I am trying to live by this... emphasize on TRYING...which is a daily struggle for me!
It has gotten better - once I started listening to this motto running through my head and taking it to heart.
Before - I was constantly searching facebook, searching the internet, tinder, match, anything on the net, any combination of names, trying to find him, pictures, proof, evidence or CHASE him. I would tell myself wake up do your work or you will lose your job, get out of bed, take care of the children, stop crying, go by McD for food so the kids had some in the backseat as I drove around the town looking for him. Searching, Chasing, desperate, crying, sad, lonely, and ALONE inside.
One day I woke up!! Trying Trying Trying Daily Daily Daily
Now - I try to live this motto. I get up on time everyday and do not stay up late chasing or searching for my husband. I take care of my boys and myself first. They are my priority! I feed them properly. I take them where they need to go. We laugh, watch tv together, exercise, and enjoy each other. I stopped Chasing my husband. I told him that I care about him and asked him to stop constantly. But I do not stop my living for him or my boys life's for him. I still beg him to chose us or let us go. But I do not drive around searching for where he went. By stopping these unhealthy activities and yes hard to do as I was starting to think I was a private investigator and should get a second job with the FBI...I am physically BETTER and emotionally b BETTER. I hold the cards. If I chose to let him go I will. If I chose to forgive him I will. It is my choice not his. I am better off alone then chasing him. If he wants to be stupid and give all this up that's on him. I am not going to let my life and my boys suffer. Yes, it is hard. Yes, I cry. Yes, I have not decided what to do. But yes, it's my choice and since I stopped chasing him I am better able to make a good sound choice not based on myself esteem: I will never find anyone as I am too fat (cuz I am not I lost that weight honey I am now 40lbs lighter). I can't do it without him (guess what babe I have been doing it without you for a long while you were out being stupid).
I stopped the CHASE and won the race!! The prize is self-respect, confidence, and prioritites.
I share with you as I know their are other good faithful wife's and mom's in my same situation who can relate in the stages of grief of the husband father fantasy. Thanks for reading. �� Have a great day!! No longer anonymous-- BEE
Bee, You sound like so many of us here -- trying, trying. But also getting better, inch by inch. I'm glad you're taking care of you and your boys. I'm so glad that you're taking back your own power in deciding what's next. And glad that you shared your struggle.
People who don't care about me or are emotionally unavailable are my form of crack. Honest to god. I know its nuts and I know I deserve someone who can love me. And I know why I do it. If I can convince one of these people to love (i.e save them) then I will have finally proven I am enough. I love myself better than I ever have in my life, but its easy to hear the old whispers in times of trial and rejection. Big kudos to me for recognizing that this is the two step I do in my sleep. I've not completely stopped chasing, because some of these people are in my life for the long term (my mom, my stbx). So there is still plenty of opportunity for old patterns to take over. But I'm getting better. And I'm recognizing it when I am starting down that path now. Recognizing at least.
Yes, you're getting better. And that's all you need to do right now. Just keep on getting better at it. My therapist put it this way: When you're first recovering from unhealthy behaviour, it's like walking through a puddle without boots. At first, you only realize your feet are wet after you've walked through. And you think, "damn, I did it again." Over time, you begin to notice your feet are wet as you're standing IN the puddle. And you think, "damn, I'm doing it again." With more time and work, you see a puddle up ahead and you have a choice: Am I going to get my feet wet? Or am I going to walk around this particular puddle?
