I had a trigger which I handled ok but then I had a nightmare about the OW. I woke my husband up at 2am and said I'm having a hard time. It went from that to a verbal tirade about every single resentment I ever had in our marriage from day one. I asked him sure he had an affair but how in the hell did he think I turned into a fat miserable monster? Then I bagan to tell him. He didn't help me with three small kids, he never vacuumed, did dishes, rough in bed, ignored me, didn't care about my safety, wouldn't fold clothes, didn't listen when I talked this went on for two hours. Ok so now he says I didn't really realize how much of an asshole he was and he didn't know I thought all those things. He said he felt like a failure. I said you were in our marriage. How in the hell did you think I turned into an angry, controlling, critical bitch that wanted nothing to do with you? He really understood. The next day he was devastated cried twice that day. He really didn't know and I played the martyred who picked up his slack. I didn't expect or ask anything from him. So now the next day we sat down and he told me his resentments and I went into more detail with mine. He said when you wanted to go back to school I made financial adjustments so you could. I said what else did you do? What did you do for me to help me so I could go back to school? It dawned on him he didn't do anything else to lighten my load. I told him he was rough in bed, he thought I had been with several men and was experienced. I said I was 25 years old when we got married I hadn't had that many sexual encounters. He got it. He finally got why I ended up being so bitter, angry and didn't care about my looks or him.

    I think I held all that restment in and it was intertwined with his affair. I couldn't get unstuck for one until I got unstuck from both. He actually got it and felt very bad the way he acted and failed as a husband and partner. . I felt free from carrying all the resentment around for years. It took him a week and two therapy sessions to process it all. But since then I have been unstuck and it feels good. I hope it lasts for awhile. He understood he had been an ass and really felt bad about it all. I finally understood all his resentments and yes he was right too. It takes time to unravel messes. The is the first week I felt so good in a very long time.

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    1. Lynn, so happy to hear this!

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    2. Lynn,
      Hallelujah to you for FINALLY letting down that load you've been carrying around. THIS is the silver lining that sometimes comes with affairs. With everything on the line, we finally stop holding back. We finally become honest with ourselves and with our spouses. And, often, we can finally hear each other.
      It sounds as if he really heard you and that is monumental in itself. Just being HEARD is huge. It's validating.
      Keep in mind, you may need to remind him again if he's slipping back into old patterns. But you likely won't need to scream it. You'll be able to just point it out to him.
      It's also amazing that you can see he has his own resentments that don't justify an affair but nonetheless need addressing.
      Yay for you, Lynn.

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  49. Dear Elle and all the spouses on here,
    I have read and re-read this blog since finding it about two weeks ago. My emotions echo so many of what has already been said. The hurt, confusion, and despair are like nothing I could have fathomed. Thank you all for making me feel less alone and even hopeful, sometimes.
    Right now we are 2.5 months post d-day. Though my after D-day story of heartache is very similar, our situation is a bit different, at least from what I have been able to read through. My husband is an active duty military member and was away on a ship for a 6 month deployment ... I have an 18month old daughter and have recently had a 3month old baby boy. Very suddenly, my husband began to detach himself from me – I could almost instantly tell that something was “wrong” even with his emails and the short amount of time we had on the phone. I am not sure if it would constitute its own d-day, but he came out and told me, “I have been talking with someone who I feel like I could tell anything to and she wouldn’t judge me.” I knew things were bad, but nowhere near as bad as they actually were. He came home for the birth of our son for 5 days and acted very, very distant and sad. Then, two and a half months ago – at my 6 week checkup, he phones me saying he is coming home because he has been caught writing a love note to the OW. This is what I am using as my official d-day because he came completely clean with what was really going on – she was in fact on the ship with him the whole time, it was extremely physical and he told me he was in love with her.
    Upon his return – A LOT had changed within our household. We had a new baby, a very young daughter and we were dealing with the normal “my husband is home from deployment and is in the way” on top of the crazy emotions of finding out about the affair. What the military does differently though is that they issued a military protective order for both my husband and the OW – they were, by law, not allowed to contact each other. His homecoming was horrible, but I somehow thought that a 30 day trial period for him – WITH our children and WITHOUT any contact would clear his head a bit. From that day he has had zero contact with the OW – with and without the help of the protective order.
    Herein lays my present situation – in summary, I feel more lost now than I did when he came home… those 30 days I watched my once loving, strong husband turn into a shell of a man who was lost without the OW. He told me many hurtful things about our marriage, about myself and about his love for the OW. From the readings I had done, it didn’t seem like “love” but that utter infatuation … though it hurt to hear, none the less.
    I could go on forever, but to make a very long story short – he has COMPLETELY woken up and wants to keep his family whole. Though he doesn’t deny his feelings for the OW, he knows it’s “wrong” to act on them and tells me he wants me and our children – period. I just don’t know if I can accept what he has SAID to me … obviously the betrayal cuts deeply, but how he described her to me, all of it seemed like he was intentionally hurting me even more.
    Has anyone else had to watch their husband pine over the OW? Feel desperation without her? Have to hear about how he loves her faults? Even though he is very sorry for hurting me and has actually cried more in 2 months than I have seen him cry in 12 years, combined – I cannot say he is truly remorseful or even regretful over his affair. I think he falls into the category of “fond of his affair.” He wants to make things right … I am just questioning his emotional capacity to do so.
    I look forward to hearing your thoughts, Elle. I feel lost, anxious and scared – many of the same emotions I’ve read about on here. I know I am not alone …

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    1. Oh sweetie, my heart is breaking for you. That must have been absolute and total hell. A new baby, a toddler (adjusting herself to a new interloper), your husband home (with toddler and you and adjusting to THAT). And then D-Day in the midst of it all. My god, what a perfect storm.
      Let me start by asking what you're doing for YOU right now. What support do you have to help you with a) a new baby and b) the maelstrom of emotions surrounding betrayal? If you don't have a therapist (and a reliable babysitter), please find one. You need someone to support you through this. Of course, you're lost, anxious and scared.
      I'm not going to be much help re. whether your husband has the emotional capacity to move forward. I do know, thanks to a friend whose husband is military (as well as a LOT of letters from military wives) that being away from home in a high-stress environment is virtually a breeding ground for affairs.
      That 30-day detox likely got your husband through the "fog" and he can see now exactly what he stands to lose. And he might never be able to see that his affair partner was toxic. She was in the same situation as he was. New surroundings and plenty of adrenaline. Just add sex and stir.
      The thing with affairs is that they can feel great. They're like falling in love again. Who wouldn't like that? Who wouldn't remember that fondly? But what he needs to understand is the PRICE his family paid for that. And, frankly, the price he paid too -- to his self-respect, his sense of integrity and decency. He's revealed himself to be deceitful. Yuck.
      With everything you have on your plate -- just the logistics of dealing with a newborn and a young child -- I think your focus needs to be on your own healing. Put aside, for now, what you want re. your marriage. Make it clear to your husband that he needs therapy to get his own head sorted out. But spend time with a therapist of your own to help you get through the pain of what he's told you. What's "true" in the midst of a full-blown affair isn't "true" in the larger scheme of things.
      You are most definitely not alone. Come here as often as you can and post when you want.
      There is absolutely no right or wrong way through this (unless it involves anything that might lead straight to jail). You get to decide what you want. But for now, give yourself permission to just grieve through the pain and heal your poor battered heart.

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    2. Elle,

      As usual your reply is honest, truthful and almost set my mind at ease. Thank you.

      I had a very rough weekend - had an intense outbreak that resulted in me "convincing" him to get us (the children and me) back home, through a letter to his commanding officer. I immediately regretted making him do this, as he was trying to walk me off the ledge, but now I believe I have "made things worse." The day to day is almost unbearable - I don't want him to think things are "fixed" but I want to move forward. It seems so hopeless.

      In reaction to my outburst, he has completely gone back into his shell. He is being cold, heartless and telling me all the reasons I was using were the truth ... when really, I believe I have these insane outburst to evoke a deep emotion in him - for him to SHOW me how much le loves and wants ME. It's a vicious cycle that I feel trapped in ...

      I feel like we are back to square 1 with him "hating the drama" and me begging for emotion and a way forward. . .

