The kickass survival site for anyone who's ever been lied to, cheated on and left for dead.
I would love to hear from others like myself who at one time forgave an affair, mine 7 years previous, and am now in the process yet again. We never went to counseling the first time and have been doing that and much work to make our family stick together this time around. It has been 14 months so far and what a struggle it has been, but we continue to move forward. I am not sure that our love will ever be as strong as it once was. The damage has been done and trust broken. Would love to know I'm not alone. I look forward to hearing you and knowing if anyone made it work after not one, but two affairs. Support on this sight has been a blessing .
I think it's crucial to get counselling after affairs or they often do get swept beneath the rug only to have the same problem emerge years later.The affair is generally a symptom of the problem...not the problem itself. By examining the problem under the cold light of day, it's far less likely it will be repeated.Elle
My H and I did go to counseling. I thought we were doing well, albeit stuck in a rut. He'd had an affair before we married, it was painful, he returned, we did counseling, I acknowledged my complicity in his feelings since I was depressed and felt bad about myself.Well, 11 years later, and he's having multiple encounters with MEN. I am no longer complicit. I have no patience for any excuses, including Sexual Addiction and if he can't get it together, I'm done. He knows this and knows that trust is broken. He claims he will do WHATEVER it takes, so I have the little glass wall up, but can see through it while not letting myself be swept into his nonsense. You really need a counselor. For YOU. And he needs to find out why he puts the most precious thing in his life...you....at risk.
My husband had an affair 10 years ago. I got through that wich was really painful and long still dont know how I did it. He just did it again. This time it started right after our 20th anniversary and he was curios and went to Ashley Madison affair website. He says it was just curiosity but he was looking for another married woman to have affair with him. He came to me before it happened, but then when the argueing wasnt going his way, he went behind my back to talk to someone. when I caught him he said he was wrong just wanted to keep the door open...Well it really made me really untrusting. I wanted to know everywhere he was every email text phone number. He always would go into the bathroom with is electronics wich really freaked me out. Well then still under susupesion I found a text that was strange so I looked it up and found he was talking to someone from work. He started out just coffee and talking and said he started taking walks ,and then one day she leaned in for a kiss and he kissed her. Then after that they kissed a couple more times. He said she gave him her address wich I found on his trucks GPs and freaked out. He said he never went to her house he just looked up where she lived. He said he eneded it out of guilt. We have been trying to work it out. He says he loves me and wants to be with me forever. I have lost trust in what he has said to me. We were highschool sweethearts and I would have never thought he would do this to me ever. I am having a hard time with this. I want to forgive, but I dont trust him much. When he told me nothing was going on he lied. He feels so deffensive for the looking at his phone at times, but he doesnt see what he did as an affair for he only kissed her. How do I really trust it isnt still happening. He did let me see an email he wrote to her saying they couldnt be friends. However she still works in his building. How can I get past this. We arent going to counseling. I just want to believe him again...I would like any advice.
I so often hear women say "I just want to trust him again" as if there's a magic wand that can make this possible. The reason you don't trust him is because he's proven himself to be untrustworthy. He has shown you, over and over, that he will lie and deceive and go behind your back to do things that he KNOWS are not okay. And then he hides behind semantics, saying that kissing another woman was "not an affair". That's nonsense. Cheating is cheating. If he's doing something that he wouldn't be doing right in front of you then it's cheating -- whether it's a conversation, a text, hugging or full-on sex. It's cheating.So...the question is what are you going to do about it. Your mind can't just trust him again because there's no evidence that he's trustworthy. I wouldn't even consider giving him another chance unless he's willing to attend therapy to figure out why he's willing to (over and over and over) risk his marriage to someone he claims to love. In the meantime, he needs to give you access to every single piece of electronics he has -- phone/computer/iPad/whatever. He needs to know that you're going to see anything he does online. That you're going to know about every conversation and text. If he balks at this, too bad. If he's serious about wanting to rebuild his marriage, he needs to recognize that the only way he can help create trust is to reveal himself to be trustworthy by proving to you that he's not doing anything he shouldn't be doing.But seriously...I want you to think about what he's done. Make a list. Show him of all the times he's betrayed your trust in him. All the times he's betrayed his vows to you. And then he'd better come up with a really good reason why he deserves another chance. And a plan for how he's going to make it up to you for the rest of your lives. He has cheated on you, emotionally and physically. If he won't even acknowledge that then you've got a long road ahead of you.I'm sorry -- I really am. But guys like him make me furious.And ashleymadison makes me even more furious.L.
When we were in our thirties, I found out the impossible - my husband had been having an affair with a woman at work for over a year. She broke it off because, as she put it, my H was "not going anywhere" meaning he had no intention of leaving me (she was newly divorced and looking for another husband). After going through the pits of hell, we finally healed together, and twenty some years later, I hardly thought about it - my mindset was "Boy was that a crazy time in our lives - learned our lessons, never have to go through that again, whew!" Then, in February, 2010, I found out he had been having another affair with a woman at work. Over the next year, as the truth trickled slowly, painfully out like Chinese water torture, I learned the affair had lasted ten years, and that he had had another year long affair years ago besides the other one, and that he had had sex with fourteen other women through one to two night stands over our entire relationship - 5 before we were married, and the rest after. So - in short - yes, I've been there! Am there - 3 years later, still digging out yet again. But in the meantime, our marriage has become more authentic than ever. The reason I'm still giving him a chance is that this time he agreed to counseling, felt horrible remorse (not just fake remorse like last time); has finally become reflective,more authentic and honest, and tries to be the man he always wanted to be; i.e. a man of honor and integrity. I believe he is now faithful and has every intention of remaining so for the rest of our days. So I'll take it and the many great times we are experiencing now together. But I will never again be so naive as to think it can't happen again. I, like so many others, have had to temper my fairy-tale fantasies with a hefty dose of realism! I wish you much luck in your healing journey.
I am so happy to see that it's working for you. I hope the same works for me, and I agree I may never be naive again. Kinda miss that naivete, I must add....
Leave him. He has a personality disorder.
I think we need to be careful of "diagnosing" people based on a very tiny snapshot of their behaviour. It isn't helpful…and can, in fact, be harmful to someone trying to keep their head above water. It's certainly possible that he does have a personality disorder…but just as likely that he doesn't. Not everyone who cheats, despite what some propose, has narcissistic personality disorder. I think we have too strong a tendency to pathologize things. Given that between half and three-quarters of marriages experience infidelity, I have a hard time believing there are that many people with personality disorders.Elle
My husband has been sexing dudes for over six years and I never suspected! Sex Addict, yeah, maybe. But, seems to me he's a Selfish Asshole. I've known him since we were 16 years old and we reconnected at 37, and married at 41. Now 52. He's been boinking dudes for more than half of our married life.And we've done lots of reading and therapy and I DO believe he's a Sex Addict of sorts, but DANG! I'd been willing to have a dude in the bedroom and have it a part of our sex life, and STILL he chose to lie and be degraded (his words) for 6 years.I love the ding dong.
Anonymous,Whatever works for you is no business to the rest of us. And it's often not the sex that upsets us the most (though it's certainly part of it) but the lies and deceit.Is he interested in seeking help for his behaviour? Or does he not think it's a problem? Is he bisexual and wants to live as such?You, of course, need to get clear on what you will/won't tolerate. It's possible to love someone while refusing to allow yourself to be disrespected by his behaviour. Elle
My husband had a short affair about 17 years ago. He was out of the country for 3 months and was "lonely". Well, I was lonely too but I didn't go out screw anyone. Took me a LONG (i.e. years)) to get over it. Went to counseling. Counselor actually told me to leave him (there were other issues as well). The main reason I stayed was for my kids. Anyway, the last 6 or 7 years have been good, the last 3 years have been really good. Imagine my shock to find out he's been seeing prostitutes. I found out when he called from jail because he was arrested for soliciting a prostitute. Of course the first words out of his mouth was "I've never done this before". Yeah, right, you just never got caught before. He finally fessed up that he's done it twice before, but I don't believe him. This time his excuse was "I'm getting old (he's 55) and I want to feel young again." Well, guess what, I feel old too but I don't go out and hire a prostitute. This is going to be a very long rough road. He swears he loves me, cannot imagine his life without me, this is the biggest regret of his life, blah, blah. Our youngest is in high school. If not, I'm not so sure I would still be here. I am absolutely devastated, heart broken, and feel like the biggest fool in the world. I'm not sure if I feel foolish because I stayed the first time, or if it's because I may stay this time.
Anonymous, How incredibly painful it must be to discover that you have to go through this again.You're NOT a fool and beating yourself up doesn't help in any way. You did the best you could with what you knew. Now you know more and you get to make a choice with new information.Regarding whether to stay or go, can you give yourself some time and space to think this through? It sounds as if you're thinking about everyone but yourself. You don't owe him anything and he certainly owes you the chance to determine if you can move past this again. Divorce or separation is never ideal for kids, but at high school age, they can certainly understand that infidelity/deceit is grounds for dismissal, so to speak.I'm not encouraging one choice over another. That's for you to decide. I just want you to be sure you're making the best choice for you.Elle
I still can't understand these men who look for transvestites and cross dressing men and prostitutes and getting a blow job from men( my cheating husband included) when asked they say there not bi not gay.... They love women?! What?! I don't get it. I found stuff on our computer that would make you so sick. What a weirdo. Shock yes!! I don't know this person. It has been going on since before I even met him. Have known him for 12 years..... He won't get counseling for sex addiction. My question is will this inner urge ever go away for him? He says it will. I'm more concerned about this than him ever having a one night stand or being with a women.
