I love this quote. This experience has led me to want to get a tattoo for the first time at age 43. Like a Phoenix or a Lotus flower or some symbol of survival. I am so very proud of the work I'm doing and how I've handled this challenge (for the most part). The sad part to me is that no one will know about it since I haven't shared it with anyone except my husband (and even if I did, what are the chances they would understand?). This is my Mona Lisa in life, and I have a lot to be proud of. There is a piece of a song called bright lights and cityscapes that I remember saying to myself about the OW at the very beginning to get me through some tough times. I don't like the rest of the song necessarily, but I like this part, "You are carbon and I am flame I will rise and you will remain." When I was on my walks during those first days, I would say this over and over to get the thought of the OW out of my head.
Ann, I love your post. My fire burns for me, my children and my grandchildren. I hope that at some point the fire burns for my husband too. Most days he says, "I hope you never leave me. I love you more than ever before. I am so sorry." I just acknowledge it with "I know" and move on. Like so many of us, I live on a private island with the exception of this group. This is where I place my trust, in my secret girlfriends who have a fire within. Keep the fires burning. Peace and sunshine to all.
This is a powerful quote and I do feel most proud of how I have handled myself and how strong I have been. I have managed to work through the most difficult time in my life to take care of myself, be a mom to my kids and start back up my career from scratch. I could have let this define me. I am really happy with myself. And it feels good to see my husband recognize all of this. He appreciates it more than ever.
Tuesday evenings I'm looking forward to the Wednesday hug. I have not been able to post electronically so this is a test before I go on and on. I have a ton of stuff to share with my betrayed sisters about the fire within me what I learned from therapy, The highs and lows. I have been practicing a lot. The fire within me comes from being branded like a caff in the western movies as a betrayed wife. BW I hope I can post I missed talking with you but follow your comments everyday.
Some days my flame burns brighter than others. But it hasn't gone out. I won't let it. Some days I need to protect it, shelter it in a hurricane glass. That's now. Some days it burns so bright and hot you can see it from space. I'm trying to find somewhere in the middle, bright, warm, sustainable. I know I'll make it but some days, when I don't feel like I want to do this anymore, I hunker down and protect my little flame.
HIGH. Here is what I learned in therapy about my roller coaster rides. Either I am happy as can be and the affair doesn't matter or a negative crosses my mind, I start to go into the abyss. Then I sink really lower. The harder I fight the lower I get. I have been this way for three years. It has become a way of life, a way to get by. I can do better than this. I can be happier than this. My therapist as me to write down every low moment. I agreed. I told her about my highs. I took a contract job in which I was required to go into a corporate office. I knew after seeing my old friends who looked tired, competitive, have not been taking care of their health and their anxiety, I said that used to be me. It was like going back in time like Scrooge did. I knew then I made the right decision for me. I have this feeling, inner peace, I'm where I'm suppose to be and never felt like this before. My therapist said did you tell your H? I said no he doesn't deserve to know how happy I am. He doesn't deserve to know that I made the right decision. Previously my H said he can see my highs and lows and doesn't join in when I'm feeling very good because he knows what is coming next. My therapist said just try telling him one thing, a low cost one. I did and I hate to admit it but he is more relaxed, more open about what he is thinking about everything and shows his love in many more ways than I thought he could. He suddenly starts doing things without me asking, he more thoughtful and does this consistently. My therapist said you want to be in control, that is why you don't tell him. I said yes, sobbing, it is all I have left to protect my heart. I told her I would share more with him but was keeping my control. She thinks I can be happier if I give up control over him. I'm paying her to learn how to be happier. She thinks I'm stubborn too which I am.
FIRE LOW Here is the low. We just moved into our new un-whored house. The first night I bought champagne and we sitting outside. I wanted to celebrate - we made it, I kicked his butt, the OW butt and we made it. After 3 years this was a significant milestone for me. Ok so I said let's celebrate. He says sure. We talk but he is not as into this as I am. He is happy this is the first night in the un-whored house but that it about it. I start stewing. He really doesn't care that much. Let's go lower. He is going through the motions. Let's go lower. What an asshole. Let's go lower. He had his fun as he sitting there happy carefree. Let's go lower. How could have done this to me? I'm sure now this sleazy man had other affairs. Let's go lower. Then I start the projector of mind movies. I'm in the abyss and tell him I'm certain this is not his first affair. I go to bed pull up the covers and cry. My therapist said ok - you put more meaning into this event. Did you tell him? Well, no. She says so you didn't bring him up to your high. I said no. My H says he can never reach my expectations. He thinks he is doing ok but seems to fall short. My therapist said he feels this way because you don't express your highs to him, therefore his expectations are lower than yours. This low may have been prevented if I would have explained the additional meaning you put on this or why I was so happy. I went from high to low is about 30 minutes. Again it was I don't want him to know I'm happy. I'm thinking I'm stubborn and I don't want to give in. I know I'm only hurting myself. I'm thinking that is better than getting hurt by another affair. I'm working on all this a little at a time.
One more thing - It is the little stuff that shows me sometimes I cause the roller coaster by holding that trump card over him in different ways. My assignment is to tell him what is going on in my head. Some days I rather keep him guessing. Not disclosing my thoughts is like a pay back for him for all the shit never told me. All the shit he never told me after Dday. Holding back my thoughts is the ticket to get on the roller coaster.
