Wednesday, June 24, 2015

Donating to BWC: Push my button!

You've likely noticed that, a few months ago, I added a Donate button on this site. It was not a decision I made lightly and it came from my realization that this site was growing (and growing) and that I was spending considerable time on it at the expense of my "real" work. I'm a writer and the only way writers get paid is when they're producing work.
So...I talked it over with Steam (who, incidentally, is a marketing genius) and considered selling mugs ("My heartbreak, my rules!" courtesy of Steam's pithy wisdom). I considered t-shirts and tchotchkes. But, frankly, I'm not sure how many of us want to wear our broken hearts literally on our sleeves. Besides, I'm not so interested in becoming a retailer.
What I want to do, what I really love to do, is to continue to grow this space that has become such a haven for those of us who've experienced betrayal and to allow myself the time to read each and every post (which I do – I filter everything or else you'd all be contacting spell casters who promise to return your repentant husbands to you, for a fee, of course). I take time to reflect on what's being asked or described, sometimes sleeping on it. And then I often write a considered response. There are many times that you all step in and offer up such compassion and wisdom that I'm redundant, which is lovely. And many of you simply need a space to tell your story, or to rant, and a reminder that you're among many many friends.
All this is to say that I am incredibly grateful to those of you who have trusted me with your stories and with your donations to the site. The donations go through PayPal – it's Web standard and trust-worthy way to send money. I promise to never reveal the names of those who have donated. In many cases if it comes through a company name, I don't even see the "real" name.
I don't want anybody to feel that they need to pay their way onto this site. Every single one of you contributes to this site in many different ways. You are all welcome (except the spell casters and the haters). And please don't ever compromise yourself financially to donate. My lights will stay on.
But to those who've made a donation, please know how much I appreciate it. I've toyed with the idea of sending a thank-you to each of you but am unsure how to do it without violating both your and my privacy. While I figure it out, please accept my bloggy thanks.
And stay tuned. I am working on an e-book that will be for sale via this site. And considering a journal that will offer up some BWC wisdom, while providing plenty of space for you to write your way to healing.
I've wondered if I'll outgrow this site. I'm long past my own D-Day. But the support I get from the "club", and the reminders that we continue to grow and learn from what happened, and that we can apply the lessons we learn through this to so many other aspects of our lives, keeps me coming back. And you, dear BWC members. Especially you.


  1. Elle,

    You made me touched by your words and dedication to all of us...(together on this profound journey). You too Steam! I carry you in both in my hearts....always.
    And geez everyone on this amazing website you're all life savers in my book as you threw me a life - line....

    Many, many, endless, blessings.

  2. As I have mentioned to you from the start Elle If you did not literally save my life you most literally saved my sanity.
    No one would ever think of me as a marketing genius but you, but thank you. Being creative via a phone is not near my finest marketing moments. You, this space, these compadres in pain. Priceless

  3. Elle, I'm so pleased you have raised this as I had no idea about the donations. The only problem I have Elle is that you are absolutely priceless, I couldn't put a price on what you have done to me and my family. Words can't express my gratitude whenever I come across a btw I introduce you snd this amazing website your like a friend, counsellor rolled into one. I really do blow your trumpet : ) .
    The very least I can do in return is offer a donation. Thankyou Elle I really do love you!!! I hope this website remains for many years to come. Xxxxxc

  4. Elle please tell me step by step how I can donate, could I send a cheque?? Or do you have a bank account I can out the money in I'm in the uk . I don't have PayPal xx

    1. Sam,

      There is a little box up on the right top of the main entry and you click it and follow the prompts. Need a credit card and I believe it will turn your card into a paypal exchange.

      Hope that helps

    2. Yes, Sam A, Val is right. You click on the "Donate" button at the top right-hand corner and follow the prompts. I've used PayPal for years to purchase things online and never had a problem. It's widely used -- a sort of Web standard for online purchases.
      Thank-you for your kind words!

    3. Sorry ladies I'm still having problems donating, I don't seem to have a donate button on my screen in right hand corner???

      Yours confused

    4. I'm confused too. Are you on a mobile site (ie. on your phone?)? The full site has a right-hand column that has "Follow by e-mail" link, then "Support Us" with the Donate button, then Why A Betrayed Wives Club, etc. Does your page look like that?

    5. Hi Elle, yes I'm on my mobile I will log into the computer and see if that works.
      Thanks : )

    6. Yaaay did it Elle, my first donation to you and it feels good. Thankyou for letting me know about it I never use the computer website always go on from my mobile so didn't have a clue. Please have a bottle of champers on me :) so pleased I can contribute your so worth it xxxx

  5. Elle,

    When I was at my lowest point, I got on the internet and began researching infidelity. I read so many things—good, bad and everything in between. I don't know how I found this blog, but when I did, I knew right away it was different.

    For me, it really wasn't about finding a site which promoted saving my marriage, as I was definitely leaning toward divorce. Rather, it was about finding a site that spoke to me in what I knew full well was good, common sense. It was finding a site that spoke the truth, no matter what that may sound like. Because even as I was mired in depression and negativity, I somehow knew I needed to fill myself with something strong and hopeful. That is what I found here—you offered a positive message in the midst of what felt like the end of my life.

