I was reading one of your post from 2016 about the other woman and revenge and how you want to see her suffer. That's what I have been dealing with. I wanted to see her suffer like what I did and still do sometimes. But how much is that really my pain to carry around? She has to live with what she has done to me and my family. Knowing that I know the truth about what she had done to my husband by slipping him drugs in his coffee. I guess the pain I feel is why didn't I notice what she was doing when I was working there with them. He had come back to the kitchen one day and wanted to know what was wrong with me, that my eyes were spinning. He had just been sitting with her and a couple of other people going over what they were going to order from the vendors and having coffee. I remember wanting to address that when we got home but I got busy with my granddaughter and forgot. I too busy with everyday life with our family to notice what was really happening until his skin color was changing along with his personality. I guess the pain that is mine is living with why didn't I notice and try to stop it when I had some of the signs right in front of me. cathy
Cathy I'm guessing you feel guilt for not being able to stop what you had no idea needed to be stopped! That's not your guilt to carry but I'm sure it's a heavy load! I'm also guilty of wishing pain on the ow, up until she did have the greatest pain ever when her son died. I found compassion for her loss and felt great sadness for the child, he was only a teenager, but the next year, she attempted to resume contact and I had to find a way to once again deal with the pain she was causing. I'm finally at the point where she no longer matters again and as long as she leaves us alone she will never matter again! You'll get past those feelings! God knows if I could process all that I've had to, you too can get through it! Hugs!
Thank you Theresa. I understand her better now. I had talked to her about 5 weeks ago and she is just off her rocker. She told me that she could make my husbands life a living hell if she really wanted to. Fortunately she can't. He's changed is phone number twice and deleted all of the emails that he used at the restaurant. She's just grasping at straws to try and cause problems again. I'm beginning to come to a point in all of this mess where she isn't important anymore. I feel that I have more power over her than she does me and I can let things go that she say's to me easier because I've caught her in so many lies. I guess that it's just going to take time. The end of August marks 2 years. We don't live in the same state anymore and I have a better support group now then I did when it all happened. I appreciate everything you have said to me here and in other posts. Thank you again. Cathy
Cathy His cow also threatened to go to his office with a huge sign on her car unless he would meet up with her so she could look into his eyes to find the truth and have closure! He told her to do what ever she thought she had to and he was prepared to be very embarrassed but knew it would not cost him his job! That's about the time he decided he had to file harassment charges! Thankful that the judge finally convinced her to leave us alone! Hugs!
Cathy, Like you, there were things I wanted to "talk" to my husband about. Things that made me uncomfortable about his job with the OW. But life gets in the way. And then, one day, I just knew. And I suspect I'd known for a longer time. So part of my healing is forgiving myself for not calling him out sooner. For being trusting. For being loyal, perhaps blindly. And that's, perhaps, part of your healing too. Letting yourself off the hook. These women are devious and masterful deceivers. Whether or not she ever really acknowledges the twisted role she plays isn't for you to concern yourself. You focus on you. You continue to live a life of integrity and decency. There will always be screwed up people looking for other people to mess with. Hurt people hurt people. Healed people heal.
Thank you both for the nice words. I have discovered I like the new me that has come out of this mess. I am more confident and less likely to let people walk all over me. Trusting new people is a little harder now, and it makes me more cautious, probably something I should have learned along time ago from other things that had happened in my life. But you are right on the masterful deceivers. This wasn't the first time that this woman has done this and it won't be the last. I have to remember that she couldn't do it alone. She had to have her friends help her. Her best friend called my h one day after I found out and he came home, and demanded that he leave me to be with the OW. They thought that he could still be controlled like he was able to be when he mixed those drugs together and had no sleep. He had hung up on her. These women feel such entitlement with the choices they make. I went into working there as a decent person with integrity as did my husband. I did what I had to do to protect my family including getting a letter of restraint because I had made a scene in the restaurant the day he tried to commit suicide. My oldest daughter and I were desperate to find him. I never threatened anyone, but these women went scurrying like rats to cover up what they had done. The chiefs found out they all lied when everyone was interviewed by HR and said that I didn't. But the letter had already been sent to me to scare me. And just so you know, I framed it and before we moved I burned it. I realized too, these last few weeks that I will never come across anyone else who has gone through what we did. The only thing I can do to help others is to let them know what happened to us and how we have healed our lives so far as all of you have done. She doesn't play such a significant role in my thoughts anymore after the last conversation I had with her. I now find this group of women to be pitied. :)
I love this quote. D day did force me to put down everything non essential so I could carry myself alone and survive. Doing that made me realize how I'd been neglecting my own happiness for a while. Now I hesitate before I take anything extra on.
