Separating and Divorcing, Page 10


  1. Starting over on page 10 so this doesn't get lost....

    First and most importantly - your daughter. What a terrible time she must be going through, whatever it is, I know you will ensure she gets the best care from yourself and professionals. Is she involved in sport? I find sport is a good outlet to meet other friends outside of school and keep the kids so busy, they come home tired. It's also a good stress relief. Sending hugs of support.
    Now. As for the men in your life.
    How dare your EX react with his uncomfortableness to a situation he is 100% responsible for. I hope he spends many sleepless nights!
    Did he care for the pain he caused you? No. You've been so kind to him with all that you have had to endure. Stick to your boundaries.
    Why is the new guy pissed off? What triggered this reaction? Is it warranted? Please look and listen to his reaction to all of this. I can't comment fully as I'm not sure why new guy is reacting like this, but look out for red flags.
    So Phoenix. Your job right now is to definitely not worry about your EX, and not to worry how your new guy is feeling, but to get your daughter well. She's the child in all this. The "men adults" can just deal with their issues themselves.
    I wish you peace Phoenix.
    Sending big hugs
    Gabby xo

  2. Gabby with the wisdom! Happy Friday ladies. Take care of yourselves this weekend. I'm heading to the gym today for my new epic crossfit training. Aiming to be my beast (spelling intentional) in 2019. Tomorrow I am laying wreaths in the local veterans' cemetery and then quality time with my young man (who recently sent me a text that he "hearts" me so much - just relishing that feeling if being chosen and cared for a little bit). Sunday will likely be tree trimming and baking with the kids.
    Blow up yesterday between my kids, mostly my son being inflexible, and then exploding when he felt like we were all ganging up on him because he needs to share the TV room. He's used to having that space to himself most evenings for a bit of gaming, youtube and homework, but with his sister around, the routine is off. I tried to convey to him that she (or any other household member) has a right to be in that room at any time. If he needs alone time, he can go to his room. Trouble is, his room does not include a computer or xbox. It doesn't help that my ex, with his usual lack of situational awareness, was over and just piled on. And then as my son was storming away, said some smarmy nonsense like "I'm sorry you are having a tough time with this. I love you T." And i KNOW my ex is trying to be more open and loving and present with the kids, but holy fucking eyeroll. Like recognize that this was not the time for you to lay your new persona shit on your son and instead see that he needed you to back the fuck away. Then he starts talking to me about wanting to get our son tested because he'd been talking to his therapist and she thinks our son could be on the spectrum. I was having absolutely none of it. While it could be a possibility, this therapist has absolutely no business proposing a diagnosis for a person she's never met and based entirely on hearsay from one of her demented patients. Fuck her anyway. And I said to him that while I"m open to the possibility I am not willing to go straight to worst possible case disaster mode (his favorite place to live, my ex). I said, he's certainly got very high anxiety and relies on his routine to manage that but he doesn't, have any difficulty relating to others or having empathy. I'm also not willing, at this juncture, to make a knee jerk reaction that could have a long term impact on my child's self esteem. But this kicked hornet's nest of drama is my ex over and over. Everything is a crisis and once he makes up his mind, full speed ahead with the plan, even though he's staring at evidence that the plan is shit. Likely this is the same MO that got him out to jerk off joints and in cahoots with the OW. So, as I said, I'm not having it. My son is immature for an almost 16 year old, no doubt. But he's already been diagnosed with ADD and that's one of the things that happens. No need to go straight to Asperger's. Once again, fuck that therapist, she overestimates her ability (she's not a medical doctor) and she needs to have her license revoked. And also fuck my ex his non stop drama mongering. God he's exhausting. No wonder I was tired and depressed all the time.
    Wow. I got off track, haha. Everyone, I will raise a glass in your honor on Saturday and let myself be fussed over by a lovely human who cares about my well being. I'm going to try and be more of that person (who cares about my well being) too.
    PS. Sam A, I want you to know that I've put your slides to good use. They live by my back door and I pop them on over my socks when I need to let the dogs out. Just like old fashioned pattens.

  3. Wow ss1 I’m so pleased you wear my slides even if it is to let the dogs out loool. Yaaay My legacy lives on in your house. I had such a great time at yours and our trip to myrtle beach I have great memories of our retreat. Let’s all of us just take some time out to remember happy times, positive vibes and wonderful memories.. love you ss1 xxx

  4. How do people start dating again? I am not going to do it before the divorce but I need to start wrapping my head around that. I have been with my H since 1995! I want to meet grown ups. How does that happen in this day and age?

  5. MBS! I've got you when it comes time to start dating. I've helped many friends write up great online dating profiles. I can give you some insight from my own experiences with it. And while there are duds, I also met a lot of nice, interesting people, even if it didn't work out. Online dating is just one strategy.
    The other thing you can start doing for yourself right now is get out and be social. Take a class (I take a painting class). Join a group with common interests (like a knitting group, photography or running etc.) The Meet Up App is great for seeing what is going on in your area and getting out in a relatively safe, social way. Meet Up often has groups of newly divorced or in the process of, specifically for just being social with others who "get it" and without pushing into the trying to find a date realm. You can also get involved with your church, a local animal shelter or some other volunteer activity. I volunteer with a veterans' group. We have a lot of activities, I've made some amazing friends who are a big part of my life now. And I met the sweet guy I am currently dating. But I was part of that group for almost two years before considering dating someone within.
    Call up friends and go to lunch, find out what they are involved with. The important thing is to get out and start being social as a single person,when you are ready. I am never depressed, or sad, or dwelling on my ex when I am out with my friends or in art class etc.

  6. OMG you guys. This latest. Not the end of the world just more. So my ex has already introduced this latest paragon to his family, actually took her to a family birthday party for his sister. Introduced her to my nieces and nephews and in laws. He has invited my kids over for dinner tonight (has said it is optional) to meet her AND HER FOUR YEAR OLD kid. Y'all they have been dating for one hot minute. Both my kids have discussed it and say it feels too soon. My son has only discussed it with my daughter. But my daughter has no reserves about talking to me about how crazy it is. She's said it feels too soon and she doesn't feel up to it. That this is just his usual impulsive and self focused rushing ahead melodramatic BS (her words) and that the new GF must be equally as crazy if she's already introducing here toddler to this man she just started dating.
    I told my daughter she's not obligated to go tonight. But she and I both know that some kind of drama or scene or attempt at deep convo will ensue.
    Friends I am judging. I dated boat guy and never introduced my kids because I didn't know where it was going. While both kids are old enough to know any new guy is not their "new dad", it's also my job to shield them from the ups and downs of my dating life. Even with my sweet awesome new guy, I'm still hesitant. Not because I doubt him, but because its still new and I don't want to rush my kids and because I need time too.
    My ex is an idiot, right? Like still doing the same old thing. In fact, this feels sort of desperate. On both their part. Now the the OW is really out of the picture he had to fill that vacancy stat. He's just so clueless and I can see he's got no idea how this dating thing works. Maliciously, I hope it implodes quickly. But he (and I'm guessing she) are on the fast track to dysfunction junction. This feels like his affair fog thinking all over again. I wonder how its going to go the first time she says no to sex. I hope for her sake, she figures him out and gets out fast. I can't even warn her, lol.
    Just found out this morning when my daughter (not my ex, who should have asked since it wasn't his night for dinner) filled me in. My job now is to focus on me and my own life and not worry about his bullshit. Remind myself that I am better off. That I have so much less drama in my life without him. I have good friends and people who love me, and I know i deserve good things and not the crumbs I tolerated for so long.
    I really want to get to a place where this tragic mess or a man is no longer a factor and elicits no emotions in me.
    Please feel free to jump on and agree with me or bash his poor judgement, lol.

    1. PS I know it's not very grown up of me, but neither kid went there yesterday and I'm feeling a little gleeful about it. Like this latest fairytale he's concocting for himself is not going according to script.
      Can't wait until I get to the indifferent phase. I think I've been so uncertain about everything that I haven't been willing to look too far into the future. Afraid, especially, to look at a future where I am on my own. But honestly, that is the only future I can safely plan. Maybe its time to let go of my death grip on fear and start imagining what my future could look like. Look at AirStreams, look at fun little houses i the city. Maybe even imagine myself living with someone! I need to start creating real, tangible goals for myself and working toward them instead of being paralyzed. It's OK to let things unfold too. But I need to maybe start being an agent in my own dreams and goals. This is that whole focus on me thing. Which is so hard while I am working through this fresh anger thing. I'm allowed to be angry. I just don't want to stay here and turn bitter. I think I need to revisit my Brene Brown and Pema Chodron books Not been feeling very spiritual lately..

    2. I think you're allowed a bit of glee about your kids seeing his silliness and not wanting any part of it. Sounds like they've learned healthy boundaries. ;)
      And I sometimes think we have unrealistic expectations of ourselves. I don't think it's the least surprising that you feel angry. If you're still feeling angry three years from now when he's introducing girlfriend #37, then maybe it's time to revisit your own issues. But this is still new. So it's going to poke some still-open wounds.
      But kudos to you for creating an environment where your kids can talk to you about how they feel and where you can be honest about your own stuff while letting them find their way. That's awesome!

    3. Thanks Elle, I think I needed some permission to just be angry about this. And yes, my kids, especially my daughter are really getting good at boundaries. Unfortunately my ex, not so much. Turns out the new GF will be there Christmas day, despite them not going last night and indicating it was too soon for them. My daughter is pretty bitter "girl don't you have your own fucking family? what is wrong with you?" and "Dad thanks for ruing Christmas. AGAIN." As she vented to me.
      It is pretty painful to imagine this person over at his place with his family celebrating Christmas afternoon. That was my tradition, Christmas and the family dinner was my big scene. I worked really hard and had perfected it. and not only has he stolen that and family from me, he's putting someone else in the spot that should have been mine. Still open wounds indeed.
      My daughter has been talking/venting to me about some pretty difficult things for me to hear, but she asked permission as she doesn't really have anyone else to talk to about it. So I said yes, because of course I want her to feel safe to talk with me, but also said, I may need to call a time out at some point if the terrain gets to rough for me. I think it worked pretty well. Although it would be my preference to know as little as possible (and my girl is very good at summarizing vs giving me unnecessary and painful detail) I need to support her too.
      But, I'm allowing myself to be mad right now. And honestly to feel a little sorry for the new GF, she apparently knows most of the story and is OK with it. I feel sorry she is so hurting or lonely or depserate that she thinks she needs to settle for this broken man who was (and I believe still i) capable of doing so much harm. That she likely believes that their situation will be different. That he will change and magically do better for her. That she doesn't know him well enough to know that the deep sensitive guy she's seeing is all surface. It's all the latest act. I feel sorry for her for when she may, in future, have to meet me and see I am not a horrible old ogre and think her "catch" is kind of a tragic joke. As much as I want to lash out at her, she's another bystander. She's not the OW. She didn't end my marriage or hurt me. That's all my ex. I hope she'll recognize that if she's divorced and thinks her ex is a piece of shit, that the guy she's dating is also someone else's ex who's a piece of shit. Two sides to every story.
      I feel better for writing that out. It helps to know that my daughter is not snowed by him and neither is at least one sister, even if his "therapist" and the new GF are.
      So, I'm allowed to be angry. I feel better now that I don't feel like I need to fight it so hard. I'm going to Crossfit tonight and thrash some of it out on the assault bike.

    4. pt 1
      Hey SS1
      I know how you feel.
      Ex walked out on me and the kids for his new skank.
      A couple of months after we broke up he took the kids on OUR family holiday and told them one day he's been seeing ....skank, and tomorrow he wants them to meet her. The kids rang me desperately unhappy and worried about it all. So they ended up staying away for the day whilst skank was there as they didn't want to meet her.
      It's advised not to introduce a new person to your children (not sure of age) until at least 1 year. My ex just doesn't have any idea. He has zero emotional intelligence.
      SS1. These guys are just effing selfish assholes, who have no concern for anyone but themselves. Mine seems to be a super size prick!
      At home, there has been many times they just don't want to go to visit their father (skank has moved in with him) because she is there and once earlier on he threatened them that he would go to court so they would be forced to go. Typical narcissistic bastard. I reassured the kids he no longer has control over you like that, and the judge will not force you. So now they see him sporadically. It's funny how after he walked out, ex spent many days not contacting the kids, not bothering to see them, and then when he wants to see them becomes demanding and verbally aggressive if they refuse. That is lessening, but if he doesn't get his way with the kids he carries on. He carries on like a petulant child. My kids do not like his skank and when they go to his house very rarely converse with her.
      I suppose I'm angry with it all still because (he and) she is the reason our family/marriage is no longer, and it's as if she's just walked into my life got my husband, now wants my kids. She doesn't have any kids of her own, and ex has had the v so doesn't plan on having kids. It is another kick in the guts SS1. But your kids sound like mine. They'll have your back. They still are kids, and I have encouraged mine to have some sort of relationship with their dad, but they really do not like her, and quite frankly, are not too impressed with him. They can see how selfish and cruel he can be. God bless them. They think she's weird looking and really boring - which makes me feel better. I think your ex has just got his shiny new toy and wants to show it off, and now being divorced feels that this relationship is ok then. Can you really see your ex being involved for ever with his new women with such a young child around? Laugh at how tired he will be trying to deal with that one!

    5. pt 2

      Very rarely now my kids when visiting him and she's there do I worry. There are times when it pisses me off and I get triggered and angry and depressed, but ex and I are finished, and there'll be no other women ever that will be able to measure up to me. I'm the mum and a bloody nice, good person. But. There is a part of me, that will never like which ever other women he ends up with....maybe that will change with time, but for now, I'm ok with feeling like I do.
      Just do as you have been doing. Create a safe home for your kids - physically and emotionally.
      As for you not introducing your new guys to your kids yet, you have done the right thing. It didn't work out with boat guy, so there was no connection or fun boat trips that the kids had, that is now no longer.
      Have you mentioned your new guy to your kids? If not, you could do it slowly by just talking about the people at the volunteer group and casually drop one guy is quite nice -then leave it, and another conversation, just add a bit more. You ask the kids when they are ready to meet him, it'll happen.
      My kids have actually told me they want me to meet someone nice as I deserve to be treated nice. (bless them). They know if ever it happens meeting him will be on their terms. They have nothing to worry about as I am NOT interested in meeting anyone!
      As MBS was querying dating and I reckon 90% of the separated/divorced women I know are looking for a relationship, I am wondering why I am not interested? Where do you find the time? Being full time single parent -which includes driver, working etc, when I get home I'm exhausted! Obviously it's not a priority to me and I really can't ever see myself in a relationship. I have lots of groups of friends and I am so enjoying being on my own without an angry controlling husband around....and I have no feelings or desires for sex. I know I have been traumatised by his infidelity and the women- the one night stands and the prostitutes - it has really repulsed me.
      I haven't read Brene Brown or Pema Chodron. Maybe I should put them on my list.
      Gabby xo

  7. Gabby thank you, I knew you'd get it. And I appreciate your thoughts and advice. The good news is that my kids know I am dating but that they don't have to meet him any time soon. I recognize that having to deal with dads latest is a lot, especially right at Christmas (eyeroll) and I don't want to do anything that turns it into a competition. So the kids know it is in their control at least relative to me.
    And on dating, I actually totally get you. I was really very happy this summer in some ways as a single person and I was not actively looking to date someone. I had freedom, spent lots of time with friends, exercised tons and took care of work and my business. Adding in dating is both time consuming and adding a layer of complexity. I think you are very wise to recognize that its just not for you right now. I'm feeling really lucky with the guy I'm dating. He's so thoughtful, very considerate and generous with his time and feelings. He is concerned about my well being and treats me really well. But again, I am in no rush to have him met the kids and he totally get that. He's even said, I know your kids come first. Mt parents were divorced so I get it. ... Anywho I'm doing better. Thanks Gabby!

  8. Just when I think my ex has kinda got it, I realise he hasn’t. Recap for the last 7 months he’s been trying to reconcile with zero attempt to do anything. More recently he has been putting in a little more effort, helping more with the kids when I’m stressed with my work, giving me more money so I done have to work and I can concentrate on my studies and a few other bits to show he is trying. But here’s the thing it’s not anywhere near enough. He rang me last night and said he is going to move round the corner from me so he can have the kids over as his current place is too small. He then said if I wanted I could come and spend time there too and eventually move in if that’s what I wanted. I made it clear that I didn’t ( even though it sounds like a good idea) financially etc etc. I also made it clear that I’ve seen no action the last 7 months just verbal diarrhoea which means nothing so I’m glad he’s taking steps to sort out accommodation for him and the children. . Anyhow I said I have no space in my brain right now for him or anything I’m literally bogged down with studying which by the way is so liberating too.

    I’m not going to worry too much about my ex as what he says and does are two different things. There is always something right in the back of my mind that says IF he gets his shit together and makes hives strides forward in his attitude/behaviour would I take him back????? Answer is I don’t know!!! And there is no point worrying too much as when I do my anxiety pipes up. So back to living my best life each day at a time.

    Well it will soon be Christmas, I’m cooking for my sister and many nieces and nephews it will be nice to take a day of studying and just enjoy time with the family : ) .. hope you all have some time to yourself this period to do whatever makes you feel good inside.

    Wishing you all love and peace..

    Oh yeah I came on my period .. thank god!!!
    : ) no more babies for me, I’ll wait for my grandchildren xxx

  9. Sam A I hope you had a good christmas, hope your ex is respecting your boundaries. Glad any pregnancy potential is all cleared. Keep focused on you and your studies.
    I'm trying to stay focused on me and my business and my kids for the new year. All is good with my nice young man. The ex has been putting me and the kids through the ringer. What an arsehole. I am so ready for 2018 to be done. I know it is arbitrary, but it is still a line in the sand. This is done. Give it a viking funeral. 2019 will be better. For all of us.

    1. I’ve read your thesis on the other page ss1 lol, you are the warrior of warriors. You dealt with Christmas and the shannigans so well honey. You do amaze me ss1, when a crisis arises you roll your sleeves up and get on with it. You should be so proud of yourself. I was thinking next Christmas I should come over to visit, your Christmas traditions sound lovely : ) .. love ya lots xxx

    2. PS Sam A, definitely come for xmas in 2019! that would be amazing!!

  10. Hope you all had a good Christmas
    Ex had the kids as it was his families turn for Christmas lunch this year - so my first year EVER without my kids for the whole day....and it sucked! Of course he gave all the big ticket presents, mine were the practical things - but that's the way it's always been, and I wouldn't want to change that practical side of me for anything!
    So now the kids have gone away with ex on what was always our family holiday, and of course ex's skank is there too. And THIS is killing me. This was always OUR family thing. We stayed at the same apartment, I've become friendly with so many local people...and now I am not there. Apparently, ex told the kids that he would pay for me to split the time so I could be there with the kids too.
    As much as I would have loved to I couldn't do it.
    1. How could I now ever stay in this apartment after skank has now been there? My kids don't understand this, I know you women will get it.
    2. Ex would be happy to not spend this time with his kids so he would not have to parent for extra time, and it would mean he would have more leave for him to take with skank as they travel the world.
    He needs to parent and see what I've been doing on my own for the last 12+ months.

    So ex made the kids travel on their own as he told them, he didn't want skank to travel by herself!!! Are you fucking kidding me? I can't believe this fucking loser! What is wrong with this "man/father" who puts his skank ahead of his own children? No one of my friends - no decent people can believe this, how selfish and self centred he is. Anyone who condone's this, just show's how off their moral compass is.
    So ex, his cheating and leaving the marriage/family is all his fault. When you delve into our life, how lazy he could be, how unhelpful, how selfish, cruel everything - he really has shown that he couldn't handle/be bothered being a parent to the extent you need to be, to be a good parent.
    Ex was the one who always wanted a family, and even said to me when we were first married....and I still wasn't ready for kids "that's what marriage is all about, if I had of known you didn't want kids, I wouldn't have gotten married"..Anways, I soon became ready, had kids, and discovered it is the best thing in the world, and yet, ex who was the one who always "wanted" a family is the one who can't handle it and all that comes with having kids - which means you have to make sacrifices to ensure you raise good decent people.
    He is enjoying his single life as he can sleep in on weekends, not have to deal with kids and family life. He can just do what he wants and worry only about himself. Yes I'm annoyed. Annoyed with him, annoyed with his family for supporting him and annoyed with me that I chose someone that I thought was so family orientated only to turn out to be useless. (He is supportive of his parents and siblings...too much - over his own children).
    Anyways. I was really upset Christmas Day and Boxing Day, but I am feeling better today. I used to think there's a decent man buried down within him somewhere, but now I see that will never surface as he's never apologised for what he's done and never sought to be a better person.
    So I should be happy he's gone, and in many ways I am - but I admit, there are times when I keep thinking of what should have been with us and our family, but because of selfish ex and all his selfish skanks, my marriage and family is no longer. I suppose it's only natural...
    Gabby xo

  11. I can’t imagine how hard it was spending your 1st Christmas without your children Gabby, I hope you spent some of the time doing something just for you. As much as we love having the kids around sometimes it’s nice to have that quiet time to just watch rubbish tv without any interruptions. I speak for myself here having had my son ask me every question under the sun.

    Gabby I understand your hurt and angry thinking about what could have been it is natural to feel that way especially now the kids have been introduced to his ‘skank! It must feel like there is a whole new level to the story. Your dealing with it so well though Gabby, don’t forget to take care of you in and amongst all that is going on. I’m glad your feeling better now this is what I love about feelings they don’t last forever good or bad they just come and go when they have taught us what we need to know. Love you gabby we’re nearly through these long drawn out holidays and back to our new normal so hang in there my love .. sending you hugs xx

  12. Gabby I so feel you, so much of what you wrote I am feeling too. Those things where you know he is a crazy piece of shit, but he has still stolen your life from you and given what was or should have been yours to someone else, Christmas day, the family holiday. I think about my ex and his latest crazy gf and her sitting in my spot at the family christmas he hosted doing all my old traditions as if they are his. Well my son couldn't stomach it and left. I'm sure my ex is enjoying life without kids, free to do as he pleases. He has no idea nor does he care how his actions have affected me and he seems to not really care or at least be able to think thru how it affects the kids. It is all so hard Gabby.
    I used to think there was a decent man in there too, but his recent actions have shown me he is crazier and more selfish than ever. And like you I still sometimes think of what could have or should have been and it burns my butt. I recently discovered that my ex unfriended me on Facebook. I haven't been able to articulate quite why yet, but it really bothers me. Like why, after all this time, is he suddenly removing me that way? Maybe its so I can't see what he is doing. Maybe its so he can't see me being happy but it feels like one more way he's erased me.
    Gabby I'm sorry you didn't get the kids at all on xmas. Is there no way to split the day? Or, as I've done this year, we just did our own "do over" a couple days later.
    Hugs Gabby, as we slide into the new year, I hope for peace and better times for all of us. I hope we can shake loose from the grip of these men who do such thoughtless, crazy things and are able to truly be fully in our own lives with them firmly in a distant and shrinking past.

