Oh, to have a crystal ball. Or even a Magic 8 ball that offers up something more decisive than "Ask again later".
Perhaps better than relying on outside oracles is to learn to tap into our own. Problem is, mine often seems to be dozing. I can sometimes nudge her awake with meditation or a solitary walk.
But too often, if she's offering up any answers, I can't hear them over the sound of my critic. The one who reminds me how often I'm wrong about things. The one who urges me to rely on others' advice instead. The one who whispers "you'll regret this".
Iyanla Vanzant, who writes "Iyanla, Fix My Life!" in O Magazine, recently tackled the "stay or go" question. Phrased as "How Do I Know When I'm Settling for Less?" it might as well have read "How Do I Know Whether to Stay With My Cheating Bastard of a Husband? because "settling for less" is what we often feel we're being asked to do.
Iyanla is a wise woman who knows a thing or two about betrayal. She also knows a thing or two about nudging that sleeping inner oracle awake. Her approach is to make some observations.
For instance, when your focus is on the time and energy you've invested in an endeavour [or person] rather than the love, joy, and gratification you've gained, you're probably settling. It doesn't matter if you've spent five years or thirty with someone if many of those years have been unfulfilling. But if you can honestly say that, within the time you've invested, you've experienced much joy and contentment, then it might be worth a second chance. The emphasis isn't on the investment but on the returns you've already experienced.
When you're making excuses about why you should stay put rather than going for what you truly want, you're probably settling. Sometimes we truly need to stay put in order to create circumstances that allow us to leave safely. But it's important to be honest with yourself about whether those reasons for staying are legitimate or simply excuses to allow indecision. If you stay, make sure that's a choice and not an abdication of choice. Similarly, if you leave, make sure it's a choice and not something you feel you should do because that's what our culture would have you believe.
Perhaps the wisest question we can ask is that age-old Ann Landers nugget: Am I better off with him or without him?
If you can't hear your inner oracle over the deafening sound of your own breaking heart and our culture's collective roar to kick him to the curb, then the wisest course of action might be what the Magic 8 Ball recommends: Ask again later.
Another brilliant piece of writing. Thank you, you always give us something to ponder. One thing my therapist talked about was that we tend to pick similar people, so even if I left my husband I felt there might be a good chance the next guy would have the same personality flaws that led to where we were. It takes a whole lot of counseling to see the patterns in ourselves that contributes to relationship problems, doesn't it? And at the end of the day, I felt no other guy would put as much effort into parenting his children as he would. For me it was a good choice but might not work for others. Finding that inner oracle is darn hard
ReplyDeletePilot's wife,
DeleteMy dad said something to me a few years ago about the men he would see at work and how they'd leave their wives, citing a laundry list of what was "wrong" with the women...and then marry new women who were pretty much carbon copies of those they'd left.
We tend to pick dance partners who know the same steps as we know. Which is why, even with our existing partners, we need to learn a new dance.
Your dad was exactly right. Referring to my earlier post I hope I didn't give the impression that everyone should just stay. If there is violence, drug or alcohol addition, I think these are definitely hard issues to tackle. And I would definitely draw the line at domestic violence. As a child who grew up in that for the first twelve yrs of my life, I would say Get The Hell Out! Abuse is generational and this is very important...when the mother is abused, the child is abused. That I learned in therapy and have carried those scars forever. You can't ask a child living in a war zone to go to school and learn or at least without a great deal of intervention. Some kids do learn resiliency but most often not.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how you do it, but your posts are always so relevant to how I'm currently feeling. This post and the previous post were exactly what I'm dealing with. It's uncanny, like you're in my head! It just shows that you know what I'm going through, what we all are going through. That the details of our individual stories are unique, but we all share the same pain and doubts.
ReplyDeleteI don't know whether to stay or go. Both paths are equally frightening, so I'm stuck not making a decision at all. It's not living. You've given me some things to think about, thank you.