    Your blog has allowed me to pour myself into hours of reading, writing and healing. It offers such a comprehensive insight into infidelity and how the betrayed experience it. I truly don't think I could have found this much accurate information anywhere else. As a result, I have learned so much about myself, my marriage and how to navigate my toughest life struggles.

    I have often wondered how you find the time to read and respond to every single entry. I know firsthand how blogging can sometimes be overwhelming. But you do it with such grace and compassion. It's easy to see that each response is carefully thought through and and always insightful, offered in such a way to show respect and love to the betrayed. I offer you my deepest thanks for helping me to find my dignity once again after this ordeal.

    As for the addition of your donation button, I wholeheartedly support your choice. I am only too happy to contribute. It makes me feel as though I am supporting my sisters in some small way. I’m sure you will find many people feel the same.

    Elle, I see a best selling book in your future if you were to take the contents of this blog and compile the information into a comprehensive guide for survivors of infidelity. This would be so helpful to everyone out there, including therapists, not only in understanding the true nature of what the betrayed suffers, but also in removing the stigma and misconceptions surrounding it. I can’t think of anything more important. I know this is not what you set out to do with your blog, but it certainly would be helpful to have this information at the fingertips of anyone interested in learning.

    Thank you for all you have given of yourself in this blog. It couldn’t have been easy for you to open your own story to the world. You took a chance and continue to take chances in doing so. I, for one, am grateful for your sacrifices.


  6. I've been reading this blog weekly since dDay in March and it's been like a port in a storm. I can't donate right now, but trust me once the financial dust has settled I will be.

    The way I see it, I pay a considerable amount for each counselling session and I've had more support here than at any counselling here is where my cash should go!

    I'm coming here more frequently, as my husband is so keen to move past the horrible recent events...and I don't always want to talk to him about it.

    His affair lasted six weeks in total, he got caught Three times in that six weeks by me, and it wasn't until I kicked him out and we told the kids we were splitting that he finally seemed to wake up.

    Now he is back and we are trying, but sometimes it feels hollow. And it is at these times that BWC has come to my rescue. So Thankyou Elle and Thankyou all the lovely ladies who make a difference.


  7. Fragments of HopeJune 25, 2015 at 2:28 AM

    I second everything that Merilee has said above, this site has a completely different quality to any of the others I've been on and so much of that is do to with the specific care in answering each post. It can't be easy and as a fellow writer I'm very happy to donate something in appreciation of your work. I agree, a book based on the common sense and compassion of this site would be terrific. Best wishes.

  8. Merilee,

    I agree with everything you so beautifully said and we'll all benefit by Elle's wisdom in a book! Also have to say Merilee that my gut always responds to your writing and I get the thought repeatedly..."Wow, she'd be an amazing therapist herself." God knows we need more of us betrayed on the other side helping our tribe out........and you use wonderful parables and images and that letter to therapists! wow.....just saying....


  9. THANK-YOU!!!! I'm incredibly moved by all your words.
    I don't know what makes this site different from others (though I confess I don't really know what else is out there) but whatever it is that's on offer here, I'm glad it's helping. I suspect it's the simple matter of assuring all of us that we are not alone in our pain. That there is a huge tribe of betrayed wives out there that are offering up virtual hugs and compassion and support. We are a force to be reckoned with.

    1. What makes this site different, is the sense of true camaraderie and support found here. There is no judgement for the choices we make along our journey....just kindness, and, as needed, gentle advice.

      When I first learned of my husband's betrayal, I found the SI forum and foolishly looked there for support. Within a couple of responses, I felt worse than I had before I'd posted! Between being told that my husband could never be trusted again, that nothing about our situation mattered except his betrayal, and that he was probably still lying about everything, I felt shell-shocked rather than supported. I deleted my post and never went back.

      Weeks later, I finally conjured up the nerve to post my story here and I felt nothing but true understanding and genuine support. What a port in the storm I have found here!

      I will be donating asap.

    2. Dana,
      I'm so glad you felt welcome here. I think it's crucial, when our heads are spinning, to be able to share our story without anyone telling us what we should or shouldn't be doing about it (I make an exception in the case of abuse -- emotional or physical. Especially when there are children witnessing it). We need time to get our bearings. I know in the early days post D-Day, I could barely function. It was NOT the time for me to be making big decisions about anything. I needed someone to tell me I was going to be okay.