  13. Ss1 and gabby, I know we ponder on the what if’s and imagine what could have been. But let’s look at the cold hard facts here, all our ex h are with other women who they either met whilst they were with us or a short time after. What kind of relationship do you think this is based on? There will be no trust, these guys will change for a short period untill they have them where they want them and then it will be back to their selfish, ego boosting ways. I’m desperate for my ex to go public with the ow or anyone else who’s in the frame, I’m not sure why he’s holding of but I’m certain the more I keep him at arms length the quicker he will marry again. He’s shallow and needy with no faults that he can point out. Good luck to all of them!! I’m certain we can and will go on to have healthy relationships when we are ready, we’ve done the hard work of healing and grieving our marriage with counselling and support these knobheads have done nothing. So don’t worry too much about how happy these men are because they are soooooo fucking miserable deep down. Heres to 2019 good riddance to bad rubbish . Please raise a glass : ) xxxx

  14. Hi all

    SS1. I have the kids full time, so we all were together xmas morning, but lunch, which is our big thing, they were with him the whole day..and skank was there. This was MY time, my place!!!
    As for your ex blocking you on social media - it's pain shopping if you keep looking. May I ask why you'd want to be friends with him on social media?
    Do you know what my ex did when we were married?? He wouldn't let me be "friends" with him on his social media platforms. HUGE red flags. So of course I went looking, and found he was friends with all these women, mostly from work, but his comments were immaturely childish and pathetic for a married man. He didn't want me to see he was flirting and carrying on as he was. What a loser. You know and I know we are better off without them, but there's this tugging of our hearts that's tiring and hurting us with the fact we were still not wanted by them.
    I personally just don't get what he sees in his current skank. She's weird looking and by the sounds of it from the kids - quite a bore!! but then I suppose she idolises him and that's what he wants. Someone to pay him all the attention.
    I keep thinking of you SS1 and hoping you are ok. You will be ok, and you know there'll be good days and bad, just sometimes the bad seem heavier than the good.
    Big warm hugs to you

    How are you doing Phoenix?
    Hi Sam A, Selkie, MBS and all you amazing women.
    Gabby xo

  15. Thanks Gabby and Sam A, I am always better for your insights, words of wisdom and kick in the butt when needed. Gaby you are right about the pain shopping on social medxia. We had maintained contact because of shared pictures with the kids and I guess it was part of the being amicable adults. I had already set him so he would not show up in my feed or be able to see anything that I did not post as public (You can do this so you don't have to unfriend people) . I had decided that it was probably time for me to unfriend him altogether so I would not be tempted to look at him and his social life, given the new GF. I guess it was a bit of a shock to find he had beaten me to the punch. Maybe because he was trying to be sensitive, knowing I did not want to see his stuff. And likely because his young new twit is posting them all over the goddamn place. But maybe also because he had been pain shopping too and was tired of seeing me looking gorgeous and happy. Let's go with that last one since I doubt he would do anything that wasn't motivated by self interest. Anyway, it just felt like on more action, in a string of many, where this knobhead was erasing me from his life and it hurts. Especially as I am processing that he's picked up this bartender with a four year old and putting her at my place at the table with his family. But as you say, still hurting over the rejection and feeling thrown aside for something so trashy. I've seen the latest btw. I'm prettier and according to my daughter, much smarter (daughter was venting to me post meeting about the new GF - funny stuff but also tragic for my kids I hate for them to have to watch their dad implode). Small comfort.
    I know I will be ok. I know I am so much better off without this man and his relentless drama and self centeredness. He's even got himself fooled that he's changed and is trying to be a better person. He's such a fake and as my daughter observed, we'll see how long it lasts. The mask usual comes off when he's under stress, which, given his choices, is most of the time. His latest is to state that he knows he will need to make apologies to the kids, over the course of years. And that he has apologies for me to, that might help, if I'll hear them. I told him I didn't have the bandwidth for anything more just now. SO he said the apology is for a lot of things, because I deserve them and not him looking for forgiveness. Like where the eff is this coming from and why now? And, I wonder, what is the catch? There is always one.
    So for now, I am going to try and climb to my feet again, get through the day and make better plans for myself, my kids, my future life, my business.
    Spent yesterday at the NYD parade in my city with my young man. He's so thoughtful and we had such a nice time.
    So glad I have you all. xoxoxo

  16. Hi All, i need some advise.

    It's a new brand year now and i am not seeing any changes in my situation with my H- 6 months separation. Should i give up for now or should i still putting hope that he will "awake" from his affair. We don't talked to each other anymore, only texting probably 1-2 months once. He never send any message to ask how's am i going on? Is everything ok to stay alone..etc... Even if we met at corridor in the company, he will just ignored me or treat me as invisible. I do not know what is going on his mind or what have i done so wrongly that i deserve this kind of treatment from him.

    He never admit that he is having affair but i immediately found out on the day he ask me to move out from the house. He said that he prefer to be alone. He even ask me not to beg him or anything so that he will have dignity. He is proud of himself to make this decision. -Sound crazy right?

    The OW (we worked in the same company) is trying to show off in front of me whenever we met in corridor. She feel so proud that she WIN. I don't care much about her. I am more concerned between my relationship between me and my H.


    1. Oh Anon, my heart is crushed for you. Did you end up leaving or did he? In these situations, I think the 180 is recommended. It is for you to detach from him and maintain your own dignity.

  17. Lost_AA
    I am so sorry for what yo are going through....and to have to deal with it whilst at work is not right!!
    Is there a HR department, a trusted boss at work you can talk to about this. It's not right her shoving it in your face at work.
    I'm sorry to say, if your husband is not prepared to go to counselling and do the work to heal your marriage, he doesn't want to work on his marriage. He sounds selfish and cruel, and no you don't deserve this treatment.
    Some men never admit to doing anything wrong. I hope you can find someone, a therapist, a trusted friend to talk to as you heal from this. Look after yourself.
    Gabby xo

  18. Hi Gabby, i guess the reason my H do not want to admit on it because he worried that i will make a big deal out of it in the company. The OW actually reported to my H.

    Don't feel sorry about it. This is the truth. He don't even want to admit that there is someone out there and how could he be willing to go for counselling? He don't want to talk to me since the day he requested to divorce. He say i am cruel to him because i do not agreed on the divorce. Probably i think is because he can't be with the OW officially.
    In fact, i am actually helping him as i know if both of their relationship disclose, this will ruin his career. He fought so hard to be where he is now and i don't want to see him fail. I really wondered if he ever thing of the consequences to be with this OW as it is so risky. What if their relationship didn't turn out to be successful? Can he face her in the office? She is sitting right beside him. What if other colleague found out about their relationship? I am pretty sure that people will talked behind them. This OW is going to be 40 yo this year and she divorce 1 or 2 years ago. Can she take it? I am worried that she will do something crazy if things doesn't work out between them.

    Yes, he is selfish this time. He said it too.


  19. Lost_AA response part 1
    Lost_AA, I'm sorry your H is being a complete psychopath dirtbag. You do not deserve to be treated this way.
    I have some recommendations, because I have been where you are: holding out hope that he'll "wake up" and realize what he's losing, hanging on in case he wants to come home or change his mind.
    I don't know how old your H is but some men, in middle age (or sometimes younger) , wake up one day and realize they are dissatisfied. Their work and achievements don't make them feel fulfilled as promised, they feel empty, and worse they realize they are not young anymore, and that to a lot of men, is so incredibly terrifying. Being young and strong and unbeatable is part of their weak identity. So if they are not that anymore, who are they? The least insightful ones will blame other people in their lives (like their wives, family etc.) for the lack of fulfillment and not realize that the emptiness they feel is something they have brought with them or created by not ever being a real, authentic person. Many men never figure this out because it is hard work, and requires an ability to really deeply look at themselves, own their choices and do the uncomfortable work of becoming a real, vulnerable person.
    Lost_AA, you deserve better than this man is giving you. And HE clearly does not deserve your time, energy, thoughts or hope. Save all that for YOU.
    What is your current living and financial arrangement? Is he paying you any kind of spousal support money? Is the separation informal or are there legal documents outlining how it works? Do you have your own bank accounts that he does not have access to?
    Regardless, I don't now how things work in your country (? no need to disclose) but get yourself to a lawyer who can provide you with insight into what his financial obligations are to you, including disposition of joint marital assets like a home and retirement funds. In most places you are entitled to a fair share of that. Women are dis-proportionally hit financially by divorce, largely because we have lower earning power in general and also because we often sacrifice our careers to our Hs for the same reasons.Fight for every penny you deserve, or hire someone who will help champion you.
    Then, if you haven't already, please consider starting the proceedings for divorce. Bear with me. This does not mean you have to go through with it, I know it is scary. But it does a few things for you. A) it gives you some measure of control as far as how this plays out B) it shows this asshole and the OW that you are not a doormat C) it shows your H that there are real consequences to his choices i.e. you are not there waiting in the wings to be his back up plan (my ex treated me this way for a long time during his affair) and he owes you money for support. He doesn't just get to walk away scott free.
    Lost_AA, if you have not already, please find a therapist, counselor or other medical professional to help you at this time. Therapy is critical for your support and well being.

    1. Hi Still Standing 1,
      First of all, thanks for your response and advise. I almost cry out in the office when i read this.
      Yes, i truly agreed that i do not deserve this kind of treatment from him but letting go of a relationship of 16 years is not an easy task. Someone one asked me, is he a good guy that doing wrong thing or a bad guy that doing wrong thing...this will help you to further decide to give up or stay. Honestly, he was a good guy and he used to be very loving and caring bf/H. He is not the guy i used to know.
      My H is in his mid-30. Yes, he did told me that he feel that he is not young anymore.
      I stayed in the new house that we both bought together. We are supposed to moved in to stayed in this new house but now i am the only one moved in. He did paid some support money but not the amount that he agreed earlier on. Our separation is informal.
      I have yet engaged with any lawyer as i feel that there are too much for me to handle earlier on. I need to take care of myself 1st before i am able to move to next step.
      My H even restricted the criteria of the financial support. He told me he don't want to his life to be miserable. He wanted to enjoy his life. How selfish he is by saying so? He wanted to enjoy life but what about me? I need to enjoy mine too right... :(


  20. Lost_AA response part 2
    And Lost_AA, as hard as it is, go out and make a life for yourself. Be social. Make new friends. Invest in you and yourself regardless if your H has the sense to show up or not. I took up painting, piano lessons, took a spinning class at the gym, started volunteering. (and if you are religious, get to church and be with those people who will support you too).All things that I had wanted to do but was never quite able while living with my ex. These things get you out and with other people. They are investments in your mind and spirit. I have made some amazing new friends through volunteering. We have similar values and they all treat me with respect, compassion and honesty. Surround yourself with people who support and value you.
    Get on with your life. I'm not going to lie Lost_AA. I did all this and still, in one little side compartment of my mind, held out hope for a long time that my ex would snap out of it and "choose" me. Over time, however, and out of the unhealthy cycle of our relationship, I began to notice what a self centered, crazy ass he was and still is. And, now that I'm not trying to save the relationship, I can see how poorly he treated me for years.
    Lost_AA, someone told me early on that my ex was an idiot, that he was going to wake up and want to come back, but that when he finally did, I wouldn't want him anymore. And guess what? This was entirely true.
    A year into our separation and months after we had worked through all the divorce negotiations, he had a drunk driving accident while I was on holiday with the kids. Things were already coming apart with the OW (a not very recovered alcoholic btw - talk about trading down) He said I was the first person he thought of when he woke up in the hospital and that he regretted not working things out when I offered. He wanted to go on a date and see how things worked. He asked me a lot of questions about what I would do differently if we reconciled. I told him "I need to wait and see what you do." He was going to stop drinking, quit smoking. etc. etc. None of those conversations included acknowledgement or apology for the degree to which he had hurt me. No remorse expressed. No discussion of what HE was going to do differently. And He backed away from the not drinking thing pretty quickly. And when I asked him just a week or two later where things stood wth the OW, he said, and I quote "We're not in a relationship now, but I'm not ruling it out in the future." So. No I'm glad I did not just jump in with two feet to try and reconcile with this selfish as. Your H, i'm sorry to say, sounds to be cut from the same cloth.
    Lost_AA, Please please, start looking out for you. Don't wait for this man. If he is worthy of you, he will show up in your life. And if he doesn't you've made a great life for yourself and space for someone who values you to show up instead and when you are ready.
    And about the OW. What has she won exactly? A broken, damaged, selfish man, that will treat her just as badly as he has treated you. And what she fails to realize is that a man who can lie to be with her, is probably already lying TO her.
    Lost_AA, this is so hard and I am so sorry for the pain you are in, but damn am I mad at the way you are being treated. I've given you a LOT of advice and things to think about. You don't need to tackle all of this at once. Just pick one thing that feels easy and get started.
    And I'm sending you huge hugs. I wish I could come make you a cup of tea and hold your hand. xoxo

    1. I hit to the gym everyday after work to sweat it all out. I feel glad that everyone said that i looks better and fit now. I lost total of 6.5KG since our separation. He is so mean that when his family member told him that i slim down a lot now and he responded " Did she? I don't realize that as she still look fat"
      There's gym in our company but i decided to join others place so that i can meet up with new people. Over the weekend, i will spend time doing puzzle. I've completed 3 so far.
      For me, i don't believe that he will ever "wake up" and come back based on his behavior and situation now. Probably he had already step out of the marriage and wanted to be with the OW so much.
      I always disagree or unhappy whenever he smoke. I force him to quit smoking and he did it successfully until recently he is back to smoke again. The OW actually encourage him to do so. She posted in social media with a quote " Do what you like and don't care about what other's feel"..
      As for the OW, she feel that she won in this battle as even though she is elder and she's divorced, she still have the capability to steal a man (my guess).
      All i want from him is to be honest with me and tell me the truth. Be a man, you have the courage to take the risk having affair but why you can't be brave to tell the truth. At least let me know what is going wrong with us and what's triggered him to take the risk to be with that OW.

      Still standing 1, i really appreciate for all your advise and shared with me so many things. I am so touch. Yes, i definitely need a long hugs from someone who understand me.


  21. My H texted me yesterday that he will proceed to file for divorce. Hmm...there's no turning back for us anymore.
    I need to give up on this marriage, give up on us but i will not give up on myself.

    It's sad and hurt but i believe i will get through this right? Please tell me so...


  22. Lost AA, I know this is hard and so scary, but we are all here for you. Please also line up some help and support for yourself in real life. Get to a lawyer who will protect your interests asap. Talk to family or friends who can support you. Find a therapist to talk through this. WHat you have been through has been traumatic. Navigating divorce with a therapist has been super helpful for me. Mine specializes in couple therapy and she had some good insights and advice for looking out for me while i was in negotiations with my ex.
    I love that you say out loud that you will not give up on yourself. Amen sister. You deserve better than your asshole H and one day you will see he is doing you a favor.
    You WILL get through this. You will be OK. In fact, I'd wager that you will be better than OK. You have a chance to move forward to a happier and healthier life, with people who respect and value you.
    Give yourself time to grieve and be sad. Don't run from those feelings. But don't lose sight of you and your worth.
    You will get through this. XOXO

  23. Lost AA just checking in. how are you holding up? How are the rest of my amazing girl squad!? I'm exhausted after a long day of volunteering at an MLK Day of Service event. Such good stuff, building kits for homeless women veterans. tired, but good.
    There are good things going on in my life, the xmas drama has faded. Back to having the ex around a couple nights a week to visit my son, unfortunately for me. But I've gotten pretty good at making myself scarce.
    Oh! and I am working hard on my business, asked a client for a raise and they said yes! That's a great way to start the new year. Good stuff going on.
    Gabby the offer of help for your business idea is still out there. Just ideas and talking, no fees, I promise. :)
    Sam a how is school going?
    Phoenix, how are this down south? Selkie? MBS? I know I'm missing someone...
    Sometimes this divorce stuff is hard, other times, I'm flabbergasted that I put up with his nonsense for so long. But mostly right now, I am feeling optimistic about my future and less and less afraid.
    XOXO my lovelies!!!

  24. I got this email from my ex today.

    This is what I've been wanting to apologize for.

    "I'm sorry for choosing to have an affair. For causing you to go through the shock, shame, anger, horror, and dishonor of having that happen to you. That is not something a person should do to another person. It was wrong of me to do it.

    This purposefully brief note is not an attempt to make it alright, or to say a few words to absolve myself in my own mind, or to ask for forgiveness as some sort of quid pro quo just for saying sorry. And I am not looking for you to respond. It's 100% only because you ought to have an apology for what happened."

    I'm not sure how i feel about it. I'm just sitting with it. I keep thinking "he forgot to use the word 'pain'"...

  25. Hi SS1 and the rest of the "girl squad"
    You sound like someone I would be instantly friends with in the "real world" SS1. So much of what you do, is what I admire.
    Glad xmas has faded for you. May I ask, why do you allow your ex into your house to see your son? Why can't your son go to his dads house? It's making it easy for your son I get it, but also easy for his dad to just turn up.
    If my ex wants to see the kids he has to come and get them and drop them back. I will not let him in the house - but then I don't talk to my ex at all. Uggg.
    Anyways. I might have to take you up on that offer SS1 to chat about business. I know I'm procrastinating. I just have zero confidence at the moment, mixed with completely disturbed sleep patterns making me tired and unable to want to function fully the next day. Nothing to ease my mind seems to be working - not even meditation which I just can't get into, but I'm not finding joy in anything much at the moment except my pets and love for my kids (but they're really lazy at the moment). But I can't be with them all day. Even reading. I have a TON of books to read, but just can't get into reading or anything. Walking helps, but I can't go out and walk all day. Just feel stuck at the moment and not sure why. I seemed to handle all this better when ex first walked out, but why now do I seem to be going back wards? Just seem to have no desire for anything. But putting on that mask just to get by some days. It's been 3 years and I feel stuck! How shit is that? I'm over IC. They say the same thing. Whilst they've all been nice, I haven't really found the one IC that I feel completely comfortable with, so I know this is all on me to do the healing...just feel tired and not interested, but wanting to heal!!! Life gets into a rut doesn't it? Work, home life, cleaning, lack of finances now to enjoy some other things in life. Fuck. Just in a had enough mood. Sorry to lump my misery on you all.
    (Doesn't help when I hear the kids telling me ex will be travelling later this year).
    Thinking of you all
    Gabby xo

    1. Gabby life’s tough right! Then stick on the betrayal the ex and his new bit of stuff and it really is a kick in the guts. You’ve had so much to endure honey and it just keeps coming. It sounds to me like you just need a rest from it all, don’t worry about what you can’t do just do what you feel like you can and if that’s sleeping all day then do it, ring in sick and slob out in front of the tv it usually works for me. Then When your up to facing the world again you will naturally introduce the walking and reading back into your life. Maybe you need a new hobby or a new direction in life Gabby, I usually reevaluate in January, last year I applied for my divorce in January, and I applied to uni : ) both have been great decisions by the way. I live on the edge a little Gabby I need to take risks to keep me going (I’m sure I suffer with a little adhd) but it’s not a bad thing it keeps me thriving. Your so entitled to have days like these Gabby I just don’t want to see you down for too long. Sending you a hug honey xxx

    2. Gabby, I'm sure we'd be friends in the real world.
      As far as my ex coming over to see my son goes, as with so many things, it's complicated.
      My son has some pretty serious anxiety. Having his dad come to the house, rather than him going to his dad's place let's him feel some form of control (i.e. he can say, dad I've got homework, you need to go) vs being trapped and reliant on his dad to drive him back etc. Early on during the separation, I was still hoping to reconcile. Having my ex come over to have dinner with my son gave me opportunities to interact with my then wayward spouse and perhaps show him what he was missing. Maybe he'd feel something like regret when he came over. Etc.Since then, obviously things have changed. I've broached the subject of my son going to his dad's on several occasions since then. My son resists strongly. He doesn't like to spend long time with his dad, says he finds it draining (relatable) and that he doesn't want to be forced to meet any additional "girlfriends" (quotes are his). So I'm not pushing for now. My son just turned 16. He'll hopefully be driving this year. That's another opportunity for me to suggest he go visit his dad, because if he drives, he can leave whenever. He is OK going when his sister is home and can drive them. Also, I have pretty strict boundaries about when and how the ex comes to visit. I try to support their relationship. The ex only comes over on two specific nights. On any other occasions, he texts me and asks permission to come. 9 times out of 10 I am already out doing volunteer or fitness stuff anyway. SO it is OK for now, and I've been managing my time around my ex to see even less of him.
      As for you feeling stuck Gabby. I think you should give yourself a break. You have been working so hard at getting through this and as my therapist constantly reminds me, it can take 2 to 5 years from the date the divorce is actually final before you really find your feet again. (I know, holy shit right?) So just be patient with yourself. You don't have to be killing it or getting it all done right now (note to self). As far as IC, there are a ton of shit counselors out there. Well intentioned, but not yet through their own shit yet or without proper training. There are so many. Try a different modality (like go to a group session, try yoga, - i learned a ton about self compassion just doing daily(ish) meditations using a low cost meditation app, get books from the library, but seek different voices than just the ones in your head ;) ). And also, let yourself feel tired and uninterested. Your brain is telling you to rest.
      As far as the work, home, cleaning, lack of $ rut goes... what do you do that is just for you Gabby? Do you take 10 minutes a day to sit outside, read a book, do nothing? I know I speak about it ad nauseum, but joining a volunteer group has been a life saver/changer for me. Costs zero dollars. I show up, do meaningful stuff to help people and have made a new circle of very quality friends. I know when we go through this infidelity and divorce stuff, we tend to isolate and hide, hibernate, but human connection and finding meaning are essential to healing. I'm reading a book now about surviving divorce (old news but I'm better able to read it now and curious) and the author specifically talks about the healing power of volunteer work.
      And I understand that we all just have a mood sometimes. God knows as I am cruising the peri-menopause highway I am moody AF. I'm trying now to notice timings and admit to myself that it can't all be because of the divorce...
      Just take care of you Gabby. Self care isn't about spending money on facials and pedicures. Its about giving your mind and body what it needs. Maybe that's rest right now, good food, slowing down your pace, giving yourself a pass from some of the cleaning etc. Xoxoxo

  26. Hi Still Standing1, thanks for checking out on us. Is good to know that someone out that cared for us.
    I will proceed and agreed with my H on the divorce. I don't see any point continue to holding on this relationship since he had no intention to work on it. He desperately want to make their relationship official and that's the reason he pushed for the divorce.
    I met the OW yesterday at the office corridor and she is showing off to me again with her "happy face" and stared and me in one kind. I don't care what she trying to pull me down. I treated her like an invisible woman. I have to said, this show how immature she is. She thought that she is the winner but to me she is the loser. A loser that built her own happiness by destroying people. This is not a true happiness.
    I'd learn to bake some cookies over the weekend and it turned out to be very good. My 1st tried. I nvr had a chance to do this back then but now i am trying to pick up and learn a lot of new stuff.

    Life still go on.


    1. Lost_AA, all I have to say is the OW can smirk all she wants because she just signed up with a cheater. If he is choosing to go public with her I suspect his "public" won't look at him as a man of integrity. Besides, won't be long before she is the OW left behind when his next OW steps in with a shinier smile and fewer inhibitions that the current model. Ugh, these guys are worthless sometimes. Hang in there. You've got your integrity intact and that is a whole lot more than he has. Head up. Stand tall.

    2. Hi Beach Girl, I love this "she just signed up with a cheater".
      I do not know how other's will look at them but as i know both of them don't really care about it as they feel their love is more than anything else. Probably it's still new and fresh. I do not how long will the newness or excitement will fade off..i can't control about it..what i can do now is to control my own thinking, take good care of myself. No matter how many times i fall, i always bounce back and i am looking fwd to the day where i can bounce back faster.


