Monday, April 24, 2017

Feeling all the feels

"Human emotions are a package deal. Repressing unpleasant feelings anesthetizes us, rendering us numb to joy as well as to pain. The only way out of numbness is to plow directly through the very emotional hell we hope to avoid. And if we can help one another through this process, our lives become infinitely richer in purpose, meaning, and peace."
~Martha Beck, O columnist and author 

Isn't that pretty much why we're all here? To help each other through this process? And yet, I wonder how many of us use this site as a way of distracting themselves from their emotional hell. How many of us in the midst of a full-body collapse – sobbing, heaving, kick-in-the-gut agony – lurch to our computers, punch in a Google search and find themselves here or on another site. Reading, scrolling. Obsessively. Searching for a way out.
While it's wonderful (and indeed the whole point of this site) that women recognize themselves on the screen and – hallelujah! – realize they're not alone in their pain, there is an army of soul warriors waging war on the same foe, it's not a substitute for the battle itself. In other words, you've got company but you still have to show up to the battle. And by that I mean, feel those feelings. Those horrible awful nasty feelings. That "emotional hell", as Martha Beck puts it.
It is, indeed, hell. It's dark and ugly and angry and sad. It's thoughts like I'm worthless or nobody will ever love me or there's something wrong with me. It's fears like I'll always be alone, I'll be destitute, living in a refrigerator carton or my children will like the OW more than me. Even if those thoughts aren't fully articulated, they're there. Dancing at the edge of your clouded brain. Taunting you with their cruelty. 
And so, who wouldn't want to distract themselves? To turn on the computer and read about others' pain instead of feeling your own? Post a few "chin up" comments or "I'm with you" remarks. All well and good and kind and thoughtful. Misery mitigated by company.
But it's no substitute for feeling your own feelings. For being engulfed by the pain until it gives way and you can spot joy in the distance.
I wish I had better news. I wish I could tell that if you just help enough other people, your own pain will dissipate (it helps...but isn't magic).
I wish I could point to a certain book or a certain exercise or a certain meditation as the panacea for dealing with betrayal. All those things help. They really do. Writing down your pain, walking through your pain, meditating through your pain, sharing your pain. But they help because they force you to focus on your pain. To feel all the feels, as the cool kids on social media put it. In the end, that is the key. Feeling your pain. Not going around it, or ducking under it, or numbing yourself to it. Feeling it. I know. Sucks, right?
But here's a secret: You're strong enough. You're smart enough. You're warrior enough. You can feel those horrible, awful, nasty feelings – you can withstand those thoughts so dark you can't even whisper them to another person. 
And that darkness will give way to joy. Eventually. Not today, maybe not tomorrow. But eventually. And when you do, you'll carry that secret inside: That you're strong enough. 
Smart enough. 
Warrior enough. 

88 comments:

  1. Elle, I 100% agree with this. There is no way around feeling the pain and all the other emotions. If any are avoided they will rise up at some point.

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  2. Really allowing myself to feel the depth of pain his betrayal caused was the hardest part of this journey! It was not just one feeling but many many hurtful feelings that took months to process through! I'm sure there's going to be a few more in the next months and years but I'm sure I'm more capable of processing through them now that I have had these experiences to grow me to a better me! Thanks for keeping us going with your wisdom!

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  3. This is a pain that I never want to feel again. It took me 2 days after finding out to really cry over what he did to me and our kids. I think that I lived in shock and anger the first 2 days while the OW was posting how she had a new boyfriend on her Facebook page. When it blew up in her face she took it off, he was back home and she went running back to the guy she left weeks before to go after my h. I still live with some of the pain even after 20 months out. The song from Shawn Mendes "Stitches" makes me sick to my stomach to hear because it reminds me of this time. My husband works very hard to make things right between us. He had made the comment to me how he can't imagine the pain I went through watching everything unfold. Watching her go after him and watching him enjoy the attention and lose his mind in the process. The movies in my head don't live there anymore however, the pain in my heart does. It's not as strong as it was at the beginning but it still lingers there. Walking the dog, writing about what happened and listening to Joel Osteen
    have helped me heal too. I'm not a religious person but I do enjoy his uplifting messages and feel like he's talking to me through this time in our lives. I still have anger emotions sometimes towards her but mainly I just feel pity for her. Nothing about this pain is easy. Not for us, not for some of our husbands and not for the some women who think that they have a right to destroy our families because they feel entitled.

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  4. TImely. I've been thinking a lot about how I'm doing. Reading Pema Chodron on getting comfortable with not really being in control of anything and finding peace when the rug is pulled out from under you. Reading a piece from EverydayFeminism.com about being OK with not being OK. Meaning that feeling sad or angry or crazy or like you want to murder (or at least land a good open handed slap in the face) your h is real human stuff, part of all of our experience and is Ok to feel. You don't have to avoid it or even label it as "good" or "bad". It just is. Sit with it. Be compassionate with yourself about it. Don't buy into the cult of the power of positivity. Its Ok and necessary to feel just as you are. One thing I have learned is that you can't out run the pain. I am watching my ex do this. Drinking his face off, pretending to me like he isn't. like he's got it all together. Some days I fucking hate him. And I let myself. Its not the opposite of love, its a reverse image, a mirror reflection, love in reverse.
    Last night while I was meditating, I remembered standing in the kitchen looking through the glass window in the door to the laundry. Watching him on his phone. Knowing he was on What's App with her, the OW. Just days after dday. And he looked up and saw me and got this giant, "fuck you" smirk on his face. And remembering this I wept. Knowing that he willfully, intentionally caused me pain in that moment. That he carried on with the affair all while knowing, seeing, first hand witness to the pain it caused me. And I wept that someone I loved was willing to actively hurt me in this way. I hadn't looked at that in a long time. I don't know why it came up. Maybe in part because I am still bewildered that he can't choose me. Even knowing he's the worst thing in the world for me right now. That he is, by all reports, a complete basket case. I'm still hurt by the rejection. Even knowing that I am more than enough, despite our history and my history that I am loveable. I needed to revisit that to process, to cry, to feel sad. And to be ok with not being OK.

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    1. Wow, Still Standing. To be learning to be okay with not being okay is something most of us never achieve. But it's a process right? Even if we never get "there", just becoming more comfortable with it is a good thing. It took me decades to realize that the bad feelings don't last any more than the good feelings do. That if I can just sit with them, they'll dissolve. That by looking at them, they lose some of their power over my behaviour. I'm better able to choose how I respond to hurt than simply react.
      And I know you know this deep down, but his "rejection" of you is a rejection of himself as worthy of you. That's his stuff, not yours. You just keep on being you.

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    2. Hello Still Standing--I have seen many books by Chopra and am very interested in reading her writings. When I look at the books she has written they are overwhelming and I don't know where to start. Since you've read some of her books which one do you recommend me reading first.

      I am very interested in these concepts, in meditation, being OK with not being OK. Despite the pain that infidelity brings life will only throw more at you as we age and it stinks!!! It's so easy to revert to past emotions to try and control that over which we have NO control. At least I've learned this much :)

      Hating you X is ok. I've learned much of the problem with love is we actually love who WE think they are not who they really are. So as someone said "When someone shows you who they are, believe them". I think this goes for both good and bad characters.

      I'm looking forward to your advice.

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    3. Still Standing,
      I love that you called it "love in reverse"--those intense feelings of anger and disgust. I will check out the book, because it sounds like it was written for me. Thanks for sharing.

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    4. Hey there Trying Hard,
      On being OK not being Ok, here's a link to the very easy read on the website I menitoned.
      http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/03/its-ok-to-not-be-ok/

      As for Pema Chodron, I'm currently reading "When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times".
      I'd recommend you start first with "Comfortable with Uncertainty" Very easy, accessible and each "chapter" is really a stand alone lesson. So you may not feel as overwhelmed because it is in bite sized snippets. I've read through it twice. Its like a security blanket for me.