My response is for the last 2 posts by Elle – the silence and not chasing people. I feel the silence from my husband is silently eating away at me. He has never really regretted what he did – he said “sorry” once – only because it was prompted by our MC, but I never got the sobs, the complete regret, the confession of “what a fool I’ve been” from my h. Never got it because he felt he was entitled to do what he did at the time. Yes. He has narcissistic traits. He will not go back to MC. He does not want to go over what he did as it makes him feel uncomfortable. He’s burying his head in the sand and not facing up to his total fuck up – and he can never be wrong!! I cannot talk to him face to face as he gets angry that I’m bringing his “fuck up” up again, yet as the weeks and months roll on, things pop up that I have questions about – and I need answers and I deserve answers, so we communicate via txt. It’s not what I want, but I at least get a response – not all my questions answered. He has txtd that he is embarrassed and ashamed – but that’s all I’ve ever gotten. I know- what a creep. I have been fortunate enough to have 2 older girlfriends, who have gone through betrayal, to talk to, and it’s great to be able to share with people who know both of us. They both took their husbands back in, only for their husbands to betray them again – now they are divorced. As much as I really appreciate venting to my 2 friends and sharing my experience with my wonderful sisters on this site – the one I need to speak to, my husband, wont! So. I have kept silent to the world, except to a select few of my friends and as others here at this site know – my silence is for the kids, but this silence is really pissing me off. These bastards just seem to cause so much destruction, yet do not become accountable for it – it’s as if through our silence they get off the hook - people at their work, in society etc do not get to see “the real” them. So despite this working through marriage part of my life, the rest of my life - my wonderful kids, my girlfriends who we have a great social life together is full of love and fun. Like Bee – this is the part of my life that I chase and enjoy – being around my kids and my GIRLFRIENDS who love me and want to be around me. (I highlight girlfriends as I personally don’t believe in having friends of the opposite sex, unlike my h who thrives on friends of the opposite sex). When we got back together, I told him he was to cease all contact with his whore – which in December when he wanted to come back and I put that boundary in place – I never heard back from him. Then is Jan when he asked to come back home again, I still stipulated he was to cease all contact which he then assured me he can give me all that I ask. Hmmmmm. Yet he still has his phone on lock and still has to travel interstate to where the whore is. Am I setting myself up for more heartache? One girlfriend says you have to give it a second go – you have nothing to lose by trying. The other says (after knowing my husband) “he’s always been a cocky bastard and…they don’t change”- well hers didn’t. I feel if he talks to me, that would help me/us heal and begin to put some trust back into him from me. He has a lot of issues from his years before me that have never been fixed and his denial of that is just adding to one messed up man. I’m getting tired of always being there to help him, yet now he’s selfishly avoiding helping me because he doesn’t want to feel uncomfortable. Any tips to get my h back into counselling? So I don’t look at it like I’m chasing him to be back in my life. I look on it as making him be responsible for what he signed up for in life – wife – marriage – kids – family!! Or maybe I am chasing the man that he used to be when we married, for my marriage, the love we had – but that’s not the same. It’s just a lot of hard work living with this man and as much as I wanted him back in my life, I’m finding it hard to navigate through the silence. Hugs to you all Gabby xo
Gabby I'm so sorry you have a h that doesn't understand what it means to talk through this mess! In the beginning my h didn't have words either, mostly I'm sorry but don't ask so many questions. Since we had six additional months of her constant harassment, my h and I didn't begin the real work of him becoming accountable for his actions. I took my time asking questions that helped me get through it and understand how it happened. My h changed his daily routine to include more us time than friends and his hobbies. But I also had to learn how to ask the right questions and to ask them at the right time. We learned early on that drinking and discussing his choice was not a good idea! The truth is your h just wants to move forward without feeling so stupid and apparently the mc made him feel worse and didn't help him understand how to help you! My suggestion is to look him in the eyes and tell him how you feel, be honest! Tell him because he refuses to discuss it maturely, it makes you feel...and tell him how you feel! It's hard getting them to open up because they are so embarrassed by their choices! Mine went through hell more than most because he was getting trashed by both women for those six extra months! But once I had the truth from his perspective that I compared to her version, then I was able to go back to repairing our relationship! Good luck and hugs. I know how hard this is!
Gabby, It sounds as if you're not getting what you need from him – not remorse, not conversation, not transparency. He's there in body but, in every other way, he's still unreachable. Is that what you want? What do you get out of a relationship like that? It sounds lonely as hell. Thing is, he's asking you to accept the worst thing he could have done to you. He's asking you to trust someone who has revealed himself to be untrustworthy. And he's not doing ANYTHING to show you that he's trying to change -- he won't go to MC, he won't explore his feelings of shame and guilt so that he can figure out why he did what he did, he won't allow you access to his phone. So what's the evidence that he really regrets what he did? What's the evidence that he will do everything he can to never hurt you again? It's just not there. You don't owe him a second chance. He has to deserve that. I don't agree with your girlfriend that they "never change" because some really do. But they do it by working really really hard. They do it by making themselves accountable. They do it by exploring those really painful feelings of shame and guilt. They make themselves uncomfortable rather than expecting you to prevent them from feeling bad. You can't "make" him be responsible for what he did. He's a grown man and he needs to hold himself accountable. And he's not. He's asking you to deal with all the pain around what he did and he's not willing to put himself out to help you, or to assure you, or to support you. Some guys do change. But I don't think your guy is one of them. I hope I'm wrong. But there's little evidence that I am.
Gabby I too pour my heart out on text as 1. I hate being vulnerable face to face and 2. Can never find the right moment to have these difficult conversations. My h has similar traits to yours I have similar traits to you, I love my social circle and my kids are my entire world I think I wrap myself up in the things/ people that make me happy. We can be happy without our h and they know and see that everyday.
