by StillStanding1
Welcome to the best club none of us ever wanted to join. Many of us washed up on the shores of the BWC, after desperately searching the internet for some kind of help, hope, something or someone who was offering a lifeline, was offering something more than pure anger and loathing. Maybe we had just experienced our first D-Day. Maybe it was our 2nd or 3rd . Maybe we were months into reconciliation and we just felt… stuck. And somehow, saints be praised, we found this site, where we hear for the first time, “You are not alone. It was never your fault. No matter how things turn out, YOU will be ok.”
Suddenly, we feel like we might be able to breathe again.
A lot of us show up here and read. And read and read and read. That was me for quite some time. Devouring posts new and old. Reading comments from longtime members like LLP, Sam A, Theresa, Hopeful30, Beach Girl (and so many others). I was constantly amazed that through their own pain, they were also shining a light of resilience and compassion. I got a lot out of learning about boundaries, that the other woman has nothing I’d want, that I’d best focus on my own care and feeding and worry less
about what the Waffle King was doing or thinking. Then, as part of my journaling, I wrote a letter to the other woman. I knew I would never send it to her,
on the advice of my therapist and because I in no way wanted to invite her any further into my life than she had already intruded. But. I took a big leap and posted my letter to one of the blogs about the OW.
And Elle responded. Suddenly, I was no longer alone and invisible in my pain. I had a voice. I had been seen and heard and someone said, “I see you. You’re gonna be OK.” I can’t explain how powerful that experience was for me.
My therapist had suggested to me that I build a three-legged stool for myself; a support system built of different people and things such that, when any one leg was not available, you still had two others you could count on. I ended up building an 18-legged stool, which included my sister, a few select friends, and a variety of health-care professionals and healers. One of the main legs became reading and posting to the BWC. It has all the healing and brain-clearing power of journaling with the added benefits of being
seen and heard and getting compassionate support and feedback from people who have been or are still there.
So, to address the headline above I have some suggestions for getting the most healing out of your time here. (With the understanding that everyone has the right to know what is right for them and participate, or not, at whatever level they choose):
1. Show up.
As Elle mentions in her post about the retreat, amazing things happen when you show up. Keep coming here and reading as long as you find it helpful. When you show up, you are not only being present for all of us. You are showing up for yourself, choosing your own healing. That’s a big deal.
2. Comment.
A lot of you don’t comment for a lot of very valid reasons. You’re concerned about anonymity. You don’t feel like you have the time or energy. Post-infidelity regular things can seem hard and scary, let alone posting to strangers on the internet. Recently New Mom said. “I don't post here often, mostly because nothing I have to offer is even remotely as profound or insightful as what all of these other wonderful women can offer.” I think her sentiments are like many who read and don’t post (and that’s really, really okay). I’m here to tell you that this is simply not true. Each of you has an amazing voice. Each of you has something to offer the others. It does not need to be poetry, or profound wisdom, or some ground-breaking insight. It can be as simple as “me too,” “I get it,” “my husband did the same,” “I felt the same,” “this sucks,” “you will be OK.” I give you all permission today to start using your voices, to post what is in your minds and hearts without it being perfect. You are also allowed to post about your own situations and pain. You are allowed to ask for support, empathy, commiseration, ideas or simply to be seen and heard. I’d encourage each of you reading this to comment below, “I am here” and see how that feels. (Tech support on doing this safely is posted in a link at the end of this.) I think, once you start commenting and interacting, you will find your healing turns a corner and ends up on a whole new track.
3. Take what you need.
Leave what you don’t. You are not obligated to visit and read and comment on every single post, in every single section, on every single day. We are not obligated to fix everything for everyone or hold everyone’s pain. That is impossible. I used to read everything and had subscribed to feeds for all the pages. But I found that reading the “Just found out” page posts were very triggering to me, so I stopped going there. I gave myself permission to feel no guilt about doing what was right for me. Once I knew I was on the separating and divorcing path, I stopped going so often to the Feeling Stuck page because reading about husbands who were at least trying made me very sad. Again, no guilt. I can likewise see why visiting the Separating & Divorcing thread would be terrifying if you are still trying to save your marriage. You are allowed to take what you need from this site. No requirements for visiting all the pages or making a certain number of comments or expectations of any kind other than “be kind.”
4. Ask.
Need a space for a particular topic and don’t see it available? Ask for it. That is how the Separating & Divorcing pages and the Sex & Intimacy pages came about. Do you have a post you’d like to try and write yourself? Ask. Need virtual hugs? Ask. This is a great skill for those of us recovering from infidelity to develop: Recognizing what we need and asking for it. Here is a safe place to practice.
5. Be Kind.
We are all going through our own things. Pain, post-trauma is magnified. We recognize here that each of us is thrashing out our own stories and paths. I’m invariably amazed at the patience and compassion I witness here.
I know some of you want to comment or leave a little footprint on the beach with us saying, “I am here” but have fears around taking that first, vulnerable step. One of our sisters at the retreat received some encouragement from her therapist to participate; to hit send. Her therapist was concerned she was further disconnecting, something we do, like wounded animals, when we’ve experienced trauma. Her assignment? Reach out. Let someone here know you need them or that they have spoken directly to you. Ask for help. That’s your assignment too. I know this community is richer for each voice, each woman who reveals herself here.
I will reiterate that no one other than you can determine what is the right level of participation for you.
If the idea of posting makes you feel sick or worried or anything, that’s okay. There’s no expectation or requirement for anyone reading this to do more than they wish. There’s no timeline.
Tech Support
I’m going to outline a few simple options for posting with anonymity and/or a screen
name. I will outline step by step and include screen shots. Because of the posting limitations, I’ve created this guide as a PDF which you can view here.
The kickass survival site for anyone who's ever been lied to, cheated on and left for dead.
Thanks SS1! I'd like to add one thing to the tech support. I don't have much luck on my ipad- it just seems to kick me out if I try to post under Name/URL & loses my comment altogether! Sometimes I will write up something in Word or Notes & then cut & paste here. That way I don't lose the post I carefully typed. I don't have any problems on my laptop. I might give the google thing a try.
ReplyDeleteYou're right on about how important anonymity is. The consequences for many of us, if unmasked publicly, could cause additional devastation. We've been through enough already.