    3. Lost_AA,
      I'm not sure you're able to see it yet but what you're writing is a lot different than what you were writing when you first came to this site. I think it's wonderful that you're seeing your own worth and coming to realize how toxic this man is. I know it hurts. And it will continue to hurt. But by respecting and valuing yourself, you are literally shifting how you show up the world and that is incredible.
      You are controlling what you can control, which is you.
      Brava to you!!

    4. A big THANK you to you, Elle that you remembered about me. Yes, people learned, people do i...i might be out of the track some of the time but i grow stronger each and everyday.
      They will never understand how hurt it will be unless they were in our shoes. I think all of us here did a very good job. We fall but we have each other's support. I really appreciate that you created this sites.


  27. I find myself leaning more and more out of my marriage. I think I've come to realize that I'm probably just one of those women who will never be able to forgive the infidelities and even if he made a complete 180 (which he won't) I would probably continue to see him as who he is.

    There is still one little thread holding me in. Ok ... technically 3 little threads ... but one more so than the other 2. My 10 year old. How do I tell him? I find myself talking to him more and more about the possibility of moving and last night while I was laying with him I mentioned that if we had to "consolidate" he wouldn't have to share a room.

    For background information - he's the one who clued me in on what dad was doing back in 2017. He's in the "know" as much as a then 8 year old could be.

  28. Kimberley it’s so sad when are kids get wind of what’s going on. The first time my ex cheated my eldest was 8 and I managed to paper over the cracks so he didn’t know what was happening then the 2nd d day he was 12 and there was no way I could hide it from him. It was heartbreaking to see him have to deal with his dads selfish actions and all I could do was comfort and reassure him as best I could, he’s going to be 15 in a few weeks and he came through it stronger I think. Time will only tell whether what he had to bear will have an impact on his teenage years. Kimberley from what I’ve read on your posts your children are your priority and you will make the decisions that are best for you and your family. It doesn’t seem like your h wants to put in the hard work to repair the marriage and that’s exactlt why your contemplating leaving and why the hek would you stay with a man that is unwilling to get to grips with his behaviour. This section has grown over the years I for one never thought I’d be in the divorced part of this site, it took me 5 years to get to that point. Take your time Kimberley things will unfold one way or another and you are in safe hands. We have your back. Hugs xx

    1. Sam - thank you for this. I've teetered on and off this board a lot in the past 19 months. I come here and think I'm finally strong enough to make the decision ... and then I lean back to the other side a little. I keep wondering if my expectations of recovery are too high but then I realize, my heart break - my rules, right?

      He just wants everything to go away. He wants me to stay the course of recovery - but doesn't want to do anything to get himself or our marriage there. His lines of "I chose you," "it won't ever happen again," etc. just aren't enough. Actions speak louder than words ... but in my case I'm getting neither. Status quo ... lift up the rug and sweep it all under to never see the light of day again.

      LLP's post about cake eaters really resonated with me. WH posted something about having a "rock star" wife this weekend. But really what it was about was that I wasn't raising a stink about something that he's getting to do that he wouldn't have gotten to do if we were separated. And yet, 2 years ago I would have been thrilled to be acknowledged as any kind of wife in the public eye.

      Times have changed. I've changed. It's time to get my shit kickers on and find me a tiger to ride.

    2. It's so interesting that you're recognizing that, Kimberly. That whole "rock star" stuff -- it's manipulation, isn't it? Rewarding you for being a "good sport".
      I have a hunch you've already got the tiger, Kimberly.

  29. We’re Right beside you Kimberley : ) xx

  30. I tried posting a big long message yesterday but I don’t think it worked:(

    I’ll try again but shorter 😂
    I left my husband 3 weeks ago, since then things have gone up and down. The first weekend I left he went to the OW and spent the night (lied to me about it 3 times before I got the truth). The OW is also married, her husband was out of town. Very classy to do it in their home. I’m sure they have been together in my home as well especially since I moved out. I told the husband of the OW, he did not believe me and the OW said I was crazy and ruined my marriage so now I’m trying to ruin theirs.
    Apparently this made my H and her stop seeing eachother for a little bit I don’t know if for good or not. Then my H starts calling me, he came over to drop off my mail and finally tells me “the whole truth”. He comes with me to counselling the day after that and when I say I need proof it’s over he starts blaming me for my anger. I calm down and then he says we can’t communicate so we should just call it quits. I end up agreeing to that but more in frustration. I immediately called a mediator and a realtor to sell our home. Since then we haven’t spoken at all. Just individually spoke with the mediator and the realtor. I thought maybe he would wake up when things got real but I guess it’s just over. I’m so frustrated because he told me in July that he loved me but isn’t in love with me and said he’d go to counselling but it turns out he was cheating on me the whole time. Of course counselling wouldn’t work. It was like he was stringing me along until he figured out if his affair was real. I guess it must be if he refuses to end it and if he won’t even make an attempt to repair things with me. I think I’m just in such denial, I don’t believe that the person I loved would possibly be ok with ending our marriage on such a horrible note. It’s really strange to think I’ll never talk to him again (we don’t have kids so there won’t be any reason to speak) and he doesn’t even care. It’s like our relationship never existed. It just feels like it’s not him but it is. I try to remind myself that every day.

    1. HM,
      Your relationship, as I suspect you know, is highly unhealthy. You need to disengage from him. You can't trust a word he says.
      Have you heard of the 180? It's a way of removing yourself emotionally (and sometimes physically) from the relationship. It helps you begin your healing but it also forces him to deal with your absence. At this point, even with the separation, you're both highly involved with each other. Which means that, even if your interaction is unhealthy, it's still there.
      Give this a read and see what you think:

    2. I doubt he will ever contact me, it’s so hard to think he has just moved on to someone new and hasn’t considered the pain. We are getting things in order for the divorce already and he hasn’t even flinched. I was really doing well, doing the 180 working on me. Just seems like a huge set back to have him actually say he for sure wants a divorce. Has anyone experienced a complete change in the relationship after the H says that and rejects you over and over? I know I can survive on my own I already am and have been but I still want the chance to have that “marriage #2” and have it better than ever.
      Will he even ever feel bad or regret anything?
      Ughhh.... why do I even care?

    3. Hi HM, i experienced this the same as you. He never contact me except to request for a divorce. My H told me that he is so proud of himself to make this decision.

      "Has anyone experienced a complete change in the relationship after the H says that and rejects you over and over? "--> Yes i did. He became someone that i no longer understand/knew. Everything that he used to hate last time become something that he is doing now. Betrayal/Lie...someone that he don't like become his lover now...He used to appreciate all family gathering but now he will only spend time with the OW...etc...

      HM, we cared too much that is why we are suffering. We need to learn to let go and love our-self. The only person that we need to deal with is our own-self.



  31. One more thing about my situation, my husband puts on a show for everyone. He will never admit even to his closest friends that he did this. It will all just look like I’ve gone crazy. I kind of feel I have a bit but for good reason. His actions have made me react sometimes calmly sometimes not so calm. It really feels like people that haven’t been in this situation can’t understand what it does to a person. If I could get anything through to him it would be for him to actually feel this pain to understand it. I guess that’s not possible though.

  32. HM, I so feel you. I could have written so much of what you've posted here and did, back when I was going through the wringer with my ex. You have experienced real trauma. Your roller coaster of feelings and reactions in this situation and to your H's shitty behavior is NORMAL. You are not crazy. and yes, 100%, people who have not been in this situation simply have no idea what it is like or how painful it is or how crazy making it is.
    Your H is deep in the affair fog and denial. They are all wrapped up in the illusion they've built for themselves about their "relationship" (i.e. relationshit) with the OW. They are telling themselves anything they have to to justify what they are doing, even or especially if that's retelling history to make you the bad guy.
    I was also a person who wanted that chance at a second marriage and yet my h was a liar. He faked his way through marriage counseling and was still involved with the OW the whole time. He even "took a break" from her for 2 weeks to see if his feelings for me (that he had been systematically taking away for five plus years) would magically come back. What an ass. It's all self serving bullshit so they can fake that they are a good guy.
    And of course hearing him say for sure he really wants the divorce is painful and triggering. My ex told me, finally, in one of our marriage counseling sessions and I completely lost my shit. I raged at him and told him what a lying, fake, crazy sack of shit he was.
    I had a friend (actually his sister) tell me at the time, that he was going to wake up one day and regret what he's done and want me back and by the time he did, I wouldn't want him any more. Guess what? She was right. That doesn't mean I am over it, or the hurt or the rejection. That doesn't mean it isn't painful as hell when he's dating another hollow porn star chippy and wants to introduce them the our kids. But it does mean that I now see what a fake, shallow, superficial and enormously selfish person he grew into. And I see much more clearly how bad our marriage was for me for so long and how much he took me for granted and how weighed down I was by him and his stuff. Yes, we created that dynamic together, but he was never supportive. Even the worst of my health challenges somehow ended up about him. So even though I am sometimes still sad, hurt, and feel regret, I know he is the worst person in the world for me. That he has proven himself over and over to be incapable of true remorse and change.
    Will your h regret anything or feel bad ever? I'm going to say yes. Chances are he already knows that he's acting like a shit person and his behavior is a cover. He may one day down the road, regret not working things out when you offered (those are exact words from my ex) and unless you see true remorse and change, I hope you are strong and brave enough to choose yourself. My ex asked to reconcile once after a serious DUI accident. He was going to stop drinking and get his shit together. I said at the time " i need to see what you do" two weeks later he was having beers to test to see if he was truly physically addicted and when I asked about the OW he replied that "they weren't ina relationship now but he wasn't ruling it out in the future." zero effort to earn my trust. Zero effort to do better or deal with his addictions.
    So for you HM, I know that may not be encouraging. I know how much you want your H to wake up and come home. And it does happen. But also for now, focus on you, build a life for yourself. Take care of you, work on your stuff. Get to therapy. It will pay off no matter what happens. And come here where you will ave support form the army of women who get it. Sending you hugs and love.

    1. Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that for me. I’m currently sitting in the waiting room at a counsellor’s office. I’m hoping that they can help me with my self esteem, I’ve seen a lot of therapists so far. It’s hard on the days where I’m alone which I’m sure is the same for most people on here. My main problem is that I never had any boundaries and I’m pretty weak when it comes to enforcing them. My H called me yesterday for the first time in 2.5weeks, I didn’t answer, I’m sure if I had I would have been disappointed with myself and with him. I’m sure it was regarding the sale of our home... which I had to see him for today, for the walk through of our home with the realtor. It’s pretty upsetting that we have to sell the house that we built together, we picked out everything together. I did something I shouldn’t have done, I had lunch with him after the tour. I feel bad after talking to him so much, like questioning did I say the right things, did I ruin things, was I too vulnerable? He said a few things that were good for me to hear, the OWs H contacted him which made me happy that he knows now. But I am worried that will give the OW reason to leave him and go to my H. I can not control that of course but I really couldn’t handle that. My H is now wanting to buy me out of the house instead of selling, he told me before the house was a major stressor for him. So I’m thinking he has a plan to have her move in. That’s paranoid I guess but everything I worried about before has now happened. He told me today that he doesn’t know what he wants. I’m pretty confident that he wouldn’t be willing to do the necessary work for our relationship to even work in the future. So I guess that answers that. I hope I’m strong enough to know the difference between what he is saying and what he is actually doing. But that would only come up if he even comes back.
      I would like for him to do whatever it takes but I guess I have to feel worthy of that, I’m not there yet. I did say that to him today (that I deserve someone that’s willing to do whatever it takes)
      Maybe one day...
      He said s that he can’t handle being accountable or responsible for someone else right now... so why is he in another relationship? He said he hasn’t spoken with her but I doubt that don’t believe anything you hear right?...
      I feel like no matter what I do it’s wrong. I’ve joined a meet up and it meets on Thursday. I’m pretty nervous about it, it’s ladies only so that’s good but I feel a bit like I still have to put myself out there which is so scary.
      I don’t have a choice not to work on me, it’s either that or let this whole thing kill me. I am curious what life would be like if I actually loved and valued myself? I feel like I take 1 step forward and 10 steps back, when does that stop? I hope soon!

  33. Having a pretty low day today, feeling like poo.
    I keep reading peoples posts, they are helpful in calming me down so thank you all so much! ❤️💕
    Just want to feel better now!

    1. HM I am sorry you were having a bad day. I know they come and go and especially when you are so early post dday and your unfaithful spouse is putting you through the ringer with their waffling (and oh, my ex was the waffle king).
      And that whole he cant handle being accountable or responsible for someone else right now thing? what a selfish piece of shit he is. He's so not ready to take responsibility for what he has done. Please be careful about how much of his self-serving toxic bs you expose yourself to. Not helpful or healthy for you.
      I hope you went to that meet up and continue to find ways to get out and connect with new people.

  34. I have been super busy with work so I haven't had a chance to keep up much but I am keeping all you ladies in my thoughts. I had a really poignant dream last night. I dreamt that I was to meet my husband after his gig at a restaurant. I left the gig location-a hotel-and walked to the restaurant. But then he wasn't there so I went back to find him (this is the story of our life. He gets plans confused, forgets, blows off time,... basically has been unreliable with plans. I run around trying to find him, coordinate, remind him, text, hound.....). When I got there, someone told me she saw him hanging out with some women and his band. She said he was making out with one of the women. When I finally found him, he blew it off saying it was just a kiss and acted like I was making a big deal out of nothing and gaslighted me. I woke up with this realization that I have been running myself ragged back and forth trying to get him to meet me and show up. And he just takes it for granted and gaslights me.
    We are making plans for a last, short round of counseling. I no longer feel that enthused about it but we are "doing it for the kids." But I had him over to deal with some business last night and he stayed for dinner--and I couldn't wait for him to leave. I have so little bandwidth for how much energy he takes from me, he didn't even do anything wrong or annoying, I just love having space to myself and not having to navigate his moods and needs. We are planning to try 5 sessions with a new therapist that I picked. Not hopeful but going to try.

    1. MBS hope you are holding up ok. Doing it for the kids is always and ok place to start.
      You sound just drained and exhausted and that dream is telling you something about his impact in your life. I find the same with my ex now too. I try to minimize the interactions and time spent because although there's nothing "wrong" overtly, he's still in his same, "i'm the interesting victim" mentality, talking out both sides of his mouth, needing validation and completely uncaring/clueless about how his choices impact others. Oh and dramatic. So fucking dramatic about every little thing. Even in a recent scenario with our daughter who is 19, he matched her drama level and I remember thinking dude yu are forty something, you need to be taking down the drama level for this child not adding to it. My ex still sucks at boundaries and while his mediocre, enabling therapist has tried to work with him on it, its all about using the word boundary to do his selfish shit and less about respecting the boundaries of others. Its tragic. I know he's trying but he's just a hot mess.
      For your situation, it so important that the space has shown you just how much of a drain he is. Maybe these sessions are a chance for you to air that. Don't hold that back. Maybe he just doesn't know. For real. These guys are so used to us being in charge of all the emotional labor in the family that when we finally say FTS, they don't know what to do, how to act or how to step up. You also are not obligated to stay or fix it if you are getting clear that you are better off without him.
      Good luck MBS, just know we're here and thinking about you.

    2. Thanks SS1. Everything you said is spot on. Your descriptions of your ex are very familiar right down to the misuse of "boundaries" to be self absorbed and the enabling therapist. I do think my H is no longer a total hot mess but still enough of one that I don't want to be around him regularly. The main thing I hope to get out of this therapy is for some open acknowledgement of his dysfunctional thinking and reactivity so that some of his passive-aggressive, gaslighting and self pitying responses can be tamed a bit. I have anxiety about being divorced because it it might escalate his self pitying, irrational and retaliatory behavior and that stuff just stresses me out. They make me crazy and question my sanity still. He trying and changing in significant ways but he needs constant reinforcement and support from others to keep himself in check. He is in a place where I think he can acknowledge this side of himself so I hope that after therapy I will be able to call it out instead of falling for it. Today he acknowledged that he lies and misleads... that was huge. He is working his 12 step program which helps but he has alot to work on. Because he is working on personal growth, albeit with some striking but inconsistent results, there are times where I see potential. But mostly I hope that we can lay it on the table and diffuse some of his normal crazy-making behavior. The therapist I chose is trained by Terry Real whose work I adore and think is revolutionary. He calls out men's sh*t and takes women's complaints seriously. So I am hoping.

  35. The OWs husband contacted me the other day. I’m more confused now than ever. The stories my h and the ow are telling don’t match. At this point I don’t know what to believe. I’m so stupid to even try to fight for my husband. He won’t end the affair but says they haven’t been talking.
    I told him I was on a dating site which is true and that I found one of our mutual friends on there. He lost it, he didn’t yell but he did say “please don’t date him”. It was a nice reaction to get because I know it bothered him. In reality I am not planning to date anyone at all for a long while. It is kind of fun to see what’s out there though. Any way just struggling and need something to change. Nothing is happening or changing it’s so frustrating. I’m seriously stuck.

    1. Reply, HM I'm sorry she reached out to you. Of course its confusing. That was, I'm sure, her intention. She's got a vested interest in you giving up. I'd believe 0% of what she told you. I'd also take anything your h tells you with giant boulder sized grains of salt. They lie to protect themselves, they lie because they think they are shielding you from harm. And they have gotten in the habit of lying and hiding to cover their tracks. So unless he is on the all in remorse track, I'd remain skeptical. So hard tho. So painful.
      Don't feel stupid for staying and fighting. I did for so long. I needed to be able to look back and know that I did everything I could to save the ship. I needed my kids to know I did my best.
      And yes, when they find out that we are dating and the shoe is on the other foot, they realize they don't like it. It is often a reality check.They seem to think that we will always be there in the wings, eagerly waiting to take them back, the safety net. Its a bit of a shock when they realize we are not and that other may want what they have so blithely set aside.
      Thing is HM, and I speak from experience, dating is another roller coaster. It is not for those with fragile self esteem or who have not sorted out their shit and it is STILL hard. And right now yu have a highly activated attachment system. If you try dating now, or any time soon (and you are always going to think you are ready way before you really are) you are going to repeat the pain of the betrayal over and over every time someone ghosts you, or decides they don't want to go out on date number three or whatever. I started dating way too soon and to say I put myself through the ringer is an understatement. Looking is kind of fun, but it is a slippery slope. And chatting with new guys can be a distraction because the attention and connection feels good, but I promise you it is an illusion and a way of numbing ourselves no different that food or alcohol. SO please, consider my advice and just don't for the time being. Instead focus on you and your own healing.
      Hm do you have a therapist that you see for individual therapy? If not, please consider finding one. It is essential to have a skilled guide and helper right now. This person, when experienced with marriage, family systems, infidelity and trauma, will help you figure out what needs to change, help you unpack all the hurt and help you get to un-stuck.
      Hang in there kiddo. You are on one of the toughest parts of this road. There is so much uncertainty. Try to just let that be and ride it out.
      I also recommend meditation. Was a life saver for me.

    2. You are for sure right, I’m not ready to date at all. I guess I just don’t know how to just leave ve myself for myself(huge problem I’m aware). I was really fun to see my H’s reaction about it though. I guess that’s a bit manipulative so I shouldn’t talk about that with him again.
      I don’t want anymore information I just want him out of the house so she can not go there again. Zero respect. I was going to go to yoga last weekend but then all this craziness happened and I couldn’t function again. The pain is so horrible I just want it to go away. I’m on very high alert at all times. Not fun at all.

  36. The OW is so mean.. she talked to someone beside her about me and both stare at me at laugh out loud. I do not know what she is trying to archive by doing so, probably want to piss me off but i am telling myself "ignore her,ignore her".
    Did any of you encounter such an immature & mean OW?


    1. Lost AA, I'm sorry to hear the OW in your case is extra nasty. I think it just fits in with a pattern of her being a shit person. Some people are broken and hurt and cheat for that reason. SOme are just blindly selfish and aggressivley, nasty and it seems like she falls in that category. Don't forget, when you remain calm in the face of her antics, you look like the mature adult and she looks like an immature smacked ass.
      You do right to ignore her. On some level she knows she sucks, an she knows she has done wrong. Coming after you is a way to turn you into the "villian" so she can feel better about what she has done.
      Lost AA, have you considered what you can do to protect yourself from these people? You owe them nothing. If they are creating a hostile work environment, perhaps you can have a confidential discussion with your HR department. Is your company big enough that you can transfer to a different department? I know you are going through so much right now, so it is hard to contemplate change, but this work environment seems toxic for you. I wish I could teleport you out of there to s cush job on a tropical island!!!

    2. Hi SS1, actually we are working in different department and different building but yet we still have chance met at company's corridor. She will definitely pass by my office on her way to car park.
      I kept reminding myself, stay calm and ignored her whenever i bump into her in the corridor. It's not easy but i think i did a great job..(self-pat)


    3. Lost_AA, it sounds like you handled it really well. I'm glad she is not in your face everyday. And remember, every time you take the high road, you leave her and that nonsense further and further behind. She knows she can't hold a candle to you and that's why she's so nasty. Hang in there!

  37. Hey everyone! It's been so quite. Where my girls at? I have been insanely, crazily busy but in such a good way. I have been working hard at my business and signed several new projects, am learning that I need to charge more for what I am doing. Making amazing progress. But at the same time working so hard, that I am doing little else. So while I schedule my day each morning, I need to start including breaks, self care and exercise.
    Exercise has really suffered. I've been dealing with some kind of issue with my hip, low back, pelvic floor and it has really been keeping me in pain and off the trail. Not being able to just go crank out five miles in the course of an hour for the last 5 months ( coupled with dating a lovely man who like to eat out. A lot.) and I'vepiled on a good 15 lbs. But you knwo what? For the first time in my life, I'm no melting down over it. It's a shrug. I've started to adjust me eating and drinking and am trying to add more movement into my day. it took a long time to pile on and it will take a long time to come off again. But I can still look in the mirror and like what I see, know that my value isn't determined by the number on the scale or walking around feeling hungry.
    And finally, things are going so nicely with my young man. We've been dating for seven months and things are still just so nice. We go out on many dates, he's so thoughtful and gentle. I can just be myself. And ... he's told me he loves me! Wow. It's a little it of a scary thing, but I am pretty sure I love him too, while I am sorting through my own shit. I know that doesn't sound convincing, but it's the reality of where I am post infidelity and I am being as real with him about that as I can. Anyway, Would love to hear from you all. Gabby, the offer still stands to talk about your business idea any time. Elle can give you my email. xoxo my lovelies.