When I look back over the last 5 years it's been sheer hell 2 d days and a whole lot of shit of healing in between. It's not been plain sailing for my h he's been faced with living separately from me and kids, he had to attend one of our best friends wedding on his own because it was not long after d day 2 and I refused to go ( not sure how he explained that one to everyone there) but all the same he must have felt like a jerk. He's attended some counselling he needs more, and gabby we can only suggest our h go to counselling dragging them kicking and screaming would be no good to anyone, our h really need to take responsibility for themselves. Like your h gabby mine too has his phone up his ass most of the time I really don't want to check it, if I'm resorting to checking then I may as well call it a day that's my opinion personally keeping tabs on him is something I don't want to do nor can I be bothered.. I come to the conclusion that if he fuks up again decides to cheat that is his decision I absolutely can't control that none of us can however we, me and you gabby can continue to practise self care, stick to our beliefs and value ourselves for being great mothers and wives if the h can't see what they have then they we are better of without them. Currently I maybe settling for less than I deserve, tomorrow is another day and life changes rapidly I'm weighing up my life daily, I by no means feel like I'm on an even keel.. gabby i hope your h can change everyone can he needs to know what he is set to lose if he doesn't.. you've had that separation so you know you can do it alone if need be. Gabby know that your not alone. It's lovely to hear from you .. let us know how you get on xxx
Sam, have you ever thought of getting a journal and writing back and forth to each other in it? I have not done that but I know they are popular for moms and their pre teen/teen daughters especially. It is just an idea. I think on some level it makes it easier for people to express themselves especially if the person is uncomfortable, ashamed, embarrassed, etc. I think talking about an affair is not easy for anyone but yes especially the wayward spouse. I know my husband hated it especially because I would cry, get emotional, upset and question him over and over. And he would a lot of times say he had no answers. Anything he said he would say would just be an excuse and that he was dumb and selfish. Not really answers I thought I would get but over and over that is what I heard. Over time it has gotten easier since we have learned to communicate better. I think after I got really upset and angry at him around 9-10 months after dday then things started to turn around. I think I got it all out and just cut loose on him. And yes he had to sit there and take it all and he did.
In the end for me there have been bumps in the road but it has been his words followed by actions that has allowed us to start to rebuild my trust. My husband is great at saying things well so I make a point at his actions need to back it up and over and over, not just when it seems to happen. He says often love is a verb and he treats it that way now. Hang in there, take care of yourself and trust your gut.
Hi Hopeful, from what you write about your h he seems very articulate, better at communicating than my h. A journal sounds great but I fear that my h just wouldn't be able to write down what he's feeling although I may be wrong and might just be undermining him a little. Maybe I will ask him how he feels about journaling. I'll let you know how it goes hopeful...
Can't hurt. Honestly is is hard know. For both of my kids they right and it helps them. It helped me too in the first year more to see and gather my thoughts. Maybe even for him to journal himself. It might be hard at first. But maybe over time it would help him. Some days mine would be lists of questions, a quote, words. When we were at an all time low after dday 2 I was a mess and losing it. Basically it was 5 months after dday and everything I kept probbing him about I was right even though he kept denying or acting clueless. Well I wrote him this really good letter. I wish I would have saved it. It broke through to him. Sometimes there is something about a word.
My husband is in the mental health field so in general he is strong in what I would call soft skills so he is better at it. Still did not stop him. Sometimes I am skeptical since he sounds so good when we talk usually. My therapist says no way could he carry on something fake for 2+ years the way he has. If it he should go to Hollywood!
Update and let us know if he agrees to maybe some alternative way to communicate.
This is where I am. Questioning wether alone is better for me at this time. I'm 6 mos out from Dday (but H's ended his A 7 years ago). Despite all the work we have both put into repair, I am so profoundly unhappy. I think the straw for me was his response to my question 'did you love her' and his response was 'I thought I did'. I knew it the moment he responded. It was the worst moment of my entire life. I was expecting (and needed) to hear 'it was just sex'.
My H is honestly trying to be a better man. H made the MC apts, H got more involved in church, H signed us up for Retrouvialle. H sends me love letters nearly daily. But, I have also discovered H was a very sick person for most of our marriage. No one but me would know it - not the kids, not his parents, not his co-workers or friends. And since Dday all my sleuthing has revealed the porn & weed were deeper addictions than I thought. That H had undiagnosed major depressive disorder, probably stemming from having an attachment disorder as a child. That his A was based on having someone to email complaints to about me (the horrible successful wife who was working 2 jobs, paying his bills and being the responsible one with our children). I can not get over the disgusting behavior. The fact that he was willing to ruin a family member's marriage in addition to his own. That he put both our unborn son's and my health at risk. That he lied to me about so many things. That he spent the $ I earned on hobbies (without asking me) as well as weed & porn.