I don't think I'll ever understand it either but I'm not wired that way. I had a hard time with my husband's sex addiction and various things he did. He explained it as like a drug addict, needing more and harder drugs as time goes on. The thrill fades so they need greater risk. My husband also said that men ensured that he wouldn't get emotionally involved in any way. It's strictly sex. Unless he gets treatment for sex addiction though the future doesn't hold much promise for you. Like any addiction, unless he's willing to work through what drives him and develop methods to control it, he's likely to slip. If it was a true addiction, then simply white knuckling it might work in the short term but doesn't ultimately get to the root of the behaviour. It's possible he'll replace one addiction for another -- like gambling, for example.In short, he needs help, especially with someone experienced in dealing with sex addiction. With therapy, it's possible for the urge to diminish though it may never "go away". Like an alcoholic who has simply made up their mind they'll never drink again...but still can't take a drink or they know where it could lead.It's not a bad idea for you to also seek treatment in order to better understand what you're up again. Patrick Carnes is the acknowledged expert in the field. His daughter Stefanie wrote a book called Mending a Shattered Heart, which is for partners of sex addicts and is really wonderful. I hope you'll check it out.Elle
Thank you Elle, I will check out the book! As always your response and great advice is so appreciated. You are an inspiration and I am grateful. Thank you
Hi, I am glad that I found this website its good to know that there are alot of women out there that are on thesame boat. heres my story. Its been 5 months since I found out about my husbands affair, the OW was someone that I knew and very young herself with 2 children. I have been marri3d for 7 years and when I found out it broke my heart I confronted the OW and unfortunately beat the crap out of her a month later she moved out of state. I forgave my husband and both agreed on working things out and didnt want to throw away the family that we built. H said that it was a mistake and he dowsnt want to leave me and the kids and he is done with her. 2 weeks ago I found out that she is calling him, they still are in contact through video chat. I confronted her and she wrote me a nasty message telling me that she told my husband not leave me and my marriage is pratically done and they have much bigger things going on. I confronted the H about it bcuz he read the messages and he said it was all BS and he doesnt w as t to be wth her what should I do im tired and fed up with the bs and lying im getting to the point that I want to throw the towel and say the hell with it
Faatau, I'm glad you found us too.For starters, I'm glad you view it as "unfortunate" that you beat up the OW. As much as I think many of them deserve it, violence generally creates more problems. However, it's done.Your husband needs to have absolutely no contact with this woman and, frankly, so do you. Nothing! If she won't stop, see what you can do about getting a restraining order to keep her away from both of you. Your husband needs to start by sending her a No Contact message -- insisting that she stay away from both of you and letting her know you'll take legal steps if she continues to contact either of you. Do NOT engage with her at all. She feeds off the drama of this. Only then can you two begin the process of healing from this. If your husband continues to stay in touch with her behind your back, then he's not committed to your marriage. It's really that simple.I hope you can get this woman out of both of your lives. She sound toxic.Elle
This is awful to say but that's a dream of mine to beat up the other woman. It actually makes me happier when I daydream about it. Hang in there. Fight for how you deserve to be treated. Good luck
I've written before about how one of my favorite fantasies involved imagining the OW naked and caught in my headlights, running in panic as I drove toward her in my car. The thought of her fear and panic, as she ran always made me giggle.Fantasies are fine. They can help us manage the incredible anger and impotence we feel. But let's keep them fantasies. I don't want any of us slapped with assault or attempted murder charges.Elle
Dear Elle,I found out about my husband using porn a couple of years ago, he swore its because he was depressed and out of work. At the time I asked him to reveal anything else, he promised me it had only been happening a couple of months and that he was disgusted with himself and he was glad I found out. A week after that as I was hyper alert I decided to check the computer. At the same time he had started looking up prostitutes, when I confronted him AGAIN, he said that he made a phone call but couldn't go through with it, he just put the phone down.3 months after that all seemed well but I found out he started an affair. He was working by this stage and all seemed well. The type of woman he went with was cheap.He has cried and said he didn't know what he was doing at that time, swears he doesn't have a problem. I do know the affair is over. However, I am left with a huge problem. I know he must have issues to be this way. He swears he's " over it all" but you cannot act in that way and just come out of the woods. I want him to see this blog so he can understand I'm not a paranoid wife, just someone that wants him to get well. Please help.
H'mmm...he's been caught THREE TIMES doing things that he admits aren't appropriate and that disgust him, promises THREE TIMES that it's nothing, it won't happen again, etc. And he thinks you're being paranoid?? Would he let someone try and rob him THREE TIMES. First time was just a few cents, no big deal, second time was a few bucks, nothing to worry about... You are responding rationally to someone who's asking you to trust him even though he's revealed THREE TIMES (have I made my point yet?) that he's not to be trusted.I'm sure he is disgusted with himself. He might even mean it when he says he'll never do it again. But history has revealed that his promises don't hold. History has shown him that either he's lying or he's powerless or, likely, both.It's terrifying for men engaging in this to acknowledge that they have a problem. Like any addict, it's far more comfortable to pretend that it's all under control. It clearly isn't. I think you're completely within your rights at this point to insist that he seek help, either through a 12-step group focussed on porn/sex, or with the help of a therapist, preferably one who specializes in porn/sex issues. Men who seek out porn compulsively generally have issues with intimacy. And porn literally rewires the brain, negatively impacting a man's ability to connect with a real-life woman in a healthy way. I'm not anti-porn, or anti-sex at all. But I've read a ton of stuff about how harmful it is, particularly in large amounts. My husband is a sex addict who watched a ton of porn and he's very clear on how it messed with his head. So...I would make it a condition of reconciliation for him to seek help. This is a matter of your own emotional and physical health. Create clear consequences if he doesn't get help by a certain deadline. He sleeps on the couch, he moves out, or whatever seems appropriate to you AND THAT YOU WILL STICK TO. This isn't about you being a prude or paranoid. It's about you doing what's necessary to ensure the survival of your marriage.Elle
Hi Elle, Update.. Husband wants to get to the bottom of all this for himself and for his family. He has booked his first session with a counsellor. THANK YOU.Shall keep you informed. x
hi. my husband had his first affair almost 20 year ago. it was a quick encounter, he confessed and we went to counseling together. it took years for us to feel like a couple again. we had 2 small kids and that was why i stayed. fast forward 20 years, my kids are now 21 and 20, and i have just found out last week that my husband has again cheated on me. again, with a woman from his work. this time it was more calculated and lasted longer. my husband is 60 years old. i have kicked him out until i can make heads or tails of the situation. he is sad, crying and wanting to come home. i can't do it again. i want to call the other girls husband (i know him and where he works). has anyone ever done that? they have kids together and i feel he should know. i have not told my kids. i am waiting until i can think clearly and make good choices. even at 20/21 my kids feel our home is their 'safety' net and i am sure once i deliver any sort of news like this their world will be shattered. i don't want to do it before exams. and i don't want to cause undue stress on them. so i am alone. i can't talk to anyone for fear it will be leaked out and my kids will know. i haven't eaten in days. i just want a friend who knows how incredibly painful this is.
You have a community of friends here who know exactly how painful it is. I'm so sorry for what you're going through.We also know how exhausting it is taking care of everyone around you, worrying about the impact on their lives...all while trying to make sense of it yourself.You're wise to give yourself time and space to sort through your own feelings around this. It must be excruciating to go through this a second time.My personal opinion is that the other spouse should be told. I think it's simply compassionate to give them the same knowledge you have to allow them to make their own choice about whether to stay or go. When asked, pretty much all of us say we would want someone to tell us. It's also a way to ensure that the affair is brought out right into the open -- makes it much less likely to survive. But if you tell, you must not invite their problems into your choice. You don't want anything more to do with this woman. Tell him...and then back off and let him determine how to proceed. Again, I'm sorry for what you're going through. But you will get through this. Please don't hesitate to share here and gain support from those who've been there.There's also a phone line listed in my latest blog post (When you can't just "get over it") which offers free counselling with women who've been through this.Hang in there.Elle
The truth always sets everyone free, she/ He didnt just cheat himself out of a loving wife, but he also cheated himself/herself out of a relationship with his children. Did it ever occur to you that he/she is not fully present in their lives either, emotionally. The future has been taken away all because he/she needs to go see a doctor and be honest about his/her weakness? Kids are the ones who think its their fault when the parents get a divorce after the second time .. The mother thinks she is doing the right thing the first time by staying and holding the family together. The first time should have been when the truth was told so that the person could really deal with his shame and guilt and sickness...What about the children who are attracted to people like their parents and encounter bad relationships over and over because of what they think is loving and normal..Most kids grow up feeling angry because they had no idea that the parent not valuing the family caused the break up and no one told the child because they didnt want to bring shame or be the bearer of bad news, So the child is usually angry at the spouse that initates the divorce.What the child can learn is so valuble, in the future That child will make a choice to value his/her family above their feelings of if they want to have immediate gratification and if the child sees the train wreck for what it is they will learn how to prevent these type of relationship or they will be sheltered from the truth and think that its normal to expose the whole family to diseases and danger...think about it, its not just about you!! it's part of the moral decline in our society. He/she can always earn trust back by living on his/her own getting help and valuing the people in his life you can't change them, he can manage his own checking account and be single and then you can always get remarried..Its no longer right to leave your home open to violators ie your mate.Your mate is sick letting them go may give them a chance to get help, the plea to stay is just prolonging their healing and your families, The separation and rebuilding "sting" will either save them or they will continue, its up to them...
his first affair was emotional; at work with a visiting colleague... they had chemistry... all about his low self esteem and enjoyed her attention. he downplayed when Ifound out by finding evidence though evedence that she was really hooked.. it finished and we let the subject drop... this was 3 years ago. whizz forward to summer 2012 - he picked up somebody in a bar and began a sexual relationship but I found a breast lump and had surgery to remove the cancer at end of summer when he stopped seeing her. she contacted him mid way through my treatment and they restarted the sexual relationshio.... as I finished my treatment, i found the condoms... i drove him over for us to confront her together and he ended it. i have since written to the first ow and 'returned' the filthy photos of herself at she had mailed to H so i have had the opportunity of some revenge. i wanted more but, now i just can't bear the hurt that he could cheat whilst I was in such a vunerable popsition. We are trying to work it out, he answes all questions but, I found out that he gave me edited versions. i think I now have the full stories with a lot of detail but, it's the isolation and lonliness of this position that I have been put in that really builds up the pressure of the situation - I have nobody to talk to other than him; at last I think I recognise true remorse in him; he can even comment about how he has destroyed me...
It's a familiar refrain… "how could he cheat while I was pregnant/facing cancer/dealing with elderly parents/coping with my father's death/helping our disabled child". It happens often enough that I'm convinced the affair is often BECAUSE of the vulnerability/inavailability of the spouse. That's not the same as saying it's the spouse's fault. It's that a lot of these guys can't cope when we're not totally okay. Suddenly an affair seems like an escape from these horrible feelings they have that they can't solve our problems or get our attention. An affair is often like a little child acting out to get someone's attention.But yes, it's the isolation/loneliness that crippled me too. And it's why I created this. We need to talk to each other. We need constant reminders that we're going to be okay, with or without him. That what we're going through -- the rage, the tears, the numbness, the fear -- is completely normal and won't last forever. Please…talk to us.Elle
I have no body to talk to, I said that to a Jewish friend of mine who lost her family to the holocaust and she replied all I have is God I have no family or friends...I figured if she can make it and not be angry at the people who destroyed her family, and shes not mad at GOD then..Talk with him he may respond.
See Anonymous' note below. We're here. And we'll listen. And we'll remind you that you will get through this.Elle
You do have people to share with though. I'm hear reading your words and sending all good wishes and thoughts to you.
Oh my goodness, I just came across this site today and I'm terrified. I found out about 3 years ago that my H was having an emotional affair with a woman at work. I think more happened between them, but he denies it. We went through intensive counseling that year. Then exactly one year later I find out he had been having several other emotional affairs at work and there were others from years before (I found old emails). To say that I have been an emotional wreck these 3 years is a gross understatement. All I have done is.... "hyper-vigilance as the partner or spouse searches for yet some other betrayal" (Elle's quote of Julie Gottman). He works in a profession that is mainly women so all I think about is..is he still being unfaithful, is he talking to another woman, and if he is I will find out. It is HORRIBLE, I don't have a life, I am consumed by this. And now I read how these men have had yet another affair 10 and 15 years later!! My H really does nothing without me, he says he wants his marriage, he really does try. We have been thru literal hell these 3 years; all I have done is accuse him of cheating on me and he is still there...we have no small children, no huge property or financial issues to hold him back, yet he is still there...but I just can't shake the feeling that he needs and craves all this attention from other women. I'm only 41, do I really want to sit around and wait for another one to happen?!?!?