    1. Hi SS1
      I'm here.
      I typed out a very long response, but decided not to send.
      I am SO happy to hear all is going well with your young guy. So happy in fact, that when I first read it, I had such a big smile thinking how happy you sound and how you deserve it. :)
      I'm also thinking of Sam A, Selkie, and Phoenix. Longing to hear from Phoenix.
      Gabby xo

    2. SS1,
      It's so easy to let the self care fall off when you have a busy schedule. I have been off of work for 2 months now and still have a hard time figuring out how to schedule in exercise and proper meals. Im also putting on weight again. I have to learn not to be bothered by it because the alternative is not healthy either (not eating at all). I have a very hard time eating the right things. What I actually want is crap so that's usually what I have.
      I'm happy to hear you are having feelings for someone again now, if he is worthy of you he will be ok if you sort through your own things while still being together. I for sure feel like I don't trust anyone, I'm not sure how to develop that again. Oh well I'll get there hopefully one day.
      Hope everyone is doing well!
      Take care:)

    3. Thanks friends, Im feeling really happy. And I am learning so much being in a relationship with a healthy person with boundaries and self awareness. I jokingly say he understands consent better than I do, but honestly it's true. I enjoy the shit out of him. Not saying I still don't get scared or hyper or crazy or all my usual, but I'm better at dealing with it and he's ok with me as I am. :)

  38. Hey everyone!
    It's been a while since I posted. I am so glad I found this page. It really is the thing that helped me so much in the beginning. I've been try to get out and do things on my own lately. I've been to 4 meet ups 2 that were girls only and one drop in soccer (I can hardly move from playing for 2 hours) and one fancy wine tasting event. I've also started grief counselling for the loss of my father and they will help me with this loss as well. I'm doing a self esteem course starting this week. I find myself extremely busy and some days it's just too much but others I feel happy that I'm not in bed feeling so horrible.
    I have several bad days still. I put myself on a dating app to prove to myself I could do it and a bit for the attention as well but I found my best friends boyfriend on the site. That really hit home and I spiralled a bit since then. I confronted him and forced him to tell her. He claims that he did not make the profile and that someone stole his pictures and posted them on there. I don't believe him at all but my friend is trying to believe him. I actually told my stbx about this and he said that it sounds like a lie he would use if he got caught.

    My stbx and I talk a lot lately, he is not doing well, but refuses to get help. It's so frustrating because his life is actually so awful right now. He lives in an apartment with no furniture and he works all the time. When he isn't working he is in bed not sleeping or talking to me and crying. He doesn't want me back at all though which I think I'm fine with now. Is it weird to talk to him every other day? I'm really just trying to keep my feelings out of it and just hope that he does one day get help.

  39. HM, sounds like you are carving out a good path for yourself, one step at a time. Getting out and being social, finding a tribe in real life ( plus on here) is so important.
    Of course you will still have bad days, lordy that stuff with the friend's boyfriend was a trip to trigger city. Kudos to you for speaking up. It is absolutely a lie and a pretty pathetic one at that. I hope your friend finds her way.
    So, about the STBX, he refuses to get help, lives in misery and only works "doesn't want you back" but still lets you/expects you to do emotional work for him? I'm concerned for you from a perspective of emotional safety and expending energy. What does this do for you? It keeps you attached, keeps yu in orbit and keeps reminding you of the situation you are trying to leave behind. Some people get divorced and end up friends, that's cool but it takes a lot of time, work and change. He's not showing you that he deserves your time and energy. He just doesn't. So my question is, what need does this fill for you? Is it a desire to be needed? Is there some kind of validation? (We all need that to some degree of course) Maybe you can ween him off you. He won't get help because you are being his emotional support person instead. I'm saying this gently, but by being available to him emotionally, you are enabling him. And frankly, his life is not your problem any more. Save your energy for you and your healing. That's my opinion anyway. xoxo

  40. Hey everyone! Checking in to see how everyone has been doing. March was rough and it's been quiet, but we made it! I've bought some seeds and will be getting them started this weekend along with a lot of less fun but necessary and strangely satisfying yard work. And I'll have help! Things are still going well with my young man. And he's bought a house! Closing in May and moving right in, it will be a big change for us. No more hanging out in the bachelor pad with roomies where he currently lives. It is also dangerously close to our favorite pub but oh well. Time to live a little. :) Miss you all! XOXO SS1

    1. Hi SS1
      I am so happy for you things are going well. Keep it up!
      Gabby xo

  41. Hi SS1, i've been in roller-coaster mood again. He kept push for the divorce and I felt so sad to be treated like this. He removed me out from his family group chat, blocked me on some social media. Trying to convince myself that it's good as i don't have to see anything that make me sad but angel and demon always fight inside.
    It's glad to hear that you both are moving in to a new house soon.

    1. Lost_AA
      I'm sorry you are feeling sad. My ex did the same. Whilst we were married, he wouldn't let me be friends with him on his social media - because he was friends and making sexual flirty comments with other women.
      I know those roller coaster moods too. I am not in the right frame of mind to offer advice, just my sympathy that you have to be going through this sad time, and that I am thinking of you
      Gabby xo

    2. Lost AA, I'm so sorry you are on the roller coaster and are feeling sad. I know those feelings. SO hard to feel rejected, thrown away and discarded. I know I was hurt and confused when my ex unfriended me on Facebook. It was unexpected, especially because I rarely looked at his posts and was actually going in to unfriend him for my own mental health. And this was just a few months ago. Separation and divorce was described by Phoenix on here as a long slow tearing apart of two lives. And it is so accurate. Give yourself time to grieve. And even though you recognize that it is better to not be in those group chats, it is still painful, still a loss. Your ex sounds like a grade A jerk. For now, try and remember that you deserve better than he's given you. At more than three years out, when I dig into my past in therapy, I am still astonished at what I put up with (the neglect, gaslighting and being treated like nothing I did was enough) for years. All because I didn't value myself and so I didn't know that I deserved better. Now I do. Lost AA, you have worth and value too. And just because this asshole who's divorcing you can't see it, doesn't mean it's true.
      Lost AA I hope you have other supports around you, some trusted friends, a therapist who understands, your own family, some kind of group or activity. If you are a church person, maybe there's a group for women going through divorce there. Maybe you can find a running club (or some other club that combines being social with exercise - exercise can be a life saver during these times). Find new ways to take care of you and give yourself the care and nurturing you deserve.

      And PS I am not moving in with my young man. Waaaay too soon for that. I still have my own place for me and my kids and plan to keep it that way for the next couple of years. I will have to sell and move and I've tried to make my peace with that, though I know it will be hard when the time comes. But in the meantime, him moving into his own place marks a new chapter for us as a couple. No more messy house he shares with another guy where it is yucky to hang out and we have little privacy. We'll have the kitchen to ourselves and be able to spend more nights in and cook, relax and hang out. Even though it's not my place at all, I am really excited for him. This is a big step for a guy who is really finding himself after being deployed in the military overseas. And the place is so cool. It's a little row home in the city built in the 1920s. SO much character and makes me feel hopeful tat when the time comes, I will be able to find a cool place for me and the kids (my kids will be college age or older when this happens, so it will largely be me and then them coming home for summer or to visit. :) )
      Hang in there Lost AA. I know it is hard. Where you are is so hard. I hope you have found a good lawyer to help protect your rights and a good therapist to help heal your heart. XOXO SS1

  42. Hi SS1, i've been in roller-coaster mood again. He kept push for the divorce and I felt so sad to be treated like this. He removed me out from his family group chat, blocked me on some social media. Trying to convince myself that it's good as i don't have to see anything that make me sad but angel and demon always fight inside.
    It's glad to hear that you both are moving in to a new house soon.


  43. The banks are now demanding we sell the house, or they will. Life is completely shit. I don't know if I'll ever get over this anger, resentment, hurt, let down, betrayal by the ex.
    If I hear one more person say "oh maybe it's for the better, to start a new life" Ahhhh!!! I will want to throttle them.
    My home is everything to me. I've had no say in ex screwing around, no say in now the direction of my life with all his betrayals and his leaving me and the kids and no say in keeping the house - and I can't afford it myself. So ex "wins" everything and just gets to walk away into the sunset with his whore. He's taken everything away from me - down to my home.
    I ran into his skank today at the mall. I told her what a low life she is and how she contributed to the breaking up of a family-to which the dumb bitch replied "I didn't break up anything" - just confirms how selfish and self centred she is to not think about me or the kids. One warped mind she has there. I know it's often said to not say anything to her - but I have been shutting my mouth for too many years to keep the peace but if someone threatens my marriage and family and I know who, I will say something....I am not conforming to what "society" says I should say or do. Society should concentrate more on their condemnation for these cheaters. It was the right moment - of course I could have said a ton more. I did show some restraint.
    I'm over the ex emotionally, that way, but what he has done to me and the children financially, at this late stage of my life I can't see how I can ever recover.
    This is bringing about too many "fuck life" feelings - and yet I am conflicted as I love my kids and pets.

    1. SS1 to Gabby part 1
      Gabby, I'm so sorry. This must feel like all your worst nightmares are coming true. And I know it feels so invalidating when someone says "maybe for the best" because it in no way acknowledges the pain and struggle of right now. A better response might be "how can I help?"
      I know that feeling too. The pain and anger, the struggle aroudn the rejection and the idea that my ex has stolen literally everything from me, my past, the story of my family, my sense of security, what I thought my future would be and eventually my home. I know it feels like he "wins". But when I look at what a wreck of a person my ex is, he's no longer anything I want and I no longer have illusions about him riding off into the sunset to be "happy" and fulflled without me. He seems incapable of really changing and that, I am guessing, is also true for your ex.
      I'm glad you spoke out to the OW and hope you felt some relief from venting at her. But as you saw, you'll never get the acknowledgment from her that she contributed to something shitty or cause pain and harm. Likely its a combo of lack of empathy, self-centeredness and the line if bull fed to her by your ex.
      Gabby I hear you say that you are over the ex that way and I take that to mean you don't love him anymore. But what I see is that you've flipped that coin to the other side and you hate him instead. Love and hate are two sides of the same coin. Both require your time, attention and focus on another person. You're allowed to be angry, absolutely and in the face of this fresh and scary change, of course it all comes piling on. What I really want for you Gabby is to be free from the love/hate and get to a place where you just don't care about this waster anymore, where you are getting on with your life and he no longer factors except as a dwindling figure in the rear view mirror. You deserve your time and attention. Not this guy.
      Gabby the wounds from this are so deep, for all of us. It is so difficult to heal of our own, especially when we get stuck and can't get past something. You know I am a big fan of therapy. Do you have a therapist to hep you? If money and benefits are an issue, there are low cost and no cost ways to get help. Start with ICN, if you can dial a US number they may still be able to help (or do a facetime or something else) and that is on a sliding scale where you determine what you can pay, even if it's only $1. Look to local churches that offer pay what you can programs. Not sure how healthcare works where you are but there has to be some kind of mental health program that you qualify for. The thing is, Gabby, to value yourself enough to recognize that it is ok to ask for ad get help. As for the financial side, it is also ok to ask for help, start a go fund me and make it the biggest "fuck you" to him ever, if you need to.

    2. SS1 to Gabby part 2
      One of the things I've had to work on a lot in the last couple of years is learning to trust myself and that I am capable of providing for myself and my kids. I was terrified at first. I'd never had to really be responsible for myself and certainly didn't believe that I could make enough or that I was on the right track or knew what I was doing. I am slowly learning that people are more than happy to pay me to do what I do and share what I know. It is still scary AF. I'm sensing a lot of fear in you Gabby, fear for the future and your ability to care for and provide for yourself. Gabby you are more capable than you know. You don't have to be 100% ready or right, just start something, do something. You can always change direction.
      And finally, especially for the fuck life feelings, please, please please get help. There are people in your life, lives you have impacted and lives you have yet to encounter who will need the words or kindness you give them, and are worth sticking around for.
      Also what is this 'Late stage of life" stuff? You are by no means old and washed up. I have encounterexd so many alive, vibrant and amazing women in their 50s, 60s and 70s and they are an inspiration to me and also a reminder that I need to change my thinking about what life holds for me. I still have plenty of time for a rich fulfilling life and so do you.
      Gabby, I hesitate to say this, because dating is its own roller coaster, but I'd almost encourage you to get out there and see that you are not used up and washed up. Sometimes that little bit of validation that someone was interested can go a long way. You just have to be emotionally detached enough from the outcome to realize that most dates won't turn into anything. If you can approach it from a place of "i'm just going out to be social and I don't care if this goes anywhere" But I feel like you need some external validation, my love. When was the last time you did something social, even just with friends?
      XOXO and hang in there Gabby

    3. Thanks SS1. It's been a real struggle daily to just function, but having kids and pets that need you, you just have to do it. Many days I feel like my body is just on auto, tending to life whilst my mind is a mix of confusion and blankness. It's some stupid repetitive rut I am in that I just can't seem to escape.
      I do try and forget about him, but when things happen like losing the house,and going through divorce and then with the kids how he only parents when he wants, I feel he's still in my life impacting it.
      This is an example of what I have to put up with-Yesterday I drove one of the kids to their work after school as they had no way of getting there on time. Then I had to take my other kids to their sport, which finished late so I said to the one at work "tell him to pick you up" to which his reply to them was "no I'm not doing it, your mom will be finished with sport, she can do it". He just wouldn't do it!! So what am I supposed to do? He knows damn well I will do anything for the kids - but why can't he see that this is for his children and he's the parent too? He won't go and pick them up late because he doesn't want to. Won't drive his kids to things because they are too far away, yet he'll drive his whore wherever she wants to go. Too right this angers me. I have to deal with the fall out from his lack of parenting.
      Suggestions on how to deal with this sort of behaviour? Heck I get tired too, but that's what being a parent is all about - being there for your kids and not leaving them stranded or in unsafe situations - yet this selfish bastard can't see that, and that infuriates me. Especially when HE was the one wanting to get married and have kids, yet now realises it's all too hard for him as he can't live his life as free as he wants - so he's checked out for many things with the kids. The kids don't want to live with him, and he very rarely has them all for meals, and yet sometimes when money is short and he rarely asks to have them, I have to tell the kids - tell your dad he can have you for meals tomorrow etc. It pains me they go there, but I prefer they get fed a meal. They all have such a volatile relationship with him. I wish I was financial enough just to keep him out of their lives as I believe he has a negative impact on their lives with their up down relationship.
      SS1 - as for me dating. Yukk. I have for some reason completely turned off any feelings for a relationship and the thought of being intimate repulses me. His emotional and sexual betrayals perhaps have traumatised me deeper than I think and the knowledge that he's paid for sex really repulses me - even though I'd be in a relationship with another man and not him, it'd still make me feel uncomfortable. Despite my depressive episodes, I am happy within myself and don't need a man to validate me. And where do you find the time? Between kids, work, pets, I am exhausted, probably added to with the emotional trauma from all this shit doesn't help.
      I've tried therapy, and as nice as they have been, none have helped me heal me. I don't know what I am looking for, what sort of therapy will help. Maybe I should see a sex therapist even though I have no intention of ever being in a relationship again, but will they help me get over the cheating and the repulsion I have? Any one ever been to sex therapy?
      I do have a social life. I have amazing women friends. I have gone out a few times with my single mom friends and we go to places that don't cost any money to get into so it becomes an inexpensive night....and I do have a good time when I am out, but then I come home and worry about losing my home and the nightmares begin again.
      Gabby xo

  44. Hi Gabby - part 1
    Hi Gabby, sorry it has taken so long for me to write back. I have been thinking about you and I wanted to make sure I could write and be coherent. Thanks for writing everything out. I hope getting it out on “paper” even helped a little.
    I’m so glad to hear you are going out and being social and have some great friends. I often go out with friends and don’t even buy a drink! Just a cheap night out, lol. DO as much of that as you can get away with. 😊 I know we don’t get a whole picture of a person’s real life here. We come here in pain and put that out on these pages, so often I at least, think the situation maybe much more dire than it is. I’m so glad you have some fun times and are getting out to be social.
    And I can understand like the loss of your house is so painful. Like just one more kick from the universe and how much more are you supposed to take. And I’m not going to tell you it doesn’t suck and isn’t scary or could be for the best. Bugger all that nonsense. Of course it hurts and sucks and is scary. But Gabby, you are more capable than I think you give yourself credit for. I’m not clear on the laws where you are or what your arrangements are but I hope you are getting regular alimony and child support of some kind from your ex. If you are not, there must be laws that dictate what that should be. If you’ve got nothing formal in place, it is time to get that done. If you do, sit down and make a plan with what you know and figure out what you can afford in rent. Taking a good hard look and making a plan will give you some sense of control. If you don’t feel up to it, I would recommend looking online for a divorce support group. Many churches offer them and so do the really good lawyers, many of whom will do pro bono work to help women who could not otherwise afford them (for example, I saw a woman family lawyer for two sessions and she reviewed our moderation agreement for free). There is help and resources and support out there for you. It’s OK to ask for help.

  45. Hi Gabby Part 2
    On to the big topic, re: your ex choosing to parent whenever he wants and not helping when your kids ask to be picked up etc. I’m saying this as gently as I can. Stop expecting him to be anything other than he is. He’s a selfish ass, right? No amount of pushing or heartburn or anger from you is going to change him or bend him to step up and do what he ought to. Nothing. And in taking steps like “tell him to pick you up” you are handing him all your power. For real. You are giving him another opportunity to stick it to you and he clearly enjoys doing that (the wanker). So stop engaging with him. Act like he is a non factor and not available to help. Instead, ask other, reliable people in your life for help. Kids and sports equal other parents and families that you know who are also going to sports. Can you not ask them to carpool? Alternate days? Why do you have to do all the driving? You don’t but it means asking for help and opening the doors to other people, who more than likely are very willing to help and/or have one less night of driving in exchange. For the teen who has a job, is there not public transportation where you are? (There may not be. Bus service is not great where I live and trains are non-existent in the burbs). If they are old enough to work, they are also old enough to make some plans for getting themselves to their job. One of their friends must have a car. My daughter was one of the few with a car in her group and she loved driving her friends around, often picking up her bestie from work. What about one of your great girlfriends? Can you ask them to be available in a pinch so you don’t have to engage with the ex? The less you struggle with this man the better your life will be. In that specific situation, it sounds like you did the communication through your child. Much easier for your ex to tell the child to piss off (sadly) than to say that to you. SO in general, plan your life as if your ex is dead. For real. He may as well be. Don’t count on him and don’t expect him to change who he is and don’t try to force him to parent the way you think he should. It sucks. Royally. For you and the kids. But you will only do yourself harm and continue your pain if you keep trying to change who he is.
    Gabby where are your family? Parents? Siblings? Cousins etc.? Are they distant from you? Is your relationship with them OK? Can you ask them for help? My sis and her husband came out for a visit, because I just needed help with the house and he fixed a toilet leak that had literally been that way for a decade. He just up and did it without being asked. But it is also OK to ask for what you need. Who in your life can help you? And if you don’t have family or can’t rely on them, I am going to point back to church groups (I’m not churchy but I will always take free help) and other support groups available to women. Are there government programs you qualify for? If so those groups are expert at connecting you with resources.

  46. Hi Gabby part 3
    As for meals and money, may I suggest that instead of that being random and from a position of crisis, you work with your ex (vie email) and plan a regular night a week where the kids go there for dinner. One night a week. That’s one night off for you where you don’t have to worry about food or budget and it becomes reliable and predictable for you and the kids. I know the two nights a week my ex provides dinner for our son are a nice break for me. I go to art class one night and out with my young man on the other. Its predictable and so allows for planning. It will be good for you and the kids.
    On to sex. I’m sensing that this issue is much deeper and older than may appear on the surface. The sexual and emotional betrayals are deeply traumatizing and its no surprise to me that any type of intimacy feels risky to you. It probably ties in to a lot of other lessons and values about sex that yu learned from family and the culture around you. You think your ex and the OW should be feeling more guilt and shame than they are, so you are feeling it for them. I think also, its possible that a person who was emotionally skillful, could help you feel safe and trust and after that comes an openness to more intimacy. Thing is Gabby, I don’t think you feel a whole lot of trust about anything or anyone, least of all yourself. The thing about therapists is that there are a million “nice” ones out there. Bu that doesn’t mean they have the skill or training necessary to guide you toward healing. Also keep in mind that you are not going to feel magically healed after a few sessions. The right therapist may actually make you feel really uncomfortable because they will be challenging core beliefs and old habits that we cling to to keep us safe. If you are thinking a sex therapist would help, I’m in agreement. That question is your mind telling you what you think you need. Find someone who is qualified in sex therapy and trauma, family systems. And. You are not obligated to work with someone who just doesn’t jive for you. I think it is possible to get over the repulsion and feel more open and optimistic in life and also that you, yourself can feel safe and grounded in who you are. If you can, I’d recommend even starting with some reading. Lots of stuff at the library by Brene Brown that won’t be embarrassing to check out. I wish I could lend you all the books on my kindle!
    Gabby I hope this helps. Please give yourself credit for making it this far and for being a great mom. And trust yourself that you will get through this next thing and the move and you will be OK. And finally, look for help in your real life. People are out there just waiting to make a difference in your life and it is OK to receive that help.

  47. Hey friends, I need some help or commiseration or hugs. So I have been dating my nice young man for some time now and everything was going really nicely until a few weeks ago wen he shows up at my house. Not sober. We live 40 minutes apart. I told him at the time this was not OK and he could have said he was not OK to drive when I invited him over. I didn't realize it at the time, but this has been so triggering to me. Like ts been weeks and I just don't feel the same. We talked about it more recently, but I just don't feel better. I've been trying to give myself time and be open, but I am just completely numb. I've read that this is normal when you have disorganized attachment which can happen with a traumatized parent and with your own trauma as a child. That's me in a nutshell. And I think I need to talk to him about it again, because I can sense us going on this path where I am no longer 100% in and so he is pursuing to get more from me and I am pulling away despite my best efforts. But the alcohol thing scares me. I am not doing this again and it fits in with a whole set of patterns in his behavior. and I can tell he uses me as his brakes, instead of trusting himself to handle and make choices about alcohol. He has a similar patterns with food too. And I can barely manage my own shit, let alone be the brakes for two of us.
    Add in to the mix that while I am feeling disconnected and dissatisfied, I hire a landscaper. He is clearly attracted to me and maybe flirting. And I feel that I am vulnerable to this attention. Fuck. I am not going to do something stupid. So landscaper asked me about my business and he wants to get together to talk through potentially hiring me, but as we get close to making plans it becomes clear to me that it is really not about that at all. So after much heart burn I work up the courage to tell him that I am already dating and should not meet if it is social vs business. I did the right thing, but it was really awkward. And I know a few weeks ago, before the drunk driving incident, I would have had no issue being straight up about not being single right out of the gate.But now I am not all in anymore. I am so tired and so sad. Soo soo soo sad that I keep finding myself here.Me and the young man are going away for a long weekend. I feel like I need to be straight with him about where I am at. And feeling numbed out and why. I am leaning toward talking in the car ride. It will be a good six hours. Maybe that will clear the air and we can have a nice weekend then. I'm afraid that if I wait until after, if we have a nice weekend, I will not feel brave enough to do it. We also will see each other this Weds before the trip. Do I say something then? Ug barf. I don't even know what I need to say. I'm not really clear on what I want. I hate this. At least I dealt with the landscape guy, but I feel sad about that too. I'm just whining now. FML. I'm going for a walk.

    1. SS1 - the bright side - you are able to recognize what is going on in the moment rather than finding it out months down the road. You see behaviors in them ... as well as in yourself. That's a tough place to come to!

      Question - how set are you on going on this trip? I would be more inclined to have this conversation BEFORE the 6 hour car trip. I'm projecting here - but my trip would be ruined if the conversation didn't go the way I wanted it to and then you're away from home without a way home that isn't going to cost more than it should.

      I think we come to a point where we just don't want to have to find a fixer-upper. I mean ... isn't that kind of what we were already doing in the previous relationship?

      And from a personal standpoint I want to applaud you for letting the landscaper down and recognizing what was going on. You and I both know how tempting it is to let someone else soothe the discomfort away.

      All to say - you're an amazing fucking woman! Hope you enjoyed the walk.