Thanks Gem! That's a great tip. I often write out my comments in word, especially if it is one of my long, convoluted posts over in sep and div, because I often need to break it up into more than one comment. I'll be right up front and admit I've got zero exposure to the Apple side of things. Blogspot is a Google platform so probably plays best with their browser, Chrome. Not sure if that is even legal on an apple product. ;)
DeleteAnd yes, whether we stay or go, an exposure that we are not ready for could be devastating, triggering, expose a remorseful spouse to censure, piss of an unremorseful ex, etc. etc. So everyone being cautious and choosing to be safely anonymous is so very OK.
I often hear from people whose phones eat their comments too. Writing it out in Word first is a good idea.
DeleteI'm here...I don't know how to make my own post..sorry. But, I AM HERE!!
DeleteI am here.
ReplyDeleteI find myself reading more and commenting less. I’ve been in a weird place, doing a lot of introspection, and just not able to articulate my feelings. After reading what you wrote, maybe withdrawing isn’t benefiting me, but it’s a little easier than being vulnerable and admitting that some days I still struggle.
But I am here.
❤️
I see you Dandelion. I'm sorry you are in a weird place. Sometimes withdrawing is about taking space and slowing down and not trying quite so hard at this healing thing. I've often needed to do that.
DeleteI am coming up on three years this Jan and tho I struggle significantly less and would not say that I am triggered anymore (at least when it comes to infidelity) it still comes up. Sadness, regret, that confusion about how could he and new things like, did I ever love him or was it just some co-dependent hot mess? Do I know what love is? Was it a complete waste of time (with the huge and notable exception of my oh so amazing children)?
And if you live where seasons change, this time of year is just... hard, if you are me. Irritable, I want to eat all the carbs and go to bed until spring.
So you are not alone with struggles. I think all of use here have them. XOXO Dandelion
SS1, you made a great point about not trying so hard at healing. When I just let it all go and exist in the moment, it’s like a weight is lifted off of me.
DeleteI just had a birthday about a month ago... inching closer to 50 and recognizing how much time I’ve spent focused on what others think of me. And at nearly 50, I want to embrace who I am with no inner judgment. It’s baby steps.
And yes, the sadness and regret are tough. I read something about how healing is “giving up all hope of a different past”. If I could live in the present with my husband and what our marriage is now, who he is now... So simply put, but harder to live on a daily basis.
I’m looking out the window and it’s sunny and warm in my part of the world. I’ll send a little warmth and sunshine your way.
XOXO to you!
Dandelion! I was just reading some of your old posts and wondered how you were? So glad to hear from you! My 3 year D-day was in June and overall I am doing better but I still get triggers and I still cry and I still wonder how it the heck I landed here? I love SS1's response to you because just this morning I was asking myself all those questions! Yikes! I decided that I need to take a walk so I decided to walk to and from the bank this morning. It was just under 7 miles and it took me 2.5 hours. I walked new trails through the city I live in and being autumn, there were leaves all over the ground and everything smelled so "earthy" with a little light rain at times to cool me off. I wish these struggles were gone and I worry they will never go away but I'm still getting up every day and telling myself I am worth it. Love you and thanks for checking in.
DeleteHi, Beach Girl!
DeleteThanks for thinking of me. I am still here daily just not commenting as much. As I mentioned, I’ve just been doing a lot of thinking. I can’t say much has changed which isn’t necessarily bad. My husband and are still moving forward. I feel like his healing has progressed much faster than mine but I am most definitely in a better place than i was one or two years ago. I also still get triggered (far fewer though), I still cry too (sometimes I wonder how I have any tears left), and the fact that this is my reality sometimes still catches me by surprise even though i’ve been living it for overl three years.
Your walk to the bank sounds like it was a nice break. I find getting outside is so good for my soul. I’m hoping for you that the struggles continue to fade.
Hugs!
I think SS1's point about "not trying so hard at healing" is really important. I've written about it before (I usually call refer to it as "rest") but maybe it's time I revisited it. Thanks for the post idea! And for now, Dandelion, just rest. ;)
DeleteElle, please do! When I read that phrase “trying so hard at healing” from SS1, it really hit me hard. For the last few months....(which would equate to half of my post-discovery life)...I constantly wonder about the “how long”. (To simplify, it would be best for my husband if I just got over it. Real fast. Every other source suggests it might take longer.) My point is that until I read that phrase I didn’t realize that it was possible to be trying too hard. But, it is. And I have. It dawned on me that the phrase is absolutely loaded with so, so much,,,,but it all boils down to “who?” Who am I trying so hard for? Because it’s not me. I am working at turning the who into me. And while I do need to keeping trying, I give myself much more grace and patience with the process. And I deserve it!!!!
DeleteJust Me, For me what you are talking about was a challenge. I am type A, like to make a to do list, I like to get things done and accomplish them.... Well this is totally different. It seems the most similar to someone dying and the stages of grief. It is a process that takes time. And for me at least there were highs and lows and also set backs. Also one thing that threw me at about 18 months was my expectations were increased. I also felt at that time an uneasiness, things were so much better but then it started to feel like pre dday.
DeleteI am at 3 1/2 years past dday. Things are a lot better. Fur both of us this will always be part of our lives. My husband says he still thinks about it every day and/or is reminded about it in some way daily. For me I too feel it will always be present. At this point it is usually not in a negative or triggered way. We are to the point where the level and depth of our conversations are intense and many times touch on his betrayal. We often talk about something will make each of us feel like a trip out of town with friends, a day of golfing etc. We both hate that it happened but we cannot undo it. For my husband he says what he did and the second chance are a daily reminder to live with transparency and accountability to be the best husband and father. For me I am thankful that this guides my husband and he takes it all so seriously. I am glad we can have continued open discussions about how it affects me.
Saying all of that I agree give yourself grace, patience, time whatever you need. And do not be too hard on yourself. I took a lot of time to journal and think about what I wanted. Hang in there and take care of yourself!
I am here.
ReplyDeleteDandelion, I, too, still struggle. You are not alone in that.
I'm three years post DDay and every time I start to find my groove something throws me off track, it seems. Yesterday, I walked out into our garage where my husband was exercising and saw his wedding ring on the chest freezer (it is apparently giving him blisters when he lifts weights) and was triggered, and spiraled into thinking about how his ring must have looked on the hotel nightstand where he placed it during his encounters. So today, I struggle on...but I also still continue to hope that we all find the peace we deserve.