      Thank you for your help, always,
      Abi

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    3. Abi,
      His ability to compartmentalize his emotion is likely what makes him a good military employee. It's what makes him able to function when faced with overwhelming emotion. But it's what perhaps makes him unable to just "be" with you when you're in pain and to show his compassion. Mostly what we need when we're in our insane moments is someone to share in that pain, to acknowledge that it's hell, to trust that we'll get through it.
      Whether or not you've "made things worse", you're simply trying desperately to have your pain acknowledged and validated. We don't always do that in mature, healthy ways, especially if our history has been being shut down or accused of being too emotional.
      If you feel regret, tell him that. Without letting him off the hook for his own role in this, you can own your part in this latest chapter. And then, perhaps, you can brainstorm how to move forward from where you are.
      In the meantime, as agonizing as it is, perhaps don't expect him to be someone he's not right now. Expressing difficult emotions -- fear and sadness, guilt and shame -- is probably not his strong suit. It's perhaps what got him into this situation.
      Hang in there, Abi. Don't beat yourself up. Model the behaviour you want to see. Accountability. Openness. Compassion.

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    4. You are so right, Elle. I need to also display accountability, openness and compassion ... without constantly beating him up. He almost cannot express those emotions - fear, sadness, guilt and shame. Is that fair, though? Should I be driving this recovery process? I have always been the one "pushing for more" in our relationship, but I simply don't have it to give and it infuriates me and makes me want OUT. Should I allow his continued soul searching while I heal myself, or do we try and reconcile, together? Maybe it's not possible right now, like you said.

      We go to our first counseling session together this week. It makes my stomach hurt to think about going through this ... I am scared for what is going to come of it.

      Thank you for being here and for having this page.
      Abi

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    5. Abi,
      Elle makes a good point about the military encouraging men to compartmentalize their emotions. When my husband was an AF pilot, he would fly three week missions and could not tell me where or what he was doing cause it was classified. But whether your husband is enlisted or an officer, there are supports you can tap into from what I remember. And also the feeling of being in a group of transplants from so many people all over, you have a support group of other young wives if you can reach out. There isn't anything to be ashamed of cause it's such an old story especially given the climate of the military. And yes, my husband did regard his OW as special until she became a tattle tale and dumped all the souvenirs on our doorstep. Hopefully your husband's OW will do something stupid so he gets the picture. Nice women do not get involved with married men especially with young kids. That woman is seriously flawed and your husband is so lucky you're letting him stay around to watch his kids grow up. Good grief, does he think he's still in high school?!

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    6. Pilots Wife,

      My mom describes the entire situation as "middle school drama." Obviously, that doesn't touch the hurt and anger I feel, but sometimes I have to wonder ... who does he really think she is?

      As for the support groups - we are working through a military provided counselor so I hope that will help us. My husband is an officer, which makes the entire situation even worse in terms of his career and our livelihood. Heartbreaking that he was willing to throw away 10+ years in the military for this "special bond that he had never felt before." . . .

      Thank you for your encouragement - the OW has since claimed she has mental disorders ... this was her SECOND affair on the ship with a married man. She is also a very, very accomplished woman academically ... really makes you wonder who is out there.

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    7. Abi,

      My husband was an officer too and there is that " you're special" mentality fed to them. When my husband was a young airline captain, the two flight attendants that stroked his ego ( and that wasn't all) were part of the women who loved the man in uniform, the guy in charge. There are some women maybe those mean girls from HS who think it is a game to go after another guy who is taken. Superior women academic or not, beautiful or not, who maybe at some level or still playing the hs games. Please don't think she is superior in anyway. Clearly she isn't . Poaching someone else's mate is beyond evil. You have a baby and a toddler and the focus should be on them. Your husband has been very very selfish. These days will be missed when he is 65 and he'll wonder why he threw them away. At this point in our lives, my husband says he would like to look back & be proud of his life but he can't. There is this black memory. You can ignore it for awhile but we both feel it beneath the surface when we look at the pictures of our young kids. So much energy was wasted on the affairs, the women who meant nothing, but we both learned a lot. I wish you healing and enough energy to enjoy the beautiful days of your children. Believe me, you'll want them back when you're 65 like me.

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    8. Abi,

      If you can manage any time at all to read, I would recommend Frank Pittman's Private Lies. Given you have a baby and toddler, that might seem insane to suggest but there are some great ways to understand what has happened. I reread this several times and think more than anything else it helped me keep my sanity. Make sure your husband understands clearly that he can't live at home and date. You are not his mother! And I would make plans to become as independent as possible. A job, a degree, making sure you know where your money is and being tested for the STD. Oh, I know it's over but it's good to have plan B just incase he decides to decamp again. I kept 2 suitcases in th closet for a year. One for me and one for the kids and my husband was well aware of them. The more independent I becam, the stronger I felt, and the more he respected me for it. Do not beg your husband to stay, to get over her, just act like you're making a life for yourself and th kids. Wishing you sleep and peaceful thoughts.

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    9. Abi,
      Pilot's wife has some good advice. And no, you should not be driving his recovery process. Your job is to focus on what you need right and to care for your children. The more you can focus on right now (and do your best to avoid trying to predict what will happen, what should happen, what might happen), the better. You're on a roller coaster right now. Give yourself time to simply stabilize and then you're better able to figure out what you want...and better able to discern whether rebuilding a marriage is even an option.
      I too wish you peace. You'll get there.

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    10. I feel like the roller coaster is spinning out of control ... I asked him last night to get a hotel room, despite how hard it is with two children in the evenings. I needed some peace of mind and having him there, being wishy-washy was literally driving me crazy.

      I have pushed and pushed and pushed when he asked for some space (figuratively, not literally) and he has really changed his tune, which is so hard to deal with. Recovering from this with a supportive, strong husband is one thing ... but with a wishy-washy, shoulder-shrugging one, it has made me crazy.

      So I am determined to focus on the now - the RIGHT now - putting one foot in front of the other and trying not to think big picture. It's been a hellacious 4 days - some of the worst since D-day.

      And Steam - I am there with the resume, degree, etc. Not quite ready to be away from my children full time, but am preparing myself for that scenario, should it arise.

      Thank you all so much,
      Abi

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    11. Abi,

      As awful as it is and I can't imagine going thru it with a baby and toddler, I think you did the right thing in telling your husband to get a room if that's what you needed to keep your head together. As a military wife, you are used to being the single mom but it sucks at the ages your kids are. Mine were three and eight and I was plenty use to taking care of things by myself. The horrible situation of watching your husband play Eenie meanie miney moe is the act of a SOB. Sorry. I have no patience for men in the affair fog when they can't seem to get their head together. Like I said before, read a few pgs of Private Lies if you can manage it. Perhaps the reality is that your husband does need to mourn the fantasy cause that certainly is what it is. Affairs & marriage are like apples and oranges. And babies and toddlers do not allow for fantasy. This is their time to be the center of the world and they need one parent to be grown up. Unfortunately that has fallen on you. Your husband can join his family if you decide to let him but forcing him to on some timetable probably won't work. Again, counseling can work but it takes time and you with two young kids are short on it. Wishing you the best possible outcome for you and your babies.

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    12. Pilot's Wife,
      Thank you so much for opening up and understanding where I am coming from. I could actually feel myself "losing" it and I just couldn't afford the time and energy with him there. Because he has retreated inward, there is absolutely no forward progress with any talks right now, so I just didn't need him home.

      I will certainly try to read Private Lies -- I feel like I am swimming in readings these days ... this blog is the only place that makes me feel normal and talks about my husband's perspective, too. He is certainly in the affair fog and it makes me sick too -- it actually causes me to attack him, which I do not need to be doing, either.

      We have our first counseling session tomorrow ... we need a fresh set of eyes to shed some light on what we are going through. Here's to hoping we can work through this.

      Best,
      Abi

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    13. Abi,

      You're carrying a tsunami load of pain. I hope you have some support somewhere to get a break from daily life so you can just think, collapse on the couch, whatever. But maybe having your babies helps keep you in the present. When I was going thru it, I told my husband I didn't have time to date. Let's hope your husband is going cold turkey from the affair partner. Shame on him & shame on her when there are such young kids involved! Constant contact just keeps the addiction going so a cold case of reality maybe like his taking care of the kids might help turn his head around??? Wishing you some decent sleep.

