Monday, August 21, 2017

The strength it takes

There's a pervasive cultural myth that strong women leave cheaters and weak women stay. Staying is for suckers, for chumps, for women too pathetic to demand respect.
Thing is, I don't know a single woman who has stayed in a marriage after infidelity who fits that description. Quite the contrary. The women I know who've stayed do so for a lot of reasons, none of which are that they're too weak to leave.
At first I stayed because I was exhausted and knew that I couldn't create the calm and stability that my three children would have needed to deal with their parents' separation. Being able to consider my children's needs isn't weakness. It's a mother's strength.
I stayed in part because I had made a vow to my husband – "in good and in bad". This fell firmly under the "bad" category. It isn't weakness to stay true to wedding vows, even when a partner has failed to. I took those vows seriously. And I knew that, at points in our marriage, we'd be tested. To honour those vows takes strength.
And I continued to stay because I could see my husband working hard to figure out why he'd risked everything that mattered to him, to find a way through this mess to redeem himself, to learn how to be a better man when he was lost. To be patient, to allow trust to regain a foothold takes strength.
But perhaps, most of all, I used that time to begin to heal. To do the hard work myself of figuring out why I had lost myself to some extent in my marriage, why I had failed myself. With no healthy marriage as my blueprint (my parents' marriage was marred with addiction and infidelity), I had thought that my job was to be supportive, to compromise, to accommodate myself, to, I dare say, abandon "me" in pursuit of "us". To untangle my healthy ideas of love and marriage and carve out a place for myself in this "new" marriage took determination and patience. And a whole lot of strength.
Thing is, those on the outside have no idea what's going on within the marriage. I hear it a lot from Other Women, bitter because the guy whose words they believed goes back to his wife and his marriage and, they're convinced, suffers no real consequences for his behaviour.
I hear it from people who know the rumours about someone's infidelity and yet see the couple at social gatherings, sitting together, laughing together. Together. "Why does she put up with that?" they've whispered to me with no knowledge that I've "put up with that" too.
What people don't see is the work it takes to get there. What the Other Women don't understand is the effort that goes into rebuilding a marriage that has been shattered by infidelity.
I don't know a single marriage in which a guy who cheated (where his wife knows he's cheated) returns to the fold and is welcomed with no questions asked.
Recently, a man who cheated on his wife posted on this site, suggesting that it would be "better" for his wife if he simply walked away so she's not reminded of the pain he put her through. This guy wasn't interested in doing the work of helping her heal. He just wanted her to be over it already and, since she wasn't, he thought it would be helpful to exit stage left so she didn't have to think about it. Doesn't that strike you as cowardice? A guy who would rather not have to face his own moral failing every day when he sees the pain in her eyes? Sure sounds like that to me. She's not asking him to spare her the pain of his betrayal (a bit late for that, buddy), she's asking him to walk through it with her. She's strong enough to face it. Is he?
And that's the truth of a marriage after betrayal. It's about facing that pain, every single moment of the day. It's about working hard to keep your heart open when every ounce of your being wants to close it off to further pain. It's about showing up at events with your husband, possibly even laughing together, and then going home and sobbing into your pillow because everything hurts.
Don't tell me it doesn't take strength to get up each morning and fight your way through the day while he's at work, sometimes where the OW works too. Don't tell me it isn't strength that gets us to our own jobs, to parent-teacher meetings, to the grocery store. Or that it isn't Herculean not to openly flinch when every bloody song in the mall where you're shopping for rainboots for your kid reminds you of what he did.
And this, of course, isn't to say that leaving is weakness. Rather it is to say that doing what feels right for us – especially when the world has strong opinions about what we should do – takes incredible strength. To battle that inner narrative that tells us we've betrayed ourselves for staying, to fight a culture that insists that the only acceptable response to a cheater is to kick him to the curb, to ignore the cries of the "once a cheater, always a cheater" brigade, takes a strength that most of us never knew we had.
And until we realize that, statistically, most women choose to stay, we didn't know how much strength the women around us have. Strength we don't always see because women are so good at hiding our pain.
In the end, we have nothing to prove to anyone but ourselves. And what he have to prove to ourselves is that we followed the path that was right for us. Our reasons for taking one path over another are our own. But they are legitimate. They matter.
Weakness is letting others dictate our life choices. It's abandoning ourselves to be who others want us to be.
Strength? It's what you see every day in the mirror when you straighten your shoulders and turn to face a world that thinks it knows what you should do and decide instead to do what's right for you. Whatever that is.

54 comments:

  1. Thank you, Elle, for putting this into words. I find that while I've made peace with my decision to stay, I struggle with how I feel I would be judged if others knew.