New Mom, I see you. Oh my heart hurts for you and that horrible vision. I'm so sorry. I know you were triggered and sad today. But I wonder if you can also, right now, see how far you've come, see how you bounce back a little faster. Think about how raw you may have felt right after d-day. And notice how it might now be quite so fresh now. I find when things to make me sad, it is more like a memory of a wound, rather than salt in a fresh one.
DeleteAnd you are so right; we just keep on. Hang in there.
XOXO New Mom
New Mom,
DeleteIt’s bern a little over 3 1/2 years for me. I am amazed (not in a good way) how things can really come out of the blue and throw me off track. I’m sorry for that trigger you experienced. I hope, like SS1 said, that you find yourself bouncing back faster.
And I, too, wish for peace and contentment for all of us.
Triggers are like ninjas -- hiding then pouncing when we least expect it. Hope you can replace that visual with a new one. The one of your husband placing his ring on a freezer so that he can work out. At home. With you.
DeleteI am the same way. We are 3 1/2 years past and I am still taken aback often by different things. For me personally I bring them up to my husband. It has been a good way for us to connect and support each other. And He has gotten good at listening and does not feel I should have to keep it in. I feel bombarded some days and weeks. Most of it not meaning anything but I see the world differently now. Our rings are a huge trigger for me. Our wedding bands matched. I realized shortly after dday that his was different. Well turns out he lost his original somewhere. He has no idea where. He said he looked everywhere. He claims he never took it off even when with the ow. So he went out and bought a new gold band. I honestly do not like touching it. I do not like wearing mine and only do when I have to. To me even though things are good they feel like false symbols since my husband said he never took it off. His has been known to fall off his finger but to not notice is saying something. Overall I feel like once I get it out and share it with my husband it helps. And Elle is right over time it is good to replace those thoughts and images. They call it a corrective emotional experience. It is a powerful technique but takes a lot of work on my part.
DeleteNew mom- my husband lifts and he lost his wedding ring on a guys trip. In all the years he’s lifted, removed it in the locker room etc. BUT NEVER misplaced it. He went on a guy trip (I still question) took it off for some reason and returned home with nothing. This hit me hard. It was engraved. It was 17yrs on his finger. He’s got a silicone one now and thinks it’s great. It’s cheap and meaningless in my mind. I would not purchase another out of my kind heart. I thought for days if this was a sign.
DeleteSince Dday rings are overrated for me. Words and actions are by far stronger. Try and find peace there. And if you chose...discuss the hurt of seeing it on the bed stand. Sometimes a painful conversation about a hurt triggered actually helps.
Thank you all for your kind words and input. I think rings are probably a big thing for most of us post DDay. My husband and I talked about why it was bothersome to me and he suggested wearing it on a chain around his neck when he lifts. Honestly, that's just not good enough for me. When everything came out about his cheating, I took his wedding ring and hammered it flat with his beloved tools. He asked for a long time to get to wear one again (I still don't, not sure I ever will) so for him to take it off is just so hurtful. Perhaps I'm being unreasonable, but I think he can deal with the damn blister. That said, the experience was a good reminder about the Ninja nature of triggers, and our responses showed me that we still have a long way to go on the road to recovery. Sigh. Here's to another day. Thanks again, warrior sisters.
DeleteNew mom
DeleteI’m triggered a bit by discussion of rings for several reasons, one my h told me that his cow told him that he needed to wear his wedding ring because if he had of had it on the first time she met him she would never have looked at him twice. That said, he lost his first ring in college riding his bike to class and then he couldn’t wear one on his first job because of osha regulation but I never thought about his until his affair and that became my first boundary. He almost lost that ring washing his truck and he about had a heart attack until he found it in the grass. I have not seen his hand without it since that first month, 4 years ago. My rings mean everything to me because I earned each of those with the vows I took and I didn’t earn my carrot diamond until 10 years of marriage and our first child’s first Christmas! I’m sure his is a daily reminder of his infidelity. To me it’s a reminder of his renewal of his commitment to us! Hugs!
Wow! Thank you for your perfectly-timed post! You have given me some needed confirmation that I "should" be braver about commenting. Writing has always been therapeutic because it forces me to organize my thoughts and search to find the exact right words to express how I feel, but I haven't been able to do it with the whole betrayal thing. I may also be having technical difficulties as I typed and bled all into a comment last week on an old post about GASLIGHTING, but it never showed up. Thank you to Elle and those others who help make this site what it is. Because so many of us are quiet, you might have no idea how many people you are touching and helping.
ReplyDeleteHi Just Me! I'm so glad you posted. I've found writing here so therapeutic. Its too bad about the lost post. Hopefully, even just writing it out was helpful.
DeleteXOXO Just Me
And PS there's no should, no pressure. :) you write when it works for you and not when it doesn't. But I'm glad you felt encouraged to write.
Just me. I'm sorry this site ate your post.
DeleteAs SS1 said, I also think writing can be incredibly therapeutic. It allows us to reclaim our stories, it helps us process our pain and it places us back in the center of our stories -- not on the periphery, which is how it can feel with infidelity. But smack in the middle. Where we belong.
Just Me - I've had that happen too. Like others when I try to post from my phone it always seems to fail. Sometimes though, it's just the typing it all out that I need in the moment. LOL and if truth be known, it not posting was probably just as well in my case.
DeleteI have found I can only comment when at a computer. My iphone or ipad does not work ever. I have tried everything possible and nothing works. I have just stopped posting when on my phone since they never show up.
DeleteI also would suggest even keeping a daily journal. I did not always write paragraphs. Sometimes just words or a doodle. This helped me so much since I could go back and look. For me it is hard to see how far I have come. And honestly even how strong I am. But looking back at my thoughts has helped me see that with more clarity.
Hopeful30 You are so right. Journaling helped me a ton, even when my handwriting was so bad that I could not read what I wrote when I got back to it. It was useful just to send it form my brain and out my hand. Gone. It often ended racing thoughts and the head spins.
DeleteAnd I see the same things. Like struggling now with this or that, but then I look back in my journal and am like hells bells, I was a hot mess back then. I'm cool as a cucumber now in comparison. So much stronger. So much kinder to myself. That has been the big one. (PS loved your recent comment elsewhere on voting - rock on!)
