Wednesday, March 14, 2018

Wednesday Word Hug: Expectations


  1. That's it. I'm screwed!

    Gabby xo

  2. Elle - you are speaking to my soul this morning.

  3. Yes...
    Why do I have ANY expectations for my h?

    I haven't commented lately b/c nothing has changed since the end of Jan. My h and I are still separated. He will not talk about the state of our marriage.He has, however, gone to 3 IC sessions. I still feel like I'm in limbo. My son still believes his father having an affair was a "dick move" that he'll "prob never forgive," and he told him that. My daughter doesn't understand why I didn't "throw his butt out" the moment I learned of the affair (she did not share that with her father).

    What hurts the most (recently)? My h told the ow he and I are separated. The ow's h told me. Yep, that's how I found out my h lied. Again. I blocked his number.

    Our parents, siblings, and close friends know he cheated. They know we're separated. Everyone (save perhaps one of my h's friends) is devastated. No one can believe it...we seemed so in love and so affectionate and so respectful and so...
    What an illusion, at least on his part.

    I wish I could not care about him. I wish I did not love him.

    I wish he would wake up and take responsibility for all the devastation he has caused in so many lives. I wish he would truly repent and repair - or have enough respect for me to end this.

    Some days, I wonder if I should end this marriage. Limbo. I know that I will know when I've had enough. I'm not there, but I fear I may be soon. That may be the only way I will survive with dignity.

    Not feeling hopeful nor positive lately. I'm still writing, walking my dogs, and working out. I'm still going to IC 1-2 times/month. I'm still trying to focus on myself, and I'm succeeding most days.

    I still miss my h. I miss my intact family. I don't miss the denial, avoidance, and betrayal. Yep...limbo.

    Thank you for reading.I think of you all often and look forward to reading about how you're doing, especially when your lives are progressing like you desire. THAT gives me hope. ��

    1. Jo - we have expectations because we're still grieving what we had (or thought we had). If you're like me, you put your all into recovery - and you dreamed that he would do the same. You wished he would finally see what he was doing. I'm not sure that all of them truly get it. Or some are just to weak to do the hard work and would rather take the easy route out. Either way - we are the hopeful ones and sometimes it just doesn't work out the way we want it to.

      It sucks. And to have that back and forth feeling of should I, shouldn't I ... it almost makes me wonder which we're gas lighting ourselves with.

      Hang in there strong mama ... I find solace in believing that when the answer is right I'll know it.

    2. Jo, what you say really makes me own situation (seems similar to yours except that our daughter is nearly 3 years old, so has not been told of the infidelity... as far as I know). 18 months on from d-day, I am starting to feel more neutral towards my h. Maybe this will lead to the freedom Sam A describes. Nothing can be rushed. If you still love him, that's just how it is. I'd like to compare feelings to tides ebbing and flowing... but sometimes your feet are so numb with cold that you can't tell if they're in the water or on the shore. That's how I felt a lot. I'm sending you my wishes for sunshine and warmth.

    3. Jo,
      One of the hardest parts of this whole thing is getting comfortable with not knowing, or, as you put it "limbo". So much of our time, post D-Day, is limbo. If we stay, we don't know that he won't do this again. If we leave, we don't know if we should have stayed. And our culture tends to push us to make a quick decision, exactly as your children are saying. Thing of the best things you can do for yourself right now is just sit with the discomfort and see what happens before you make a choice. Give yourself time to get over the shock of it, to see what the separation is like, to see whether your husband has what it takes to face down his demons. It's horribly uncomfortable. We humans prefer certain misery to limbo. And yet...limbo, in this and in so many other areas of life, is where we need to learn to live and be comfortable. It might look like you're standing still in the midst of the storm but you're learning and you're healing, below the surface.

    4. Kimberly,
      You are so right. Yes, I did put everything in to recovery and wished my h would have done the same. I am hanging in there... thank you. :)

      Sounds like you are doing the best you can as well. Your positivity gives me strength!

    5. Hi, Selkie. :)
      Thank you so much for the well wishes.
      I, too get the whole numbness/neutrality... it's enough to make me begin overanalyzing again. Some times I can catch myself and tell myself to STOP, and other times, well... I'm not that aware of myself as I should be. Still trying, still hanging in there.

    6. Thank you, Elle.
      I like your advice of letting myself "sit" with this discomfort. Although I have seen small signs of my H changing, it's not enough. He still hasn't faced his demons, as you stated, and it's difficult for me to wait to see if he will. You're right, though; I am learning about myself - what I want, what I don't want - and I am healing. Thank you.

  4. Jo, it’s great your managing to take care of yourself in and amongst all that is going on. How long have you been separated? And what is he doing to deserve this second chance?. I think it’s very hard to end the marriage when you still love him, I’m currently in the process of divorce and I know it’s right for me because that love I had for him has dissolved into thin air, never though it would but it has abs therefore it is making my decision easier every day, I’m getting ambivalence from my h daily, he is sadly clutching at straws and is in a desperate situation trying to talk to my friends and family to get me to change my mind. The truth is I can’t change my mind and I won’t not this time 3 d days is more than anyone can take and I’m human not s robot like he must think I am. He’s offered me everything I want money, house, credit cards, I don’t want any of it my peace of mind Is priceless. I’m not angry I’m just ready for life without him.