I look at him now and after 21 years together (18 married) I no longer feel love. It has gone away gradually over the past few weeks/months. We have sex often and it feels great physically, but I no longer feel an emotional connection. I don't want to kiss him on the mouth. When H says 'I love you' I often don't reciprocate. The sad thing is this: I believe he loves me now more than ever. He says he is the luckiest man in the world. Tells me I am the love of his life and his best friend. That he wasn't to be together for the rest of our lives. I loved him so much for so long through all his anger and gas-lighting, but I think the more time passes since Dday and my new reality has sunk in (and after several months of reluctantly being on an anti-depressant) my feelings of love for him are a memory. Not sure how long to hang-on to see if this is a phase and maybe the feeling returns for me. Has anyone else been through this? For a long time I was 'staying for the kids' because I've read all the data. But now I'm worried that one day when they grow up they will realize I was miserable so they could be happy and I don't want them to feel guilt.
So, I am meeting my lawyer this week and will also try to get into my IC. I think I should be happy that H wants to put in the work and ended the A on his own 7 years ago. I guess I am glad to have the choice (as opposed to H not wanting reconciliation). But every time I look at him I see a total creep. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Advice?
Brown eyed girl Since October 24, 2014, I have tossed that question back and forth so many times that I just thought I would find out by staying with my h until I was sure that I could be happy with the man that I now have to look at for the rest of my life! I'm not sure when I finally knew that staying was the best choice for me and my h and no one else can make that determination for any of us except us. Take all the time you need to be sure of the man he is becoming and see how you feel in your heart! My h also resembles a total creep from time to time but he also looks like the man who I fell in love with so many years ago! I've noticed through the years our marriage has experienced many kinds of love! Those honeymoon experiences are vague memories as they became over shadowed by the raising of the children. One year we had the time of our lives with our first empty nest in 20 years. Then we moved into the first of our grandkids and having to share time and love with them. Our marriage took a huge hit when our daughter was going through a nasty custody battle with her babies daddy! I lived in a separate house for a year and that's when my h lost his mind in his affair! He was lonely and couldn't emotionally connect with me and our daughter at the time. This was so long ago in the sense of all that he and I have lived through together since then. I wish I had a crystal ball for your future but unfortunately, only you can decide that answer! Hugs! I know how hard it is to look at our man and just wonder...? fill in the blank for your situation!
Brown eyed girl, you mention some really positive points about your h behaviour now, nothing negative or worrying or suspicious. You seeing him as a 'creep' as you call it relate to his time prior to d day the porn the weed the resentment stems from before d day so if your basing your decision to leave on the past then yes it sounds like things were pretty horrible for you and your children but if your basing your decision on the here and now then my advice is to maybe give yourself more time, physically you are still able to have sex with him that's something, I'm wondering why you can't kiss him on the lips? Is that too intimate for you right now?..
For the record I hate my h quite often however I am overcoming milestones I never thought I could be it in my own time and this is the thing it has to be when your ready .. it's been 11 months since d day 2 and only recently have I been able to go out in public with him for a meal or to the shops, might sound silly but I couldn't do it so little steps for me. The more I feel comfortable with him the easier it gets to look him in the eyes and like him a little more. If I was to base my decision on his past behaviour I'd have moved out of the country but I'm basing everything on each day I see something better from him. Brown eyed girl I think ic would be really good for you, looking at your options and what is best for you. We change our mind often post betrayal the amount of times I've said I want rid is more than I say I want him but I change my mind that's the thing we're allowed to.. you'll be just fine with whatever you decide. Let us know how you get on xx
You are right. I really appreciate your insight. My IC says the same thing. Judge him on what he is doing now.
I AM judging him primarily on what he did a decade ago, partially because I just found out 5.5 mos ago and partially because even though he only had physical sex 1x he did it: a) when I was 8 mos pregnant & supporting him, b) with a married family member, c) their emailing continued intermittently for 4 years (during which time he & I got remarried in the church - 1st time was civil), d) I have come to find his pot & porn addictions were much worse than I ever knew e) there were also non-physical cyber A's (one with a co-worker and the other a complete stranger), f) he was a gas-lighter for years, g) etc., etc., etc...
So now all it takes is one little slip up (a petty argument, me finding porn once on his computer, etc.) and I'm ready to call the lawyer. Then H treats me wonderfully and my daughter cries that she wants us to be a family and I am back fighting for the marriage. I went to IC yesterday and she said I should sit with it for a bit (weeks to months). So, now my challenge is suppressing that darn amygdala and focusing on the things in life that make ME happy (and accept that my happiness is not dependent on my H). Easier written than done!
I am trying to live by this... emphasize on TRYING...which is a daily struggle for me!
ReplyDeleteIt has gotten better - once I started listening to this motto running through my head and taking it to heart.
