"Sometimes when we seek the gaze of another, it’s not our partner we are turning away from, but the person we have become. We are not looking for another lover so much as another version of ourselves. ... So often, the most intoxicating “other” that people discover in an affair is not a new partner; it’s a new self."
~Esther Perel, Why Happy People Cheat
Those words would have made me spit with anger if I'd read them in the early days following the discovery of my husband's affair. So I can imagine how more than a few of you are feeling right now. "Who the hell cares if he's discovered a 'new version of himself'," I can hear you yelling at your computer. "I am destroyed by this."
And yes, it can be painful to hear some of the rhetoric around how affairs can help some cheaters get in touch with their own pain, or about how an affair can actually deepen a marriage. No matter that it's true. Who cares when my own heart is shattered! Why couldn't he get in touch with his pain without hurting me?
I hear you. And I agree. Just because he was so messed up that he thought he could find salvation in the arms of some woman with a trunk full of her own emotional baggage, why do I – and my children – have to pay the price?
Fair question. And the answer, unfortunately, isn't very satisfying. Life isn't fair. Sometimes we are asked to show up for things that we didn't ask for. Often we are delivered situations that just suck.
This, clearly, is one of those times.
And yet.
And yet, there's so much truth and freedom in what Perel is saying that if you can find the space in your shattered heart to even consider it, it just might change everything.
Because the thing with infidelity is that our first response, our knee-jerk response, is almost always to point the finger at ourselves. What is wrong with me that he would cheat? What does she have that I don't? Even those of us who are more charitable with ourselves can still find themselves wondering how they could have been so stupid as to miss that their partner was cheating.
It's all about self-blame. It's about thinking we could control way more than we can actually control.
It's about thinking his affair was about us. When it wasn't about us at all.
It defies logic, doesn't it? How can he cheat on us and yet it has nothing to do with us? Of course, it has something to do with us, our rational brains insist. We are the injured party. We are the ones to whom he pledged fidelity.
I remember the morning after a long night of "but why..." and "but how...", that I asked my husband how he could drive off in the morning toward her house and leave me to take care of three young children. "But that's the thing," he said to me, exhausted and exasperated from my endless questions and lack of sleep. "I wasn't thinking about you at all."
Heartless, isn't it?
And yet.
And yet, in that moment, the light went on. A-ha! His affair wasn't about hurting me. It wasn't about me at all. In the Venn diagram of marriage and affair, there was no overlap. It was simply two circles, side by side.
I wasn't even outraged, though I was aware that this was completely fucked up. Instead, I was grateful. I was off the hook. This was completely on him. It had nothing to do with me. It wasn't because I wasn't skinny enough or successful enough or young enough or any of the personal shortcomings I thought were the reason.
In Perel's telling, "happy" people cheat, though I've never seen that up close. My husband cheated because he was looking for something outside of himself that he lacked inside himself. He cheated because he was in pain and he had no remedy for it, indeed he could barely recognize his own pain. He cheated because, as Perel says, he was looking for another version of himself, so disappointed he was in the current version.
In another of Perel's podcasts, a husband who cheated throughout his marriage describes it this way: "The sadness runs all the time. Never goes away. It was there before but I didn't know it. I made sure never to feel it."
This guy didn't find that better version of himself in the affair. But he did find it in healing from the affair. It was the same for my husband. It was when he could fully acknowledge the pain he'd caused, when he could face the shame that had driven so much of his behaviour for so much of his life, that he could unshackle himself from it.
Yay for him, right? And all it took was completely devastating me. Small price to pay, huh?
Of course not. And though it took time, I became able to recognize that the complete unravelling of my husband, while creating the conditions for wholesale change that he needed, nonetheless caused me incredible pain. It damn near killed me. And our marriage was precarious for a long time.
But, with the long view, I can also admit that my marriage was precarious before I knew it was. When one partner is so disconnected to his own heart, and consequently, to his spouse, the marriage is already on life support, even if the tubes are hidden.
Whether or not my marriage survived, we each had wounds that needed attention. That we were able to heal together – and to rebuild a marriage – is a bonus.
We both discovered intoxicating others in ourselves. He can face himself in a mirror having long since stared down the shame that had ruled so much of his life. I too can face myself in a mirror, clear-eyed, having been roughly invited to tend to some long festering wounds from childhood that insisted I was unworthy of love.
Perel's words can feel like tough medicine to swallow so take a tiny dose, if that's all you can manage. But don't discard her words completely. They just might offer you the liberation that you need in order to move forward and heal yourself
The kickass survival site for anyone who's ever been lied to, cheated on and left for dead.
This is so timely for me. Unfortunately in the past week I have run into BOTH of my h’s OW. Seeing the first, who is younger than me and very pretty, had me in a spiral about my looks (h insists I am much more attractive than her but why would I listen when I can beat myself up instead?). Seeing the second OW yesterday just reminded me of the ways I had contributed to the distance in our marriage at the time that affair started. So I was putting all of this back on ME.