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  50. I feel so stuck right now. I'm coming up on the one year anniversary of my DDay. My husband of fifteen years, while he has been very supportive and understanding through all of this has continued to lied to me about small things. Things that really shouldn't matter but do to me because I think, if he's going to lie to me about something so small, what else is he lying about? And then I go into paranoid mode and search the house, the vehicle, his phone, etc. only to find nothing, and then I feel stupid. A week ago I told him that I wanted to separate, and he moved all of his things into the basement. But it's not a true separation. He comes to me at night so that he can hold me while we fall asleep and I find myself going to him, just to be near him. I'm not comfortable being intimate with him and haven't for a long time. He doesn't pressure me for anything and I know that he's not with anyone else. I have a great deal of fear when I think about making a future with him. I had thought that by separating it would give us both a chance to figure out what we really want but we both seem to be coming up with reasons to spend time together. I just feel so confused. I spend a lot of my energy suppressing my emotions because they all seem to be tied together and I can't experience love or passion without have anger and frustration and fear fall into the mix, and I end up crying when I should be happy. I feel like I need to make a decision but being without him feels wrong and being with him doesn't feel right.

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    1. I think your husband's continued dishonesty -- even white lies -- is a crucial issue. It's evidence that you can't believe him. That he doesn't quite understand just how important honesty is for any relationship. Has he sought any therapy to help him understand why he cheated? To help him recognize his pattern of lying? It's likely been a way of avoiding uncomfortable situations -- such as being clear about his wants/needs, or having trouble dealing with others' anger/frustration with him. It becomes easier to just lie to get around those things. But it undermines all relationships when someone can't be honest.
      What's more, your recognition that your emotions are all tangled up is pretty "normal" under the circumstances. You've got a lot to feel sad about. But there's also the comfort of being held. When the person we trust and love is responsible for the pain we're in, it does get all muddled.
      I think your husband should be in therapy, and I suspect couples counselling would be a good idea for both of you. I've heard occasionally of couples getting through this without a good counsellor but it happens rarely...and I think even then, it would have happened more quickly with counselling. Even if you ultimately decide to separate, it will be with a clearer head.

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  51. My husband is retired military officer. It took me awhile to realize 1. You only tell the troops what they need to know. Which meant to me not the entire story and his omissions of information. 2. Compartmentalized means you don't show emotion and two worlds don't collide. 3. You only plan ahead what you can have contingency'so plans which means you don't look down the road so far for which there are no answers so no spontaneity and no plans are made that involve a long time line. 4. Stay an observer so there are no emotions involved in decisions this means participants get too involved and can get hurt. All this military training bled into our relationship. I am also into the cycle of hurt, then poke at him until he hurts like me, tear him down to nothing like I feel. I'm trying my best this week not to go there. I have been doing this every week for the last year. I can't stop.

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    1. Lynn - how does your husband respond? Mine has gone into shut down mode and is uttering things like, "I can't go on like this" which makes me VERY despondent and makes me act crazy ...

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  52. I hope this makes sense and it's not easy. First for him to wake up is progress. Second for him to cry is huge. My husband did the same thing. How he sees things now will change in in the upcoming months. It is like they try to justify the affair at first by what they say. But later they will see the real truth about what happened and why. It takes awhile because of their leadership military training. Get counseling for him. He has to understand how his military mind set does not work in a relationship. He has to see how he thinks about his reactions in a military situation are wrong in a relationship. Here is the hard part. And believe me I had to learn how to do this. Whenever my husband said anything about our relationship, answer questions, or our marriage, I went into attack mode so he went into military mode. What I learned to do was when he opened up to me just a crack, just a little I kept my mouth shut and listened. I kept saying to myself just listen no matter how hard it hurts just listen. Sometimes I would be like a volcano inside. Once he feels like he is not going to be attacked everytime he will open up more. I didn't know this at the time but my husband was going through his own hell about what he did and why. In the military it is like a stop and then go relationship because he is gone. With therapy you can learn how to stay connected even though you are not together. You pick the military therapist someone who has experience don't let the military pick one for you. I'm telling you he has to realize that military training approach does not work in a connected relationship. if he never learns how to deal with conflict in a different way then it is going to be a real struggle and I'm talking a think twice about him. He needs counseling very bad that is least he can do if wants to hold on to you. This is so not about anything you did or didn't do right. Being a military wife is stressful enough but that life can also make staying in a connected marriage difficult. I'm sure you heard if the army wanted you to have a wife they would have issued you one- he is in that military macho role BS. My husband has opened up finally and I learned to listen but respond with honest comments in a calm manner. Somehow my husband realized I wasn' t a mission but a marriage. It took 13 months.

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    1. Not a mission but a marriage. Wow. Glad he finally got it...and not a moment too soon.

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  53. Another thought but the military has some down to earth chaplains which maybe an option.

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  54. I am not sure if it's possible to have "real" ah-ha moments, but after my Saturday night episode of bat-sh*t craziness, I think I have come to some pretty real conclusions.
    - I am tired of living with one foot out the door, constantly threatening my husband that we will leave him. I need to go all-in on this one and work to reconcile our marriage, while realizing he must show the same progress on his end.
    - I can absolutely push my husband too far in this process ... I recently read how Elle said I can make the rules about the OW (aka, ZERO contact) but I cannot control if he misses her or not. I cannot dictate his feelings and I need to come to terms with that. He has chosen US ... now he needs to heal too.
    - As Pilot's Wife pointed out, my two young babies need to be the center of the universe right now (along with my very real needs) ... so shall my focus remain on healing and on them. The right-now has helped me so much.

    Just thought I would give an update ... my visit to crazy-town was NOT cool and didn't help anyone. So I am back to the land of the living ...

    Cheers,
    Abi

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    1. Abi,
      Write this down and put it somewhere you can see it. You've hit on exactly what you need to do. Control what you can, let go of what you can't. Focus on where you can find joy (your babies). And take care of yourself. That's your game plan for the next little while. Your next right step will make itself known when you need it.

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    2. Abi,

      So glad to hear you're feeling better. After so much trust has been broken, it will take lots of time but now that you're committed to try and he is too, you're on the road to healing. But give yourself lots of time and like you said keep the focus on yourself and your babies. You only get one shot at being a good mom. They will thank you for the effort when they're older, maybe:-)

      Wishing you peace and soft thoughts as you rock your babies to sleep. Believe me, there is no better stage of life than the one you're in. Hopefully your husband can step up to the plate and be an engaged dad. Anyone guy can be the sperm donor but to stay and be a dad takes effort. That's what an officer and gentleman would do, isn't it?

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  55. Sam again

    Why do I torture myself like this? In a moment of saneness I threw out some copies of emails that I had between my husband and other women from several emotional affairs. But I never threw out pix I had of the first physical affair woman. I also never threw out a recording of his on which he saved voicemails from several physical and emotional affair other women. I haven't listened to the recording in a while but I listened tonight.

    I know, I know. I'm pain shopping. Things are going well between us. He and I both say that he spends much more time with me and the kids now than ever, there are many weekends where he is exhausted but I want to go someplace or eat in a particular restaurant so we do.

    I have to stop trying to undermine my own recovery. It's like I want to remind myself that this horrible thing happened to me, lest I enjoy myself now too much and forget what a jerk he was/maybe can still be.

    Just so the rest of you know you are normal when you do this too, I am now almost a year and a half from D-day and I still occasionally pain shop, wallow in self pity, and visit crazy town.

    Sam

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    1. "I have to stop trying to undermine my own recovery." Bingo! I know it's scary, and many of us hold on to the pain because it feels familiar. It's the old "devil you know..." thing. I think also there's a genuine fear of feeling good because we could be blind-sided again. It's like we want to be ready for the next blow. But, ultimately, we're depriving ourselves. None of us knows what tomorrow will bring. None of us. But we know what we have right this second. Now. Savour it as best you can.