Before - I was constantly searching facebook, searching the internet, tinder, match, anything on the net, any combination of names, trying to find him, pictures, proof, evidence or CHASE him. I would tell myself wake up do your work or you will lose your job, get out of bed, take care of the children, stop crying, go by McD for food so the kids had some in the backseat as I drove around the town looking for him. Searching, Chasing, desperate, crying, sad, lonely, and ALONE inside.
One day I woke up!! Trying Trying Trying Daily Daily Daily
Now - I try to live this motto. I get up on time everyday and do not stay up late chasing or searching for my husband. I take care of my boys and myself first. They are my priority! I feed them properly. I take them where they need to go. We laugh, watch tv together, exercise, and enjoy each other. I stopped Chasing my husband. I told him that I care about him and asked him to stop constantly. But I do not stop my living for him or my boys life's for him. I still beg him to chose us or let us go. But I do not drive around searching for where he went. By stopping these unhealthy activities and yes hard to do as I was starting to think I was a private investigator and should get a second job with the FBI...I am physically BETTER and emotionally b
BETTER. I hold the cards. If I chose to let him go I will. If I chose to forgive him I will. It is my choice not his. I am better off alone then chasing him. If he wants to be stupid and give all this up that's on him. I am not going to let my life and my boys suffer. Yes, it is hard. Yes, I cry. Yes, I have not decided what to do. But yes, it's my choice and since I stopped chasing him I am better able to make a good sound choice not based on myself esteem: I will never find anyone as I am too fat (cuz I am not I lost that weight honey I am now 40lbs lighter). I can't do it without him (guess what babe I have been doing it without you for a long while you were out being stupid).
I stopped the CHASE and won the race!! The prize is self-respect, confidence, and prioritites.
I share with you as I know their are other good faithful wife's and mom's in my same situation who can relate in the stages of grief of the husband father fantasy. Thanks for reading. �� Have a great day!!
No longer anonymous-- BEE
Bee,
DeleteYou sound like so many of us here -- trying, trying. But also getting better, inch by inch. I'm glad you're taking care of you and your boys. I'm so glad that you're taking back your own power in deciding what's next. And glad that you shared your struggle.
People who don't care about me or are emotionally unavailable are my form of crack. Honest to god. I know its nuts and I know I deserve someone who can love me. And I know why I do it. If I can convince one of these people to love (i.e save them) then I will have finally proven I am enough. I love myself better than I ever have in my life, but its easy to hear the old whispers in times of trial and rejection.
ReplyDeleteBig kudos to me for recognizing that this is the two step I do in my sleep. I've not completely stopped chasing, because some of these people are in my life for the long term (my mom, my stbx). So there is still plenty of opportunity for old patterns to take over. But I'm getting better. And I'm recognizing it when I am starting down that path now. Recognizing at least.
Yes, you're getting better. And that's all you need to do right now. Just keep on getting better at it.
DeleteMy therapist put it this way: When you're first recovering from unhealthy behaviour, it's like walking through a puddle without boots. At first, you only realize your feet are wet after you've walked through. And you think, "damn, I did it again." Over time, you begin to notice your feet are wet as you're standing IN the puddle. And you think, "damn, I'm doing it again." With more time and work, you see a puddle up ahead and you have a choice: Am I going to get my feet wet? Or am I going to walk around this particular puddle?
My response is for the last 2 posts by Elle – the silence and not chasing people.