You say you've been dealing with this for three years? That's far too long to be hanging on my your fingernails. You need to wrestle this monster to the ground.What has each of you done to deal with what happened? Each of you needs a grasp of what he was seeking with these affairs. Him…so that he can understand that he's looking outside his marriage (or outside himself) for something that he should be looking for inward. And you, so that you can trust that he's made fundamental changes in himself to ensure he doesn't seek outside the marriage something he should be seeking from you or from himself.Until then, each of you is likely white-knuckling it, which simply can't hold forever. Not without making each of you miserable. What does he say? Does he acknowledge the pain he's caused you? Is he someone who craves exterior validation of himself? Do these women feed some hole in him around his worth? If you haven't sought counselling, why not? It sounds as if both of you have unaddressed issues and your marriage is bringing those issues out. You don't want to sit around and wait for "another one to happen." So take charge, figure out what each of you wants from the marriage and find someone who can help you create that.Elle
Hi Elle, I posted on this page before and you suggested my husband saw a counsellor or 12 step programme regarding sex addiction. Said I would post an update.My husband has been completely understanding and eager to further explore the situation which he has now done. The Counsellor does not see it as sex addiction but as being emotionally needy and this stems from his upbringing and wanting to feel needed.I am at a complete loss, I feel now that the counsellor has backed him up and that I seem to keep bringing up problems which aren't there. She has said what an amazingly strong woman I am and that he needs to always put his family in the forefront of his mind on any decisions and that he did make bad choices but he was depressed and the behaviour was only consistent for that 18 months, albeit 3 lies but she feels it is part of one and the same thing!This is an accredited counsellor specialising in this behaviour and relationships. For some reason I thought she might have thought that this behaviour was indeed addictive. Ideas please.
I'm certainly no expert…and I would hope that she's not minimizing what he's done. Just because she doesn't feel it's an addiction (that's good news! It means it's easier for him to control) doesn't mean that it hasn't caused enormous harm within your marriage -- harm that he needs to be accountable for. If he's feeding some sort of deep emotional need by seeking sex outside the marriage, what does she suggest he do about that, beyond NOT going outside the marriage? In other words, how does he address the emotional wound in a healthy way? Does he have any thoughts on that?I understand your desire to be able to blame his behaviour on an addiction. It can seem like a "solution" to the problem of a spouse's infidelity. Get treated and problem solved. It's rarely that simple.And regardless of the reason why a spouse steps out of the marriage, the damage is extreme. Try and view the counsellor's prognosis as good news but that nonetheless means that he's got work to do. Kinda like finding out you don't have cancer…but you do have heart disease.And yes, you are an amazingly strong woman. You'll get through this, moreso if your husband continues to want to seek answers to ensure he doesn't make such a painful choice again.Elle
Hello. I just recently found this page. I found out 11 months ago that my husband had a 8 month affair with a secretary at work. He ended it and we began counseling. Things were starting to heal and we found out that we were pregnant with out second child. I was so excited. 2 weeks before my due date my husband confessed to me that he had had another affair and she was now pregnant. Not only that but 6 out of the 8 years we were married he had multiple one night stands with about 12 different women. I am completely shattered. I have no idea what to do. I want my family but I can only take so much. He has started counseling and has accountability partners. I see change in him but I wonder if its too late.
I'm so sorry for everything you're dealing with. Your situation is something like mine -- my husband had one-night stands pretty much throughout our marriage (and even before it). Like you, I was shattered. I couldn't believe this was my life.That was six years ago and I'm now able to look back and see that time as something like a wild storm that blew through…and then we rebuilt from the wreckage, selecting what we wanted to keep and what we wanted to put behind us.Regarding whether it's too late, that's a question only you can answer. Sometimes the damage is simply too much and you're unable or unwilling to move past it and rebuild the marriage. That's absolutely an okay choice. There is no right or wrong with this. I just urge every woman to ensure that whether she stays or goes, it's because she's completely clear on her options and is able to decide what's best for her. Consider what you want your future to look like. Is he in it? Or not? Your call.Elle
ruuuun and don't look back...Its just for right now..stop settling for this in america its effecting the future generations. its etched in the memory pattern of his brain he will have to overcome the feeling at some point again..
Read yr posts. I found out in 2011 that my husband had had 2 maybe 3 mistress and girlfriends over 33 years of marriage. Mistress with children and he adopted them in the will/trust, which I finally read the whole thing. I know that makes me sound pretty dumb. I found bank statements to banks I knew I wasn't involved in and old credit card statements that someone always charged to home building things. We were never redecorating our house but someone was. Life insurance policies and annuitities with our name on them but I was never there to sign these papers. Still he claims theres nothing going on and makes fun of me. We're separated and still I look for evidence of him cheating and find it. Stuff charged in PA. and then stuff coming to our house from around that area, seems too true to not be. I asked my daughter once, she still lives there when her Father comes home, I knew I shouldn't have but I did b/c that night I stayed there and he still wasn't home at 7:30 p.m. and she said Dad comes home when he wants. I just want real evidence but he is so clever at this and has been for years. I just want my suspicions or my reality or fears to be resolved and him face that what he's done has been his fault if he never came to me to try and work out our differences but took the easy route even though it wasn't of having affairs. I just feel he's put all this in my lap and skirted off to have another affair and left me with the baggage of why and what was wrong with our marriage and me and he says he just wants to live. I guess he said this b/c I have depression/anxiety and he said I can't fix you. I heard some guys even one of my counselors say he's been good to you how long have you been sick? She said guys won't stay with sick women. I thought she was kidding. I guess not-he wants to live. Didn't he live for 30 years in our marriage? How much living is he entitled to? He worked 3 jobs and only now I realized it was all for them, to give them what he wanted to give them. I was never a shrewd or kept sex from him or argued with him, but he controlled everything and now he is still in control b/c I don't work b/c of my sickness. My heart has been broke and I'm still trying to make sense of what seemed our happy years even though there was anger and lonliness there, no emotional connection. He's betrayed me and our children and he thinks I'm being unreasonable b/c I didn't want a separate checking account. Yea and what if you don't put money in it, then I'm really stupid for believing you. How can a man who someone lived with for 30 years be so cruel in the end after I gave him 30 years of the best of my life, he even said so, and still turn on me and say it's b/c i;ll never change and b/c I won't let go of my anger and bitterness. Well yea, especially when you say it's all my fault and I'm making all this up and he won't talk about any of the evidence I found or say or get angry and say he wrote all those checks with different handwriting on it. Come on I'm not that stupid. He had all through the years had things sent to other postal places and I trust him so much I never asked where his paystub was or the checks we wrote b/c all the bills were paid. Now I'm in this little crappy apartment and he has the house, the kids, his reputation still. I've never learned how to fight for anything or stand up for myself and now that I have to my heart just breaks to think of the stink it might cause but sometimes I'm so mad that I want to hurt him so bad for his sexual addiction or his cruelty, it seems so unfair what he's done but I keep obsessing over him but I don't want him to know. I'm 57, how am I going to go on. I don't get it, he dresses sloppy and he's not that good looking but it seems he's had no trouble finding women to keep him company
My guess is that the women he finds to "keep him company" are no prizes.I'm so sorry for what you've gone through. But this guy is not, and has not, been your friend or your partner. What he's done to you is emotional abuse. And you need to shift focus from him to yourself. What are you going to do to save yourself. You've got plenty of years ahead…and they deserve to be happy ones. You deserve to feel good. But you need to insist upon it…from everyone in your life. You need to demand to be treated with respect and kindness. And you need to find a therapist who can help you understand why you've put up with such lack of respect for so many years…and how you can turn things around. You're worth the effort. I hope you'll make it.Elle
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I need help.My husband had an emotional affair 2 years ago, he finally confessed a week after they kissed for the first time. We got back together, and I had an affair a couple of weeks after that, but realised that I loved my husband and went back to him and I fell pregnant , after years of trying seemed like a miracle. In may this year went back home to visit my parents. While I was there I told him how I have been sending emails to the guy I had the affair with when I say affair we only kissed and he touched me a couple of times no sex or anything. When I told my husband he said that he still had feelings for this other woman and never stopped talking to her. They ended up having oral sex we separated for 4 months and during this time the husband of this woman commited suicide. I told my husband I wanted him back and he obliged, 2 weeks ago I found out im pregnant again and I do not want to have this baby , mostly because I don't think my husband is being honest and I think he still talks to her even though he moved jobs. I'm so sick and angry still I just want to make this feelings dissapear and move on :(
I think both of you have issues with commitment. If you're going to have this baby, please do everyone a favour and seek help to work through what a healthy relationship looks like. It doesn't include revenge affairs and lying. I'm sorry but I honestly don't know what else to say. Please…get help.Elle
The noble thing to do is to make sure that your children don't pay for yours and your husbands' mistakes to the best of your ability. You can't control your husband but you can control yourself. Today you can choose to live a life that your children and you will be proud of. Maybe you can inspire change in you husband. It's time for both of you to create a stable life for the children you two have created.
I have a question, what happens if you have someone who thinks that they where cheated on by their husband but their husband never really cheated on them. How do you prove your innocence? My family could fall apart because of this, so I really need it fixed. The wife is a wreck doing a little drinking but mostly just being sad and thinking that it's over and the husband is sad but not as sad and messed up as the wife, he just wants to be happy and have the wife be happy.? What should they do? ?
They should get themselves to a marriage counsellor. No matter that he cheated/didn't cheat -- they clearly have issues in their marriage that need addressing, such as trust and communication. Run, don't walk.Elle
Hi Elle. I just spent a few hours reading alot of the stories and your replies. I would really like to talk to women who might in the same place as me or just help out with the horrible suspicions I have. But I'm not sure if I qualify for these blogs. The short version of my story is that I was in a relationship for only 4 years (not married). He just recently passed away quite suddenly and not only am I dealing with that, but unfortunately, have found out that he most likely was not faithfull to me. It is a much longer story, but is there anyone that has lost a husband and then found out he was having an affair(s)? I did just start councelling, but the times between each sessioon are two to three weeks and I just can't seem to function at all at the moment.
I'm so sorry for what you're going through. A complicated grief, for certain. I'm not sure if anyone on this site has shared a similar experience. Reminds me of The Pilot's Wife, a book about a man dying and the wife learning he had another wife/child. Feel free to share your story here. We can certainly learn from each other, even when our circumstances might be different. The feelings are often the same.Elle
I filed for divorce because my husband has been having a affair over 3 years with the same person and he says it is over !!!! but i'm not sure if i want to believe him ,he wants to reconcile ... I'm not sure what to do ...
Nobody can tell you what's right for you…only what was right for us. Whether or not you reconcile is up to you. Some women simply can't move past the deception. Others can, though it's tough. A three-year affair is a lot to move through. Feel free to share your story here. Even writing it out might help clarify your feelings.And certainly feel free to give yourself time. Finding out about an affair turns our world upside down. It's not the ideal time to be making life-altering decisions.Hang in there. No matter what you choose, please trust that with time (and work), you'll get past the pain.Elle
Iam being pulled in all directions i want to believe him but it is so hard and he does not want to talk about it and all he says is you did this (Divorce) ,but yet he wants to reconcile !, iam worried that he has her in the back ground thinking that if i drop the divorce he will do what he has been doing . Iam affraid he just wants me to drop the divorce because he knows he will have to pay alimony and i have started therapy for myself.
It's complicated...in 2011 I found out that my H was having an "emotional" affair. He told me about it because he had been seen with the OW by a friend of mine and he knew I would find out. We worked for two years to reconcile. This past August I finally felt I was ready to commit to him and renew our vows. I also felt ready to write a letter of forgiveness to the OW, up to that point I had no contact with her. I got a letter back from her and she told me that my H had told her about another sexual affair that he had in 2010. I confronted him and he admitted it. I have of course been on the emotional roller coaster that we all ride and I immediately contacted this OW and asked her if he had mentioned any others to her. She replied he had mentioned a secretary at one time. He is denying that there are any others but I am looking back through the years and seeing some behavior that is making me wonder if he has been having relationships outside our marriage all along. He is telling me there were no others but I'm not buying it. I want my marriage to continue, we will be married 30 years in June, but I do not trust that he is being honest. Am I crazy?