I somehow read the types of questions that should be asked instead of how much, long or often. I had not seen these before. Means and Motive
What did the affair mean to you? Why did it happen then? Were you looking for it? Did it just happen? Did you feel entitled to your affair? Did you feel guilty? What did you discover about yourself in that relationship? How did you feel about it? Did you discover new parts of yourself or recover lost ones in that relationship? Why do you think you could not express your needs to me, emotional, intellectual or sexual? Do you think you could show me those newly discovered parts? Are there parts of you that you want to bring into our relation? Was your lover someone you thought you could build a life with? How important was sex? Did your affair having anything to do with something missing in our sex life? Did you ever get to a point where you felt you were losing yourself or felt torn and confused? Were you drawn by the general idea of having an affair or did you feel pulled toward this specific person? Did you think it would help you stay in our relationship or help you to leave? Did you ever worry that your affair would destroy our relationship?
These questions are a fire bomb! I will be using them when (if?) my h regains the power of dialogue. Right now he is just blurting out self-centred remarks or sloping around in sulky silence. (nearly 2 months since he told me, nearly 4 months since he did the act of betrayal)
Dandelion, this is over due but to reply to a comment you made earlier. I wrote the OW a letter a few months ago. I told her how she lost because she wasn't pretty enough, smart enough, zero personality, she was just on call sex. Plus some other things about what a loser she was. I did not say a word about how she hurt me. The OW hate it because they lost. Here is a true OW didn't give a shit story. I enclosed a self stamped addressed envelope to send back the jewlery he gave her as an act of contrition. Ok, so she posted a picture of her wearing the diamond necklace. It just shows you the mindset of the lowest scum wagging vagina, It made me laugh so hard at how she still lost the game she was playing. Intentionally hurting someone is a pure evil. That is really all she is. By the way she looked like a smiling shit since my husband dropped her immediately 3 years ago. The OW looked like someone will be calling animal control. The next dumbass man will ask her to put her clothes on. Just because we can't see the OW getting the justice she deserves doesn't mean she is getting it. Hope this makes you feel better.
Lynnlesspain I'm hoping you are feeling a lot less pain in your new unwhored home! It sure helped me when we renovated the kitchen and the bathroom! We had already begun to unwhore the bedroom and living room so I know how good it feels to be looking at a different space than the cow was used in! I'm sending you huge hugs for you to get to even less pain and return to Lynn!
Thanks, LLP! And glad to see you posting again! I just commented yesterday about how I'm coming around in regard to my comparisons to the OW. True, most of these women (with the exception of the ones who don't know they're screwing married men) are very low. The illusion regarding the OW in my situation has really started to fade. I see how pathetic and broken she is, whether it's the result of her just being trashy or maybe something that hapoened in her past I don't know. This is a married woman who knowingly entered into a physical relationship with a married man who clearly stated he was only looking for sex. She gave my husband blow jobs and fucked him in the backseat of his truck in public parking lots on their lunch break. And every time she did this, it was within arm's length of my son's car seat. She liked my children's pictures on Facebook while she was giving my husband ultimatums to leave his family or she would stop fucking him. She left her three kids at home to meet my husband for for drinks and fuck him in a movie theater parking lot while her husband was away for the weekend on military duty and I was out of town with my kids. When he initially ended it (when I still thought I was an emotional affair), she pursued him again. I found out she had texted him and asked her to be respectful of our marriage. Within a week, she was meeting him in parking lots again. All of this is stuff I've included in the letter I'll most likely never send to her. I've come to realize there's absolutely nothing there to compare myself to. She is so far from who I am. She is not the type of person I would want to be. I was brought up to forgive people. This experience has made that difficult and I've accepted that forgiveness may not come. But in my ability to see what how desperate and pathetic her action were, I think that may be a variation of forgiveness. I no longer wish for awful things to happen to her. Her life is awful enough. But I will say that if karma is for real, she better buckle up. ;-)
Welcome to the club that no one ever wants to be in Lachelle Brown! The ladies here know what you are going through! None of us expected our men who were supposed to be our best friend to stab us in the back with another woman! Or become sex addicts.... I'm so sorry for your pain but just know we're all here for you! Hugs!
Lachelle, I'm sorry you are going through this. You are part of a group that has Hercules strength, kick butt insights. Elle has been helping me for the last 3 years. Here is the only place I found truth. Sometimes hard to hear. Here is the only place I found understanding. I never felt abandoned. Here is the only place I could express my anger and pain - the rawness. I never felt judged. Post often, it helps. We really understand. Some woman stay and others leave but Elle, Steam, Pilots wife, Still Standing, Dandelion, Melissa, 1998, Theresa, Phoenix and so many others are here for you
Rachelle, I'm so sorry you are experiencing this pain but so glad you've found us. There's not a finer group of women kicking life's ass to be found on the interwebs. Thus place is a tremendous resource and place of support. LLP is right on about venting here. I use the threads as a form of journaling, getting it out if my head, processing etc. There is so much good stuff to read. Most importantly, right now, how are you taking care of you? Make sure you are safe and have the support you need, take care of you first. Get sleep, make sure you eat, take care of your body. Go see an MD if needed. Get a therapist or qualified minister if either of those things help you. I just wish i could give you a hug. Make a promise to yourself that no matter what, you will be ok.
