A betrayed wife (thanks Jane!) sent this link, which does an amazing job of outlining just how we betrayeds respond to the crap-fest of betrayal. Read it. Feel validated. And then insist that your spouse have the guidelines tattooed on his body.
The kickass survival site for anyone who's ever been lied to, cheated on and left for dead.
Friday, September 19, 2014
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Perfect timing Elle. This week at the end of our therapist visit we had a trigger which seemed to have nothing to do with the A....the short version is that my H said that he felt "I" was taking a step backwards (que the infuriation) His newest endevour involves some local travel on his part and I asked him to please reply to my texts when we are apart., and if possible, with a picture. Something we agreed on at the start and he has been lax in doing because the camera on his phone died.
ReplyDeleteI had to travel the week before and he did not answer a simple text for well over an hour, which is not our deal. I told him I was not able to end this phase yet (and it's nothing that is out of control or out of line. I don't check on him every 10 minutes.)
I believe he is NOT cheating and I just want him to assure me that I am correct. This lead to an entire circus of anger and resentment for two days which left me sleepless last night. I try not to overwhelm him with other people's journeys but this one was too RIGHT on the money to not pass along. I am less than 9 months out. I am doing better than I ever expected that I could, and so are WE, but when "it" hits, it HITS and I'll be damned if I am going to go through something so raw alone. I won't be told I am taking a step backwards, when all I want is assurance that we are both on the right path.
He said the list sounded like what we went through right around D day. I asked him to please look deeper at the mention of "years" it takes many people.
I am not crazy. (well--:) I am not regressing. I am as normal as one can be after going through something like this and walking on a rocky road that I did not choose. Thanks again for a perfectly timed post.
I understand your frustration. My husband seems to think it's okay to tell me he work he will call me back but dosent always follow through. He is at a point he no longer wants to talk about feelings post affair at all. I'm sure he doesn't want to be reminded about what he did. I can't help the visions of him and the ow though. I decided I will just wait until we are with our counselor this week to discuss it. I feel good about us most times but occasionally these thoughts pop into my mind. Especially when I'm at home alone and he is at work. These are the times I call him to just say I love you because it pushes the images away.
DeleteIt makes me want to SCREAM! If there was ONE thing betrayers could do to lessen the pain, speed up healing and alleviate absolutely unnecessary stress, it would be to TALK or at least LISTEN when we need them to...and to stick with our guidelines toward healing. So freaking simple! Why do they have to complicate things? I'll tell you why. Because in that moment, their own desire/need to not feel their shame and guilt trumps our desire/need for comfort/reassurance. In that moment, they are putting themselves before us. And that's a surefire way to take a small problem and make it a BIG problem.
Delete[Shaking my head in disgust/frustration...]
Elle,
DeleteI emailed my husband the list and he said he wished this had been available to us many, many years ago. When I bring this up tho, it causes him to feel so sad and ashamed of what he did that it's almost easier not to. He asked if he thought we would get any better. I think dealing with the aftermath of affairs is much like my dealing with the side effects of my Cancer treatment. You learn to live with the pain. And yes, some days are better than others. It's not going going back to the old life, there is a new" normal".
Pilot's Wife,
DeleteI'm glad your husband was open to that. I would urge you, though, not to protect him from his sadness and shame. That's likely what got him into trouble in the first place -- a desire to avoid yucky feelings. Our feelings are what make us fully human. We can face them and grow from there. Avoiding them simply makes them show up in other ways. We can't outrun them.
And, yes, new normal is true.
I know what each of you mean. I fill the same way but for different reasons. This week I've been gone each night to see pay per view with my good friends from church. We are watching the NQC from TN. We get together each year and enjoy the great singing. For me it's so hard to leave the house and go anywhere but I've made the comment so I haven't missed a night yet. My H. is home alone this week he has taken on a huge job digging to the bottom of the basement's foundation of our house. We had what we thought was a very small leak but he's found a very big crack. He's 68 and with his health issues I am terrifyed going off and leaving him home alone. He's bone tired, I try and have him to call me if he needs anything. So when he doesn't I panic. I can just imagine what it like for you girls who's husbands are still working. I'm not not at all worried about where he's at I worried about if he's sick or worse. A person's life style brings on many things and sickness is a very big one.