      I also highly recommend anything by Brene Brown, an app called "calm" for meditation (I've been meditating for a year this Friday! what a life changer) and it teaches you that meditating is about accepting what is and where you are, even if you mind is busy, vs trying to get "somewhere" or feel "better." Truly good stuff.
      And also this sweet little book by Paul Coleman called "Finding Peace When Your Heart is in Pieces"
      XOXOXO

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    5. Still Standing--Thank you so much for this info. I will be checking all this out tonight.

      Hugs back to you too :)

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    6. Let me second the value of Pema Chodron (there are little umlauts over both "o"s but I don't know how to do that on my computer. I loved When Things Fall Apart but you do sometimes need to read sentences over to let them sink in. Also love Brené Brown. The Gifts of Imperfection was my fave. Meditation has changed a whole lot for me too -- especially around parenting, actually. Gives you space to respond rather than react. And it's working if it doesn't feel like it's working.
      Thanks Still Standing for sharing those resources.

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  5. My 1 year antiversary is coming up Sunday, and I'm amazed at how I'm bring draged back through each of the feelings like a timeline as that day approaches. They're short-lived and not as intense, but it feels like I have to remember whether I want to or not. I am thankful I learned how to listen to what I'm feeling and take it seriously. I would have brushed feelings I don't understand aside before. Now I sit with them and process them. It sucks honestly, but is the only way I can live now. I'm proud of one decision. I'm buying a big gift card for running shoes and giving it to my MC to gift anonymously to a person struggling with infidelity with a note of encouragement from me. Running helped me so much (still does) and it would have felt great to be supported by a stranger when this pain was fresh. After I drop that off, I'm getting a massage and taking care of me!

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    1. Oh my gosh, Ann, that is such an incredible thing. I LOVE that you're doing that. It's just so big-hearted and kind and compassionate.
      And yes, anti-versaries bring up all sorts of feelings we thought we'd put to rest. But that's okay. You'll experience them with a different heart and mind this time around. And each time we re-examine the pain, we do so with a bit more wisdom.

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  6. I am experiencing pain as if it were 22 months ago. I've got to figure this out. I am grateful for a 1.5 hour appointment with my therapist tomorrow. Hugs to all.

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    1. Hope your therapist helps. Just remember this, Beach Girl: It's just a feeling. It's not a fact. You'll get past this and each time you do, you collect a bit more wisdom and a bit more compassion for yourself.

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    2. I find I cycle through these phases. The other week I was almost in panic attack mode. I mean I was inconsolable. It overwhelmed me. I am not 100% sure why. I did let myself feel it. Not that everything is great and perfect now but I wonder if it is like this post I need to feel it. I don't know though if it will ever be gone. And some days I think would it matter if I was still with my husband or not? I am not sure and probably will never know that answer.

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  7. Elle,It was nine months ago this month of my d-day ... in a park starting a five week break from parenting w/my husband (our teen son off to camp) when borrowing his phone to take of photo of him... because "he looked so handsome" and her - the OW's text came thru. I knew instantly he was having an affair. I confronted him right there - in four days much of the whole truth came out - an 15-18 month emotional affair that has recently become physical too. Our marriage of 20 years and life of 28 years and two kids was over that first day. And yes we have a newly minted teen son and a young adult daughter - yes - I kid you not... with cancer. That marriage was OVER as we knew it. Yes, my husband was engaging in emotional and physical affair both before, during and after our daughter's cancer diagnosis and treatment. I never thought a husband could be so selfish to do this but now from all these affair sights I know husbands are capable of cheating on pregnant wives, sick wives, new mom wives, wives who have devoted decades to their husbands and families. There seems to be no loyalty. I am doing "better" after 9 months but still have horrible days. The worst part of his affair is that it's shown me how insecure I am, how I feel I can't count on him anymore in the way I did and it's unearthed the pain of my early losses and betrayals in childhood as child of two divorces... that I NEVER wanted to feel again. I thought I had "cleaned" all that pain up - nope - it's back in my face due to his affair. Here's what keeps me going on most days: keeping my son well.. who btw, ended up hospitalized w/sucidial ideation and severe depression (he's on autism spectrum too! Yup my husband cheated on a wife devoted to an autistic child/teen and a wife/mom devoted to their cancer ridden young adult child - a real winner, huh??) and had to be put in hospital; keeping our daughter well and happy as she fights cancer and keeping myself healthy and well in gym, church and yoga and walks/talks/prayers and calls with friends and close family. I'm not sure if our marriage will make it -- we are trying thru individual and couples counseling but it's honestly too soon to tell. I have told him that I am NOT done w/his AP having some consequences either - she's now done this to multiple men and marriages. She's compulsive, immature, unhinged TX teacher who must be stopped or at least shown for who she is. She's got criminal record and is scam artist. I'm sure she was after his $$$ as well as his dk. She has received a "cease and desist" contact letter from our lawyer but she's going to receive a personal letter from me on the one year anniversary of d-day. Can I publish it here for your review? Let me know. I would not wish my worst or even best days on my worst enemy except her. What a piece of garbage. And yes, my husband knows he imploded our family through this but still gets to go to work, his family gatherings and socialize with respect of others. That seems tacitly unfair too. The only "good" that has come out of this is that I no longer feel the need to swallow my pride and insecurity and be around his family and esp. my MIL and SIL. His control freak mom made our married life miserable for decades and now I get to call the shots. Except for major family events..our son's graduation, our daughter's upcoming weeding - I feel NO obligation to hang out w/his toxic family anymore... blessed relief. No more pretending. They have stood by him and supported him through this so I get to draw my boundaries and finally say "NO" to their toxicity. That is very freeing. Good luck to all of us - what a shitty place to be but here we are and I believe Karma is angry, bitchy mom ... and they will get theirs. I thank God everyday I don't have to wake up in morning and don't have see my face in bathroom mirror like he does knowing... what he does - that he shit all over me - his wife and family like he did. Peace to all...

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    1. Anonymous, you and I have a lot in common. Like you, I thought I had worked through a lot of my childhood pain and betrayal. And like you, my husband's betrayal revealed all the cracks. By healing from his betrayal, I've managed to (finally) heal myself far better. I'm a work in progress. We all are. But I feel better about who I am than I ever have in my life.
      I also dealt with toxic in-laws and was routinely told that I was the problem: too sensitive, too emotional, took things too personally, too rigid, etc. And I too liberated myself from them after D-Day. Amen for that!
      I'm so sorry for everything you're dealing with but I hope you know that you are one fierce warrior. You're upright. You're dealing with more than most NON-betrayed people could handle. And you're doing it. You're the rock your family is built on.
      I'm glad you're drawing your boundaries and taking care of yourself. That is crucial, especially right now.
      By all means, post your letter when you're ready. I'm glad you're here. I hope you'll continue to share.

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    2. Hi Anon--Wow you are a rock!! I admire that you are even able to lift your head off your pillow and carry on day to day with your challenges, least of which is your husband's infidelity.

      I have lost faith in humanity. I have lost faith in loyalty and have decided no one is loyal any more. So I try to be loyal to myself.

      My in laws are toxic too and for years I played nice for my husband's sake. One of the major changes since reconciliation is my strong boundaries and I too have limited my time spent with his toxic family. My MIL is a full blown NPD. She screamed at her grown daughter that she should have had an abortion when she found out she was pregnant with her. The woman is 87!!! That's only one story. They are repugnant! So if any good comes from this it's we don't deal with these people any more. Works for me.