I am still in shock. On Friday night, My husband was arrested for drinking and driving. As if that was not enough, after his arraignment I went to pick up his truck from the side of the road I noticed his phone, which I hadn't seen in months, was in the front seat. Just a few minutes after I pulled the truck into the road, The phone rang and up popped a picture of A young girl wearing a bra. Remind you that my husband was still in jail, his 1st offense, and I was still dealing with the reality of the DWI. The girl, 22 years younger than I was easily coerced into telling me everything. I had to know...where they met, where they screwed, how many bouquets of flowers had he bought her. Unbeknownst to him, she had taken photos and videos of their dinners and long drives. And beknownest to her he had taken naked photos of her. I threatened to post them if she didnt spill the beans. This is all very new to me. It happened 3 days ago. We have 2 kids. He does not have full legal status here, so the DWI might be his ticket back to Honduras. What A mess.
ReplyDeleteOh Anonymous, I'm so so sorry for what you're going through. Right now, focus as best you can on keeping yourself okay. One foot in front of the other. I don't know how old your kids are but I bet they're frightened (and I know you are too).
DeleteDeep breaths, anonymous. And know that what you're going through right now is temporary. Moment by moment.
We're here to listen. We're thinking of you as you deal with this shock to your marriage and your whole family.
Also...I hope you can find a good counsellor who can help you navigate all this.
DeleteAnonymous, I am so sorry. I wanted to chime in on Elle's suggestion about counseling. I am ten months in but only sought individual therapy for myself last month. In retrospect, I wish I had done that FOR MYSELF sooner. Sending positivity your way!
DeleteAnonymous. I'm so sorry. You have so much on your plate right now. I'm sorry for what's happening in your life, but glad you've found us. There's so much support and help here. And while he definitely sounds like he has his own issues to sort out, my advice is for you to focus on you. Get a therapist asap. If cost is an issue, or you don't have good health coverage, many places (like churches) will offer therapy on a sliding scale. There are also plenty of lawyers out there who will give you a free consult. Not because I am advocating any legal action on your part, but just to help you understand what your rights are in this situation, especially if the DWI leads to other complications. As scary as it all is, sometimes having information can make it feel more manageable.
DeleteAnd the other thing? You are gonna be OK. Its hell right now, but you will get through this. Take is day by day, minute by minute, just like Elle says. Do you have family or friends that you trust who can support you in this time? It is OK to ask for help.
If you need us, have questions, or just want to scream and vent, please come back here. We're here with you.
I too remember finding this site - like no other - and wanting to share my story but scared to as it would expose me. Then I realised this is happening every where in the world. I was not alone and my story is so familiar with so many betrayed wives, I would just be another writer in this never ending world of betrayal. I know some women share this site with their husbands. I chose not to. He'd already taken away so much of my world, this was my piece of the universe he didn't have access to.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the support here has been so welcomed as I go through separation, as a wife and also a mom. Whilst my girlfriends have been a great support, there is nothing like the support of people going through the same as you.
I have shared my story with my friends. No hiding, we are now separated. I was wondering what he was telling his people...funny how he was leaving out the years of cheating, criticism, emotional neglect, financial bullying. No good pretending to society you are this good guy, so if people asked, I would tell people the truth.
The truth is you will have good days/bad days whether you stay married or divorced. With women sharing their story here, helps you get through those bad days realising you are not alone.
Hugs
Gabby xo
We're so glad you found us Gabby. And grateful you've shared your story and your ups and downs.
DeleteIncredible that he still can't own his actions -- pretending he's someone he's not. Pathetic.
Hi Gabby, how long have you been in separation? I've been separated for 4 months. I wonder how they can stay happy and cool knowing someone is suffering and sad.
DeleteFor me, i didn't shared to my friends on our separation. I am still hiding it for him but on the other hand he announced to people that we are in separation/divorce which make me hurt a lot.
He is lying that he is ALONE and there is no one out there. I do not understand his intention on this.
I hope that i will get through all this bad days real soon.
Gabby, you've hit the nail of the head. "There is nothing like the support of people going through the same as you." Glad you're here and sharing and offering support and kindness in turn. When I am having a bad day, I often picture all of you, like a ghost army, walking with me through my day. Like I can see you out of the corner of my eye, but if I turn my head you disappear, but I still feel you all with me.
DeleteHi Anon Oct 30 6:46pm
DeleteI am so sorry to hear of your separation.
My very first D Day happened way back in Nov 2005. We stayed together.
Next D Day Nov 2015. We separated Sep 2016.
I had not told anyone aside from my GP and therapist and family as he was living back with his mommy. He wanted to come back and asked in Dec 2016. I said "yes -but I have 3 conditions. 1 - counselling 2 - make me a priority 3 - I require complete transparency." He never responded. About 3 weeks later, he told me he could give me all that I ask, so I said ok.
I was desperate to keep our family together. Despite him coming to me asking to get back with me and assuring me he would give me all I ask, He couldn't do it and wouldn't do it. So from Jan 2017 - Sep 2017 I lived in a bubble of anxiety asking him "come on let's go to therapy" etc to which he replied "no, let's just move forward in our lives etc" and I knew he lived with continuous lies and then Sep 2017 he wanted out. So he took off....stupid idiot immature moron he is, took off with ANOTHER skank from his work. Yep. He was doing the rounds there.
My ex has MANY narcissistic traits and the thing is he doesn't care for anyone but himself. The second time he took off I started to tell close friends, but then because of where he works, it became known and not so hush hush so everyone knew. I no longer care who knows. This is all his doing - all the reasons are on him. They can see the real him which is just a worthless piece of shit. (get the impression I hate his guts???). My friends have been a rock of support, and those who decide to be friends with him - I have chosen to remove them from my life. I can understand how you feel. I too would have done anything once for my husband, but I decided I was worth more than this lying creep, and I was not going to stick up for him anymore.
I'm sorry to tell you, these guys will lie just to get what they want, and unfortunately, no marriage, no kids, no sex from you, no nice cooked meals will keep these cheaters when their head is in fantasy land with their skanks who are feeding their egos and cheating life style.
I'm sorry your husband sounds down right cruel. His actions and words show and tell you he is out of your marriage.
I know how scary and emotional it is being separated. You will go through another set of roller coaster of emotions but anon. Remember. You have survived D Day. You will survive this. Have you a good therapist, good family support? Come over to separating/divorcing pages here and vent and ask and talk all you want. We are here to listen and give great virtual hugs. You are not alone.
Thinking of you and sending many hugs.
Hugs
Gabby xo
SS1i wanna hug you for this brilliant blogpost! 1on the emotional stuff
ReplyDelete2on the technical
And I’m posting NOW from chrome on my iPhone.