Lachelle, my husband of 37 years is also a cheater and has been since shortly after we married. I found out in June 2015. Welcome to the best club you never wanted to know about or belong to. We offer love and support to each other and ourselves because we deserve it. This is a hard painful journey. Let us hold your heart and offer you a soft place to land.
Thinking of you as you begin this journey. This is an amazing resource and is here whenever you need it. Take care of yourself and reach out when you need just to talk or have questions.
I must be electronically challenged. FIRE LOW Here is the low. We just moved into our new un-whored house. The first night I bought champagne and we sitting outside. I wanted to celebrate - we made it, I kicked his butt, the OW butt and we made it. After 3 years this was a significant milestone for me. Ok so I said let's celebrate. He says sure. We talk but he is not as into this as I am. He is happy this is the first night in the un-whored house but that it about it. I start stewing. He really doesn't care that much. Let's go lower. He is going through the motions. Let's go lower. What an asshole. Let's go lower. He had his fun as he sitting there happy carefree. Let's go lower. How could have done this to me? I'm sure now this sleazy man had other affairs. Let's go lower. Then I start the projector of mind movies. I'm in the abyss and tell him I'm certain this is not his first affair. I go to bed pull up the covers and cry. My therapist said ok - you put more meaning into this event. Did you tell him? Well, no. She says so you didn't bring him up to your high. I said no. My H says he can never reach my expectations. He thinks he is doing ok but seems to fall short. My therapist said he feels this way because you don't express your highs to him, therefore his expectations are lower than yours. This low may have been prevented if I would have explained the additional meaning you put on this or why I was so happy. I went from high to low is about 30 minutes. Again it was I don't want him to know I'm happy. I'm thinking I'm stubborn and I don't want to give in. I know I'm only hurting myself. I'm thinking that is better than getting hurt by another affair. I'm working on all this a little at a time.
Here are some more questions she published on the web. DYNAMICS OF SECRECY AND REVELATION
What do you want me to know about your affair? Do you think I have a say in it? Is it okay if I don’t want to know anything? Did you want me to know and were you hoping to tell me? Were you relieved when I did? Once I found out, what did you think would happen to you and to the two of you? Did you hope I would find out without you telling me? Were you afraid I would find out or did you assume that I never would? Would you have ended it if I hadn’t found out? Did you lie out of deception or were you hoping to protect me with your lies? What was it like for you to lie? Did you tell anyone about your affair? What was it like for you when you would come home?
QUESTIONS FOR PARTNER TO ASK ONE ANOTHER Do you think your affair may have ultimately been good for our relationship or do youthink it created permanent damage? Are you sure that you want to be with me? Did you come back to me, or to our family? What would have been your biggest loss in the life we have built? How do you think you can bring what you discovered in your affair into our relationship Do you think this will hang forever over us? What do you think are the strong parts of our relationship? What is it about us that you value most? What are some things we can do together to make our relationship stronger? Do you think you could ever trust me again? Can you forgive me? Or, how much forgiving do you need for us to move on? Do you think you’ve changed your values in relation to monogamy?
LLP it's good to see you back, while still disliking why we are all here.
Here's a really strange question. What do you all talk about when you don't talk about the affair? Honest to God true question.
I am copying your questions Lynn because there are some I would like to use and others I think i already know the answer to.
Quite by accident I found a string of SAVED on his computer--texts between my H and his latest AP a couple of nights ago. She was a straight up whore and he sounded UNBELIEVABLY in love--that infatuation phase you go thru with a 'normal' relationship and she was quite responsive, --and that KILLED me. It took me a while to realize that she was looking for her NEXT PAYCHECK, and she always followed his lead--he said I miss you, she said i miss you. he said good morning, she said good morning. She never started it, she just parroted what he was saying.. when my H said I had kicked him out (bitch knew about me and i had even MET her, she knew, but she's a prostitute, I dont expect her to respect THAT little detail) she kinda shut up, said she was "busy" They were not geographically close any more, so no paychecks coming in any time soon and he was trying to keep up an emotional affair until "next time"
When confronted him about the texts told me she blocked him (also, i dropped her a text on his phone--one simple sentence, that i was in disbelief that he was still talking to her). It was some strange stuff--she was cheerleading our relationship, wanting us to get back together. and yet NO doubt she would have screwed him again---no scruples whatsoever
Not only that my H was already planning to hook up with his BJ queen close to the house--so what kind of "love" was this? I dont really need to know anymore--awful to read. awful.
But he and I are thinking maybe we don't know how to communicate. I feel like I do, but he's quite unresponsive at times and I gave up. Thats what happened in 2015. I gave up trying, not knowing he was in full addict mode.
We can converse with PASSION on a subject like the affairs and his sex addiction and my pain and all.
But he's quite introverted (always has been) hates to feel forced to have a conversation about--get this-- Even-a-MOVIE. He just is not ever comfortable talking about his feelings and I am sick of talking about what we are both "doing".
We have the communication techniques down from therapy, but I am sort of wondering, and I'm not kidding--What do you talk ABOUT?