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    3. Anon, You have done an amazing job getting through all of this. Honestly on dday I did not know if I could make it. I will never totally understand why my husband did what he did and will always hate it. However, I did find some comfort that this explained a lot of what was going on that I never had answers for and I always blamed myself and tried harder. It was like an ah ha moment for me. The years of saying let's spend more time together as a couple, let's do this or that. He always had a reason either work or his family. He did lie directly to my face when I would question him. So it a way I felt like I was a little bit crazy all those years and now I am like it was never me it was all him and his guilt. Make sure to see how far you have come. It is so painful both what happened and this process after. But looking back I am proud of myself and how far I have come. I have never changed who I am and what I stand for. I am proud of that. And I know my husband is proud of me too and more thankful than ever for this second chance.

      Keep us updated and post your letter.

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    4. TryingHard, (and everyone with toxic in-laws as part of this equation), my MIL is most likely ADHD and Borderline Personality Disorder too. She creates havoc in my husband's life and in our life as well. Remember that they grew up in that distorted, dysfunctional dynamic, and obviously didn't come out of it undamaged. Although my husband "doesn't see the point" of IC, I'm making him go. There were obviously things he didn't properly address with therapy ever that resulted in him having an affair, so he needs to get working on himself as part of reparations to me.

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  8. It's amazing how you feel great one minute and then it hits you out of nowhere and you start feeling like crap over the whole thing again. We are almost two years out and I saw something she posted, which I know was aimed at me. " Being with someone when you know that you don't love them is cruel. It's not only cruel it's holding them back from someone that could give them everything." Gag...I should never have looked. My h hasn't had any contact with her for almost 2 years threatened her with legal action and she's still holding on to some fantasy. I know that it harms me to still look but sometimes I just can't stop myself.

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    1. Yep. It's a process. Just when you think you can finally exhale -- the pain if over. Wham. Hits you again.
      But, Anonymous, here's where I want you to cop to hurting yourself. STAY OUT OF HER SOCIAL MEDIA. There is nothing to gain and plenty to lose. She is clearly just a sad person who's STILL trying to hurt you two years later. Cut her out of your life like a cancerous tumour.

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    2. It's a bad habit checking on her. So I think when I have that urge I need to find something else to keep my mind busy. There are days that it is so easy not to even think about her and what was done to my husband. I think that is where the anger lies. I was there and watching not knowing some of the things that she was actually doing. I remember realizing something was really wrong with my h when his skin color changed and his eyes were so dilated and he was sweating all the time. Thanks for waking me up and putting me on a better path.

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    3. I went through a phase of checking in often and then it became less often. But in the end I never felt better afterwards. There is nothing that I could see that would make me feel better. And honestly most people post happy and good things on social media. For me it just was holding me back from moving forward. I decided one day enough and I did not want these ow to take up anymore time, space or energy in my life.

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  9. I just feel very little at the moment. I can be happy and relaxed in the moment (sunshine, happy toddler, etc) but in general there is nothing much going on in me... unless it's very very deep under the surface. I am afraid that there might be an unexpected explosion some day, although there is no hint of that right now.

    When I see my h (who is not doing well, and who is struggling a lot with his own issues), I feel only a vague pity or sometimes mild frustration. I do not feel anger and I don't know why. Very occasionally I get a tiny spark of attraction (physical), which I certainly cannot show or act on, given the circumstances.

    This weekend I am attending a family wedding, which may trigger some emotional response (seeing the hope and love expressed by the happy couple). My extended family are not aware of my h's affair, and he is not going to the wedding. I dread people asking how/ where he is, but do not feel like sparking lots of gossip on someone else's special day. I do not want to lie, but I will probably just stay very low key.

    Maybe the biggest feeling I have at the moment is weariness.

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    1. Selkie,
      I think that's great. Feeling joy or contentment if still part of feeling your feelings. I think, though, that don't generally avoid the good feelings. It's that we avoid the difficult feelings, which is the problem. You likely are weary. You likely do need this space to just relax into it, your new life.

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  10. I keep reminding myself that feeling the pain is necessary to heal. We've just passed the two year mark and I do still feel pain. If I can stay in the moment, it reminds me that I still have things to work through. But staying in the moment isn't my strength lately. We went back to our therapist shortly after the two year mark because we have some additional stressors right now (Our daughter in therapy, my mother in law's pending move from another state to within 15 minutes of us) but that could be a completely separate post. We talked a lot about my resentment which I can't seem to shake. I'll be going back next week to do some EMDR in hopes that I can extricate myself from the resentful feelings. I have to prioritize what I resent the most. I'll need to spend some time thinking about that.
    Hugs, ladies.

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    1. Dandelion,
      Sounds as if you're doing everything you can to recognize and address what you're feeling. It can be tough. It all gets wrapped up together and can be hard to extricate what, exactly, is the source of the feeling. And sometimes it's more than one source. Keep up with the self-care. And be patient with yourself. You've got a lot going on.

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  11. Here is my fear....never being able to STOP feeling the feelings, feeling the pain... I feel like I can't get out of the darkness of the feelings and flashbacks and constant swarming of images around me. My mind never rests. And then when I do actually wake up feeling good, I get hit hard with some reminder of my H affair. My H affair was with his sons's teacher. While we were having a good day working together in the garage, I came across a piece of school work that his son wrote that was in keepsake box. It was a story about how much fun he had with his teacher and how she was his favorite memory of 3rf grade. Insert dagger to my heart here!!!! My H was of course horrified and immediately tore it up and threw it away, bit the damage was done. I was right back in it...deep in it. So my fear continues to be that I will only feel pain and that the other side of pain is out of reach. Is it just a sudden moment you wake up and realize that it doesn't hurt like it once did? Am I missing an important step on how to cross over out of the melancholy hell??? I told my H it was like I was surrounded by a glass wall. I can see through the wall and see that happiness and a new life is on the other side of the glass, but I can't figure out how to break the glass to get there. We are now 18 months out. Definitely better than a year ago, but definitely not where I had hoped we would be today.

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    1. Fight like a girl
      Bless your heart! I know that knee jerk gut wrenching pain that happens when you trigger! I'm just about one year from her last attempt to get my h to meet up and yet I still have triggers from time to time! They aren't as deep and don't last as long but from time to time it happens! I'm so sorry you're having them but I certainly understand how that piece of a memory was such a bad one! I'm not sure there is a magic time for us to ever be completely trigger free! I wish I could promise that it's coming but I'm glad your h at least took the initiative to understand how that made you feel! Shows he has compassion for what he's caused by his decision to have the affair! My h often realizes when I'm being triggered and he steps up to help me through them! That's what has made the difference for me this past year or so! Hugs.

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    2. FLAG, That's all our fear. And it's why so many of us will do almost anything to avoid feeling. We're convinced that if we feel even a little bit, we'll get swallowed by the darkness and never emerge from it. It feels counter-intuitive but by letting yourself feel it, just sitting in the pain, you'll actually move past it more quickly than by avoiding it. That doesn't mean wallowing. And it doesn't mean ignoring self-care or seeking joy or any of the things that help us heal. It just means that when those feelings arise, acknowledge them. Let yourself feel that dagger. Don't turn on the TV, or numb yourself with gin and tonic, or go shopping or whatever. Just feel it. It's won't last forever. The day will come when it won't hurt quite as badly or as long. It will have lost its power to totally gut you in the same way. You will have stripped it of its power by feeling it. Maybe sounds a little crazy but I swear, it works.

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    3. Elle, thank you. I'm definitely trying. I have come to realize that I have been trying to push through it over the last year and find ways to numb it. Explains why I am not where I thought I would be in recovery by now. I exchanged my nightly wine with exercise (the fact that my pants didn't fit anymore helped push the issue 👍🏻) and we decided to start going back to counseling. I had actually stopped going because I couldn't stand "feeling the pain all the time". Counterproductive looking back now. Thank you for this article. Amazing how they are always so timely.