    Jo you will know when your ready to make that next step and nothing or no one will stop you. Think about yourself and your children and what’s best for the 3 of you. Keep posting jo it’s great to hear from you xx

    1. Hi, Sam. Thanks for you response - you bring up important points to remember.

      My H and I have been separated roughly 2 mos. D day was early Sept. 2016.

      What is my H doing to deserve this second chance, you ask? Not much. Small things, here and there... I don't believe he realizes how much his betrayal hurt me and our children. He has not asked for forgiveness (says he hasn't forgiven himself yet), and he has not been able to achieve no contact w/the ow (they work for the same corporation). One thing I know for sure is that I cannot repair our marriage/start all over with my H if he cannot 100% give up the ow. No contact means NO CONTACT.

      My H does not share with me what he speaks to his counselor about (fine, I understand it's HIS session) nor what he's been thinking about. This is very difficult for me, but I have been trying to not focus on what he's thinking/doing and instead focus on me.

      You sound resolute and strong. 3 D days? It's so sad, so unfortunate, so preventable and yet some Hs are still so clueless and selfish. Yes, peace of mind is priceless. I'm glad that you are able to achieve that for yourself. I'm working on it! :)

  5. Yes! Yes! Yes! I think this is what really gets to me the most - and I am having a hard time changing the picture in my head. I don't want this long term EA my husband had with a coworker to be part of our story. But it can't be IS a part of our story and I need to let go of how life was supposed to be...both then and now. (Hugs)

  6. Truer words were never written. I found myself ruminating a bit yesterday and a bit this morning. We were sitting at the airport yesterday waiting for our flight when I pulled out the book "The Fine Art of Not Giving a f**k, when my husband says, "That is probably not a good book for you to read. He added it is quite vulgar and will probably trigger you." He read it and said he was able to slide past the messages that he knew would trigger me. He is quite good at that with all his mindfulness practice. It really left me feeling a bit hollow and fractured because my own mind starting reeling with messages. "Oh great, things are going well and he does not want me to fall apart again which makes him uncomfortable and causes him to feel shame about his life." "Jerk, if you had thought about all this before you started buying whores we might not be here." etc, etc, etc. This is not how my life was supposed to be but it is what it is. I keep going back to the blog on resentment that LLP posted about I believe and it is very helpful for me to remind myself that if I can accept the anger=resentment equation I might continue on the healing path. I really do not want to allow my husbands behavior to dictate my feelings about myself or my marriage but those thoughts sneak in and poison my joy at times. I'm trying to be the best friend I need and tell myself all the things I read here. "You did not deserve this, you did nothing wrong, you are a kind, loving and caring woman who married a deeply screwed up man, etc. Accepting that this is how my life is causes me to reevaluate all that I do and want to do. I've never put myself first in my own life and it continues to be a challenge at times. Life is pretty good when I "forget" about my husbands choices and reject the resentment I feel because I do not want it to occupy any of my precious time. It is the unknown of the future that gives me pause but I'm living my life and making kinder decisions every day. Love you ladies.

    1. I feel exactly the same. My h frequented prostitutes for four years of our 23 year marriage. I’m 13 months from DDay and I find myself exactly where you are. He should have thought about the consequences before he made his choices. Don’t get mad at me because I lose my shit at the most inappropriate times. He thinks I have control over it. Nothing pisses me off more than for him to tell me that I can feel better and move on if I want to. Does he think I don’t want to? I would have my memory wiped clean if I could do as not to feel the pain one more day.
      I really do try to take care of myself and tell myself that it was not my fault. But it’s hard. I turn 61 next month. As I told him, you weren’t paying for sex with 60 year olds.
      I just want to feel good again. I want to feel like myself again. But just when I start to feel better the sad creeps back in. How could he do that? How could he put our love and life in such jeopardy?
      I have had several fever blisters, stomach flu, had my back go out on me and am now in my second cold since January! Not to mention the ptsd.
      I wish I didn’t love him and could move on. But I do and the thought of him having sex with these other women is almost more than my heart, mind and body can bear.
      I wonder if staying makes it worse because I see him everyday (we own our own business) or would it be better for me to leave and work it out on my own?
      Someone please tell me it gets better!

    2. Lillylove, 13 months is no time at all in terms of your healing. To answer your question does it get better? I guess if your h is doing the hard work to convince you it can be better then it can. Have you had some counselling lillylove? I think every woman who has been betrayed requires some counselling it’s like medicine it makes you feel better, it heals you slowly. What is your h doing to one understand why he did what he did and ensure he never does it again. If he’s not putting in the hard work then there is a chance he will seek out again. I speak from experience Lilly love my h put in very little from d day 1, the basic he would never do the hard work of getting to grips with his demons so therefore there was a d day 2 and more recently a d day 3. I hope this isn’t the case with you Lilly love. After d day 2 we went for separation and Now my divorce is near, now he’s woken up and promised me the world, it’s a little too late. Sad but true. I guess some men will never change and it’s a pattern here you tend to find the men that won’t chsnge are those who do nothing to work out why they acted out in the first place.. keep posting Lilly love we are here to support you xxx

    3. Hi Beach Girl and Lilly Love,

      Our bodies are doing their very best. Our minds and hearts are reeling. I'm not yet in your life stage, but have also had an almost constant cold since this Dreadful Day. I found for a while that whenever I had to speak of the OW (at the mediator my h agreed to go to with me for a brief period), my throat would physically dry up and I could hardly get the words out.

