Friday, October 9, 2015

We Don't Make A Choice, We Make Many Choices. Every. Single. Day.

When the minister or justice of the peace or whomever was chosen to officiate at our wedding uttered the words: "Do you take this man/woman...", most of us recognized that we were making our choice public. We knew, by that point, that we had chosen this person with whom to grow old. A wedding simply formalized and legalized that choice.
And that, we figured, was that.
What most of us didn't understand was that marriage isn't about making a choice, it's about many choices. Each day, we make a heap of choices that affect our marriage. Everything from whether to replace the empty toilet paper roll to whether to leave a little of the almost-finished cream for our spouse's coffee or use it all up. From whether to sit down over dinner, even though he's late, or leave his leftovers in the oven.
There are bigger choices, too. And a zillion compromises.
Do we respond to that Facebook friend request from our old high school boyfriend even though our stomach still gets butterflies at the thought of him? Or do we ignore it, recognizing the potential danger? Do we make jokes at our spouse's expense at the company Christmas party? Do we roll our eyes behind his back with the kids? Or do we stand alongside him as the kids rail against his "unfair" approach to discipline, which strips them of the computer for a full 24 hours?
Do we talk to him when he made the appointment for the vasectomy without telling us, even though we too were pretty sure we were done having children, or do we resent feeling devalued? Do we quietly seethe when he buys himself a convertible while we're stuck with the minivan?
Of course, he's making as many choices: Whether to talk to us about his stress. Whether to admit to his temptation. Whether to examine his mid-life funk or numb himself with TV and a sports car. And on and on and on.
After D-Day, we're faced with yet another choice.
Do we work to rebuild a marriage with a man who betrayed his wedding vows? Do we forgive? Or do we choose instead to walk into our future without him?
It feels particularly cruel that the choice puts us between that proverbial rock and hard place. And even worse – that it's a choice left to us after HIS choice that completely cut us out of his decision to bring someone else into our marriage.
And so we're left with this Catch-22. If we leave, we wonder if we're short-changing ourselves and our kids out of a new, improved version of this idiot we still love. If we stay, we worry we're short-changing ourselves out of the chance to heal without fear that it'll happen again, and to potentially have a relationship with someone who hasn't broken our heart.
But make no mistake: the common denominator in all of this is agency – choice. We get to decide, each and every day, how we behave in our marriage. And we get to decide, when it's revealed that our husbands have not been behaving in our marriage, whether we want out.
It's a choice we don't make simply once but every single day. We choose. To stay and work it out and create boundaries and rebuild on honesty and integrity and a deepened commitment. Or, should we leave, we get to choose how to live the rest of our lives without him: whether to allow this betrayal to color all future relationships and taint all future possibility of happiness, or whether to choose, each day, to live our own lives with integrity and honesty and an open heart.
Choice is, frankly, not for the faint of heart. It can feel easier, when we're so weary and heartbroken, to have that choice made for us. To have it made clear. To know how it's all going to turn out.
It can feel easier to stay...and hate him for it. Or to leave, because our cultural script indicates that's our only option, and to regret it.
But whether you stay in the marriage or leave it – even if that choice is taken from you by his choice to leave – you still have the choice to respond to it in a way that gives you dignity and self-respect, or to betray yourself.
And that, my dear friends, is power.

49 comments:

  1. Oh I live this. This is what I do when I feel anxious or down or resentful. I remember it's MY choice to be here. And yes every single day I commit to MY choice.

    Some women aren't allowed that choice for the husband to stay or not. One day they think they have a good marriage, not perfect, but not worse than others. And the next day he's gone. Without warning or little to no explanation. Gone with another woman most times. No chance at marriage counseling or reconciliation. Just gone. And still as Elle has pointed out so eloquently they too can choose to live authentic lives with dignity and not bitterness.