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  12. Fight Like a Girl,
    I'm so sorry to hear your story. I think this whole process is like a continuum, or a spectrum. We move along it in fits and starts, sometimes very slowly, toward that place Better. I wish I had something more wise to offer, but I'm plagued by my own doubts as to whether I'm capable of forgiveness. Breathe, and keep moving forward. Even with setbacks, I think you'll find you're still moving forward.

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    1. Theresa and Periwinkle, thank you for your kind support. It's a crazy horrific roller coaster ride for sure. All the advice written is that forgiveness is the key to moving toward happiness. Yet in order to forgive, you also have to be able to empathize. That's just something I cannot grasp and embrace. What's even harder is when ALL of my friends and even family have forgiven him and trust that he will never betray me again, makes me feel like a failure. They see the goodness in him and chalk it up to a "misguided mistake that is not the real him". So why can't I see the forest through the trees? I know in my head. what they say is true, but all I can see and feel is the betrayal. And to be honest, I still feel hatred and disgust toward his decision to do this to our family and ruin our love story. I hold onto the hope of one day waking up and making new memories that are not overcast with daily thoughts of the affair.

      I read this blog daily but rarely write. All of you ladies give amazing support and send out strength to the rest during time of weakness. This is my time of weakness and I look forward to being the supportive one soon.

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    2. Flag, I think it is easy for others to forgive your husband and trust them since it did not happen to their relationship with him. It is totally different being in our shoes. And none of them can guarantee that he or anyone else will not do this the first time or again. During this process I have been skeptical of my husband's assurances that he would not behave this way again. He has told me that even if he was tempted or wanted out he would leave me first and he says he cannot live through feeling that way again. I mean it good to hear vs the alternative. I know he knows this is his second chance and not so much is it I would never take him back again but at this point I think he realizes I would not go through this again.

      For me forgiveness came when I saw the effort, work and changes in his personality, decisions and behaviors warranted it. I do not have empathy for what he did at all since I will never understand it. I do however feel empathy and even sad that he felt so little of himself that he made these poor decisions and then did it over and over again. So much so that he hated and despised himself. In the end I hate what he did to me and our marriage but most he let himself down. There was some relief with forgiveness. Trust is something he has to work at rebuilding and honestly will have to work to earn every day of his life. As my therapist said he had it really great in trust department and he threw it all away. So now he has lost his freedom. Luckily he is embracing it.

      Thanks for sharing and hang in there.

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    3. FLAG,
      I understand how you feel. I find that I alternate between being astonished at what my husband was capable of and recognizing how damaged he was to allow himself to do it.
      Very few know of my husband's affair so sometimes it's hard to hear people comment on what a great husband and father he is. Truth is, he is now, but the journey he took to get to who he is now would probably shock most of them.
      Staying in the moment has been difficult for me. Letting go of what I can't undo is hard too. I'm a work in process.
      Hugs! ❤

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  13. Oh my gosh, warriors. I am feeling some feels tonight! One of the OW just got featured in a local magazine for being an excellent example of a wonderful wife and mother. Her family (including H) and friends have no idea as far as I can tell. In the article she is painted as the long suffering mom of a child with special needs who always makes time for her husband and maintains her physical fitness.... I don't need to go on. I'm shaking my head. How many other imposters have I read about and felt inspired by? I still would not trade places with her. How much work it must be to do what she does (random sex at work as a flight attendant) then come home to this level of pretending! I would not chose to spend my one life this way. Since I can't share the article with my H (violates my own no contact boundry) I thought I would share the disgust here. Not many can say their OW was recognized as an actual wife and mother of the year! Wow!

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    1. Imposter indeed. And she knows it, even if others don't.
      My daughter, who was bullied in elementary school by one particular school (always this under-the-radar stuff -- psychological torture) had to watch while this girl was awarded the "Citizenship Award" in grade 8 for "always putting others first". She and I just exchanged eye rolling and laughed about it later. Fast forward a few years, and this girl is a mess of self-harm, substance abuse and bad boyfriends. We don't take satisfaction out of that -- it's sad, of course. But it does remind us that behind these "perfect" masks is usually someone terrified of being found out.

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    2. Ann,
      I feel the disgust with you. As Elle mentioned, whether or not it's visible on the surface, she knows it. She knows who she is and what she's done. On the days where I have so much contempt for the OW that I can't find words I remember that as hurt as I've been by this, I don't have to live with having caused anyone that kind of pain. As far as I know the OW in my case has been able to keep the affair (She's also married with children.) a secret from all but her sister. But in the quiet moments where she has no one to shower her with attention or boost her ego, she's just the broken person who settled for parking lot sex with someone else's husband. She has to live with her own lies day in and day out. I imagine the fear of being found out would be overwhelming. And while my heart may have been broken, my conscience is clear.
      Hugs, Ann! ❤

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    3. Ann
      Your post made me laugh so hard at the irony! Most if not all ow are imposters in one way or the other! She must be so overwhelmed with joy at her 'accomplishment'! Eyes rolling!

      Delete
    4. ann, COW has to live with being a scam. Maybe it makes her feel better to put on the façade, but I bet it was just a reminder that she is a cheater. Good for you for moving past seeing it so quickly. Where the hell did someone who is super-everything find time to have an A? That tells you something about her right there - none of us could imagine doing that.

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    5. Ann, That is crazy! What I think though is most people have no idea what goes on out there and I don't think they want to know. If they did then it could happen to them as we have talked about in other posts. I honestly think no one can have an idea what anyone's life is like. I think it is worse now with social media. People put out all their good and happy things, it is curated. And I agree with you too I would never want a life like hers no matter how perfect or the accolades she receives. That is one thing I stick by I have been true to myself and proud of how I have handled everything.

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    6. So helpful. Thank you. Thinking of her is very much like thinking of those mean, fake girls in school. I work very hard to not wish her ill in the future. I feel like it may be inevitable (her demise), but I don't really believe in Karma anymore. Afterall, if people got what they deserved, I wouldn't have gotten this. It is possible that her life will sail along with nothing but accolades and pats on the back. Unicorns... puppies... champagne... I am learning to be at peace with that. I have to live my life and not hers. That said, if she crossed the road in front of my car, it would require lots of deep breathing on my part not to press the accelerator. But I would do that. Breathe. Because I know who I am, and I need to act accordingly no matter who someone else is. That's how I dealt with the mean girls in school too--some of them were once my "friends". I focused on being the kind of person I could be proud of, and I let them do their mean things without me.

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    7. Ann, she is a fraud and inevitably it will bite her. She knows what she is, just like our spouses know/knew exactly what they were and what they were doing as they made each and every choice to deviate from the path they were on. You just hold your head up high my friend. Maybe buy yourself a new spring lipstick and kiss yourself in the mirror. Then draw a heart around your kiss. Love yourself. We love you.

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  14. I have been guilty of using this site to escape--but here's the deal. I always LEARN something from my sisters in this weary and fierce club. It might be from Still Standing on her roller coaster journey in which she has kicked ass despite the ups and downs, or MBS from her 'take no prisoners' strength or Beachgirls honesty--having also lived through the hooker side pieces. OR a bazillion others here that I could name.

    And just when I get to the point where I think "well, I've done EVERYTHING i can do", I find there is MORE I can do. It might have to do with the relationship or it might have to do with just me.

    Right now, just over the last couple of days I realize there is more that i can do and am doing. In the last blog on "how to apologize to your wife" there was a book quoted and although I sent the blog to my H, i decided to read the book myself because despite his endless "i'm sorries" after d-day 1, they have been less forthcoming as time marches on after D-day 2 when he was completely off the rails for almost a year and a half.