      I love yoga, but find it hard to do alone - and my work hours and commute do not allow me to go to a regular class. I believe some kind of physical activity does help me mentally and emotionally though (dancing, running, etc).

      I wonder could something like that be helpful for you too?

      (My h is still on the fence about whether he even wants us to try again... so I am just holding out here until the deadline I have given him.)

    4. Lilly Love,

      I am sixty one also. I am five years out and I want to tell you that yes it gets better, time helps enormously. I felt that same pain of not knowing if my heart and body could handle the pain of the fact of him sharing himself with another woman. She is twenty years younger than I, and the truth of that, has been really hard. In truth the road has been harder than I could have ever imagined. at the beginning when our therapist said"two years at least before it feels better or manageable" the idea of two years feeling as bad as I did seemed impossible. But the good part(if you can say good part)is,if your husband is putting in the effort you have a deep feeling of intimacy even if its steeped in pain, that I miss. Now life is back to normal and the pain is not sharp at all,still with me but very manageable. I also have thought and still occasionally wonder if it would be easier to move if we hadn't stayed together. But the truth is neither decision, staying or leaving, is easy or right, the hard thing is the fact it happened.

      Take as best care as you can of yourself. I felt so bad about myself for about two years after. I wish I had been easier on myself. Now looking back I can see I was exactly who I always had been been, beautiful,loving complicated,kind and flawed as we all are. It wasn't about me(mostly)and it certainly wasn't about my beauty or character. Hang in there! We can do very hard things. Sending you love and a hug! Lucy

    5. LillyLove, Welcome to the club. You are among incredible strong women who know your pain.
      Their words about taking care of you are important ones. I hope you've have yourself fully tested for STDs. It's one of the most humiliating parts of this but crucial to ensure your health. And I think our emotional pain often shows up physically -- our immune system is broken too. So please, be gentle with yourself. Rest as much as you can. Eat well. Exercise.
      Are you both in counselling as well? It really REALLY helps to have someone who can support you as you heal. And it's important, if you are rebuilding your marriage, to see your husband do what he needs to do to face down his own demons.
      Assuming you begin to see a real change in him, yes, it does get better, even if you stay. It's hard either way -- there's pain no matter what because you can't undo the betrayal. But with a partner who takes full responsibility for the pain he's caused and who is wiling to do the hard work of supporting you as you heal, then yes, it gets better. the meantime...please make sure you see a doctor for your various ailments. You need care.

    6. LilyLove, sorry for the delay in my response but I'm spending time with my adult kids and grandkids so my time is limited online. Honestly, 13 months out is not enough time for you to feel much except pain, crazy, anger, heartbreak, frustration and doubt about everything. I've been married 39 years and just turned 67. My husband's sex/porn addiction was grandfathered into my marriage although I had no idea. He told me he thought he had AIDS in June 2015 because he was buying sex. My daughter was due to have her first baby within a week. I was stunned, shocked, emotionally shattered and yet I made a quick decision to do nothing for at least a year. My husband and I started talking full steam after his disclosure and he swore off all of his extra-curricular activity in order to save our marriage. It took months to get the truth about his life and things still get exposed that shock me but he has kept his promise to stay faithful. He went to counseling but not as much as I would like, he took mindfulness classes and he read a lot. He understands why he did the things he did and neither of us can ever go back to the way it was. I gave him one chance to get back on the narrow road or we were done and so far he has kept to his sexual sobriety. Our lives are much richer now and I am still in counseling. I know without a doubt that I can not and will not accept one screw up from him. He knows that too. He has spent a lifetime making lousy choices and they are his choices so when he looks in the mirror he sees the screwed up man he is but I don't have the same experience because I did not make those choices. I sleep well at night. I know what he is capable of even if he says he can and will never do that again. One day at a time. Hang in there, keep reading and if your husband is remorseful and wants to keep your marriage together he has a lot of work to do. It is still hard at times but nowhere near as hard as 13 months when I still thought suicide was a reasonable plan for me and for him.

  7. Screwed because of how it is suppose to be. I think of expectations. If expectations are low then we don't value oneself. If expectations are too high then we are disappointed. Not having any exceptions is not right either. We all knew our husbands could cheat, but we didn't expect them to cheat. We all knew our husbands could lie, but we didn't expect them to lie. We knew our husbands could really hurt us but we didn't expect them to drop a bomb on us. Part of this is culture the "happy ever after Disney movie stuff". Marilyn Monroe said, you believe the lies so eventually all you trust is you. What are my expectations now? They sure aren't what I said I above but in someway they are still there. I was thinking that I knew my H was a player before I married him. I already knew he was a flirty type. But I expected him to love me enough not to hurt me in a life changing way. I didn't listen to myself. I thought he would change just because he was married. Fooling myself, expecting the best. Maybe being screwed until we know what is real is part of our story of life. I can stand to be screwed like a wake up call just not all the time. I'm not sure I agree with this post. Right now in my head, my husband will not have another affair. But I know he could. If he did I would be screwed, back to square one. I don't expect my husband to tell me the truth about the past so if he does I won't be screwed? Isn't expectations is what is suppose to be our boundaries? Maybe this means expect to be screwed no matter what the picture is in our heads? Jo, you expect your husband to try. Steam, you expected your husband not to have a burn phone. Sam A - you are setting your own expectations.