AJ,
DeleteNot sure when the A-Bomb was donated in your life but it absolutely takes time to even begin to think clearly about your next (perhaps life-long) move. Don't pressure yourself to make a decision before the dust has settled. Most experts recommend six months to even a year, which seems like a lifetime, but you'll find that the roller coaster ride is slowing down at that point and you're far better able to respond than react. It also gives you a chance to determine if your husband is willing to go the distance with you -- and do whatever it takes to get clear on his own issues.
So take a breath and trust that it will become more clear.
As for the posts...yep, pretty clear on what we all go through. The details might look different but the rest? Just comes down to fingerprints. :)
I feel stuck as well. It has been close to 2 years since I found out, and a year since I made a decision to stay. No wait, actually it was his decision that we should stay together, and as I read the post above, I realized, I just settled!
DeleteI've been settling for a really long time, not doing what I want to do, to please him, to keep confrontations to minimum or just avoid. I feel drained, and resentful.
Any suggestions on how to break out of this?
Of course you feel resentful. The worst betrayal is when we betray ourselves. You need to get really clear on what YOU want. A better marriage with this guy? Or are you ready to move forward without him? Two years is long enough to begin to see positive change in your marriage. If he's continuing to control and manipulate you – and you're allowing it – then the unhealthy dynamics remain. It's time to either rebuild your marriage, or walk away. Choice is yours, J.
DeleteI really appreciated this post. I feel that is a question we should definitely ask ourselves whether or not to stay. I feel that I have been asking myself that almost daily. I feel it is harder when you aren't dealing with abuse though. My first marriage ended because of physical abuse and was very short because of it. This time my husband wasn't abusive but did have an affair after i had become emotionally distant from him. I thought originally if he ever cheated on me that I could just easily decide to leave. I suprised myself when I changed my tune and told him I would work on reconciliation. Sometimes I fear I am not being true to myself. It hasn't been the 6 months yet since d day so I know I haven't given it enough time yet. We seem to be in a honeymoon phase at this point of our marriage again. Being loving towards eachother. We have been in counseling which has been going well. I fear that as everything calms down we will be back where we started. Now I don't blame myself for his affair but I feel it was a symptom of problems already there. It was a dumb way for him to handle it. He seems to be working on his issues he had like communication and I am working on mine. He did say he didn't want me to just stay with him because I felt I had to instead of really wanting to be with him. That is tough thing to figure out so soon after d day. There are days I feel happy about my decision and other times I question myself. I would love to have that inner oracle tell me what to do. I do feel for now this is the right thing to do while I get my head straight and figure it all out. I do know financially I would be fine if I left since I have my own career. It would be hard on the children though so I want to be positive if I leave it is what is best for everyone.
ReplyDeleteAs muddled as it might feel, I think you're exactly where you should be right now. You seem clear on your own boundaries and willing to give him the chance to prove to you that he's worth that second chance. And "right now" is pretty much all any of us can ever count on. Assuming that the rest of our life is somehow "guaranteed" is an illusion. Anyone who's gone through betrayal, or a cancer diagnosis, or the loss of a child or any of life's other curveballs knows this very well. We have today. Right now. That's it.
DeleteElle
ReplyDeleteI am glad you created this site. You give positive words and encourage everyone to make the best decision for them. I made the mistake of looking at another site for inspiration and it was one of those once a cheater always one. The theme was you should leave and how everyone was planning to do it. I found it not helpful at all. It also said reconciliation never works wow you proved them wrong.
I suspect I know the site you're talking about. She's witty and smart with lots of catch-phrases, but quick to eviscerate anyone who doesn't see things her way.
DeleteI wish it was as simple as she proposes -- like cutting out a cancer. But I often wonder at how much anger there is on her site (I haven't been on lately; and I discourage anyone who's still feel fragile from going to her site. It can feel really judgey and cruel). If everyone is so delighted with their choice, then why such vitriol.
Vive la difference, I guess. But I think it's unnecessary and hurtful when anyone going through the agony of betrayal is treated as if their response is somehow wrong. As Shawn the Wife so beautifully puts it, there are many paths to happy. We each must find our own.