The craziest thing about dealing with betrayal is the we end up wondering if we're crazy simply because we're dealing with craziness. No you are NOT crazy. You are applying logic and honesty to a situation in which deception and dishonesty were the norm.There might be no way to ever truly know if your husband is telling the truth. But what he needs to absolutely understand is that without total transparency and honesty, it will be almost impossible for you to truly re-commit to your marriage. Once trust has been destroyed, it takes a long time for it to be rebuilt. And that requires a steady commitment to total honesty. As long as you have those niggling suspicions, you'll have a tough time.Perhaps the best thing to do is to find a marriage counsellor and create a "disclosure" meeting, where he can tell you everything within the context of a supportive environment. Some others have written disclosure letters, though I generally think it's good to have a third-party there to keep things from getting ugly. Finding out about years of deception can be crippling. Trust your instincts. Try and get your husband to understand that those suspicions exist and they need to be put to rest or your marriage won't get back on track. Even with his disclosure, you might find yourself needing time to determine whether you want to continue in your marriage. Please keep reading here. Many of us have dealt with what you're dealing with (including me).Elle
My husband just came home from a year-long overseas tour. In June, I found out he had a sexual affair and an emotional one (two different women). We started working through it. In Sept-Oct, when I was very angry (and he was still overseas), he met another woman and began yet another affair. He is now home and says he wants his family. He has cut off ties with everyone (as far as I know) and understands he has to be completely transparent. But, I just keep realizing more and more things he lied about and all the great lengths he went to just to cover his tracks. I'm wondering if I can ever believe or trust him again. And while I truly love him and want our family, I just don't know if I can live like this. And I know I should just take it slow and see what happens...but, the problem is...we're moving in a few weeks. Or, at least, we're suppose to. He's being transferred and I have to decide (like, now) if the kids and I are moving with him. I'm tempted to just take a leap of faith and move, so we can at least give our marriage a chance. But, I also don't want him to think he "got away with it." I'm just completely heartbroken...and confused. Has anyone else had to make a big life decision in the middle of this mess? Any advice? And thank you ALL for everything being shared here.
PS,I hope your husband can understand that you need the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The little lies and omissions just trigger that initial shock and pain over and over again. As a military guy, perhaps he can understand a military analogy. It's like surviving a bomb…and then responding with as much terror to much smaller bombs afterward. If there had just been one big bomb…and then nothing but reconstruction, you wouldn't feel such setbacks.In any case, this whole site is based on the premise that it's possible to rebuild a marriage after an affair. But whether you want to take such a leap of faith so early in recovery is a tough one. Can you delay? Let him go ahead and then follow him as you continue to see improvement and insight on his side? As for the "get away with it" stuff, that's something most of us feel. Like our spouse doesn't get "punished" enough when we reconcile. You need to let go of it. This isn't about punishment but reconciliation should require a whole lot of hard work on his part. He gives up a right to his privacy (those with nothing to hide, hide nothing), he spends a lot of time in counselling getting clear on his own issues and he has to live with the fact that he betrayed a loyal friend. I wouldn't want to live with that.Elle
Am I Over reacting??. I found a text on my Husbands phone on Oct 20,2012 from a woman. I immediately confronted him and he confessed all the nasty details. He had put an ad on craigslist in Mar of 2012 and she answered. Turns out they knew of each other as my husband had coached her son in hockey several years before. They began a sexual affair within 3 weeks of discovering who each other was. I, like the majority here was in shock. We began to reconcile because he was also distraught about what he had done. Then on Dec 19, 2012 I found a couple emails from an old friend from high school dating back to July 2010. Someone he has not seen in 26 years. They were sweet notes from him, flattering her etc... I went crazy!!!! I smashed his Iphone with a hammer and almost thru it at him as well. I then sent the married whores husband an email with all the nasty details of the times and places his wife had sex with my husband, including their daughters house when she was away for the weekend. I told my husband he had to do a polygraph because I didn't believe a word coming out of his mouth anymore. So he agreed to go as a requirement of staying together. (we have been married 25 years). As the date got closer to going he has a breakdown one night and tells me there is more...I think to myself, this is not going to end well. I am either going to kill him, or me, or both because at this point I am so furious and don't even recognize this person. The rest of the story comes out. Its worse. He has had 6 BJ, and HJ from anonymous men he found on a disgusting web site. He also had a HJ from a rub and tug.("massage parlour"). He tells me now I know it all and it basically began with a ton of porn watching in 2009,2010, then the EA with the old friend from July-Dec 2010. Then the men all through 2011 and finally the married whore from Mar-Oct 2012.He is open about all the details I have asked and is in complete remorse. My problem is this.. He swears the married whore( that he was having sex with in our van in public places,) has NEVER been in our house. If she had, we would be moving, I would sell the house immediately. In May 2013, I outed the whore on Cheaterville and she finds out in Sept 2013. She then outs my husband on the same site and states that he brings women to his house when his wife is out of town or working. Now I know she wants to hurt both him and I very badly because he dumped her as soon as I found out. So she likely was just lying to cause a problem but I can't stop wondering if it might be true.When I told him I wanted him to go for another polygraph he got very defensive and saying he has be totally transparent, and honest with me. After a few weeks I mention it again and he says he will go if its what I need to move forward. Am I over reacting? Or should I follow through and make him go?
No, I don't think you are over-reacting. And I wonder if he's hoping you're bluffing re. the polygraph.However, if you believe it's truly over and he's seeking treatment for sex addiction (which is certainly sounds like he is a sex addict), why do you need more details. Where the acts took place aren't really the issue, are they? Are you perhaps looking for a reason to keep distance between you out of fear? I know how frightening it is to learn what you've learned. My husband also went from anonymous women to men. He learned through treatment from sex addiction that this is fairly common. But it shocked the hell out of me.But will selling your home really change anything? I understand your fear of triggers. But triggers will fade with time.I'm suggesting, given what you've written, that you're a pretty impulsive person, especially when you feel threatened. And I'm not against the polygraph in order to determine that he's still "clean". But if it's to figure out whether or not to sell your home, it seems like you're kinda missing the point.My advice? Insist that he seek counselling/12-step program for sex addiction. Get counselling yourself to come to terms with all this. And give yourself a bit of time to let the dust settle. And then figure out about the big decisions, re. your marriage and your home.Elle
Thank you Elle for the common sense response. You are right. I doesn't matter where the acts took place, I guess I just want to know he has not lied to me about Anything since the last polygraph. When this was first discovered my H went to a counsellor in another city an hour away that specialised in sex addiction. I really had no idea what I was dealing with at the time. That counsellor after 3 visits told my H that he was "sexually acting out" for the past 3 years but because he had no history of this and was wanting to stay married and get help to figure out why he did this, then he wasn't truly a sex addict. So my H switched therapists to someone local who is not a SA specialist and goes once a month. We also go to a marriage counsellor together once a month, and I have my own therapist. For me I am still confused as to how he could do what he did and still be the man I married. For most of the 3 years he was having affairs he was also still a kind and loving husband and father. He hid it all so well that I had no idea. Hence the lack of trust on my part. I just keep thinking, if he could hide it so well once then he could do it again.
H'mmm…your husband's former therapist sounds a bit odd to me. A sex addict is someone for whom sex becomes a way of avoiding uncomfortable feelings. Whether or not someone does it long term or wants to stay married has nothing to do with it. It's a way of self-medicating and avoiding intimacy. Like any addiction, there are different levels -- some people have done virtually everything, others engage only in porn or chatrooms. But if sex is being used to avoid feelings, then it certainly is on the path to addiction. Sexual anorexia (avoiding sex) is sort of the flip side of the same coin. Again, I urge both of you to read more about it and see if it fits. My husband had sought treatment for sex addiction before I even knew he was acting out. So wanting to stay married and seek treatment doesn't mean he wasn't one. It meant he was an addict who wanted help before he lost everything. And yes, it is confusing. These guys become masters at compartmentalizing, which makes it almost easy to lie. They convince themselves that nobody is getting hurt, that they "deserve" this, that the rules don't apply to them. But behind the delusions and sense of entitlement lies a deep and profound shame and fear. Once they seek help, it becomes easier to trust them because they're (and those around them such as in a 12-step group) are so invested in their recovery. They develop a plan to help them should they feel tempted again. They have "rules" about what they can/can't engage in, including how long they can look at a woman before it crosses the line. But it works. It gave my husband his life back…and me my husband back.Elle
I have been married for 32 years. 7 years into the marriage I found hicky marks on my husbands neck that I knew I had not put there. I confronted him and he admitted that he had been having an affair with a daycare worker at my daughters daycare. My world came crashing down around me as I was about to tell him I was pregnant for the third time. Of course he blamed me for everything and while in couples counseling he admitted that he believed that our marriage had been a mistake shortly after we got married. We worked on issues he said the affair was over but later she informed him she was pregnant with his child. Since he was in school at the time I paid for the abortion and we went back to counseling. We have had our ups and downs since but somehow I felt pretty good until about 5 years ago when he became very stressed, not wanting to talk with me only to me. Not wanting to get involved in anything around the house. Snapping at me, ignoring me (walking around the house on weekend with his radio plugged into his ears. It got so bad that he would sleep with his radio plugged into his head. There was no touching, kissing hugging I felt total neglect yet he wanted his sex every Sunday morning. He said his work and job were awful, he would come home very late saying he had to work late to get project done, eat dinner and go directly to bed with his radio. If I tried to talk with him he would be short with me,snap at me or pick on me about something I did not do right (his way). I had become totally numb and alone. The Friday after Christmas I was in the local mall shopping when I saw him walking and talking with a woman. I came up behind them and said hi what are you doing...needles to say she sped off into Victoria Secret and he said he was just looking at the lights. We parted, I turned around to see him go into Victoria Secret and start texting. I followed him in came up behind him again and said make sure you buy her something nice, OK? After he got home he tried to act like nothing was wrong, I miss read what I saw and just leave it alone. Having been through this before I did not leave it alone. Not only is he having an affair but it is with the same woman as he had the affair many years ago. He said it has been going on for about 2-3 years. Could not tell me exactly when... He said though he had been good for 20 years..I said wow let me give you a gold star for that one please. Once a cheat always a cheat? always a lier? My kids are grown my youngest is 25...He stands to loose a lot I still want to protect my kids even though they are grown adults...I don't know if there is anything left to go to counseling for. I know I don't want to make any big decisions right away, and we have not really sat down to talk about our options. But I am thinking legal separation...I talk with an attorney to find out what my options may be... What I can't wrap around my head yet is that it is the same person as before..and how can two selfish, arrogant people cause so much damage to a family who do not deserve such pain and disrespect.
Anonymous,His behaviour of you has been emotionally abusive. And he's continuing to ask you to reward his "20 years" rather than acknowledging the incredible pain he's caused?? That's crazy-making.Don't let him twist this around. He cheated. That's the end of it. Unless he's incredibly remorseful and willing to whatever it takes to help you heal (and to heal himself and learn why he would do such a thing) then he's a really bad gamble as a husband. I think legal separation is a wise move.In the meantime, don't try and understand how people can be so self-centred and cruel. There is no sane reason and you're trying to apply decency and kindness to an inherently selfish situation. Better to focus your energy on how you can heal yourself and remove yourself from two toxic people.Elle
My husband and I have been married for 7yrs, have three kids, the youngest is 2. My HB first had an affair 3yrs ago, I found out about it and he apologised and agreed to stop the affair and reconcile. I was pregnant with my second child at the time. 4 months later I found out that he was continuing with the affair. He apologies, I just had my baby and dId not have energy to fight. A year later I found out that he had sex with some girl. I apologised and confessed that it was a one night stands. He promised that he will never do it again. A few months ago, he asked for a divorce, he told me that he wants a fresh start. He is unhappy in our marriage and wants a new life. After a lot of discussions, we agreed to work on our marriage ourselves as he does not believe in counselling. This were still not perfect but we were taking it one day at a time. Imagine my shock when I found out a few days ago that he is having an affair. It got so serious that he considered divorcing me for his mistress. Now he says he does not love her anymore, she was a mistake. He wants to stay with us specially for the sake of the kids. I am not sure what I want anymore.