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  2. What a powerful post, straight shooter, no BS post. How can you still relate even though it has been so long ago for you? This post made me sad. Although I know we have choices, most of the time I feel like I don't that many choices. He made his choices without me that is sad enough. But I find his choice to stay and work on our marriage does effect my choices. Our choices are intermingled. Many days I have a hard time making any choice, practicing what I learned in therapy everyday, reminding myself to not be a doormat, set boundaries, choices are scarey when they don't belong to you alone. It reminds me of the belly dance classes I take, that flirty dance of choices. I have an audience it could be Mr. Husband or Mr. Adulter. He has 100 percent of the story to make his choices. I have only the information he gave me to make my choices. I only have half our retirement to make my choice. I have starting over to make my choice, Don't you see how really limited our choices are? The ultimate flirty dance is stay or go. Sure we have boundary choices, big deal, what does that mean? He got to see what it feels like to cum in another woman's mouth. My boundary is don't ever do that again. He got all of what he wanted, still has what he wanted. It just seems like all the choices are still his. Any real choice for me would be radical. My therapist says I'm too black and white. Where is the gray choice? Take your herpes medicine like a good girl? That is my choice? Check his phone. That is my choice? The OW calling or driving by our house, I go nuts. That is my choice. I don't have any of my OWN choices except the ultimate one, the flirty shows over, close the curtain and go somewhere. I wish I could make a choice like he seem to do then say oops I changed my mind. Except the ultimate stay or go what other choices are there? He seem to make all the choices that affected my life, so beside stay or go what's left me for? Be a better person? I know I'm being cynical. Our marriage is the strongest, loving and open it had ever been. He is now the husband I always wanted. What is wrong with me?

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    1. Lynn please I so hope you lose the pain!
      I am choosing to believe that my h did make the right choice when he chose to come back to our marriage and make it better and stronger based on what he learned from his bad choices! He was enjoying the hell out of his affair until she let him down by not being what she sold him on in the first few weeks of the affair. He thought she was so professional and had her life together but she was still going through a terrible divorce and had lost her license. He tried so many times to break it off with her and she was the one that kept black mailing him. Silence was what kept my h jumping through her hoops! It has taken me 18 months from first contact from ow to get to this realization! I put my focus on these truths rather than the truths she wanted me to believe! I so wish I had a plan for you that could lessen the raw pain I know you feel! Those first few weeks I was sure I would die in my sleep from tears and lack of sleep and food! Slowly I began to listen to what my h was saying and doing and slowly I have begun to feel the healing take place! I still have days where I have tears but not so often and not as many. It gets better and better each day that I reach for the happy and spend less time on the sad. I only pray you too can get to this place! Hugs for your pain!

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    2. Lynn,
      I'm reminded of Elie Wiesel, the Holocaust survivor who wrote Night. He endured incredible suffering and, of course, a complete stripping of choice, from what to eat, to what to do, to when he could go to the bathroom to, ultimately, whether he would die or be spared even for the day. However, he makes the point that at no time could the Nazis control what was in his head. His thoughts were his choice...and he chose hope.
      I think what's tripping you up is how literal you're being. You're right in that your choices are going to be affected by your husbands. From what time you eat dinner to whether your marriage survives. None of us lives in a vacuum. However, how you respond to each and every day is a choice. Your decision to focus on the sex acts he engaged in is a choice. Please don't think I'm minimizing your pain. Trust me, I know how horrible it is and how frequently our minds go to places we think we don't want to go. But it's a constant practice to bring your back from those places, to remind yourself that your suffering comes, not from what's happening now, but what has already passed.

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    3. You are absolutely right. It has passed. Thank you for bringing me back to now.

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    4. It's so hard, Lynn (LOVE the "Less Pain"!). It's just so fucking hard. But it does get easier. It's a constant practice to bring yourself back from that edge before you jump off. To tell yourself that there's nothing to be gained from going over except more pain. There's nothing more to know. He cheated. And it's horrible. But now comes the healing...which is under your control, not his.

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    5. Lynn Thank God less pain
      I'm so glad to see you have less pain. I'm hoping for you it's less each day. It slowly gets easier one day at a time!
      I'm sending you rays of sunshine and hope today is even better than yesterday!

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  3. I've made some bad choices during my marriage, as we all do. I was very complacent. And now my choices have become much more difficult. It is easy to feel victimized and tossed to and fro by HIS bad choices. I need to be reminded that yes, I am empowered. I can be strong and make good choices for my girls and me.

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    1. Nobody who has lived hasn't also made some poor choices. We are flawed creatures. But yes, as long as you hold firm to a recognition that we each get to choose how we approach each day and each person, you'll be on solid ground.