DeleteMy husband also refuses to talk about his bad behavior and when anything is said he gets so angry that I try and never bring it up. I'm so thankful that you ladies are here to talk to. Because the one thing that I learned the hard way is be so careful who you talk to because they will shun you like a the plead. People that you think could help you most now they want hardly talk to you.
This week I just finished the best book I believe that I've ever read. Maybe I just needed it so bad. I would love to pass it along to others that might be in need of the same kind of help.
It's called Redeeming Love by: Francine Rivers I highly recommend this.
Sunday I was in W M. in a hurry to pick up trash bags and ran into a little girl who grew up behind our house. Friends with my girls but younger. It was so good to see her. She had her baby with her she's a little doll. I took time to catch up on her and her family. H. Knows her dad and sees him once in awhile and I know her mom well who's been really sick with cancer. The little girl has had 3 children all by different men. She was telling me about her mom not being able to help her and how hard she was having it. I told her I would love to help her out and ask her where she lived. She told me, and I told her that my number was in the book and for her to call me anytime that she could use my help I would be more than happy to give her a hand. I noticed that she looked at me kind of strange but I didn't think nothing about it at the time. I heard from another good friend a while back she had a lot of issues going on in her life but I had forgotten about taking to her. The point that I'm getting at is: Last night while I was listening to one of the songs being sung was poor little C. I remembered the name of the St. she said she lived on and the look she gave me. I got so sick I was in tears all I could think of was my h. touching a young girl like that yes they were all well over 21 but that doesn't help any it makes me sick to think a 68 year old man could think of such a sick act. I think if I was making laws I could easily send someone to nice long prison sentence. There's no rime or reason for such behavior. No I'm not implying that she is a prostitute. Just because I know she lives by em. But just thinking that she might have seen my H. over there picking another girl up makes me sick. He would never remember C. but I'm certain she would remember him very well.
Elle--not necessarily for publication, unless you see something worthy here---but I cannot find an e-mail address for you-- have you seen Comebacktomeerin.com writen by a cheating and totally repentant husband? wow.
ReplyDeleteSteam, I typed in this website but couldn't find it. R u sure it's still there/valid? How can I search for it?
DeleteI read another website blog by a former cheating husband I think affair press or something like that. Very good.
Sam
Here's the URL: http://comebacktomeerin.wordpress.com
DeleteHow do you manage to post an entries that I just happen to need right now? I've been trying to find something my husband could read that would explain my emotional roller coaster and all the recycling. This may be it. I'll have to think about it a bit, but it sure covers everything. Keep up your good work, Elle.
ReplyDeleteC.
Thank you again Elle for the link it does help to read alot. I see alot of that going on in my own marriage. After reading it I can see my husband is doing the right things. I am definitely in the hysterical bonding phase right now it is 2 months post affair. I am on antidepressants which seem to be helping now and sleeping pills. I would recommend them because it helpsto sleep better and not keep having the dreams about the ow. I still have ttrouble eating alot and have lost weight because of it. I have to force myself to eatand take vitamins to supplement my poor diet. I am still afraid that with time our relationship will fail instead of progress. Still holding on to the idea that alot of this will get better with time
ReplyDeleteIt will get better with time. I guarantee it. And that's true even if you decide, ultimately, to end the marriage. You'll either wind up with a far better marriage, or you'll wind up realizing you're better on your own. Either way...better.
DeleteMy favorite part of this post is the tattoo kit. Can I please please please tattoo this to his face while he is sleeping? ;) GF
ReplyDeleteI know, right? You absolutely have my permission to use permanent markers on his face. I wish I'd thought of it back in the day...
DeleteEven thou I posted this link I have not shown it to my husband. My husband has had enough talking about his affair.
ReplyDelete'He made a mistake' 'he will pay for it for the rest of his life' is all he keeps saying.