ReplyDeleteA recent visit from my in-laws reminded me that my h grew up in a very critical home where he was not given affection or affirmation. His first experiences of those things happened when he got in really good shape physically in his late teens and girls were after him. To him, attention from women and sex became tied up with affirmation of him as a person. Shame also got tied up with those and all of THAT was what led to the affairs. Not my looks or the issues in our marriage.
Now he is learning to see the good in himself and believe honest words of affirmation. And I have found out something amazing about myself. I always framed myself as not very emotional. But really what I am is emotionally resilient. It’s not that this isn’t incredibly painful, but I am dealing with it and I am letting myself be PROUD of myself for how I can.
Well Poppy, for what it's worth. I think you're WAY prettier than the OW because your soul shines like a diamond while hers is little more than a rotting fish. ;)
DeleteSeriously, though, I'm so glad you were able to use both those experiences to 1) recognize how you beat yourself up and that it's YOUR words to yourself that are causing pain and 2) that you were able to extend compassion and understanding to your husband for how his hyper-critical family shaped his own sense of self and set him on the path toward seeking affirmation through attention/sex. Those are both huge steps toward being kinder to yourself and letting yourself off the hook for your husband's infidelity. You should be proud!
Hi Poppy, I was wondering when you have run into the OW do you acknowledge each other in any way? I had a dream just last night about running into the OW. In the dream my husband and I went into a playhouse that was near the end of her driveway. After a little bit she walked in looked at my husband and said "is that Lucy?" he nodded yes and she walked over and hugged me. I hugged her back. It was as if we were both saying "i am so sorry lets be over this, you don't seem like the enemy I thought you were. I am five years from DD but still often feel slightly obsessed with her. Part of me just aches for some kind of closure between us. I know that is highly unlikely and totally unrealistic. I have no reason to believe she has any remorse. She very aggressively went after my husband, and threatened him that if he stopped seeing her she would come to the house and tell me all about them. She has since gone on to break up a different older man's marriage and they have a baby together. I wish I felt nothing about her and had zero interest in her life. Time has certainly helped but I would like to be over her for good. I have a feeling I am way more attached than either my husband or her as they have both seemed to have done a better job moving on than I have. And thank you Elle for your wise words as always. Lucy
DeleteHello! The first OW is someone my husband and I both work with and we used to socialize with her husband and her. We stopped socialing when she and her husband split up and, unbeknownst to me at the time, my husband was freezing her out (the cowardly way to end an affair). I didn’t know about the affair so I was always very friendly with her when I saw her at work over the past couple of years, which is pretty rare. I only found out about it last Nov and hadn’t seen her between then and last week. I walked into a meeting room and she happened to be in there. She said hello to me and the woman I was walking with and I ignored her. I think she tried to say hello to me specifically after that but I was getting my computer out of my bag and didn’t even look up. She must have taken the message because when I walked past her yesterday she didn’t try to speak to me. She has had zero consequences from the affair because when she started up with my husband she was already wanting out of her marriage and I don’t think she ever told her ex she cheated. I know it’s petty but I really hope she feels deeply ashamed when she sees me. I’m sure she has her own justification. Part of me wishes she’d ask why I’m no longer speaking to her so I could justify telling her exactly what I think of her.
DeleteThe second OW, who had been my “friend” lives in my neighborhood. A couple of days after d day she texted me to apologize. I told her I had nothing to say to her and it was now between my h and me and between her h and her. She told me she had pursued my h and it was all her fault so I shouldn’t blame him. I wanted to tell her there was enough blame to go around but I decided it was best to just end the conversation there and let her know I had no desire to communicate with her anymore. One time a month later I drove past her while she was running and she waved to me (I used to run with her so I know she never waved at people). I ignored her and as I drove past I could see her shaking her head like she had expected me to wave? Maybe she thinks I will get over it and be friendly again. That’s never, ever going to happen. I do have some sense of closure or justice or whatever with her because I know her husband and I’m sure she is having hell to pay in her marriage right now. I’m pretty sure her plan was to blow up both marriages and run off with my husband to start a new life and that did not happen. Instead she lost him, lost my friendship, and made her own life miserable.
I read this post early this morning and it hit home. Your words, Elle, are things that have played over and over in my head. Why did my children and I have to pay the price when he was the one with issues? Why did it take nearly destroying me for him to become the person he is today? And sadly, there’s that realization that life’s not fair and really shitty things happen to good people.
ReplyDeleteWe’re approaching the three year anniversary of d-day and most days are good. But I’ve been in kind of a funk lately. Wondering sometimes if the pain ever completely goes away. Wondering how I could have been so wrong about the person my husband was. Wondering how people can be so selfish to hurt others in the ways we’ve all been hurt. Because in my mind I’ve always felt I wasn’t capable of doing anything nearly as damaging. I’ve continued in many ways to tell myself that it had to be partially about me. Because if I had been valuable enough, he wouldn’t have risked losing me. If she hadn’t been worthwhile, he wouldn’t have chosen her over being faithful. I’ve confinued to tell myself these things despite what my husband has said, despite what our therapist has said, despite what the books on infidelity say, and despite what I read here regularly. Hanging onto that feeling that it had anything to do with me keeps me tied to the past. Yes, my husband created much of the damage, but I only damage myself further by buying into the stories I tell myself. It’s time to give myself a break.