One thing that has stuck with me is my husband said it takes at least a solid 6 months for most people to change their habits. He is in the mental health field and he said this is across the board a minimum he has seen. For me I really have not bad habits. Maybe I workout too much or something like that but it does not affect my life. For him he lived his life in a self centered, taker, what can you do for me way for 10+ years if not his entire life. And lucky or smart of him to choose someone like me who is super dependable and does it all. His biggest fear on dday was I would leave him immediately but more than that was that he could not change. He created a lifestyle and it was not a healthy one. Even though he was miserable he kept at it. For him and us we focused on each other and said not to a lot. We spent a lot of time together. We have always had a lot in common but he really detached from me since he felt if he was connected to me it would just make him feel worse for his affairs. He would stay at work extra long, spend time with his parents, work at home more.
Over the past 19 months he has changed a lot and what he feels is he had to make the actual effort to engage with me. One article in The Atlantic called Masters of Love was one of the first things that he read that hit home with him. He is not into reading books at all so the article was about his attention span. The article though made a point of when your spouse makes a bid towards you then you need to make an effort to turn towards them. And my husband started crying. He said he realized that through all the years that he basically ignored or showed me no interest in anything I cared about. For me it is common sense but for him it was what he needed to read. It helped a ton.
We made a huge effort to talk about everything and spend lots of time together. Our kids are a big topic, cooking and grocery shopping together (before it was all on me only), taking walks etc.
Another common way to connect is through movies and tv shows. My husband says he uses it in his practice a lot. It helps people talk about situations without it being as threatening towards them. Before dday we watched so many shows apart but after dday we watch everything together. It is a lot more time together but we talk about those shows. Sometimes it leads to deeper conversations and sometimes it is just fun.
We also talk once a week. And sometimes it is about the affairs still other times it is just about us. It might be about something that is a concern or something we want to improve. Talking once a week is good since he knows mentally to prepare himself and for me I can know I always feel better after ward. I try during these talks to tell him what I need more of and what he is doing well. He does well when I make sure to enforce his positive behavior that I like. Some things he does I could care less about.
Have you ever read Men are From Mars Women are from Venus? We saw the one person play and that was good too. We still refer to it. Not sure if it is online but it hit home with my husband while using humor.
Sorry this is so long. But I do think good communication skills are important but at some point both people just have to be engaged and dive in. Do you think he holds back due to everything that has happened over the past year and your separation? I know my husband said he stopped watching tv with me since they made him so uncomfortable since affairs always came up and he hated sitting next to me when this happened. Who knew not me!
Steam Part one Steam I'm searching for words when there really are none that makes any sense! My h is a professional engineer, electrical, which means that he is responsible for ensuring that all electricity to a new building or an additional room for industrial projects. Very educated man. He can speak for hours on the subject of the current project, but....emotionally...he has nothing! He can't express what makes him happy or sad or angry or hurt nor anything that involves human emotions. I'm so sorry you have an emotionally deficient h as well!
Steam Part two My h described himself as a coward that just didn't know how to end the affair with the cow because she had already been hurt so much in her life by a controlling ex husband that apparently she spent 18 years trying to get away from! This is the conversation we had in the first weeks following her initial contact with me to give me 'truth'. But as the months rolled on and she continued to threaten a confrontation, my h opinion of her began to change! I remember shouting at him why the hell did her feelings matter more than mine if he really wanted our marriage! A few weeks later, One weekend before he finally filled the charges, our daughter surprised us one Saturday with a visit and our grandsons came bursting into the house causing me a full panic and he could see how visibly the shaking hands and horror of my screams! Then I saw that it was our family and not her and slowly calmed down. We went the next week and I stood by him as he put the whole shitty affair in writing for the judge. The cow asked for a jury trial but we don't want to face that shit again and were just about to drop the charges when she broke the no contact order twice so that shits still in the attorney's desk because the judge talked to her again about a whole year and if she breaks it again jail. So that's coming up in the spring. Since then we've had many conversations that gave me all the details of the affair that I needed to be able to move on.
Steam Part three It hasn't been easy it hasn't been pretty but it is beginning to be worth it. Now that all said, I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough about sex addiction even though I researched it in the beginning because of his porn use leading up to the affair and the time involved in getting her out of his life. You asked what do we talk about... very little emotional words from him but he listens to me about how I feel even though the best he can mutter back is I'm sorry. I just told him at lunch today that if he's eating lunch with the fellas at work, I hope he's able to have a conversation with them because he seems incapable of any conversation with me. If I ask about his day about all I get 'it was okay '. Similar to the conversations I had with our teenage years of our children. However, as long as the conversation is about our other passions, golf, football, fishing, the conversation is easy. I've even tried texting and email but I just get very short answers even if I get my feelings out. I've always been a very emotional person. He knows how to hug me to get me through the sadness but he has no words. He's an asshole but he's my asshole and I guess I'll keep trying till the end of my life to understand his deficiencies of emotions. He did share once that he learned from a very early age to depend upon no one but himself. He had a father that was an alcoholic until he was a senior in high school and his mother had a massive brain aneurysm right before he left for his freshman year of college. He has many issues buried and he has no idea how that effects everything in his life. I on the other hand spent my life learning about psychology partly because of the fucked up person I was because of my mothers abuse. My h hates my psychological descriptions of his behavior but I think that's due in part because the cow was/is a therapist. I feel like that's why it was so easy for her to manipulate him to continue the affair for as long as it did. He has realized and stated out loud that she was likely the one that was controlling the marriage that she fucked up with her ex husband. I remember telling my h that I bet if he ever met that man, he would likely shake his hand and thank him for getting that poisonous person out of his life. So now that I've rambled on the short story is right now we don't talk about anything of real meaning...just glance over the news watch shows that have no affair theme...ect... But I still hold out hope that one day he will find some real words! Hugs!