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    1. Dandelion,
      Those internal messages are hard to fight back against. But you can fight back. When you find yourself feeling that niggling little shame about staying, ask yourself what that's about. Challenge it. Where is it coming from? Exactly WHO thinks you should leave? What makes leaving more powerful than staying? Is punishing a cheater by leaving more a show of strength than staying and holding him accountable for what he did?

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    2. Elle, thanks for your response. You always seem to have the right response. Power and strength seem to be a recurrent theme for me in therapy. If I'm honest, I think I've always felt that I gave away some of my power when I got married. I was very career driven and was headed down a specific path when I met my husband. I had reached a point where I felt I would probably not get married and have children. My career path changed due to an injury and I always felt some regret from that. I stayed with the same organization but in an administrative role. We got married and after about 3 years decided to have children. I still focused a lot on my career after my daughter's birth but I was juggling it all. I was "super Mom". Shortly after my son was born, I got a promotion I had been wanting. But my focus started to shift and I realized that my career was no longer the most important thing to me. My work has never suffered but I prioritize thing differently now. Somehow I think I've translated that in my brain as losing myself, giving up my strength in the process.
      I've had multiple conversations with my therapist on how I've always felt I had no strength or power in this situation. I never confronted the OW face to face. I didn't attempt to destroy her marriage by telling her husband. That made me feel weak. I allowed my husband to stay after he humiliated me. I didn't embarrass him publicly my telling everyone what he did. In my mind, I've translated those things as weakness, too. So I guess my idea of strength has equated to tangible acts that fit society's idea of what you "should" do when you are betrayed. I'm learning here that strength comes in many ways. It's not always loud and visible. There's strength in choosing to extend compassion and forgiveness to someone who hurt you (when they've shown you they deserve it). There's strength in having the power to hurt someone else, yet choosing not to. I guess I do need to spend some more time thinking about where my ideas on strength come from.

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    3. Yes, it's odd, isn't it? So much of our cultural ideas of strength involve power over another. Power to humiliate. Power to demean. Power to control. And yet when I see that sort of power used in that way, it sickens me. It doesn't seem like power but like cruelty. Conversely, when I see someone exercise self-control, or to take the high road, or to behave in a way that's respectful of self but also of other, it's a different kind of power. It seems more authentic. And, I suspect, more long-lasting. This isn't to say that leaving a marriage isn't also a show of power. It's the "why" that's where the power lies. If we're doing it as a show for others, then it's not really power, is it? It's a desire for praise or approval. But however we respond, if it comes from our own desire, then that is genuine power.

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  2. I really like this post. I am one of the women who kicked their husband to the curb the day I found out. I just lost my job due to their affair and I had my two kids and my granddaughter to think about. So I went into the garage and pulled out every tool of his that I could find and sold them on the front lawn. The next day he was back home asking for forgiveness and then he slept with her again a week later, then he tried to take his own life because of the pain that he had caused me again. The pain was so awful but I didn't kick him out this time. The OW knew how much pain I was in and didn't care. She was after the big prize of destroying our marriage. People we knew would whisper about us. Telling my husband the day I kicked him out that if this was what he really wanted then don't look back. They told him that his kids would adjust. Making me out to be some horrible person. Not knowing what the truth really was and not knowing that he was sick at the time. These people who were giving him this so called advice have all had numerous marriages or have broken up someone else's marriage. I don't regret the reactions I have had towards these people but sometimes I wished I had handled my husband and the whole situation differently. One of my Facebook friends right after I found out about my husband had posted that her husband was talking to some woman he knew from high school and thought that he was having an affair. Everyone that posted on her page told her that they would dump their husband if that happened to them. Kick him to the curb and don't look back. I told her to talk to him and don't do anything until you have some answers and don't do anything while you are so angry you can't think straight. As far as I know she took my advice. She tried calling me while I was in the process of moving across the country and I never got to talk to her. We started over in a new state far far away from the OW so that we can continue to rebuild our marriage. I don't see it as a different marriage because of the circumstances of how the affair began. I see it as picking up the pieces from where it shattered and fixing what was wrong with him and myself to make us a stronger united couple. We had a very strong marriage to begin with but it didn't stop the OW in trying to destroy it because it's what she had always fantasized from the time she was 16. The end of this month will be 2 years and sometimes I can't believe what we have gone through and that we are still together.

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    1. Wow, you have been through a helluva time the past two years. But here you are -- still standing. Amazing. I hope you're proud of what you've done. And I think your response to your Facebook friend was far more helpful than all the "kick him out" stuff that only tends to make us feel pathetic.