The apple safari browser eats all! Which is why it looks like a never post. Lol. I do but they are eaten. if this posts we’ll know it’s a real life-saving post-saving thing!!
Ah. So THAT's the culprit. I hear that story a lot -- my phone ate my post. So Chrome is the answer!
DeleteYay! I'm so glad we all figured that out. Shout out to Gem for putting me on that track. <>
DeleteI am here! Last week was four years dday. I found myself a little sad but not as triggered as it was the first year. My h doesn’t seem to remember the time of year so we didn’t mention it out loud but I noticed that he was more attentive to my needs and he holds me close every night until I fall asleep. I’m still so very grateful for this blog and each one of the brave warriors that keep moving forward! I when I see update from the ones that traveled with me in my early walk through this pain! I’m sad for anyone that still struggles daily and I pray daily for peace for each of us! Hugs and much love to all y’all!
ReplyDeleteFour years. Wow, huh, Theresa? And look how far you've come.
DeleteYou're always this voice of calm and compassion and incredible quiet strength. You bring so much to this site. I'm grateful for your presence here and I know how much good you do for those who just need to know that there's someone out there listening to their pain. I've noticed the work you do here...and we're all richer for it.
Theresa, that's an amazing milestone! I am also grateful for your strong steady voice and that you still show up here to share experience and compassion. XOXO
DeleteThat is great. I find it interesting I know the exact day and time, my husband knows the general time of year since he was returning from being out of town for an annual event. So happy to hear the comfort you have with your husband. I am over 3 1/2 years and it is still there but in a different way. I think we try to use what we have learned to improve the present. Best wishes!
DeleteI’m almost 5 months out from DDay. My husband told me about his affair the night before I had to make a decision about talking a job in a new city. I’m glad that I had the guts to put myself and my daughters first (for once!) and take the job. At that point I didn’t care if he was coming with us or not. I had spent the last few months worrying about how I would support my family on my salary, and now I was going to make sure that I was okay no matter what. I strongly suspected the affair but didn’t know for sure. All I knew is that he completely withdrew from everything at home and was a jerk.
ReplyDeleteWe all moved and my husband and I are working on reconciling. I still hate him and the OW. Most days I feel like I’ll never forgive him - and I don’t want to. At this point, he’s doing everything he can to help strengthen our relationship. Now that I feel more confident that he’s going to stay, I find myself questioning whether or not I can even love someone that was willing to do this to me. We were seeing a counselor before the move and have an appointment with a new one here, so I’m sure that’s something we’ll talk about there.
The worst part has been that the betrayal has ripped open issues that were dormant in my life. I suffered from an eating disorder in high school, and this has triggered it again. And it has given weight to all of the unhealthy thoughts I have about myself daily. Like I have proof now of how worthless I am. I’m getting long overdue treatment now, but I feel like I will never be the same again.
Thanks to everyone on this site for their support and compassion. It really helps to know that you’re not alone.
Anon with new job, I'm so sorry for what you are going through, have been through, but you know you've found a good place. 5 months is so, soooo early in the scheme of things.
DeleteIts funny (strange funny) how we suspect but our minds are like, no it can't be that. I too noticed my then husband working more, withdrawing, being angrier and shittier with everyone at home. Lashing out at his sisters, buying new clothes, etc etc. Generally being a monumental dickhead.
Bravo to you for choosing yourself and your own financial security. That's huge. You know you can stay or leave and it will be entirely about what is right for you and not based on economics.
I think it is very normal at this stage to be filled with hate and anger at your H and the OW. As Elle often reminds us, anger is a mask for hurt and fear. Betrayal often brings up our old issues and hurts. It seems to confirm all the terrible childhood stories we learned to believe about our worthiness.
You may have read this here before, but I'm saying this directly to you: his cheating was never about you. It was never about you being not enough. It was entirely about his own low self esteem and whatever damage he brought with him.
I'm glad to hear you are seeing someone to help address those old wounds and the eating disorder (I also had one in my teen years). Prioritize your own healing. Take care of you. It is difficult but worthwhile. You deserve a happy and healthy you that loves who you are.
I know everything feels like shit right now. Just know that it won't always feel that way.
Keep coming back here and talk to us about how you are doing, where you feel stuck, or good things you are learning. You are going to be OK.
Anon 10/30 - It is empowering to figure out that you can stand on your own 2 feet if you really need to isn't it! You have the power of choosing for all of the right reasons instead of feeling trapped for all of the wrong ones.
DeleteUse that feeling when you feel the dysfunction bearing down on you. And reach out to your treatment providers as much as you need to in order to help you overcome the new triggers pushing you back into your eating disorders.
I too have battled with eating disorders across the course of my life. I am a closet binge eater and I know that my knee jerk reaction has always been to turn towards food to fill the void that is constantly there. I won't lie - it took me over a year to get control back from food. The first thing I had to do - forgive myself for the behavior. That's right ... forgive myself for this 1 weakness that I have.
You are worthy. So very worthy.
Anon,
DeleteNo you will never be the same again. But that's okay. This is the time to re-address that long buried pain. You're an adult woman who's capable and smart and who can help heal that girl who believed she wasn't worth loving or feeding or caring for. YOU can do this.
I believe that betrayal, for those of us with long buried pain, is particularly difficult. BUT...it forces us, to some degree, to pull that pain back out into the light and heal it.
It won't be easy, of course. But, as Kimberly writes above, it begins with forgiving yourself. NOT because you did anything wrong but because you betrayed yourself when you believed the lies that you are not worth loving.
The truth, of course, is that you are worthy of love and kindness and respect. He cheated because there's something wrong with him, not because there's something wrong with you.
It takes time to truly believe that, of course. But you'll get there. Again, it begins with being gentle with yourself, with being kind to yourself, with learning to love yourself not in spite of your foibles but because of them.
I am here...
ReplyDeleteI see you Donna. XOXO
DeleteAnonymous, You are NOT worthless. And no matter how much you believe that deep within your pain, there is never ever going to be any piece of proof that makes it so. Hugs!
DeleteDonna
DeleteI’m walking right beside you and you can take my hand any time you need a hug!
🤗
DeleteHi all from Melbourne, Australia . 2 yesrs after d day. You have been my faithful friends and my " go to" during some dark days. Thank you
ReplyDeleteHello Australia! I’m glad you posted! This is the best place to be when you live in this kind of pain!
DeleteHello Anon Oct 31 2:13
DeleteThis cheating is pandemic. It effects people from all over the world.