    1. LLP,
      I have come to believe that the key to happiness is zero expectations. It's hard. But to absolutely let go of outcome is liberating. To show up as best we can and then to let go of whatever everyone else does frees us up to take pleasure in being.
      I understand your point re. expectations of our partners because, of course, we expected them to honour the vows they made. And I certainly have expectations of people who want to be in my life -- I expect honesty and integrity and kindness and decency. But it's those other expectations -- the ones that are tied always to outcome -- that get me in trouble. And those are the ones, that people will behave a certain way, that things will turn out a certain way, that I've learned to let go of. Or rather, am learning. I'm a work in progress.

  8. Only Expectation: no relationship with any female you find attractive ... if it is someone you are forced to interact with (work)it is important you check in and be sure it is open communication with me about your thoughts and if you feel you may be stepping over some lines... e.g. "I ate lunch in the common area at work and pretty girl came in and sat beside me and starting chatting. I felt inclined to stay and not hurt her feelings. But now i feel guilty. I left as soon as I felt it not rude to do so... I made an effort to talk about you and not to flirt." This is openness!!! Makes me feel comfortable and is truthful that someone else can be attractive but there is limits now to how he can allow himself to interact... specifically he is drawing a line not to groom another affair.

    So yeah. Not what I'm getting. I'm finding cell phone numbers on business cards of a beautiful hairdresser he has been going to for months (I found out through name search on social media what she looked like ... he told me she was not pretty) I see him walking up to perfect strangers and flirting with them as they walk down a common path together. So our agreed expectation is not really agreed. What it is is just me pushing rules on a juvenile man.

    I am so tired. I expect a happy family with a husband that loves me and respects me. I expect that someone who has played house for 5 months with his affair partner in his secret double life would feel guilty and do everything in his power to never ever let it happen again. I expected that he could change.

    The crazy crazy side of it is tho... deep down inside I also expected that he never would change. It's like wishing for the terminally ill patient to recover fully but knowing there is no real chance short of a miracle they will.

    Life is so hard. What if my family could just stay together. What if he finally understands boundaries and that his relation ship with me and to our family is worth more then novelty relationships. ANYONE can have sex. But how many can claim they can make a marriage work... can have an life partnership with trust and love and happiness...pfft now that's a challenge. But hey... they say u have to love yourself before you can truely Love someone else... selfish bastard is trying to feel good by feeding his ego... at my expense.

    Now why can I tell someone else to leave their bastard husband and have no abilities to do it myself.

    I just love my kids so damn much. I wish he would leave and then my guilt in letting them down could go. Im so so tired.


    1. I hear you, Blindsided,

      My h 'left' without leaving. We've been living in his country (not mine) for the past 7 years. I have gradually built up friendships and activities here, and I have an alright job.

      He fully knows how difficult it is for me to deal with everything here (good friends, but no family) and how I am afraid that if I go back to my country with our child, that she will hardly ever see her father.

      It feels as if it's my call. But yet he was the one to walk out. He lives 10 minutes away. He seems to have everything 'easy'.

      If I move back to my country, I will be starting from scratch - building up a professional network, looking for places to live and work, finding childcare, health cover, car insurance, etc... all in the context of being emotionally desolate.

      My family are offering support, but I really fear that I couldn't deal with being dependent on them and would sink into a deep depression. Not to mention struggling to comfort my daughter when she misses her father - as she surely will.

      I don't want to leave in these circumstances. I can't stay in this unbearable situation. It is beyond exhausting. How can we have enough energy and 'jizz' to make any life-changing decisions? But I feel that I have to do something.

    2. Blindsided, I am so sorry. But it is way easier to see what other should do or even see a plan for them. It is so much harder when we are talking about our own lives. For me it is finding a way to work through the difference between what I know intellectually and emotionally. I find those to be so different at times and they rarely match.

      For me when faced with similar feelings I find I need to create a plan and get information. Yes I am a type A. But this helps me figure out a next step. At times during this process I have sat down and written out what I want from my life, a relationship etc. And this is just in general not talking about my husband. Then I came up with quantifiable things he could do. And I brought all of them up to him. Maybe even try with one or two things. Or if things are not at that point I would say working with a therapist just for you would be a good point. My therapist helped by walking through different options with me. Also at times I just was not sure what to say to my husband but it helped so much. And one thing I considered but did not do was going to an attorney. I was close at a couple points. For me I wanted to know my exact options whether I stayed or left etc. Thinking of you and keep us updated!