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  3. Right on Elle.
    I'm having a hard week as husbands away for work with (as he says) "meeting lots of gorgeous women". Even though I barely talk to him anymore as I've had to remove my feelings for him because of all his lies and I'm just over him...Yep the strength it takes for me to firstly not punch him up, but secondly be here for my children is amazing. They know I am not happy with him at the moment - I've let my strength to hide my emotions slip, but hey - somethings gotta give after years of hiding my emotions from his criticism. Yes I have strong days and not so strong days. Not sure what he'll be like when he's back.
    Hugs
    Gabby xo

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    1. Gabby, What an ass. How incredibly disrespectful and hurtful to speak like that after what he's done. Do you point out to him, calmly, when he's being disrespectful? If not, I'd urge you to. A simple, "that's disrespectful to me and our family" and then...nothing more.

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  4. Today marks the 2 year anniversary of Dday #1. It happens to fall on our son's birthday. I actually almost forgot about it until I was reminded by the "On This Day" photo app. I chose not to say anything this year. I want to move forward. I'm tired of dwelling on what happened. While I understand that I shouldn't forget, not that I ever could, but that I need to focus on the good things, the future, our life together moving forward. The positive, like that today signifies one of the most beautiful gifts given to me. This takes strength. I'm a warrior. I will continue to fight for my marriage, my family, my life. Every day it gets better, because we are a team, moving toward a better future together.

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    1. Yay! Two years is fantastic. Took me a whole lot longer than that.

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  5. For reasons I don't understand now, we had to stay in touch with the ow for a week after dday.

    And yes Elle, you are absolutely right . She did tell my h that she was the only one suffering. She said that I seemed strong and fine (of course I would not cry infront of her). She told him well your wife didn't leave you and your marriage is fine.

    She has no idea of the pain she caused. She really is the enemy.

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    1. My husband did that too. I had put a block on her phone so that she couldn't bother him while he was recuperating from his suicide attempt She got by the block by getting a phone card and was emailing him supposedly with questions regarding work. We only worked there a few months and the affair lasted less then 10 days. By this time he didn't work there anymore. But she would whine and cry to him until he threatened her with a restraining order. I still feel like she is the enemy and an unstable one at that.

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    2. A lot of these women are unstable. Healthy women tend not to sleep with married men.

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  6. Wow, Elle - once again your words moved me to tears, the big, sobbing, feeling understood kind...in a good way, ya know? Your gift of words to all of us, and do yourself as you continue to heal, is amazing. As I have recently posted here, I have had a "change of heart" so to speak when it comes to my own healing...that I truly am responsible for me, whether husband continues to work with OW or not, whether we stay married or not - regardless of those situations I still have to heal. I owe it to myself to LET myself heal, too. I am still struck many times a day with questions of has he really changed, can I believe him, can I trust him, what if, what if, what if, or the past pain of knowing what he said to her, did with her, said about me - even if it was all in a fog. But what I have noticed about me in the past few days is a greater level of KINDNESS towards myself and more gentle reminders to let go, that it is ok to let go, that i can't control him, that he is responsible for his own choices, just like I am responsible for mine. And right now - letting go, being kind to ME, allowing myself to live in the present....and reminding myself that I am STRONG for staying...it has been a shift.

    And like you have said - I do not stand here and judge any of our choices - whether we stay or go, whether we kick him out or not, however we choose to heal is OK. we are ALL OK.

    Thinking of everyone today and praying for peace, even if just for a moment. (Hugs)

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    1. Jules,
      Your post made ME feel understood too. We are OK! I agree with everything you said. As Regena's post below reminds us too... we get to keep the fruits of our labor on ourselves no matter what happens to our H or what choices he makes. Stay kind to yourself. I try very hard to keep doing the same and that has made a huge difference for me. Hugs!

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    2. Ann - so glad I could make you feel understood, too. Knowing my words touch someone else helps me keep moving forward on this path of recovery. It's hard - you all know it's a daily, well, minute to minute decision to make the best choice, to be the best you can be, to allow yourself to heal, to make the better choice not to check up on husband when it's all you want to do. I had some dreams last night about him and the OW and what my fears are that they are still doing. It's a part of life - they still work together, so my dreams weren't centered around secret meetings, but just regular times in their day they could be talking, hanging out. But I think it is a part of the hard work I have been doing just in the last few days and my brain is processing. What I can say is I woke up more peaceful after a night of dreams than I have in the past. It gives me hope that maybe the hard work I am doing might actually help.