ReplyDeleteI feel the silence from my husband is silently eating away at me. He has never really regretted what he did – he said “sorry” once – only because it was prompted by our MC, but I never got the sobs, the complete regret, the confession of “what a fool I’ve been” from my h. Never got it because he felt he was entitled to do what he did at the time. Yes. He has narcissistic traits. He will not go back to MC. He does not want to go over what he did as it makes him feel uncomfortable. He’s burying his head in the sand and not facing up to his total fuck up – and he can never be wrong!! I cannot talk to him face to face as he gets angry that I’m bringing his “fuck up” up again, yet as the weeks and months roll on, things pop up that I have questions about – and I need answers and I deserve answers, so we communicate via txt. It’s not what I want, but I at least get a response – not all my questions answered. He has txtd that he is embarrassed and ashamed – but that’s all I’ve ever gotten. I know- what a creep. I have been fortunate enough to have 2 older girlfriends, who have gone through betrayal, to talk to, and it’s great to be able to share with people who know both of us. They both took their husbands back in, only for their husbands to betray them again – now they are divorced. As much as I really appreciate venting to my 2 friends and sharing my experience with my wonderful sisters on this site – the one I need to speak to, my husband, wont! So. I have kept silent to the world, except to a select few of my friends and as others here at this site know – my silence is for the kids, but this silence is really pissing me off. These bastards just seem to cause so much destruction, yet do not become accountable for it – it’s as if through our silence they get off the hook - people at their work, in society etc do not get to see “the real” them. So despite this working through marriage part of my life, the rest of my life - my wonderful kids, my girlfriends who we have a great social life together is full of love and fun. Like Bee – this is the part of my life that I chase and enjoy – being around my kids and my GIRLFRIENDS who love me and want to be around me. (I highlight girlfriends as I personally don’t believe in having friends of the opposite sex, unlike my h who thrives on friends of the opposite sex). When we got back together, I told him he was to cease all contact with his whore – which in December when he wanted to come back and I put that boundary in place – I never heard back from him. Then is Jan when he asked to come back home again, I still stipulated he was to cease all contact which he then assured me he can give me all that I ask. Hmmmmm. Yet he still has his phone on lock and still has to travel interstate to where the whore is. Am I setting myself up for more heartache? One girlfriend says you have to give it a second go – you have nothing to lose by trying. The other says (after knowing my husband) “he’s always been a cocky bastard and…they don’t change”- well hers didn’t. I feel if he talks to me, that would help me/us heal and begin to put some trust back into him from me. He has a lot of issues from his years before me that have never been fixed and his denial of that is just adding to one messed up man. I’m getting tired of always being there to help him, yet now he’s selfishly avoiding helping me because he doesn’t want to feel uncomfortable. Any tips to get my h back into counselling?
So I don’t look at it like I’m chasing him to be back in my life. I look on it as making him be responsible for what he signed up for in life – wife – marriage – kids – family!! Or maybe I am chasing the man that he used to be when we married, for my marriage, the love we had – but that’s not the same. It’s just a lot of hard work living with this man and as much as I wanted him back in my life, I’m finding it hard to navigate through the silence.
Hugs to you all
Gabby xo
Gabby
DeleteI'm so sorry you have a h that doesn't understand what it means to talk through this mess! In the beginning my h didn't have words either, mostly I'm sorry but don't ask so many questions. Since we had six additional months of her constant harassment, my h and I didn't begin the real work of him becoming accountable for his actions. I took my time asking questions that helped me get through it and understand how it happened. My h changed his daily routine to include more us time than friends and his hobbies. But I also had to learn how to ask the right questions and to ask them at the right time. We learned early on that drinking and discussing his choice was not a good idea! The truth is your h just wants to move forward without feeling so stupid and apparently the mc made him feel worse and didn't help him understand how to help you! My suggestion is to look him in the eyes and tell him how you feel, be honest! Tell him because he refuses to discuss it maturely, it makes you feel...and tell him how you feel! It's hard getting them to open up because they are so embarrassed by their choices! Mine went through hell more than most because he was getting trashed by both women for those six extra months! But once I had the truth from his perspective that I compared to her version, then I was able to go back to repairing our relationship! Good luck and hugs. I know how hard this is!
Gabby,
DeleteIt sounds as if you're not getting what you need from him – not remorse, not conversation, not transparency. He's there in body but, in every other way, he's still unreachable. Is that what you want? What do you get out of a relationship like that? It sounds lonely as hell.
Thing is, he's asking you to accept the worst thing he could have done to you. He's asking you to trust someone who has revealed himself to be untrustworthy. And he's not doing ANYTHING to show you that he's trying to change -- he won't go to MC, he won't explore his feelings of shame and guilt so that he can figure out why he did what he did, he won't allow you access to his phone. So what's the evidence that he really regrets what he did? What's the evidence that he will do everything he can to never hurt you again? It's just not there.
You don't owe him a second chance. He has to deserve that.
I don't agree with your girlfriend that they "never change" because some really do. But they do it by working really really hard. They do it by making themselves accountable. They do it by exploring those really painful feelings of shame and guilt. They make themselves uncomfortable rather than expecting you to prevent them from feeling bad.
You can't "make" him be responsible for what he did. He's a grown man and he needs to hold himself accountable. And he's not. He's asking you to deal with all the pain around what he did and he's not willing to put himself out to help you, or to assure you, or to support you.
Some guys do change. But I don't think your guy is one of them. I hope I'm wrong. But there's little evidence that I am.
Gabby I too pour my heart out on text as 1. I hate being vulnerable face to face and 2. Can never find the right moment to have these difficult conversations. My h has similar traits to yours I have similar traits to you, I love my social circle and my kids are my entire world I think I wrap myself up in the things/ people that make me happy. We can be happy without our h and they know and see that everyday.