    3. Blindsided,
      I understand that guilt re. your kids because I felt it. And yet, when I see it from the outside, it's so clear to me that the guilt shouldn't be yours to feel. You are responding to his actions. HE made the choice. You now have the choice to respect your own boundaries and by so doing, giving your children the chance to see a woman who respects herself. Your job isn't to shield your kids from pain. It's to show them how to show up for pain and maintain self-respect and boundaries.

  9. Blindsided, I hear your tired, this is an exhausting time for you. My feeling is stop concentrating so much on whether he will or won’t change and concentrate on what you can change. You can start by being kind to yourself, let go of his lies and secrets and think about how life could look in say 6 months time, will you still be here in the same place or would you have taken that next step. You are in control of this situation blindsided it’s your choice whether you want him to stay or go, he likely won’t leave on his own terms, he’s enjoying the comfort of a family life. No need to make any decisions right now wait till you feel stronger and clear about what you want. Take some time out from all this and just look after you, take a walk, spend some time with friends, go for your favourite meal, buy some new clothes anything that feels good just do it. Breaking that cycle is hard but you can do it .. keep us posted blindsided xx

  10. Blindsided
    I’m finding that it’s always easier to give advice to others but hard as hell to live through our advice because of the feelings that are so strong of the love that we thought he had for us! Sending hugs!

    1. Theresa - YES! You said almost exactly what I was thinking. Hugs to you.

      Blindsided - Hugs to you, too. Wish I had more to give.

  11. LilllyLove,

    I’m glad others responded. I was going to but I don’t feel that I am much help to others because I am still in the midst of my own mess.

    But I agree with Sam A. Having a therapist to talk to helps eminsely. You have to have someone to talk to and process all you are going through.

    And your H has to see one too and get help and do the hard work to repair. If he isn’t - it probably will happen again.

    And just self care! Think of yourself- work out, sleep, eat right, drink water, go shopping, go out with friends, just take care of you. You can’t control your H.

    Thinking of you! I am sure it does get better but I’m not not quite there yet.

  12. How it’s supposed to be.....he was supposed to pick me, when I begged him, after his surf trip, after he came home after being with her and I told him, I begged him that I wanted us to try one more time, that I reread all he wrote about going to counseling (he never mentioned it - ever - before) and thought we should try one more time for us and the kids! But he said it would be to hard, he said that we hate each other too much, that he would have to go see her and work things out - he would think about it.

    He didn’t pick me. He has never picked me. He picked separation and giving me half his money and told me I would be happier. I realized what a messed up person he was and and is and that he would never change. I realized all he had put me through all these years and how I just didn’t really see how wrong it all was until now. How much he lies and manipulates everything to justify what he does.

    We should have lots of memories with just with Him and I - but we don’t. We should have traveled so much all over the world using the benefits from his job and had adventures and even just date nights at home - but we didn’t. We should have lots of pictures of us together documenting travels and our fun times alone and with family and friends - but we don’t.

    This should be the time of our life now! With the kids older-and finally money to pay the bills and have some fun! This should be our time to travel more and enjoy all our hard work! But it’s not.

    I’m not supposed to be suffering and trying to heal, going to IC, trying to pick myself up and brush myself off Again! Trying to emerge from the ashes from his gaslighting and emotional abuse. Trying to help the kids and figure out my path alone. Trying to figure out how to save $5,000 so we can start this Mediation process and get it over with and I can finally be separated from him legally.

    This is not how it is supposed to be-but it is where I am.

    1. Big hug for you. Love Lynn

    2. Ann, Please be easy with yourself. It's going to hurt. It's going to be hard. You have a warm heart and you thought he was a better man than he turned out to be. So grieve the loss of that. Let yourself be sad. And all that "he didn't pick me" stuff? It's pain shopping. He couldn't pick you. His head is so far up his own ass, he can't even see another person except as they serve his own ego. Until he can see others as fully human and deserving of respect, he can't "pick" anyone, including himself.

    3. Thanks Lynn! Big Hug Back!

      Thank You Elle! I needed some feedback today. I have been struggling since my WH sent me a text a couple of weeks ago -

      He said:

      Tell me.

      Should I leave everything behind?

      Should I look to you?

      Should I think again of me and you?

      This was about a week and a half ago and it has totally fucked me up ever since!

      I was doing OK considering everything until he texted me that. No contact, just doing my own thing after he left. Only communicated about bills, taxes and kids.

      I texted back a hateful response - I shouldn't have texted back at all looking back. I said:

      Tell you what?

      Why don't you post this conundrum on your Facebook and Instagram accounts as a poem and see how many likes you get.

      Or better yet, why not ask your girlfriend the next time you Fuck her on your next trip and see what she thinks?

      I think this is something you need to figure out when we are separated!

      So hateful! I hate being this hateful! So of coarse I had to find out why he texted that? When it has all been about separating because of the kids, that the kids have suffered because of our fights and toxicity. That we all need to heal. Never any mention of US. Us was NOT important!

      He said the reason he texted was to confirm that I hate him - and that Mediation would be hard. So I asked him - what if I said YES YES YES, come back to me! Finally! And he said that he would have said NO!.

      I am so confused and messed up again now!

      He is the one who wanted to separate! He doesn't even remember that I begged him to try one more time with us! It was only at the end of January! He just keeps saying that I hate him and I never begged him to stay - only to leave!