  10. Hi Ladies,

    I've recently come across this site and it's refreshing to see positivity and support. I've searched google high and low reading numerous articles trying to find the golden answer to make this pain go away.
    About 2-1/2 months ago two of my close girlfriends wanted to get together with me and I knew something was up. By the end of the night before I was about to leave and head home to my husband, they stopped me and said they needed to show me something. They first asked me if the name of this girl was familiar to me and I said yes of course but at the same time my stomach sunk so low because she was a girl I knew of that worked with my husband. My husband had always told me she was a friend which was partially true at the beginning but when my friends showed me this girls Facebook page, there were numerous photos of her and my husband together. I suspected for a long time that something was up with him because I would find hair on his clothes that was surely not mine. I would approach him about it but he would say it could of came from anywhere... He works in a prison and keeps a very low profile on his personal life. No one has much knowledge of me or knows he's married. He did this for my own protection but it would always bother me especially when we moved closer to his work and he started hanging around work people and I was not included. Anyways... I went home that night and was very calm when I walked in the door. I gave him my phone and told him to look at the photos that I had taken that evening with my girlfriends. The photos were a few randoms that I took with my phone of my girlfriends laptop screen. He looked at them without a word and I told him that I may be naive when it comes to him but I'm not stupid. I then told him he had 10 minutes to explain himself. Without hesitation he said that what I assumed was true. He said that it had happened during the few rough years that we had together where he felt neglected and unappreciated and when there was lack of intimacy. He said she was just a friend but had slept together about 5 times over the course of 2-1/2 years but that he had ended it with her about about 7 months prior because our relationship started to get better. Now on the daily, I face this overwhelming pain. The second I wake up in the morning the A is their waiting next to my bed waiting to punch me in the stomach. I still ask myself if this is a bad dream... My husband and I are trying to work on things and he is remorseful but I cannot help the tears and the daily reminders to him that he ruined something so precious and I keep asking him why.... I think one thing that gets me so upset is that there is nothing I can do to change the past. What's done is done and now I have to live in the grief and pain. Is this going to last forever? Because if it is, I don't want to do it.
    When we spend time together it's good. We spent the whole day together yesterday and we had a great time laughing and lying out on the patio furniture till 2am talking. He's trying but is ashamed of himself and is hurting a lot and feels depressed. He says that seeing me upset destroys him. He said what he did was a mistake but how does one make a conscious choice and call it a mistake? I wish I had never know just so I wouldn't have to feel this pain and we could continue living our lives normally and think about a future with kids. And how do you walk away from someone you love more than anything and who you never thought you would have to live without??? Heartbreaking is an understatement.


    1. Lili,
      An understatement indeed. More like heart-shattered. Heart-stomped. Heart-annihilated.
      We've all been there, Lili. It's horrible. I wished I was dead rather than face that pain daily. Thing is it won't last forever. The day will come, like yesterday with your husband, when the clouds will part and the light will shine in. And those days will become more frequent. And you'll begin to realize that you weathered the worst of it.
      You may never understand how he could do what he did. And frankly his excuse -- that your marriage was going through a rough patch -- doesn't really cut it. I urge you to find a couples counsellor who can help you recognize how to handle life's (and marriage's) inevitable ups and downs. Life is long. There will be times when you disappoint each other. That can't be an excuse to betray the person you promised you never would. Your husband has the chance to learn from his horrible choice and to find ways to ensure he doesn't do it again. And you have the chance to watch him become a better man because of it, if he's willing to do the work. His shame serves no-one unless he uses it to gain skills to be a better husband and a better friend to you.
      In the meantime, your task is to take care of yourself, to nurture yourself as you heal. This takes time -- longer than most of us ever expected. Experts say it's three to five years before you'll feel well and truly past it. That doesn't mean you'll be miserable for at least three years. It just means that you won't feel it's completely behind you. Some heal faster than others. There are other factors, of course, that play a role.
      Hang in there, Lili. You can't change the past...but you and your husband can use this horrible experience to create a deeper, richer relationship that will help create a far better future.

    2. LiLi,
      As Elle said, more of those days will come. I also remember that feeling of having it hit me every morning and thinking it would never go away. It was like I would wake up every day and have a brief monent of normalcy before the weight of my reality would drop on me with full force. Everyone heals on their own schedule. I am also still fairly early In the process but in my experience, the pain has lessened.
      I spent a lot of time focused on the fact that my marriage would never be the same, that this had left a mark on it that would never be erased. And while that is true, I'm finding that in recovery, my husband and I are rebuilding a marriage that has much more honesty and openness. It's not always pretty because we'e dealing with the issues that allowed him to betray our wedding vows and my own issues that I let go unaddressed for years. Not excusing his behavior at all, but recognizing that our communication, or lack thereof, over the years stems from things both of us brought into the marriage. We are now connecting in a way that we haven't in a very long time, if ever.
      As you've probably already seen, you'll find people here who understand what you're going through. I know the support in the posts and comments has been so reassuring for me. This site, in conjunction with marriage counseling, has helped me in ways I never expected.

    3. LiLi, the path to healing is different for everyone regardless if you stay or go. Time, pain, anger, worthiness, shame, abandonment are all swirling around in your head at one time. Then comes the never ending "why" and "how could you?". This was the most traumatic event in my life. I say this over and over but be prepared for half truths from you husband for awhile. Like when I read sex 5 times over 2 years, I don't believe it. More truth will come out or the complete truth will come out a little at a time which is hard. So when he speaks there is always the rest of the story or more he isn't telling you. When things don't add up in your mind then there is a reason and you should ask hm about the discrepancies. It took me 14-16 months to decide to stay with my husband all my heart and soul. I put my husband through hell while I was trying to make up my mind. If my address was hell then he he was also going to live there with me at that address too. This is the most complex, tangled emotional messes for both us. I went to counseling 2 times a week, he went once a week and then couples every week. We just recently graduated to every other week. If you stay it will bring issues into focus about your past, family past and things about yourself you didn't know existed. You will focus on you and your circumstances. I kept readng this site and learned from others paths. You will only get the truth here and no bull shit. The a depth of the advice and what I learned from everyone was a big factor. They can see it from a different angle. Yes, they will call bullshit. I never ever thought I would say the days get better. Not perfect or some illusion but better and stronger. Actually my husband has turned into the man I always wanted. I'm learning how to be a wife. I had no role model. Sounds crazy after 35 years of marriage. You will get to a place of almost at peace. I'm 19 months out. I had more hang-ups in every area than jumper cables at a family reunion. I'm making it but there are rules he has to follow. Transparency, contacting each other when we aren't together, he has to go to therapy at least once a month, honestly no matter how much it hurts me, he has to open my car door, surprise me flowers and we check in with each other weekly at our "meeting time" Where we talk about what is bothering each of us. We spend 15 minutes every morning which is our time to focus on each other before the day starts. Should this have come naturally yes, but it didn't so now these are just becoming normal in our marriage but if doesn't do all of this - there is the door. We never did all this before. I never expected one thing from him. I was super woman. Not anymore. You will figure this out for you too. We are here for you and understand at a gut level. Nothing superficial here. You will get better and if you decide to stay, when YOU get better somehow the marriage follows too.