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  56. Sam - I know what you mean. I am 18 month from D-Day and I have thrown away all evidence that I had. At the time I felt it was me moving on. I sometimes regret that I did because I want to remind myself how bad it can get, but then I remind myself that I can't move forward if I keep looking backward. It's hard when you feel this black spot that you can't get rid of. It's like having a stain on your favorite couch. No matter how much you scrub you can't seem to remove it completely, so you turn the cushion over, but you still know it's there. People tell me it takes time. I have more good days now than bad. My bad days are getting fewer and fewer and the memories are fading. I just need to find a spot that the memories can go where they don't hurt so much. Just wanted you to know your not alone. I think reading about other's healing path helps.

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  57. Sam,
    My therapist said it would take at least 2 yrs maybe 5 to get past the affairs. Perhaps you are expecting too much of yourself at this point. For me I pain shop after certain triggers and hold on to certain memories to build walls. That's who I am and what I did to survive my childhood and other crap that floated into my life uninvited. At this point in my life I am learning to accept that you simply cannot get back that which was lost. But you can create a new life and realize that those feelings of the affair are just part of it.

    The other day I read " you can overcome many things, but you cannot beat the clock. Life presents imponderable opportunities for failure. Grab your moments of grace, and enjoy them while they last." These are powerful thoughts for many situations in life.

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  58. Hi Everyone,

    We had our first counseling session yesterday afternoon ... we had a babysitter for my 18 month old and the infant was asleep for most of the time. I had an uneasy feeling going into it - just didn't think we were quite ready for that "step" but my husband assured me it was all "part of trying."

    Well the session didn't go as planned for either of us -- the counselor said she had no other word for my husband besides "lost" and that he "doesn't know what is important to him." She says he clearly needs his own therapy. As for me, she suggests I move back home (we are in an overseas tour) to be around those who love and support me ... aka, she thinks he needs some "tough love."

    We weren't ready for that, either ... any suggestions out there? I know that no one can say what he "should" be saying, but what "should" he be saying? I've withdrawn myself from trying to dictate his emotions but am replaying the counselors advice over and over ... just wondering your thoughts out there.

    Thank you,
    Abi

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    1. Hey Abi,
      Wow -- you're really getting trial by fire, aren't you! I've never known of a counsellor to be quite so frank about his thoughts. Usually you get a lot of "well, what do YOU think" from them. This guy doesn't mince words.
      Ultimately, of course, you need to follow your gut. While I agree wholeheartedly with the "he needs therapy" advice and the "he doesn't know what's important to him" assessment, suggesting you move home seems like a really big step that may or may not facilitate your own healing.
      What DO you think? What feels "right" or "right-er" to you? When you imagine staying or packing up and leaving, which feels like it fits better? I can see his point that you need to be surrounded by support right now. And if your husband can't offer that, it certainly builds more resentment in you.
      Thing with this is, nobody really knows what's right for someone else. We can all share stories of what worked for us, but you've got to walk the path that's right for you.
      Do you have someone who knows you with whom you can talk with over, who can act as a sounding board? Who won't judge?
      I'll be curious what others might suggest on this site.
      In the meantime, I'm also curious what your husband's take-away from the session was. Did anything go "click" in his brain?

      Delete
    2. Hi Abi,

      Oh my, this sounds awful! So many questions and only you have the answers. If I were you, I would try to do some individual counseling before I made the final decision but this sounds ridiculous advice given you're probably having just barely enough time to sleep. And if you are a nursing mother, this is so much harder. You need the energy for your babies not the guy who is mooning over the breakup.

      I guess it would be helpful to know if you feel safe where you are. Hopefully your husband isn't stationed in a risky part of the world. If he is, I might just leave if you think your family back home is supportive. It's a tough call cause part of me says he should be there getting up at night changing the babies not fantasizing over the soulmate who got away. And that is a big fantasy that needs to unravel. Some people here have written about doing the 180. Maybe Elle can explain that more. But your husband does sound as if he does indeed need to get his act together. I'm sorry. Wishing you patience, support, and strength to carry the load. You are the parent that your children are depending on. Do whatever you need to protect yourself and them. That is what your husband should have done but I stead he slept with the enemy. my therapist used to say that feelings change. What you feel today, you might not feel a few days or months down the road. Wishing you the very best in a rough situation.

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    3. Hi Elle,
      My husband was shocked, too and offered that we find a different counselor. He did admit that his "head is in a fog" these days - especially after my visit to crazy town on Saturday. I have steadied myself since then and haven't been demanding answers to questions that he just cannot answer without hurting me -- as in, he's still in the affair fog. He did tell me (again) that his mind is elsewhere and when I asked where? He responded, "with her." I do believe that is a result of my craziness - he has pushed away and retreated into fantasy land, again. I do know he hasn't had contact with her and really is just ... lost.

      As for what feels right ... it feels right to believe in him. I have no idea why, but I want to believe I married a better man than one who walks out on his family. He has lately been playing the "dutiful" card -- which I accused him of many, many times recently. As in, he is a dutiful person but has he truly loved me deeply? He knows what a good husband should be like, so he "acts" like one ... but has he truly meant it? Obviously the affair aside - I thought I was married to a wonderful man.

      Not sure if this all makes sense ... it seems like a lot of babble.

      Again, thank you for providing this outlet ... I do have friends who know and who wouldn't judge, but it just seems so much safer to write to you all, who have experienced so much. . .

      Best,
      Abi

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    4. I'm glad you feel safe here. You are, of course, safe here. But I hope you'll also let your friends, even if they haven't experienced this first-hand, help support you through this.
      Pilot's Wife mentioned the 180. I never had to do it, though I've heard from plenty of women who used it to help get themselves on more solid ground. I can certainly see how it would work. You can read more here: http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/rebuilding-marriage-after-infidelity/discussions/messages/12496184
      Hang in there. Follow your instincts. You know your husband better than any of us.

      Delete
  59. U r all absolutely right. Thank u for taking time to share ur words of inspiration & empathy.

    Sam

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  60. Well ladies, the OW sent me a friend request on Facebook and DDay was 13 months ago. My only friends are my family so im not a social media person, my kids are in three states so we all enjoy our pictures and kidding each other. What is she doing? Why is she doing this? She has been in my home, new truck, our country farm, our farm vehicles and my favorite restaurants, my dog remembers her and now this too? Is there anything left just for me? My husband slept with her 3 days a week for 2.5 years! There contact was 95 percent every week for the first year and 65 percent every week the second year. What is left for me? What is she saying, ha ha I had your husband? Remember me? Remember he never me until you found out? Remember all the gifts? Remember, remember and it is just what I'm trying to get over? I'm sick of this mess. Her timing is great just when I feel better then she pops up. Is this nightmare ever going to end? We are getting along great, he is opening up. He has single handled held our marriage together when I wanted to quit. He is on a business trip with me and we were having a wonderful time. Friends you will say don't let her ruin it, that I'm allowing her to ruin everything and I know your right but I feel like shit, tired of even thinking about this stuff. My husband is sleeping on the couch and I'm not talking to him. I'm really tired of all of this. It is getting harder to pick my self out of his gutter. How many times do you get knocked down. Yes the movies are now back in my head.

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    1. Lynn,
      some of these women want to insert themselves in our lives in any way they can. DO NOT "FRIEND" THIS WOMAN. She needs attention like she needs oxygen. Delete the request and continue to move forward. She sounds toxic and needy and, increasingly, desperate. Cut off her supply of oxygen and she will wither (or find someone else to provide a steady supply).
      To answer your question: Life is about getting knocked down. And it's about getting back up. Let yourself wallow briefly...then regain your perspective. She's a sad, sick, sorry person. She needs therapy, not Facebook.

      Delete
    2. Lynn,
      We have to treat the OW like crack. One hit, and we will be spiraling down into the gutter. How do we stay away from the crack? Put up lots of barriers. Block her on facebook. Make sure your settings are not public and only viewable to your immediate friends. If your spouse has FB, and he is willing, he should do the same.
      The OW in my case did invade my family, my circle, and my life. I had to make very clear decisions on what things to cut out from my life to avoid the OW, Some have been painful, such as eliminating certain people from my life. But ultimately, it has helped me to reclaim what was mine.
      Hope you can do that for yourself.

      Delete
    3. Send her a warning letter with lawyer's bill and NC too

      If there is 2nd time, sue her for mental stress and get your husband to prepare post nuptial agreement to give you all his assets. My husband gave me his assets on his own accord.