Poppy, what you said about your husband’s childhood is another part of our story too. My husband’s childhood was so dramatically different than mine. His father was the center of the household and everything revolved around him. Everyone tiptoed around him for fear of making him angry. And I think my MIL took the path of least resistance to avoid it, even at the expense of the kids. I saw glimpses of it still years after my husband and I were married. My husband sought attention and affirmation as an adult to compensate for what he didn’t receive as a child. If people paid attention to him, he felt that validated him as a person. It’s hard for me to comprehend. And at the same time, it makes me sad.
This post is so valuable and so true. I’m sure I’ll re-read it many times.
Dandelion,
DeleteI still felt pain at three years. It does go away. But I think we have to be really cognizant of the ways in which we continue to propagate the pain, in the stories we tell ourselves about what the affair meant about us.
I would urge you to consider what messages about yourself you brought into the marriage, messages that, perhaps, his affair confirmed for you. Where else, in your life, have you felt unvalued? Where else, in your past, have you felt that you had to be beyond reproach in order to be lovable at all? In what other areas do you believe that people can't make mistakes and still be worthy of being loved? I suspect that if you do some deep excavating, you'll find that there are messages about yourself that existed before your husband cheated...and that his cheating only confirmed what you already suspected.
As for your husband, are you able to look at what he endured as a child and feel empathy for him instead of sadness? Is he able to do that for himself? I remember once saying to my therapist that I could only stand to be around my mother-in-law for 24 hours max before I felt like screaming inside. "Imagine," she said to me, "living with that every day. And never being able to get away from it." It finally drove home why my husband had become who he was, someone who lived with shame and deep hurt.
I'm not making excuses for your husband's behaviour at all. It was incredibly hurtful to you. But it wasn't about you. Hurt people hurt people. Even people they love deeply.
This is so true. For the last 2 1/2 years I blamed myself even though my husband said that it had nothing to do with me and really nothing to do about the OW because he really wasn't attracted to her. And that was something she couldn't except. It had to do with him and his pain, not loving himself enough to realize what he had in front of him. Yesterday I heard someone on Facebook talking about people that hurt us and letting it go and how the pain brings us to a better place. My husband was self destructive at this time and it took him all of this time to finally talk about what he was going through in his head for many many years. I always thought that he was happy and I had no idea that he ever felt this way. He talked about how men, especially men who work in corrections cannot express any type of emotions and he just let it fester in him until it came out the way it did. He talked about not ever wanting to lose his family because he loved us more anything in the world. He was just lost and I can understand that now because that's the way I felt for the last almost 3 years. This article was like a light bulb going off in my head just like it was yesterday hearing it expressed in a different way even though my husband had been telling me this all along. I fought hard to change myself, I didn't want to be the person I was before all of this happened even thought I was a great wife to him and always tried to be the best person I could to us, him and everyone. I've struggled in finding myself in this new city we now live in and this part of our lives that I never thought I would be dealing with. After working hard on myself these last few years and going down these different avenues of fixing me because I thought it was me that was broken I stopped and took a break from it. I did a lot of soul searching and started being even more grateful for everything that came into my life whether good or bad. I think I finally found what I was looking for in me and that simple thing was acceptance and peace. I realized how I can't control the actions of others but, I can control how I react to the bullshit that is thrown at me and that includes the job I left a few months ago. I don't feel stuck in that in between anymore and now I look forward to following my own dreams, ambitions and at 55 I feel ready to conquer the world again. Sounds silly maybe but, I am finally happy again.
ReplyDeleteThis is all so true. It was hard to hear at first. I was the first one to blame myself. After all I believed all the negativity my husband fed me over the many affair years. He was also really good and telling me I was an amazing mother and such a hard worker etc. It was not all negative but it was all negative when I asked him to give any bit of himself during those years. It could be can you watch the kids, can you shovel snow, can you change a light bulb, and especially why are you going out again or staying out late with friends. That was when he would turn on me. It was always a flaw in me. So over time it wore me down.