    4. Lynn,
      I think that many of those things we "should" be doing don't come naturally to most of us. It's no coincidence that bookstores and the Internet are filled with advice on how to keep a marriage strong. Most of us are flying blind.
      It sounds as if you two are really creating something good. And I know exactly what you mean about finding "peace". I feel the same way. It's not bliss. It's a recognition that we've weathered the storm...and are stronger because of it.

  11. Hi this is Sam. I haven't posted in a while. That's because things have been good. I am almost 2 years since d day & I can tell u that it really does get better. Much better. I still don't know many of the details but I don't care anymore-- not about where, when, how many times they had sex, etc.

    I recently told my husband I can't stop him from cheating if that's what he chooses to do. I sort of don't care, as long as he makes me & the kids his priority. He said we were always his priority. I said wrong phraseology; i meant as long as he give us his time & energy & stays involved (even he admits he wasn't before, because the OW demanded his time). Then he asked me well how am I doing so far & I said great. And that is the truth. I don't think he can be as involved as he is now AND be involved with another woman. I read that in one of my books too-- 1 of the relationships has to suffer.

    That is healing.

    1. Yay Sam. Good to hear your voice here. And so great to hear that you're doing well.

  12. Dandelion, your post tells me that your marriage is going to be a great success following the affair. No, we, the betrayed wives, are never the cause for our husband's affair(s) - we did however have a part in any of the problems in our marriages. And to recognize our own issues and contribution to the problems in our marriages ... and to work toward resolution of those issues and problem areas ... From our own perspective ... And of course our husbands working just as hard ... That is a recipe for success.
    Good for you! Thanks for sharing.

    1. Thank you, Melissa! I'll confess that acknowledging my own issues has been a struggle because I felt like I was in some ways excusing his behavior. And because I'm a bit of a control freak and admitting being wrong about anything does not come easy. ;-) But I've realized it truly is not just giving him a pass. It's necessary for me to be able to help rebuild a stronger marriage.

  13. Elle, of course I believe you are brilliant. And you certainly know that this site ... I cannot even find words. Honestly, there were times I don't know what I would've done? If you all weren't here. It's funny, I asked my sister to go in and read the site. She came back and said to me "Elle is amazing; she's a psychologist, right?"
    One other note. On a technical or logistical level, this site is just organized so beautifully.
    Every single time I go on here I go on my phone. (I will go onto the computer so that I can donate.). The mobile friendliness of this site is fantastic. And it does not operate like your typical blog, where it is extremely difficult to navigate due to way too many threads - which I found on the SI site.
    Elle, my deepest gratitude for your heartfelt dedication to each and everyone of us.

    1. Thanks Melissa. That's really good to know re. the usability of the site. I'm no techie. And definitely NOT a psychologist. Though with the amount of money I've paid psychologists over the years, I've probably bought myself a PhD's worth of info. ;)

  14. Ive been reading this blog and find comfort in the positive statments and finding others trying to make sense of it all and rebuild the marriage. My husband confessed a long term affair to me just this may it is still very raw, understatement. He has answered alot of my questions, stopped all contact to my knowledge and has been more involved with kids staying close to home. I feel a need to review phone records and his bank records ... he has told me much of the answer i want to know ... but hasnt yet or may not give me access to the account statements instead says we can merge money.... part of me says what does it matter it happened cant be undone while the other part of me wants to review piece together confirm where he was. What was spent what they did etc ... wondering if this is needed to really heal or am i just pain shopping? I know this is random and probably not very detailed or scrambled even ... im still struggling just staying afloat but functioning better then the first couple weeks! I understand his feelings and why the affair happened doesnt make it right i know or change it. We have been doing date nights, took a family vacation and hes helping alot more with kids. Still strained yes but trying to figure out how we move on and what we can do to even maybe be better ... one day. I feel changed maybe still numb even but deep down love him and my family. Werid i dont feel as angry as hurt and the lies really weigh on me. Btw the reasoning for not wanting to show me statements is he feels ashamed. Embarrassed and even feels used now to a point... his words guess that fog everyone in an affair talks about is lifting? Yep had it all right here at home just didnt see it. Just venting i guess ... after initially telling me he would clam up as i kept asking questions. Repeating even ... emotional rollercoaster for sure! And lately he has been talking again which i need since i havent told anyone so he is only one i can talk to. He said i can tell whoever i want if it helps but i dont have anyone that close and even if i did feel embarrassed or maybe just really let down ... i truly believe now if nothing else no guarantees in life but i also dont believe grass is greener elsewhere. He had slways been a good husband and father this really was a shock ... and looking back maybe some things i was naive to not see or realized perhaos even overlooked since i truly felt then i had it all. I think im going to look into some self help books and of course keep this blog close. Maybe some of the doing better is dropping pounds and back in my skinny jeans. Though that doesnt mend a broken heart. Hopful time will.