    WHAT an eye opener it is! Who even KNEW that incredibly low self esteem could lead not just to OVER apologizing, but it can also lead to the inability to apologize at all. Who knew that something as simple as a heartfelt apology could bring up tremendous buried shame? The things you learn here. Astounding.

    To Anonymous above with the children--my heart goes out to you. I'm sure you don't know my story but my husband went through an incredibly convincing false recovery after D-Day 1, to the point that I was doing a bit of guest writing here. Because all felt so great To say I was floored by D-day 2 is wholly understating everything I went through. At one point my H said to me "i wonder if we would have had kids if I would have been different". It was only from this site that I knew he absolutely would NOT have been a different person. These guys can go off screwing around while their wives are in labor or chosing a casket. It's baffling and my heart is just crushed for you.

    Nothing in their present lives "made" them do a damn thing. It's something that was them far before we met them, a seed that they chose to water instead of tending to their beautiful family garden.

    In closing, i have had a lot of embarrassment recently when i see one of my posts come up in the rotator--I have felt like a fraud, however, the more i think about it, the false recovery was HIS, not MINE. My recovery was real. Even though I felt endlessly dashed about the rocks on the D-day 2 discovery, I now realize that I had SO many tools to get through this and I will, with or without him. I threw myself so thoroughly into my own recovery (along with ours as a couple) that I could not help but come out stronger.
    So no matter what, yes, work on the relationship with your spouse or partner, but always, always work on yourself, even if he will not.

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    1. Steam, So interesting since at my last therapy appointment my therapist and I talked about the priority is taking care of me and speaking up for boundaries and what I need etc. But as far as my husband at this point it is up to him to work through his issues, it us up to him to make the right decisions. I do at times feel like I am dealing with a preteen/teen but I guess I am giving him his independence or as my therapist said give him some rope and see what he does. We are doing well but if we are to progress to a greater level of trust I have to fully take care of myself and he has to figure his stuff out. I cannot control him or his decisions which I am more than aware of after all of this. It is a good thing in the end. I would have never guessed I would make it through this and come out stronger but is exactly as you say at the end.

      What you say about apologizing is exactly right. Over apologizing, not apologizing, not really understanding why you are apologizing and just saying it to push away something you do not want to face or deal with are all issues. I am convinced the majority of this is created and learned at a young age. How you teach children to apologize is crucial. And not that someone cannot change but when people are faced with the most difficult situations they usually revert back to what they learned long ago and their old habits. Crazy stuff!

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    2. Steam,
      There was nothing in anything you posted that was fraudulent or a lie in any way. It was about YOU. It was about how you were managing his betrayal. And whether his remorse or recovery was real or not, YOU were real. And you were honest. What's more, false recovery is real. And your experience -- seeing you have to deal with something that many deal with -- gives us all permission to talk about our experience.
      None of us have to do this "right". We just have to do this. The best way we can. The most honest way we can. If there's anything we learn through this that's the most important, it's this: we can never control anyone but ourselves. Our responsibility must always be to live our own lives with honesty and integrity. Everything else is out of our hands.
      You have always been such a source of strength and compassion and, yes, wisdom, on this site. That you didn't know what you didn't know just makes you one of us.
      Besides, this line is pure poetry: "Nothing in their present lives "made" them do a damn thing. It's something that was them far before we met them, a seed that they chose to water instead of tending to their beautiful family garden."

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    3. Thank you, Steam. I need to hear that one particular paragraph over and over. "It's something that was them far before we met them, a seed that they chose to water instead of tending to their beautiful family garden." ❤

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    4. Steam
      I have read your posts and all I ever see in them are your honest feelings! I cried for you when dday 2 hit you in the gut, yet I've seen you pick yourself up and face it even when your h can't face his demons and deal with his shortcomings! I've admired how capable you seem with self care and like you I'm guilty of using this site to help me through some tough times but I feel like that's what Elle created here! A place for each one of us to help the others along while in turn it's helping us too! Hugs!

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    5. Steam, your posts have helped me. I'm 5.5 mos out from Dday & it is a roller-coaster. In the last 5 months I have both fought like hell for my marriage and I have also seen an attorney. In the last 5 months my H has been done nearly everything on the "how to apologize to your wife". Elle is right as usual - it is them, not us, who are a fraud - we're just doing the best we can with what we know TODAY.

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    6. Steam -- thank you, as always, for being so real. When I joined BWC 2+ years ago, I would scan for Elle's words, and yours, knowing that fresh pain was a trigger for me. Sometimes I need misery for company, but I feel better when I read hope. Your way of coping provided the example that I needed. You were honest and brutally clear with the boundaries. There is nothing wrong with you for trusting his efforts, and for trying to rebuild. The outcome is always out of our hands. My h may be sober and faithful (and how the hell would I know), but his depression and shame are still heavy in our home. I have a friend who was just hit with D-day 2 after many years, and it was crushing for me. Q: What if? What if I suffer through this, and there is more pain and humiliation ahead? A: No regrets. I will never be sorry that I tried to work through this. Next test: Going to the spring school events, keeping an eye out for ow and her kids, making sure I take my force field with me. Not my detour, not my shame. Getting my hair done tonight. You've got this, Steam.

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    7. Steam, you are far from a fraud. You were duped again and you owe yourself compassion, grace and kindness. We were all duped. I love your line about "It was something that was them far before we met them, a seed that they chose to water instead of tending to their beautiful family garden." I think many of us stopped tending to our personal gardens, or at least I know I am guilty of that over the years. If I could just internalize and recall that it is him, not me, that is at the root of all this, I might be moving forward faster. I'm feeling better after my counseling session. I have some things to mull over. Peace and love to you.

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  15. Periwinkle--Oh my h def needs IC to deal with his FOO issues. His parents are whack I tell you. There is no way I could force IC he is so resistant. He went to MC only because we were in hyper crisis mode after his affair and he was going to lose everything if I divorced him. Once the MC came to a point where he had to answer some tough questions and be introspective he decided (after 18 months) that we had enough MC.

    I on the other hand have done lots of IC. I have become stronger and smarter and am healing, although I have to deal with infidelity fallout and his FOO issues!!! Yeah, classic case of be careful what you ask for.

    I've gotten to a point where I just don't care anymore. He doesn't want to ask for help, then suffer. His parents are completely toxic and I do only what I have to for them and that's it. I have no emotional investment in them and couldn't care any less about their well being. I don't go visit them and they are moving to an independent living facility and I will not lift a finger to help them. She has accused me of stealing from her and my husband let her. Never called her on it. She has been cruel to my sons, her only grandchildren,their whole lives. She encouraged my husband to divorce me and cheered on the OW (although she never met her). I have no use for either of them so it's easy for me not to care. My h refuses to see the negative impact they have had on him so this is his problem to deal with not mine. I never bring them up.I ask about their well being purely perfunctorily.

    Sometimes for our own health and safety we have to put our own oxygen masks on first and if that other person doesn't want the oxygen mask well then they will suffocate. I've tried to be encouraging about introspection and IC but it falls on deaf ears. So be it, and I accept it now.

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    1. Trying Hard,
      I'm glad you've extricated yourself from these toxic people. And I'm sorry they've caused such pain for you and your kids. Sad that your husband refuses to see it.
      In my experience, the people most resistant to therapy are those who most need it. I think the fear of what's buried is greater than the misery of ignorance.