    2. Hi SS1
      Here's a big hug for you my dear friend.

      I'll reiterate what Kimberly and Therese have said -
      Have the conversation before getting in the car.
      Not wise to have a conversation not knowing what way it will go when heading into a vehicle - and going a long way from home.
      Glad you shut down landscape guy. You are in a relationship with new guy and boundaries are a must on everyone's part.
      Thinking of you an hoping you can have an awesome weekend
      Gabby xo

    3. Gabby! I am so pleased to hear form you. Thank you for the support. I had the conversation with him tonight. I was ready and pretty clear on what I was going to say. I let him know that this episode had changed things for me. Sadly, I just don't think he got why and he tried to excuse the behavior as something he doesn't normally do. And he didn't really see that he needed to look beyond that. So it is kind of as I had feared. We are still going away this weekend, but, well, we'll see. It is not promising and I still just don't know if my feelings will repair. But I feel better. I sis the right thing for myself and I'm clear that I don't want more alcohol in my life.

  48. thanks Kimberly, i really needed to hear from someone and I appreciate your response. You are right on the car trip, we would both be trapped and he might feel put on the spot. I had a good walk/run along the river, showered and then napped. I needed all those things.
    Thing is I can't fix this for him and he's got to want to get help, I think.
    And thanks for the props and such. I need encouragement sometimes (often) to remind me that I am heading in the right direction. Hugs Kimberly! Thanks for seeing and hearing me today.

  49. Still Standing
    I hesitated today because I didn’t really know how to respond except that I so feel bad for the decisions you continue to have to make! I have admired your courage from your first post... when I feel down and out I read your post of many things you have lived through and you still give me the courage to move forward! I hear how him showing up intoxicated triggered you to the brink...that said I agree with Kimberly that if I were wearing your shoes I would have to have that discussion before a car trip of that length...hell, I’m still that way with my h and we’re still just muddling our way through this shit...even if he’s doing and saying the right things now...just saying it’s still hard sometimes... I just hope you will do self care as I know you are trying and you get the chance to tell him how this effects you going forward...peace my friend...even if you don’t know if you like Elle have given me much peace...hugs!

    1. Thank you Theresa, I am so glad to hear from you. I plan on talking to him tomorrow to give us both time to process before the trip. I did some great self care yesterday and am feeling better today. And back oat you on the help and peace and support. We are all in this together and you have said words of wisdom or compassion to me and others that have helped me breathe again too. Hugs!

  50. I've been struggling more and more lately with the idea of just cutting my losses and ending this thing. I kept telling myself I would know when the time was right. But I keep wondering if the time has been right and I've just continued to talk myself out of it?

    I finally contacted a few lawyers last week. I *know* what will happen and the timing of it all. I *know* what needs to be done to get the ball rolling. But it was nice to have someone validate that for me. I chose to talk to the lawyers as mediators in hopes that if we could "resolve" this amicably then it would be better for both of us. There are days he agrees. And then there are days that he still threatens to bring down fire and brimstone.

    So I guess my question here is - how did you *know* it was the right time to end things?

    I think I've come to the point where I am sad about the idea of not having my kids with me all the time (remember, they are 10, 4 and 14 months). But it no longer brings me to my knees.

    I think I've come to terms with the idea that there will be holidays I will be alone.

    I think I've come to terms with the idea that my financial situation will be unsteady for several years until the kids are out of daycare.

    I think I've come to terms with the idea that he *probably* won't be any different than he is today because he doesn't want to admit that he has issues. And really. That's the hardest one to come to terms with. Because the hopeless romantic in me wants to think that he will wake up tomorrow and be willing to do whatever it takes to fix this!

    1. Kimberly
      My heart is aching for you. These scumbags just don't get it!!
      I didn't have a choice. Ex left to pursue his childish immature lust and is now shacked up with his current whore.
      Even though I did not have a choice - there were MANY times I just wanted him the hell out of my and our kids lives. I was hanging on for dear life -part of the romantic in me as well hoping he'd come to his senses and also as I know how hard it is financially to do it on your own.
      Before you make the decision to leave, just make sure you have a really good network of support people and some funds - because food, utilities etc are so expensive. You'll need to think of where you will be able to live if not where you currently are, and will it be easily accessible to the kids school, day care, shops, many things to consider, but please don't rush into this without having a plan. I know it can be hell living with these soulless creatures, but from my experience, doing it on your own has other debilitating challenges. I was able to turn off and block him out most of the time when he was still here.
      My ex was the same as your husband - didn't want to admit he had issues that made him the asshole narcissist that he is - which stems from his parents and family upbringing. He never wanted to work on our relationship because he was in contact with the whores the whole time!!! I hoped he would come to his senses, but he didn't and now I don't miss him one bit and the kids tell me he's still an angry grumpy elitist piece of shit. So the current whore is happy to be around someone that is aggressive in voice and demeaning to his children - I shake my head in disbelief.
      Apparently one of the kids told me ex has really high blood pressure. I had to laugh - yes laugh! Because his mom said and he kept saying he just wants to be happy. So he's left me and the kids, and living how he wants to with his whore.....yet he's got high blood pressure??!!
      So how's that happiness working out for you ex?
      Take care Kimberly
      Thinking of you and sending big hugs

      Gabby xo

    2. Oh Kimberly, I'm so sorry you find yourself here. Sending hugs. But as you already know, no matter what happens, you will be OK.
      I didn't know it was the right time to end things. It was kind of forced upon me in my story. But I had an inkling that it was the right thing when we separated and I actually felt relief. I was away from his toxic, shitty behavior and the drama. I could breathe. And as the divorce progressed, even though I didn't want it, I could see him from the outside and start to see how effed up things had been for so long. And now that I am over a year out from divorce, wow, so clear that it was the right thing.
      We worked through a mediator rather than separate lawyers. And we saved a lot of money that way and things were pretty amicable. I got to stay in the house and he gives me enough alimony to do so. Mostly because I would not agree to a thing where the kids stayed in the house and he and I swapped. No fucking way. And although we have joint legal custody, the kids live with me full time. We do split holidays and that sucks but it works out OK. And honestly this past Christmas was the first time in actual decades that I had gloriously no dinner to cook and no drunk relatives to deal with. I had Christmas morning with the kids and we did presents and breakfast. Then they went to their dads, and I had a nice run all by myself. It was actually a nice.

      If your h won't deal with the underlying issues, he won't and you are allowed to know that that is not OK with you.

      Kimberly have you two done a separation before during any of this mess? It is possible to do a trial separation, a constructive separation, with the intent of working individually on your own stuff, with a time limit, and see how you adjust to life not together. Because maybe he really hasn't thought through what his life would be like without you and without access to the kids full time. Just an idea.

      Hang in there Kimberly.. no easy answers. But think about the life you deserve. XOXO

    3. Hi Kimberly,
      I'm so glad that you've seen lawyers and mediators and that you're clear about what's ahead if you leave. And, honestly, your reasons for staying sound like wishful thinking. He's showing you who he is. And -- god!! -- I know how much we all wished our husbands were different. But yours isn't using this to reinvent himself as a better man.
      I know how strong that pull is to stay together for your kids. But staying for them will, I suspect, lead to resentment and an unlived life. I'm not saying to leave. I'm just pointing out that your argument for staying (to avoid his "fire and brimstone" or in the hopes that he'll undergo a miraculous transformation) aren't exacting convincing at this point.
      I'm thinking along the same lines as StillStanding1, above. I'd be inclined to move forward with a separation. It will either jar him out of his complacency or he'll continue to bury his head. Either way, I wonder if things will feel more clear to you. Your kids are young enough that a shift in their living arrangements, as long as they're still with one of the parents who love them, won't affect them too much. And you just might find yourself feeling lighter.
      I know it's an excruciating decision. We're all with you, no matter what you choose. You deserve to feel loved, you deserve to trust your partner, you deserve to know that he is fully invested in your marriage.

    4. It seems that there's some similarity for my H that he didn't want to admit on his affair and reassure his family member that he is alone and there is no 3rd party outside. He never talked me again after he raised up the divorce 10 months ago. He will go through his mum to pass me the message.
      The separation don't seem to work for my case because he stayed with the OW. Probably he won't feel anything. As for me, i am slowly picking up and adapt to "Alone" life. Good & bad. When we are apart from H, you will realized how strong you actually are.

      No matter what decision you chose to be, just chose the one that makes you feel happy. There's always 2 flip of the coin. We live everyday and only die once, so choose to live happily. Anything that will makes you happy, that's the decision- no right or wrong. Spare sometime for yourself to have self-talk. You will have the answer :)

      Take care and big hugs to you.


  51. Hey friends, how is everyone? Here's my latest. I had the convo with my young man, being really clear that I was serious about what I had talked about before and also making a point to be specific and direct about the fact that things had changed for me emotionally, that I didn't feel the same, that I didn't trust him as I had before and that I wasn't sure what that all meant for him and me. I acknowledged that I appreciated that he apologized and that he promised that it wouldn't happen again etc etc. But he's also basically ignoring or blowing off my concern. So we went away this weekend for the trip. Luckily there were lots of other people from our volunteer group there (it was a group event) lots of activities etc. but I still felt so guarded and disconnected, despite trying to just be in the moment. I think the thing that felt really weird or off to me is that he just acted like everything was fine and the same as before. I don't know if it is because he doesn't know how to deal with what I've told him, but he basically, to my mind< ignored where I told him I was emotionally. I think I did a good job of keeping things level (it was important to me to not have the weekend infused with relationship drama in so public a setting) but I also did not engage in any romantic stuff I wasn't feeling. He is still saying "I love you" and I almost feel like, at this point, to try and force those words out of me. I haven't been able to say them since after the drinking/driving incident and it is not the kind of thing I'm going to say f my heart is not all the way in it. Same with any kind of romantic physical stuff. I'm just not feeling it and I'm not going to fake it. He said it a couple of times over the weekend and I would give him a hug or other acknowledgement, but not return the sentiment. I was also kind of mad about it because I'm thinking "did you not hear a word I've been saying to you?" Pushing that right now makes me feel really even more alienated. So I am hurting and disappointed and also sad, because I think the relationship is winding down for me.
    I enjoy his company and we have fun together, he's a great thoughtful person but I no longer feel that romantic spark. I feel badly but as my therapist says, it takes along time to get to know someone and sometimes as you get to know them and observe choices it changes the course of things. I'm allowed to know that someone who has an unaddressed binge drinking behavior is not for me and that is not about my attachment issues, its about knowing what is safe for me. And he is also an active player in this and his choice to blow off or not address or even consider what I have said is a major concern is, well, further concerning. And yes I know I'll be sad and lonely for a while and I will miss him, because I am assuming if I ask to change the nature of our relationship that he'll need time and space, but I'm already sad and lonely because of what is happening. And truth be told, I'm also a little bit mad that he's made choices that put me in this situation (sounds familiar, right?) and kind of stole the full enjoyment of this weekend with friends. As we said goodbye yesterday, I know he was trying to kiss romantically and I managed to get away with just friendly pecks and hugs and he said he loved me and I just hugged him and I think he finally felt mad or frustrated that I'm not responding in kind. I'm hoping this drives the conversation we need to have. I really did try to leave myself open this weekend to feeling better/more connected but his lack of acknowledgment that there was even an issue was off-putting and disappointing.
    So I think I'm over here ready to take a break from dating for a while. xoxo my friends
    So although it is Tuesday, it is my first workday of the week. I have so much to do. The weekend was very physically demanding

  52. Hit post before I was done. I'm physically very tired and need some time to rest but have lots to accomplish that is time sensitive. I came here to write first so I could maybe get some of this out of my head.

  53. A little update: I broke up with my young man this past Sunday. I knew it was the right thing for me and I did not want to go on dragging things out an hurting his feelings more in the process. He was very sad. I was very sad, but I am also relieved and proud of myself for getting out of a relationship that was not going to be good for me. I guess I found one of my deal breakers and that is unresolved binge drinking issues. And the other thing that strikes me is that while we were going through this and it was pretty uncomfortable he did not bring it up to discuss or deal with in any way. Avoiding problems does not make them go away.
    So I am single, but not scared, not worried that no one will want me. Really ready to just have less stress and time crunch. Enjoy alone time, work on my house and business and spend a little more time on me. And oddly, though I miss him, i feel like I am a lot more focused now that I don't have this occupying my mind. I would really love to find a relationship some day that energizes rather than drains me.
    How is everyone??? Hanging in? What is new? How are you getting on? I want to hear how everyone is doing? I don't care if all you've been doing is eating avocado toast for months. I want to hear about it! xoxo ss1

  54. Still Standing One
    I’m proud that you drew a line around a boundary and were brave enough to end the relationship that didn’t feel right for you...that takes courage something that I have watched you do through this mess...I have good days and better days and slip backs occasionally but overall I’m so happy that this week we have had a great week with our adult children and our grandchildren. We’ve laughed at ourselves and hugged each other tightly and we sent our son back to his place in Duluth Minnesota as he is back in college working on his second career...that said we have a few more days with the grandchildren and their parents before we have to go back to the real world of h working on the other side of the country from where we live. They say absence makes the heart grow fonder but it was the absence of me during his affair I have to trust that his betrayal and the consequences will indeed make his heart grow fonder during this time he has to be that far away because with his work schedule he’s exhausted at the end of the day...Here’s to hoping that you find your peace for now and when the time is right, he that should be with you will soon find you!

  55. Hi Theresa, thanks for responding. :) I am glad you are having good days and I hope that the time apart while he is working is not too hard for you.
    I am doing pretty well. I am sad, and finding myself less and less like I believe in romantic love (there's all kinds of other love and friendship out there) but I begin to be suspicious that deep connected love exists, or at least, not for me. I feel like my chance for that has sailed long ago. I feel like Frodo at the end of the books where he's been thru so much that the world doesn't fit him any more. I suppose I will bounce back, but I feel so jaded at the moment. Alcohol ruins everything. I hate how glorified it is in us culture. But. I will continue trying to make a decent life for myself and spend more time with friends and think about what is next for me. Hugs xoxo

    1. Still Standing 1
      I’m doing fine with him being at work as I am busy most days continuing to clean up from my mother that was known as the QVC queen and a major hoarder of anything Christmas... I plan to rent the house to a cousin because my sister and I were raised on that hill and we are too sentimental to sell it yet and I believe my grandparents would approve of the cousin that wants to rent the house...Hopefully I will survive the emotional throwing stuff away because we don’t have space or desire for most of it...hugs!

  56. Sending hugs SS1.
    I love you!!!
    Gabby xo

  57. Love you too Gabby!! xoxo, hope you are doing well over there on your side of the planet :)

  58. Hi all. Was feeling a bit flat. Almost 4 years since D Day and 15 months since separating. Went searching for some inspiration and found Still Standing post from February 16, 2018; Working on you, Part 1. I had emailed myself the link. It completely captured my experience. Reading it again reminded mr of what i needed to do and that i would be ok. I can recommend it as a 'go to' on those tricky day.

    1. She is brilliant! And has done a whole lot of soul-searching to figure out where she is, how she got there, and what she wants. I'm grateful that she shares that wisdom with the rest of us.

    2. Aw, you guys...xoxo. Silver Princess I'm so glad anything I wrote has helped and keeps you connected to that idea that you will be ok. You will. I went back and read that post. There's a lot in there, things I needed to be reminded of too. :) But I also feel such a long way away from that time (in a good way), hard to believe it was only a year and a half since I wrote that. Hope you are feeling better. It gets easier. It really does.

    3. I just went and re-read it. It will mark 1 year next week that we've separated.

      I did most of the it except therapy. I've been to exercise Mon-Thursday after work. "Torture" myself with exercise and sweat it all out. It feels better when you sweat.
      I've been busy searching for recipe and learn to bake over weekend, force myself to read at least 1 books a week. It doesn't matter what book is it, as long as you spare some "own time" for yourself.
      Heading to the spa, pedicure & medicure. Treat yourself right, love yourself even they don't because you are unique. There won't be 2nd "you" in this world.

      Hugs to all


  59. I'm just living and taking one day at a time. And it still sucks.
    My house goes up for sale in a months time.
    I am so devastated ex has done this to me and the kids. We have no where to go, haven't found anything, and what we have been looking at is expensive and out of our reach for anything decent. Old crappy run down places is all we will be able to afford to rent.
    I can so totally understand women staying in shitty relationships for financial reasons.
    I've recently had girlfriends go through this shit and their exes have a least been decent to let them and the kids keep the house, or stay in it until the kids finish college!! No. Not my ex. He's too busy "living the high life" with his whore.
    And yes I'm pissed off.
    Gabby xo

    1. Gabby - you are completely entitled to being pissed off. We hear so many times "take them to the cleaners" but it's only as good as the system we're in and the lawyers we can afford.

      So the new norm is not where you want to be. That sucks donkey balls (LOL ... I just conjured my mother there!). It's completely unfair. He looks like he's living unscathed and high on the hog.

      But you know what ... I wouldn't want any of that. He lives in a make believe world. At any given moment a card could bend and the entire fascade will come tumbling down.

      You -- and your kids -- however will live in a place that is clean of what he has. So the house will be crappy on the outside and maybe not the greatest on the inside. But you know what it will have? A mom who loves her kids. A mom who is a freaking fighter who will not allow some selfish dick to keep her oppressed. A mom who wants nothing but the best for her kids. A mom who will continue to work on herself so that she can one day look at the environment you're in and think to yourself "I wouldn't want to be anywhere else."

      I'm reminded of the meme where two people are riding on a bus. One is all down and gloomy. The other is all smiley. The one all down and gloomy is just one seat away from the sunshine but because he's so busy being down and gloomy that he isn't looking around for the sunshine.

      Gabby - spin in a circle. Don't stop until you can find that sunshine spot. You're worth the effort to find a little sunshine!

    2. Gabby
      I’m so so sorry your x is such a selfish piece of human flesh! You can and will find a place for your children because you are first and foremost a dedicated mother! Keep trying to keep your spirits up and I just know you will find that right space!

    3. Gabby, I'm just here with hugs. I'm sorry your ex is such a gigantic asshole. I really am. You deserve so much better. And what Kimberly has written you is truly amazing. And she's right. Your life, though it is filled with struggle and difficulty right now, si and will be, so much richer than any of his gross money could ever provide. Your kids have you and know you are real and that they are safe with you. Do they have that with him? Unlikely.
      You are allowed to be pissed. You are allowed to rail against the unfairness of it all. It all sucks. I wish we did not live on other sides of the planet, so I could come over and make you tea and help with the packing up and anything else that needs to happen, even painting and fixing up one of the run down old places.
      I'm just sorry that things are this way right now for you. I'm sorry you keep getting hit by this over and over. I hope one of these days you can see a spot of that sunshine Kimberly is talking about. And I hope it gets bigger and bigger until one day you can barely remember what the dark looks like.
      Thinking of you my friend. xoxo SS1

  60. PS Kimberly what an incredible thing you wrote. XOXO

  61. Thanks Kimberly, SS1 and Theresa
    Your words comfort me and yes Kimberly, I've heard that before what you posted about the sunshine, but heard it with a view instead.
    I know my kids love me - they've lost a lot of respect for their father with how he's treated me and how he's not holding up his promises to keep us in the house - but with him IT IS once a liar always a liar. But that's on him. I hope there is sunshine ahead and it can shine a bit on me. I'm ready for it. Really I am glad he's gone. He was hard work as a partner - so moody and only happy when things were his way etc, and as I look back, I know he's always been like this - he's not a healthy person from a not healthy parents. My kids and I don't need shitty people like that around - even if he is their dad. They're better off without him - not a good role model for the kids at all.
    My friends and family have been a wonderful support. So many trying to find ways to keep my house - but of no luck.
    How are you all going and Selkie?
    I also often think of Sam A and Phoenix and hope all is well with them.
    Gabby xo

  62. Hey there friends, I'm here to vent. My ex is just exhausting. He's so self absorbed. Even when he is trying to be better he manages to make everything about him. Thing is, I can't teach him boundaries and as I am still learning boundaries myself, sometimes I don't fully process that a line has been crossed until sometime later when I am left fuming or frustrated and feeling drained and devalued. Jesus, no wonder I was depressed all the time.
    Example: we drove my daughter to the airport together as she is now overseas for study abroad. It is a two plus hour drive back that I spent in the car with him. He always ends up wanting to talk about deep things and I try, as much as possible to keep that at bay, because he is not welcome to tat kind of access to me anymore. Even that is tiring. But in this case we were talking about his elderly mother who still lives with me. And how he regrets that set up and that she is not likely to live that much longer (drama) and how I am likely to be the one who finds her or is on the spot if she falls etc etc (more drama but also true) and we keep talking and sort of start to shif the subject, then he comes out wth "Yeah, it's quite a sacrifice." And I think wow, ackowledgment and say, "yes, I want all the points for that." Jokingly. And he responds with "Oh I meant me. With all the money I pay to keep the house and everything going." Are you fucking kidding me with this shit? 1 we were just talking about me being the one to fnd your dead or keeled over mother and 2 it is a sacrifice to provide money to support the family that you promised to support???? fuck you buddy. I just started laughing out loud at the absurdity of it. I don't think he knew why I was laughing. I needed some time to recover from the drain f spending that much one on one time with him.
    There's more, which I;ll post soon, but gotta run. I wish I knew how to stop getting sucker punched by this guy. He's so relentlessly self absorbed.

    1. ohmigod, SS1. I'm laughing too. "What a sacrifice?" I mean...can this guy HEAR himself? You're living with his almost-dead elderly mother (and, c'mon, how man ex-wives would go along with THAT setup?? Not this one, I'll tell ya...) but HE'S making the "sacrifice".
      It's comical if it weren't so bloody toxic.

  63. Still Standing 1
    I think most men are self absorbed in one way or the other because mothers don’t usually have the luxury of selfish behavior. That said I’m glad you can vent it h was the one that said bring your mother to our house when she could no longer stay by herself. That was last year and I’m still cleaning up the mess she made of the house her parents gave her when they passed. I thankfully was not alone when mother became weak and about finished with life. I had a wonderful team of hospice and my sister and my h. He sacrificed a bit of his career to help me through that 10 months and he feels some of the repercussions of that time. His Texas project shut down for the most part so he’s here for the past two weeks and he tries hard to help me with the house clean out by taking the tons of trash to the dump...I keep telling myself that this too shall pass...he wants to retire but insurance is too high for my age...I just turned 60 this year so I’m just trodding along doing the best I can to clean the mess up and my sister and I plan to sell the house as soon as some repairs are made...It’s a struggle whether you divorce and it’s a struggle to stay is hard no matter what choice we make to survive betrayal...hugs!