ReplyDeleteWhen I look back over the last 5 years it's been sheer hell 2 d days and a whole lot of shit of healing in between. It's not been plain sailing for my h he's been faced with living separately from me and kids, he had to attend one of our best friends wedding on his own because it was not long after d day 2 and I refused to go ( not sure how he explained that one to everyone there) but all the same he must have felt like a jerk. He's attended some counselling he needs more, and gabby we can only suggest our h go to counselling dragging them kicking and screaming would be no good to anyone, our h really need to take responsibility for themselves. Like your h gabby mine too has his phone up his ass most of the time I really don't want to check it, if I'm resorting to checking then I may as well call it a day that's my opinion personally keeping tabs on him is something I don't want to do nor can I be bothered.. I come to the conclusion that if he fuks up again decides to cheat that is his decision I absolutely can't control that none of us can however we, me and you gabby can continue to practise self care, stick to our beliefs and value ourselves for being great mothers and wives if the h can't see what they have then they we are better of without them. Currently I maybe settling for less than I deserve, tomorrow is another day and life changes rapidly I'm weighing up my life daily, I by no means feel like I'm on an even keel.. gabby i hope your h can change everyone can he needs to know what he is set to lose if he doesn't.. you've had that separation so you know you can do it alone if need be. Gabby know that your not alone. It's lovely to hear from you .. let us know how you get on xxx
Sam, have you ever thought of getting a journal and writing back and forth to each other in it? I have not done that but I know they are popular for moms and their pre teen/teen daughters especially. It is just an idea. I think on some level it makes it easier for people to express themselves especially if the person is uncomfortable, ashamed, embarrassed, etc. I think talking about an affair is not easy for anyone but yes especially the wayward spouse. I know my husband hated it especially because I would cry, get emotional, upset and question him over and over. And he would a lot of times say he had no answers. Anything he said he would say would just be an excuse and that he was dumb and selfish. Not really answers I thought I would get but over and over that is what I heard. Over time it has gotten easier since we have learned to communicate better. I think after I got really upset and angry at him around 9-10 months after dday then things started to turn around. I think I got it all out and just cut loose on him. And yes he had to sit there and take it all and he did.
ReplyDeleteIn the end for me there have been bumps in the road but it has been his words followed by actions that has allowed us to start to rebuild my trust. My husband is great at saying things well so I make a point at his actions need to back it up and over and over, not just when it seems to happen. He says often love is a verb and he treats it that way now. Hang in there, take care of yourself and trust your gut.
Hi Hopeful, from what you write about your h he seems very articulate, better at communicating than my h. A journal sounds great but I fear that my h just wouldn't be able to write down what he's feeling although I may be wrong and might just be undermining him a little. Maybe I will ask him how he feels about journaling. I'll let you know how it goes hopeful...
ReplyDeleteThank you xx
Can't hurt. Honestly is is hard know. For both of my kids they right and it helps them. It helped me too in the first year more to see and gather my thoughts. Maybe even for him to journal himself. It might be hard at first. But maybe over time it would help him. Some days mine would be lists of questions, a quote, words. When we were at an all time low after dday 2 I was a mess and losing it. Basically it was 5 months after dday and everything I kept probbing him about I was right even though he kept denying or acting clueless. Well I wrote him this really good letter. I wish I would have saved it. It broke through to him. Sometimes there is something about a word.
DeleteMy husband is in the mental health field so in general he is strong in what I would call soft skills so he is better at it. Still did not stop him. Sometimes I am skeptical since he sounds so good when we talk usually. My therapist says no way could he carry on something fake for 2+ years the way he has. If it he should go to Hollywood!
Update and let us know if he agrees to maybe some alternative way to communicate.
This is where I am. Questioning wether alone is better for me at this time. I'm 6 mos out from Dday (but H's ended his A 7 years ago). Despite all the work we have both put into repair, I am so profoundly unhappy. I think the straw for me was his response to my question 'did you love her' and his response was 'I thought I did'. I knew it the moment he responded. It was the worst moment of my entire life. I was expecting (and needed) to hear 'it was just sex'.
ReplyDeleteMy H is honestly trying to be a better man. H made the MC apts, H got more involved in church, H signed us up for Retrouvialle. H sends me love letters nearly daily. But, I have also discovered H was a very sick person for most of our marriage. No one but me would know it - not the kids, not his parents, not his co-workers or friends. And since Dday all my sleuthing has revealed the porn & weed were deeper addictions than I thought. That H had undiagnosed major depressive disorder, probably stemming from having an attachment disorder as a child. That his A was based on having someone to email complaints to about me (the horrible successful wife who was working 2 jobs, paying his bills and being the responsible one with our children). I can not get over the disgusting behavior. The fact that he was willing to ruin a family member's marriage in addition to his own. That he put both our unborn son's and my health at risk. That he lied to me about so many things. That he spent the $ I earned on hobbies (without asking me) as well as weed & porn.