      I think that there will always be a part of me that has this fear...fear of what I may never know about the past, fear of what I might be missing now, but just working on he fear I can control - of my actions and reactions and how I handle myself - that has already made a huge difference. It's not always easy and I have a LONG way to go, but I am hopeful that I will continue to see change in myself, and as that change comes, I will see more change in my husband and how he shares and relates to me.

      Thanks ladies - hugs for a Wednesday!

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    3. Jules, that's it exactly. That's the only thing we can ever really do is keep ourselves whole. As my friend puts it, I can only keep my side of the street clean. It's a bit of a relief, isn't it?

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  7. Never in a million years did I ever think I would stay if I was cheated on.I WAS one of those people who judged a woman for not kicking him to the curb. Until it happened to me. As I learned from my 18 year old daughter at the time, "Nothing is black and white". I was worried my kids would lose respect for me if I stayed. In reality they respect me even more. I also do too. It does take strength and a lot of people do give up or dont even try for that matter. It's 4 yrs and in a much better place still together.

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    1. Miserableinmd, I think most of us were that woman. "I'd never stay!" I used to say. Uh...sure.
      Reality tends to shake those certainties up. And I'm so glad your kids can see the strength it has taken you to stay and rebuild a marriage. That's a powerful lesson to them -- that people can be redeemable.

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  8. After I found out that my husband was cheating, I immediately started to work on myself since I knew that to fight this I had to gain my resolve and strength back. I should have gone to therapy years ago but I sure couldn't change that now.
    After many months of therapy I finally gave my husband the choice of staying and going to couples therapy or I was moving on after 40 years of marriage, 3 daughters & 5 grandsons at the time. He decided to take his punches and work on this marriage. We went for almost 2 years so I knew that he was in this with me again and I am so glad that he did. We had the best, I believe, 3 years of our lives together before he tragically died from a fall while we were on vacation in our beloved Italy. Even though I lost him twice I will never regret my decision to work on our marriage. The other woman actually came to the funeral from DC to CO. My husband was a pilot and commuted to DC for trips. When he retired in 2014 he never returned there. His hoho even wrote my oldest daughter a letter stating how she very much wanted to meet her. My daughter was freshly grieving her father and when this woman did this I wanted to punch her out. I calmed down enough to just let my daughter tell her to leave her alone after her shock of her father's cheating. Life is strange but I will never regret the decision I made to work really hard on our marriage. I have since met another widower who knows my story. I feel as though the work on myself carries on in this relationship too. That is a good thing.

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    1. Regena thank you for sharing your story, I'm so pleased you and your h did the hard work to rebuild your marriage before he passed away. You sound like a strong lady with lots of life experience to offer. Please continue to post and let us know how you get on with the next chapter of your life.. big hugs xxx

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    2. Regena,
      Your post resonated with me for several reasons. My H is a pilot too, so you had me there. Also, I have wondered a lot about how all of this will feel if/when my H dies. I know I feel very close to him at this point. I feel good about our work on our marriage and on ourselves. I guess my ultimate goal is to arrive at that terrible place of ultimate loss (if he goes first) and to be proud of what I did. How I loved him but also myself. My ultimate goal is to arrive where you are, so thank you for telling me that it's possible. None of us know how much time any of us has, I hate that some of our time was spent on this pain, but I am so grateful to have had this year of closeness. I'm so sorry for the loss of your husband and also uplifted that you can carry your growth into your next relationship. This work that we all do on ourselves is ours to keep! I really felt that would be true. Thank you for affirming that.

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    3. Regena, Thank you so much for posting your story. You're incredible. And you're right -- what you've gained by healing yourself will carry on into all other relationships. You've had so much grief to work through but it sounds as though you've come out the other side.

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    4. Regina,
      My pilot husband had 2 affairs with FAs as a brand new captain. And after we finally went thru 6 mos of eenie meanie who do I pick, he decided me and our 2 young children was the way to go. That really sent the single FA searching for a capt with a pension into a frenzy. After dumping a kit bag full of affair souvenirs in our garage, the letter included gladly shared that she hadn't been his first. At that point I didn't care if he went or stayed. Now we've got 46 yrs of marriage, and 6 yrs into retirement, 2 grandkids, and my health issues resulting from cancer treatment. The marriage is different, traveling was a blessing, but I know I would miss him terribly if he goes first. Some days I look at him and can't believe he actually did what he did almost 30 yrs ago. They say you only get wisdom thru pain and the fac that your daughter didn't get to talk to him is so sad. But no surprise the OW reached out to her, those kinds of women don't respect boundaries and lack respect and feel entitled. I'm sorry for your loss.