D-Day was April 12th 2013. Since then I have asked the questions and have had so many different answers.
He took me to a lovely restaurant in London on Saturday as 20th Sept is when they met. So it was a difficult weekend for me. I promised not to mention the affair over the weekend. But said that we would go for a drink Tuesday (today) to finally talk and for him to tell me the truth, what she was to him and what they did in the 2 hotel rooms.
We've just got home and yes ended in a big shouting match he jumped out the car and me crying.
For the past 17 months he has told me that they had sex once in the second hotel as he did not have a condom in the 1st but she did W him and make him (you know), even going into details of that she had horrible underwear on, hairy (you now what) and that her tits were not all that (he knows i hate mine)
tonight he said that they did none of that and that she did not even touch him down below etc
they didn't even lay on the bed and that he did go into the bathroom of the second hotel and try to get the condom on but was not aroused.
I have just read the 180 blog and even more confused. Since we fell out with the group of friends that he was on the weekend away in Spain with the guys. We have spent 90% of our out time together, he no longer goes golf or out drinking with men. Just with me. He seems happy to do that. So should I start with the going out on my own or doing things without him? I am enjoying being with him all the time. I just want to know what she was to him and still don't believe what he's telling me. He even said tonight when I asked why he had carried on calling her after he said they met and agreed to 'finish it' when I had found the other mobile phone, that he needed someone to talk to and that that was ok! asking me, so I said what are you saying that its okay if I was talking to a guy now (as I'm unhappy) he said no.
He get so angry as I get the better of him, as I am an expert after reading about adultery for months. Or is his anger that he is still telling lies
Why wou
Basically I'm in hell. I hate people that lie and why would you lie about this. I understand that he hated me and blamed me for losing our house through a business that I pushed for, but its been over a year and a half and we are meant to have moved on.
he says that he is working hard, says he loves me and so sorry. although that has stopped as much as it did
Jane, your husband says a lot of the same things mine does...it's a defense mechanism, I swear! Everytime things get a little heated I hear a lot of the same things!
DeleteIn the beginning, they're trying to prove themselves and then it just eventually dies off!
Hang in there! I hope it gets better!
Jane,
DeleteI don't doubt that your husband loves you and is sorry for the affair. But I suspect, from what you've said, that he's not being totally honest. And I also suspect that he's got a lot of anger towards you that isn't resolved. Anger that isn't expressed festers.
Is he in any sort of counselling to help him become clear on why he cheated? It's generally not enough to say "I won't do it again" without understanding why one did it in the first place. Without that understanding, when circumstances arise in which we're confused or out of touch with ourselves or angry (and unable to recognize it), we're as likely to act out in the same way. It's a coping strategy. And until we understand our triggers and develop new coping strategies, we're vulnerable to the same behaviour.
I think you two also need to develop the ability to talk about things without it devolving into an argument (I know, it's hard!!). His anger is a counter-move, intended (sub-consciously) to get you to back down. And it likely works. You either back down, or get arguing about something else entirely. There are three counter-moves: Weeping/wailing/begging/bribing; anger/aggression; sulking. Just about everyone who isn't emotionally healthy (and even some who are) will use these to get the other person to back down. It's a way of avoiding painful feelings, like guilt, shame, hurt, disappointment. And once you know that, you can recognize when it's happening. And take a breath and call him on it.
How long has it been since H. Has brought up his trips down Main St. I can't remember the last time he's mentioned it. If I could get rid of this dreded gut feeling in my stomach and if I could take a breath without filling like I'm holding it and wash this filthy trash that H. has seamed to have put in my head that's going to be forever there here on out. I would be fine. He's been in a horrible bad dirty and very hard job. Some nights he can hardly make it to bed. He's saved us lots of money now if what's he's done has fixed our leak that's the main thing. I have no clue what to do now I have started trying to get my life back to normal a new normal. H. Is through with it all and I've made up my mind that there is two men in my life the good and the bad. It's not my battle it God's he is the only one that can change hearts. He's going to have to break H.'s. In His on way in His own time. I know He will.