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  4. It has been very hard for me for a while now. My husband doesn't know if he wants this relationship anymore. He says he feels numb and hates himself for the pain he has caused and has ruined the life he worked so hard for. He says he can't give me the attention and love I need right now because he is so broken himself. He tells me he loves me but I'm not sure he is in love with me and I don't think he knows either. He has talked about living apart to see if we will miss each other and appreciate what we once had. After months of saying he feels this is the last resort and hearing him say he feels numb and has no emotions, I decided to leave and stay with my parents. It hurts and I'm upset about it and angry because he did this to us. I always tried so hard to make him happy and always put him first and now here I am broken at the age of 31.... All my friends are getting married and having babies and here I am in the corner with my head in my hands feeling so alone and heart broken. Tomorrow is our 7 year wedding anniversary. We said that we would spend it together and only talk about the good times and enjoy our day together. It actually makes me sad that I'm going to see him tomorrow and at the end of the night I'm going to have to say goodbye to him again. I know it won't be the last time I see him and I can go back to our house whenever I please especially since we have three dogs but I just feel like this might be our last dinner together. I'm so sad and hurt.... I'm doing my best to be strong and give him space. I'm hurt by what he did but it hurts so much more to know that maybe he just doesn't love me the same anymore. I know you can't force anyone to love you but it hurts when you love them so much and had plans to spend the rest of your life with them. Like the post says above, sometimes the choice isn't yours. For me it was at one time until he could no longer handle to see me go through the pain he's caused and has chosen to let us go...

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    1. Lili
      It sounds like you are taking the right steps to making that choice easy for him.

      Shit or get off the pot as the old saying goes. You are either all in or all out. Screw him and his feigned ambivalence. You deserve better. Big girl pants Lili and I know you can do it. Find your own self worth, your own value and if he doesn't see it, you are better off alone. You've only been married a short time with no children yet right? Cut your losses now before it's too late and you bring innocents into this world with him.

      I'm sorry to be so harsh. But life is NOT short. It's long and hard and trying. This guy isn't someone to trust to make that long journey with. He's a fence sitter, he wishy washy. He cheats and then blames you for his misery. He can't handle how he's hurt you?? Oh poor baby. Look I'm a girl of a certain age. It's not getting any easier for me. I'm tired and I hurt and I still get up every single day and work hard because I have to. Make your own life. You're 31!!! How wonderful. You are a lucky young woman. You have the whole world to explore and youth and vitality are on your side. Take advantage of it.

      I wish you nothing but the best and the wisest of choices my young bunker mate :)

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    2. Lili,
      Two broken people can't create a whole. Each needs to be whole him/herself. I know it's hard but perhaps this is the time for each of you to heal yourselves. You say you always gave him everything, which sounds romantic, but isn't ultimately what a healthy relationship is about. Maybe you need to learn how to give yourself what you need and he needs to learn to give himself what he needs in order that your marriage doesn't strain under the pressure of trying to be everything to each other.
      Spend time together if that feels right. You might also want to do what's called The 180 -- it gives you some emotional space while giving him a taste of life without you being his everything. You can read about it here: https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/

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  5. Lili, this isnt right at all. Do you have the choice of staying in your own house and making him move out? I am dead serious. It's not fair (although none of this is fair for any of us really) that you need to move out. That's just more injury to injury. I would hope he would man up and let you have the house if that's what you want. Let him feel the burden of his choice, which seems to be not to stay with you? There is a chemical based "theory" that a man who is on the fence may not miss us until 8 weeks have passed. And that is 8 weeks of NO contact. He does not get to hear your voice, feel your touch, nothing, nothing written either.. Dramatic, I know. I can look for a source for you if you are interested. In that 8 weeks, and don't play games, although you do not need to tell him why--you can state up front that you dont want any contact for 2 months. It's a painful two months for you no doubt. I have been through it (but not in my current situation) Obviously he has his demons, and seems to know he is broken. Is he working on that or just wallowing in that excuse? and Btw I hate this "i love you but not sure I am in love with you" line. I have no clue what that means. It makes me really angry, I have had many days and momentsvbefore and after D-day that I felt love for my H but not so much "in" love but it didn't make me want to leave. and i can see that stupid phrase, said outloud makes you so sad. Again, not fair.

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  6. I hurt for you and with you, Lili. My husband says the same sort of things. I also feel broken and torn up inside. This morning I was wondering: will I ever feel joy again? Joy without a strong tinge of sadness? Sometimes it hurts to breathe. They tell us that it is a process, that we will heal. They are absolutely right, I know. We have to take it one day at a time, one hour at a time. It is OK to be so sad, we need to be kind to ourselves. Talk to the ladies here; they give very good advice. (((Hugs))) to you, sister, I am praying for you today.

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  7. No, we absolutely had no choice in the choice our husbands made to cheat. And thank God I know that with all my heart because if I did have anything to do with that horrible choice he made, I would jump off the closest bridge! HE made that choice, over and over again, all by his little broken self. HE chose to lie and gaslight and cheat. That is all on him. Now HE lives with HIS choices. We all do it every day. We LIVE with our choices.