Hey girls I think I'm having a bad day, lately things have been pretty good but last night H. made a comment that got me up taking more Ambein. I didn't take over my Dr's. amount but more than I normally take. He just made a comment that I picked up on and of course it has carried on in today. I don't want to ruin his day but I need to talk to him. Please pray that I can get the courage. I don't want to fight. Things have been going really good these last two weeks.
ReplyDeleteNow for my short coming. I think I broke one of our rules of our club. I thought it was funny while I was doing it but now I'm starting to get cold feet. I don't know if any of you have this in your town but here we have some kind of a gossip website where people can almost get by with posting just about anything. I found it by accident just Goggleing different things. The website is called Topix I hope I spelled it right. I posted somethings about the Main St. whores hopeing I can get some married men to respond I want to post there names on my Facebook. Of course my husband has taken over my facebook I sure wouldn't want him to see it. I can't help but want some responses.
Lossing,
DeleteI think you're distracting yourself by focusing on the women and any men who use their services. That's, and I'm saying this gently, none of your concern. I understand your anger, but behind that anger is hurt. And it's your pain you need to address, not others' actions.
Question: Why has your husband "taken over" your Facebook?
Lossing,
DeleteI agree with Elle. Your anger directed at the women is because you feel enormous hurt but to be honest no one held a gun to your husband's head to visit the hookers. That was his choice and one of the consequences is that you got a STD. For yrs, I focused on the other women because it made it easier to stay. Right after D- day I kept two suitcases packed in the closet for me and my kids plus I took out some get away money. And everyday that I saw the suitcases I felt some power that I could leave or I could stay. At the time I had a teaching contract that wasn't over until June and when I reached the end of the contract I had calmed down enough to do some serious counseling and start to let go of the anger.
Another thought on Ambien tho. It can be addictive and in some people it triggers nightmares. I recently weaned myself off with my doctor's help because of nightmares. I do understand the need for it but just be careful.
I hope you can start to let go of the idea that your husband is the boss. You're not living on a plantation, it's 2014 and women have gotten the vote. As we age, we realize even more that we're here for a very short time. You were not put on earth for him to boss around or to be afraid that if you rile him up things will go bad for you. That is abuse and so not right. Please talk to your clergy or counselor. Life is indeed short.
Hey anon
DeleteWhy has your husband taken over your Facebook account. You need to focus on yourself and healing not what other people are hooking up. I would take the time to figure out why you were upset about your h comment. I don't think you should have to walk on egg shells because you don't want to fight. He after all is the one who had the affair. He should be sensitive to your feelings. I think communication is important to reconciliation. Are you in counseling to help during the recovery if not it wouldn't be a bad idea. It would be a good place to bring up hurtful things he says andhelp to have that unbiased person there.
Hi lossng, just wanted to chime in with some useful info about the ambien thing. A good number of people have had experiences of getting up in the middle of the night and walking around, cooking grilled cheese, or doing whatever and then having no memory of it the next day. There are actually some documented cases of people getting into their cars in that zombie-like state and doing other dangerous things while under the influence of ambien. Sleep walking. Funny, but dangerous. And please know that I am on nothing resembling a high horse and I am not in any way anti-pill or against the idea of sleep or anti anxiety meds for people, especially people going through something like this. I'd just recommend that you try switching to lunesta or maybe Valium, which despite it's addiction potential has very little side effects. Just be careful :) hope you feel better soon
DeleteOh gosh, you're so right. I don't know why I gave up my facebook except when I got my phone I started using it and I just let him have it. When school was out a friend was going to come over and fix his own Facebook but after he pulled his time on Main St. I thought better of it and kept it like it was so I can keep a closer eye on him. All he does is watch people's posted videos. He never watches anything that's not ok. Or that's what I see he never tries to hide anything.