Steam, just my opinion, are you all in MC together? He has either checked out or he is so afraid of you(marriage) leaving him at this point it is hard for him to say anything, he is scared out of his mind, you will leave him. I wonder if addicts go through a lethal flatness process. Your anger at him, real anger from this terrible second Dday jumps out, screams out on this post. If he did talk to you would you believe him? If he did open up would you think he is manipulating you? Maybe his problems are deeper than what you thought, maybe he is more broken than what you thought? My husband did not talk to me because until I became less defensive, less accusatory and he knew I wasn't going to get up and leave. You already know this. There was also a point where I saw him clearly for the type of man he really is, much is not good. When I said what I saw to my therapist, traits that were not good. My therapist said, "Unfortunate you fell in love with an asshole." My therapist also told me my husband is an emotional 2. I'm an emotional 8 so give him time to get up to your level. My husband has gotten better, not great. When does say something that is emotional, I have to ask questions to really understand what he means. I have to tell him I don't understand could he clarify it for me. Almost all the time what he says is not what he means Upon further questioning. He thinks what he said is clear. For example, he wanted me to go to a doctors appointment with him. What he said was ,"You could with me and we could stay in town, find something to do until we have lunch with our son." I really didn't want to wait 2 hours so he went came home and we drove back to town. Does any of that sound like, I want you to go to the doctors with me because I'm scared?
Just start with some questions on neutral ground. My husband and I agreed upfront, this is affair free lunch. Which means at lunch I won't bring up the affair. That helped him to talk. He definitely is an avoider. I hurt for you so much. I think of you often. This is so terrible, so shitty, so unbelievable for you. The hurt this time is too much. I feel that familiar ache just thinking about you. My answers seem childish but it is how we learned to communicate.
Some more questions What are you most insecure about in our relationship? What is the question you don't want me to ask you? What can I do better sexually? Am I your soul mate? Why? If you could envision the future for me, what does it look like? What do you think makes me so beautiful? Why? Do you like my personal style? Why or why not? What did you learn from your parents that you wish you could forget? In terms of our relationship, what are you afraid of? What's one improvement I could make of my personal appearance? What's a mistake you've made that changed your life? What is something I could do that would make you never talk to me again? Why are you a good match for me? What is the biggest compromise you've made for this relationship? Why? What do you think you missed out on by becoming a parent? (Or, if you don't have kids, "What do to think we missed out on by not having children?") What do you enjoy the most about working together with me? And the least? Do you think I'm putting work before you? How does our financial situation affect our relationship? What made you want to come back into my life? If we broke up, what would you warn my next partner about? What is it about our relationship that doesn't work? What do you regret about committing to me? How have I changed since we met and how do you honestly feel about it? What do you think should be our biggest hope for the future? How do I hinder the dreamer in you? How were you different before we met? What is a mistake you see me make repeatedly? Why do you think I keep making it? What is the greatest lesson I taught you? What do I give you that none of your other partners did? When do you worry about me and why? Which one of our experiences made you love me more? What are 3 of your favorite memories that we have shared? What do you think is the hardest thing about the choices we've made? What do you think I take for granted? What are your financial concerns in this relationship? What do I do that annoys you most? How difficult or taxing do you think my job is on me? Why are these questions awkward for you? When was the last time you felt resentment towards me? How do you feel about it now? If you had to be envious of me for one thing, what would it be? What do you love most about your family? Who do you feel the most vulnerable with? When is the last time you lost your nerve completely? Why? What childhood memory impacted your sexuality? Do you think we still have the same chemistry of when we met? How would you describe true love? Are you afraid I'll become like your father/mother? How am I different from your other lovers?
I'm full of questions. It is the only way I can really get my H to talk to me emotionally. Sometime I can tell he has had enough, of emotional type talk. He has to take a break from it, it gets too much for him. I have to say what he says to me when he does open up is very hard to listen to sometimes. It hurts.
Steam, I didn't really know this man. Who in the hell is he? This sounds pitiful ok but worked. When we go out on a date night we agree affair talk is off limits. I would prepare him. I have a few questions I'm going to ask you about yourself. I would write down 4 questions. Examples: Who between us "Wears the pants" & how do you feel about it? What was your first impression of me? What’s your earliest memory of me? What do you love about my mom? If only one of us can become successful, who would you want it to be? Why? What's your fondest memory of your childhood? When do you lie to me? Remember non affair stuff What's your biggest pet peeve in a relationship? What was the scariest moment of your life? What would it take for you to kill someone? What part of me or my life are you jealous of? Why?
It starts communication then it becomes easier to talk.
We ask each other lots of these types of questions. It is the goal to get past the yes no questions. We also especially my husband likes to talk about our future. He never did this before except maybe planning a vacation. But now he is so into what we will do together and not just with our kids. I hope it is a good thing and shows investment in us.