I can imagine you wouldn't know what you want. He has lied repeatedly and revealed himself to be a pretty horrible husband and father.I'll be honest: These guys who don't "believe" in counselling are generally the same guys who just keep cheating. They don't "believe" in counselling because they're terrified that they'll have to answer some pretty hard questions…and have to take a good look at themselves and they know they aren't going to like what they see.I don't know of anyone who has survived betrayal without the help of a really good therapist. Whether or not you stay with him (and unless he was doing everything -- and I mean EVERYTHING possible to ensure that he will never ever do this again to you and his kids -- I wouldn't give him a second thought), I think counselling would also help you heal more quickly and get clearer on what you do want. Betrayal is traumatizing. It threatens our sense of safety in the world. It's important that you understand that his cheating had nothing to do with you. Something in him is broken and he's seeking it in other people -- distracting himself from his own issues. You're not doing your kids any favours by staying with someone who doesn't have enough respect for their mother to be honest…again and again.Elle
Hi Elle,I only found out my husband has cheated on me for the second time a few days ago. I was shattered. It has been two years since the first affair and it is still the same woman.It was in December 2011 when I first discovered my husband cheated on me. I saw the text message he sent to her expressing his love. He told me that they only ever exchange messages and that there was nothing more to it. I naively believed him then but later found out that their relationship was far more than just that when her husband (yes, she is married) caught them and bashed the crap out of him. I thought he would have learnt from that experience and stopped the affair but they continued seeing each other secretly for another 6 months. I gave him the ultimatum then because I could not continue living my life that way anymore and threatened to expose them to her husband. It was then that the affair stopped, not immediately though.We agreed to rebuild our marriage after that. I chose to stay because we had young children. And now two years after I find myself in the same situation again and it is the same woman. I confronted my husband and he confessed that he initiated it April last year because he was curious to find out how she was doing (apparently she is trying to reconcile with her husband too) and one conversation led to another.I am completed shattered, Elle. I look back and realised that for the past 2 years of trying to rebuild our marriage that I was the only one doing the hard yards whilst he just continued living his life the way he wanted to.I do not know what to do. It hurts so much. I desperately want to be happy and do not want to go through this again but I do not want my children to grow up without a father and I do still love my husband very much.Elle, do you think my husband deserves another chance (God knows how many I have given him already). Is it possible to fix this marriage? Can this man really be trusted again? HELP!
I'm so sorry for what you're going through.The only time I advocate for second chances is when a spouse has hit bottom and recognized that he stands to lose everything that matters and is willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild his marriage. Then and only then. Otherwise it's a recipe for heartbreak. What do you think? Is he willing to be totally transparent and give you access to all his devices/passwords? Is he willing to undergo marital counselling to learn how to rebuild a relationship decimated by deceit?If not, spare yourself the prolonged agony. Your kids won't grow up "without" a father, they'll grow up (as roughly half of children do) with parents who don't live together. It doesn't mean you can't each be a wonderful parent.I'm not suggesting you divorce. I'm just suggesting that you make sure he deserves that second chance if you choose to give him one.Elle
Thanks so much Elle for responding.I have yet to have a discussion with him as to what I want out of him to help me feel secure about our relationship if I do give him the chance. At this stage I cannot even think of anything that would make me feel secure again.I do not think he wants to undergo counselling as I did suggest he consider seeing a counsellor on his own to help him resolve the issue he may have. His reaction was "how good are they besides scamming off your money".I will sit down and talk to him and give you an update :)
How do I share my story?
H'mmm…I thought there was a box to write in and then hit "publish" but maybe, because I'm the moderator, the site looks different to me. Can anyone tell me what they did to post their story? Sorry to sound like such a dolt. :)Elle
To the other Anon,I don't have much patience for the "they're just scamming me" school of thought. These people have years of training in how to help people deal with serious traumas and addictions and deeply rooted issues. To dismiss every single one of them is like saying all lawyers are crooks and all doctors are quacks and all mechanics are cheaters. I suspect it's his way of protecting himself…but I certainly don't think it's helpful. There are a lot of people who believe that seeking help for personal issues is a sign of weakness. But most of us who know better understand it's a sign of strength to seek help with problems that are bigger than we can reasonably cope with. From the sounds of it, he's kinda screwing up his own life, not to mention yours.I personally would not have stayed with my husband if he refused help. As it turns out, my "tough" husband who, like your husband, thought psychologists were for other people, ended up recognizing how deeply abusive his childhood was and how it was continuing to affect his actions decades later. It helped him develop a relationship with his mother who, prior to his seeking therapy, he could barely be in the same room with her. It helped him with his job because he no longer simply resented things, he learned to ask for what he wanted…and often received it. So overall, it improved his whole life, including being better able to relate to our kids and be a better father. He's now a total fan of psychologists. Elle
I am 66 years old. My husband (also 66) and I have been married almost 45 years. 6 months ago today was “D-Day”. I discovered from emails on my husbands phone that he was having an affair. I thought my heart would explode! He was leaving the next day for a short trip so I decided not to confront him until I could consult with an attorney and with a marriage counselor. When he returned, I told him I had learned about his affair. First he denied it, then when I asked for the password to his secret email account, he realized I must know something and then admitted to cheating. I told him he needed to decide if he wanted to stay in the marriage or leave. He said he wanted to stay. I gave him a list of ‘rules of reconciliation’ that included our seeing a marriage counselor and ending his affair at once. He agreed to both. We began counseling almost immediately. But wait, it got the worse! During counseling I learned my husband not only had this affair, but had been cheating with 7 different women over the past 7 years. Never one at a time, always multiple women. He maintained a 5 year affair with one woman, a 3 year affair with a second woman, a 2 year affair with a two of them, and shorter affairs with 3 others, all during the same 7 years!!! He was having sex with one woman or another on average twice a month. And I (stupidly, foolishly) never suspected a thing!! I trusted him so completely that any hint of infidelity that might have drifted through my mind was immediately discarded as impossible. The pain and hurt and anger have been with me now almost every single minute of every day and night. I have cried so much I can’t believe I still have tears, but here they are again. BETRAYAL is all I can think about. Despite it all, I can’t help that I still love him so I made a decision to do everything I could to try to save our marriage. The first three months after D-Day were horrible. I couldn’t eat or sleep. I couldn’t concentrate or focus enough to even read a magazine. How could he!!!??. I think I am attractive and in great shape for my age - I never let myself go even after 45 years of marriage. I am smart, and funny, and interesting. We had a good sex life. Why did he need all those women? What did I do to deserve this? What was wrong with our marriage? What was wrong with me? And to make it worse, during counseling he was so defensive, and he continued to lie about things. Those new lies just about drove me to the edge. He said he was “depressed” and that his depression was the reason he cheated. How can I believe that?? He still made the choice to cross the line. Even after his depression was gone he continued to cheat. In fact it seemed to escalate. He continues to say he “doesn’t know why he cheated”. Still, I am beginning now to see a little hope, a little light. During the second 3 months my husband seems to have decided to fully commit to our marriage. He has vowed out loud to demonstrate how much he loves and adores me, and how important it is for him to regain my trust and respect. And to give him credit, he is now the most amazing husband I could have ever asked for - attentive, loving, communicative, supportive. He declares he has no desire to cheat ever again. I don’t know what to believe! How can I trust this person? Is this for real? I have not made up my mind yet whether to stay or go. How long does it take to make this decision? How long does it take for the hurt and anger to dissipate? How will I know when I am safe? Will I EVER feel safe? If there are other older women going through this, I would love to hear from you and your experience. Did you stay or go? What helped you decide?
While I'm not an older woman (though I sure as hell feel like it some days!), I think the feelings you're experiencing are pretty universal. The whole "doesn't know why he cheated" thing always drives me a bit nuts. How can people be so un-self-aware? Don't they WANT to know? I couldn't imagine doing something so contrary to my own value system...and not doing everything in my power to figure out why I did it. I think the answers lie in the stories he was telling himself when he was cheating on you. What was he telling himself (that you couldn't be hurt if you didn't know? that he deserved a little pick-me-up? that life is short??) that made it okay for him to do something he'd promised he wouldn't do? Does he have any insight at all?The reason I ask is that it's hard for you to feel safe when you don't really understand what made you unsafe. It's like surviving a fire. If you can understand what caused the fire (smoking in bed, for example; faulty furnace) and can take steps to remove those hazards, you'll undoubtedly feel that another fire is less likely and therefore allow yourself to trust that you're safe. If, on the other hand, you don't know why the fire started and have no idea what to do to prevent it from happening again, you'll likely feel frightened and nervous and hyper vigilant about anything that looks/smells/sounds like fire again.I would insist that he seek counselling in order to get to the bottom of why he cheated. His promise to not cheat again isn't enough. It wasn't enough the first time (marriage vows and all that) so why should you trust him again. You need evidence that he's taking steps to ensure he doesn't go down that path again...and that he has a plan should he begin to feel tempted for whatever reason.As for your own feelings of hurt and anger...they do dissipate with time. But they dissipate a whole lot faster if you're able to see that he recognizes just how hurtful his actions were and takes steps to protect you from ever having to go through that again.Elle
Dear anon 66 yr old.I am an older woman as well. I am currently 59 and my husband is almost 67. It's been nearly 2 years since the first discovery for me and a year since the last D day discovery. You are not alone in your feelings. The experts say not to make any crucial decisions for the 1st year. I think that's wise advise now that I'm past that 1st year after final disclosure. Most of the time our husbands don't want to further hurt us with any other admissions after they have been found out. They think it will just cause more pain. Which is true, but not what is needed. We need full disclosure and you need to be the one to make the decision about how much detail you want. Keep in mind the more you know, the more you have to work through. However you need to know as much as you need to help you not wonder for the rest of your life if you've got the whole story. I'm a year out and I still think BETRAYAL everyday as well. But it's not as strong as it was and you will get through this. Please get the counseling and if possible get into a group specifically for betrayed wives. And if your husband is willing - he should be in a group for sex addiction. This is what my husband and I are doing and we are finally getting to where we can talk about things without (me) going nuclear. My husband and I have been married 38 years and he also had - a lot - of other women over a long period of time. There are a lot of reasons why they do what they have done - - and none of them make very much sense to most of us wives. You are in very good company here and Elle has such words of wisdom and counsel. Be kind to yourself and give yourself the gift of time to know what it is you really want. There is hope and there is help.
Elle and Barb,Thank you for your kind words - they mean so much. Elle, I love the fire metaphor. Barb it is nice to know you are there with a similar situation and took the time to write. I think I love you :-)My husband and I have been in couples counseling since D-Day. He insists he does "not know why" he cheated. He is not willing to explain except to say that he was depressed and his depression caused him to do this. There was no diagnosis of depression, and he seemed OK to me, and in any event from my perspective this does not seem to be the real reason, just an excuse to avoid responsibility and introspection. Or is it possible perhaps he knows exactly why and refuses to discuss it (or as he says, "go there")?? Why would he withhold this?My husband refuses to admit that he might have a sex addition. He insists that he does not so will not get counseling for it. Our counselor has been quiet on the subject. Do you recommend that I get individual counseling? This seems somewhat counter-productive to our current couples counseling. I don't know what to think!Again, thank you. It is wonderful to have a place to share.