    If your choice is to stay post infidelity for whatever reason, HE is not part of that choice you make. You have the power to make that choice. Now if that choice is making you miserable there's always the alternative. And why don't we choose that? Is it fear, is it habit, is it the path of least resistance? That is our responsibility to sort out to make wise choices.

    I've questioned my choice to stay. Over and over again ad nauseum!! And yes my choice is shaded with all the above but I refuse to feel trapped in my choice. My eyes are wide open and I've made the choices right for me. If I thought for one minute my life would be better, I'd be happier alone, I'd leave. I could live in a trailer park down by the river for the peace of mind I seek. I just believe I'd be trading one set of problems for another. My life is here. My problems that I know and have turned inside, outside, and upside down are here. I KNOW these demons. I don't know the others.

    But one thing I refuse to do is castigate myself for my own choices. They aren't perfect and whose are? I am lucky I have a husband that adores me, well he says he does and acts like he does :), is doing everything, ok most everything, right to help me heal. I have my life, although stained, as I know how to live it. If my husband weren't doing the right thing or I felt any ambivalence about choosing to stay in our marriage, I'd leave too. They have to at least throw you a fucking bone!! One word of uncertainty and I'd learn to freaking love that unfamiliar life in that trailer down by the river!!

    I've also chosen to NEVER let anyone else's poor choices to have such an impact on my life and well being. Never.Again!! That was stupid and immature and naive. Yeah he choose to do all those things with her, sex, money, intimate conversations, a job in our business and he is paying the price for it. Just a few weeks ago a former employee was chiding my son about the OW in our business. It's disgusting and they think it goes away. It never goes away. It's a black mark on your character and reputation forever. I posted a picture on FB of a cathedral we visited in France on our recent trip and a friend commented if there were lightening bolts when my husband entered! It.Doesnt.Go.Away. EVER.

    So yes our choices are huge and significant and impactful. And you either have the guts to stand by them and embrace them or you don't. And there's NO shame in either one. Because no matter what you choose it's an honorable choice. You aren't making choices to hurt or deceive anyone. You're making choice for YOU and what's right for YOU. I do not let anyone's cultural norm shade MY decisions. But I also own my choices.

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    1. Wow TH, that's a powerful tribute to your own choices. Thank-you for that.

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  8. Lili, I feel your pain exactly. My husband is just like yours, apparently. Yes, we've been back together after separation now for over four months. I can still feel his ambivalence. Hell, he tells me about it. And it would be different if he said that we just don't get along or something tangible, yet it has more to do with the fact that he cannot deal with as he put it in the cloud hanging over his head. He feels if we were to get a divorce, he would no longer have that cloud hanging over his head. And you know what? With his dysfunctional pattern of compartmentalization… He may be absolutely right My advice to you… ? First and foremost you should be in the house, he should've moved out. Having said that, perhaps you want to live with your mother right now and that I understand. I also feel you should hang in there until you have some clarity. You will never be absolutely certain, but I do believe you will know if it is time, time for a divorce. I would hate for you to walk away from the marriage and wonder. I am hanging in there at this point with my husband, yet I will not do it forever. I am comfortable right now, in fact, I have many moments of happiness and joy, despite the fact that Dday was just eight months ago. I am finding that at this point… My moments of happiness and joy are not when I'm with my husband. There are some when I am with him yet frankly there are more when I am with my family and my girlfriends. Even still, I'm not ready to throw in the towel. Our marriage counselor has been away for several weeks we start back again tomorrow. And here is something that if you would've told me six or eight months ago I would've never believed you ... There is a part of me that is starting to fall out of love with my husband. I care deeply for him, yet I expect reciprocation in my marriage and the ambivalence that he continues to feel and demonstrate towards me ... It is not what I want in marriage. So, I find joy in the moments where I can, I work on myself and I know that I have a choice and right now I choose to be where I am. I will reevaluate that choice in time. May peace be with you and I am grateful for your dear mother. Give her a hug for me :-). Love & hugs!