ReplyDeleteI see I'm wasting my time, I know me to well I would never in a million years post anything on my facebook that would bring other people trouble. I don't talk to other people except very few very close friends. Here is the only place I speak freely. The post I thought I put on Topix or whatever it is I couldn't find. So hopefully it didn't make it on. I would really like to work in the soup kitchen this winter. I know I would surly run into some of the girls, maybe not the ones John used. I just fill so sorry for those poor little young girls. They aren't doing what they are because they like it. The ones he used are on drugs and are doing what they are to support their habit. Most of the time I would say the law looks the other way. Till they see them flat out breaking the law. I wouldn't want to make life any harder on them than it already is.
The Dr. Just called and both H. and my blood work is fine. Now H. not convinced. He thinks he got something. He says next time he's going back to VA. Oh well what ever floats his boat. Poison Ive is poison ive. I told him last week when he was in the weeds that it was full of poison. He want listen to me so what do I know.
I love my husband but if he wasn't so stupid I'm not quite sure what I would do to him. He worked all day cleaning up my sewing room. I sure would like it if we could just talk.
After 38 years I fill I will never know nothing about his heart. When I think about it it breaks mine.
Oh Lossing...you make me laugh ("I love my husband but if he wasn't so stupid I'm not quite sure what I would do to him.") and then in the next, you break MY heart ("He worked all day cleaning up my sewing room. I sure would like it if we could just talk.") I hope you'll try and talk to him. Or I hope he can just sit still and let YOU talk.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime, I'm glad you've thought better of your plan to "out" the prostitutes and their clients. As you noted, they're just doing what they do to get by. The availability of sex isn't the problem. It's husbands betraying wives (and vice versa).
You are so right. I need the courage and prayers to do just this. I've spent my hold life trying to keep him happy. I want to do that to but if I don't get a grip on this what's it's going to be next time. Thanks. Yes I was in counseling but I quit because it upset him so. He refused to go. He went off on me and it was easier to get along with him than hear him go off. He has been sooo good lately. He's cleaned up my sewing room for me now he's getting ready to do my pantry. He cleaned out the basement so good this week. Anything but talk. I would love to talk to him about us. Thank God that post I thought I put on Topix didn't make it. Some one must have thought I was a hooker looking for married men when I asked for 25 very married men to respond to my post. If they had I probably would have had a heart attack. I decided if they did I was going to tell the police. They wouldn't have time to set these guys up they are to busy trying to keep up with the crime that is already in progress. See here I go again focusing on other people's crime instead of H.'s.
ReplyDeleteThanks
ReplyDeleteBeing 10 mos. past DDay, I am feeling strong enough to start dealing with our relationship and putting MYSELF back together. For about the first 9 mos. it was all about asking him questions about the cheating (he spent 8 yrs. going using escort services) and a lot of time spent feeling very bad about myself. I spent hours looking thru phone records, bank accounts, his phone,iPad, etc. and all our endless conversations seemed to be around things like this: what did "they"look like, did they have big boobs, were you physically attracted to them?, where, how etc....
ReplyDeleteI was suffering from incredibly low self-esteem that I tried to fix by changing my hair, going to the gym, buying lacy underwear, etc.. and trying to please HIM the way he was used to getting.
Now, I am re-claiming myself thru my own individual counseling thankfully! I insist that he start his own individual counseling also. (he did start, just not sure how honest he'll be). At some point, we may go back to marriage counseling but for now I have to focus on myself. I had gotten lost in the rubble of the infidelity, some of that my own doing by spending so much time deflecting on the details of it.
You girls who are further down the road of recovery know that eventually we have to find ourselves again and deal with our feelings~that incredible hurt and pain that we feel will crush us if we acknowledge it. The hurt and pain we try to run from by focusing on all the other stuff, and especially keeping the fire raging in the anger department.
I go back and forth on should I stay or should I go. All I know now, is that my feelings for him are not the same. He says he loves me, but time will tell, as I need him to show me some real changes. Not just to stop cheating but to deal with issues like communication, intimacy and honesty. J.
J,
DeleteYay for you for taking care of yourself. It's crucial that you make yourself and your own healing your priority. Only when you feel on solid ground can you make a choice about your marriage that is rooted in what you really want and not just a reaction to fear, hurt, humiliation.