Hugs
Gabby xo
Welcome to Down Under. So glad you peeked out from the shadows to say hello.
DeleteHello Melbourne!
DeleteIt has been a while since posting anything. It almost feels selfish to come here when he does something so stupid, but it has been festering and I feel awful.
ReplyDeleteOn my birthday last month, he told me while he was working in Minnesota a few years ago, some young girl was all over him in a bar. He said it was just kissing. It was supposed to be a romantic beach getaway. Was told it was a long time ago and to not let this ruin our time. Seriously? The next day as we were touring St. Augustine, he pitched a fit about going back to the hotel, because he was tired and don't I understand he is old...(61).
His slut moved out of our neighborhood but isn't far away. Her boyfriend's family is well off, owns property about 5 miles away from us and they did a Halloween corn maze. Friends and neighbors were posting on social media about how great it is and while triggered, kept it to myself, but I did mention it eventually. His response? I'm glad she has such a happy life. Seriously?
I then left town for work and to see my son. It was great being away. During one of our conversations, I said I didn't want to do Halloween at all, no decorations, no candy. Just not in the mood. We do have some great decorations. He put them up and I bought candy.
Yesterday he says, what are you going to do if her kids come by. Again, seriously? He goaded me into such sadness, I wanted to stay home all day. I've applied for 5 positions at work this year, was rejected. I'm trying to start a small crafting business but feel less than inspired to make anything. I just feel old, ugly and worthless.
Beagle Mom - do not go there. You feel exhausted. You are emotionally drained but you are not old, ugly and worthless! Being kind to ourself is the hardest thing.
DeleteGo out to Etsy and get inspired today. You can do this. Believe in yourself!
Beagle Mom,
DeleteFeelings are not facts. Feeling "old, ugly and worthless" is code for "I need to practice self-care" because you are NOT old, ugly or worthless. So time to be gentle with yourself. No coincidence that you felt great being away for work.
Carve out some time for your creative pursuits. Literally block it off on your calendar. 30 minutes to start. No matter how you're feeling, just do it. If you're feeling inspired after 30 minutes, keep going. If not, then stop. But make yourself do it for 30 minutes. That's your time to lose yourself in crafting.
As for his asinine comments, I want you to pay attention to how they trigger a voice in your own head. In other words, it's not necessarily what he's saying to you but what you're saying to yourself. He's glad she's happy? Well, that could mean that he's completely moved on from feeling anything about her. So what are you saying to yourself about his comment?
He seems (forgive me for saying this) kinda stupid about talking with you about this stuff. Is he just clueless? Or is there some sinister motive to undermine you? How does he respond to your pain when you point out how his comments make you feel?
I don't think these are stupid at all. One thing I have worked hard at is listening to my thoughts/feelings and trying to help myself through those or at least to get to the root of them. I guess I kind of like to resolve them. Sometimes I realize they are no big deal but other times it is something I need to take action and talk with my husband.
DeleteI agree with Elle and her questions about your husband. I know at first at least my husband was saying how if I knew one of the ow we would be friends. Well that did not start a good discussion. He is more on the positive side of not wanting to wish anything negative on anyone and liking to see people happy. I have had and still have a hard time with that. My husband sees these women as not high caliber but he knows he was right there with them. He explains how he wants to find happiness he hopes they do too. And also he has said if they are happy then the chance of them ever entering our lives for any reason is greatly reduced. It is a hard topic. To me it is more his response to these situations and not understanding where you are. I would want to talk with my husband about that and where you are mentally and what support you need from him. Even now I will be very direct with what specifically I need.
Beagle Mom, I'm just here after everyone else with a hug. I know that old, ugly feeling. I sometimes still battle it even when NOT triggered by someone being a dummy. You are none of those things. Getting away gives us a chance to be more ourselves sometimes, without all the heaviness of our regular lives. I always try to notice that as it happens and think about how I can bring a little of it back with me. Hope you are feeling better.
DeleteI love all of you. Thank you for your kind words.
DeleteI am here
ReplyDeleteHello Silver Princess! Waving at you! Sending hugs!
DeleteSilver Princess! What a gorgeous image. Welcome.
DeleteWe've got you Silver Princess.
DeleteI am here...I have been here almost daily for over two years and like so many this has been a lifeline for me. Still struggling many days but also feeling stronger over time. I really battle feeling not adequate. I am embarrassed to admit it, but I even feel afraid to post because no response to a post can make me feel alone or with some illogical feeling of rejection. I am trying to reframe these negative thoughts in my mind. I appreciate the encouragement to join in....I appreciate this site more than you can imagine, Elle.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous my first few posts became ghost posts as well but I kept trying and I’m glad you did too! There’s nothing worse than feeling rejected! We hardly ever reject any one as long as they are posting nicely!
DeleteI have had that happen too. I honestly think depending on the post schedule they can get lost. I have had where no one has commented on a post and I post basically something similar on another post and get comments. I also sometimes read on my phone and cannot comment but now I know I can use Chrome instead of Safari and it will work.
DeleteFor me this site has been so powerful since it is as basic as someone saying "me too". And there is support, information and suggestions that have helped me so much.
If you are up to it keep posting, I know we all love to connect here.
Oh Anonymous, I remember that feeling well from my early days when I posted on other sites. Betrayal does a real number on our self-worth. But I hope that by now you realize how many of us walk this same path alongside you.
DeleteI also hope you're beginning to know that you are more than adequate. You are worthy of love. You are worthy of kindness and respect. But it starts with you, Anonymous. YOU have to show yourself all of that in order to teach other people how to treat you.
Challenge those nasty thoughts any time they arise. Because my guess is they're not based in any sort of evidence other than OTHER PEOPLE's bad behaviour.
Anon 10/31 I wish that wasn't so relatable. But I found, especially early on, the more I posted the easier I got and the less worried I was about was it good enough, was it fair, did I deserve support etc. because everyone was so kind and supportive.
DeleteOh, Anonymous--I am so glad you chimed in and also made your "embarrassing admission" because I am the exact same way. But for you, I would never admit how I felt when I made my very first post a few months back to answer the question, "What is your favorite nickname for the OW?" I bet I checked back at least 100 times because it hadn't gone through the administration to actually get posted until the next day. Oh, the feeling of seeing it in print online! And then my third post was just last week, and I all but bled into my computer but it never posted. (I think I realized now that I failed to hit the publish button a second time after I confirmed I was not a robot.) So, I totally get your feelings and fears about posting! I am so glad you gave it another shot to share what you just did because I truly feel less alone here because of you! Can I sit beside you??? :-)
ReplyDeleteP.S. The answer to the question is 'Chinese Massage Parlor Whore' but since we are friends now, you can just use the abbreviation 'cmpw'.