    1. Skinny jeans may not mend a broken heart but they do boost the spirits!
      Your need to get the whole story is completely normal. And it doesn't sound like pain shopping to me. It sounds like you want the whole picture -- no half-truths, no minimizing. The whole truth. And his reluctance to give you that is exactly what you think it is -- shame. But I think he needs to face that shame. I suspect that his ability to ignore those uncomfortable feelings is part of what allowed him to cheat in the first place. To rebuild a marriage after betrayal, all that stuff has to be pulled into the light. He needs to recognize his issue with shame. He needs to understand how he's able to compartmentalize feelings he doesn't want to face. Otherwise, he remains vulnerable to making poor choices in the future.
      It will be humiliating for him. It will induce shame. But he'll realize it doesn't kill him. And there's a certain liberation in being completely seen -- with all our flaws. And realizing we can survive that. That is a far deeper love than most of us experience because we keep those shameful parts hidden.
      It will be hard for you. But I think it's worse when we know parts of the story are being kept from us. It contributes to our sense of powerlessness.

    2. Ask for whatever you need to feel secure. I kept having this need to dig. I'm glad I did because he said it started in August 2012 but it really started in Nov 2011 I found out he was still lying from looking at the bank statements. Did it really make a difference? It did to me and that is all that mattered.

    3. Thanks ladies ill talk about it again ... i cant make him allow me access i know demands get you nowhere fast. I feel good talking here wish i would have started weeks ago i couldn't focus much still day by day. A little sunshine today vs rain helped!

    4. Anonymous,
      No, you can't make him give you access...but the fact that he won't do it willingly speaks volumes to me. In my opinion, it's tough enough rebuilding a marriage after infidelity WITH a remorseful husband willing to do whatever it takes; it's damn near impossible with a husband who's not willing to show you whatever you feel you need.
      I wrote this post a while back to help husbands understand what's going on with us. Perhaps it will help:

    5. Rock and a hard place? We spoke again last night ... didnt go well swollen teary eyes today ... still so new and raw 2 steps forward 3 back. While he wants to forget it move on i want to talk and process i told him its like a puzzle you hold all pieces to and can help me put it together. He stated again a very bad mistake one he regrets deeply noting he hasn't felt this connected to me in years and sees what he needed was here all along thus why he gets so frustrated when i bring it up again. Some days ge talks others he shuts down ... sure hes on the same roller coaster as me ... really same but different ... For now what i gather he is not going to show me bank or phone records ... sighhhh. Not sure id find more then hes already told me, which is alot .... or there is much more? its more about seeing it with my own eyes while picture it wont change anything i want to maje it work, trying, no directions come with this topic!. The conversation went south when i snapped if it were me id give you whatever you wanted ... he felt 2 ft tall and was anxiety stricken i kept on for a bit then let him be. Its a shame we had a nice weekend but there will be good and bad days. He was gonna go to his moms tonight but after cooling off decided not to ... seeing leaving and running away will not take the feelings away we need to stay lean on one another figure this out. Says he wants me. Us. To stay home. I mentioned how showing all may set him free and help too? My stance came off a bit counselor like which he didnt much like ... seems alot he sees different like im criticizing or tell him how he feels vs listening? I said well then open your mouth and tell me .... long lonely night. We talked since hes being sweet and said he wants us to work he doesnt want a divorce either and also has what ifs and why questions. We are so fresh from d day wondering if hell come around or hes just wishing ill stop asking to see more detail. Ill tell u ladies he has told me many things ... only ill know if its enough ... clarity will come ... just not sure when... not soon enough. ? Keep tracking along ... managing. Navigating. ... id love a day of normalcy. .. whatever that may be nowadays hummmmmmm. Never been in his shoes. .. i can be obsessive some days but i also dont want to be naive. ... head meet heart!

    6. A quote i found today .... be happy ... dont recycle the past? Hummmm food for thought?

    7. Anonymous,
      You said "no directions come with this topic" and that is the absolute truth. Unfortunately for me, the real healing began after I made some decisions and asked some questions that, in hindsight, made specific parts worse for me. I'm sure a lot of us wish we had found this site immediately after D-Day... I know I do.
      I agree with what others have said, which is that you need to know certain things to heal. My husband answered every question I posed on D-Day #2, which was a lot more focused on the detailed whats and wheres of the physical part of affair. These are some of the questions I wish I could take back because they were just more info than I personally needed to know. I don't, however, regret asking questions that came to me in the following weeks that pertained to time frames, locations and number of interactions. I know that in my experience, after that night of D-Day #2, we went through a period where he would become defensive and alternated between sad and angry when the questions started to come. With more talking and therapy, it came down to it being the shame of acknowledging what he had done and facing the damage. I believe Elle said in one of her previous posts that some spouses are appalled by their own actions once it's all out in the open. And for a remorseful spouse, it probably hurts to see their betrayed spouse's pain. I know once my husband grasped that while it was shameful and painful for him to face over and over again what he had done, answering the questions was helping me heal.
      And in the early days and weeks, the pain is exactly as you put it... raw. I found I struggled with the logical part that could understand the facts and and the emotional part that just hurt. And at that time, I felt like that hurt would just never end. But days of normalcy do come.
      I hope that you are able to get the answers that you need.