We had an argument last weekend and after things had calmed down, he reminded me that it has only been a year for me, but two years since they broke up. D day was 6/19/16, That is so not true. I found his emails from 2015 and they were pretty hot and heavy. Her boyfriend and I broke them up because I saw him two days later and told him everything. So, I wrote a detailed time line, read him the letter to him the next day and asked if he cared to debate my facts. He couldn't get away with gaslighting. One thing I wrote was that I wished he could live my life for 10 minutes. Just 10 minutes to really feel what I feel. Perhaps then he would understand my triggers, my panic attacks and my abject sorrow. While I am not the bat crap crazy person I was a year ago, I still feel bad. I wish my faith in God had not been so shaken, because He wants to carry our burdens
Beagle mom I had to go deep into my faith in God in order to drag myself out of the pit in the first few days and I had to believe that God had a plan for us to get through the mess and begin to rebuild a new marriage. It's taking a long time for us but we agree that we have the rest of our lives to get it right. I too have those days where I feel bad but for me if I stay in the present I get through the sad days. I'm lucky I didn't have h who gaslights! Mine came totally clean with the whole sordid story that first year but I didn't really understand most of it for the first two years. He had to learn how to help me through so many triggers and I think it was when I realized that he also had triggers of his guilt and shame that I was able to find a way through some of the triggers by myself. I'm still a work in progress! God is great at carrying our burdens when we allow Him! Hugs!
Beagle Mom, I hear you saying you still feel panicky, but you sound pretty empowered to me -- I think it took me longer than you before I learned to tell my H what I needed him to hear.
Regarding that, here's two things that helped me, and I hope they help you too:
1. My counselor had me list all the ways that his affairs hurt me. Everything went on the list: practical, financial, physical, emotional, spiritual, etc. Pages. She had me make the list for myself, then after we discussed in counseling, give it to him and discuss. My H said that had a big impact on his understanding of me/us.
2. I asked my H to read this article: http://affaircare.com/articles/understanding-your-loyal-spouse/ Again, it really helped him understand. He had felt "sorry," but I don't think he really knew what he was sorry about until he could know in detail the extent of how his actions affected me.
Theresa and Sal, thank you both for your kind words of encouragement. I have learned so much from this site. I'll be pulling out some books on prayer and fear that some Christian friends had given me. I'll also be reading that article and will give it to him when the time is right. Guess I'm just going through a down time, but have come such a long way. You both provided great advice and I will pay this forward.
Beagle Mom, I sometimes think that if most of these guys were capable of the empathy we're asking of them, to really understand our point of view, they wouldn't have been able to get into this mess. They can learn, sure. But so many resist because acknowledging just how painful it is for us makes them feel awful. And who wants that? And so they minimize, and gaslight, and somehow convince themselves that, sure it was bad but it wasn't as bad as we're saying it is. That affaircare article is a great one. All cheating husbands should read it.
Elle, that article link was good although I'm not sure my husband would relate much since his choice was massage parlors and prostitutes so if you have an article like the one referenced above for him I'd love it. I know I experienced (still do) all of those feelings after D-day myself.
I loved the article. Thank you for sharing it :) I told my husband yesterday that I wanted him to read it . So he said " you want me to sit down like a student and read with You?"
Please let me know what's the best way to deal with the gifts she gave him (clothes and a watch) he never used them. Do we return them to her or give them to charity?