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    1. Melissa ... every person is different and self analysis is normally harder then another being critical of you .... who wants to look in the mirror and say yep im a fuck up ... but it is only at that time that one can really absorb what they did ... what happened and work to improve it. My H when he finally dumped a boat load of details was drowning in guilt hurt for what he did but also dealing with himself his flaws and what he allowed himself to do ... get away with and go against his own values to a point when he really looked at it from outside in and took his selfishness out of it he even felt used by ow to a point. .. which angered him. Fog lifted ... illusion is up and what he gain was far far less then what he had to lose. Apparently before dday he cried in the shower daily but continued to get deeping in as he was really trying to find a way out ... so hard to fathom but something we hear often. That was rock bottem which happened right after he went back for a quickie which now wasnt all that. and he was now showing a vulnerability that one becomes so fragile to admit how badly they fucked up. How poor their choices were. Like i did this!!! It takes a strong person to say sorry and a stronger person to forgive .... it was with all the grace i had to say outloud to my H .... you made bad choices that hurt me ... us ... and that disappointed me and brought me to my knees but you are not a bad person ... the pressure of seeing me sob, not sleep and just off kilter that he expressed an urge to run. Go away. Take time ... i did not force him to stay but said running is not the solution just like me throwing you out or leaving myself is not a choice to shoot from hip but be thought out. And i noted going away vs staying isnt going to make the hurt any less, is it? He hasnt left any yet and once he started telling me things and i could start to listen without crying or using the details against him communication improved. Its hard to not rub his nose in shit ... sometimes i do and others i choose not to doesnt help us any ... doesnt change anything. Forgive is strong word hard at times i like to think better ... accept what i can not change and work on things i can. Its a daily effort for all of us ... but we need H to be all in too .... if we have any chance to make it together. Strength and love to you all. Good days. Bad days. Taking in stride and trying to stay afloat with the tide vs swimming against the current.

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    2. Melissa and Wounded,
      I've sometimes taken heat for being an "affair apologist" because I don't automatically assume that betrayal is a deal-breaker and that all of should immediately dump our spouses. And both of you speak to the value of respecting and validating each person's choice to do what feels right. Nobody should stay in a marriage that feels suffocating. But neither should any of us assume that we know what another should do. Far better, I think, to offer support as we each figure out which path is the right one for us.

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  9. We do make choices everyday and I wish I had fully realized the impact of some of those small cumulative choices on my 15 year marriage. I also wish I had the courage not to avoid some big choices over the years.

    Right now I feel overwhelmed by choices big and small and all of them seem to have huge significance. I often feel tired and sometimes worry about making a bad choice due to exhaustion.

    I have 2 family weddings coming up in the next 30 days and I am dreading it - I used to love weddings. There is just no way to really explain how everyday actions impact your marriage.

    One day at a time and one choice at a time. I am trying to choose courage and compassion in all things. Love and support to all those here.

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    1. Becky,
      Weddings can be tough -- all those promises and "forevers" that we know all too well don't quite work out that way. I went through a pretty cynical stage where it was all I could do not cry or roll my eyes. However, I came to realize that no marriages are alike, that we each walk our own road and it's not up to me to decide at the outset that it's all a big sham. I tried to just be happy for those making the vows, knowing that they will have their share of challenges, whether infidelity or other life problems. All marriages will have ups and downs. Try and look at it as the chance to be enveloped in your family's love, knowing that there's not a person there who will escape life without some pain and that the best we can do is hold each other close when it happens.

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    2. I can relate to this. I am a photographer. I shot my last wedding two weeks ago. I don't want to shoot another one, and that's sad to me. Maybe one day I'll change my mind.

      I was an eternal romantic before DDay. Now, I love in a state of perpetual disillusionment. It's been 10 months, so I don't beat myself up. I may one day find my way forward. Never back.

      As a romantic, I was naturally sentimental. Photos, memories, family traditions ... these were things I cherished. Now, they just bring pain. He's doing everything right. He's being the husband I always dreamed of. Sadly, I don't feel it. For the first time in my life, I can relate to that dreadfully horrible phrase : I love him, but I'm not in love with him.

      Life is good, but I am sad. I'm staying for the kids, and I'll defend my choice to anyone.

      And yes, the sex is great, better than ever. He used to bore me. Now, he knows that's not an option.

      It's early for me, so I trust that God can redeem what is lost.

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  10. Melissa you are hanging strong with resolve to keep your marriage together.Good for you, but no wonder there is a part of you falling out of love. This is where your husband has to also make the choice to stay and work on it. It cannot be a one way street. IF my H had been ambivalent, nothing would have worked.I would not have begged him. The only time I begged him was D-day when I begged, or actually I gave him no choice. it was her or it was me RIGHT NOW.
    You do have time on your side--literally, time will reveal a lot. Sounds to me like you are using your time well.