    8. Anon. I never ever suspected a damn thing until Dday. And I even HAD. access to phone records that I JUST never looked at. I had so much info under my nose. I felt like sugh a fool when I looked at those Bills. Every filthy text and phone call documented. Did my H feel shame? You bet. Did I care? Nope. He damn well should have felt shame and I am relived that he had the ability to feel it. It was not until weeks after Dday that I realized I did not have the passwords to his Amazon account (did he send her things?). His PayPal (did he send her money?) or his bank account. I told him I needed them.. he did not really want to give up his bank account, he told me he was embarrassed. But he did and what that showed was the massive amounts of alcohol he was buying around his encounters. He had to fortify himself to go through with all if this. Did I know he was drinking? You bet. It was our only bit of contention for years , but how far he had escalated that shocked me. This embarrassed the hell out of him (he stopped drinking on d Dday) but that was all I found. What it gave me was a clearer picture. And you deserve a completly clearer picture, as clear as you want. It's diffeent for everyone. I did not need sexual details her age or what she looked like. I Did not care. I cared what he was taking from US to give to HER So you deserve the things you want and need and they will stop you from speculating, which shockingly can be worse. My hS affair was awful. But how I had pictured it starting was much worse. I thought it love at first site and all that whoo-ha across a crowded bar blah blah when the reality she was a whore!!! I found that out close to a month later.
      Yeah for me a whore was actually easier for me to deal with, no matter the progression from there.
      I recommend you both read "after the affair". For a bit more insite. Maybe then he will see you deserve info and actually need it to heal.

    9. Im thankful for the replies and insight it means the world talking to others like me ... who live it, going thru it and in hope are surviving it! I also realize there are many passwords i dont have. I still want to see the records but so far hes not budging tho he did offer up some more elaborate detail. He had mentioned before going to the bar but gave me specific bars and examples of how many nights went ... sometimes they went together and other times he was there alone killing time to not have to be at her house or bcuz he left there becuz they were fighting only to return to sleep ... why didn't you just come home? He said it would look to weird. .. he worked sometime at a night location i thought it was all overnight 1 to 2 nights a week ... while he did work at night it was only a few hours then he would see her. He said at first it was a few times a month or even every couple months she had boyfriends in between or from what i gather was doing her thing until she needed something then she was calling again it became more regular over the past two years and heavy 2xs a week for the ladt year. The last 6mo cell phone, cable boxes and i cant even believe this my old car that i thought was broke and sitting in one of his work sites. Big fucking sighhh. I cant wrap my hands around it. This is not him to be taken, threaten and its even more of a mindfuck since he does take very good care of the ones he loves! He said he didnt do those things bcuz of love but becuz of the ow threats mulnipulation and holder of his dirty secret. He said over time it wasnt even enjoyable and he was just trying to keep covering looking for a way out. He feared losing us and was trying to come ip with a plan? He never seemed fearful in our life always in control taking care of evetything so could this fantasy life actually have put him in this different role? I read that many cheating get caught in this circle of feeling trapped. Really tho does it make y really act and do crazy things! He told me a few times he helped her w bills or bought ger kid gifts for xmas ... big wtf! He said they really didnt do much if going to a dive bar or ordering pizza in was highlights i just dont get taking that over telling and getting out? But ive never been in those shoes so i cant understand ... im prob rambling. My D-day was him coming home telling me after the ow yet again threatened to tell me only he called her bluff ... the past 6mo our life was getting back to norm date nights our kid finally in her own bed and time 2gether. Looking back a few date nights hed often become teary eyed i just didnt know why? He said he began to think maybe he can tell me and work it out so ge did and tge more he talked the more i asked and my ah ha moment of im not crazy came about. D day after i cried a bit became us driving to pu my car from the ow ... yep id be damn if that bitch was going to continue on my dime. I turned off the cell phone (was on our family plan) geez!!! And turned off cable i wish i would have got these items back too but what does it matter? Ow had nothing to say i gave her a piece of my mind and not a finer moment yelled down tge street for her to get a job worry about her family since her child doesnt even live with her and yep yelled to the world everyone look at the whore running who fucks people's husbands! Had i not been in my right mind or had someone to pick up ny kid fro. School the old me pre mama prob would have chased her and got physical part of me wishes i had while i no its better to have not an eye for an eye would only make the world blind, right?

    10. I know i already know alot im just so damn black and white i want it all my own worse enemy sometime . Ow emailed me a week after dday 10% truths 90% bs im sure stating she wants to forget this nightmare. She kept calling him hang ups anonymous mean text and had ger friend call a few times to say she misses him wants ti see him. To my knowledge that has all stopped hope that ow moocher is on to her next out of our lives. Seeing her i was like really??? To my husband nothing special indeed not sure i would have felt better if she was a super model? Idk guess any shape or form can ego stroke. ..