Steam do you think your husband was ready to pick up where he left off. That marriage does not exist anymore. He nuked your life. heart. He has to clear the rubble. The marriage has been defiled. He has to start all the way back at the beginning. He has to prove he is at least a decent human. He has to prove he is at least worth being friends with. He has to know at this point after showing you the type of person he is any sane human being with any self respect wouldn't even date him. He has to fix himself. He has to know he is just pushing you away when he only focuses on something he was willing to lose. He needs to answer questions or make your life easier. He should be a shoulder to cry on. He needs to realize this is more than a lovers quarrel where you start off where you left off. This is a total destruction of you, your marriage, and him. Just ask him to prove himself to him. He doesn't get to ask for anything. Owning his own shit is taking responsibility. Not blame shifting, not deflecting and not excusing. Excuses are lies. Ask him to write down for one day all the lies he tells himself
"I was drunk" (your choice, lie) "I couldn't help it" (denial, your choice, lie) "She/he/they made me so angry that.." (blaming) "It was just once" (rationalizing) "It didn't mean anything" (minimizing) "It's not a big deal" (minimizing) "Get over it" (minimizing) "if they don't know it won't hurt" (rationalizing)
What would he do if anyone else hurt you like he did? Your in my heart and my thought.
LLP Wow! right now I think I finally know how the plain of lethal flatness feels. For a week or so. I'm totally flat. And don't want to move up or down. I did not feel this way before. That first dday was up and down but mostly up as our relationship WAS better for a year. But this time? At the start I was so strong. Anger propelled me. And I don't have that much in me, except during moments like above. now- just flat. No MC as sex addiction is not my problem. He has to deal with that forever but we need to progress more before we do anything. together. He won't be home until next week and while I'm feeling flat, he's out getting "his stuff", career stuff, which is Very COOL for him done while we're apart, with my great blessing. It's time consuming, not how I'd like to spend my time, and he's good at it. Really enjoying it I think. Gets to show off his knowledge a bit So this question "How do I hinder the dreamer in you" REALLY struck a chord. Because what he is doing CAN involve a lot of travel, and with my business and our OLD pets. 3 over 15-4 on meds it's just impossible or me to go. I like vacations. But not business travel. You cannot write off pet and house sitting on your taxes and it's a fortune (the work he is doing NOW is what he was doing but telling the whores he was very successful at it. Lol) And I have no desire to be in a relationship where half our time is spent apart. So I fear he'll choose the dreamer and gut punch me again and sometimes I just want to beat him to the punch and throw in the towel. And one thing he did tell me in our phone call after that discovery last week is that I DO terrify him. (That fear has to be from him and not me- I am strong and successful but not terrifying or mean) I never yelled until D Day 1. We never fought until DDay 1. I think he's frazzled from all these secrets. Who knows what kind of trail is hidden somewhere in our house. He might be terrified I discover and flip out. I don't know. I like the idea of the "affair free" lunch. Maybe that would assuage his fear of me being terrifying. This sucks. He's home for two weeks and we hit the road for 5 or 6 weeks at the end of the year (with all old pets in tow) Life don't feel normal enough to progress together until January. I hope we make it that far. Right now even I would not want to be with me. I'm just dull unless I'm faking it. I'm a pretty good faker too.
I love this quote. This experience has led me to want to get a tattoo for the first time at age 43. Like a Phoenix or a Lotus flower or some symbol of survival. I am so very proud of the work I'm doing and how I've handled this challenge (for the most part). The sad part to me is that no one will know about it since I haven't shared it with anyone except my husband (and even if I did, what are the chances they would understand?). This is my Mona Lisa in life, and I have a lot to be proud of. There is a piece of a song called bright lights and cityscapes that I remember saying to myself about the OW at the very beginning to get me through some tough times. I don't like the rest of the song necessarily, but I like this part, "You are carbon and I am flame I will rise and you will remain." When I was on my walks during those first days, I would say this over and over to get the thought of the OW out of my head.
ReplyDeleteAnn, I love your post. My fire burns for me, my children and my grandchildren. I hope that at some point the fire burns for my husband too. Most days he says, "I hope you never leave me. I love you more than ever before. I am so sorry." I just acknowledge it with "I know" and move on. Like so many of us, I live on a private island with the exception of this group. This is where I place my trust, in my secret girlfriends who have a fire within. Keep the fires burning. Peace and sunshine to all.
ReplyDeleteThis is a powerful quote and I do feel most proud of how I have handled myself and how strong I have been. I have managed to work through the most difficult time in my life to take care of myself, be a mom to my kids and start back up my career from scratch. I could have let this define me. I am really happy with myself. And it feels good to see my husband recognize all of this. He appreciates it more than ever.
ReplyDeleteTuesday evenings I'm looking forward to the Wednesday hug. I have not been able to post electronically so this is a test before I go on and on. I have a ton of stuff to share with my betrayed sisters about the fire within me what I learned from therapy, The highs and lows. I have been practicing a lot. The fire within me comes from being branded like a caff in the western movies as a betrayed wife. BW I hope I can post I missed talking with you but follow your comments everyday.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to be the mouth of south for awhile catching up to ya'll.
ReplyDeleteWelcome back LLP! I love reading your posts. You are always full of fire!!!