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  9. Elle, thank you for this, especially: "Weakness is letting others dictate our life choices".

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  10. This is LLP, Anon, I like your resolve. I like your reasoning. I wish I could think like you, matter of fact. I just can't. Your H is one lucky man to still have a future with you. Honestly I'm 63 years old now and look at him as a companion not a husband anymore. I received a sum of money from my dad's estate. I paid off our house, car. I told him I would not spend the remainder of the money on "us". He could not be trusted to have my back. He proved he could be dissuaded easily. It took strength to say that when I'm still trying to recover. I ask him how he felt about me not trusting him, he said sad. He said he understood. I have learned to look out for myself. Not because I want to because I have to. I would have never said some of the things I say to him now prior to the affair. We are two different people now. We are better people. Since he has opened up, I found out I really don't like him as much as I thought because of his character flaws. His morals expand and contract as the circumstances suit him best. My eyes are wide open now. There things I love about him but not like before and that is a good thing. It all takes strength every bit of it. To think like this is the only way I can survive and still live with him and keep my sanity. So I guess he is plan B for me. I told him I don't feel married anymore, that is long gone. He was surprised when I said that and hurt. He lied to me during recovery, lied to the therapist and still continued to lie about the affair. I told him his needs were still more important than mine. He didn't disagree. I know where I stand. I stand by myself and look out for my interests. If he hadn't lied for so long pre - during and post affair I would feel differently.

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    1. I feel exactly like you llp, having our own backs is security following d day, the only person we can count on is us. you are wise to have kept some money aside, I also keep my money separate at the end of the day I might be in a situation where I am fending for myself and children and I want to be prepared. Eyes wide open indeed . Xxx

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  11. Music is a big part of my life and a big trigger of my memories. All the music that came out after the bomb went off in my life can still spiral me into a depression and it's been almost 4 years. I definitely can't listen to music about cheating or picking up random girls in bars. I wanted to kick him out so bad when it happened but I had loved my life and the life we had built for our kids. It wasn't fair that his actions should get to destroy all of our lives. He also did show remorse and showed that he was working to fix his lifestyle. We still hit bumps now and then and I fight depression on a daily basis( which I never had before the betrayal) but there are more good days Now then bad. Thanks for sharing your journey.

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    1. Anonymous,
      have you considered therapy to help you work through a lot of residual pain? I know there are some therapies that expose you to your triggers so that they lose their sting. It's a shame that music, which can give you such joy, is causing such pain.

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  12. Gabby If you need a little pick me up watch some of pema chodruns you tube videos she is very inspiring and uplifting. Watched a few last night after feeling a little down brought me back to earth.. my relationship is similar to yours at the moment h too busy to give me And the kids a second look so I'm back to taking care of me : ) . Hope things improve for the both of us soon xx

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  13. Thanks for allowing us to how hard this journey is! Thanks to all the others that shared how they make it through! Just so thankful for you all!

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  14. This post came at the perfect time as they always seem to be that way. Just what I needed. This is the roughest time of year for me. August is the 2 year anniversary of dday 2 which was way harder on me than dday 1. And also our wedding anniversary. I am struggling more this year than ever. I know it is related to him telling me basically the only reason he justified in his head to cheat on me is he realized we got married too young and he should never have done that and then he was not prepared for having kids. He pretty much says this is the only reason. What I struggle with is he pushed me to get married and have kids. I never once brought up marriage. I was pursuing my career in another city and very content. I know I cannot undo the past. I have been committed to staying and working hard and being strong most of all because of my kids. What I struggle with is I feel like this is a shallow excuse by my husband. Maybe it is all there is but I feel like for what he did there has to be something deeper. I have been to therapy and worked on me. I am in a good place personally and feel like my options now are I just live with it and move forward, he goes with me to therapy or I leave. So working through those thoughts. He has been on his best behavior and being a great husband and father. Luckily he is busy this weekend which I think is good. No need to fake a celebration. I can spend the weekend with my kids. But I need to think seriously about what my next step is. When I bring up how I feel or even start to talk about it he says it does not matter what I say his feelings will never change and he loves me so much. But he does not want to talk about it anymore or feel the pain.

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    1. Hopeful 30, hang in there. Every single time anyone on this site says "this is a difficult time of year/month/season" my heart opens to you with compassion and understanding. I have two of those. One is in January, my wedding anniversary month which I will likely never celebrate again and June, when he disclosed. I know in advance that I will suffer emotionally whether in silence or out loud.