DeleteI sent the article to my husband after sitting on it for a few days thinking about whether I should or not. Then OW sent him a personal e-mail (we agreed they would only have professional contact with me BC'd or on the land line) congratulating him for an accomplishment. I was taken aback when I saw the e-mail, thought for awhile, then asked if we could talk about it. He thought it was ok for her to send him that! Panic, bewilderment- irritation, anger all at once. He does not seem to recognize boundaries even after this whole mess started about 6 months ago! She apparently doesn't, either, which is how the whole EA began! I am still reeling from our "discussion" last night. He accused me of not ever forgiving him (which I have). I had to lay out the boundaries once again- felt like his mother, for pete's sake! Then I thought "Enough" and sent him the article. I asked him to please discuss it with me when he finished reading it. I know he opened it and downloaded it, but no mention of it yet. I just don;t know what to say- he's been so good helping me through a lot of this, and I know he gets frustrated with the slow progress, but to be so insensitive as to not recognize the e-mail as personal- wow. I do worry whether he still has some fond feelings for her and that added to my anxiety last night. I'd be surprised if he didn't, to be honest about it. Made an emergency appointment with my counselor- I'm just stunned. I hope this article will help him understand my whirlwind emotions and I hope it will give him a bit of guidance as to how to help me. I'll let you know how it goes....
ReplyDeleteC.
C,
DeleteHis boundaries are obviously pretty fuzzy...which is likely how he wound up cheating in the first place, as you noted. This woman is dangerous. He needs to treat her like a coyote hungry for your marriage. He needs to ensure that she gets nowhere close to either of you. NO CONTACT. None. She's likely fishing by sending that e-mail...seeing how responsive he is to contact. Best tactic is to ignore it and any other e-mails. Attention is like oxygen to these women. Starve her of it.
Don't give too much thought to whether he misses her or not. He might. The attention/adoration of people is heady stuff. Hard to give up. But that's likely what he's missing. Not so much her but how he felt.
Thank you so much, Elle, for your reply. When I read your solution to this e-mail, I felt like a big weight was lifted off me. Discussed this today with my counselor, then with my H. I felt a reply was in order and that he should write it with my help- if he set boundaries, that would send a message. But he didn't want to reply and when I asked why, he said no reply would cut off the conversation- just as you said. So I am relieved to see that my husband's instincts are right. I admit I really want to control this situation since I had no control over it in the first place, and he understands that. If no contact were possible, we'd have it. I sure get why no contact is best. But the two of them have occasions to work together professionally. The boundaries set this summer were only professional contact, which this was not. They have to work together for two more years and to say I'm nervous about it is an understatement, but I'm trying to deal with it.
DeleteHe asked me if I thought it was possible to send a professional e-mail with a compliment in it (still didn't get it!) and I said under normal circumstances, yes, but this was not normal. She's the OW and it's not allowed- period. (First time I've used the term OW with him- he flinched---good.)
I agree she is probably fishing to see if she can become friendly with him again- she would like to- I know that for a fact since I met with her this summer (I also know her and have worked with her) and laid out the rules. She would like us to be able to be "cordial" when we happen to run into each other at events- HA. So I do not doubt that she is fishing.
Thanks again for the advice. I feel so much better.
C.
PS- Still have not discussed the above article, but we will. I can tell he's read some of it by the way he's acting. Now if he would just get the concept of boundaries and accept that they can no longer be friends. Sigh...
C,
DeleteHe'll get there. Be patient with yourself...but also with him. You don't, however, have to be patient with the OW. She doesn't get to have any say in how things proceed, cordial or otherwise. I think a lot of cheaters want to proceed in a way that's "cordial" because it allows them the delusion that this wasn't such a big deal. "See? We're all friends..." rather than acknowledging just how devastating and long-reaching the consequences of betrayal are.