DeleteI would say it is how I survived the six months of her continued contact! I'm continuing to survive the best way I can...one day at a time!
ReplyDeleteSome days my flame burns brighter than others. But it hasn't gone out. I won't let it. Some days I need to protect it, shelter it in a hurricane glass. That's now. Some days it burns so bright and hot you can see it from space. I'm trying to find somewhere in the middle, bright, warm, sustainable. I know I'll make it but some days, when I don't feel like I want to do this anymore, I hunker down and protect my little flame.
ReplyDeleteHIGH. Here is what I learned in therapy about my roller coaster rides. Either I am happy as can be and the affair doesn't matter or a negative crosses my mind, I start to go into the abyss. Then I sink really lower. The harder I fight the lower I get. I have been this way for three years. It has become a way of life, a way to get by. I can do better than this. I can be happier than this. My therapist as me to write down every low moment. I agreed. I told her about my highs. I took a contract job in which I was required to go into a corporate office. I knew after seeing my old friends who looked tired, competitive, have not been taking care of their health and their anxiety, I said that used to be me. It was like going back in time like Scrooge did. I knew then I made the right decision for me. I have this feeling, inner peace, I'm where I'm suppose to be and never felt like this before. My therapist said did you tell your H? I said no he doesn't deserve to know how happy I am. He doesn't deserve to know that I made the right decision. Previously my H said he can see my highs and lows and doesn't join in when I'm feeling very good because he knows what is coming next. My therapist said just try telling him one thing, a low cost one. I did and I hate to admit it but he is more relaxed, more open about what he is thinking about everything and shows his love in many more ways than I thought he could. He suddenly starts doing things without me asking, he more thoughtful and does this consistently. My therapist said you want to be in control, that is why you don't tell him. I said yes, sobbing, it is all I have left to protect my heart. I told her I would share more with him but was keeping my control. She thinks I can be happier if I give up control over him. I'm paying her to learn how to be happier. She thinks I'm stubborn too which I am.
ReplyDeleteFIRE LOW Here is the low. We just moved into our new un-whored house. The first night I bought champagne and we sitting outside. I wanted to celebrate - we made it, I kicked his butt, the OW butt and we made it. After 3 years this was a significant milestone for me. Ok so I said let's celebrate. He says sure. We talk but he is not as into this as I am. He is happy this is the first night in the un-whored house but that it about it. I start stewing. He really doesn't care that much. Let's go lower. He is going through the motions. Let's go lower. What an asshole. Let's go lower. He had his fun as he sitting there happy carefree. Let's go lower. How could have done this to me? I'm sure now this sleazy man had other affairs. Let's go lower. Then I start the projector of mind movies. I'm in the abyss and tell him I'm certain this is not his first affair. I go to bed pull up the covers and cry. My therapist said ok - you put more meaning into this event. Did you tell him? Well, no. She says so you didn't bring him up to your high. I said no. My H says he can never reach my expectations. He thinks he is doing ok but seems to fall short. My therapist said he feels this way because you don't express your highs to him, therefore his expectations are lower than yours. This low may have been prevented if I would have explained the additional meaning you put on this or why I was so happy. I went from high to low is about 30 minutes. Again it was I don't want him to know I'm happy. I'm thinking I'm stubborn and I don't want to give in. I know I'm only hurting myself. I'm thinking that is better than getting hurt by another affair. I'm working on all this a little at a time.
ReplyDeleteOne more thing - It is the little stuff that shows me sometimes I cause the roller coaster by holding that trump card over him in different ways. My assignment is to tell him what is going on in my head. Some days I rather keep him guessing. Not disclosing my thoughts is like a pay back for him for all the shit never told me. All the shit he never told me after Dday. Holding back my thoughts is the ticket to get on the roller coaster.
ReplyDeleteI somehow read the types of questions that should be asked instead of how much, long or often. I had not seen these before.
ReplyDeleteMeans and Motive
What did the affair mean to you?
Why did it happen then?
Were you looking for it? Did it just happen?
Did you feel entitled to your affair?
Did you feel guilty?
What did you discover about yourself in that relationship? How did you feel about it?
Did you discover new parts of yourself or recover lost ones in that relationship?
Why do you think you could not express your needs to me, emotional, intellectual or
sexual?
Do you think you could show me those newly discovered parts?
Are there parts of you that you want to bring into our relation?
Was your lover someone you thought you could build a life with?
How important was sex?
Did your affair having anything to do with something missing in our sex life?
Did you ever get to a point where you felt you were losing yourself or felt torn and
confused?
Were you drawn by the general idea of having an affair or did you feel pulled toward this specific person?
Did you think it would help you stay in our relationship or help you to leave?
Did you ever worry that your affair would destroy our relationship?