There are so many things about betrayal that weighed me down. Figuring out which ones to let go was very hard. Which ones did I need to let go? Which ones were I ready to let go? Which ones were protecting me that I shouldn't let go? It took over a year and it is still ongoing. The first one to go "this is not my fault". Then "I'm not good enough, smart enough, pretty enough, sexy enough this was a long list. Then came, "he not a bad person he made terrible choices". Then "I want to hurt the OW". Then "I'm selfish when I establish boundaries." Then "Letting go of things I was never meant to carry. Like making someone happy. Like not feeling guilty about things for myself. Asking the question - do they want to do this for them or me?". I'm never going to trust him so that one I"m keeping. I'm keeping authenticity. Learning to be authentic and facing the push back but holding MY GROUND is still happening. Don't get me wrong, some of these aren't bad but can still weigh you down. Did I miss something that maybe someone let go that I don't even know I'm carrying?
Sorry more thing he said this week. I'm almost 3 years out ok. He said all our marriage took was a 100% commitment from me. Ok, that made me think what was I carrying when he wasn't 100% committed? That load had to be severe. No wonder I ended up being a fat critical bitch. I didn't start out that way. We have been together 37 years minus the two years he was with pyscho-bitch kindergarten teacher. Cavemen that is all they are is cavemen.
That statement of him not being 100% committed and the load you had to carry that hits home. So true. No wonder I was worn down. I can see it looking back it makes me sad but is also liberating. It makes me feel frustrated but yet so strong. I made it through all of that and to the point I am at now. This is all so eye opening.
Lynn less pain I feel the same way! Cave man indeed! I'm not sure if I could handle being told I needed to be 100% committed and not have a spasm trying not to spit in his face asking how committed he was to us when he was sexing his fuck buddie! Her words for herself and yes I know too many details of his yuck fest! Just so you know, I ended up a fat critical bitch too, like you he shares the results of his actions, however, silver lining is I lost all the weight and somehow I came out healthier than before. One day at a time and one foot in front of the other!
Please advise me. I don't know why her gifts are now causing me a strange annoying anxious feeling. She gave him clothes and a watch. He hasn't used them at all. Still new. I feel should return the stuff to her and allow her to decide what she would like to do with them. Another solution would be to give them to charity. Please let me know what you would do. What I should do.
I wouldn't return them to her because I believe, strongly, that no contact means no contact. None at all. Even you returning the gifts, while it would be momentarily satisfying, is contact -- and a lot of these women thrive on anything that keeps them in his/your life. Instead, I would sit with your husband and come up with a plan of some good you can do with these. Give them to people on the street? Donate them to some fundraiser (if watch is brand-new, can be auctioned off)? Have a bonfire? Is there any way to turn something nasty (these gifts) into something that brings you two closer? That you can problem-solve together?
The OW had bought my h a cell phone after I found out. This was her way of trying to still have control. He had called my the day after he was admitted to the hospital and told me where the phone was hidden in his truck. I found the phone and then sent her a text telling her that I found it. She told me " I don't care I don't want it back." So I smashed it into little pieces and put it in the garbage. When my h got home from the hospital he cleaned out his truck and started throwing all of these new Yankee tshirts and ball caps into the trash. The manager of the restaurant had a Yankee booth at the state fair. He then started tossing out anything that had to do with the Onondaga Nation, water bottles, dream catchers, and tobacco that was supposed to be for protection, that one came from one of the elder women of the nation that she had given him before this whole mess started. Having contact with these women makes them think that they have some kind of power over us. Elle is right, burn them, give them away but do not let her know that it bothers you to have them. Don't ever give her the satisfaction of having contact with her.
Amen to that sister!