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  11. Elle..can we make like one whatsapp group ?

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    1. No idea. I'm not on Whatsapp? How might it work?

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  12. A daily choice in deed. Its going to be a day .... 10 steps forward 50 back or so it seems H said 100 steps back but thats becuz hes reminded again of his bad choices. H left this morning without saying bye .... oh ok .... i see another poor choice. Well in my opinion anyways. We had a tif last night about something unrelated to the affair but with tensions high ... and feelings hurt it esculated. ... his actions reminded me of how he used to act when it was going on and i didn't know .... and feeling some triggers i stated .... after what you did to me. ... i will not stand to accept your anger ... rude remarks and attitude in general. He did apologize but i felt need to be heard so it all got heated again .... Again tif was unrelated and i know to say we can never have a tif or him be anger in general is unrealistic. ... how pompous of me entitled even .... to think that way ... he better damn well treat me like gold but then again we are all human, right and the world. .. our relationship imperfect. ... but i still feel like making better choices ... like saying bye in the morning could reduce the anxiety, reduce the anger to ease the flow again ....to work through everything together. Im rambling ... long day ahead and im choicing to be quiet today. Sit back .... breath .....be sad ... cause i am again. But this is healing right .... time the dreaded 4 letter word. Heal ... Love .... more 4 letter words. ... i maybe cynical and hurt this am ... maybe ill be able to turn it around by midday and if not thats ok to. Just talking outloud ..... lonely again. Feeling my feelings today X's 10. Sighhhh

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    1. Wounded
      My h and I always, always kiss and hug and say good bye in the morning no matter what, and LOL we work together!!! No he should have said good bye with a kiss and hug but should have you!

      Yeah fights post infidelity take on a whole life and new meaning of their own.

      Everybody has a right to show anger, properly and when necessary. I think anger is good when brought out and not stuffed down. Stuffing down anger builds resentment. I encourage my h to show a little anger if he feels it. LOL he doesn't think he deserves to show anger either after what he's done. I think, different story. No he has no right to show anger at my anger of his poor choices. But if I've done something disrespectful than by all means he should be angry.

      I like how you are owning you choice to stay. I like how you are committed to your decision and your marriage. I think you are on the right track.

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    2. Wounded,
      I think TryingHard's point re. how to express anger is important. Your husband sounds like he's still struggling with his anger, which, as I often say, is usually a mask for hurt and fear. Anger makes us feel powerful but it's an illusion. And, again, choices, right? As Dr. Phil has said, you're either contributing to a marriage or contaminating it. With every single interaction, we're making a choice.

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    3. How right you and Dr. Phil are! I saw myself contaminating our marriage by mishandling my anger more than once. I was dragging the anger about the affair into a current anger/hurt feelings over what? I have no idea! I'm just glad we were able to talk about it and how I needed to find a way to deal with those feelings! One day at a time! Now I feel we are both contributing to rebuilding a stronger marriage each day we are together! Thanks Elle and all you ladies who are traveling this bumpy road!

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    4. Wounded,

      Me too, feeling my feelings today. It was a long night and today feels very long as well. We are not alone. I'm thinking of you and sending you support.

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    5. Agonizingly long night, cried myself to sleep only to awake a couple hours later ... up all night alot on my mind feeling not in despair or doom and gloom but desparatly alone, hurt abd on edge again... h and i tried to talk, unproductive so for now we agree to disagree. He seems cold, distant and down. We all have our bad days which i told him we spoke of choices no guarantees and also for this to work we both have to be all in which he normally is ... sometimes the stress or pressure get to him? He wants some type of recognition for staying said he knows he wants this marriage but also knows he doesn't want to constantly be reminded by me of his wrong doings ... says he reminds himself enough daily! I dont feel i always being it up but it is there even if im not saying it i guess. I told him each day we have a choice each day will take effort and the one thing i know forsure i do not have control over his choice his feelings his actions as that is to each there own but i have try to help, be a team, work on us ... h says fix vs work ... but only if he does too. Reminded him of time ... through it and asked for patience as hes dealt w this longer then me.