I look at him now and after 21 years together (18 married) I no longer feel love. It has gone away gradually over the past few weeks/months. We have sex often and it feels great physically, but I no longer feel an emotional connection. I don't want to kiss him on the mouth. When H says 'I love you' I often don't reciprocate. The sad thing is this: I believe he loves me now more than ever. He says he is the luckiest man in the world. Tells me I am the love of his life and his best friend. That he wasn't to be together for the rest of our lives. I loved him so much for so long through all his anger and gas-lighting, but I think the more time passes since Dday and my new reality has sunk in (and after several months of reluctantly being on an anti-depressant) my feelings of love for him are a memory. Not sure how long to hang-on to see if this is a phase and maybe the feeling returns for me. Has anyone else been through this? For a long time I was 'staying for the kids' because I've read all the data. But now I'm worried that one day when they grow up they will realize I was miserable so they could be happy and I don't want them to feel guilt.
So, I am meeting my lawyer this week and will also try to get into my IC. I think I should be happy that H wants to put in the work and ended the A on his own 7 years ago. I guess I am glad to have the choice (as opposed to H not wanting reconciliation). But every time I look at him I see a total creep. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Advice?
Brown eyed girl
DeleteSince October 24, 2014, I have tossed that question back and forth so many times that I just thought I would find out by staying with my h until I was sure that I could be happy with the man that I now have to look at for the rest of my life! I'm not sure when I finally knew that staying was the best choice for me and my h and no one else can make that determination for any of us except us. Take all the time you need to be sure of the man he is becoming and see how you feel in your heart! My h also resembles a total creep from time to time but he also looks like the man who I fell in love with so many years ago! I've noticed through the years our marriage has experienced many kinds of love! Those honeymoon experiences are vague memories as they became over shadowed by the raising of the children. One year we had the time of our lives with our first empty nest in 20 years. Then we moved into the first of our grandkids and having to share time and love with them. Our marriage took a huge hit when our daughter was going through a nasty custody battle with her babies daddy! I lived in a separate house for a year and that's when my h lost his mind in his affair! He was lonely and couldn't emotionally connect with me and our daughter at the time. This was so long ago in the sense of all that he and I have lived through together since then. I wish I had a crystal ball for your future but unfortunately, only you can decide that answer! Hugs! I know how hard it is to look at our man and just wonder...? fill in the blank for your situation!
Brown eyed girl, you mention some really positive points about your h behaviour now, nothing negative or worrying or suspicious. You seeing him as a 'creep' as you call it relate to his time prior to d day the porn the weed the resentment stems from before d day so if your basing your decision to leave on the past then yes it sounds like things were pretty horrible for you and your children but if your basing your decision on the here and now then my advice is to maybe give yourself more time, physically you are still able to have sex with him that's something, I'm wondering why you can't kiss him on the lips? Is that too intimate for you right now?..
ReplyDeleteFor the record I hate my h quite often however I am overcoming milestones I never thought I could be it in my own time and this is the thing it has to be when your ready .. it's been 11 months since d day 2 and only recently have I been able to go out in public with him for a meal or to the shops, might sound silly but I couldn't do it so little steps for me. The more I feel comfortable with him the easier it gets to look him in the eyes and like him a little more. If I was to base my decision on his past behaviour I'd have moved out of the country but I'm basing everything on each day I see something better from him. Brown eyed girl I think ic would be really good for you, looking at your options and what is best for you. We change our mind often post betrayal the amount of times I've said I want rid is more than I say I want him but I change my mind that's the thing we're allowed to.. you'll be just fine with whatever you decide. Let us know how you get on xx
Hi Sam A,
DeleteYou are right. I really appreciate your insight. My IC says the same thing. Judge him on what he is doing now.
I AM judging him primarily on what he did a decade ago, partially because I just found out 5.5 mos ago and partially because even though he only had physical sex 1x he did it: a) when I was 8 mos pregnant & supporting him, b) with a married family member, c) their emailing continued intermittently for 4 years (during which time he & I got remarried in the church - 1st time was civil), d) I have come to find his pot & porn addictions were much worse than I ever knew e) there were also non-physical cyber A's (one with a co-worker and the other a complete stranger), f) he was a gas-lighter for years, g) etc., etc., etc...
So now all it takes is one little slip up (a petty argument, me finding porn once on his computer, etc.) and I'm ready to call the lawyer. Then H treats me wonderfully and my daughter cries that she wants us to be a family and I am back fighting for the marriage. I went to IC yesterday and she said I should sit with it for a bit (weeks to months). So, now my challenge is suppressing that darn amygdala and focusing on the things in life that make ME happy (and accept that my happiness is not dependent on my H). Easier written than done!