I'm sorry you sound like you're in so much pain. The problem with knowing so many details is that they feed the mind movies. This was a huge problem for me since the second flight attendant left me a suitcase full of souvenirs. My therapist was of the opinion that the more I knew the more it would cause me not to heal. I'm definitely obsessive compulsive and have huge need to revist the scene of the crime in my head over and over trying to figure it out these many years after. Does it matter if they had sex once, twice, or whatever I ask myself. It's still betrayal, the movies in my head are still revolting, so why do I want to hang out in the dark places??? It doesn't help and you made need to put on the brakes and allow yourself say a half an he a day and then to do something wonderful for yourself. I know that is awfully hard since everything is still fresh. And I definitely would let go of the idea of spending every waking moment together. We need a larger social group then one other person, and it's me and you babe against the giant world gets old and boring. Better to strengthen yourself with a distraction, hobby, shopping spree and as they say, get a life. That's when you'll feel stronger and he'll notice you're doing just fine. This huge tsunami of pain will leave when you one day are able to stop thinking of it every minute of the day. Easier said then done but it is much like eating a whole bag of M&Ms, you just get sick of it. And decide to move on. Good luck to you.
ReplyDeleteYes Pilot's wife, it seems like I did the same thing. I had to know ever detail. I didn't want one thing left out and now in my mind I even want answers from the very few unanswered questions that I didn't think to ask or answers he didn't give me. You know it just hit I know my husband so well that it just occurred to me that the answer must be pretty bad because H. said it doesn't matter. He had sex at least one time out doors on the tailgate of his pickup truck. Where did he take her? It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't in a park. I hope not, from the research I've been doing it seams to me the girls had the place that they took the guys. I read a few weeks ago one guy said that the girl would take him to a park. Where ever they chose to go it was in broad daylight. No parks that I know of is private enough for sex. What do I know.?
DeleteAfter three months and I can't leave the house unless I'm with H. I've needed to get my nails done so bad and I can't make my self leave home. I went each day last week to watch the NQC and I attend church. A good friend ask me if I was afraid I would run into one of the girls on the street maybe I am. Or maybe I'm afraid that I will go look for em. I know I would never do that but just wanting to totally frecks me out.
Jane~ So sorry for your pain. I share much of what you are going thru, as many of us either are still or have. We are bonded in such a unique way. No one can understand these feelings unless they've been thru this.
ReplyDeleteHugs to you and take good care of you!
So I really need some advice yet again. I'm at 21/2 months post affair awareness. 2 days ago my husband informed me that he saw the ow at the grocery store. He said that he avoided her but felt guilty about what he had done to her and the loss of her friendship. I told him that she was a willing participant and made the choice for the friendship to go that far. He was angry at me and said I didn't understand. I question if he is lying and she attempted contact. I feel anger towards him for feeling this way and not seeing her for as she is a coyote as someone else said which I agree with. This is the second time she was involved with a married man and I think she gets pleasure out of trying to steel other people's men. Unfortunately I can't tell him that he reacts as though I'm attacking him and his judgement of others. I understand she preyed upon him when our marriage wasn't doing well and I was seriously considering divorce at the time and he was depressed and vulnerable. He acknowledges it was a horrible mistake and should've seen if our marriage was salvageable before getting involved. I just feel he sees this more of something he is going through and forgets how it makes me feel and the fears it creates. We are in counseling I have personal issues I brought to the marriage as well. He has said he should've been more sensitive to what I was dealing with instead of adding an extra person into the picture. He tells me he wasn't in love with her and sees he had issues with her. Part of it was her pressuring him to leave his wife and family and was angry when he wouldn't. Why is he so worried about how he made her feel and the loss of a friend when he is trying to reconcile with me and does this ever go away? I Suspect some of this is the feeling he was using her to try to get over our marriage but I don't know if I'm just over analyzing and fishing for good. Any thoughts? Now I'm back to feeling unsure if the marriage is salvageable or if this will ever get better.
ReplyDeleteTwo-and-a-half months is still so raw. Not time to be making the big decisions. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other until the peaks and valleys are less steep/deep.
DeleteMy husband also experienced guilt in how he had treated these OW. He was aware that he had used them and, once he allowed himself to feel anything, he felt deep shame at that. On the one hand, how could he feel anything for these women who knowingly slept with a married man. MY married man. On the other, that he was able to feel empathy for these women was a good sign. He wasn't a sociopath. He was capable of empathy. He was capable of guilt. He could be sensitive.