  64. Thanks my friends. Yes I know he's such a mess and so self absorbed. Theresa I hear what you are saying about mothers and not usually having the time, but my ex's mom is an exception (apple not too far from tree) and so is my mom (as a function of her addiction) .
    You've been through so much in the last year plus. I'm glad you have supports around you. My sis and I are in a similar boat where we are cleaning out my mom's house and it was truly gross. She's now safely in a good facility where she has care, gets her meds on time, isn't giving herself food poisoning trying to cook and gets to have her cat.
    It is a struggle whether you divorce or stay married. It is still hard to say out loud that divorce has been the better option because that still tastes a little bit like failure. But I can't imagine that I'd be happy if I was still with my ex. He's not changed. Well that is not fair. he has in small ways, but he's still fundamentally self absorbed and goes into victim mode in an instant. Exhausting.
    I appreciate you both responding because even tho I know what he said is nuts, he's still go this weird morphic field around him where I start to question what my eyes and ears and heart and mind know. So it helps to hear from people outside the situation say yes, that's toxic. xoxo

  65. so the part two is that last night he announced to me that he would be sending me a new friend request for facebook and he got into some convoluted explanation about how he had intended to only cut down on seeing posts bu accidentally unfriended me. And then proceeded to explain that it was because of some post I did that was really hurtful to him and he didn't feel like he deserved it and does some good blah blah blah. And I am gobsmacked. First, he didn't even ask if I wanted to reconnect on facebook just told me and I'm not sure I want to be. Second, I have, initially no fucking idea what post he's talking about. I never call him out or talk about infidelity or anything in my public facebook stuff, because we have so many mutual friends and I am not trying to ruin his life. SO I literally have no idea wtf he's referring to but am 100% sure he's taking something not at all about him and making it about him. So I need to solve this mystery. I knew it was around november last year so I go review my posts from that time. I did a post for this site about how hard it is during the holidays and how it is OK to be sad, ask for help, to not feel OK. I scrubbed that and alos shared on facebook because I have a number of friends who find the holidays difficult. Nothing about my ex husband wrecking my life. Just me being open about my own grief and trying to make it ok for others to do the same. And I got a lot of people saying thanks for saying what they were feeling. But clearly my ex read it, felt guilty, and shame and butt hurtness took over. What blows my mind, beyond the degree of self absorption that led him to believe that the post was about him, was that I was also not entitled to my grief as a result of his choices and that 8 months later he's still holding enough of a grudge about it that he felt ok to take a swipe at me for it. Just fucking blown away.
    And I know I can't teach this man boundaries. often I need a few hours or a day to process what happened and recognize why it is bullshit, even if I can't articulate that on the spot. One of these days I want to be able to say, "that's bullshit sonny." If you felt guilty that's for you to look at and not on me. And I am mad that I keep letting my guard down with this person so that I am vulnerable to his offloading of excess and uncomfortable emotion.
    So now I am just mad about it. But I guess the universe thinks I still need reminders not to let this person take up too much space in my life or he will suck the lie out of me. He'd be mortified if he read that. He has no idea how exhausting he is.

    1. My new therapist (who I absolutely LOVE!) has me thinking in a new way. I know it's things that so many others have said ... and things I kind of already knew ... but for some reason it feels nice to be validated by a professional?

      So your husband had his shamed triggered. He obviously didn't know how to articulate it properly and his knee-jerk reaction was to unfriend you. I think you're probably spot on to which post it was and what it did to him. That's NOTHING you can control.

      Now - the only thing you can control is how you react to it and the fall out that he continues to place at your feet.

      "And I am mad that I keep letting my guard down with this person so that I am vulnerable to his offloading of excess and uncomfortable emotion."

      How could you have handled this differently? Even if you needed the time to process through all of the filters to come up with that deep dive, how could you have responded on the shallow dive?

      The thing I'm working on right now is really where the underlying emotions are being triggered. What in my marriage/teen years/childhood is really the issue? And hopefully by doing that reflection piece I can figure out where EMDR will be most helpful.

      I see 2 things - 1, he continues to pull you in where you don't want to be pulled in and he does it in a way that you didn't shut it down and 2, you feel like you're not entitled to your feelings without recourse.

      Can you trace the lines of trauma to find the beginning of these feelings?

    2. SS1
      Kimberly said it well.
      SS1. You owe him nothing. He has no right to your personal life anymore, and keep him off your social media. He is showing he continues to disappoint, and it seems manipulate you with his emotions. Do not get roped in.
      BTW. Is he still with that woman with kids?
      Gabby xo

    3. I'm so pleased you have found a therapist that you are happy with.
      Gabby xo

  66. My friends, thank you. Kimberly you are spot on. I know this stuff and my response to my ex and his emotional blackmail tactics (which I think are completely autopilot for him btw - I don't think he does it on purpose - which is perhaps even more tragic) but it mirrors and therefore triggers some really deep family of origin stuff for me, around my mother and the terror and price extracted for making her unhappy or having an opinion or needs that did not line up with hers. I did some deep digging into this with my therapist this week and it was supremely uncomfortable. I was practically in the fetal position with the fear around this. But she's helping me see that he really doesn't have any real way to hurt me anymore, that I should trust my gut that I don't want to be connected to him on social media and that it is OK for me to speak that regardless of how he reacts. The same is true about all his other hi-jinx . They belong to him and are not in my control or responsibility. The lesson is I really need to keep him at a distance, the more I have to interact, no matter how straightforward and cordial, the harder it is to maintain a healthy boundary.
    So I know I need to tell him I don't feel great about reconnecting on social media and pick my time and place for doing so. and then let it go.
    Between this, the therapy session and another ultrasound this week, and maybe a flu bug, I am feeling pretty beat up this week. Luckily my work lined up such that I could take it slow.
    Gabby he is not still with the woman with the young kid. Turns out she was "hitting the bottle too much" in his words. Oh the irony. And as I continue to tell/remind myself, I am better off not knowing what he is doing.
    I am so grateful for the love, support and insights from you all as we walk these weird and difficult paths. xoxo

  67. How are you all this week?
    I was feeling really anxious when I went to bed the other night and woke up feeling crap - but I had to get on with life - go to work and put on a happy face, be there for my kids and a walk did made me feel better.
    Just wish it would all end. So over the roller coaster of emotions STILL - nearly 4 years since DDay2!
    Gabby xo

  68. Hi Gabby, my friend. I'm sorry to hear you had an anxious and difficult night. Its so miserable and then the lack of sleep makes the day even harder. I'm sending you a hug and a nice cup of tea.
    Try and be gentle with yourself Gabby. Everyone heals on their own timeline and you've been through a lot and continue to have this situation in your face with no rest.
    So, I am going to ask a question and your answer can be no or mind your business or whatever else comes to mind. Have you ever considered talking to your doctor about meds? Its another, totally legitimate way of asking for help. Sometimes our nervous systems get so stuck in high alert that we need help calming it down. A low dosage of an anti-anxiety or anti-depressant may help lessen the impact of those anxiety sneak attacks and make getting through the day less of a drudge. It doesn't even have to be long term, just a few months, so you can start to see a bit more joy in your life and a bit less roller coaster.
    I realize there may be obstacles. I have no idea how the health system works where you are, but there must be some resource, some place to start. I had a sleep aid prescribed to my while I was going through the most difficult shit. I only used them twice because that was what felt right, but it was helpful knowing I had that tool if it was really needed. I don't know what the right course is for you, but a qualified doctor may. When was the last time you saw an MD for a health check? Maybe start there. You are allowed to say no, of course and choose what is right for you. This is just my idea.
    The other thing I will add is that I am 49 and I get a lot of the physical symptoms of anxiety, heart racing, shakes, sweats etc. without emotionally feeling anxious. And what I have learned is that this is a symptom of the peri-menopause phase where I am and have been for the last couple of years. I think it has been helpful for me to know this because then I am not running away weaving a story about where those physical symptoms are coming from and getting myself more torqued up with worry. Instead, I try to listen to what my body needs when I get those anxiety like symptoms. Usually its food and water and to get up and stretch for a few minutes. It doesn't miraculously disappear, but it does subside and calm back down.
    My week is nice and slow. I am wrapping up some work projects before I head off for a vacation (finally) in the beginning of august. So I have been able to slow my pace down. And I needed to. I've been tired. Went to a concert this past friday with my old sailboat guy (we've stayed friendly and we have a nice time together) and it was a lot of fun. It's a band I really, really enjoy. And then I sat on my arse and did bugger all, all weekend. I mean I did some dishes and vaccumed. But those were things I wanted to do and I did them at an easy pace. I read a lot. Napped. Ran. Mostly stayed out of the massive heat wave we had. And now I am just gearing up for my workday.
    Hang in there Gabby. There are lots of people in your life who love and support you. XOXO SS1

    1. Gabby - my therapist broached the topic of high functioning depression with me last week. She was very sly in her approach ... but said that she really feels that something to slow the rushing of my brain will help me heal. I left a message last week for a psychiatrist ... guess I should pick up the phone and try again.

      This trauma wasn't a one time thing for you and me. It was stretched out over a long period of time. And because of that, the brain is struggling to heal.

      I hope you'll read SS1's post with the love intended.

  69. Hello. I have been reading & reading online to see if something will spontaneously give me answers but I know that wont happen, so here I am, just looking for friendly advice. We have been married 19 yrs, have 2 kids - 12 & 14, own several businesses together, I have been thinking for quite a while that he is having an affair. I am always on high alert because in the past i have doscovered him talking or texting or emailing other women in a way that is not ok with me. Not sexual but definitly crossing the line of not ok. So, he is aware that I dont trust him & I am sure that doesnt help things at all. This time he has been spending too much time helping this other woman, he smells like her, he is suddenly gone overnight for 1 thing or the other on wknds she doesnt have her kids, etc. Now I have found emails that confirm my suspicions. They made me sick. Literally sick actually. I confronted him (didnt show him the emails) but specifically asked him things & he denied it all. I know he is lying. Then he went on to tell me he hasnt felt the same about me since our 2nd daughter was born... 12 yrs ago. I know I was not nice during that time period, just stressed, crabby, etc but I had no idea it had a lasting effect on him. Probably just an excuse on his part to make it seem like I am no good to be around or something. Anyway, I know he is having an affair, denying it, etc. He was still having sex with me regularly until I found the emails, now I have ZERO interest in that. It is disgusting to think that I was doing it with him when he was also with her. She is gross. Im not just saying that because I am mad. Im literally confused why he would betray me and our family for her. She has zero qualities. I assume their affair wont last because it is unrealistic, but i know she will chase him as long as possible because he has way more $$ than any other man she is qualified to be with. Again, I know I sound jealous but it is just a true statement. My trouble is, our kids have a happy, secure life & home, I do not want to disturb that. I have always done all of the child raising, he has never been with us much, but lately he has distanced himself even more, the kids dont feel he respects them, they have both commented that it doesnt seem like he is a part of our family anymore, etc. We own several businesses that will become worth less if people find out there is trouble in our marriage. I feel stuck. It has been a couple weeks since I found out and I am asking myself if I really even love him or if I just want to be with him because of the kids & because of the business situation. Plus I am beyond humiliated about the affair. Good grief. I feel like it wont be long before everyone in our world finds out about it either because he ends it with her & she tells people, or because they keep it up & get caught. Since I confronted him we have not discussed it again. I dont plan to bring it up. If he wants to talk about it he will. I still get stuck in my thoughts every day though wondering how it all went wrong. How all these dreams of our life in the future became so unknown.

    That was a huge ramble, I apologize. I just wonder what other people think. I cant (wont) just kick him out and blow uo our family and our world. If he leaves it will be him who left. I am dreading running into the other woman now rhat I know for sure.
    I cant believe he 100% denied it all. This wknd the other woman doesnt have her kids. I will freak if he comes up with a reason to be gone overnight this weekend. Surely not.

    Maybe he never had any intention of leaving me and the kids, but i have to mentally prepare myself for being alone. Why do I feel ashamed? Like I failed? Maybe because he chose to betray me with a woman who is not smart, not pretty, not nice, not a good mother. I dont know. Or maybe because being cheated on, left, divorced, whatever you want to call it seems dirty. I think I am still too old fashioned.

    I can't imagine putting my kids through that.


    1. Whoops, I posted this in the wrong section I think. Maybe it can be moved?

    2. What to do - 1st off - why her? She was available. End of story.

      And what to do - not make any reactive decisions. Nothing has to be decided in this moment.

      I'm a firm believer in knowledge. So many that looks like seeing an attorney to figure out what it would look like if you separated or divorced. Maybe it's talking to a therapist. Maybe it's getting tested for STDs. Maybe it's ...

      I'm so sorry you've been unceremoniously invited to this sisterhood. It's NO place any of us ever imagined being. But we're here ... and we're figuring it out together.

    3. What to do.
      Firstly. Please don't apologise. This site is here for us BW to vent as much as we need. Do you know why it all went wrong? Why all our marriages went wrong? Nothing to do with us! Because we married men who are incapable of being men, but spoiled little boys who feel entitled to be selfish creeps for their own deviate sexual satisfaction. (now I'm having my rant).
      My heart is breaking for you and your kids. I would love to slap your husband to make him wake up to what he's doing. My marriage was like yours in so many ways, and I'm sorry to tell you my ex has run away to be with one of his skanks.
      From past experiences, not talking about it will not make it go away - but get worse. Your h prob will not want to talk about it because it will show what a low life piece of shit he is. You must set boundaries ASAP. If you don't want your husband to be going away for the weekend you need to tell him and why. If he ignores you and is only interested in looking after himself, he is showing you he doesn't respect you, your marriage and the family. If he wants the marriage, he has to do some major work to prove it and I suggest you both get to counselling together and individually ASAP.
      I suggest you also see a lawyer about your businesses and can you ensure your businesses are secure so he can't withdraw money for his skanks etc.
      My ex has cunningly swindled me out of his businesses that we had (complicated). I was blindsided and now have been left broke without a home and now having to rent- I'm in debt and I don't want this to happen to another women. I suggest you secure money ASAP. Don't think...."oh now he wont do it".... Let me remind you he cheated. He cheated when we all thought "oh no, our husband's would never cheat".
      You don't have to make any decision right now. I totally get where you are coming from re keeping the marriage together for the kids.
      And you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed about. You are a good mom who is there for her kids when their dad chooses not to. You are loyal and kind with good "old fashioned" morals which are more valued than being a low life husband snatcher.
      Sending hugs
      Gabby xo

    4. I like the "low life husband snatcher" line. I have complete control of our finances, my husband doesnt know much about it, so that is in my favor. I am very prepared on that end of things. I guess since I know he is cheating, I am hanging on for the kids lives to be normal for now and also so we can sell these businesses (which we are working on doing) because if I am going to be a divorced mom, I want it to be with as much $ as possible. He doesnt treat me badly (aside from the obvious lying cheater part) so right now I will do my own thing, spend as much time with the kids and my friends and family as I can, build a large suppirt system, enioy my life and mentally prepare myself for the worst case scenerio and be the good guy because in the end, if he doesnt change, it will be on him, not on me. If he comes clean, apologizes, and changes his sneaky behavior that he thinks has no consequences, then great, we can see what happens, but until then, he knows that I know and that helps me sleep at night. I am finally past the can't eat, can't sleep phase, thank goodness. I just wish he was as helpful and loving to me and to the kids as he is to the "low life husband snatcher".

      Also, I have told absolutely nobody about his cheating. I would like to talk it over with someone but I just can't let myself yet. Is that crazy? I dont want to tell anyone that lives in our town because there is an enormous risk of others finding out which leads to our kids and employees finding out. I dont want to tell any out of town friends because I am just not ready yet. Does it help to tell someone? I just feel so stupid but then the next second I think, screw that idiot, he just ruined a great family outbof pure selfishness. The kids wont see it that way though, they will just be heartbroken when/if they find out. Especially because of who the low life husband snatcher is. They know her personally.

    5. What to do, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. And please, as others have said, don't apologize for sharing your story here and seeking guidance. That's exactly why this site exists. You are welcome here and you will find an incredible community of women who know the pain you're going through.
      I want to (gently) push back on your plan to let this run its course. I think there's harm in that to you and also, if your hope is for nobody to find out (especially your kids), it becomes increasingly unlikely to keep it secret the longer it goes on.
      You deserve a husband who is there emotionally for you -- and is honest and respectful of you, as his wife and as the mother of his children. He doesn't get to defend cheating because he lost interest in you 12 years ago. That's crazy.
      It's your life, of course. And you get to decide how you want to proceed. But I think we pay a personal price when we don't hold those in our lives to a higher standard. I wrote a post on this site about how many of us do that, we settle for crumbs. If you want to read it, it's here:
      The truth is, you deserve better than this.

    6. What to do
      14 years ago DDay1 I told no one.
      4 years ago with DDay 2 I told my doctor, therapists and 1 lady.
      Between DDay 1 and DDay2 I told a few people.
      DDay 3 I told my family and also I started to tell people, because he left me for the skank.
      Also people who knew him found out (through his work) and spread the word for me.
      Sometimes you have no control. Now we are separated, I really don't care who knows.
      One thing that happened from other's knowing though. Apart from this site, it seemed to open a gate of women flooding through into my life with shitty husbands leading to separation and divorce. I'd bump into so many women who I hadn't seen for ages who were separated/divorced. Why the universe was sending these women to me is still a mystery.
      I too tried to protect my kids, but there are so many people out there in our situation, it has become sad we are just "another number" to the betrayal pile. And as much as I wanted to protect my kids - he didn't give a care about them, because if he did, he would have done everything to be a better person/husband/father and he didn't. He walked out, so my kids are old enough to know the truth and we've had many discussions about this. They have a relationship with their dad - it's forced by them, but they really don't feel completely comfortable with him anymore. They feel betrayed too, having their family life ripped out from them by their selfish dad.
      I must say, it helped early on telling someone. One of my dear older friends and her husband offered wonder counsel to me. I just knew they were the right people to talk to.
      These guys have to be extra loving and caring to the husband snatchers because our husbands feel they need them and are doing everything to keep them and the lie going.
      I too get so pissed thinking how my ex spent so many hours with this skanks treating them nicely etc, when we were waiting loyally at home for him. That time and effort should have been for us.
      Thinking of you
      Gabby xo

    7. What to do, honestly it is wonderful that you control your money but if you live in the US, the state you live in has a say in how assets are divided up. I'd make an appointment right now with a good divorce attorney and find out exactly what you would be facing if things go south. I did that a month after my husband disclosed to me. I didn't tell him that until at least a year after D-day and he was shocked. I told him, "Since you lied and cheated for 35+ years, there is no way I would ever take your word on anything again. I want to protect myself financially. You should too and especially because you have young children. Mine were grown when the shit hit the fan. You owe it to yourself to find good legal advice so you can maybe start now protecting your finances. He could easily wake up some day and drain your accounts without your knowledge or approval. It happens.

  70. I’m having a terrible day!!!
    I’ve actually been having a terrible few months, I thought I was doing great but all of the sudden I’m feeling absolutely awful and I can’t shake it. Today I went through my separation agreement and realized I actually get nothing from my ex at all even though he makes 4 times what I make and he had an affair. Where’s the justice? I know I shouldn’t be after money but I’m more upset that he doesn’t have to take any responsibility for his actions and he will have no reminders of his mistakes.
    He’s already met a new girl and is dating her, not even the affair partner someone else. He told me he wanted to be alone and figure things out well that didn’t take him long, for the amount of issues he claimed to have he’s sure doing well for himself. I’m so angry!!! Sorry for the venting I just feel very alone and like there isn’t much hope.

    1. HM - isn't justice grand? I think that this whole "no fault" crap should not apply when it comes to infidelity.

      I'm so sorry that he appears to have it all together. BUT we all know ... it's just smoke and mirrors.

      Revel in the fact that you are standing on your own 2 feet and will be rid of those facades.

    2. HM
      You are not alone. There's a group of women here going through so many similar things as you.
      I'm sorry you are having a terrible time. Separation just adds another heavy layer to our emotions that have already been weighed down since DDay.
      And you should be after the money. We need money to survive in this world, in our society, and like you my ex earns 10 x more than me but I get nothing but debt from him. In a few years he'll be a very wealthy man, yet I walk away with nothing but years of struggle.
      I hope you can get to a point where you are pleased to be rid of your ex and all his crap, and by the sounds of it, he still has issues if he's seeking more women to be with.
      Gabby xo

    3. HM, I'm curious what you're not entitled to more legally. Are you sure? This isn't about greed, it's about ensuring that you get what's fair.
      And I know it can sometimes feel that any progress we've made isn't real. We hit a bad patch and it feels as though we're just spinning our wheels. You're healing, even if you don't always see it. Hang in there.

  71. Thanks SS1 and Kimberly
    You are so right with this being still constantly in my face and being stretched out Kimberly!
    I will heal, but yes, in my own time.
    SS1. I can't believe (in a happy way ) you still see boat guy as friends. Glad you are able to have a good social life.
    Kimberly. Are you getting any support with your kids, and able to get some time out just for you?
    Gabby xo

    1. Gabby - I'm still married - so support from my AOH is still there. He, thankfully, is a good dad. And I have been able to take some time for myself lately. I joined a Bible study group of women back in May. This is huge because I've been more agnostic since my dad's death in 2013 and it's been refreshing to connect with spirituality in this time.

  72. My H had reach me out again on the divorce and i'd finally agreed with him to proceed with the process.
    It's not easy to make this decision but since they had been staying together and my H show no remorse/sad/concern about our marriage, i guess this is the best decision for both of us.
    I guess the whole process will be torturing and hurt but i also believe that i will come out stronger.


    1. Lost_AA,
      I'm sorry. I know this isn't the outcome you wanted. But you're right. He is not invested in your marriage. And what did she get? A guy who cheats. A guy who leaves his marriage with hardly a backward glance. In other words, she didn't win any prize. You, on the other hand, have your integrity and your heart. It will be tough. But you are tougher. And you're resilient. And you will get through this and emerge stronger and wiser.

    2. Lost_AA,
      I agree with Elle on this. Divorce is so hard as some of us know. I think it would be worse to be married to someone not invested in the marriage and she did not get herself any prize. Time will tell. Please take good care of yourself and your heart. This too shall pass and you will rise again as a much wiser woman.

    3. Hi Elle,
      Thanks for your word of encouragement.
      She probably think that she is very "important & unique" where a guy willing to scarified his marriage for her even though she is a divorcee.

      Yes, i am tougher & stronger now and i believe that i will be getting better and better. A new ME after reborn.

      What i need most is a tight hug from all of you. :)


    4. Lost_AA, you will get the last laugh, trust me. She will wake up one day and wonder what he is doing when he tells her the same lies he told you when they were together. Karma bites. Honestly, when I was young and single and went out with friends I got hit on all the time by guys with a ring. When they said, "My wife doesn't understand me." I'd respond, "I wouldn't understand if my husband was cheating on me either. Fuck off."

    5. Hi Beach Girl,
      I ever wonder if Karma really exist? Some people told me, if you believe, then it exist.
      They had slowly let their relationship open up to others even though we are still in the progress of the divorce. They openly car pool to work, go for lunch at the mall nearby the office and even go to traveled together.
      So, who am i to them? I am just nobody.


  73. Lost AA, I am sorry I could not comment sooner. I am on vacation in the back woods and the internet service in the cabin is not very good. I'm just posting you this quick note to send you a hug and just tell you that it will get better. I did not want my divorce either. But I held my head high and took the high road at every opportunity, so I could be proud of myself in the end. And you can too. The other thing I will add is that when you are free and clear of this man, you will feel like you can breathe again. You can out you first, make your own life and choices and you can begin that today, this very minute. Take each day one at a time, but know that you will be so much more as you come through this. Also think about the space that is being created in your life for good things to come in.
    I'll add that my ex came around wanting to reconcile, twice. The first time it was clear that it wasn't about him wanting me back. It was about him wanting to be rescued from the horrible mess he'd made (and as it turns out, he was still very much in contact with his AP). The second time, I had had enough time on my own and healing to realize that I was a much happier & healthier person without him in my life. I was so afraid, and still get afraid sometimes, but I would not trade my life now for my life then or even a new life with him. You'll be OK Lost AA. Take all the time you need to grieve, but also look forward with hope, because you've still got you.

    1. Hi SS1, thanks for replying.
      Yes, i know i will be better each day. I am still fighting.
      Sometime, i wonder if i am such a failure where my H never ever approach me for reconcile or feeling sorry for what he had been done to me.