ReplyDeleteI was reading one of your post from 2016 about the other woman and revenge and how you want to see her suffer. That's what I have been dealing with. I wanted to see her suffer like what I did and still do sometimes. But how much is that really my pain to carry around? She has to live with what she has done to me and my family. Knowing that I know the truth about what she had done to my husband by slipping him drugs in his coffee. I guess the pain I feel is why didn't I notice what she was doing when I was working there with them. He had come back to the kitchen one day and wanted to know what was wrong with me, that my eyes were spinning. He had just been sitting with her and a couple of other people going over what they were going to order from the vendors and having coffee. I remember wanting to address that when we got home but I got busy with my granddaughter and forgot. I too busy with everyday life with our family to notice what was really happening until his skin color was changing along with his personality. I guess the pain that is mine is living with why didn't I notice and try to stop it when I had some of the signs right in front of me.
ReplyDeletecathy
Cathy
DeleteI'm guessing you feel guilt for not being able to stop what you had no idea needed to be stopped! That's not your guilt to carry but I'm sure it's a heavy load! I'm also guilty of wishing pain on the ow, up until she did have the greatest pain ever when her son died. I found compassion for her loss and felt great sadness for the child, he was only a teenager, but the next year, she attempted to resume contact and I had to find a way to once again deal with the pain she was causing. I'm finally at the point where she no longer matters again and as long as she leaves us alone she will never matter again! You'll get past those feelings! God knows if I could process all that I've had to, you too can get through it! Hugs!
Thank you Theresa. I understand her better now. I had talked to her about 5 weeks ago and she is just off her rocker. She told me that she could make my husbands life a living hell if she really wanted to. Fortunately she can't. He's changed is phone number twice and deleted all of the emails that he used at the restaurant. She's just grasping at straws to try and cause problems again. I'm beginning to come to a point in all of this mess where she isn't important anymore. I feel that I have more power over her than she does me and I can let things go that she say's to me easier because I've caught her in so many lies. I guess that it's just going to take time. The end of August marks 2 years. We don't live in the same state anymore and I have a better support group now then I did when it all happened. I appreciate everything you have said to me here and in other posts. Thank you again.
DeleteCathy
Cathy
DeleteHis cow also threatened to go to his office with a huge sign on her car unless he would meet up with her so she could look into his eyes to find the truth and have closure! He told her to do what ever she thought she had to and he was prepared to be very embarrassed but knew it would not cost him his job! That's about the time he decided he had to file harassment charges! Thankful that the judge finally convinced her to leave us alone! Hugs!
Cathy, Like you, there were things I wanted to "talk" to my husband about. Things that made me uncomfortable about his job with the OW. But life gets in the way. And then, one day, I just knew. And I suspect I'd known for a longer time. So part of my healing is forgiving myself for not calling him out sooner. For being trusting. For being loyal, perhaps blindly.
DeleteAnd that's, perhaps, part of your healing too. Letting yourself off the hook.
These women are devious and masterful deceivers. Whether or not she ever really acknowledges the twisted role she plays isn't for you to concern yourself. You focus on you. You continue to live a life of integrity and decency. There will always be screwed up people looking for other people to mess with. Hurt people hurt people. Healed people heal.
Thank you both for the nice words. I have discovered I like the new me that has come out of this mess. I am more confident and less likely to let people walk all over me. Trusting new people is a little harder now, and it makes me more cautious, probably something I should have learned along time ago from other things that had happened in my life. But you are right on the masterful deceivers. This wasn't the first time that this woman has done this and it won't be the last. I have to remember that she couldn't do it alone. She had to have her friends help her. Her best friend called my h one day after I found out and he came home, and demanded that he leave me to be with the OW. They thought that he could still be controlled like he was able to be when he mixed those drugs together and had no sleep. He had hung up on her. These women feel such entitlement with the choices they make. I went into working there as a decent person with integrity as did my husband. I did what I had to do to protect my family including getting a letter of restraint because I had made a scene in the restaurant the day he tried to commit suicide. My oldest daughter and I were desperate to find him. I never threatened anyone, but these women went scurrying like rats to cover up what they had done. The chiefs found out they all lied when everyone was interviewed by HR and said that I didn't. But the letter had already been sent to me to scare me. And just so you know, I framed it and before we moved I burned it. I realized too, these last few weeks that I will never come across anyone else who has gone through what we did. The only thing I can do to help others is to let them know what happened to us and how we have healed our lives so far as all of you have done. She doesn't play such a significant role in my thoughts anymore after the last conversation I had with her. I now find this group of women to be pitied. :)
DeleteI love this quote. D day did force me to put down everything non essential so I could carry myself alone and survive. Doing that made me realize how I'd been neglecting my own happiness for a while. Now I hesitate before I take anything extra on.