The challenge for you is in not taking it personally (I know...sounds nuts). And the challenge for him is to allow himself to feel guilty without making it worse by having contact with her. Maybe part of your boundaries are that he doesn't share his feelings about her with you. You can know in an abstract way that he's mourning the loss of a friend without hearing about it. But his boundaries MUST remain that there is no contact with her. His ultimately loyalty must be to you and he's done enough harm there. If he wants to rebuild his marriage, the OW needs to be shut out. No question.
And both of you need to know that it will get better with time. She'll move on and find someone else (hopefully UNmarried) and you two will move forward together.
I wish I had this article 2 days ago! wondering if I shoukd send this to my H or not, if he will even read it. D day was august 28, 2014... and for one month post affair, my father passing away and having a 3 month old baby think I am doing pretty good trying to move on. my H and I got into a small argument about something completely unrelated the other way which of course turned into him cheating on me and his girla foe 3 years. he called me a name and I thought, "YOURE calling ME a name after all that you have done to me?!" you piece of s**t. and I exploded. he apologized quickly, but I was already taken into the dark place and couldnt stop. if only he knew that if he grabbed me, hugged me and told me how sorry he was again that it would have ended promptly. I cried for hours. he said he didnt think I could ever get over it, and again I reiterated how much I have been through. im still here, so clearly I love him. we talked about it the next day when we both cooled down, I even apologized for throwing the OW in his face. I was definitely pain shopping and said some pretty nasty things about him and her. it hurt me more in the end. in any case, this article says everything that I need. he needs to know that a time frame is irrelevant and that his actions speak volumes. anything potentially hurtful can be devastating at this fragile time.
ReplyDeleteGive yourself HUGE credit for what you're enduring. Sometimes, though, I wonder if those of us who are super capable (and I suspect you are) almost make it easier for our spouses to underplay just how damaging their betrayal is. It's kinda like "well, you're getting over it pretty quickly so it mustn't have been too awful" thinking. On the other hand, we don't want to dwell in misery just to make a point. Which is why it's so important that our spouses understand deeply just how damaging their betrayal is, whether we seem to be handling it well or not.
DeleteYour husband's inability to hold it together when you threw the OW in his face indicates that he still doesn't quite understand the agony behind your anger.
And your worry that he might not even read the article indicates that he's still dictating the terms of your reconciliation. If you tell him to read the Declaration of Independence on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, then that's what you need him to do. And he needs to do it! So if you ask him to read something that will really help you recognize that he "gets it", then that's what he needs to do.
Take notice when you're pussy footing around him. That could also be why you exploded at him. We can't keep our feelings in...or they'll explode out of us when we're feeling vulnerable. You need to be able to share with him what you need and why you need it.
I sent my husband the link, and he read it without issue. I think it really helped him to understand what trauma I went through and that I wont just forget what happened because I forgave him. he has already used some of the tools given to him through the article. in return, it has been easier toncope lately. I thinj he now understands that it is a full circle of healing. I forgave him, but he will need to work his hardest to help me through my mind movies, bad days and questions. I still wake up every morning with my first thought being about the affair, it just doesnt hurt as badly as it did. by that, I mean its not gut wrenching....for now. I have been actively working out getting into the best shape of my life. the gym, lets me get out many of my frustrations, something I would suggest to all of the other hurt women. my AD'S I feel, have kicked in and has helped me clear my mind just a bit. also, have our first counselling session next week. I feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel even if I cant see it yet.
ReplyDeleteI just sent this to my husband in a link and he said that he was thankful that I am willing to help him help me to get over this one and that he will do anything in his power to fix our marriage and repair my broken heart. I am really glad someone wrote this out because it explains exactly how I feel and I'm not the best at explaining that to him. Thank you!!!
ReplyDeleteI printed this out and gave it to my husband to read. He's constantly asking, "What can I do to make this up to you?" I couldn't articulate it as well as this article.
ReplyDelete~Gee