ReplyDeleteOn dday it all changed. It was the biggest ah ha moment I can imagine. And I will remember laying in bed telling my husband that I had crafted a detailed plan including letters of my pans to commit suicide since I believed all he has been telling me. And even though I hated that he had these affairs I realized it was him and his gaslighting me and trying to push back his guilt and shame. In that moment I thanked him for being honest and telling me what happened since it was like a huge weight off my shoulders. I realized it has crippled me for years. And in that moment I refused to take any responsibility for the affairs and betrayal. There is no justifiable reason for his actions. And that has cemented in me more and more over the past three years. And in turn what I see is the saddest thing is how I can now see my husband let himself down the most. Yes he betrayed me but he did this to himself. And I do not think my husband was unhappy or had a bad child hood. I think he was immature in the moment. However he was at his height of success, earning more money than ever before, happy supportive wife and kids etc... And the only thing he can connect this to was the feeling of having to grow up, having access to too much money. And he did this on a whim and with one horrible decision he became a miserable and depressed person for over ten years. And I can tell it still haunts him today. To not be able to look at yourself in the mirror ever and to live with those lies is so sad to me.
I still have down feelings or more uneasiness about him and us at times which I think is normal. But overall I go about my life with more confidence in me and knowing that I cannot control him. I can lay it all on the line and tell him what I expect and need. It is up to him how he wants to live his life. And so far he is showing me the new person he has become. It is obvious by how he goes about each day. At first hearing Esther Perel's words was hard but in the end they are very true for us.
Elle
ReplyDeleteThat sentence, hurt people hurt people, gave me insight into why the ow could continue with her harassment of me and my h for over a year. I was able to let go of some of the anger that I had for both of them. Thanks for the reminder! It’s still very relevant for me!
It's easy to forget, isn't it? I've spent a lot of time in my life in the "but why would he/she do that?" stage. I think everyone operates from the same moral code that I do. And they don't. Hurt people hurt people. It's what they know.
DeleteWhat it comes down for me because I knew from the beginning it was definitely NOT about me. I accepted none of the crap he spewed as to the why's i.e. I played Words with Friends at night... huh what??? Yeah that statement pretty much set the course for me to know nothing about his affair was about me or my relationship with him.
ReplyDeleteAs to his motives, that too was not about me. Of course he wasn't thinking about me, how could he have? He was only thinking about himself and very narcissistically I might add. Is he a narcissist? No but those in affairs, triangulation and betrayal act with very narcissistic traits. His internal motivation as to whether or not he set out to hurt me with his affair is not important. No one purposefully sets out to hurt someone else. The fact that they do not realize, understand or accept the fact that what they are doing is INDEED hurting someone else because you are acting out in a way that in some corner of your sick little undeveloped ego or lack of moral compass is what the betrayed needs to understand.
If you understand this. is. who. you. are. dealing. with. it makes going forward, maybe not easier, but at least you are no longer ignorant of the rules of the game.
Do we accept the fact that Tonya Harding whacked Nancy Kerrigans knee during competition because after all she was abused as a child, had worked hard to achieve greatness her whole life, and that her motivation was NOT to "hurt" Nancy but to forward her achievements? Indeed NO, her motivations for what she did means nothing. Nancy was just the collateral damage to her narcissistic needs. Fact is she did hurt Nancy Kerrigan both physically and emotionally. Not only Nancy but many other people.
I take no solace in knowing that I was never even a thought in his mind when he was cheating. That's just a sign of his poor character and lack of moral compass. Has he come to see the light now? I hope so. He seems to have. All I know is he is very capable of doing this and that speaks volumes to me. It's not what people say, it's what they do that counts. If the words don't match the actions you have NOTHING to go on. It's like if you have peanut butter but no jelly you are NOT going to get a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich!
Sorry to be the party pooper here and this is ONLY my opinion and MY personal experience. And I also have to tell you is my marriage better? Yes. Am I a better, smarter person now than before infidelity, definitively Yes! Would this kind of betrayal happen to me again, maybe but certainly not with the same person. Many people betray, not just husbands. And they betray because we WANT to believe those we love and trust.
Take no comfort in the fact that they acted out with no thought to you. But take it as an education that people can and will act out with absolutely no regard for anyone else. We are just NOT that important in their mind. But make sure YOU and your well being are important to YOU.
I hear you, loud and clear, TryingHard.
DeleteI would never have described myself as naive before Sept. 2016. I truly belived our marriage was special, that I was special (because he certainly was to me). Now, I know better.
"And they betray because we WANT to belive those we love and trust." It took many months for me to come to grasps with that. I too, take no comfort in my H's no thought of me; I was not important to him. It was all about HIM. I think it still is.
You're right; I need some time for it to be all about me - my mental, emotional, and physical health. My relationship with my children. My choices for me.
This is exactly why I could not tolerate Esther Perel in the beginning. Elle I am SO glad you could kind of decipher it for newcomers. Because honestly I could not have given a rats ass if my H found a "new self" or a "new version" of himself. All thoughts like that made me sick. Like Trying Hard, I too KNEW somehow this was not about me and that he didnt think about me or hurting me and it gave me NO solace. None. But it is a reminder that this is NEVER EVER about us--no matter what some Husbands might throw at you--it was his terrible choice. He can learn from it or not.