SS1 - barbara Evans google+ is exposed at the bottom. Not sure if that is intentional?
DeleteJust Me,
DeleteOhhhh...your post is making my heart hurt. I get really busy sometimes and there are a LOT of comments so I can't always respond. But please know that there are, literally, thousands of women on this site who are reading your words and smiling at their computers, or crying in solidarity.
And I always review posts as I moderate, mostly to sift out the spell casters and the hackers. But also to check if there are any "crisis" posts that I need to respond to right away.
Keep sharing, please. We all benefit from each other's experience and thoughts.
Heartfelt, thanks for the heads up. Barbara Evans is our graphic designer and web designer. She helped put together the logo and new look for the site. No affiliation. ;) She decided she didn't really care having her name there because, really, if anyone asks, she can say she does the design and web work. Which is completely true. xoxo
DeleteOkay :) maybe I missed this in an earlier communication. I’m clouded this week. The site looks fantastic and I appreciate all the hard work of everyone. I’m a Designer too, so appreciate all this talent. xo
DeleteSigh, I’m 3.5 years post Dday like a few of you. As much hell as I’ve endured I made it. It’s a good feeling to have made it.. in that respect I mean survived. The pain was so crushing and intense for a good 18months.
ReplyDeleteSo this week we are dealing with our senior daughter that had her college choice in the bag, playing a sport and got the major picked since mid summer. Met her first boyfriend and now everything is topsy turvy and not sure it will even be a go. She did a weekend with the team and it didn’t feel right. I so get the last minute ping of “am I making the right choice this doesn’t feel right. So she’s talking about other college visits etc. she’s really wrapped up in this boy and he’s just graduated and not going to college, but working. Doesn’t have the most supportive family, been kicked outta the house and living outside his parents home since before graduation. After 3 weeks of early summer dating he cheated on her and now she’s back with him.
Unfortunately, as a 15 year old (now 18) she learned first hand of her dad cheating on me. In my struggle the first few months I would hide in my walk in closet and cry and then move to the bathroom and clean it up and make myself available as a mother. I tried my best to cover the pain for my 2 kids and figured I had succeeded. Dday was April and by December she cornered me and blurred out...I think Dad is having an affair. I froze! I was taken back. The affair was Dec-April...8 months prior and done. We were making cookies and toy story was on and this blurt just literally kicked me in the gut. So, I dug down in and started the questioning as to why she thought this. She had spent many car rides going to sports with him. She cornered him at 15 for having KIK on his phone, etc. she saw the signs as a young girl and as we chatted I calmly confirmed her thoughts. She went to her knees. We hugged we talked we cried. Oh the terrible pain for her to have discovered this on her own. Went to therapy. Got it talked through but not directly with the H. I requested he speak to her and apologize. He did one time and then to be all neat and tidy it got brushed under the rug.
Part 2- so now this is coming back to haunt me. Today had a heart to heart with her to talk colllege and how this boy (that has already broke her heart once is polarizing her life and changing life plans). Last night he was here until 11 and this morning my H woke and found the boy had never really gone home. Parked his car around the block and entered in the window? Not sure. We had a blowout this morning and then this evening she said she didn’t feel safe here. She confided in me that she likes it when he stays over cause she feels safe.
ReplyDeleteSooooo has anyone else endured this? Her safety I would compare to my safety where you think what??? Everything I knew about my life is a sham and in a split second my safety and livelihood was at risk due to the affair and the fact that I stumbled on an email and confronted him. It’s a very lost feeling.
So tried to talk to the H and he said. Well just like a typical woman, she too can never forget this. The words escaped his mouth and I ever so quickly SHOVED them all back in. I reprimanded him! He hurt me yes, but as a young girl to think her dad that she looked up to had done this?? It was crushing for her. Man I feel like my triggers take me back. Never occurred that she too would have moments or the thought of it not going away.
So my problems are far from over. Her, the boy, his behavior, my h’s behavior and me trying to fix it all. I can’t control the past or my lack of understanding the fallout. I will write more as it unfolds.
Wanna crawl in a hole :(
Heartfelt - That's soul crushing. Both that she has been exposed to this from dear ol' dad ... but also from this boy. I have no words but wanted you to know I saw you on this!
DeleteOh Heartfelt, I am so SO sorry you're going through this. It will be really hard but I think you're going to have to try and separate what happened with you/her/her dad and what's happening with this boy because despite her history re. cheating/her dad, her behaviour is nonetheless not surprising for an 18-year-old girl. She's being impulsive and she kinda knows which buttons to push to get what she wants.
DeleteAs best you can, stay calm (I know, I know...easy for ME to say). Tell her that you have rules in the house (that surely she knows about) and her boyfriend is not welcome to stay overnight. She violated that and was dishonest about it, which isn't how an adult behaves (and, at 18, you expect her to being behaving like an adult). Don't get sucked into "but my dad..." and "but you..." and all that other stuff. If she wants to revisit all that, tell her she's welcome to but right now, you are addressing her behaviour re. this boy.
And then, I'd lay it out for her. How, from a mother's perspective, you're watching your daughter's promising future get swallowed up by a relatively new boyfriend who has already shown himself to be dishonest and sneaky (cheating and staying overnight). That in a healthy relationship he would WANT her to pursue her dreams because that's what healthy partners want for each other.
As much as you can, insist that she go to school. That she at least give it a semester or a year and then you can discuss whether she wants to revise plans. I think in the short term, you mostly want to get her thinking for herself again, not through the lens of this guy who seems to be squandering his own future.
Young love is crazy and heady and tunnel vision. But it's also, usually, short-lived.
Hang in there, Heartfelt. And, again, try and separate out her behaviour right now (which isn't unlike lots of 18yo girls totally smitten with the wrong guy) from what happened re. your husband/you/her. I'm not saying it's not kind related but it's not that what happened led directly to this.
Heartfelt. I am so sorry. For me one of our kids is a lot like my husband. We went through a major issues 2 1/2 years after dday. We were actually sitting in the same spot where I confronted my husband on dday when talking with our child. It was very hard for me since I was hearing almost the same exact words and line of thinking out of my child's pre teen mouth.