It's hard for me to speculate why your husband may not want to disclose what was going on (assuming he understands) or why he doesn't want to pursue therapy. I know, for many people, therapy is frightening. They convince themselves it's for crazy people. That they don't need their head shrunk.My husband was one of those. It wasn't until he'd hit rock bottom and was given the choice to continue to make bad choices...or figure out how to make healthier ones. Given that your husband is in couples counselling, he's at least willing to accept that perhaps he doesn't know how to rebuild his marriage on his own.I don't see individual therapy as counter-productive at all. In fact, I would recommend it. For you to have a safe place to examine all the feelings that betrayal has triggered in you will only make your couples counselling move more quickly and be more productive. It certainly can't hurt (unless you get a counsellor who doesn't understand affairs and urges you to get past it, in which case, find another counsellor).Elle
Anon 66I agree 110% with Elle. I would just add that shame and denial are a big part of why some men don't think they've got a problem. I'm also not sure why your counselor hasn't brought up the sex addiction, but then I don't know how far along in counseling you guys are either. You might speak privately to the counselor and ask what their vision is for the future in moving you forward. I would just encourage you to trust the process. Sometimes we get in a hurry because we want our lives and marriages back and to feel normal as soon as possible. This is unfortunately not a quick process. My husband fed me trickle truth for months and it was like prying it out of him with a crow bar. I exploded regularly, which I don't recommend.... However, he finally did figure out when he hit rock bottom that the full and painful owning of all that he had done over the course of the last 27 years of our 38 yr marriage was absolutely necessary for HIS healing. He could not be free of the bondage until he owned it. And he is free of the guilt and shame that covered his 'other' life and infected both our lives and our family. Keep the faith. We are all here for you.
Thank you both for your comments. I spoke to our couples counselor yesterday about my having individual sessions and he was not willing to do so himself since he is committed to working on the marriage with us as a couple, so I will pursue an external counselor for myself. I am delicately attempting to move my husband in that direction as well, but he is resistant. He had about 2 years of individual counseling 3-ish years ago for what he said was work-related depression, but he NEVER mentioned his infidelities during counseling in those two years so it is obviously quite difficult for him to be introspective about this. Barb, you are a year or so further along than I am in this painful process and I so appreciate your input. I have a couple of questions - and Elle, any of your experience is invited as well:I find that I am exploding regularly as you did, Barb (things build up and the volcano erupts). It seems impossible to hold in the anger - what did you find detrimental about this, and what did you do to prevent the explosions? My husband admits to only the last 7 years (out of 44 years of marriage) of infidelities, but I suspect this has been going on longer than that. Did your husband admit to the length of time right away, or did you need the crowbar? Same question for the number of women? Right now, the woman he had the longest affair with continues to contact him after we told her not to do so. In our last request 3 months ago for her to cease, we said we would contact 'authorities' (ie restraining order) if she continued contacting him. This week after 3 months of no communication, she sent my husband at least two emails (that I know of). I would like to proceed with filing a restraining order, but my husband prefers to either ignore her completely, or send one more 'cease and desist' email. What do you think would be the best solution?Thank you and everyone here for your sincere empathy and support. I am trying to find a live support group in my area, but so far there seems to be nothing. Perhaps I will start one!!
Dear anon66,First let me say that I'm so sorry you are still having to deal with an OW. My first reaction to your question of whether or not to file a restraining order is YES - absolutely! But giving it more thought however, you might be wise to ask yourself some questions first, such as what you think or perceive the outcome of a restraining order would be. Is this woman married and if so does her husband know? If she is and he does not know, I would consider telling him. Secondly, I can only speak to my own situation and what happened to me. I by no means have any grounds to give anyone else advise. Betrayal hurt goes very deep and I still have times of falling into a pot hole occasionally. Triggers are something we all have to learn how to handle. But by all means give yourself a little grace where exploding is concerned. This is trauma and you go in and out of shock. In my case I heard it over and over again that I had every right to be angry. But then when I would explode the counselor would be very concerned and he kept telling me that my anger outbursts were a sign of something deeper. As I'm coming to the 'other side' of those first days, weeks and months, I can say that I have learned what he said was true. Having said that though, sometimes you just have to blow a gasket otherwise there can be many more leaks everywhere else and then everything will come apart. We need to let off the steam that has built up in our pressure cooker. Your husband needs to see and hear your pain. Don't be too hard on yourself. I posted my story on this wonderful site that Elle has provided as a result of her own betrayal. I would encourage you to go to the page heading "Finding Out". I posted Dec. 17. There's 4 sections!! It might answer some of your questions. The only other 'advise' I can give is to JOURNAL. As crazy as it sounds journaling has helped me to release some of that steam that used to explode. We need some regulators. Something to slow us down. This is the role of journaling. It slows us down, allows us to think and gives us a chance to become more self aware. Journal notes chart our progress over time and allow us a wonderful map of our journey. And then, read, read, read. I have a whole list of books and a couple of web sites that are awesome. If you want, I'm more than willing to post them.
As an 'older' woman of 63, I have been married for 33 years and found out just over a year ago that my husband was having an affair with an ex girlfriend. We were working things out between us and the last year has contained many wonderful moments as well as the no infrequent 'explosions' you describe. However a couple of months ago found out that he had another affair with the same woman over 18 years ago and that they have remained in touch since then until last year. I feel my emotions have gone backwards and I have to start the repairing process all over again. The need for transparency and disclosure does not appear to belong in most cheating husband's vocabulary as they scramble to hide the extent of their cheating, not realising that this makes an ability to trust again even harder. I am assured there has been no one else but do not know whether I am being told the truth even now. This week as I go for tests to see if I have cancer I really need his support and he is there for me but I cannot feel secure.
Dear older 63,I have totally been where you are, except for the cancer part. I hope your tests are negative and I know you really need support. My husband and I were 9 months into our 'recovery' when things started not adding up and then I actually caught my husband in the back of whore's van. My re-set button had been pushed many, many times before that awful day with trickle truth. But that particular day the re-set button was set back a long way. The rug of your world has just been jerked out from under you yet again. In my husbands case of actually being caught with his pants literally down (and my adult son saw this as well) that was his 'come to Jesus moment'. He knew at that moment that he had just sacrificed his whole family for a moment of pleasure. It wasn't worth it....and my husband was finally broken. When it was all said and done and I finally had the entire story it encompassed the past 27 years and 12 sexual encounters - either emotional/and or sexual. Many many sex chats with women online. I can tell you that it's very hard to know if you have been told the truth......even when you really do think you know the truth. You keep expecting another shoe to drop. I'm in a program specifically for betrayed wives and what I am learning is invaluable. One thing I can share is to not believe your husbands words.....believe his actions. If you and your husband have not been to counseling, please, please seek someone to counsel with. It's very important to your physical health to be able to release some of your emotion and have a place to put it, so to speak. Counseling can give you tools to help you through the explosions. Above all take good care of yourself. God never said life would be fair or we would be free of challenges....but He did say He would be there to walk beside us and carry us when we feel as though we can't go on. Please let us know about your tests, and rest assured that prayers are being sent your way.
Dear Anon 'older' woman 63. OMG I am so very sorry to hear you have to deal with possible cancer on top of the infidelity issues. I will be thinking of you and hope your husband is present for you every minute. Please let us know how it goes. - Anon 66 year old
Thank you for your replies and the concern you show. I should have test results in a couple of days and my husband is being there for me and is showing all the concern I would expect. However the comment about 'waiting for the other shoe to drop' is very apt. Truth is what I want but I can never be sure that I have it. Rebuilding our marriage has reversed back a significant amount with the latest revelations. Counselling is something that I now feel needs to happen once my health issues are clearer.
Anon 63. The good news is that I don't have cancer. However I did have a rather large growth removed which cold have turned malignant but which was caught in time. I have to return for 3 monthly check ups but all should be well. I found out about my husband's affair shortly after he had emergency heart surgery so I can partly understand those who only found out after their partner died. I did point this out to him and he was stunned to think what this discovery would have done to me. I really think that the 'distancing' of emotions during an affair is a strong factor and that the male psyche is totally focussed on what they want ie. sex with another partner at any cost- without any thought about the effect on others. We shall continue trying to rebuild. This site does help me realise that there are so many common factors and behaviour patterns after the discovery of an affair and that it is normal to 'see-saw' through mistrust and suspicion. I hope I now have the full story but I will have to wait and see. Thank you for your messages of concern and well wishes.
I'm so glad that the cancer was just a scare. As if you don't have enough to deal with!And I'm always thrilled when I see women on this site supporting each other. We need each others' shoulders and compassion and warmth. Yay for all of you!Elle
I have been with my S/O for 12 years & I just now discovered yet again that he is being unfaithful. Looking back I can see a long pattern and realize most of the time of our relationship and then marriage he has been cheating. I am coming to grips that this is not a relationship this is me repeatedly allowing someone to walk all over me. I am done and am now just pulling the strings to unravel everything.