ReplyDeleteI'm with Steam. Esther Perel's views would mean more to me if she talked about her own experiences of living through betrayal although I have no idea if she experienced it. I've found those who have lived through a terrible experience often provide more comfort to me than those who speak philosophically. In any event, I, like Steam, thank you for this explanation of her writings because all I felt was pain inside me and had no ability to look at any explanation/reason/cause etc from from spouse. It took me a long time to accept that my husband's acting out had nothing to do with me. I like your Venn diagram visual. I'm with TryingHard. I now know that I gave up my autonomy and life for my husband and family because that is how I was taught way back in the 50's and 60's. No more. FTS as Olivemee is fond of saying. I know what my husband is capable of even if he says he will never be that guy again. In June we hit the 3 year D-day. I'm in a much better place but knowing I married a really, really, really broken and screwed up man sometimes does help me look at the child inside him and feel compassion and love but it also makes me realize that all of those experiences and feelings and triggers are still inside him waiting for a weak moment. He knows that too and says he is fully aware of everything all the time. He is devoted and loving and wonderful and has been taking good care of me as I battle influenza. He proves himself to me daily. That is good.
ReplyDeleteI must agree with those that say that it is in no way a comfort that the affair was nothing to do with me. To have my husband cause such pain and in so many ways create a detrimental atmosphere for the family to grow in, then to do detrimental things again and yet again, having had insight into the hurt that has already been caused does call to mind questions of character and his ability to stay on track in future moments of weakness. Do they need to develop a moral code to counterpoint their weak patterns? Does it need to be seared on their brains somehow that they have responsibilities not to hurt their spouse and family? Are we saying that nothing can stop them bar getting in tune with their maladjusted patterns and working consistently with professional help to change them. These emotional affairs have brought into focus my husbands long term deception on many matters, lack of authenticity, self-serving compulsions, distancing, a whole host of character weaknesses. He says they are not who he is but he “never wanted to hurt us” and did, then did again. As our twenty year wedding anniversary arrives I can’t say that this is the marriage I wanted or that I wanted to be married to someone who acted this way. Yet there is a lot of good in him and good stuff between us but it’s still all about him and his counselling and what he can be. Like us all I’m still recovering from the severe. damage that was done.
ReplyDeleteFOH,
DeleteI too, am coming up on my 20th wedding anniversary. D day was about 18 mos ago. What you mention about your husband's "long term deception" makes me want to scream, as I may know what you're describing. Character flaws? Yes, in abundance. Character positives? Yes, a few. Good stuff between us? Yes, I think so. My H doesn't remember as many good times/things as I do, though.
As more time goes by, I find it more difficult to see the good in my h (but that's another post). I'm trying to hang in there.
Thanks for your words - they made a lot of sense to me.
Fragments-- You put my thoughts so much more eloquently than I. Very very good.
ReplyDeleteIn trying to comprehend his intentions, good or bad, I need to put the information into some kind of quantitative order to make sense to ME. Here goes.
*My husband had a 4 year affair where he saw her every single day at work for at least 8 hours a day. That's 8,160 work hours together!
*Hundreds of phone calls. Translated into days of talking on the phone when not together.
*Thousands of $. Ostensibly as a loan. It wasn't, because he was too stupid to secure the "loans" with a contract.
*He went to her house about twice a week where there was some sort of sex. No, I never asked as I didn't want all those gory details. That translates into committing some sort of sex act a whopping 420 times!!! give or take plus or minus!!!
Numbers don't lie. Am I really to believe that I didn't enter his thought one single time?? Oh hell yes I did. He.Didn't.Care. It is mathematically impossible that I never entered his thoughts during these times unless he had some kind of stroke or is a complete sociopath! Not caring is much easier for me to wrap my head around then my non-existence or that what he was doing wasn't or wouldn't hurt me. Of course he knew it would hurt me. Of course he thought of me. I just didn't matter.
I do however believe in one's ability to compartmentalize their lives. This must take a herculean effort of mental gymnastics. I don't know how he managed that. I don't know how or why he choose to do that to HIMSELF. Why would he choose to work so hard to keep so much of HIS life a secret and not just from me but from EVERYONE? His friends, his employees, his family?? If this relationship and OW were so special and soulmate how did he keep himself from shouting it from the rooftops?? No, I do not accept that I did ANYTHING to make him betray me. He not only betrayed me, he betrayed many people. That is all on him.
Again, this is my opinion and my experience and my observations on the subject. I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone with what I have said here. If I did please accept my sincerest apologies.
Tryinghard - exactly!
DeleteSo maybe he didn’t consider my feelings when he cheated but you were sneaking around ... you were texting in the bed next to me. You took off work early. You were calling her every single morning and every single night. Surely he had to worry about getting busted? So wouldn’t I have been a thought somewhere in there?
I have to say I thought a lot about him during my affair. I felt guilty. I worried about him seeing something I wouldn’t want him to. Then I thought about him for weeks before I called things off and for weeks afterwards because I really wanted things to work with him.
Your comment about compartmentalisation is very true. Men are better at this than women generally. I have experienced it and it is quite scary. But the longer things go on, I discovered the more the compartments start to leak.