    11. Part 3
      if i didnt work full time have kids house bills a real life i could be 100% attentive beck and call too. Get a life ow! Thats not reality ... real life is thick and thin good and bad. The way he describe what the relationship becaome reminds me of high school. Tge threats i guess became bigger and fights more when he refused to give in or do more for her. Again thsts based off his words and my fill in speculations. Some of it just seems so out of his character. So either hell give me more or ill have to decide if its enough time may tell. Time the FOUR letter word these days ...

    12. I will get the book steam recommended. Overall im dealing. I wonder if my appetite will ever return i eat because i know i have too but havent felt the hunger sensation dince dday. I didnt sleep for over 9 days or woke in hot sweats ... i can sleep somewhat now. I feel changed like joy is hard or maybe just not as empathized in general with us the kids ... i like to think im wounded deeply wounded but not broken and deeper down i love my husband dearly and i dont think grass is greener elsewhere. I want to work in my own green grass. I dwell a bit and so much long for some normalcy. .. guess well see what that new normal looks like. My husband is trying in many ways im putting efforts in too. I wholeheartedly want us to work... i refer to my wedding scripture often. Our anni is coming up ... planning to go out ... celebrate? Hummm more like continue to believe in us. Thank you for listening providing feedback and well just showing support and strength. My husband repeats hes was selfish. Looking now sees it all seems nuts! The shame and gulit had esculated since telling me... beating himself up he said hes had it all right here the whole time. Being a new mama sidetracked me for awhile not an excuse to cheat but i am sorry i didnt see how he was really feeling. Funny when we saw ow and i was telling her off and he was telling her its over we drove home and he said its prob bad feeling good you stuck up (him) he said it made him feel like i was his #1 again. I noted ive always been!!! Kinda backwards huh. I dont have to defend him but i will because i vowed to and want too .... have to find a way to deal ..
      The hurt is an indescribable. .. but i know you all know what im talking about. Heres hope to a fabulous long holiday weekend to all of us.

    13. Ps dandelion i know about not enough and too much info! I found some pictures and videos on our computer of the ow some w my husband no face shots though.... from years ago nothing recent. Apparently he forgot they were there???? Not sure .... he told me delete them he has no desire to see ir keep. Looking back i may have thought or found a few other things throughout the years just dudnt piece together ... let it go or didnt listen to the inner girl inside me ....shugged it off ... sure wish i did. Couldve shouldve wouldve ... cant have to try to look at today and tomorrow not yesterday. Some days easier said then done. Even though i seen her in person i was so emotional it bugs me i cant 100% remember her face it possible id walk by her on the street even .... husband tells me he has no pictures of her??? Oh well not even sure why it bugs me shouldnt really what does it matter .... i did say i wish i seen her done up ... or maybe that's how she looks all the time ... just a random thought

    14. Anonymous,
      Thanks for sharing your story. It's always amazing to me how the circumstances can be different...but the emotions are just the same. So many of these guys do get trapped -- stuck in keeping it going because of terror that we'll find out. It IS nuts. And we all pretty much are devastated, which most of us never imagined just how devastated we'd feel.
      Sounds like you're doing pretty well, all things considered. Keep taking care of yourself. And trust that those days of feeling marginally better will keep growing.

    15. Its that sinking feeling that wakes you up at night mind movies ar bed and awaking to remembering it all when its time to get up ... laying in bed running late cause its just hard to get motivated to get the day started. I was doing better with some of the above until a couple nights ago we argued cried finally had a deep conversation at 3am i learned alot more of why he did it very detailed info about what happened emotionally and sexually and while he said he may have cared for her he was never leaving explaining some are marriage material and not marriage material shed be the latter and while his selfish needs were being met he knew deep down she could never fill my shoes and he was really wanting me to do the things she was doing said hed even think about me with her warped huh ... maybe what i want to hear possibly even the truth ... i guess or not. We talked records i wanted again he said phone they talked or txt daily and bank he still doesnt want to show me leaving me to assume which i believe is far worse. I dont even care if $ were blacked out just wanna see where he they were doing and thats when i said ok no password just give me certian dates he came clean his last business trip was not away but at her house for a few days supposedly due to her threats. I feel lied to again more hurt again explained if he keeps lying covering it holds us back he said hes so damn remoreseful ashamed and said hed lied so much to cover something not even worth it in the end and feels beyond tertible dumb and regretful Apologies again and ageement we want to see how to move forward. Not sure whats on those statements not sure if knowing more where what when really matters ... as much as his willingness to try to make this work. Crying again sad and hurt. Guess thats that trickle truth u ladies talk about id like it all in one dose please. Trying to deal. Keep hope and not lose my mind. Struggling again 8week mark roller coaster ...

  15. Thank you for your kind support. It's so refreshing to hear about your success stories and even your struggles as it makes me feel like I'm not alone. I guess it takes a strong woman to want to work on her marriage after being betrayed and hurt so badly. I realized today that I seem to get more upset at work. I sit there and think "how could he do that to me?" and then I ask myself "you're going to let someone treat you that way and still stand by their side." But there has been those fights where we end things in the heat of the moment and we are both devastated. He's scared to lose me and I'm scared to lose him as well but only time will reveal the truth if we can make it.
    In my head I have based my DDay on the last day they slept together since their relationship was a "friends" status. I'm anxious to pass that day as I feel like some sort of relief will come from it. I hope that I can support women as well one day once I heal and have focused on fixing me. The thought of waking up and feeling free of the weight excites me and gives me something to look forward to and it gives me hope.
    Dandelion you say that you're still quite recent to your situation. How long has it been so far?
    Elle, I came across an article that you were featured in about infidelity and it led me here. Because of you, I don't think I will spend countless hours googling a solution to my situation. So many times I got down after reading people's hopeless comments. Now I know that I don't need to search the heck out of this awful topic and that the support I seek is right here and I'm so thankful for that.
    I've even read my husband the responses so he can see that I'm on the track to positivity and not sabotage. You are all warrior woman and I send my best hugs to each and everyone of you and that is truly meant. Sometimes I wish my parents knew just so my mom could give me a reassuring hug but this is my battle and not something for them to know of. I look forward to healing and making a few new friends on the way.