      By the way, i still met the OW often in the company and she is still making fun of me with her friends. I always choose to ignored her but deep inside, no matter how i still feel piss off. She is someone that is wronged but why she act like i am the one?


  74. Guys you are not going to believe this and I don't know where else to post it but a woman in North Carloina, just won $32. million in an alienation of affection lawsuit against her now ex husband and his affair partner.

    It sounds like the ex and ap are shit people who put her through the wringer and I'm feeling a little gleeful that this warrior woman fought and won. I hope she invests the hell out of that money including investing in her own care and growth. Enjoy!

    1. One tick for BW!!!!
      Society still has a long way to go and so do the courts. Until betrayal becomes a criminal event, I will not feel satisfied. These "adults" have broken a contract, and if they did this in business, they would be sued.
      Wish all US states and countries recognised alienation of affection.
      Thanks for posting this SS1.
      Gabby xo

  75. Four more sleeps....
    I lurk here more than I post. I probably haven't posted for three or four years. At that time, my H (a recovering SA) and I were trying to reconcile, but he wasn't committed to the relationship, and he didn't want to share our lives intimately. He became a Sexual Anorexic, and I became angry at having love and affection and intimacy withdrawn from me. Two weeks ago, we had a fight - as we always do - his therapist had suggested a Sex Therapist - and the name she gave him was a therapist in Los Angeles (we live in rural Canada) at $1200 a pop. So he just wrote the situation down as a no. We had also talked about leaving our rural community, where we have no family and few friends, and moving to my old home-city, where we both have family, and I have a ton of friends. A fresh start. After a week of silence, he told me, he wasn't going to move, to that city or any other - he just wasn't strong enough, and that he started to look for apartments to have some time apart "get his head on straight." After he left for work, I sat there stunned. I had been fighting for this relationship for five years, and HE was going to leave ME? I work from home, and there are many days I don't see anyone but him. My one and only true friend that I've made in 11 years here works evenings and has a child she has to attend sporting competitions with most weekends. So while he went off to his office and his new apartment, I would be even more alone. By that afternoon I had made a plan, I had called my work and told them I would be working remotely from 8hrs away (which they will allow me to do until I find a new job or Dec 31st whichever comes first), I found a house to rent that takes my dog next door to one of my best friends, and I even found a temporary (1 month) job that gets my foot in the door with a large employer in the city. When faced with all this he said - "you've made more plans in an afternoon than I've made in two weeks." Damn Skippy.

    Am I happy about this? No, I am heartbroken. I cry most days and most nights too. I thought him coming clean and stopping his acting out behaviour, becoming more vulnerable, and seeing a therapist would make our marriage stronger. I have taken the past five years to heal, and to grow. He has taken the last five years to stand still and just not act out. He says, it is because he hates himself, and he can't forgive himself - even though I've forgiven him (which didn't happen until this year, because I didn't want to say words I didn't mean).

    He has gone to visit his Mom who is recovering from surgery, and he'll be gone until the day I leave - Friday. The house is packed, my decisions are made, and .... here I go. Terrified. Unemployed (soon) and with little to no savings (his acting out lost us our business which had all of our savings and added to our debt - I worked my fingers to the bones to keep our heads above water). I read everyone's stories here with hope. That the end to the drama, the end to my anger, (not at the affair frankly at this stage, but to the continued lack of intimacy and commitment), and even the end to weird and unstable finances (if I can find a job). Though, I'm the type that will work at McDonald's to make ends meet, I'm not afraid of hard work.

    So...yeah. That's my story. The end to this journey - though he says it's not the end (he has some fantasy that he's suddenly going to be able to "fix" himself and then he can recommit - I say his past actions have never shown any such thing. He's a runner, and he'll never stop being one - and I'm tired of being abused). Even if he does "fix" himself, I can't see me being willing to trust him. If he's willing to hurt me when he was sick (in the throes of his addiction), and willing to hurt me further when he is "awake" and "aware" but still mentally ill, then I can't trust that he won't hurt me again.

    God I'm so scared.

    1. Dearest "G"/Radlady,
      Wow, you just described what in my book would be defined as "radical self-care". I see and feel your strength in your writings and I totally get your decision to put and end to treading water and just swim away. In my 40 year marriage to my SA in recovery marriage, I did that once and he changed his toon immediately. That was back in 1992. It has taken me 4 years to reach the point where you are now even if I am still with my husband and he continues to show a deep commitment to me and our marriage. I don't see this as the end of your journey although it may very well be the end of your married to a SA journey. I read this as the first chapter in your new life where you get to make all the decisions that revolve around you and what you need to live a productive, prosperous and satisfying life. I think that many of us here have reached that point and continue to stay married because our spouses chose to work hard and show us they were worth the pain. I've little doubt that I would be on your journey had things not worked out with my spouse. Once I saw and attorney early on and got my footing, I knew I would be OK. I would be different but that was OK too. Much strength and love to you, our Warrior Woman of the Day!

    2. G/Rad Lady,
      A letter from your future self:
      "I know today is hard. I know you are so scared. But I want you to know first and foremost, that you turn out just fine. The you in the future (that's me) is living a full, rich and happy life. I can't give you all the details, because I want you to enjoy the discovery and the joy and the surprises, but know that this is the beginning of a beautiful new chapter.
      I look back on where you are today, the decision you made to put yourself first, the bad ass actions you took and plans you made and I am so proud of you. You set us (you and me) on this path and we have come so far. Of course there are tough days ahead, but that's true of any path.
      Your new path is one where you have set yourself free to rediscover you. It is hard to imagine now, but you will feel better. You will breath again. You will be happy. You will make an amazing life for yourself.
      There will come a day, when all of this will just be a thing that happened. Formative perhaps, but like so many events in our lives, just one of many that don't loom so large, that we cease to think of every day.
      I want you to know, that by shifting him out of the center of your story and you into the middle, you are choosing life. And, though it is not what you wanted, your story is a great one.
      From the future, I am sending you a hug, because you are a badass and you've got this, and I am so proud to be you.
      Love, You from the Future"

    3. G/Rad Lady - just know there is a woman giving you a standing ovation in the middle of her office in Kansas City! Girl ... print out SS1's words and read them in a year ... 2 years ...

    4. G
      I have nothing to add to Still Standing 1 because she rocks the truth and I remember when she arrived at where you are and I like some of the others have not had to go! I can still send hugs and tell you I hear your pain!

    5. Thank you all for this. I'm reading this from my new home, with my dog on my bed, and Shonda Rhimes book "Year of Yes" on my lap. I'm feeling stronger, I'm feeling happier, and I'm feeling better than I have in years. Still (technically) unemployed, but I have a job interview on Monday!

      I had meetings near where I used to live, and went back to the house to collect more of my things, and I spoke to him for a short talk. He's had a slip and watched porn again, and it was SO freeing. You hear the words "it's not you, it's them." But then you see your aging body, and you think "but is it really?" He hadn't acted out for 5yrs - and within a week of me leaving - he acts out. It really wasn't me. It really and truly had nothing to do with me. I was enough all along. He has an illness and a problem that he is not addressing, and I can't fix it. It's up to him to fix.

      Cheers to all the fabulous warrior women out there who lift each other up! I feel blessed, and just a little scared now, but your words encourage me and let me know, it really will be ok!


  76. I don't know where else to post this but I just need a vent. I'm so mad today. About everything. Thanks to menopause my cycle is just yuck and today I am tired and on a short fuse.But same is true for the last few days. The Young guy I had been dating and then broke up with for alcohol reasons went out on a date friday (thanks facebook for showing me that). I mean I know he's done zero work on the alcohol issue because they were out at a bar, and I know he's not right for me but it is still ouch. And even though I am fine on my own. I'd rather be fine, at some point, with a decent guy. So blech. Then out of the blue, an old co-worker texted me. Was nice to hear from him, I hired him, mentored him and was his manager for close to a decade. We caught up, I asked about his wife etc. all good. He asked about kids and then my ex. He did not know we were divorced so I filled him in briefly. We're not together. It's been a really good thing for me. And don't you know, it gt weird. He started flirting. Telling me he always had a crush on me and was lucky to have had such a hot boss etc. etc. I honestly suspect he was not totally sober either. So I'm getting uncomfortable and not wanting to hurt his feelings hblah blah blah. And then I think hold the phone. I'M uncomfortable. I don't want this. This is not ok with me. So I said, "look, general rule of thumb is, if you don't want your wife (and I used her name) to read it, don't type it." And he back right up. Apologized. Said he was only joking yada yada. I was like, I don't really enjoy that kind of joking. And so we ended the convo on a reasonable note.Fine. next day he texts all apologetic. Day after he texts and is weird and flirty again. I suspect not sober again based on some things he said and the beer emoji. I cut it short with hey, I'm going to mow the lawn. Just ug. So disappointing. A person whom I respected and thought had integrity now has alcohol and boundary issues. Another one bites the dust. And then I went to therapy and was talking about lots of stuff, but dating too. And my therapist said something along the lines of that I hadn't spent much time on my own, meaning not dating or whatever. But I felt, after the fact kind of resentful and mad about it. I mean on the one hand, time wise, I suppose it is true. I went from separated, dated a person for 9 months had a five month gap and then dated another guy for about 11 months. So why did that statement feel unfair? And I realized it is because I was alone for the last 5 fucking years of my marriage and extra horribly alone while my ex was carrying on his affair under my nose. SO it doesn't feel fair to tell me that I haven't spent enough time on my own because god knows I have spent enough time being lonely.
    And then, i saw my reiki guy and he started giving my a bit of a hard time saying that he could tell my energy was off and I was angry because I was not dealing with stuff. I was leaving my table mess and not working through things. And I was mad about that too. Also not true or fair. I have been working hard and definitely dealing with my stuff. In addition to therapy on the regular, I am also working with a new coach to help change patterns, get better at boundaries, dig out old stories and childhood behaviors. And it is some hard painful fucking work. SO fuck this leaving my table messy bullshit. Today I was tired and mad. Just today dude. I'm not walking around not resolving my shit. I'm just mad.
    And can menopause please be over soon please? My boobs hurt for three weeks. Literally WTF.
    Ok rant over. Thanks

    1. Somehow by the grace of a great obgyn and my urologist, I was able to fix two problems with the same operating room and a brief overnight observation stay, but some of my friends still have the flashes and the whole mess...hugs gently...

    2. Hi SS1
      WTF is wrong with (some) men? Seriously? Are they that mindless, that selfish, that immature? Why is life a big chase for them? Always looking out for something else? Their brains haven't developed, haven't evolved past their loins in all these years from the cave man era.
      This ex colleague of yours! Thank God you shut him down. It made my blood boil listening to how he was treating you and his wife! Creep.
      I don't blame you for being angry SS1. Don't take this the wrong way, because I don't believe you have to live by a time line -you didn't jump into dating too fast, you did it when the situation felt right - so, looking at it another way, do you think you dated when you did because perhaps you were looking for validation from a man? That you are desirable, you are worthy of being in a relationship....and to shove it up your ex a bit? and for the physical contact? You were ignored for so long and you deserve to be loved and cared for.
      I know you are fine on your own but would like a partner. I hope you find that special someone.
      You have handled all situations so well. Don't be so hard on yourself.
      I so get you being alone (in your marriage) for so long. When I was married, I too felt so alone for many years. I now relish in not having ex around - or any man. I love my solitude from relationships.
      You are doing all the right things my dear friend. Being a good mum, working, volunteering, keeping yourself busy, being an awesome support here, seeking IC, but are you really taking time out just for you? Sometimes I think when I am busy, I don't have time to deal with anything else so I ignore some important stuff that I just don't want to deal with. It's just like "oh. some other crap I have to deal with"...when's it going to end? I feel I've had to deal with so many things with ex and it seems to never be ending. The house, his lack of financial support to the kids etc, and let's face it. This won't go away until the kids are financially independent from their school, uni not for a few years.
      We've had enough crap to deal with over the years. It's about time the tables turned in our favour. (I'm still waiting).
      I hope by the time you read this you have found some peace.
      Gabby xo

  77. Hi Gabby, thanks for the hugs and thanks for helping me reframe some of that old struggle around dating. You are right, I don't need to judge myself for jumping in when I did. I needed it to insulate me from my ex. If I hadn't been out there dating (and seeing that strangers could treat me with greater kindness - and also seeing how old patterns did not have to play out) I might have been more vulnerable to getting back with my ex. And I honestly don't think I'd be in such a good place if I had. I was most definitely looking for validation from a man, especially in the wake that the enormous rejection that betrayal is. But seeking validation from other, but especially from men is a true soft spot for me ad one that I am digging into with my new coach (who is amazing BTW). There was definitely a wish and effort by me to find and reconnect with my sexuality and a longing for safe physical contact and there was absolutely an element of "shove it up your arse" aimed at my ex. :)
    And most of the time, I am feeling pretty patient about waiting for a right someone. In the meantime, I am working on my old stuff so it has less influence on my future relationships.
    I am actually pretty good at taking out time for me. I head out to the nearby trail for walks and runs a few times a week, I have therapy, I get accupuncture once a month. I stop for lunch and eat and read (no working through lunch) and I am getting better at trusting myself when it comes to saying no to things.
    We are both in a stretch of years where it is kind of a grind. The kids still very much need us, and I love that they do, but they also put a framework about where or how far I go and what I do. Even when they are off to college and beyond, I know I'll still need to provide financial assistance and want to provide a home base they can come back to. But I will, most certainly, be downsizing my house and financial commitments. I really, really want to get a boat and learn how to sail and maintain it, and maybe live aboard for at least part of the year...
    I think the things about this old colleague has reminded me is that I still have some things to work on when it comes to boundaries with men and validation seeking. Those two things in me are in conflict, so I get things like this that fall outside of my values. I'm very proud about speaking that boundary out loud to him and haven't heard from him since, thank goodness.
    XOXO Gabby, hope you are hanging in and having mostly good days.
    PS "haven't evolved past their loins" made me almost spew my coffee. Too funny!

  78. Hi friends! how are you? How is everyone holding up? I think about you all often and would love to hear how things are with you all.
    Here's my latest update and it is a good deal of fun. My birthday is coming up tomorrow. I'm turning 50 and I am feeling really good about it. Like really at the best place I've been in my life, perhaps ever.
    I wasn't sure what I wanted to do to celebrate. I looked into hosting a big party but some issues and a liquor license made things too far out of my budget and it felt like a lot of stress. I let that idea go.
    Then, something good came up with my business and I decided I needed to get myself some professional photos done. I decided to really go all in and turn it into a happy birthday to me extravanganza. I booked a photographer friend I knew and at a location not to far at an old mansion with beautiful gardens. I went out dress shopping and searched until I found THE perfect dress. It was, of course, the most expensive one, but I committed to it any way. And when I got the the counter it was 30% off! Dress fate!.
    I booked a hair and makeup session and got that all professionally done on the day of my photoshoot. Friends, I even had fake eyelashes and glitter. I went all in with two feet and no net. And I got to the photo location and it was gorgeous, we had a beautiful fall day, lots of afternoon sunshine and I felt amazing in my dress. It was such a fun time and I felt really sassy and powerful. I got some of the proofs back quickly and am so thrilled with the pictures. I shared one on a social channel and the response and feedback was overwhelming. After the shoot, I got changed and met some friends out for dinner still all made up.
    With the actual day coming up, I something else. I asked for what I wanted. I asked my daughter for a cake. She said yes. I asked my son to go out for ice cream. He said yes (this is a big deal because he does not like to leave the house). I really thought about what I wanted and it was a day of sailing. I asked my friend with the yacht and he said yes. Y'all it was so incredibly easy when I got clear about what I wanted, asked for it and let my people and the universe deliver.
    I've also be practicing gratitude. I have sent out cards and gifts this week to lots of people who have shown up for me this year. It feels really great to be in that position.
    My friends, I also want to thank you all for being here and showing up and being my support, despite my imperfections. I encourage each of you to treat yourself with the love, kindness and willingness to receive what you deserve that you would for your 50th birthday.
    XOXOXO and cake& bubbly, SS1

    1. SS1, This is SO AMAZING!! I'm so happy for you. And you deserve every single wonderful thing. And kudos to you for asking for exactly what you want, and having surrounded yourself with people who will give it to you, even if it means stretching their own comfort zone. That's amazing. You're modelling health and empowerment -- great gifts you're giving to those around you.
      And I don't doubt the pics are gorgeous. Even without glitter and a beautiful dress, you are stunning! Happy birthday, SS1. Bask in it.

    2. Happy happy birthday!!! What a wonderful way to celebrate!!! It is a new year of kick ass!

    3. Happy Birthday, Still Standing 1! What a great way to mark your half century. You know what you want and you know you are shining. Many happy returns!

  79. Still Standing1
    Happy birthday tomorrow! I’m so happy you did that for yourself! I’m 10 years older than you and the one thing I have learned through our nightmare is that I will always say what I need and I’m very clear about what I expect from my h. You deserve every good thing you get! I’m cheering you on for great things to come for this next year! You go girl!!

  80. Thank you both! The pictures turned out great. My new twitter profile pic is one of the untouched up ones. I couldn't wait. :) I was having a convo with a friend yesterday and she asked me what feeling turning 50 feels like for me. The interesting thing is that I didn't expect to feel any different, like most birthdays, but this time I do. 50 is a turning point, a stake in the sand. And I do feel different. I feel about as alive and vibrant and me as I ever have in my life. It feels like I've spent my entire life in a town, known every street and alley and then turned a corner and suddenly discovered there's a whole new side of the town I'd never seen before. It feels exciting, exhilarating. My future is a blank slate of possibility.
    And the photo session has had unexpected results too. I've found that in those moments when I am apt to get critical of my appearance, I can tune back into the feeling of that photo session, and how great I felt and also think about the pictures themselves and remember that that is me, unveiled, those are my bones and so that is still me. I don't know how long that will last, but it works for now. xoxo SS1

  81. Happy Belated Birthday SS1
    May the next 50 years be filled with much love, happiness and best wishes
    Gabby xo

    1. Thank you Gabby, I am catching up after not being on here for a while and for some reason I was not getting notices on my phone. Hugs and I miss you!

  82. Hi All,

    Tomorrow will be my court hearing day. Everything will come to the end tomorrow.
    I am not sure what my life will be moving forward but i do wish that it will be a good one.

    Wish me best of luck


    1. Lost AA, I am just now seeing your post about your court date. How are you doing? It must have been a tough day for you an I'm sorry for that. How are you feeling now, some days out? What has shifted for you? I felt relieved and free of a bug weight when my divorce was final. I hope you are feeling lighter too. This is a new beginning for you Lost AA. Hugs and love! SS1

    2. Hi SS1,
      Good and bad. Someday feel relieved but some day feel sad. Just keep trying to keep myself busy and upgrade myself to be better me, version 2.0.


  83. Hi ladies
    This part doesn't get much traffic happening now a days. I am hoping that's a good thing and marriages are being worked on for the better by the husbands.
    I read often, but can't always post as I don't have a computer and can't post from my phone.
    Hope you are all well
    Thinking of you all often.
    Gabby xo

  84. Hi friends, dropping in for an update. I know it s been so long. Some of it is me getting on with my life, really digging into my business and some new things for me. Big piece of news from me. I am going to Bali in Sept! I know! I am so excited. It is a retreat for a women's group I belong in and it is going to be awesome. More on that as it unfolds. It is part of a year long program on surrender and opening up to your own power. :) right up my alley.
    I had taken a break form dating after I broke up with the young man I had been seeing back in the spring. And then in November a new guy showed some interest. We were in the same volunteer group and he showed an interest. He's a very appealing person and we have a lot in common. We ended up spending Thanksgiving Day together since our respective kids were both with our respective exes that day. It was a really nice time. We had lots of chats over text, made plans to go to a museum. Did some hikes together. It was all going well until he crazy ex girlfriend caught a whiff that he was seeing someone and showed up after being MIA for literally 12 months.
    He talks a big game about their just friends and he broke up with her because they are so bad for each other. But I noted the whole picture and what I knew of his history that he had shared and prepared myself for the possibility that his boundaries were, in fact, shit. So once she appeared, he got really distant. My anxiety went through the roof and I was like here it is again, something is wrong here. So I straight up asked him "Hey Im sensing some distance. I"m wondering if you feel it too and if you have any ideas on what is happening?" and he responded with yes there probably was distance and then explained about the crazy, unhealthy ex etc. It was actually a very good, open conversation. And I think we both felt better and ore connected. He was going to be traveling for the holidays but we agreed on the museum we wanted to go to next and would pick a date later when he was back. He's texting me all along his travels etc. Just like a guy who is interested and open to a relationship.
    And then he gets back and we are not making plans. So finally I ask, because part of my new practice is asking for what I want. and he says he doesn't think it would be fair to spend one on one time with me while he is sorting out his past. Cute. I guess that is what the kids are calling, I;m banging my ex again, lol. But the man was still texting me as if we were dating. And I was not down with that. I have, now, a lot more self respect than that.
    SO here's how I responded.
    “Hi and good morning. I needed to take some time to think and here’s where I have landed. I’m looking for someone who’s willing to spend time with me one on one and open to seeing if that goes somewhere. You’ve made it clear you are not open to that with me. While I am a little hurt and disappointed, I’m not surprised. You’ve been stiff arming me since your “past” arrived on the scene.

    Just like you know you prefer to be head coach, I know I’m not OK being back up or second string. I will, of course, be fully supportive of you in our joint volunteer work. But outside of that I need some time and space to readjust. Thanks for listening.”
    And I clarified for him that I would no longer be available to him in the same way for chats etc. He apologized, genuinely. And I know in a few weeks or months or whatever, when his crazy ex ghosts him again, he's going to be kicking himself. But I have moved on and am so glad I did. Because this man was never fully in, I was anxious most of the time. I don't need to do that to myself again. I'm super proud of A) speaking up and B) getting myself out early and cleanly and respectfully.

  85. the other thing that happened similar vein. I had been seeing a reiki guy for energy work since before I separated. So we've known each other a long time and he's provided a lot of care and nurturing. But more recently, over the last few months I've increasingly felt ready to move on. And as I've fleet that, I've noticed his behavior shift. And he'll say things about how I;m not taking care of myself, which is just false. And I've had to assert clearly that some kinds of touching during sessions is not OK with me. Now there is skin to skin contact, similar to a massage, but it's been beginning to make me uncomfortable. So I spoke out loud about it to him and he respected that and changed his behavior. So then over the holidays, we had a session and he said something and it didn't register right away. Then I was driving home and I asked myself "did he say something about there being too much clothing?" did I hear that right? So at first I just didn't deal with it, but then it was time to go back but I made an excuse and didn't go. But this comment kept coming up. And finally, I messaged him about what was coming up for me. About the comment and what that felt like for me, that I wasn't seeing him for that and that I needed to not come and see him again.
    He was very apologetic. I resisted the urge to respond or make it better or say it was OK. This is all a super important breakthrough for me. I asserted a boundary and I am taking myself out of a relationship that no longer serves me.
    And discussing it with my coach, she pointed out that I first went to him when I needed to be rescued. And now that I no longer need him in that way, he is moving around the victim/rescuer/perp triangle to try and get me back where he needs me to be. Even without that thought, I knew that I was ready to move on. Not all relationships are forever. And that is OK.
    Again, I am proud of putting my needs first and asserting boundaries, and talking about what I was seeing and experiencing and moving away from that.