DeleteExample:
The OW mentions a tv programme or a something else that is outside the norm of his life but general knowledge. He is then at a dinner party with friends and his wife and the general knowledge question pops up, or the tv programme and he cannot help give a view and the wife then looks at him and asks where that came from etc.
Again just an example.
...
DeleteAh, but there's more! This morning, he shares on our family SnapChat that he is off work today. Does he have any time scheduled with me to talk about working on our marriage? Nope. He does have time for: laundry, yoga, shopping for our daughter's bday present (which is bullshit b/c he knows I already have it), taking a hike, and calling his cousin. I cannot make up this stuff! He actually sent that to do list to me in a text. My response? Since he has time off from work, wouldn't today be a good day for us to talk, if even for 30 mins? His response? "I know you don't get it, Jo, but I need a day to just unplug. Like I said the other day, I will look for time for us to talk. I will look for time for us to hang out. In the past month I have had only one day off work, and that has been it."
Guess who schedules his working hours? HE does. HE chooses to work like crazy. It's called AVOIDANCE. How difficult is it to "look for time" in his schedule? Seriously? Does he really believe that bullshit?
I told him he was being downright cruel. It is not fair - hell, it simply lacks common decency - for him to say he wants to have this sacred time with me to talk (and he won't tell me what he wants to talk about, becuase, well - that's what the meeting is for), let almost an entire week go by, and not even pick a day! Just pick a fucking day/night! EXCUSES and AVOIDANCE. Not only did I tell him he was being cruel, I told him he was losing me. No response from him. Nothing but silence.
What the hell, ladies? What the fucking hell? I told him I'm tired of being rejected. I'm tired of being taken for granted. I'm tired of waiting for him to get his shit together.
BUT, since I don't know how to give up, I also told him that if he didn't schedule this meeting (ugh... "meeting") in the next few days, he might as well tell me he does not care about me or our marriage.
Sadly, I think he already has. Coward.
Hello Trying Hard, YES we have to try to have it make sense to us and now after being burned again (inappropriate friendships and more lies four years after original D0day and after so many declarations of him wanting to do the right thing) I have to figure out what the hell he thinks he is doing, knowing the level of hurt he's already caused and then allowing himself to be as he is saying 'cruel and selfish.' You are right in the moments they did those things, they came first and they did not care what they were doing to us. When you spell out how many actions your husband committed that would hurt you (whether he had you in mind at the time) my blood runs cold. I am really struggling with how much we try to understand their motives and look for mitigating circumstances and hope for the best outcome or a change of heart in the future, try not to label them etc etc. So much understanding. When a burglar comes into our home and takes our stuff they don't care. Sometimes they justify it by thinking we are better off and the insurance will pay us anyway, maybe they say we are posh snobs or whatever whatever. But mostly they just want the cash or the goods and they don't think about the victim. When you say it like that, it;s so similar except we have to live with the perpetrators afterwards. Then are they grateful for the chance and understanding? No, they rob our dearest possessions (sanity, peace of mind, solidarity, loyalty, love) off us all over again. Then they half-heartedly try to reconcile or do the right thing. Infuriating. Your points about comparmentalising are just right but when, oh when do they feel they should become responsible and stop doing new things to hurt?
DeleteTrying Hard, I am sure it can be different for different cases. But my husband told me that when he left the house he completely blocked out/forgot he was married or had kids. He made the decision of course but he said we never entered his mind no matter how long he was gone whether at work, with friends, gone out of town, doing anything. When we were out of sight we were out of his mind. He really was skilled at compartimentalizing. I think it is a strength and has helped in in his work in mental health.
DeleteWe have had a lot of discussions about this. He has been open about not thinking about us at all. He said before he ever cheated he knew it was wrong. He has all the training, education and real life mental health experience to know the consequences but he did it anyways. He said once he did it that it was a slippery slope. He knew to keep it sporadic. The the second one tracked him for three years and he finally gave in to her. He swears he never spoke of me and there was no discussion of it becoming anything more or meaning anything more. He said he never wanted to leave me. He says all it was for him was an escape from his day to day life responsibilities with work and family. And he told himself whatever he had to about me or his life in order to get through his days. So I was the nag, complainer, the problem. The kids were work. Work was work and stressful. The funny thing was he was more successful than ever. He says he let the money go to his head and did not know how to handle success.
He has taken 100% responsibility since through the 10 years of affairs I pushed for us to work on our marriage and to be closer. It was always odd since we would have good times and closeness and then distance. Now I know it was because the affairs were sporadic. It makes so much sense now. Also I thought is he playing me but he broke up with both ow 15 months before dday on his own. My therapist believes it all 100% and says that no one could continue with and move forward with his level of progress if they were lying for this long since dday.