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    6. Part 2 he feels a bit under my thumb due to transparency i am requesting which hes been doing ... check in or as i say have courtesy ... this is an adjustment as i was very lenient prior to dday and never took much time for me. He said he may need space go out now then he used to not always w ow either sports friends ... he has been doing things only w me since dday. I shouldnt have but barked back ok thats ok but me too maybe not necessarily out out either just by myself spa walk at a cafe reading or perhaps out w friends .... i rarely did this before. I dont feel deprived it could be more now well if u do i will too which isnt always right eithe . Im a take care of get it done kinda girl never put ne first really. Im rambling .... maybe

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    7. Part 3 . ... i talk to much sometimes .... maybe need to work on being quiet some let cards fall figure out what hes processing too ... to make him sometimes sway from all in to .... this wishy wash detached person. Maybe its his guilt ... idk or maybe its him thinking he doesbt deserve another chance or maybe he doesnt want to put in effort .... i felt he was all i . Says he loves me so much .... but says ge doesnt like how hes feeling this week ...... hummmmmmmm one day at a time i know left right left ....

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    8. Sorry important hes like u dont gave to stay here or fake it? I assured him im not. .. i want to be here by my choice to stay i know i could go. Id be just as hurt if i left then if i stayed and for now we need time ... i think we are worth the try.

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    9. Wounded,
      You sound exhausted. And when we're exhausted -- emotionally and physically -- we're not making choices from solid ground.
      Consider journalling all those thoughts so you can get them out. I also talk too much. And I'm good at it. My husband feels as though I talk circles around him. I'm like some high-priced lawyer. But while I might be "right", by the time I'm done, he's completely flummoxed because his brain is in flight mode. He's retreated emotionally and all he can hear me say is "blah blah, you're an idiot, blah". His shame is triggered and I might as well save my breath.
      The shame piece is huge for any of these guys who actually recognizes what they've done. And it can shut them down until they work through it. Ideally, they get to a place where they feel badly about what they did, not about who they are. But to get there, they need to separate who they are from what they did...and at a time when we do NOT want to hear anything that sounds even remotely like minimizing or blame-shifting. The fear that they're going to be listening to us catalogue what assholes they are for the rest of their lives is enough to make them wonder whether any of this is worth it. None of us is thinking rationally at this point. Which is where a journal, a place you can dump all your anger and fear and profanity, can help you. Or a great therapist. Or both.

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    10. Elle & TH you nailed it .... he shuts down at times ... everything above spot on! It took him some time but i do know ALOT. More then enough and other things i may never know ... i hope i know enough to get through this and i feel like we r worth trying after his last confessions july im still hurt but the obsessing over detail greatly reduced. I still think about it but in a processing manner much more productive with the ocassional overthinking i do t feel so trapped by the unknowns anymore. He seems all in again yep that was it our conversation last week had him feeling accused. . Down ... like will i always have this black cloud. .. finger pointing wife looking at me as a cheater can i ever redeem myself? Truth be told he truly misses the sparkle in my eyes. H will talk about it even brings it up himself sometimes. Noone else knows. We currently are not in MC not opposed not many near by funds sitter etc we have started up date nights again and just the openess alone has helped tremendously! !!! Still alot of work ahead and road bumps but as long as he is willing so am i. Thx ladies.

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  13. Afterall its my choice to stay ... work on it.

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    1. Exactly Wounded. Your choice. Every single day

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  14. So much truth to this post. It hit home when I read it and realized how much impact our choices (big or small) can have.
    Today is the six month anniversary of D-Day #3. The day the full truth came out and I felt like my entire world collapsed around me. The day I learned how much his choices would impact my life.
    Several months ago I said to my husband, "When is my time to be selfish and reckless?" When is that? When do I get to act without caution, without a second thought to the damage it will do to others? I know the answer now... It is any time I choose. I just choose not to. I know every choice comes with a consequence. I don't want to live as my husband does now as a result of his choices. Yes, he got the temporary thrill and ego boost that came with the affair. Was it worth shattering my heart and knowing that he will now always be the husband who cheated? I know he would say that none of it was worth it and he wishes he could take it all back. Instead, he lives with it. His choice now is to face his actions, the consequences of those actions and the internal issues that allowed him to act the way he did in the first place. His choice is to commit to our marriage and work every day to restore my faith in him and his own faith in himself.
    And I'm making choices, even simple ones, every day. I choose to not search for the OW on the Internet because it causes me to spiral into negativity and takes me back to past pain. I choose not to contact her and "have the last word". And I do really make these decisions as Elle has said every. single. day. Do I want to know where she is for my own peace of mind and sense of security? Yes. Do I want to lash out at her, say things to hurt her as much as her actions hurts me? Yes. But neither of these are worth the consequences. Doing either allows her to stay involved in my marriage whether she is aware of it or not. I can't control what she does, but I can to an extent control how much time I spend worrying about her. I hope that with more time I reach a point where those things no longer matter to me.
    I'm choosing to be present in my marriage despite the pain, to be vulnerable despite the risk. The vulnerability is the hardest part for me. The word vulnerable itself is tough for me. I'm coming to terms with the fact that vulnerable doesn't mean naive. I'm now fully aware that the only thing I can control is what I do, but choosing not to be vulnerable will tie me to the past which I know can't be changed. It's not easy but it's my choice.
    I didn't choose for my husband to betray me, but what I do now is my choice. He and I had a conversation this morning when I reminded him what day today is. I was feeling sad just remembering exactly how I felt in those moments when the truth came out. He sees it differently and his words surprised me. He said it's a day we can celebrate. We're six months away from one of the worst days of our lives, six months down the road and in a much better place than we were that day. I guess it's all in how you choose to look at it. I can say that six months ago I never expected us to be where we are today. Six months ago, I was a sobbing, raging mess and I thought I would never know happiness again. Yet, here I am today. I still get sad, I still get angry and I still have work to do. But I do laugh, I do smile and I do have plenty of times where that awful night six months ago is the furthest thing from my mind.
    Hugs, ladies! I hope you all know how much it means to me to have this place to share my feelings.