And you're wise to insist on him seeking counselling too. Without "managing" his recovery, you'll nonetheless be able to see that he's making positive changes (or not), which will help you assess whether you want to stay in the marriage or not.
Many, many of us went down the same rabbit hole as you (the endless sleuthing, the comparing, the lacy lingerie...). I'm glad you've emerged and treating yourself with compassion and respect.
I agree with you about the communication, intamcy, and honesty. I know for me these were issues we both had prior to d day. We are only 2 1/2 months out but I do see the communication thing improving with us. We had started counseling before he fully disclosed. He asks me daily how I am feeling and whether I have been feeling depressed. I have some better days then others. I am on antidepressants which have been helping. The oddest part of this whole thing is I feel better and calmer when he is there. We work different shifts so our time together is limited. My counselor has encouraged me to take up hobbies to help me feel better about me. Still having a hard time getting there. Lately I sleep alot which just a month ago I hardly slept. I do try to get up and fix myself up to make me feel better about me. I do know atleast right now I do want to stay with him which is odd for me since I'm an indecisive person. I just wish the ow wouldn't creep up in my mind randomly. It's hard too because she was alot younger then me, not in better shape tthough (I hang on to this when I start comparing)
DeleteSo many of have trouble keeping those nasty thoughts of the OW or the affair at bay. It gets easier. Try and distract yourself when they come up. Focus on what you have now (better communication, for instance). But key is also recognizing that the affair was never about her. She was convenient. She was available. But she really didn't matter.
DeleteI have been meaning to try and get all my emails answered. I have to be very careful with what kind medication that I take. Yes I've tried Lunesta that was some bad stuff for me. I couldn't take it. Yes years ago before Valium was watched so closely as it is now I did take it some. I never even got close to being addicted 30 pills would last me a year they took those away and put me on Hosions spelled wrong. Those worked good then they took those away and put me on Zanax. I'm still taking them as needed. I've been on them since 1/95. They work good I still am not even taking a mg. of those. I've had trouble sleeping for years since I was 21. My half of Ambein works fine. Yes you're right I've heard of people sleep walking on them too. A friend of mine woke up down in the barn with her goats but I've taken them since 07. I do appreciate your help trying to help me find something that might work better.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone ever had this problem before. It's killing me and I've got to find out why? I can't seam to bring myself to do anything that I use to do. I've let my nails go one fell off yeasterday. I think I could do em myself but I can't get to the supply house to get what I've been needing. I don't want to hang out with my girlfriends anymore. The only place I go now is church. I use to watch tv all the time now I can't hardly get through the news. In other words I'm not doing nothing that I use to enjoy doing. My best friend I hardly talk to. I don't know what is wrong with me. I'm not depressed now. I don't want to leave John home alone anymore. My girlfriend asked me Yeasterday if I was afraid if I got out that I might run into one of the girls. I don't think that's it. I never went to DQ much anyway.
Hi Elle Great post! I am just shy of 4 months since D Day and here's my problem.. My husband and I are still separated. His erratic behavior and sexual addiction reared its ugly head after he left. He is in another city and living in an apartment due to his new job. We came to a huge crossroads last week where he finally agreed to get help for his addiction. Although his attempts at therapy are moving slow (in my opinion) he does "throw me a bone" every few days by texting me that he has been porn, strip club free for over a week. Here's the problem...while he's said he doesn't want a divorce he's never said he wants to stay with me. He is in the process of working on himself right now, and working on ourselves is what we agreed to after the MC said we should quit MC and do this. I feel like I'm in a holding pattern. On the days he sends me a nice text I feel like theres hope in the marriage. But then he makes the decision not to come home for two weeks and I'm back to being filled to anger and dread. I know he's got a lot of work to do on himself but I still feel like I'm being put last in the process. And does living apart help or hurt the situation? My fears arise and I think he's just trying to have his cake and eat it to - he may be working on the sex addict thing, but he's got no responsibility toward me and the kids by being away. Today, instead of visiting for the weekend, he told me he was going sailing with friends...really??! I'm sitting at 6am on my computer reading self help blogs and you are bettering yourself by sailing??! Help!!