In the end I find it most sad that he let himself down first and foremost. I too will not take any responsibility for what he did. He knows that and it weighs on him. He knows he took our marriage to the brink and also almost broke me. He wants most for me to be happy and I am not sure I will ever be truly happy or even what happy is anymore. I feel like happy was taken from me. I can find the good in things but happy I am just not sure of beyond the time spent with my kids. That is when I feel true happiness.
Hi Hopeful-YOu are right and my comment was from my own POV. But I can also see that your h could easily compartmentalize his affairs given they were sporadic and long over by the time DDay came around. Yep, men do "compartmentalize" easier/better than women do. That is is women do it at all? Is it really a male thing? Seems odd to me.
DeleteI've never been a chaser of happiness. I've always tried to be satisfied and grateful. Maybe I'm just weird but here's a great article in Psychology Today with regards to happiness. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/smashing-the-brainblocks/201802/feeling-matters-more-happiness?
And I agree I am probably most happy when I am with my grandson. He's is just the best :)
An amazing post! I do like the separation and non anger towards the OW and the inner belief a wife is not to blame. There should be no comparison generally between the OW and the wife, as there are other ways the partner can deal with problems with his wife or marriage than have an affair.
ReplyDeleteI believe that a man cheats a large percentage of the time because of the insecurities or a broken part inside him.
The wife who was devoted and trim has now had a child and is pregnant and then is devoted to the child, he seeks an affair because of his insecurities - just one example but apparently a huge statistic.
It’s a lovely post and I have been on both sides of the coin and appreciate it.
"..So often, the most intoxicating 'other' that people discover in an affair is not a new partner; it’s a new self."
ReplyDeleteI do not like this "new self" my husband has allegedly found. As trite as it may sound, he's a stranger to me most days. The longer we are separated, the stranger he becomes.
Ladies, am I losing my mind? My H has had two months to "work on himself" (his words). It took him the first month before he made an appointment with a counselor. Yes, I'm glad that he did, and perhaps that should be the point (not how long it took). Three sessions later, I see no change. He avoids talking about anything serious with me, but he's always up for a light hearted text or silly SnapChat.
We have seen each other three times, kind of like a date situation, where we just try to enjoy one another. They have been nice, except the ending of this most recent one last Sunday. He said he would like to schedule a time for us to get together and talk about our marriage, just like we've scheduled time to just "be us." I agreed - it would be a good idea, especially since he tells me nothing and bristles whenever I try to initiate a coversation about the state of our separation or marriage.
Guess what? By Wednesday, he still hadn't scheduled our meeting (that's what he calls it). It's Saturday, almost a week out, and he still hasn't scheduled our meeting. When I spoke w/him this morning, he states he wants to find an uninterrupted time - a day and time where he can keep our appointment without getting stuck at work and worrying about whether or not he'll be able to keep the appointment or arrive on time. WTF? Guess what, ladies? He hasn't been able to schedule this important time with me because he's so busy at work, yet, he's been able to schedule time for the following: dinner with his parents, working out at the gym, falling asleep watching a movie (twice), going out with his friend, yoga, and dinner and a movie with our son. I can't complain about the last item, but still...
Jo,
DeleteI have been there
First
Breathe
And now forget him and waiting for his decision.
Think about you and your needs and wants and limits and no goes and your decision!
My ex moved out, asked for a month of space and time to think, that month he had family visiting from overseas etc
Boys trip with his brother!
I waited that month and more!
Finally we met again with our councillor, I was waiting for the decision, were we divorcing or working through this?
And of course he had made no decision and I felt bereft, angry, upset, hurt & disappointed! As hadn’t I played by the rules and waited! I froze my life, suspended in hope waiting for the decision that I wished was let’s try again. But there was no decision
So more time passed, I gave him time and then we started contact, stupidly sexual contact and I thought we can get through this, we are getting through this!
And after 2 weeks of random texts and a few sexual contacts we met for breakfast on a Saturday, great breakfast. We said goodbye after as I had plans as did he and said Sunday will be our day! I never heard from him again until almost a month later I got a weak text on xmas day saying he was sorry and couldn’t cope when we met and happy xmas! Mid Jan I finally forced him to say the words I think he knew in the September when he first left that he wanted a divorce!
Men avoid hurting us and avoid telling the truth, they don’t realise their weaknesss makes our pain worse as we live in hope!
They should rip the bandage like a man rather than avoid the explosion or hurt they will cause!
So looking back I wish I had stopped worrying about his decision and had looked at me and made my own decision of what I wanted or needed!
I hope this helps
I’m here if you need!