  86. I wrote about my story of my husband’s online romantic affair on another page. Found out about it when he had a stroke. Tonight he let me know he wants a divorce so he can pursue this lady and I am a flipping mess. How can this person I have shown complete loyalty to through lots of ups and downs over 23 years have thrown it all away like this? What about our kids? I know he is a liar and a cheater and he has mental health issues on top of that, but I still love him and I am losing my mind a bit.

    1. Shattered Dreams,
      I am so so sorry. I can imagine how shattered you feel. And no, it doesn't make sense, though, I suppose in the context of being a liar/cheater with mental health issues, this isn't someone who's making wise choices for himself.
      However...your job is to take care of you through this. To grieve the marriage you thought you had and move forward into your future in a way that's healthy. Do you have any outside support -- therapist, trusted friend, etc?

  87. Hey friends, it's been forever, but then there's been a pandemic on and we are all trying to survive. I'll try and update on all the fun, wonderful, crazy, scary and amazing things that have gone on since Jan. so I am going to write what Sam A calls "one of my novels" . I miss everyone and while I have other support networks there has never been one quite like the BWC.

  88. right after the boundary setting session in jan, I reconnected with an old work colleague, who, unbeknownst to me had always had kind of a thing for me. We went on some dates, chatted at length about our shared UK heritage and in general had a nice time. But try as I might I was not feeling a real physical attraction to him and something just felt off. There was sometimes waves of anxiety rolling off him. I wasn't sure that was something I wanted to sign up for managing, if he wasn't actively in therapy to learn how to manage it himself. So while I was making up my mind about if I wanted to continue dating him, queue the old college flame entering from stage left. This was my one who I let get away. We definitely had a connection way back when and man did sparks fly when we walked into the same room after a few decades. (a girlfriend who was with us commented on it later- very gratifying). One thing I got clear on from that was the the guy I was dating was not what I wanted. So I ended that gently and left space to see what my college flame would do.
    before I get to that I feel compelled to write how things played out with the UK guy. Tragically, he called me a couple weeks after breaking up absolutely shit-faced and weeping. Confessing that he had lied to me the whole time we were dating because he was an alcoholic, had been through treatment and had broken his sobriety rather than tell me on our first date that he was not drinking. I was flabbergasted. First, I made sure he was not going to harm himself, he was in such a state. Then as we talked a little bit more he started to blame me for encouraging him to drink and suggested I would have not wanted to date him if we couldn't have drinks. I called bullshit on that pretty quickly and let him know I have no problem not drinking, had dated a sober person before and all he had to do was tell me and we could have had tea instead. But he carries so much shame, I felt badly, but I also knew this was no longer someone safe to have in my life. I cut the call pretty quickly and encouraged him to get back into therapy etc.
    A few weeks later, when pandemic restricitions lightened here I needed to meet up with him to collect one of my cameras I had loaned him. it just went south from there. He started sending me passive aggressive texts. I told him he needed to stop and explained that until he dealt with his addiction he was not a safe person for me to have in my life. He kind of lost it then, not getting nasty, just repeatedly showing he has no idea how to have or respect boundaries and that he was clearly clinging to the incorrect notion that there might still be an "us" someday. All classic magical thinking of an addict. And lots of the flip flop of this is your fault, I'm so sorry that I used to get from my mother. Big nope. I ended up blocking him. Story over. Was pretty weird and first for me, I can tell you.

  89. college flame guy: after we reconnected in feb, he started calling me every night to chat. Its october now and he still does. we talk on the actual phone. Its been lovely and was especially grounding during the early days of the pandemic when we were all stuck inside and away from other humans. We both work pretty hard (him especially), he plays pretty hard (former pro mountain bike racer) and we live just under an hour apart, so we typically see each other once a week. But it is always so chill, so nice. Sometimes we cook at his place and watch a silly movie or we go for hikes, bike rides. Things have been going at a slow pace, which I suspect is actually healthy when compared to the instant-relationships that I've experienced post divorce. There's been a lot to challenge my anxious attachment style, but not in a bad way. His work is such that he can't talk during the day. I just need to deal with that. I've had to communicate to him about what makes me feel safe (i.e. knowing that we'll be getting together, even if you don't have a firm plan vs. not talking about that or just assuming). We are getting to know each other as people again and the old sketch I carried of him in my mind is slowly being filled in with the details of a real person. he's thoughtful (often sends me postcards from his weekend adventures) he's gentle, his energy is so soft. My sister noticed this while she was staying with me in Aug. and commented on it. Things have been progressing slowly for reasons that I will get into shortly, but progressing. i think that's the thing that has been toughest for me. I want the validation of a label, an all-inness, I want security in a form that is probably a teensy bit co-dependent. So instead I am trying to honor what he acknowledged to me, which is that he is slow and cautious. this surprised me because this is a guy who hurls himself downhill at high speeds on anything with two wheels. But I've noticed that this is true in other areas of his life. he takes a long time to think, sit with, process and inches toward his next steps with caution. Which fits in with the idea I am learning about now: how do one thing is we do everything" this is true in love, family, business. Our patterns play out the same in all those spheres. and I see that in him (and me!) Anyway, its been lovely and we are going away for my bday this weekend and I am super excited for it. We will road trip for about three hours, do some hiking, stay in an airbnb, find a place to eat. Will be interesting to see how we do spending and extended period of time and navigating decisions about where to go, what to do, sleep etc.
    I genuinely love and respect this person. he's a fabulous human being. And I believe there's the potential here for the bigger, deeper kind of love, that starts with two people who love themselves. Excited to see what that is like.

  90. Final update, I was diagnosed with early stage breast cancer in July. had surgery in early august. the surgeon got it all and my lymph nodes were clear, which means no spread. Hallelujah! I am the poster child for early detection. get your mammograms ladies! I just finished radiation. and will be starting an estrogen suppression therapy in a couple of weeks, which I will take for the next ten years. It was a scary time, but I have been so, so lucky with outcomes. Testing showed that I did not need chemotherapy. And my prognosis is good. I am currently cancer free and will be considered in remission until I hit the five year anniversary of my surgery, when I will be considered cured. So I have lots of maintenance between now and then, lots of exams and tests to track how I am doing. But these will taper over time. It's been scary, but I pretty quickly got to grateful. My family gathered around, my sister came and took care of me. despite my fears, my guy didn't head for the hills upon my diagnosis (still sometimes afraid of being too much, and cancer is a whole bunch of too much). The diagnosis also really progressed my healing with my ex. We had some big conversations early on about what would happen if I got really sick, and I learned from that that he would take care of me and the kids. We would not be homeless. He also drove me to two of the most terrifying diagnostic tests when I was in no state to drive myself. We now hang out easily and can chat when he comes over. We could before but it s a different level. We even discuss dating, he's in a new relationship with a person who sounds pretty decent. And I realized that what I hope for is for him to end up with someone that I would be OK hanging out with at graduations and weddings, if and when those happen for my kids. Someone who will be together enough not to see me as a threat. Maybe even someone I like and my kids can respect and enjoy having in their lives. There's some growth y'all. And he has not tried introducing her to the kids yet. that mad growth for him too. holidays are coming up, but I'm not worried about that. we'll navigate it. So anyway, that's been a really incredible impact of the diagnosis. That and finally making peace with my body. I will never go on anther crash diet or punish myself for not being the right size and weight. Still a work in progress, but now I know this is the only body I get and it is a damn good one and I deserve my kindness, love and care. So there's that too.
    Would love to hear updates from anyone who still reads this page. xoxo

    1. Wow! That's a saga but I'm loving that the "happily ever after" part is pretty much you loving yourself, no matter what.

    2. Thank you, that's a lovely idea. I claim that happy ending for myself no matter what. :)

    3. Hi SS1
      SO SO good hearing from you. I've missed you! xx
      So glad you posted. It’s so good to hear what you’ve been up to, and most importantly, you are now thriving health wise YAY!!!
      My lawyer said to me at one stage, “you must take care of you. Your kids need you”. I was just in a complete state of depression (over my financial situation), and I’ve heard it before how what we’ve been through.-holding on to the anger, the suffering etc, can lead to health problems. I’m fine...just still really hate my ex’s guts.
      I’m so glad you had a good support network rallying around you.
      My god. How weird is it being civil with your ex? Good for you if that’s what works for you.
      I still don’t communicate with mine at all.
      So glad you gave work guy the flick. You have not come this far to be weighed down by someone’s negative unhealthy energy.
      College guy sounds wonderful!!!
      Happy birthday, and I hope your weekend went well.
      So what have I been up to?
      Had to move out of my home.
      Not happy about this, as the land was perfect for my animals.
      It was sold for a shit price.
      I’m in a rental now and the yard is in need of a lot of constant work.
      All I’ve been doing is kids, animals and working, and trying to maintain this house. In many ways my life is great. The kids are with me, I’ve got my animals, I’m so glad ex is out of my life.
      The many years I gave so much of myself to try and keep my marriage/family together was for nothing, because the cheating bastard ended up leaving, and leaving me with nothing.

      Looking back, sometimes I could kick myself with how desperate I was to keep my marriage and family together. Hindsight’s wonderful - I would do things so different if I could go back, but I can’t. Bugger! I think I feel like that because all he’s shown is how much of a cruel and horrible person he is...and I was fighting to keep that! Ugggh. So, I’m so glad ex (and his horrible parents) are out of my life.

      But I think I’m probably just exhausted, worn out. I haven’t had a holiday in a few years, as I’m still only contracted part time, but pick up casual hours at 2 different jobs which ends up being a full weeks work. My job isn’t paying well, but trying to find another in this climate is proving difficult.
      I don’t know how you find the energy to date SS1. Before covid when I was out with my girlfriends, truthfully I was not interested in meeting anyone. One night when out with a group of women and men, one of my male friends told me he could see I had a wall up, as I had a few guys come up to me, and I instantly dismissed them. I told him - I’m fine with my wall, it’s not for you to worry about. That pissed me off someone thinking I needed to be out there and looking for a relationship. So that wall I had up, I turned into a fortress!
      I am very happy on my own. I love being in my own company and not walking on egg shells, not being around my ex narcissist- and being on my own makes me happy.
      Friends have tried to set me up. Guys have tried to pick me up, nope. Not interested. I know I shouldn’t say - never, but if I was ever to date again, my list of red flags is a long one, but that’s ok, because I’m a good person and I am not ever going to settle for mediocre ever again, just to have someone.
      The freedom to breathe fresh air and not my ex’s bs is so refreshing!

      I hope we hear how Phoenix, Sam A and Selkie are going.

      Biggest of hugs to you SS1

      Gabby xo

    4. Hi Gabby! So nice to hear from you. I'm glad to hear you are taking good care of yourself and through to better things (being free of your toxic ex). Hopefully life continues to improve now you are out from under that. It is weird sometimes being civil with my ex, but it does work for us and I know he has been in therapy this whole time and is trying to sort himself. Me too. We both have come a long way. I'm not saying it isn't still a challenge but for the most part we communicate better and are generally kinder and more gracious now that the tensions of our history and respective traumas are no longer playing out in a codependent hot mess of a marriage.
      I too look back and wonder why I fought so hard and gave him so much time. At the some time, I don't think I'd change anything. I needed to pass through those places and lessons.
      I've been out dating for many reasons, but I've always known that what I want is a loving healthy relationship. I want a partner and someone to go have adventures with. And, if I am being totally frank, to be intimate with, emotionally and physically. I don't want to spend the rest of my life celibate and I am not a hook up kind of person, so that means building a life with someone. I'm pretty clear that is what I want. I also can see why you would not even bee remotely interested Gabby. Your ex put you through hell over and over. It will take some time to heal from all that. But more to the point, even when you feel all the way healed, it doesn't mean you need or must seek out a partner to feel fulfilled. Your friend mistakenly assumed that a woman is incomplete without a man.
      Even with my new guy, the college flame, there are ups and downs. He's still working trough recovering from a toxic relationship that ended just two years ago. So sometimes there's a distance there that concerns me. On the other hand we do talk about it rather than pretend it is not there. I actively let him know that I am trying to make space for him to work through it and he is actually making an effort to work through it. No path is ever smooth or perfect (I'd be suspicious if it was) and for now this is working for me and giving me opportunities to grow too by giving me a safe place to work through anxiety and anxious attachment stuff. Its scary but worth it to me.
      Be well Gabby. Keep taking care of you and moving forward at your own pace. xoxo

  91. Still Standing 1
    I’m so sorry you had such a medical diagnosis! I’m impressed with your patience to seek better for yourself. This year has been a very different and difficult year for me as well. I’m still working on a better marriage and I’m still willing to watch as my h steps up . I had a major change last summer with my back. I have had bad disc since my early 30’s, but nothing kicked me down like a slipped disc that physical therapy couldn’t eliminate...then in January, I almost died from sepsis with an abscess tooth...and then Covid19 hit and the surgery I needed was not available for months... I finally had my surgery September 10, and I am doing so much better! I finished physical therapy and I will see my surgeon tomorrow and hopefully I will learn what more I can add to my daily life to regain strength. I’m limited to walking only and my h has had to do everything in the house and he is working from home since March. I don’t think he truly understood what I had to do to keep our house clean, groceries in the house, and meals on the table until he had to do it all and keep working...I have not worked a job in 10 years but I have had lots of time for gardening, sewing and grandchildren. He will retire in a few years unless the company he’s with goes under...either way, we have enough savings and retirement funds for us to begin that part of our journey at any time...It’s been a rough year for everyone due to the unknown but we welcomed a new granddaughter yesterday so life is a wonderful thing! I’m glad that you posted because I wonder about the brave ladies that helped me get through those rough years when I first learned of his betrayal... I do get the updates from the blog but rarely post as life gets busy when you are living in the pain and recovery of a major illness or surgery! Keep strong and keep marching towards the life you know you deserve! Much love! ❤️

    1. Oh Theresa, I'm so sorry to hear about your illness. How terrifying. I am so glad you finally got your surgery and are feeling so much better. Its also gratifying to see someone's eyes widen in realization when they step into your shoes, isn't it?
      Congrats on the baby granddaughter. I am hoping at least one of my kids will choose to make me a grandma someday! Otherwise I am going to have to adopt grand babies. ;)
      It is hard to keep up and to post too often, especially this year. So many ties were broken or changed. Still I find I gravitate back here and think often off all the amazing, strong women who supported me here when my days were darkest. xoxo

    2. Theresa,
      I'm so sorry to hear of your health issues. My daughter wound up in hospital with sepsis last March. Had NO idea how dangerous it is. I'm glad you're recovering!

  92. Gabby - can I just say … I'm SO PROUD OF YOU!!!!!!! I have read your response multiple times. I am in AWE of the change in your voice. I know that you have to feel the weight of the world lifted off!

    I haven't been around in a few years. I walked away from this group for my sanity. I was still with my husband, I had the new baby, and I was just living the motions.

    3 weeks ago my world came falling down again. But the difference is - I'm in such a different place than I was when I found out in 2017. This time, I had him out of the house within 10 minutes … and within 1 week I filed for divorce.

    I have spent 16 months in individual therapy shoring up my walls and I believe that truly has helped me in the past 3 weeks.

    He is now - finally - seeking treatment for his sex addiction. But at the end of the day I feel like it's a day late and a dollar short. I refuse to give myself even an inkling of hope because at this point, I'm ok with the direction I'm headed.

    Theresa - I'm sorry to hear that you had to wait for your surgery! I'm so glad to hear that you are headed in the right direction! I so often think about you and your strength.

    SS1 … you were such an integral part in my recovery my first time around. Your authentic voice and your vulnerability … it gave me hope.

    I'm walking with my head high … and trying desperately not to fall back into the spiral abyss I know is so possible.

    Elle - thank you again for this space. I'm so glad I logged into my little secret e-mail to see SS1s update today!

    1. Kimberly,
      Good to hear from you too! I'm also glad you checked into your secret e-mail (we all have those, right?). And glad you chose you, when faced with evidence that he is NOT doing the work he should have been doing all along. Whatever happens, you're going to be just fine. You know that, right?

    2. Elle - I do know that! 3 years ago I didn't believe it. 2 years ago … it was a fleeting belief. A year ago when I knew that I wasn't really in the marriage and knew that he wasn't doing the work I started making it my mantra so that should the inevitable happen … I would be ready.

      My SIL put it best - he's learning those hard life lessons at 40 that he never learned in his childhood. The saddest part is that those life lessons just keep piling on. His first affair partner from 2017 just served him with a Protective Order hearing notice yesterday. The newest affair partner is 51 and claiming to be pregnant … with multiples (which she claimed when she alleged to only be 4 weeks pregnant because her HCG levels were high). The divorce proceedings are in full force and he's NOT happy with my temporary orders. He's threatened suicide and on one of the kids visits I had to go get them because he "took 2 Klonopin before getting them" and was just completely out of it.

      My attorney is having a hay day with all of this. I am barely 2 weeks out and I'm quite certain that a majority of my retainer (which was for 15 hours) is almost completely gone.

      His attorney filed paperwork requesting 50/50 split custody and denying my maintenance request. We're a no fault state … but not when it comes to custody and it's at the judge's discretion on the percentage of maintenance.

      We'll see where I land.

      But … doesn't matter. I'm going to be JUST fine!

    3. Anom Oct 25, (Kimberly?)

      Thank you for sharing your story. You sound like you have a good handle on things. Good for you! I live in a no fault state too. I was thinking of trying for spousal maintenance too. But, 66 and no kids. Just am not working cause of the C-PTSD from him and DV. I'm hoping to go back in September but time will tell. I'm still pretty raw. It will be tough living on about $1200 month. No contact order now with court coming up on that.

      How is that working for you so far? You're a few months ahead of me as I am just getting started. Tough after 43 years cause there is a lot of crap to go thru. Physically and monetarily. I would be anxious to hear how you're doing. Take care!

  93. Kymberly! I am so sorry to hear you are going through this again, but you sound so solid. I think we can all look back and see some point when we were living the motions, and then we work through and we got lucky enough to find this place and we end up learning to heal ourselves and claim ourselves.
    Divorce is hard and staying is hard. We're here if you need us. xoxo

  94. Kymberly, I'm reading your post and so glad you are distancing yourself from his mess. It always blows my mind that men think we are the dramatic ones. They do love crashing in a massive, burning flame ball, some of them.
    And you are so right, you don't know where you'll land, but I can hear the self-trust in your words. it's scary as hell sometimes, but you WILL be OK.
    The day I got the notice that my divorce was final was bitter sweet. The struggle was over and I could be at peace. We had sorted out our financials and that had been in place for months. I also know how unusual my situation was in terms of the level of maintenance I receive and the ease with which we negotiated. You will come out the other side and it will feel like the morning of an unplanned Saturday. No idea what you are going to do, but the day is yours.
    Sending you hugs, love, peace and strength.

  95. Hey friends, hope you are all doing well. Thought I'd drop in for a check in. I had a first follow up MRI in early Jan which came back all clear, no sign of malignancy! Super happy about that and may have even cried a little bit about it. The meds have been a bit tough, make me very tired, but not all the time. I'm hoping I am more energized as they days begin to get longer. I'm still running and taking good care of myself so never you worry.
    In other news, my ex (you may recall that we have gotten to a good place and are on good terms with each other) has offered to buy me out of the house and I have agreed. I still live in the marital home which we jointly own and have my adult children full time with me (18 and 21 now, hard to believe). Also his mother still lives here, as does my ancient and decrepit lovely old dog. So he will be buying me out of the house in Sept. when my son goes off to his first year of college. I feel really good about this. It solves a lot of problems, provides continuity for my kids and relieves me of the burden of having to repair, clean out and prep for sale and deal with the actual selling of the house and all that nonsense and stress. Instead, I get to focus on cleaning out just my own stuff, taking the things that I want and leaving the rest (there's a lot of stuff stored in the attic that is his mother's or his family stuff anyway.) And although alimony will drop significantly, my business has done really well and my expenses will drop significantly too. I will also finally be relieved of the day to day responsibility for this place, his mother, and keeping the whole ship afloat.
    I will rent at first and let myself get used to my new budget and let some other things in my life play out for a while. I will only have to worry about cooking for me, cleaning up after me, suiting myself with my habits. It's going to be quite a shift. It's been a long long time (was there ever a time?)
    I'm looking forward to it.

  96. ss1 update part 2
    soon after my ex and I had agreed to this in principle, he came to the house in a bit of a state (he still comes several nights a week to make dinner for the kids and always feeds me too). Turns out his current landlord gave him 30 days notice to get out. Yikes. That same day, another landlord from the first place he rented when we were separated reached out because a piece of mail had shown up for him. That landlord has several small houses and cabins on a nice piece of property along the river. Turns out the nicest of the places, right on the river, was available. And my ex is moving right in. Thing is, when he told me all about that my first thought was "that's not for you. that's for me." And after a bit of conversation, we determined that come September when I sell the rest of our house to him, I will also take over the lease on the rental house and move in there. Its a perfect spot for me. One of the things I was going to miss the most about leaving was the easy access to my river trail. I run there several times a week and have for more than a decade. It's certainly been therapeutic. It might even be sacred ground for me. This house is on the very same trail on the very same river, just a few miles further upstream. It's really a lovely place and will be a good spot for me to ease into my new, empty nest life.
    I'm still dating my lovely college friend. I'm learning a ton about myself in relationship, we're taking it very slow (which is not always satisfying to my poor, recovering co-dependent heart) he's been really kind, patient, compassionate with me and vice versa. This is the thing that I need to give time. I know where I'd like things to go, but I also want to give it time to unfold in its own way.
    The rest of my life is decent. I have lovely clients, friends, family. I have not lost anyone to the pandemic. No one close to me has been seriously ill. I (touch wood) have not caught this thing and plan on keeping it that way. I'm also tired of it, as are we all. I try to give myself grace every day for getting through.
    Would love to have an update from any of you reading this. xoxo

  97. Still Standing 1
    It was nice to hear your updates.., I started last year with a tooth abscess that landed me in the hospital near sepsis...then COVID hit and shut down most of the health care in our state so I had to wait from March to September to get through all of the tests required for my back surgery... I thought it would be a simple procedure but of course it turned out to be a major surgery that took 8 weeks of therapy. My husband really had to step up and do everything for that entire cleaning shopping and laundry... lol I couldn’t wait to be able to get back to doing it all my know, the right way...we sold the family home place and my sister and I split the with Covid still present, husband is still working from home office...we’re blessed to have a choice of houses and we are now staying at our lake house and doing some major renovation to the back yard and tree removal...we were blessed with a new granddaughter last October and had a small but wonderful Christmas... I have no idea what normal is but for now I’m happy to be in my happy place and spring is just around the corner! Take care my friend and keep the updates coming...

  98. Hi ladies
    Theresa. Despite your health issues, which I hope you are doing well, it's good to hear you are happy, and how exciting, a new granddaughter.

    SS1 - so glad all is well with you too with your health. My. You have been busy. Glad your business is going well. It must feel strange having your kids grow up and off to college. Just getting messaged on my phone to pick up my kids as a few of them are out tonight. The ex. He very rarely picks them up. Yep. He's still an asshole.

    Kimberly!!! You are one amazing lady. Going through all this, especially with your little baby.
    I think all the shit we've been put through has made us stronger in a lot of ways. As SS1 said, we are here for you. How's the divorce proceedings going? Always go for more - doesn't hurt. I hope you have good support from family and friends around you.

    Big hugs to you all

    Gabby xo



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