      I just don't get it. The only thing I can think is that he was hoping that I would have responded positively and with hope? And when I didn't he made up the idea the he was just putting that out there to confirm my hate. OR - his girlfriend texted that to see if he is for real, or he texted it to send my response to his girlfriend to prove to her that it is over with us?! Or he is just fucking with my head because I was not communicating with him! I don't know.

      Why would he do that? Why text something like that after all he has put me through! I just don't get it!

      So ever since then, I have been lashing out in texts here and there since he hasn't been home - and that we need to start the Mediation. I can't help it! I wish we could sit down with a counselor so he can finally understand my points of view and it is just so frustrating that he will never, ever get it! I cannot get any satisfaction that my point or feelings are getting understood and it gives me no closure at all! I am just stuck with these unresolved feelings that he will never acknowledge!

      How do I let go of all the hate! How do I stop sending so much hate his way! I just want it to STOP! I can't stop hating him! My IC showed me tapping - to get my brain back to where I am not in constant fight or flight - but it is hard to sit and breathe and tap when I just want to punch his face in!

      Sorry this is so long you guys! I need to get to my IC but you guys help so much!

    4. Ann, after D-Day 2, I sent the most hateful texts, as i too said no contact except by text about business, but i went off the RAILS--for 11 straight days, but what your husband did was just friggin CRUEL. I will never understand what is is someones heart to do something so cruel. My pure hate did go away because I am pretty sure i used it all up in that time frame. You can stop texting. I started writing things out in e-mail form to him and then saving as a draft and sitting on it. If i felt the same tomorrow then I would sent it. Shockingly I never sent ONE of those emails. It was just a way for me to get it out, like a journal but pointed right at him. Every intention of sending if I felt the same tomorrow. My H and i are still together almost 2 years out and although I have moments I wonder what the hell i am doing here (un affair related) I can say they are moments--they are few and far between moments. Does not mean you should stay, it just means I don't think you will be this angry for much longer. It's exhausting.

    5. Thanks Steam!

      That is good advise. To draft a text or emails. A lot of my Journals are just directed right at him - like I am writing to him. Since he is so into poetry now with his new stupid Girlfriend - I have written some poems.

      I have to stop because he uses my hate and mean texts against me. To prove that I am unstable. That I am off the rails! Who wouldn't be!!!! I am supposed to just let go of the Hate! He said he has let go of the hate! What the Fuck does he hate me for? Raising his kids, Not having a career? Not supporting him or helping financially when I had Anemia for 10 years?!

      I will continue to draft and not send! I hope my IC can help me with this Hate!!!

  13. Could I still be this heart broken...It's been over a year... I opted to stay in the marriage. I'm crying my eyes out tonight and I always come here to seek guidance. I still feel the loss of what I had before the shit hit the fan.

    1. Surviving,
      Yes, you can still be this heartbroken. Betrayal is devastating and it takes YEARS to heal from it. At one year, I was still a mess. It took me much longer to feel well and truly like it was behind me.
      So mourn the loss of what you had before but don't be afraid to be grateful for any positive changes that are taking place. Sometimes, as Helen Keller said, we're so busy staring at the door that's shut that we don't see the window that's now open.

    2. Surviving
      April 07 2017 was the day my life was ripped apart. This is how i see it...That day is there, it will always be there it's whether I choose to visit the place where the pain lives or not. Sometimes the draw to it is simply to strong and I am shoved into it... other days it's easier and time makes it easier if you can train your brain not to dwell or focus on it for too long. This pain has been imprinted on all of us. Took me awhile to even accept that. Its like i tried to scratch off a hot iron branding I had just been given causing more pain then ever. Even when it started to heal I'd scratch it and reopen the wound. Just do what you can to ignore it's there but learn how you got it in the first place and focus on other areas that can open up in your life.. as truely having conquered one of life's most difficult challenges, you should feel as if you could do anything now. When I saw that, I looked away from my pain and to the future. With so so so many pain visiting set backs I'm still HERE. Which I couldn't even imagine in my wildest dreams at the start. I thought I was going to die of a broken heart (I heard once you could lol) Look how far you have come. Don't get upset you still suffer. That shitty imprint hurt!! But do what you can to ease the suffering. And whatever that looks like is up to you. For me, it was simply ignoring its exisitance. It's painful to look at it so I won't. I will not let it have power over my future (if I can help it).


    3. Wow ladies. Thank you so much. It helps a lot to have your support. I am not alone.

  14. Blindsided, I agree with you on following advice. I think we are at a difference place sometimes. Some advice was too early on my healing path. I couldn't do it, wasn't strong enough and some advice I wished I had at the beginning. On days I feel strong out goes the advice. On days I'm weak then I suck up all the advice I get from you dear friends.