      Delete
  61. I know you are on the mark I will not do anything that sounds remotely like a friend. I beat my husband up all day. I have to say it felt good. He said you should be mad at her and not me. I couldn't believe it.

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  62. Very accurate and I'm done wallowing, thank you. I read this to my husband and even he said "she is right". Even wallowing all weekend didn't feel as good as it once did. Many many thanks

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  63. I made up my mind not to de-ffriend her but take delight in making her miserable when I post pictures of my husband and I traveling, laughing and enjoying each other and he is smiling in all the pictures now while she sits there hurt, alone knowing I'm going to bed with each night and he wraps his arms around me like he never did before. Knowing I'm the one he wants to be with. I want her know I don't care about her. I want her to wonder, not knowing the entire story. I want her to feel used. I want her to miss his attention. I want her to have no one to call. I want her to find a string of men to try to whine and make them feel sorry for her. I want her to see it all, our new life, our new marriage and our new love. Let her hurt for the rest of my timeline as she looks at two married people who deeply love each other. Now I'm one strong woman.

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    1. Sorry Lynn. This is not making you a strong woman. The focus on how the OW feels, torturing her, wanting to "win." You can't keep doing this and heal. I hope you find that in time you can move on and focus on yourself and your pain.

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  64. Abi--your counsler--did you get a new one? I ask because I THOUGHT right at the start that I would torment my husband to DEATH and I wanted him out of the house, to spare him that 'discomfort' (lol) although I wanted the relationship.
    This was what our first therapy appt was about.
    She said to us "do you both want to work on this?" we both said yes.
    She asked my husband if he would help me thru my pain and support and not judge my radical mood changes (to say the least) and deal with my PTSD.
    He said yes. She asked if i would ALLOW him to stay.
    I said yes.
    She said good,
    because this in the end will be about building something new---the 3rd entitiy in the room called "the relationship? and THAT is step one or step 1b or step 1c of how we got where we are. I might be missing something, sorry, there is so much to read, but even if your husband is "lost" he still might want to stay. And if you allow him to, in my humble opinion, it can be the start of something new. How can you work on a 'relationship' when you're not even in the same house? Just my two cents, and I hope you are both doing better.

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  65. Six months out DD and yet things just keep being revealed. Yesterday my husband had to take me to my cardiologist because my blood pressure was causing me to pass out. My dr. after his exam looked at my husband and said, "I've never met you before and yet I know that you are in someway causing her this massive amount of stress. If it does not stop she will suffer a life altering or life ending cardiac event. " "Do you understand?" I sobbed and my husband looked like he was going to be ill. Shortly after arriving home he told me one of the things he had fantasized about with the OW was that, "What if " I died? Then he could be with her and travel and cook and he wouldn't look like such a SOB. He went on to say I didn't wish you dead, just what my life would be like if you we're gone? Of course he sobbed and begged for forgiveness and I just sat unable to cry or scream. How do I process this? Has anyone else had that told to them?

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    1. I'm so sorry for all the emotional and physical distress you're in. And a big AMEN to that doctor for calling your husband out on this. That took guts!
      If you're not in therapy for yourself, please find someone who can help you process all this. I think what your husband confessed is something that plenty of us might think about (I used to imagine smothering my husband with a pillow post D-Day) but HE DIDN'T HAVE TO TELL YOU. And, in your case, you did nothing wrong. If your husband isn't in therapy, he needs to find someone too. He seems to have issues with boundaries -- case in point, he cheated. Case in point #2, he seems to not understand that certain things DO NOT need to be said. What he could have done is taken those doctor's words to heart and made a promise to himself to spend every day making your life better. He did not need to dump his guilt on you. And it is not up to you to extend forgiveness without spending a lot of time figuring out whether it will help YOU heal or not. This isn't about him...and he doesn't seem to understand that.

      Delete
  66. Hi everyone, Abi here.

    A lot of the same going on here ... with some minor bumps and bruises along the way. Since visiting crazy town I have been able to keep my emotions in check and have been working hard not to fly off the handle. I appreciate reading the "180" - it makes sense and in the end, it looks like everyone benefits from being "cool calm and collected."

    Last Saturday my husband had old college buddies in town and got way, way WAY too drunk .He went to a bar and called me "wandering around" ... aka, ON HER STREET. I had to find him there -- and he was too incoherent to know that he left his phone in the car so I was able to see how often he had tried to contact her (that night). He emailed her saying "hello" and FB messaged her "hello" ... to no avail. However, she has since written back saying that the Navy has transferred her and is no longer anywhere near us. It does prove that my husband has not had contact with her -- he wouldn't have been wandering around her street if he knew she was already gone.

    My husband has since gone back into a depression-like state after having contact with her. . . and he actually went to his tipping point about 3 days ago - telling me it was time to get us back to my hometown. However, he has since changed his mind and really made his own realizations. He has sought his own new counselor and has told me (for the FIRST TIME IN THREE MONTHS) that he has more fight in him - FOR ME and he has made his decision. I guess sticking around can do something.

    I feel battered and tired - of it all - and the thought of working on our marriage doesn't entice me right now. Is this normal? After having worked so hard to "stick around" for 3 months to feel utterly exhausted and NOT excited about working things out? His brutal honesty throughout this whole process is almost unbearable ...

    Thanks everyone!

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    1. Abi,

      It sounds like you are plain worn out and who wouldn't be given what you've been through?! Plus your babies have got to keep you extra tired. I'm sorry, it sounds like your husband is still being very immature. Hopefully the counseling will help but I would guess you have miles to go before you're through the thick part. Searching for the other woman, that's so not cool but you have some tough questions to answer for yourself. What's good for your children and you. That's the biggie. Would your family back home help and help a lot if you take that road or do you want to do the hard work and it is tough of going through the next t so to five years of recovery??? Put yourself first, your children, and then the guy who may or may not cut and run when temptation strikes or life gets too stressful. Wishing you the very best outcome cause your children only get one childhood.

      Delete
    2. Abi,
      I would be shocked if you didn't feel battered and tired. Pilot's Wife has given you good advice. You need to focus on yourself right now (which is a big part of the 180). Get as much sleep as you can, eat well, get some exercise. Surround yourself with anyone who helps -- makes you laugh, can offer support, reminds you that there's still life out there outside of your betrayal bubble. In the meantime, let your husband's recovery be HIS job, not yours. He needs to be a father and partner to you...but he simply can't be a good husband while he's out carousing with his buddies and sending texts to his affair partner. He can't be a good husband while he's waffling about staying or going. Let him get his shit together (or not)...while you work on making yourself strong again. With time, you'll feel more clear about what you want the rest of your life to look like and whether he's able to fit in with that. But that's for later. Right now, your job is you and your kids.

      Delete
  67. People don't usually marry people they hate, but when their lives become unhappy for whatever reason many try to escape through affairs or fantasy. Perhaps it was a midlife crisis, job related, or the relationship wasn't working the affair was the way out of dealing with it. Even now your husband appears to be more concerned that he looks like an SOB rather than concentrating on you. If I were you, I would try to detach and say it's about him and not you. Read, get therapy, just concentrate on yourself to keep your health and let him work on getting his head straight through counseling.

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  68. I am 2 years post discovery and I feel like I have regressed the last few days. I feel so broken. I have shared part of my story under a different section. I found out on New Years Day by an anonymous text telling me to look up my husband online user name he used on the swinger sites. He cheated on me for 6 years with women he arranged meeting by chatting online. He had one favorite though that lived close to us. He saw her frequently for 4 years during the day when he supposed to be working. He also took her on at least 8 out of town "work" trips. The 4 years he was seeing his favorite I was pregnant twice, once with twins and then single. I also lost my mom during this time. I feel betrayed on many levels. I was working while this woman he was seeing was not. She was a webcam girl. This is just highlights of my nightmare. I chose to stay with him because I love him and he is a good father. I think I would be further along in my healing if he would have told me the whole truth when it all came out. He told me about her, but pretending like he never took her out to eat. He claimed they eat pizza in the room all the time. Ha. It was not until I contacted her over a year out that I got more truth. She told me all the places he took her to eat which were many and some local to where I worked at the time. She told me they has pictures with their clothes on. He kept saying he did not remember taking pics with their clothes on that all the pics were sexual. I contacted her again about pics. She said she had deleted all the pics, but had found a letter he wrote her. She sent me pics of parts of the letter. 3 plus hand written pages about his love for her. He had told me that she did not have anything written from him so this letter was a shock. Yes I know I should have assumed, but I did not. He claims he was insane when he wrote that letter and did not remember it. I can forgive him for almost everything except not saying anything to her after she sent me the letter. I feel like she has this hand written letter about his love and that helps her cope with what she did. I want her to know that he regrets writing that letter and every second he spent with her and others. I feel like I am going insane and this pain will never end. Please help.