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    2. Hopeful 30, having just 'celebrated' our 1st wedding anniversary post Dday #3 I feel for you. And I didn't want H to have a big talk about the A, but I did want him to acknowledge the hurt and how lucky he was to have another anniversary to celebrate with me. Having to deal with that close to the same time as a Dday must be difficult. Thinking of you.

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  15. Thank you for this. So, so true! I have told myself countless times that it would be immensely easier to split it all in half and be done. Way, way easier, by far! Many of you might not agree but alone would of been preferable to me.The sight and physical presence of my h was very hard for me the first year or so. For various reasons I stayed. Gladly, I can see now that his presence is not such an issue anymore. I attribute that to the fact that I've 'turned off' the part of me that placed so much value on him (or trying to). What he's doing, what he's thinking of me, whether he's thinking of me, etc.. I see our lives as parallel right now. I try to deflect compliments from him and only allow my own self approval to penetrate my heart. I'm not saying I'm doing it right, just coping.I just found it so very hard to exist in the same air as him.
    'Staying is hard' is such an understatement, really. Shame on me for any judgment I've placed on victims of infidelity in the past.
    To those coming along behind, hang in there! Days do improve in a way, just maybe not how you expected. There's no romantic warm fuzzies for me, but there's deep-rooted satisfaction in an inner strength I've come to appreciate and find rest in.
    To those of you ahead of me; big, big thank you! You have been a presence I needed in my lonliness.
    Love to all.

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  16. Anonymous,
    I feel the exact same way about music. In my "Googling everything and snooping" phase, I even looked up which songs might have been playing when he did these things (since I didn't find out until years later). Now I have those songs as triggers too even though it is based only on my imagination. Songs about "hookups", songs from the time period when I was in shock and barely functioning, songs that might have been playing while he did what he did... I won't say that he ruined music for me, but close. Now I do a lot of channel changing (and cursing under my breath that I can't enjoy it like I used to).

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    1. Ann
      I'm with you all on music but I learned how to turn lyrics around. When 'Girl Crush' first came out, I loved the music and then the lyrics but as the song grew in popularity, dday came along and I turned it around from the ow singing the song about me. My h couldn't stand to hear that song but it gave me power...I'm learning that it's all in how you allow the music to move you....hugs!

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  17. My favorite part of this post is, "Strength? It's what you see every day in the mirror when you straighten your shoulders and turn to face a world that thinks it knows what you should do and decide instead to do what's right for you." Thank you, Elle! Such profoundly wise words. I was a joy to my parents because I always did what they wanted me to do. I was a joy to my teachers because I followed their script too. I assumed I would be a joy to my H because I did all the wifely and motherly duties very well. I was pretty sure I had mastered life. I knew how to please others. I assumed that was what was "right for me". The strength I've found to be my true self, to take care of my needs, to speak up, to tell other people I care about them... These have been the unexpected gifts to come from this whole experience. Just as my body looks healthier now that I'm taking care of myself, my mind and my soul are healthier too. I do struggle when it seems the rest of the world thinks I'm not strong because of my choice to stay, but I know the truth. Popular culture knows nothing about the aftermath of betrayal. Statistically at least 50% of the population experiences it, but a much lower percentage has processed it apparently. Sometimes I envy people who can still have such a simple solution in mind (kick him to the curb! problem solved!). I kind of long for a simple life like that where I "know all the answers". The problem is, I'd have to fall back asleep in my life and start living someone else's script instead of writing my own story. I'm not willing to do that. It's like if an Olympic runner wanted to go back to training for a 5K and finish in the middle of the pack where things were simpler. They can't. They've grown beyond that. They can run the short distance if they want to, but it probably won't be enough for them.

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  18. Can someone link to the post from the CH wanting to leave so he didn't "cause her more pain"? I'm curious to read what he said and how he was responded to. Thanks!

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    1. Periwinkle,
      It was about a week or so ago -- can't recall which post he was responding to. I wasn't too charitable in my response. I do think he was hurting about what he did but terrified of having to really face it, day after day. And I hear that so often on this site. Guys who just want their wives to "move forward", "leave it in the past". It makes me crazy. What they're really saying is "your pain makes me fee awful so please don't make me have to see it."

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    2. When I look at my husband that is how he ended up having affairs etc is he did not want to deal with his feelings. That troubles me and scares me. He has made changes in his behavior but I question if he has really faced that. He can have very factual matter of fact discussions but he hates anything tied to emotions. He would prefer for me to scream, yell and call him names over feeling in pain, sad or down because of this. His constant theme is he tells me all he wants is for me to be happy.