  15. Lillylove, Anonom, Surviving and Ann, I'm 63 and 5 years out. I know how you feel, you just want peace, you want your mind to sit still. I used to wish for an hour of peace. I don't think I stopped crying every other day until 2.5 years. I thought if Elle tells me time again, I'm going to scream, knowing it was true. So here are some random thoughts - yes again. My decision to stay took 1.5 years. I stayed because of financial reasons and companionship (I didn't say love) As you said, we worked very hard to get to this financial place to have fun. I wasn't ready to give up. I looked 5 years down the road and didn't see myself happier. I had to re-frame my mind from husband to companion. It is my choice to stay everyday. My therapist was literally a life-saver. I went every week for 3 years, when I lost my job, it was self-pay but was worth it. I did all the things I wanted to do since we were married. Alot of it was material stuff (my H would say, we don't have the money) like hair extensions, mini tummy tuck, I went to the jewelry store until my H caught on. We bought new wedding rings. My H did the work and still does. About triggers - triggers are events directly related to the affair. Resentment is re-living an event which makes me emotionally charged. My therapist finally told my H, it is not a light switch that can be turned off. Yoga helped me when I could make it. Just being quiet was a relief. Walking my dog. Acting out as much as I wanted helped for first few years tafter that it was detrimental to our relationship (notice I didn't say marriage). I also took anti-depressants. By year 3.5 I thought I was losing my mind. So then I thought this is a cop-out. Who am I? I got off antidepressants after 3 attempts. Then I started again, super critical, short fuse and negative. I went to therapy and asked was this a cop-out or was this me? My therapist who doesn't like drugs told me. This is not a cop-out. People are anti-depressants, who stay in bed, cry and can't get up in the morning. Sometimes antidepressants allow you to be who you really are and in your case I think this is true. She says, I think you may have a chemical imbalance of some type. I thought about my family history and knew she was right. So it is not a crutch for me and allows me to be a better me for myself. I also had to feel the pain full force, not try to hide it, cover it up, not lie to myself. If he couldn't take it then I didn't want him either. I read all types of books which helped. This site saved me many times, when the pain was unbearable. I still feel the loss of my marriage. I can't look at past pictures. We went on our first trip about a year ago which was the first one in 4 years where I didn't go into a crying fit. Do what works for you, not you and him, just you. It doesn't matter what it is, you have been hurt and deserve to be hurt, act hurt. Everything a betrayed does in normal in the betrayed circumstance. How would everyone expect someone to act who lost everything? You accept a widows grief. You accept an abused woman's cry. You accept a woman who going through a ruble of lost a house. You allow a woman who has a life-threatening illness to scream. We are all the above. Love to you, you are strong, you got this, it just feel like it all the time.

    1. Llp, so many good thoughts and advice! Thank you for sharing!

    2. We are all of the above. Yes, LLP, you did it again. You summed it all up with one beautiful howl of grief and wisdom.

  16. I’m really confused, sad, angry and upset.

    My husband and I had an explosive fight this morning. It started with me telling him he needs to look more deeply at how his ow’s sexual abuse influenced her vulnerability to be in an unhealthy relationship with him. It developed into him saying that I never take responsibility for my role in his feeling unloved and lonely for years. I have acknowledged that I had distanced myself from him and am sorry for the pain I’ve caused him but resent how all of our conversations go back to this and I get blamed for everything that’s wrong in our marriage. He fully owns that the affair was fucked up and is sorry for the pain he’s caused, but he always goes back to how I’ve hurt him too. So while we were arguing he told me I’ve been spoiled with love and I just can’t understand how he feels and i have a delusional perspective. And part of it’s true. Until a few months before the affair he was always affectionate and I had been the one who bottled things up and pushed away. And he told me how he felt but I figured it was an inevitable phase with babies/small children. I was exhausted and not giving much to him. So while fighting today I screamed “why do you stay? If I’m such a cold unloving person why do you even want me?” And he told me I was spoiled and I don’t fucking get it. And he’s been crying and screaming for love and how ducking hard is it to be affectionate? It’s so fucking easy. Then he became enraged and just started screaming Get It! Get it! Get it! And I walked away because it was all too much and our baby was upstairs crying because he was scared by our yelling.

    So then we both come to work and work for three hours and put on our happy faces like we always do. I asked him to go for a walk a bit ago and told him that I was thinking about how we move past all of this anger, resentment and pain. I realize he’s been trying to do that since dday and I’ve been so focused on trying to make sense out of all this shit that I haven’t been thinking about how I continue to push him away and not show him love. He said he’s so angry and feeling pathetic for accepting such a lack from me that he needs to leave. When I told him I loved him he said that hearing that now makes him angry. So he just went to his dads for a few days. Three hrs away.

    I’m so sad. I think I’m finally starting to understand how he feels. I’m still not sure what I want but it feels shitty for him to leave. Is it possible to move forward after all of this pain?

    1. Yes I believe it is possible to move forward NorCal. We are so much stronger then we think we are. Just as things feel unbearable something will happen that gives us a clearer view. Live day by day or even minute by minute before the fog clears and you can breath a bit. It's so painful. Oh man I didn't even know how painful something could be. But what can make a bad painful situation worse? Re-living it. Every single day, Every single minute. That's how. I lived in hell doing that.