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    1. Oh man, this is beyond awful! That you can say you still love your husband gives me pause and that he is a good father is hard to believe. Good fathers don't walk out on their families and this has been what your husband has done for 6(!) yrs. Young children close together is stressful no doubt about that but you were shouldering most of the load I assume while he was dating. And if it wasn't dating, what was it? That he loved her is highly doubtful. What he most likely loved was the fantasy and escape. If I were you, I would read Private Lies and get a darn good therapist if you can. Your self- esteem has been knocked to the floor and you really should do everything possible to take care of yourself. Just incase your husband ever decides to bail out again from grown up responsibilities I would have a plan in my head of how you would act on your own. You probably don't want to hear that but that's what I did and things turned around when I got stronger. More independent. One good question to ask yourself is do you want your children to have the kind of marriage you have? Cause if you don't you Ned to start modeling what strong women do and they don't take this kind of shit. He has been so disrespectful to you and his family. Like Lynn posted, your guy needs rules and maybe his own counselor to learn what a good husband and father does cause he sure didn't learn it in his family.

      Delete
    2. Joy,
      Of course you feel like you're going insane. This is absolutely crazy-making. Up feels down, black seems white. Your whole world has been turned upside down.
      This guy shouldn't be given "forgiveness" until he is completely clear on just what he's done to you and his family. He needs to completely acknowledge his choices (and saying he was "insane" doesn't cut it. Unless he's certifiably insane and has the doctor's note to prove it). He needs to understand what he did, figure out why he did it and make serious, long-lasting changes to ensure it NEVER happens again before you should even consider "forgiving" him. Forgiveness is earned.
      I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I agree that you should find yourself a therapist who can help you heal through this and figure out what you want to do going forward. This is a long road, but it starts going in the right direction when you start setting boundaries about what you will and will NOT tolerate from him. But boundary setting is tough for those of us who've never really done it. That's where a therapist will help you too.
      Please get help for yourself.

      Delete
  69. That is a lot of shit to get over, I'm hurting for you. Your pain seems so raw to be two years out. I felt like I was going insane with a lot but not this much. It sounds like you have no rules for him and what you do find out is from the other woman not him. Why? If you are going to stay with him this guy needs some rules or the door.

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  70. My best friend for last 20 years has been staying away from us because she didn't want to jeopardize my healing. She said she knows I have walled myself off to try to get it together this past year. We did everything together as as two couples. She just wants things to back to normal but I can tell she still resents my husband. Here we are in a bathroom in a restaurant and I feel so pathetic trying to explain to her why I'm staying with him. It is too much to explain and I just felt so like a prostitute trying to say why I liked my job. Try explaining why your staying with someone who crawled into the OW pussy for 2.5 years. To someone who hasn't been there and knows me like a book it was hard. She is very supportative either way because she loves me. So then I go home and I look at him and begin thinking again - how in the hell could you do that? How can I explain? Yes we have a new marriage he has been incredible to me. But I felt so pathetic and knew these thoughts would turn into a hurricane that I just went upstairs and slept by myself. He doesn't realize how much his actions have seemed to seep in almost every part of my life and just keep bubbling up. I hate this.

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  71. Lynn,
    I know exactly how you feel. I am 18 months out from DD and my H has been there for me in every way and continues to be. We have never been closer, but I still have days were I wonder am I being manipulated? Am I just afraid to be alone? I'm a very independent person and I don't think either of those things are true really, but what if I'm wrong? I had to explain to my good friend why I stayed as well. My good friend who divorced her first husband because of his affair. She was very supportive and understood that our situations where very different, but I understand how you feel. My therapist says it is my pride talking. My pride is what keeps me second guessing. I don't want to be wrong and I want everyone to understand that staying IS the hard road, not leaving. Leaving is right for some, but not all. I love my husband and I think he is worth it. If I am wrong I will own it and move on, but I will hold my head up high because I did what I thought was right and not what society thinks is I am socially obligated to do. Your friend will understand. Explain to her how you feel. It will probably make you feel a lot better. Tell her that it isn't the easy path and you could use the support. If she is truly your friend she will be there for you. We all need that. Thank God for our girlfriends! Including the ones on this blog!

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    1. Julie,
      I don't think it's your pride talking so much as fear talking. Once burned, twice shy. Who wants to get hurt again, especially when we figure it would be our own damn fault for sticking around?
      But that's fear. It's important to base our choices on what we actually know. Is he remorseful? Is he doing everything he can to help us heal? Is he exploring his own issues that led to the affair? Etc. Etc. Life offers no guarantees. All we can ever do is do the next right thing for us.

      Delete
  72. I found our on Dec. 22nd that my husband had slept with a co-worker 6 months prior. Two weeks after my D-day, I found out that he had been sexting, and exchanging pictures with a girl he had been friends with. All of this had been going on behind my back over the last year. When I found out about the work girl, I confronted her. I kept my temper in check, but I told her never to contact my husband or me ever again (she had quit her job at this point).

    Anyway, my husband has been extremely remorseful and really working to regain my trust and forgiveness. It's because I now have access to his phone, email, and Facebook that I found out about him and the girl he had been exchanging pictures with. I want to confront this girl. I am dwelling on my hatred of her. She doesn't know why my husband and I have blocked her, why we're not speaking with her, etc. I have so much resentment that she gets to live in ignorant bliss. She needs to be told what a horrible person she is. I do blame my husband for his mistakes, but I blame this slut for her role in all of this too. If I didn't know her, I probably wouldn't have this burning hatred and desire to make her feel like the slur t b at she is. She doesn't deserve the happy family she has, her poor husband has no clue, and my husband begged me to not post all of her pictures on her and her children's Facebook pages. He said I can't tear a family apart like that. But you know, she should have thought about the consequences before she sent my husband her disgusting pictures.

    I'm very angry, but I'm not going to post her pictures. I really want to tell her though what a terrible person she is, and the deduction that she's helped to cause. My husband is doing his best, and you'd think that would be good enough for me. But I really need to say my piece to her like I did my husband's former Co-worker.

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    1. I would just print the pictures and hand them to her husband. He has a right to know. Your husband doesn't get to decide, he already made his big decision(s) and "f"ed so I'm pretty sure he's in no position to be giving advice regarding someone elses marriage. Give him the photos and be done with it. He has a right to decide if he wants to be with a cheater just as you do.

      Delete
    2. I feel like I should add, my auto correct sucks. That should be "destruction" not deduction.

      Also, I just got married in October, my husband and I dated for 3 years before we got married, and then my world crashed 3 days before Christmas. I will never really understand why my husband strayed, I have read books upon books on the subject of infidelity since my D-Day. So, while I can hold some understanding of what he was going through and the struggles he was having in the last year, I definitely do hold him accountable for his actions and the betrayal. However I hold the women accountable too, especially since I was under the impression they were my friends.

      The girl that was his friend (I guess I should call her OW2, and make his co-worker OW1), had been his friend for 19 years. She was my friend. The most ironic thing happened the night I found her disgusting pictures. I had been on Facebook Messenger talking with her. Thanking her for being such a good friend to me and my husband. Thanking her for listening to my husband on Dec. 22nd ( D-day) when he was having a hard time. (I never told her why he was having a hard time on Dec. 22, neither did he, but he talked with her that day as I was driving to work. He told her he was a horrible person who did something horrible, and she told him that he wasn't-- I saw the text exchange). So right after I had this great conversations with her, I got onto my husbands email, and went through all of his messages over the last few years and there it was...her disgusting pictures.

      I think that is why I'm so angry with her. Who does that?! Who pretends to be someone's friend like that? That person does not have a conscience and doesn't deserve the happiness they've been given in life. That is a cruel heartless person.