      Delete
  16. Elle--you are exactly correct. My therapist said it's the healthy ines that look fir help

    When I described my in laws to my therapist it was like she didn't believe me. She thought I was exaggerating. But finally I said you have to believe me this is what happens. What would you do were you in my shoes. That brought it home to her. I think sometimes people are too far gone as in the case of my in laws. So we accept who and what they are and establish your own personal boundaries. But what gobsmacks me is my husbands attitude toward my boundaries. Case in point and I'd love for someone to weigh in on this. He was talking to his mother on Sunday night as we are going to bed and I hear him say "yes she's fine. Would you like to speak to her" and he hands me the phone!!what the heck?? I'm trapped lying right there. I have no escape so foolishly I take the phone and say hello , yes, oh that's interesting, no, I don't know.... one word answers as she yammers on. I don't blame her I blame my husband for putting me in that position. I have stated clearly my relationship with her and yet he wants to act like nothing is wrong!! That's what I deal with. His needs are everything mine are not important or can be ignored.

    I don't know sometimes I wonder if God was giving me an opportunity to escape when I found out about his affairs. I sure hope I didn't squander it. I guess I will see.

    Thanks for caring

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    1. TryingHard, the telephone scenario you described is the same kind of thing my husband does. i think they grow up conflict averse and trying to please everyone, and always pretending that everything is okay. Mine hates to argue, and says stupid shit to try to avoid an argument and inflames it all the more. Or in an effort to avoid an argument with his mother throws the phone at me. I also wonder if maybe this was a "Danger! bridge out ahead" signpost that I should just heed, and take a different route. Hugs to you, I'm sad for you in your situation and sad for myself that I understand it 😞

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    2. tryinghard--even before my MIL accused ME of the one having all the "affairs" i had a boundary or a dozen in place with her.
      1) i never answered the phone when I saw it was her. Never. Of course it took years of answering the phone to get to that spot.
      2) my husband could not hand me the phone and walk out of the room
      3) if i have to say something to her it had to be on speaker and he had to HOLD the phone, keeping him in the room. Now that i have no contact with her at all, my life is so much more at peace, but those boundaries back in the day helped a LOT. enforce them.

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    3. TH,
      Your husband clearly has no respect for your boundaries but I want to consider this: you took the phone. I know you felt obliged and I'm not saying you shouldn't have. But there are those who would simply have not taken it. Which would have put your husband in the position of dealing with the situation.
      I would venture that there's a bit of that desire to please, or at least not rock the boat, in you too. Trust me, it's in me, in spades. I like to talk tough but it's really hard to enforce boundaries when it's such a huge part of our personalities to not rock the boat. However, I do think we need to cop to our own cracks in our boundaries in order to fill them.

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    4. Been there done that. It totally is my husband just passing off and avoiding what he does not want to deal with. My husband does not want to say "you are going on and on and it is boring" no pass it off on someone else. Avoidance.

      I think the best thing is for us to have a plan when this happens. I tell my husband I do not want to be in that situation. My husband for years would get mad at me since he would invite his parents over. He said I don't care what food we serve or how our house looks. It doesn't matter to me. And what would his mom do, walk around cleaning, licking her finger to wipe off spots, etc. And they did not sit there and think my son did not make a homemade dinner or my son does not keep a clean house. Who do they say this about...me! Well they don't say it is there. And when I would speak up and say no they can't come over he would get upset and mad at me for not being nice to his parents. So now if he wants that then he needs to be responsible. And not in some I don't care half ass way. He is finally getting it...

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    5. TryingHard,

      I would let your H know that you never want to be put in that situation again or he will be the embarrassed one, because you won't accept the phone.

      I have a TOXIC MIL too and for years before Dday I kept my mouth shut as my H used her for the complaint department regarding me and our marriage. I never told her her son was an out-of-work porn addict pot smoker with delusions and BTW H also had nothing nice to say about MIL to me. So, what did I get for my years of silent respect? MIL was encouraging H to move in with her, telling him I could never make him happy (sounds Oedipus, right?).

      So after Dday I made it clear to H - I am done with MIL. Done. And also that H needed to pull-back. He can contact her on holidays, birthdays, with important news (like maybe 'our daughter got married yesterday, oops BW must have forgotten to mail your invitation' - I can dream). MIL knew about his A and cried for H, she not only kept it from me, but lied to my face twice when I asked her and she was adamant that he did not have an A.

      I was the doormat for 19 years and I regret waiting for Dday to have boundaries. Now I have a hardline and I could care less if MIL's family thinks I'm ___. I'm finished interacting with her for good. And, like Steam, I have so much more peace in my life because of it. Actually, I cut everyone out of my life who is toxic, except H (who is trying). I only have enough reserve to deal with 1 betrayer and H is mine legally (for now), no one else is... so buh, bye. The me before Dday would have been completely the opposite - everyone is welcome, serve others first, assume everyone has good intentions, etc. Now I am looking out for #1 (me - and my kids).

      H is an only child and I am the breadwinner in our family & in health care - so guess who gets to pick her nursing home!

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    6. Brownedyedgirl, I too did something of an inventory after D-Day and eliminated anyone who didn't contribute to my life in a positive way. Can't say I miss any of them.

      Delete
  17. Finding an email from 2 years ago is enough to bring you to your knee's too. I made me spiral out of control. I wanted to go through the whole explanation again. What did I miss the 100 times we have talked about it in the last 2 years. Why do I feel like this still? Most days I'm fine except today. You talked about pain shopping Elle. Maybe that's what I was doing. It's such a hopeless feeling sometimes even when he is doing everything possible to make us strong again.

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    1. Anonymous,
      I doubt it's pain shopping so much as simply forcing you to deal with residual pain. It doesn't just vanish one magic day. There were be triggers (like finding a two-year-old e-mail -- were you looking for it? Or just stumbled on it?) and each time we face a trigger, it gives us a chance to further process our pain and our response, to revisit where we are and where we still need to go. Assuming you got over it in a few days, then I think it's just a response to a trigger. It's when you don't get over it that, perhaps, it's time to consider other things.

      Delete
    2. I was looking for it. I don't know why but it lead to a conversation with him and then a whole day of texting with her that she started. I had sent her an email the day before telling her that I knew what she had done and that I had proof. I gave her my phone number. It seems that after a 10 day affair she was wanted to have a baby and for them to live together forever and ever. I caught her in lie after lie. When I told her that I had the blood test results on my husband she told me that I put the drugs in his coffee. It ended up being ecstasy and she told me that I would never know the truth laughing about it. She gave herself away in everything she did. When I blocked her number on his phone after he tried to end his life she got a calling card and used *67 to get past that block. She said that he did this and when I told her I had the phone records she backed off. I never called her names even though she insulted me every chance she could. She told me that this was all of our fault even though she and her friend planned everything. My h was on an antidepressant from an injury at work, he took an older antidepressant he had so he could sleep because he hadnt slept in days and this mixed with the ecstasy caused serotonin syndrome which he could have died from. Granted he caused some of this mess by himself by mixing his medication because it totally changed who he was. But getting details from her in which she blamed us for everything was worth it. She incriminated herself. I realized now how unstable she really is. I knew that she had driven by our house before we moved across the country a year ago. I also knew that she had been planning her wedding too before the affair even happened, because the other woman involved came and asked me about having a reception in a converted barn. I don't ever suggest that anyone do what I did to get to the truth because it wasn't fun to go through. I knew that if I continued to contact her she would break so that I had the proof that she drugged my husband. I know that some of you didn't believe that this happened and that's okay. My husband and I can now make our marriage stronger then it was before and for him no more antidepressants, it's exercise and descent food and a good night's sleep that will keep us both healthy.

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  18. TryingHard, I hear you, I really hear you. My MIL is a piece of work. I don't even want to go in to the crap she has done over the years. I also had tried to suggest many times that he try some counseling or even books to help deal with the distorted perception of reality being raised by her had given him, but no. His sister even sent him a book about parents who are toxic to their children. Nope, wouldn't read it. A close friend of ours has a similarly self-absorbed, narcissist parent and she recommended another book, I bought it. He didn't read it. All that time being supportive and trying to help him overcome it all, his denial and flat out refusal to own any of his dysfunction...