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  19. Can we open a thread where we can talk about sex and intimacy post-affair? I'm really struggling, and it's so important to my husband but the moment he starts talking about wanting more sex it's all I can do not to throw things at his head. I need to hear from some others how you reacted. Was it hysterical bonding? Or was it don't even think about it?

    We had a better-than-average married sex life and had tried pretty much everything/anything. We were adventurous. But he always wanted more than I did and it became a problem when he couldn't understand this, understand it's normal, and respect me when I would say "I'm not interested tonight". He would become convinced I was rejecting him, and he would get obsessed over it until we had see again. This thought spiral, all in his own head, is what likely made him vulnerable to allure of someone who would risk her own marriage just to sleep with him.

    We're still getting hung up on this same point. I'd love to hear from others.

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    1. Periwinkle,
      Sure, I can create a thread for this. It tends to be something we don't talk a lot about on this site but I suspect it looms large for lots of us.
      Re. your husband: It sounds as if sex, for him, isn't about intimacy so much as it's about comfort and ego and soothing. Is he in any sort of counselling to talk about it? Lots of couples have different sex drives but to respond so strongly to your "not tonight" seems like there's a whole lot more going on beneath the surface.

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    2. Thanks, Periwinkle! I have some things on this topic that I've been considering posting about but worried they might be to "triggery" for people at other stages of healing. And it's also so personal. Now i just have to find the nerve to actually post there!

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    3. Periwinkle, my h/almost ex was the same way about sex. Me saying no or not tonight was interpreted by him as a huge rejection. It's complicated and has a lot to do with the childhood trauma he experienced and growing up in a house where physical affection was not the norm. So there was no validation like that just day to day. And we're monkeys, we need casual, affectionate touch to keep sane. So for him, sex became the only way he could feel validated. My being tired or not being comfortable trying something new was taken so personally by him instead of just being about a boundary. So the more it was a problem that I said no, the less I felt safe saying yes. It was just too much pressure. Dysfunction junction.
      You are allowed to say no, or not now, or help me with the dishes so I'm not worried about that and maybe can relax and be into sex later, or rub my shoulders and lets snuggle for now instead. All those are legit and he needs to figure out the origin of why his reaction is so large. I know when I see myself over react it is always family of origin stuff around my mom's alcoholism or other family dysfunction. I'm guessing the same is true for your H.
      You are allowed to feel however you feel about sex and intimacy post affair. Its traumatic. Couple books that helped me out were 'Mating in Captivity" by Esther Perel (I think she's a genius - new book about affairs coming out in Oct) and 'Sex made simple" sounds like a how to, but it is really a guide for dealing with intimacy issues around sex. There's a good chapter on dealing with post affair physical intimacy. Hugs!

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    4. It has been a struggle for my husband and me too. His infidelity was due to sex addiction and he grew up in a family with pretty twisted ideas around sex and sexuality. Factor in a cold, critical mother and an abusive father. For him, sex is about physical gratification. Intimacy is something he's had to work hard to understand. I never quite understood my feelings about our sex life because I assumed he viewed sex the way I did -- a way of connecting, of making each other feel good, of mutual comfort and care. But, on some level, I felt...unsafe. I felt objectified. We continue to work at coming together in a way that feels healthy. I'm glad you suggested this Periwinkle. Perhaps we can all take our posts to that Sex and Intimacy thread.

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  20. I totally believe every woman here who says they have had to overcome the myth that strong women leave cheaters and only weak women stay, and I sympathize with you -- but I actually have experienced the opposite.

    Perhaps it is because I am very invested in my Catholic community / culture. Perhaps it is just my particular friends and family. But the message I have always received is you stay. You made a vow, you stay. Weak men sin. Strong women stay. Divorce is for the faithless.

    So great, I have support to stay. But HOW to stay? On a daily basis, HOW? Not so much support for that part...

    I'm staying, for now. For a lot of reasons. For God, for my H, for my children. But mostly for me, led by the courageous women of this site -- women who don't just suck it up and get over it, but women who work to heal themselves and bring their marriage along with them (or not). Thanks for showing me the "how." I'm forever grateful xoxo

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    1. Sal,
      Thank you for this. I appreciate hearing another side to this and I'm glad that you have reasons for staying that are more than feeling like you "should". The "how" is what you read every day on this site. The "how" is different for each of us but, as you point out, it begins with a commitment to heal ourselves from this pain, to ensure that we aren't just sucking it up but rather looking squarely at the wound and refusing to pretend it's not there. It begins with being kind and gentle with ourselves and then expanding that to those around us.
      I'm grateful you found us.