      My husband also says he feels pathetic and stupid etc all the time. But he hasn't got the self awareness to see what those feelings cause him to do, he sees them as humble and virtuous I think. I wish he would ask himself why he flirts with strangers or why cross boundaries we have set? What is he getting from that? A feeling of worth? An escape to a world where people dont know your sins?? Hello!!! There are three kids who have stopped crawling all over him because he is so disengaged with his life.... try finding worth in them not a place to stick your dick in. A strong bond with his kids will actually be worthwhile and have huge payback! Kids love unconditionally no matter what he has done. And isn't that kind of love better then a strangers? He has it all wrong.

      10 years max He will have had another affair, but then again maybe he wont. And maybe is enough dispite the facts, I dont know why it is enough for me but it is. It's not that I am not valuing myself, it's that, I made a commitment too... for better or worse and he has turned out the worse. Grin and bare it? Yes and no. I ask myself what is the alternative? I cannot do the split home it is more heart wrenching then 50 affairs to watch my children being partially raised by a stranger. I'll take the chance that i will share my husband again to prevent any chance of having to share my kids.


    2. Nor Cal- you are me. I was the sole everything in our house (I mean I even did car maintence and all lawn work) while my h was busy doing what he enjoyed...coaching, reffing and playing golf and video games, I single handedly DID IT ALL. In the beginning I asked for help, then I pleaded, then after awhile I just sucked it up and did it. The entire time I wasn’t really angry, but I was resentful. I could totally see this after Dday. I was the woman at the sink with a sharp elbow if he tried to get close. “Wait until I have my hands free and I’m not doing something,” I would tell him. I didn’t like getting affection when I was in the throes of any task. In my mind, a lift of a finger to help me was more of a romantic gesture than any physical contact. I was spent.
      So, my advice is for you to read The Love Languages book by Chapman. It really helped me understand why I was detached for years and how my resentment was never realized.
      I’m almost 3 years to Dday and I can honestly say I’m almost 100% with my self esteem and we of course are forever changed for the better. It was a hellish time and by no means easy. I felt like I would die many days. The pain was so severe. You know it well. Just letting you know that this is hard, takes time and it’s a daily inside job for both of you. Hugs!

    3. Heartfelt, I agree with so much. And that book is very insightful. Another book that I think is helpful and we actually saw the one man play version was Men are from Mars Women are from Venus. It was around a year after dday and my husband got us tickets. It was so good. I find that at least for my husband he is not going to read through an entire book but watching the play was entertaining. He still over 2 years later refers to aspects of the play. It helped him be more insightful. I am not sure if it would come up if googled but worth a try. Also one other good read is a magazine article called The Masters of Love in The Atlantic by John Gottman. I love his work anyways but my husband again found this. He brought the article home from work to share with me. It started a high quality discussion and it was early on after dday. It really allowed him to see how he was detached and caught up in himself in stead of "turning towards" me. All good stuff!

    4. Nor Cal, I think this recovery process is really hard. One thing I would say to you is that we all heal at different speeds. I find that with my husband and me we almost play off of each other. When I am feeling really good about us he might be struggling. It kind of ebbs and flows. For us outside stress affects us a lot. We try to still keep our schedules limited even three years later. And I do think it is possible to move past it. However it takes a lot of work and patience. And in the end I found we had to heal from the betrayal but then create basically a new marriage. Beyond the actual pain we had to look at what we each wanted from our marriage. A lot of where we were was habits and just time passing. We met when we were young. We have a ton in common but with busy lives we did our own thing. So we really focused on us and what we wanted, how we communicate, and have built the marriage we want.

  17. I second the Love Languages book recommendation.

  18. NorCal,  You did NOT cause the affair and should NOT take the blame. He chose that path and if there's any remorse in him he should do what's needed to work on the relationship with you now instead of "escaping". He needs to answer your questions fully so you can also move on in time. With a young family, work/layoffs, being in a sandwich generation where we are not just taking care of our babies but also dealing with aging parents...a lot of us are stretched extremely thin.  Not to mention the hormone swings from postpartum. In our expectation, our spouse should be in the trenches working along with us and not turned his back..if not at least some support/tolerance. We need them to be there with us so when we are old and toothless we can look back and shared the joy/sorrow of our journey. Instead, we have needy little boys acting out when they don't get what they want! They came up with a solution that met their needs instead of resolution for both.  When asked to explain themselves, they provide vague answers and expect us to move on so they don't need to look back at the path of their destruction/shame? Then turn around and blame us pushing them away AGAIN with these difficult discussions? Some of us by nature need to understand and can't compartmentize as well as man. We can't just shut the door and forget about it..otherwise we will always wonder about that demon lurking behind the "shut" door. If you have not yet, please seek out counseling as it is hard to carry the load by yourself with a baby.  I should have gone 10 years ago when I was in the same situation as you have now..3 kids, work, aging/sick parents/in lawa. I shut that door that he asked because he made promises and I expect...10 years later..that demon behind the door turned into a very real 22 years old stripper (our daughter's age ) that he sets up in an apartment to fulfill his needs because I was “distant”. He's 52 and needs someone to talk to. LOL..he also paid to get her a boob job.  He told the MC he cares and wants to fix our relationship. I told him I don't know what I want so taking it 1 day at a time but I do still ask repeating useless (his interpretation) questions.  Take as much time as you need to understand and don’t feel you need to compromise because it is your fault…it is NOT.




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