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry. I just saw this post.
DeleteYou're right that he's being something of a cake-eater. Have you asked him directly what it is he's working toward? What, exactly, is he asking of his family? If he's expecting you and your kids to wait while he heals, then what, exactly, does that mean? Does he have a timeline? What are the expectations re. spare time? Are you free to leave the kids with him one weekend and go sailing?
It seems as if he remains entirely self-absorbed (a hallmark of addicts, of course) and that you're being somewhat co-dependent. You need to get clear on what your expectations are and then communicate them clearly. Are you counselling yourself to learn to set clear boundaries around what you will and won't put up with? This isn't about being dictatorial, it's about self-care. Doing what's necessary to keep yourself emotionally safe and able to heal.
I'm not having any indecision, but my H is. He had a very intense emotional/sexual affair with a woman that lasted two years. He has recently told me that he still thinks of her and has feelings for her in a small way....but he loves me too. When I asked him why he hasn't told me this before he said he was afraid to bc I was such an emotional wreck after the affair. Honestly, I felt like I was on the brink of insanity so I probably couldn't have handed that at that time. He said he just pushed his feelings to the side and concentrated on me. Now that I was feeling stronger he felt it was the time to tell me. We have talked about divorce and what that would mean for both of us. I know that I don't want a divorce. I want my husband back and to be all mine. I realize that may not happen and I'm trying to prepare myself for it. He asked me to give him some time to sort things out. He says he knows that what he feels for me is true love and he's not sure if what he feels for her is real or just part of the fantasy. I really believe that's what it is. But I can't continue to live like this, wondering if she is really out of his system. I feel like I've read somewhere that this is normal for him to feel this way. I don't want to lose him, but I will walk away if that's what I need to do. I just want to know if anyone else has experience with this?
ReplyDeleteWhy did he choose this time to tell you? It strikes me as rather self-indulgent for him to discuss his feelings about her (within the context of "I don't know how I feel") with you. This is something he should be talking about with a therapist not his wife.
DeleteWhat you expect of him (that he be a husband in every sense of the word) is legitimate. His one foot-out-the-door approach is unnerving to say the least. If you are his "true love" then what the hell does it matter what he feels about her. It takes a long time for genuine feelings about someone to totally dissipate. He's not in high school -- he should know this. But sharing that with you seems like he's almost challenging you to make the choice to stay or go.
Are you in couples counselling? That might be the place to work through this.
That's exactly how I feel. I feel like he is in a maybe not even conscious way, wanting me to "pull the plug" so to speak. He said the reason in told me was because he didn't want to have any more secrets from me. All cards on the table. Yesterday was her birthday and I could tell he was having a bad day. I just can't understand it. For 6 months he has been nothing but attentive and supportive and then when I am starting to regain my footing he drops this bomb shell on me. We were in counseling, but honestly neither one of us got anything out of it. The guy just basically nodded his head, validated me and that was it. It was very frustrating. This entire situation has been frustrating. I just want some peace in my life. I want to be with him, but not if I can't be THE ONLY ONE. I asked him today how he was feeling and he said about the same. I just don't know what to do. If he can get passed this then maybe we can move on. But if he can't, this is never going to work. And that I have made very clear. I get that there are different emotions on both sides, but thinking that my husband is still thinking about the woman who helped him to cause me so much pain, is awful.
DeleteI really think you two need to find another counsellor. And your husband has to be committed to actually making this relationship work. He can't have his body with you and his head somewhere else. Does he want to rebuild his marriage? Is he willing to do whatever it takes to help you heal? Does he recognize why he jeopardized his relationship with you? Those are questions he needs to answer. It takes two people to rebuild a marriage. And simply wanting it isn't enough. It's really hard work but the reward -- a strong healthy marriage in which both partners feel heard and respected and valued -- can be worth it.
Delete