Anonymous,I think you're wise to move forward without him. Some people will simply not change...or at least not soon enough to make it worth staying with them. Let him have his craziness and move on. I do urge you to heal yourself from this so that you can recognize unhealthy relationships. Being in one for a long time can make us less aware of what they really look like. You deserve happy.Elle
The first time I discovered my husband was cheating was in 2008. My second child was 4 months old and my husband was acting really weird when I called him on his way home from the airport from a business trip. After her got home he ran out to run an errand. While he was gone his phone rang. I noticed a local number and something made me google the number. I had known there were issues in our marriage and he had been acting VERY strange the past year. I googled the number and it turned out to be an ESCORT. I could see her ad, her photo....... and it was the most sickening, devastating moment of my marriage. When he walked in the door I was sitting at the computer desk in the kitchen with the ad open. I looked at him and said "HOW COUD YOU?" and I have no idea what happened after that. I'm pretty sure he denied it at first. Then he was on his knees saying "I did NOT cheat on you, I did NOT cheat on you" and crying. I was paralyzed. I remember being crumbled to the floor while he told me that he had lost his way and that he had called to "find out how it works" and then chickened out and hung up. He was beyond remorseful. All I fet was SICK. SADLY we had a house full of people flying in the very next day for our sons Baptism and I was trapped in my own private HELL. I had to pretend we were this happy family while all the time feeling this sick warped sense of reality. Who had I married? And then I began to blame myself. I had focused too much on the kids. I had known we had issues but not done anything to fix it. He wanted his ego boosted by a blow job from another woman......to make him feel like a KING is what he said. The thing I should mention here is he was turned OFF by me while pregnant and nursing. The first 15 months of our marriage he never once initiated sex............ and when we did have it I felt like he was uncomfortable. Eventually I stopped initiating. That was only one of many issues in our marriage but the fact he had called this woman and denied ever having done anything I clung to and believed. We went to therapy and I thought things were a bit better but I felt traumatized every week when he left on business or was on his Ipad at night.....I felt sickened having sex with him because I would imagine him with various women in my mind. I felt turned off by who he was. I lost all respect. At the same time I blamed myself.......... fast forward to 4 years later. He literally had stopped looking at me. No eye contact, spent all his time on the IPAD....... and was acting different during sex. Referring to me as "baby" and talking in a weird voice if he was drunk during sex. One day I went through his phone and saw a number he had called. Wrote it down and forgot about it. Just before Thanksgiving I found it in a pile of papers and googled it. AGAIN it went to an escort........... one located where he traveled for business. IRONICALLY once again we had family in town and I could not confront him/make a scene. I was trapped in a living hell of hiding my hurt. I confronted him and turns out he had a voice mail in his wiped clean phone that he missed from a DIFFERENT girl. He was in pure denial saying he got a RUSH from calling them and demeaning them by asking what they would do for money. A year later we've moved to a different state and he is sticking by his story but I am tortured by nightmares finding out the truth. I'm in therapy and it is almost pointing out I married someone I don't know. He is a better husband and I feel the 100% change in him but I can't trust that this won't happen again. Some of the driving factors seem to be beyond any need I can meet. I don't feel hopeful that we can make it long term. And I'm here still for my children mostly....... :(
Anonymous,Whether or not your husband is actually having sex with these excerpts, his behaviour is risky and indicative that there's something going on in his mind. My guess is he's watching a lot of porn, which quite literally changes our brain's wiring, making real-life sex difficult and often disappointing. In order to rebuild the trust in your marriage, there needs to be full disclosure of everything he's been doing. There's simply no other way. Given that he doesn't think he's done anything really wrong, that's going to be tough. But I think you, at least, need to get to see therapist to talk through this with someone experienced in recognizing what's going on. And I would also insist that he see someone. Nobody crank calls escorts unless they're 14-years-old.Elle
Help. Nearly a year ago, I discovered that my husband had been having an affair. Over the course of several weeks, I uncovered the truth, which was that he had been hiring prostitutes (earlier in our relationship), watching porn and trying to meet up with random women on sex sites (often engaging in cyber sex). This had been going on (on and off) for nearly all of our relationship, which was 15 years. Needless to say, it was the most devastating time of my life, made more difficult by the fact that we had a 7-month-old baby. (I actually wrote some of my story here back then.) After a brief separation, we reconciled once he got himself into therapy, started attending sex addict group meetings, and I felt that there was a future in the relationship. We have worked really hard over the past year, and are still seeing a joint therapist. Today, I was at his work and while he was out of the room, for some reason I checked his internet history. I found that he had been looking up the woman I caught him in an affair with nearly a year ago. When he came back into the room, I asked what was going on. He confessed that he had created a new Facebook account and had messaged her, asking if she still thought about him. He hadn't received a reply, and had shut down the account, told his therapist and his fellow group members (but not me). I don't actually care what he was doing; the point is that I feel he has destroyed all the trust we have built up over the past year. What is the point of a relationship without trust? He swears there is nothing else, but I have heard all that before, and although I want to believe him, I am struggling to believe that this was the only time he acted out over the past year. I should also say that we had a brief setback a couple of months into the reconciliation, when I discovered he had been looking at pictures of attractive female friends on Facebook. It seems like a small thing, but I found it unacceptable in light of what had happened. He agreed and was really apologetic, and seemed to understand that it was trust, not what actually happened, that was at the heart of the issue (it would have been so different if he'd confessed it, for instance).To make matters worse, I am currently pregnant with our second child (which was unplanned). Our first is still only 19 months old. The thought of raising two children as a single parent terrifies me, but how can I continue a relationship with someone who can't be trusted? What would you do in this situation?In all other respects, he is a wonderful partner. He is a fantastic, hands-on father, and our son absolutely adores him. He is really helpful around the house and is always offering to do stuff and suggesting I take it easy. We were working hard at connecting through our therapy sessions, and I felt cautiously optimistic about the future.I just can't believe I have found myself back here again :(
I'm so sorry for all that you've had to go through. And I know how devasting it is to dare to think the worst it over, only to discover it's still happening. With addiction, as you no doubt know, relapse is common. And though it sounds as if your husband came clean with his group, there needs to also be some mechanism to ensure that you don't feel cut out of his recovery. You need to be careful to ensure though that you're not managing his recovery. But if there was some mechanism whereby he could tell you if he'd slipped, it would reduce the shock and fear when you stumbled onto it. As you note, it's less WHAT he was doing than that he had hidden it.You ask "how can I stay in a relationship with someone who can't be trusted?" The truth is, he can't be. He knows that. You even know that. He's an addict. They're the world's least trustworthy people unless they're in a program where they're learning to control their impulses. His program is his lifeline. As long as he's working his program, he's far far less likely to relapse. It's all still quite new for both of you so there are definitely going to be hurdles to clear. It would certainly help you if you understood the nature of addiction and was kept better informed about how he's feeling about his own recovery (ie. a confession). It's important that you begin to feel safe in the relationship, even with the acknowledged challenges of being with an addict. Could your couples therapy be a place where you discuss his challenges and your challenges and determine how to meet them together?I don't ever want to encourage anyone to stay in a relationship they don't want to be in. But I sense you do want this relationship -- you just want it without the early difficulties of wrestling an addiction to the ground.I know addiction from the sidelines. It's so hard. It's so easy to feel disempowered and out of control. Because you CAN'T control his behaviour. But you can control yours. The more you can get really clear on your own ability to navigate your life -- to trust your own instincts and your ability to survive -- the safer you'll feel. The better you'll be able to detach from his struggles. You can get through this. It sounds as if your husband is a decent guy mightily struggling. That doesn't mean you have to stay with him. It does mean he might be worth staying with.Elle
Thank you so much for your response, Elle. It helps to hear from people who "get it", because sexual addiction is such an unknown for most people. The thing is, I didn't feel cut out of his recovery before. He would come home from therapy and group meetings and tell me all about it - or so I thought. In the beginning when I asked him what would happen if he felt like acting out again, he would say "I just can't ever imagine doing that again". Of course, that made me feel uncomfortable, but I think it was actually the truth at that point. Later on, he said that he would contact someone in his group and tell me. Of course, that is much easier said than done. I keep thinking back on the past few months and wondering if I should have pushed him more about this and whether that would have made a difference. But *I* didn't cause this. These weren't *my* choices.His recovery was held up in the beginning I believe by seeing a therapist who didn't think he was an addict. I thought that was good news at the time, but he's had a lifetime of this behaviour and is seemingly unable to control it, so I don't think she was right. He started seeing another therapist a couple of months ago who treated him as an addict and supported his work in group meetings. He also hadn't started on the steps AT ALL, despite buying a book about them, and that bothered me - but I resisted saying anything for a long time because I thought his recovery really had to come from within him. I still believe that.You're right that I did want this relationship. I tried really, really hard to make it work. But, at this point I am completely over it. I cannot see a way back from this. I am terrified about the prospect of raising two young children on my own (especially when the new baby arrives), but the alternative just seems so much worse - being in a relationship with someone who I cannot trust, ever. I told him last time that I never wanted to be in this position again, and he swore he would never do it to me again. And yet here I am. I'm not going to keep going back for more. It's abuse, and I deserve far, far better. This time, I'm not wasting time on trying to find out everything I don't know. I simply don't care. He betrayed my trust again - that is all I need to know. My focus now is looking after myself and my child. I know there are going to be some really hard times ahead. But one day, I'll look back on this (like I did the last time), and it will all be a bad dream, and I'll be amazed I got through it (yet again).Anna
Anna,Yes, you will get through this. I hope you'll keep us posted. And I hope, for the sake of your kids, that their dad will wrestle his demons to the ground.Elle
My husband cheated on me the second time, I just found out this valentines day, and I still feel that I love him and can't be away from him, I feel like a crazy person even after he did it to me again and I still want him, but yes I don't trust him. Isn't it gonna make him feel that he can keep cheating on me and I will still show love for him no matter what he does?? Will this not give me encouragement?
Anonymous,An affair can sometimes trigger that feeling of "can't be away from him" but I think it's important for you to ask just why you feel so terrified of losing this guy. He's cheated on you. Twice. Why aren't you absolutely furious with him? You gave me a second chance and he blew it. Why? What is it about HIM (and this is on him, not you) that allows him to function with no moral code? Does he have a moral code? I'd urge you to look into co-dependence and see if it sounds like you. You deserve someone who values you and, if he messes up, does everything he can to ensure that he makes up for it and never does it again. Who doesn't want to hurt you. Yes, if you let this go without any real commitment on his part to change (and I don't mean promises, I mean actual actions, such as seeking therapy), you can expect more of the same. You don't deserve this. But you need to believe that you don't deserve this. And then demand better.Elle
Thank goodness I found this website. I was starting to feel like I was going to lose it and all the posts and stories are keeping me sane.Here's my story: My husband cheated on my 6 years ago with a co-worker. We weren't married, but in a long term committed relationship at the time. It sucked. We got through it, stronger than ever, yadda, yadda. We got married almost 2 years ago when I actually finally was feeling totally free of pain of the infidelity. I found out in September he cheated on me again. The first time I found out from the other woman more than year after the fact. Honestly, for the first one I knew it was going on deep down, but didn't want to admit it. This time I was completely blindsided. We were (I thought) very happy. The only thing is that his job takes him out of town a lot, especially in the summer. The other woman is an ex-girlfriend of his and someone I know he had a pretty deep connection to but she (get this!) cheated on him all those years ago and got pregnant with another guy. She hurt him pretty bad. He tells me he never really felt closure. (I have been with him for more than 12 years!) I knew about all of this all before the affair happened -- well, I can't say I knew he didn't feel closure. (I thought we had a very close and open relationship...) Anyway, I figured it out this time pretty quickly, confronted him and he immediately confessed to it. He was actually with her when I called him and came home immediately. Her partner of 9 years had suddenly died and she reached out to my husband in desperate need for a friend I guess and then things got out of hand.Of course my husband didn't tell me he was talking to her as a friend. He claims that he tried to get her to have dinner with us or something because she and I would actually really get along, but she's really shy or whatever. That's the story. The thing is, I truly do feel bad for her loss. My heart breaks for her. Then I hate her. I want to bash her face in. It's all so confusing. I think, well at least the man I love is still alive. We can fix it. We can work it out. Her partner is gone. If I was in her shoes would I care if my ex was married? I know she's not to blame.That was 6 months ago. I was starting to feel better. My husband and I went away and have had so many conversations and are so open with each other now. But all of the sudden it's all hitting me again. I mean, I thought we had this awesome marriage before and I was wrong. I'm obsessively monitoring his calls, his facebook, etc. I even find myself checking HER facebook, google+, tumblr account, etc. and getting upset all again. I don't know what I'm doing. I try to tell myself that it's because she said she was moving out of state and I'm trying to get some proof of that, but I don't know if that is it. Am I crazy?Then tonight I thought, I could just send her a message. I haven't had any contact with her whatsoever thus far. For some reason it didn't even occur to me that I could contact her. What would I say anyway? She didn't hurt me, he did. She is most likely in a lot of pain herself. She's almost not even real to me honestly. And I don't know what kind of reaction she will have. I really don't need more drama. I drafted this whole very sweet letter and just would ask if she did move and if she has stopped contact with my husband....but it seems pathetic. I just want some sort of contact with her and I just want to know she's out of our lives for good. Honestly, though, even if she would respond would that make me feel better? I just don't know. I haven't send the message to her yet. Should I contact her? Any advice? (And thanks for reading this novel)