      I hope she gets hers, and I would love to be the one to tell her what a cruel heartless b**ch she is.

      Delete
    3. Charlee,
      I get angry. Believe me. I messaged the OW that she was a piece of $h*t and low class trash. It made me feel a little better, but she is also married and her husband knows nothing of what happened. I want to tell him so that she can have the turmoil I have had to endure. Her husband (who I don't know) seems to be happy in his marriage and brags about how much he loves his wife on FB. If he only knew. Maybe he should know, I'm just not sure I would feel good about hurting the innocent people. They would be the fallout along with her. She isn't worth it and I do hope she will get caught at some point. I just want to inflict the same pain on her. She was from my H's hometown. She is far away and I think about ruining her life everyday. Maybe I am just projecting because I can't hurt my husband the same way. He is really the one at fault. I think we just have to find a way to let go and move on. Easier said than done, I know.

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    4. Julie and Charlee,
      I'm an advocate for telling the Other Spouse. NOT so that the OW is punished (she might rebuild her own marriage to be wonderful) but because the spouse deserves to make the same choice -- to leave or stay -- that we do. He deserves to know what's going on behind his back. We would want to know, wouldn't we? Ignorance, in this case, is NOT bliss.
      I think the right course of action is to deliver to HIM (courier, perhaps, requiring a signature from him) the evidence. Then wipe your hands of it. Let go of the outcome. Outwardly, it may appear that everything is fine. But at least he now knows the whole story and can proceed as he sees fit. I know it's hard. And it's especially hard when kids are involved. But I'm a firm believer in doing unto others etc.
      And, incidentally, does anyone else see a correlation between outward displays of love/affection and bad relationships? A relationship I once envied -- the wife routinely got flowers, spa days, etc. from her husband -- was later revealed to be very abusive. The husband was apparently doing that stuff to apologize for beating the shit out of her. We just never know, do we?

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    5. Elle,

      I agree that the husband of the affair partner should be told in theory but there should be some thought on how it might play out. With the first flight attendant my husband was involved with, her husband found out. Not sure how maybe he found a card or note my husband sent her, but when she called the affair off she told my husband not to contact her again because her husband had threatened to get a gun and blow his head off. Now my husband is a lover not a fighter kind of guy so that was that but it could've gotten very ugly. Look at the news, there are so many shootings involving betrayals. Alas, no one bothered to tell me tho so I could have been tested. No, that was left up to the 2 nd flight attendant to be the tattle tale. Glad she did but am sure she delighted in doing it.

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    6. This is the dilemma I have had for the last two and a half years. Do I tell the OW husband about her long term on/off affair with my husband. This went on unknown to me for years, including during her meeting, moving in with and eventually marrying her husband. I feel he has a right to know that she has kept this a secret from him for all the time she has known him, they married in 2002. My husband is an ex boyfriend of hers from before we were married. He dumped her to go out with me and at the time she was very bitter. They live a long way away from us so if I did contact him it would have to be by letter. I have one written and I know their address but am hesitating to send it. They have no children and she is 63, whilst he is nearly 70. Why would I want to hurt someone his age is my query? On the other hand should he know? Basically I want him to find out but am wary of repercussions on his health. I do want to hurt her and, although all the advice is to avoid trying for revenge, I would be pleased if she had to face up to some consequences. My husband is remorseful and is trying to repair as much damage to me as he can. Things are good and we are slowly progressing but this wish to tell on her is still present. She has made a few attempts to rekindle their contact and he has kept me informed and showed me his replies asking her to stop. A few months ago she visited our town to see her old friends and turned up at an event we would normally have been to. Luckily we were on vacation so only found out later. This almost triggered me to post my letter but I am holding back from this for now.

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    7. It is difficult to make a choice that will cause another innocent person pain. But, he has a right to know. How sad to have spent a life with someone who you thought loved you, and in reality they were cheating on you. it is never too late for someone to know the truth and to be able to make a choice about their future. Who knows, maybe this man would like to change his estate planning options. maybe somewhere there is a lost love that he would have liked to have gotten back to but didn't because he was faithful to his wife. How sad to leave this world having wasted life believing in something that wasn't true.

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    8. So many times I have thought about telling ow #1 s husband about their 1-2 year affair. It was 10 years ago. They had 3 kids at the time. They live 10 minutes away from us, although in a completely different town so we never meet. I know their address & home phone #. I know her email address & cell #. I have thought about driving over there & playing a tape of voicemails she left for my husband.

      But I haven't yet & probably won't. Who knows if he is violent & may take twit out on my husband.

      Also, although they did this, I don't want anyone's pain to be on my conscience. If their family is destroyed, I don't want to be the cause or stimulus. I want to cause her pain, but by telling her husband it will hurt him & their kids more. She will never feel the pain I felt when I found out the truth.

      So I have opted not to tell. So far anyway.

      Sam

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    9. Yeah...I know that there's a (very teensy weensy) risk that someone might end up beaten or dead but there's a far greater risk that some poor soul will go to their death bed never knowing the truth about their spouse but perhaps suspecting...something? Like others have said, I think we all deserve to know the truth about our own lives. And to learn it at a time when there's still something we can do about it. Especially if the OW is still attempting to stay in touch. Quickest way to shut that down is to make everyone aware of what's happened/happening.

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  73. It is confusing to me how many different things my husband states why he had his affair. He felt like I didn't really love him. He felt old and unattractive. It was the passion. She paid attention to him. She took his advice. He was in lust. All she had was his dick. He was lonely and bored. We weren't getting along at all. He felt important. She was something to do. He didn't know how to get out of it because he was afraid she would tell me. She was like crack. When it comes to sex "well she offered". He thought I didn't care about him. She always had a crisis and needed some help. He felt sorry for her. She was his friend. He felt ignored. Some of it was revenge for my successful career. He resented my success. If all sounds like so many reasons, so many factors, so many influences. I guess I never realized all the reasons he had the affair but there sure we're a lot and somehow all this keeps swirling in my mind. I can't wrap my brain around it. He didn't have a reason not to go to bed with someone else. He helped her fill out her disability paper work. She had a hip replacement but managed to give him a BJ only 4 weeks after surgery. She uses a walker on bad days. She is separated but still married for the last 4 years. Her family won't have anything to do with her. She has parkinsons, shakes and falls lot but she was enough to keep him busy for 2.5 years.

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    1. Lynn,
      It all boils down to one thing: He felt important when he was with her. Plenty of guys marry capable strong women...and then feel like they're "not needed." A damsel in distress triggers some white knight syndrome. But that's HIS stuff, not yours. He needs to recognize that you might not "need" him in the way someone falling down from Parkinson's does (seriously?), but you need him to be a partner to you.