    I had to insist on MC after the reveal. I (and the MC) insisted he go to IC. He went once then skipped 2 more appts, to the cost of $120 for 2 missed appts (he doesn't work). After a year of MC we both (MC and I) insisted he go back to IC. But he doesn't see it as something he needs to work on, despite jeopardizing our family with his behavior.

    Elle is right, those who need it most (like our in laws for example!) are the most resistant, and even blind to the need. I'm glad you've been able to keep your distance. I came to the same conclusion, and I don't interact with her at all. I sorry your husband still hasn't been able to own the dysfunction that he has brought into your relationship, but you're right, your own O2 mask first.

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  19. Lol. I've bought some great bags out if that "pain" shopping. Don't even start in the shoes :)

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  20. Thanks Periwinkle. You have no idea how much your input and validation means to me. I'm so close to throwing in the towel and leaving and starting over far away. I've had enough heartache in the last six years to last me a life time. Not only the infidelity but all that life has thrown at me since then. I'm tired and worn out. I've got no more effs to give. Thank you again from the bottom of my broken heart 💔

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  21. Periwinkle and Steam--You've given me some great ideas. I know I have to stand strong with my boundaries.

    I've quit answering her calls and wish I would have years ago. But I am pre-caller ID so for a long time I was at the mercy of whoever was on the other end of the line. We don't have a land line and she doesn't have my cell number, thank God. So she calls our business and I can't leave her to my employees. They even laugh when she calls, which it is kind of funny. If I see it come thru I let it go to voice mail.

    I think I can deal with her, it's my husband, aka the under the rug sweeper and definitely conflict-avoidant, that is sticking in my craw. He doesn't want to deal with her but she's his mother and he should deal with her on some level. It's a matter of respecting my boundaries right? I used to protect him from her and take the heat. I don't do that anymore. It was wrong and certainly didn't serve me very well. It was very co-dependent of me to take on that role. I've learned.

    Sometimes we do feel like we are out there flapping in the winds by ourselves. I'm grateful for sights like this and sisters like you who reassure me I'm not alone and that I can beat this.

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    1. TH,
      See if you can detach yourself from their interactions and become an observer. Once you're no longer there to act as a buffer between him and his mother, their issues won't be so easy for him to avoid. I used to feel like the sacrificial lamb that my husband offered up to his mother. But when I refused, when I (finally!!) stepped back and no longer visited, no longer spoke to her on the phone, two things happened: for one, my rage at her dissipated. I could actually feel sorry for her. And for another, my husband could finally see who she really was. Without me to blame for every interaction ("you're too sensitive", "she was joking", "she lived through the Depression" blah blah excuse blah), he had to own up to HIS response to her. And, whattaya know? He drew back. By the time he re-established his relationship with her, he was better able to draw his own healthy boundaries.
      But you need to, literally, remove yourself from the equation. She is toxic to you. That's all you need to know. And your job is to keep yourself emotionally safe. What HE does, is his business.

      Delete
  22. Elle--yes I did take the phone and you are right it is I that needs to enforce my boundaries. I was taken by surprise that he even handed it to me. It was my natural reaction to take it and try to make the best of it and I was seething and mad at myself afterwards. Would I have felt better had I said "No I don't want to speak to her" and refused the phone? I don't know.

    I agree, those "people pleasing" habits die hard. And I promise I will quit trying to please and see how that works. You made a great point about my actions being complicit in the latest interaction. Thanks for your insight.

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    1. Have you read my therapist's description of learning on this site? Here goes: At first, we walk right through the muddy puddle and then, somewhere down the road, look at our wet filthy feet and wonder, 'how did that happen?' As we learn and grow, we walk through the puddle, look at our wet feet, then behind us at the puddle. 'Damn,' we think. 'I walked through the puddle.' As we learn and grow more, we begin to notice when we're standing IN the puddle. "Damn,' we think. 'Did it again.'
      With more learning and growth, we spot the puddle up ahead. Choice is now ours. Are we going to walk through the puddle? Or are we going to go around it? But it's a process, TH. Be gentle with yourself. This is all new to you. It's unlearning a lifetime of behaviours.Old habits die very hard. But you'll get there. You're already getting there. You just walked through the puddle. Difference this time is you know you walked through the puddle. In the past, you likely didn't.

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  23. TryingHard, the toxic in-laws and all the years of picking up the pieces of broken husband over the years make the slap in the face of the fair all that more devastating, not to mention humiliating. Having been made to endure all the dysfunction over the years, and carry him through it only to be disregarded in such a cold, thoughtless way...

    I wish I had wisdom to offer. I'm questioning my decision to stay together and work it out. Having a lot of difficulty digging deep to find empathy for him. I wonder a lot of it's just my life and family that I dread dismantling, even knowing that the relationship, or at least the loving intimate part of it, might not be revivable.

    His sisters are visiting (they don't know), and even though that could have been a great opportunity for him to skip his IC appt today, he didn't. He went. So, maybe that's a small sign that even though he can't figure out yet why he's there, he's going, because it became an ultimatum. Maybe he'll figure out why he needs to be there along the way. He's having a hard time accepting that yes, he is the kind of guy who could do this kind of thing. Now he has to show me that he's not that kind of guy anymore. I'm still not sure if I can ever let down my walls completely ever again though...

    Even if all I can do is commiserate with you, I'm glad I can do that. Validation from someone else does help a lot. And likewise, your posts have definitely helped me as well. ❤

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    1. Awww thanks Periwinkle. Elle's comment has really gotten me to thinking and of course the advice from my therapist is I need to be more assertive. I need to keep my boundaries safe and I always get blindsided. Especially if I am tired and thinking of something else. Phone call night was just that. I was taken completely by surprise at being handed the phone so I fell into my old people pleasing pattern. I know I don't do this every time though. I think I've been pretty good on keeping my boundaries and it's surprisingly easy some days.

      I used to do so much for my h. Made his life very easy. I learned it from my mother who also did this albeit to a very grateful and faithful husband. So naturally I thought this was my role too. Aside from that I also put myself as mediator for all his personal relationships both with his toxic parents and our sons. That was so wrong of me. It was wrong on so many levels and for everyone involved. I mean who did I think I was, Freud??? Well no more. I am going to make sure it is he and only he who deals with personal relationships with his sons and his family. I am staying in neutral. If he fails to see the toxicity and the impact it has on him then that is his problem, not mine and I am staying far away. LOL until, at least, the next time I'm caught off guard right ??

      I got to say I am very impressed your h goes to IC. I swear I could get a court order and my h wouldn't go. I try to take this whole staying together thing one day at a time. Today I am staying. Today I decide to love and to stay. I have no idea what tomorrow will bring. This attitude helps me stay a little less anxiety ridden. But trust me I hear you about keeping your walls up. Mine are up too. Hugs

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  24. So what do you do when you can't "feel the feels"? When its all bottled up inside you like a rock. You know its there but you can't, just can't let it out, even if its killing you...