ReplyDeleteWe had an argument last weekend and after things had calmed down, he reminded me that it has only been a year for me, but two years since they broke up. D day was 6/19/16, That is so not true. I found his emails from 2015 and they were pretty hot and heavy. Her boyfriend and I broke them up because I saw him two days later and told him everything. So, I wrote a detailed time line, read him the letter to him the next day and asked if he cared to debate my facts. He couldn't get away with gaslighting. One thing I wrote was that I wished he could live my life for 10 minutes. Just 10 minutes to really feel what I feel. Perhaps then he would understand my triggers, my panic attacks and my abject sorrow. While I am not the bat crap crazy person I was a year ago, I still feel bad. I wish my faith in God had not been so shaken, because He wants to carry our burdens
ReplyDeleteBeagle mom
DeleteI had to go deep into my faith in God in order to drag myself out of the pit in the first few days and I had to believe that God had a plan for us to get through the mess and begin to rebuild a new marriage. It's taking a long time for us but we agree that we have the rest of our lives to get it right. I too have those days where I feel bad but for me if I stay in the present I get through the sad days. I'm lucky I didn't have h who gaslights! Mine came totally clean with the whole sordid story that first year but I didn't really understand most of it for the first two years. He had to learn how to help me through so many triggers and I think it was when I realized that he also had triggers of his guilt and shame that I was able to find a way through some of the triggers by myself. I'm still a work in progress! God is great at carrying our burdens when we allow Him! Hugs!
Beagle Mom,
DeleteI hear you saying you still feel panicky, but you sound pretty empowered to me -- I think it took me longer than you before I learned to tell my H what I needed him to hear.
Regarding that, here's two things that helped me, and I hope they help you too:
1. My counselor had me list all the ways that his affairs hurt me. Everything went on the list: practical, financial, physical, emotional, spiritual, etc. Pages. She had me make the list for myself, then after we discussed in counseling, give it to him and discuss. My H said that had a big impact on his understanding of me/us.
2. I asked my H to read this article: http://affaircare.com/articles/understanding-your-loyal-spouse/
Again, it really helped him understand. He had felt "sorry," but I don't think he really knew what he was sorry about until he could know in detail the extent of how his actions affected me.
Peace to you.
Theresa and Sal, thank you both for your kind words of encouragement. I have learned so much from this site. I'll be pulling out some books on prayer and fear that some Christian friends had given me. I'll also be reading that article and will give it to him when the time is right. Guess I'm just going through a down time, but have come such a long way. You both provided great advice and I will pay this forward.
DeleteSal
DeleteI'm glad you shared the link. It's full of very good information and I really think all the h out there should be reading it too!
Beagle Mom,
DeleteI sometimes think that if most of these guys were capable of the empathy we're asking of them, to really understand our point of view, they wouldn't have been able to get into this mess. They can learn, sure. But so many resist because acknowledging just how painful it is for us makes them feel awful. And who wants that? And so they minimize, and gaslight, and somehow convince themselves that, sure it was bad but it wasn't as bad as we're saying it is.
That affaircare article is a great one. All cheating husbands should read it.
Elle, that article link was good although I'm not sure my husband would relate much since his choice was massage parlors and prostitutes so if you have an article like the one referenced above for him I'd love it. I know I experienced (still do) all of those feelings after D-day myself.
DeleteWhat a great article! I wish I would have had this a year and a half ago.
DeleteI loved the article. Thank you for sharing it :)
ReplyDeleteI told my husband yesterday that I wanted him to read it . So he said " you want me to sit down like a student and read with You?"
Please let me know what's the best way to deal with the gifts she gave him (clothes and a watch) he never used them. Do we return them to her or give them to charity?