DeleteI agree with Elle's thoughts and we have dealt with this and our older child. I think separating the two is critical. Our child does not know about his affairs. We both suspect it would change our family dynamic a lot. Have you seen a therapist that can help you navigate this? I am lucky in many ways since my husband is a therapist. It is paying off now with teens. We were not at this stage with our child but the person they were dating was pushing them to meet without us known and sneaking around. Our child stood our ground. I knew something was off and read through their phone one night. His goal when having the conversation was to have our child realize the best option was to breakup with the person they were dating. There were a lot of other issues and concerns but a huge one was pushing to sneak around behind our backs. Our child is younger and was not on board so it was not a leap. It took a lot of navigating and support from us. These kids are under so much pressure academically and athletically then throw in college decisions. Yikes! Do you have a coach, consultant, counselor or anyone else who can help with the college decision? I always say that if we make a plan then it will not feel so hard. It helps my kids a lot.
Heartfelt, Im just sending you a giant hug. The teenage years are intense enough without this other stuff thrown in. I think Elle has given you some great advice about not getting the two dramas too intertwined. My oldest, a girl, had so much relationship drama and often vented to me about it for long stretches and honestly we covered everything including early childhood resentments and perceived omissions. SO yes, drama and they'll do what they can to shift attention etc etc. Sometimes I just had ot let her run down and sometimes I had to circle back to "this is the thing we really need to look at" Good luck. I hope things settle down for you. Giant hugs
DeleteSS1
DeleteThank you!
Oh Heartfelt, I feel for you. I would have responded to you exactly how Elle did and I will add a true story that struck fear in my heart way back when my daughter was 18. She was working and going to the local community college when she told us she planned to move in with her 20 year old boyfriend. Yikes! My husband and I talked about it ahead of time and then invited them to come chat about it. She sounded so mature and sure of herself at first and then I asked, "How will you get to and from his apartment for school and work?" She said, "my car". We said, "No, the car belongs to us and stays here." She asked about furniture and we said, "No, you can't take any furniture." She said, "What? You said that when I graduated my best friend and I could have some furniture to move out!" We said, "Yes we did but you are not moving out with your best friend." We told them that at 18 we could not stop her from doing what she wanted but we did not have to support the plan or her if she made that decision. It went on from there. She chose to stay home and we were able to talk more about being an adult and what that meant. She is a responsible and mature wife and mother now. Good luck. It's a minefield out there as a parent.
DeleteKimberly and Elle, thanks. That really helps to break things down. Thanks a ton for your feedback.
ReplyDeleteHopeful 30, yes we started this college process the end of 10th grade. My H has been one of 3 coaches (traveling league and HS that has guided her) and has taken her to probably 15 colleges. She’s gone to camps, talked with coaches over the phone and is still actively being recruited by D1 and D2 schools. She felt best at this D3 school with a great athletic program and academic program and small class sizes. She created a spreadsheet to outline all her requirements and landed on the one D3 college with the most checks. So she definitely thought this through and I appreciated that my H did not push her in a direction he thought she could go. She verbally committed in August on her own. This boys response (when they were broke up) was...I can’t belive with a decision like this you didn’t consult me. She told a family friend about this statement and their reaction was...wow he sounds controlling! So she heard that from another.
ReplyDeleteSo it’s just a delicate spot. Don’t want her to run away with him. She’s talked of moving out!
I will just try out some of Elle’s ideas to reel her back with some common sense. Thanks again for your insight and help.
So much to deal with! It sounds like you have done all the right things. We are one year behind you in a similar situation academically and athletically. I can understand your concerns. It is so hard to predict these teens. And the pressure they are under. I know when you add in the athletics it amps up the pressure big time. It feels like forever to them. And with the cost of college being at extreme levels it puts even more pressure. When an undergrad degree at many of these D3 schools will be over $300k and then grad school. Then layer on the boy. Ugh. How did she like her therapist? Keep us updated!!
DeleteUpdate: she left last Thursday and has not returned home, but for a 15 min visit with my H. She’s living with this boy’s dad, sister and him. She got angry about us not giving her a car to use, money etc AFTER she left. I got her out of HS for the day on Wednesday to talk face to face. She gave me an hr. We talked over school, college, our relationship and I stressed she needs to be at home. She would have a car, shelter, food, financially better off to prep for college. I got tearful, so she moved to my side of the booth and sat and hugged me. So...very little progress. She’s 18, headstrong and making her own decisions now. The pain and heartache is very similar to the affair. I’m not hungry and in a fog. I know this well, so trying to eat, exercise and get through the long work day. Focus is hard.
ReplyDeleteShe’s smitten with him, yet I worry about her depression. On the flip side, maybe her growing up fast in a short time by being financially responsible and figuring things out is just what she needs.
Elle, I had never heard the proverb you threw out a few weeks ago, but it hit home that day.- “When we're holding on to our child's hand, it gives them one less hand to use.” I’ve done all her wash, cleaning and I smooth out life’s wrinkles always for her. With her anxiety, depression, etc she’s always shown she can’t handle things. I do it and make it all better. Parenting fail :( I’ve been a good mom, I know. It’s just hard when one in your heard is challenging. She’s been headstrong like this since seriously 2 months old. All I can do is express my love to her and let her know I’m here.
Oh my god, Heartfelt, I am EXACTLY in the same position and I need to pay attention to my own advice. I am constantly running just ahead of my daughter (anxiety, bipolar) to clear the way for her so that she doesn't have to struggle any more than she already does. And it is doing her a disservice because rather than learn to be capable, she's learning to feel helpless. Parenting fail here too.
DeleteMy daughter too is incredibly headstrong (the doctor commented on it when she was an INFANT).
So, yes, all we can do is love them through their struggles and trust that the foundation we've given them -- that core love and belief in their worth -- will ultimately guide them. I think now that yo've said what you needed to say, I wouldn't keep repeating it. Keep meeting with her when she'll agree to it and, perhaps, just listen to her without judgement. When we give them nothing to push back against (or rebel against), sometimes they'll realize that they're only hurting themselves.
Fingers crossed, Heartfelt. Keep taking good care of yourself (which, incidentally, models self-care to her and those around you). We're all holding you in our thoughts and our hearts.
Elle, thanks. Yes, totally agree with all your advice here. I will keep my chin up. Things could be worse. Xo
ReplyDelete