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  74. I have not cried for 3 weeks, first time. I grew up in a narrcicistic family. Never good enough, loved for what you do not who you are. Has a lot to do with my healing. I thought while growing up I was never good enough, so ok, I will show my husband. I will be enough, do enough, good enough to MAKE him love me. I will get it right. The more I unravel about me, I can see the why's. I have been through self-esteem therapy. I overcompensate, met my needs through work. Approval, appreciation, acceptance. The affair is wrong no matter what. I can see my H and I were miserable. He never communicated his dispare over his military retirement, his discontent with my career. He played a macho man, not to whine or complain. The resentment built, it migrated to me. Once the dissatisfaction started everything became a resentment. He became an observer not participant. He removed himself from our marriage. He admits its wrong NOW but part of the unraveling. I got tired of trying to get his attention, give up figure I will wait for him to die. Went on 4 years for me, longer for him. He is diabetic eat sugar go , want a pound of bacon? I was damned I was giving up half of our assets for this asshole. I turned to work/family, he turned to the kindergarden teacher. We had an honest talk. He thought, the OW might be his last chance for romance. He had an affair partly because of revenge. I had to travel 60 to 80 percent of the time. I asked him about their sex. He said said it wasn't all that good. He explained the first several months it was exciting, forbidden, passionate etc. He said he woke up "how in the hell am I going to get out of this?" I love my wife but the OW is the type to call my wife. He did enough to keep her happy so she wouldn't call me. He admitted how guilty he felt for the entire time. He said he wanted out of the affair so he tried to find her another a boyfriend on line. He encouraged her to date other men, she is married but separated. He said she became an annoyance, a burden but he didn't want me to find out. He said he was a coward. He felt guilty for using her, he wanted to remain friends but cut out the sex. he knows now that wasn't going to happen. I had in my mind a Hollywood steamy sex. He said he never stayed at her house for more than an hour. He never took her anywhere except dinners once or twice a week. Ok, I was gone Monday to Friday every week for a year, stupid on my part but I really didn't care. Back to sex, he said the first time he just barely pulled his pants down. That doesn't sound like steamy sex. I though I wasn't good enough in bed NOW but after hearing about their sex, what is intimate about a blow job? He explained what we have now in bed, out of bed is what he always really wanted. He said how deeply and passionately he realized he loves me both in and out of bed. I know I'm talking a lot about him but I thought it was new to me how his mind worked. He had to let go of macho man, keeping everything inside, get up off his ass to help me, treat me like he should have been all along and participate again. He has made huge changes. It is like I divorced that other asshole and married this new guy. I have made changes. I speak my mind, I say what I want, I tell him when he messes up, Say when I'm disappointed in him and tell him when he is slipping. We are in the process of rebuilding, connecting and 100 percent honest even if ends up in a fight. I wanted a divorce for the last year but he held us together. I followed the advice of women on this blog. Divorce is always an option anytime. I lessen my travel and I still have my job. Right now I'm looking at my husband sleeping on an air mattress next to our two grandchildren. We have a lot to work out but for today I feel good. For the last year that has been rare for me. HIS affair is still hard to deal with but somehow we are trying.

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    1. Lynn, I am happy for you. Things seem to be moving forward and that is wonderful. Best of luck to you. Stay strong!

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    2. So glad, Lynn. The details of these affairs so often tell the same sad, stupid story.

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  75. Hi Ladies, I have a question for the group: How long did it take those of you who did NOT stay married to the cheating spouse to get the pain of betrayal (and attendant anger -- both at what happened and at the spouse whose idea of "taking responsibility" for it was limited to either "I'm sorry" or "I never meant it to happen") out of your head?
    In my case, the betrayal was 14 years ago.
    After a year of trying to save the marriage, I realized I could not do it alone and left. Since then, I processed, got counseling, lived by myself and reconnected with who I really am (as opposed to Who He Said I Was) and even, 7 years later, got married again. Most of the time, I am grateful for his affair -- without it, I would not have left or met the man I am married to now, who honors me truly in ways the ex never would. He and the OW are still together, though they did not marry and probably won't. All's well that ends well, right?
    What I can't figure out is why I'm still so mad at him. Because he hasn't done any real introspection / accountability / processing since then, so is unable to have a peaceful post-divorce relationship? (We shared a large circle of friends -- and I am still close to members of his extended family, much to his dismay -- and we still cross paths in public.) Because I regret how easily I "let him off the hook" in terms of letting him blame me for his actions back then? Because I can't believe how much I accommodated him, for so long, before I discovered the affair?
    It's so far in the past. I am grateful for where I am in the present. And yet, I'm still pissed at what he did, and how easily he let himself off the hook. Let me note that I don't' think about this all the time -- only when he and I run into each other, or have to talk on the phone, and he reminds me of how stuck he still is. But why on earth does this still bother me so many years later? I would truly love any words of wisdom from other wives (or, in my case, ex-wives) who have been there.

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    1. I can't answer your question from personal experience...but I suspect that your pain around your former marriage/betrayal is really about something else. A deeper pain, perhaps rooted in childhood? Or...you may have hit the nail on your head when you wondered if you're mad at yourself for putting up with it for so long. Forgiveness isn't something that magically happens. It's about making the conscious choice to, as some have put it, give up the hope of a better past. You're doing great. The path you chose led you to a fulfilling life. This is where you're meant to be. His journey is about his own stuff (which, thankfully, is no longer entwined with your stuff). Consider wishing him well (not outwardly but inwardly). Consider releasing him from any responsibility for the poor choices he made. Trust that he's bearing the consequences for those even if, outwardly, it look as if he's just moseying along. He's carrying his own pain, whether he shows it or not. But that's for HIM to sort out. You're free of any responsibility for him. You're only responsibility is to release yourself and forgive yourself for only knowing what you knew back then. You did the best you could at the time. Which, frankly, sounds pretty good.

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  76. "...like I divorced that other asshole and married this new guy." Well said, Lynn. Your words are helping me today. Thank you for having the courage to share.

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  77. Finding out that my Husband has been cheating through out our 11 year relationship was devastating. My whole world has been turned upside down.
    What I thought that I had with my Husband, I didn't. I thought that this man would never hurt me in such a way. I thought what am I going to do? Do I stay or do I leave? If I stay how can I ever trust him again? I will I ever get these images of him being with another woman out of my head? If I leave how will I support my children? I don't work, he does. I use to work and go to school when we had only 2 children. When I finished college I was pregnant with our 3rd child and wanted to stay home this time to enjoy watching our son grow up. Our 2 oldest are girls and before I had our son, I was pregnant with identical twins boys but miscarried them half way through my pregnancy. That was the hardest thing that I ever had to go through. So by the time our son came I didn't want to miss a thing. But now I feel like i should have got myself a job right when I was done school, so I wouldn't be dependent on my husband. I don't work and I don't drive. I am really starting to feel stuck. Like I should have been doing more. I have never felt that being a stay at home mom wasn't enough before.
    My son is getting to school age soon and that it was always the plan to find work when he starts school, now I have a fear of being away from my husband for too long for fear of him having the opportunity to cheat. I know this isn't healthy and I am working on that. We are both going to counselling.
    I also find myself thinking now that all men cheat. When I am out and I see a couple, I catch myself wondering how many times he has cheated and does she know about it.
    It has only been a few months since I found out and I hope that it gets better.
    I do love my Husband and want to try and work on our relationship and he says he does too, but I am extremely scared to put my heart back into it and he breaks it again.
    He says that he will never do this again, that he now knows what it feels like to lose me and he doesn't want that. Why does it have to take him to almost lose me to not want to betray me?
    We are getting into why he has done this and a lot has to do with how his mother treated him as child. Telling him that she never wanted him, giving his brother love but not him, not feeling wanted his whole life. It still is not an excuse in anyway. He had a choice to come to me but he didn't. He says he didn't want to look weak to me, that what I think about him means a lot to him.
    Now I worry if he is feeling not wanted will he be able to come to me or will he just turn to someone else?
    I want to mention that he has cheated with 6 different woman all one night stand. Every two years or so he would cheat.

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    1. I'm so sorry for the pain you're in. All of us here have been exactly where you are -- wondering what to do, where to go, what it all means.
      Your situation is not all that unique. I would suggest you make no big decisions right now until your head is clearer. You have kids to also think about.
      BUT...you get to decide the rules in the meantime. It sounds as if this has blown open a lot of pain in your husband re. his childhood. You are NOT his therapist, nor should you be. He needs to see a professional who can help his process all this in a way that releases him. That doesn't mean he can't talk to you; it just means he needs someone who hasn't been wounded by him and can be objective.
      I would also urge you to get counselling to help you sort through the confusion of your own feelings. Betrayal cuts incredibly deep. You need someone to help you heal and focus on what you need going forward.
      You'll get there...I promise. The first weeks/months feel like total muddle. But slowly, the light seeps back into your life.
      In the meantime, read here. There are so many smart, compassionate, wonderful women on this site who will share their wisdom and their support.

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  78. Thank you so much, Elle, for your kind and wise response. You were exactly right. After I messaged your group, I kept thinking and doing an "emotional autopsy" if you will on the relationship, looking for clues. And it hit me: I was mad at myself for accommodating him -- his wants, his needs, his desires -- from the beginning of our relationship, which set up a pattern over the 20 years we were married. As soon as I realized that, I also realized I wasn't really mad at myself -- I was young and doing what I thought one did in order to be loved. I forgave myself for being young and not yet knowing who I was. And with those realizations, I felt the weight of the anger at my ex lift. The anger was a marker I just needed to follow down to its root. Thank you for making this site, and for all your care. Reading everyone's stories was a huge key in helping me get to the bottom of my own.

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