    1. Anonymous,
      Warriors indeed. I do believe it takes bravery to work through infidelity. It's not for everyone, of course. Equally brave women find the courage to leave a bad situation. Bravery is figuring out what's right for us and then pursuing it no matter what we think our culture is telling us to do.
      I'd encourage you to consider telling your mom. I understand your hesitation. But if you think your mother could support you without trying to tell you what to do (and without hating your husband), then I'd tell her. My own mother was my absolute rock. She passed away six months after D-Day #1 and I miss her every day. I hope that, God forbid, my children ever go through this that they will know they can turn to me for support and compassion and reassurance that they will get through.
      I'm glad you found us. I hope you'll continue to share your story, seek out support and offer it when it feels right.

    2. Anonymous,
      I'm just over six months out from D-Day #1 when I was told it was an emotional affair and just over two months out from D-Day #2 when I discovered that it had really been a physical affair.

  16. Anonymous,
    I am six months out from D-Day #1 where I was told it was an emotional affair after finding phone records. There was no contact between them for nearly two months but it resumed after she contacted him via FB messenger and went on for about two more months till I saw FB messenger notifications from her popping up on his iPad on D-Day #2. I confronted him (That should be read as completely lost my mind, screamed, threw things and told him to pack his stuff and get out.) and got the full truth that it was a physical affair. That was a little more than two months ago. I've been in therepy since February. I believe he started therapy shortly after but it increased once the full truth came out. We are now doing joint sessions. I said in another post that I think I'm handling the pain better having already learned some coping mechanisms from D-Day #1. Yes, it still hurt like nothing I've ever experienced, but I had some coping skills to help me process that pain. I'm not sure if anyone else would find that to be the case.
    I also know my pain diminished some when I made a conscious choice not to do things that would cause me to spiral out of control, like analyzing and re-analyzing the phone records, checking her FB page or the FB pages of mutual friends, googling her, etc...
    Work was a huge issue for me early on too because I had periods of downtime and nothing to think about except what had happened.
    I still have my ups and downs for sure. And we have our struggles, mostly with my anger toward the OW and the fact that we communicate so differently. And because we are working so hard at it, minor issues or disagreements seem like a bigger deal. All part of the healing, I guess.
    This site has been a great resource to me be because I also have not shared the details with very many people. This is an outlet for me to share my feelings without being judged. I've found nothing but support and kindness here.
    Hugs to you!

  17. I've been reading this thread with interest...and I have a question.

    I have the contact details of the OW. I feel that my husband has not been completely honest with me...should I contact her and ask for her side too?

    She is married also. No children unlike us. She's ten years younger than me and beautiful and confident in a way that I could never be.

    Am I just opening myself up to more pain? Or would knowing her side help?

    1. Clover,
      I generally subscribe to the idea that you need to cut her out of your life like a cancer. I think there's little to be gained and plenty to be lost. How could you b sure that she'd tell you the truth.
      I think "no contact" with the OW goes not just for your husband but for you too. If you don't think he's being totally honest then I would focus on that. Will he be honest with a therapist? Will he submit to a lie detector? Just how far is he willing to go to help you heal from this? Just about every infidelity expert insists that there needs to be total transparency and honesty in order to begin healing. Shirley Glass calls it "walls and windows". You need a window into the affair because for too long you were given a wall.

    2. Clover not sure what you decided the OW had emailed me pages of so called details of their affair weeks after my husband confessed whike some true i know some was bullshit and admittedly did play with my mind ... mind movies add on mind make up since she at times only gave partial info and left me wondering about rest she claimed to have all these messages cards poems tickets to events yada yada ... maybe she did maybe she didnt. She offered to show me. Meet with me claiming my husband has gotten away with too much and shes only telling me as she would want to know in end she played victim and claimed she wanted to forget all about this nightmare ... her words. Ironically after no reaction from my husband and a cease desist letter from us for no contact she started calling him again about how she missed him and so on. Hang up calls and so on. That has since stopped so far anyways i am only 8 weeks from d day in opinion u may learn sone true or alot of bullshit i choose not to pursue ... a part of me did want her side but in the end she is no way vested in my life so why should i care. Ghandi quote do not let others walk in your mind with dirty feet no matter how tempting. Others felt better talking to ow choice is yours alone but be prepared it may cause more damage then goos esp if the ow is hurt by now be rejected most all is games .... a control thing for ow. All the best i feel your pain my hysband has told me alot and refused me other details only ill know in time if its enough to move past. I hope so ss my goal is for us to prevail this hurt and rebuild our marriage ... love never fails. My wedding scripture. Sighhhh

  18. Yes! Donated. Thank you for this blog.



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