I'm so sorry for all you're going through. I've no doubt that many of the feelings triggered by your husband's first affair will resurface. Six months is really not such a long time. I don't advise reaching out to this woman for a couple of reasons. The first is that, pain re. death of partner aside, this is a person who cheats. She cheated on your husband and she cheated WITH your husband. Her boundaries are somewhat fuzzy and she clearly doesn't worry too much about who gets hurt, except herself. You know this about her.Second, I think you're looking to her for something you likely will never have -- a guarantee that your husband will never do this again. By keeping tabs on her, you're giving yourself a false sense that you can control his actions. You can't. You never could. You never will. It's something all of us need to realize, especially those of who've learned the hard way via a spouse's affair.What you're experiencing right now -- the hyper vigilance, the anxiety -- is pretty standard post-betrayal trauma. Have you sought any counselling for yourself? You've suffered a deep loss -- the loss of the marriage you thought you had, especially after giving him a second chance already. You're likely grieving and without the support that this ex-girlfriend has. While I can actually understand your husband's feelings of non-"closure" re. his ex-girlfriend, I'm not sure that's enough to justify what he did. There's more to it than that, I think. Some story he's told himself that allowing him to cheat (twice! despite knowing how painful it is for you). I think to both ameliorate your trauma and improve the likelihood of your marriage surviving long-term it's important for both of you to really understand what allows him to make these choices. I fear you're being a bit too understanding, at the expense of your own feelings. I wonder too is some of your feelings of rage toward the other woman (which we've all felt, believe me!) are really feelings of rage toward your husband that you're redirecting.In any case, this is all stuff I think you'd do well to examine with a therapist. You've been wounded deeply and that takes time and compassion and support to heal from, none of which you'll likely get from the serial cheating ex-girlfriend. Elle
My story is a little different. I really did make poor choices early in our relationship and the stuff my marriage was built on was not your ideal situation. Although I feel I do deserve some of what I got, I did make it clear that I wanted better and to be better for our kids. We had some good years and we have great children, but unfortunately my idea of never to late to make things right, hasn't stuck and we are still flailing about in the sea of love.The thing I am seeing in this blog alot, is the manipulation and truth-shifting that the cheater does to make you feel "crazy" or like you are somewhat responsible and should just "be positive" and "let things happen". What a crock of s&*t! The bottom line is that I don't know the whole truth and he is not going to fill in the blanks, yet wants to just move forward because he says so. My story is so beyond belief, I think people may be shocked, yet very understanding because although my story might be an extreme, when it was happening, everything seemed so minor because it happened in small increments, however, when you put it all together it is like a wave of malignancy that just kept gathering in size and inertia that nothing could stop it! I think a lot people who have been through more than one "scandal" can relate to that. So here we go. My current husband of 14 years was my second husband, and although my first husband was a drunk, I didn't think he was a cheater, alcohol was the other woman. I met my first husband through a friend of mine. It was bizarre. It was my first big night out after my separation and she explained we were going to meet a guy, who she said was her "boy toy" - he was 7 years younger than us. Well the three of us ended up having a little too much fun. I had never done anything like that before. I figured that was the first and last time. However, the boy toy was interested in me! He started pursuing me and my two children, and before I knew it we were moving in together after my divorce! Needless to say, my friend was not happy with us. I had insisted that we tell her and we did pretty quickly. I asked if she understood and was it okay, since she really wasn't interested in him for anything but a fling, but she was still very upset. Of course, she got her revenge by sleeping with him after we started dating. At any rate, we decided to marry after a couple of years and just before that happened, my friend decided to sabotage the wedding by threatening my husband that she was going to tell me about their affair, since at that point, I had no idea. So he acted in what I have come to know as typical guilty behavior such as making things worse by staying out all night and informing me that he doesn't really want to get married. I told him to just tell me what happened and we could work it out. It happened a long time ago and I wasn't just going to throw our future away over something that happened while we first were dating and obviously was her way of getting revenge - basically letting him off the hook! This would come to be a pattern that happened year after year! Every friend I ever made, he either tried to engage in flirting, wife-swapping, or girl on girl action! Finally, after I did some research, I suggested he was a sex addict. I had lost all my friends through alienation because of his behavior and stopped throwing parties, or doing anything fun with anyone. I became depressed because I thought that I was not in love with my husband and he was not in love with me, otherwise, all these horrible things wouldn't keep happening. see next post:
We tried counseling, separately and together, but never followed through. BEWARE! Don't go to counseling and then blow it off prematurely! He will say, "we tried counseling and it didn't work". make sure you research your choice of therapist thoroughly. You may feel in a huge rush to get to someone to have your feelings heard and validated, but you want HIM to hear and validate your feelings, and it takes a special person to listen to your story and not "choose sides" and make sure no one feels ganged up on, yet carve a path to the truth. I know my story includes me participating in some deviant behavior and since I made such a poor choice by pursuing a relationship with my friend's part-time boyfriend, why should I be surprised by his unfaithfulness? What did I expect? That is really what makes it so tragic.Of course, I felt awful and I was very surprised that he was wanting to see me again. In fact, my friend is the one that helped him get us together! He REALLY wanted me. I was flattered, and we actually made a good team. He was fun yet responsible and much different than my lazy ex-husband. We quickly hit it off and bonded. We put together a pretty damned good life. However, that little issue of the circumstances under which we met continued to come back to haunt us. we would discuss how much I detested the alternative life-style or any other sexual antics with people outside our marriage, yet it continued to be a theme throughout the marriage. He would promise me again and again that it would never happen again, and he was sorry, he thought that's what I wanted. If he got caught in a lie or flirting behind my back, he would say "I was telling her that you wanted to fool around with her". He was adamant that it wasn't for HIM it was for ME!!! Even though I told him over and over, that's not what I wanted, he would conveniently forget and just fall back to that old argument again and again. When that game finally ran out, guess what? Things got better right? WRONG! Next step, just go ahead and step right out of the marriage. If he couldn't keep doing it in front of me, then he just went ahead and made arrangements behind my back. Think 23 year old girl who works for him. He took her to lunch with our 12 year old daughter and talked about her being her step-mom. And when I found out. Remorse? I'm so sorry? NOPE! He ran to her apartment and was caught there. It was Christmas Eve. Talk about Christmas being ruined forever! Anyway, he didn't fire her until end of February exactly a year ago. So where does everything stand? I don't have the whole story. Just last week he admitted a few more things. He said he wanted to be 100% honest so we could move on and told me more details, but nothing earth-shattering. He wants me to believe that months of texting and flirting at work and several nights where he was gone out all night, but the only thing that happened was an embrace. They were so strong! I should be proud of them actually. So can anyone tell me where to go from here? I can't stand the thought of the "truth" about his relationship with this girl continuing to trickle out! I saw that term in this blog and that's when I had the light-bulb moment! For all I know, he is still carrying on with her!!! I don't believe anything he says anymore and not just about cheating. I don't trust him with our business, money, he's disrespected me to the point I don't even know him.
Part one: I discovered your site four years ago when i received an email at work from a woman telling me that until the day before she been having an affair with my husband. For the past two-and-a-half years. She lived in a different city and my husband travelled often for work and was able to see her as often as he wanted. I did not suspect, although i knew something was very wrong with our marriage. I had teenage children entering the important years of their high school studies and, having read this and similar sites, decided that i would see if we could work our way through things. We did have counselling, but my husband refused to be open with me about technology use etc. which was difficult as distance meant the emails and text were their key ways of communicating and his mistress sent me many, many emails he had sent her which were extremely hurtful. That was May - around October/Nov my husband was in the shower when his phone started vibrating beside his bed. I didn't realise it was his phone, but when i reached over to check what the noise was i found texts that were intimate. We were then both made redundant as a result of the recession that followed the GFC. I found other work quite quickly and my career has been fine since then; he could not and after six months accepted a two year contract in a country on the other side of the globe. He had managed all of our money - i had always earned much more than him and thought this was a way of evening up things. Over the next 12 months he pretty much emptied out joint account - including a large sum of redundancy money i had received - and in the end i had to go to the bank and block the accounts and open new accounts in my name with the little money left. He refused to ever explain what had happened with the money. I had to threaten to go to social services before he agreed to start contributing to the costs of the two teenagers still at home.
Part two: Over the past 12 months i have scrimped and saved and got my bank balance back to something that doesn't keep me awake at night, but its been really tough. About six months into this new regime he came home for a break. The day before he arrived i was tidying up the house and found an old visa bill which showed he had spent more than $1000 in one day on lottery tickets and flowers. I suspected these had been for his mistress, as he was in her new home town, but he denied it and said that he had bought the lottery tickets because 'he was the lowest he'd ever been' and the flowers were for a friends mother. He stayed in the spare room, but he was so charming and the kids were so happy to have dad home that i relented.....a few days later he had friends over as it was the last night of his break. I happened to walk across our family room and found a phone - which i realised was his - and it was flashing with new messages. From another woman. I was beyond furious - he said it was because of the upset over the money and i had been cold towards him. My teenage daughter overheard the argument that ensued and my anguish. It was horrible. He then left and flew away. How convenient. He swore he had ended the relationship when he got back but i have no way of knowing if that happened, and tried a little harder to stay in contact. In the meantime i had a new, really senior role, and was relishing the professional opportunities it provided. He made one more short visit before the end of last year and was due to come back permanently next month. As i started thinking about having him back in our house and my life and started feeling anxious and scared. He'd had two affairs that i knew of, cleaned out our savings and had no job to come home to. I tried to find roles he could apply for and event got him an interview through a contact but it didn't progress. In the meantime, i started not being able to sleep and it was affecting my relationship with my kids so i started counselling again (I had gone to see the same woman when the money issue blew up). After two sessions i had a nightmare which involved my husband sitting in a towel at what looked like a night club while somebody read out all of the things he had spent our money on. On the other side a young woman who was like a Shakespearean actor speaking off-stage but telling me of all the other affairs my husband had had that i didn't know about and how he had boasted to others of taking advantage of me on numerous occasions. I woke up at 3am with a sense of dread and realised that i couldn't go on in the marriage. I had a counselling session that day and the next day sent my husband a text in the other country to say that the marriage was over. I only feel a sense of huge relief and sadness at the time i have wasted giving him so many second chances. I wonder if your advice re keeping on trying is always the right one - i don't say this as a criticism and in the first few months after finding out about the first affair they were a life line, but i do wonder now if i would have been better to cut my losses then and their not waste so much precious time, and lose so much money, for somebody who does not deserve to have a relationship with me...
Anonymous,That huge sense of relief is clearly evidence that you've made the right choice. Be prepared that you might not feel it all the time. You might still have moments of doubt. But come back to it...and remember how good it feels to not have his crazy in your world.I'm sorry for all you've been through. I do, however, want to clarify that I never recommend one course of action over another. I honestly don't think I could ever know what's right for one person. I know what worked for me and I don't regret my choices. But I'm constantly aware that I'm only getting one side of every story...and that I don't have all the details. Even if I did, I simply can't know what's right for anyone but myself. So I'm certainly sorry if you interpreted anything I said as a recommendation to stay and work it out. I'm glad, however, that you feel clear on what your next steps are. It doesn't sound like he deserves a relationship with you. You're wise to recognize that his attempts to blame you for his cheating are total bullshit. And I wish you all the best going forward. I hope you'll keep us posted.Elle
Thanks Elle - I have read some your blogs and advice again and you are remarkably even-handed with your advice. I just wanted my family to stay together so much I pretended to myself that his failure to try and change was ok. Even now he has not given me the respect of responding to my message about wanting to end the marriage. He wants the kids to blame me for ending things which is the ultimate crazy making trick his his very large arsenal....
Your desire to keep your family intact is completely understandable. And betrayal is shocking -- it takes us time to really wrap our minds around what it means for us. But when one of the partners continues to be dishonest and disrespectful, it forces your hand to, at the very least, create strong boundaries. Nobody should tolerate that. Your job is to treat yourself with respect and demand that others in your life also treat you with respect. It sounds as if he's going to challenge your strength in this. Stay firm. Do not let him use the kids as pawns, though you may have to do some de-programming with them. Don't bash him, though it will be hard. I hope you have a therapist who can help you work through all the nonsense he's putting in front of you and your kids. Elle