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    1. Anon try journaling, write down what it is your feeling, start with I hate when .....
      it does help I had a lot of anger post d day 2 a year ago, I wanted to hurt the ow and my husband and I turned to counselling who introduced me to counselling it helped me control my anger, I also ran to release the anger. Reading is something else I tried, books I bought the first time it happened that I never read came in handy on d day 2. There's a post for good reads post betrayal.. anon you'll never know what works for you until you try. This is your healing, you get to decide what it is that makes you feel a little better.. let us know how you get on.. sending you hugs xxx

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    2. Anonymous
      I know how it feels to have it bottled up and it chokes you from head to toe! I did a lot of writing! I wrote everything hateful I felt about the ow to her and then I just tore up the paper and threw her in the trash! I did this several times because of the six extra months of harassment! I did the same thing with my anger and disappointment for my h but with him, I spent time saying what feelings I was dealing with out loud and tore up recycling cardboard and stuff! I also vented every anxiety and pain I was feeling here in this wonderful blog where I found I was not the only one struggling to keep from strangling the life out of my h while struggling with how much I loved him in spite of his shitty treatment of our marriage and love story! But by the hard work we've both been putting into our new relationship, we are so much better than that first year! Hugs to you this is tough for all of us at one time or the other!

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    3. Yes, Anonymous, writing can be really important. Even if you start off writing about what you did today, what colour the sky is...just keep writing. It can also help to deliberately evoke emotion in yourself -- watch a sad movie or read a heartbreaking book. Something to break the dam. If you're not in therapy, find someone who can give you that safe space to talk about this, who can provide structure and something of a container for you to begin to talk about your pain. It's there. The numbness is a survival strategy, a way to get through life. But it's not a long-term solution.

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  25. Anon it's so scary to feel it, I know I have gotten to the point where I bottle up too (but it doesnt last long) I have to watch my pattern. I watch my dogs. if they are giving me the eye, then i KNOW i'm emitting some bottled up hidden rage scent or something. i've noticed their behaviour is the same with my H. If he's hiding some feeling. they just stand and look down the hall in his direction. Neither of us has ever laid anything but a kind hand on these dogs, so it's not a fear of being hit--not a physical fear--they just both know.it's uncanny. journaling is unbelievably helpful. counseling too. I bet you've told no one? I imagine when you open your mouth to tell, feelings with start rushing, and it's scary as HELL, but you'll get through it, I promise you will, even when it feels you wont--we have ALL been there. everyone here has been there and we are all still alive and kicking.

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    1. I haven't told anyone except one unemotional friend cause I just needed somewhere to run to that first night for a few hours. Her little girl was nearby so no feels. Today is day 12. I had maybe a 5 minute cry. That helped a little. But it was just a trickle. We were talking and I didn't want to let it out. I don't know if I just don't trust him with my feelings or if I don't trust myself. Put on a happy smile and go to work, spend all my time working on proving myself better than OW. How long does the brain fog last?

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    2. That's so true, Steam. My husband used to say he knew I was mad at him about something because of the way the dogs were acting. They're like emotional barometers.
      And Anonymous, I second Steam's suggestion to journal and to find yourself a counsellor. The pain is going to come out, one way or the other. It might show up as illness or self-harm (drinking too much, spending too much, etc.). But it's there.
      And of course it is. You've been devastated by the worst kind of betrayal. Please find yourself a safe place to talk about this with someone who can guide you toward healing. Talk to a notebook and just let out the fury and sadness and the grief. But process it so that you can approach your marriage or your life or your friendships, etc. without unresolved pain.

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    3. So its been 3 1/2 weeks now. Still no tears, no angry outburts, just a whole lot of sadness and numb. I've tried talking about it - I turn into a robot. I've tried journaling, nothing happens.

      He's been making a huge effort at rebuilding. I want this to work. I know it's still early. I've been reading everything I can.

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    4. TheFeels,
      Don't force yourself. Just keep giving yourself outlets to express that sadness and numbness. Be gentle with yourself.

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  26. Elle-- you are 100% correct. I am learning and learning about detachment and I have to say it is so freaking LIBERATING!!!

    I couldn't agree with you more and I like you made myself the intermediary. So so stupid. And I've def changed that role. He deals with her exclusively.

    I will put my resolve to the test tonight. They are home from FL and he wants to go over to see his mother. His father came into our office yesterday and he was fine. My husband wants to take dinner over to them and visit. This may be a cop out but I am going to be very ill tonight and won't be able to go over. The times that I have gone over to their house with him he leaves me to talk to answer her incessant talking and watches TV with his father. I'm not in the mood as this week has been extremely stressful for me. So I will be bowing out. He has always been very dependent on me to do the heavy lifting in his relationships. He needs to start doing his own heavy lifting. It's his parents after all.

    Thanks so much for your input. We can come up with these helpful ideas and strategies but it's always nice to have someone reinforce them. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks again.

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    1. If you're feeling really brave, TH, don't be "sick". Just be unavailable. Breezy. "Enjoy your dinner. I'm going to head home. See you when you get back." And then...zip. If that's more than you can bear right now, go with your excuse. But work up to straightforward honesty. You're not doing anything wrong by simply bowing out. You don't want to go. That's enough reason not to go.

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  27. I remember that analogy about the puddle now!! Yep, now I see that puddle and I am bound and determined to stay out of it. Actually I could hear a little of their conversation last night on the phone. She speaks so loudly. And I had to leave the room. I feel for my husband having to deal with her. And he deals with so much on a daily basis but as you pointed out it is HE who has to set boundaries with her. I have seen her stand over him with her finger pointed in his face screaming at him and he sat there and took it. LOL he would NEVER take that from me and I can't figure out why he takes it from her. But this is HIS experience and it is he who needs to figure it out. I'd love to be supportive but it doesn't work and never has. Matter of fact it works just the opposite when I am trying to be what my idea is of supportive.

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    1. You don't have to be supportive, especially when it puts you in a position where he's using you to avoid dealing with his own feelings around this. But I am wondering if this is where compassion comes in. Like your husband, my husband's mother had spent a lifetime grooming her kids to cater to her. Her love for them was completely conditional on their treatment of her. Bend to her every whim and you're the beloved child. Stake out your own boundaries and you become the child who's "selfish" or "doesn't care". And that's powerful stuff. Mothers have enormous power over their children -- as infants, of course, our survival depends on her. And we never really get over that. The more dysfunctional our mothers were, bizarrely the more intense our loyalty to her. It's like we can't admit she's awful because we wonder, somewhere deep down, if she's awful because we weren't lovable. Because WE're awful. And that fear, hiding in the shadows, is terrifying.
      All this is a long way of saying, I feel quite sad for your husband. I suspect there's a mountain of pain and fear behind his refusal to seek therapy and his blame of you for everything he feels but can't admit feeling. Not that his treatment of you is okay -- it's not. And you don't deserve any of it. Nor do you have to take any of it. But it is understandable when you consider that what you're seeing him deal with as an adult is undoubtedly what he had a steady diet of as a powerless child. And that dynamic has never changed.

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    2. Elle
      What you said about our dysfunctional mothers is so true in the case of my sisters and me! My older sister is in heaven now but for years she told me and our younger sister that she would never be the one to take care of that woman who gave us birth! I'm not about to be ready for heaven to escape, unless that's the plan God has for me! That said, ever since the age of 19 when I married my h to escape her, I was pregnant at the time, I've studied psychology to enable me to deal with the woman that gave me birth! She doesn't fit into the text books outside of narcissistic, entitled bitch. That said, her recent health issues all but took her life, you would think that would be enough to change her but she's a pathological liar and she believes her stories she tells herself to make herself look better to the world! She has vascular dementia but she's still living in her house of misery and I'm trying to let her be back in charge of herself! She knows how to push my guilt button and does it repeatedly! I'm learning how to push back and set boundaries with her while still walking the path of repairing my marriage! She knows nothing about his affair, she thinks my h walks on water. He's been taking care of her yard work for 10 years. He's even taken her to dr appointments when I have conflicts. So my question is how do I turn her loose to go back to the way she has always been and just wait for her heart to stop or a stroke to take her out and still not feel the guilt I know I will have when this happens! I'm still a work in progress and still learning psychology!

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