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  21. Hell yes we are extremly strong women. We just didnt know how strong we were.
    Thank you Elle i needed your post this week, its been 3 years since dday and although we are in a goodish place. Ive been having serious doubts. Once a cheater always a cheater has been running around my head.
    I let him stay because i made a vow because my children were young and didnt deserve to have their lives ripped apart because i loved him and everyone deserves a second chance.
    Since dday we have talked more about feelings and stuff that hapoened to him that i had no idea about this has stopped hes never great at opening up and talkinf about the affair was never something he was comfortable about but i didnt care how he felt but recently i have stopped talking about it i dont know why i suppose waiting for him to.

    But now im struggling with the trust. Its not that he gives me any reason no flirting but theres no trust where other women are concerned.
    When does the trust rebuild??. Am i ever going to trust him again. Have i really forgiven him??

    I thought by know that i wouldnt be feeling so unsure of my feelings. Is this normal??
    Sorry im all over the place recently and i dont have anyone to talk to my friends are going through there own problems and we stopped councilling due to funds.
    I just read yours and the other strong womens post and get some understanding of there pain and thought process and it really helps.

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    1. Trying to Heal, There's a video series by Esther Perel about how a couple heals post affair and it is the wayward spouse who is the one who needs to hold a vigil and bring it up, especially when they notice you might be hurting. The rub is that if they were good at noticing the feelings of others or connecting, then maybe we wouldn't be in this mess. Visit Esther's website. There's a lot of good stuff on there and maybe you and your H can watch and read together.
      As far as trusting, there's no timeline for healing or recovering. You are where you are. Be kind to yourself about it and try to let go of any expectations for yourself to "be" anywhere other than where you are. If you are having trouble trusting him, get curious about that. My experience is that there is usually some childhood thing, some family of origin message that we've internalized and our current reactions are a way of reliving those old themes and contracts.
      Also, is he behaving in ways that show he is trustworthy? I suspect there is something you need him to do or say on a regular basis that might help. Ask for that when you dial in to what that is.
      Forgiveness is a weird thing. It doesn't mean that you are making what he did ok. It doesn't mean that you have to like or even accept it. What it does mean, to me, is that yu are releasing yourself from the pain of whatever it is. What I am saying when I forgive something is that I am removing this hook from my flesh. This thing will no longer have power over me. I no longer agree to be hurt by the past. Because we think, by hanging on to it, it will protect us from pain in the future. It doesn't. We have no way to see what is ahead, but if we are humans, there is joy and sorrow, happiness and loss. There is no destination in life. We don't arrive at a place where we will never feel pain again.
      I would say if you are having these feelings, being unsettled and all over the place that yes, this is normal. To me it is often a sign that I am ready to deal with something big, whatever that thing is that is coming up. Its a growth spurt.
      And for the record, just because you can't afford MC doesn't mean you should stop doing the work. Think about working through a book or guide together. There's good stuff on the Daily Om, or a gagillion books on Amazon or Esther Perel's stuff. Or just schedule an hour out of your week where you sit down and check in with each other. Talk about the things you'd discuss in MC. Set rules like no laundry lists of complaints and agree that anyone can call a time out if it gets overwhelming but that you agree to revisit the subject when you've had time to cool down.
      That's all my M.s fixit two cents for you. Hope some of the ideas are helpful. And Trying to Heal, you are exactly where you are supposed to be. Hugs

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    2. Trying to heal, SS1 has given you really REALLY great advice here. In my experience and with what I see on this site every day, those of us who've had some sort of earlier trauma (often childhood) or childhood dysfunction in the family have a harder time getting past infidelity. It re-opens old wounds. As my therapist often reminded me, when my reaction to something seems larger than the something I'm reacting to, that's old stuff that needs re-examining.
      Perl's site is awesome and she has a book coming out in weeks. She tackles infidelity without judgement and with enormous compassion. She sees it as a symptom of something larger happening in our culture and within marriage. The remedy is to heal together.
      Continue to talk with your husband. If he isn't bringing it up (so often they're relieved when they think it's "over" and life can go back to "normal"), then you bring it up. Take control over your healing. Tell him when you're hurting, when you're feeling insecure, when you just need reassurance that he's beside you and will remain there.
      Healing isn't a straight trajectory. It's up and down and round and round. But trust that, even if you can't see it right now, you're moving forward. You're excavating a lot of pain. You'll get there.

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  22. Still Standing 1, I love what you wrote, in particular the part about "removing this hook from my flesh". I think that is a far better description, for my purposes anyway, than forgiveness. Forgiveness sounds like something I'm giving to him, but the way you express it makes it something else entirely. I'm going to hold on to that idea, and ditch the word "forgiveness". Thank you for that!

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