Hello Jo, i'm glad you got something out of my post above. I could scream for you when I hear about your husband's procrastination. I know my husband was the same, he just didn't get it, didn't want to face into it, was defensive when we did have conversations and after the big emotional affair in 2013 discovered in 2014, second D-day in sept of that year when he went back talking to his dear OW he then continues to lie to me and last year arranged lunches and one to ones with women he fancied or who fancied him because he needed 'friendship'. Still he wants me not to see him as a cruel man but one who loves his family and was just selfish at those times. He was on the couch for weeks this time and we've done IC and MC. I had to take a stand and say he had to face into his actions and I could not suffer any more. At the moment from the information you have given it does seem like your husband is really telling you what you mean to him or has not faced into the reality of what he has done and its dire effects on you. I have found that unless they really get scared they are going to lose you they deal with the issue in a half-hearted manner. My husband now admits that's what he did and that it caused further deception and inappropriate actions. Think about a strong boundary, couch, emotional seperation, in-house seperation or some kind of marker or ultimatum that you are thinking of already to try to make him see sense. Good luck. Will look out to see how you are getting on x
DeleteJo, I can understand your frustration. My husband and I never separated so it was a little different for us. We did the same focusing on our time as a couple was our major priority. I think it helped us so that all of our time together was not spent on affair talk. However at some point and at least for me it was a lot of repetition we had to talk and work through the affairs and his betrayal behavior. Then we moved on to working on the marriage/communication etc.
DeleteFor us we were good at spending time together. But I did lay down the ultimatum and said we had to set one time a week where we talk. I promised to not get overly emotional if he would listen and not be defensive. I had recognized early on that was our pattern. And our talks were not productive due to that. I wrote in a journal every day. The I would look through that and pull on or two ideas. It allowed me to be more concise and see patterns or what was bothering me every day. Otherwise without this I would go off on tangents. The other thing my husband said to me was he felt like he could not win. anything he said sounded bad because it was and also he worried I would use his words against him in future conversations. In a way I felt like too bad that is what you get but also I was glad he said it.
In the end I demanded these meetings. We chose a time when the kids were not around. I said if we were going to have any chance we had to have these meetings. They had to be our biggest priority if we were to have any chance at saving our marriage and family.
In the end my therapist really supported me and gave me that extra push to demand these meetings. My therapist said my husband had it his way basically our entire relationship and I gave him all the freedom and trust in the world. He threw that away. So now it is about what I needed first of all to understand, then start to heal then repair the marriage. And he had to prove himself the entire way. I also did tell my husband that my standards were higher than ever and through our recovery they continued to elevate. That was the way it was.
Do you see a therapist on your own? That helped me a lot. I would not say we did official role playing but talking it through during my sessions helped me to stand firm. And in the end my therapist told me to figure out what I wanted and then ask for and demand it. I deserved that and you do too!
Jo, I understand why your concerned about him not making this meeting a priority, it goes back to him not putting you and the marriage first. Pleasing other people or himself first, that’s very frustrating and my h did the very same thing in our marriage. I know you don’t want to remind him of the meeting as that’s his stuff to sort out but I’d be inclined to drop it in conversation, I imagine your eager to hear what he has to say about the marriage. On the plus side he has found a counsellor 3 sessions will just have started the ball rolling so don’t expect any meaningful conversations just yet, give him time. The date nights are also a nice idea, sounds like he is making some changes and I hope he continues to do so but jo if you feel at anytime he’s not sticking to what he said or your feeling disheartened please tell him, men are very odd when it comes to reading us women basically they can’t read our minds, unlike us women who know what they are going to before they do it . I hope things continue to improve jo, please let us know how the meeting goes..
ReplyDeletebig hugs xxx
FOH-these words of yours!!!! “i have found that unless they really get scared they are going to lose you they deal with the issue in a half-hearted manner”.
ReplyDeleteTHIS is what i found true in my H.
D-day 1 he was horrified for three days. Because that’s what it took for me to calm down. By 10 days out we were in therapy and i stated that i wanted to stay with him and work it out. He breathed a big sigh of relief and for a year he looked like he was doing most all of the right things. But he wasn’t. we both felt safe despite the shakey ground only he knew about- he gradually thought if he placated me and focused on my unbearable pain instead of his own i would not notice him Slipping away to feed his pain and addiction and ignore his shame.
D-DAY number 2 was a whole new ballgame. When i kicked him out he was terrified for 3 months which got him Into a much better place (after going thru hell- homeless- exposed- etc). I think That three months of living alone on the shakey ground he undermined himself was an enormous wake up call. I don’t think all men are like this but i think i lot are. Mine was.
Oh my goodness Steam yes! The way you’ve described it first time round. “He was horrified for three days”, focussed on placating your pain and didn’t deal with himself. This is Exactly what happened. Even though he did go for counselling originally, he rushed in and out of it in a panic. We then had a D-Day 2 and some MC followed but there were still huge life pressures and as you said, he never dealt with his own stuff and went on feeding his addictions in a superficial way that was never going to get to the root of things. After this third shock I was ready to go. Now he has a great counsellor and is engaged with dealing with his hang ups. He still has a way to go with dodging shame and knowing how to repair but it’s the most authentic effort so far. After so many repeated incidents I’m still wary but I hope he is committed to engaging with that wariness as well. I think you are right, some men need a massive wake up call, a few figure it out quickly and others never face into what they have done and become.
ReplyDelete