ReplyDeleteCharity or the trash can. No contact with OW.
DeleteThere are so many things about betrayal that weighed me down. Figuring out which ones to let go was very hard. Which ones did I need to let go? Which ones were I ready to let go? Which ones were protecting me that I shouldn't let go? It took over a year and it is still ongoing. The first one to go "this is not my fault". Then "I'm not good enough, smart enough, pretty enough, sexy enough this was a long list. Then came, "he not a bad person he made terrible choices". Then "I want to hurt the OW". Then "I'm selfish when I establish boundaries." Then "Letting go of things I was never meant to carry. Like making someone happy. Like not feeling guilty about things for myself. Asking the question - do they want to do this for them or me?". I'm never going to trust him so that one I"m keeping. I'm keeping authenticity. Learning to be authentic and facing the push back but holding MY GROUND is still happening. Don't get me wrong, some of these aren't bad but can still weigh you down. Did I miss something that maybe someone let go that I don't even know I'm carrying?
ReplyDeleteSorry more thing he said this week. I'm almost 3 years out ok. He said all our marriage took was a 100% commitment from me. Ok, that made me think what was I carrying when he wasn't 100% committed? That load had to be severe. No wonder I ended up being a fat critical bitch. I didn't start out that way. We have been together 37 years minus the two years he was with pyscho-bitch kindergarten teacher. Cavemen that is all they are is cavemen.
ReplyDeleteThat statement of him not being 100% committed and the load you had to carry that hits home. So true. No wonder I was worn down. I can see it looking back it makes me sad but is also liberating. It makes me feel frustrated but yet so strong. I made it through all of that and to the point I am at now. This is all so eye opening.
DeleteLynn less pain
DeleteI feel the same way! Cave man indeed! I'm not sure if I could handle being told I needed to be 100% committed and not have a spasm trying not to spit in his face asking how committed he was to us when he was sexing his fuck buddie! Her words for herself and yes I know too many details of his yuck fest! Just so you know, I ended up a fat critical bitch too, like you he shares the results of his actions, however, silver lining is I lost all the weight and somehow I came out healthier than before. One day at a time and one foot in front of the other!
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeletePlease advise me. I don't know why her gifts are now causing me a strange annoying anxious feeling.
ReplyDeleteShe gave him clothes and a watch. He hasn't used them at all. Still new. I feel should return the stuff to her and allow her to decide what she would like to do with them. Another solution would be to give them to charity. Please let me know what you would do. What I should do.
I wouldn't return them to her because I believe, strongly, that no contact means no contact. None at all.
DeleteEven you returning the gifts, while it would be momentarily satisfying, is contact -- and a lot of these women thrive on anything that keeps them in his/your life.
Instead, I would sit with your husband and come up with a plan of some good you can do with these. Give them to people on the street? Donate them to some fundraiser (if watch is brand-new, can be auctioned off)? Have a bonfire? Is there any way to turn something nasty (these gifts) into something that brings you two closer? That you can problem-solve together?
Thank you very much. Will show your reply to my husband:)
DeleteI also want to tell you that unfortunately there still is contact. She's a co worker and this will not change for another few months.
DeleteThe OW had bought my h a cell phone after I found out. This was her way of trying to still have control. He had called my the day after he was admitted to the hospital and told me where the phone was hidden in his truck. I found the phone and then sent her a text telling her that I found it. She told me " I don't care I don't want it back." So I smashed it into little pieces and put it in the garbage. When my h got home from the hospital he cleaned out his truck and started throwing all of these new Yankee tshirts and ball caps into the trash. The manager of the restaurant had a Yankee booth at the state fair. He then started tossing out anything that had to do with the Onondaga Nation, water bottles, dream catchers, and tobacco that was supposed to be for protection, that one came from one of the elder women of the nation that she had given him before this whole mess started. Having contact with these women makes them think that they have some kind of power over us. Elle is right, burn them, give them away but do not let her know that it bothers you to have them. Don't ever give her the satisfaction of having contact with her.
Delete