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    1. Oh my goodness, Dandelion, that is just so incredible. "When is my time to be selfish and reckless?" When is that? When do I get to act without caution, without a second thought to the damage it will do to others? I know the answer now... It is any time I choose. I just choose not to." Wow. Just wow.

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  15. Dandelion. Omg you are my hero. Six months out and so much wisdom!!! Awesome. And yes yes yes to everything you said

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  16. Denise. As an artist can you turn this pain into creativity? Can you go out there and use your experience to create great wedding photography? I bet you can!!!

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  17. Ladies, sometimes I do not respond but please know that I am reading every word and I am so grateful for everything you all share and for those of you who respond to me directly. My H is going to his parents this weekend and I am going with my sister and a girlfriend to Wanderlust! A 5k, yoga and meditation - a triathlon for the spirit. Ahhhhhhhhhh .... My spirit says thank you
    :-)

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    1. A triathlon for the spirit. Sounds incredible. Enjoy, Melissa.

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  18. Wounded--Forgive me if I've forgotten, but are you two in MC? By the sounds of your posts it appears you need some explanations and h is just too scarred, timid, wants to forget, doesn't want to answer, whatever the excuse is. I really think discussions with a MC who is experienced in infidelity would help you two facilitate your discussions. MC or good MC's create safe places for just the kinds of discussions you obviously want to have with your h in order for you to heal. It sounds like he wants to help you but isn't sure about the way to go about doing it, you know the old "I don't want to hurt her anymore than I already have with this info".

    Also maybe set up a time ie day of the week, and time, and time frame for discussions (ie Wednesday nights at 7:30 for 1 hour) about the affair so he can prep for it, and you too, and not feel as though the subject is going to come up at some random time. This will help him put his guard down. And it will also help you to control your thoughts of the affair knowing there is a specific time your questions will be addressed. Also as the questions come to your head, write them down. You then give it some thought as to whether or not you really want or need an answer to that question or if it's really relevant to your healing.

    I know my husband was so gun shy in the beginning because I swear that damn affair talk would come out of the middle of nowhere!! He never knew when he would be deluged with questions. LOL poor baby, right :)

    This may work or may not. You have nothing to lose to try it right?

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    1. Really good advice, TH. A good marriage counsellor can create a safe space for each of you. Some insist on a "full disclosure" session, during which ALL the info gets outed. Can be harrowing. I ultimately decided I knew enough, thank you very much. But knowing that I had that option really helped.

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  19. Indeed Elle. We all have our limits on how much info we need. This cheater sounds like he needs a facilitator though. I know my h, who hates talking about feelings and fears and the affair felt the therapists office was a safe place for him.

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  20. Im taking this all in and i do have some things to share im dealing with a health aliment of my own on top of all this shit. Bad time or never a right time so the saying goes ... exhausted emotionally and now physically too ... sighhhhh ill keep reading and post back when im more up to it .... drained and trying to stay positive on all fronts. Thx ladies

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  21. See long response above. Im dealing with a health issue. Not as mobile as id like to be. Lots if time on my hands im managing. My H stepping up too ... im at my ultimatum vulnerability right not emotional and now physically too ... its for now not forever .... not a good time but is there ever a right time. .... trying to stay positive

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