These questions are a fire bomb! I will be using them when (if?) my h regains the power of dialogue. Right now he is just blurting out self-centred remarks or sloping around in sulky silence. (nearly 2 months since he told me, nearly 4 months since he did the act of betrayal)
DeleteDandelion, this is over due but to reply to a comment you made earlier. I wrote the OW a letter a few months ago. I told her how she lost because she wasn't pretty enough, smart enough, zero personality, she was just on call sex. Plus some other things about what a loser she was. I did not say a word about how she hurt me. The OW hate it because they lost. Here is a true OW didn't give a shit story. I enclosed a self stamped addressed envelope to send back the jewlery he gave her as an act of contrition. Ok, so she posted a picture of her wearing the diamond necklace. It just shows you the mindset of the lowest scum wagging vagina, It made me laugh so hard at how she still lost the game she was playing. Intentionally hurting someone is a pure evil. That is really all she is. By the way she looked like a smiling shit since my husband dropped her immediately 3 years ago. The OW looked like someone will be calling animal control. The next dumbass man will ask her to put her clothes on. Just because we can't see the OW getting the justice she deserves doesn't mean she is getting it. Hope this makes you feel better.
ReplyDeleteLynnlesspain
DeleteI'm hoping you are feeling a lot less pain in your new unwhored home! It sure helped me when we renovated the kitchen and the bathroom! We had already begun to unwhore the bedroom and living room so I know how good it feels to be looking at a different space than the cow was used in! I'm sending you huge hugs for you to get to even less pain and return to Lynn!
Thanks, LLP! And glad to see you posting again! I just commented yesterday about how I'm coming around in regard to my comparisons to the OW. True, most of these women (with the exception of the ones who don't know they're screwing married men) are very low. The illusion regarding the OW in my situation has really started to fade. I see how pathetic and broken she is, whether it's the result of her just being trashy or maybe something that hapoened in her past I don't know. This is a married woman who knowingly entered into a physical relationship with a married man who clearly stated he was only looking for sex. She gave my husband blow jobs and fucked him in the backseat of his truck in public parking lots on their lunch break. And every time she did this, it was within arm's length of my son's car seat. She liked my children's pictures on Facebook while she was giving my husband ultimatums to leave his family or she would stop fucking him. She left her three kids at home to meet my husband for for drinks and fuck him in a movie theater parking lot while her husband was away for the weekend on military duty and I was out of town with my kids. When he initially ended it (when I still thought I was an emotional affair), she pursued him again. I found out she had texted him and asked her to be respectful of our marriage. Within a week, she was meeting him in parking lots again. All of this is stuff I've included in the letter I'll most likely never send to her. I've come to realize there's absolutely nothing there to compare myself to. She is so far from who I am. She is not the type of person I would want to be.
DeleteI was brought up to forgive people. This experience has made that difficult and I've accepted that forgiveness may not come. But in my ability to see what how desperate and pathetic her action were, I think that may be a variation of forgiveness.
I no longer wish for awful things to happen to her. Her life is awful enough. But I will say that if karma is for real, she better buckle up. ;-)
Hi my name is lachelle an I recently found out that the man I've loved for over 35 yrs was cheating
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the club that no one ever wants to be in Lachelle Brown! The ladies here know what you are going through! None of us expected our men who were supposed to be our best friend to stab us in the back with another woman! Or become sex addicts.... I'm so sorry for your pain but just know we're all here for you! Hugs!
DeleteLachelle, I'm sorry you are going through this. You are part of a group that has Hercules strength, kick butt insights. Elle has been helping me for the last 3 years. Here is the only place I found truth. Sometimes hard to hear. Here is the only place I found understanding. I never felt abandoned. Here is the only place I could express my anger and pain - the rawness. I never felt judged. Post often, it helps. We really understand. Some woman stay and others leave but Elle, Steam, Pilots wife, Still Standing, Dandelion, Melissa, 1998, Theresa, Phoenix and so many others are here for you
DeleteRachelle, I'm so sorry you are experiencing this pain but so glad you've found us. There's not a finer group of women kicking life's ass to be found on the interwebs. Thus place is a tremendous resource and place of support. LLP is right on about venting here. I use the threads as a form of journaling, getting it out if my head, processing etc. There is so much good stuff to read. Most importantly, right now, how are you taking care of you? Make sure you are safe and have the support you need, take care of you first. Get sleep, make sure you eat, take care of your body. Go see an MD if needed. Get a therapist or qualified minister if either of those things help you. I just wish i could give you a hug. Make a promise to yourself that no matter what, you will be ok.
DeleteLachelle, my husband of 37 years is also a cheater and has been since shortly after we married. I found out in June 2015. Welcome to the best club you never wanted to know about or belong to. We offer love and support to each other and ourselves because we deserve it. This is a hard painful journey. Let us hold your heart and offer you a soft place to land.
DeleteLachelle,
DeleteThinking of you as you begin this journey. This is an amazing resource and is here whenever you need it. Take care of yourself and reach out when you need just to talk or have questions.
I must be electronically challenged. FIRE LOW Here is the low. We just moved into our new un-whored house. The first night I bought champagne and we sitting outside. I wanted to celebrate - we made it, I kicked his butt, the OW butt and we made it. After 3 years this was a significant milestone for me. Ok so I said let's celebrate. He says sure. We talk but he is not as into this as I am. He is happy this is the first night in the un-whored house but that it about it. I start stewing. He really doesn't care that much. Let's go lower. He is going through the motions. Let's go lower. What an asshole. Let's go lower. He had his fun as he sitting there happy carefree. Let's go lower. How could have done this to me? I'm sure now this sleazy man had other affairs. Let's go lower. Then I start the projector of mind movies. I'm in the abyss and tell him I'm certain this is not his first affair. I go to bed pull up the covers and cry. My therapist said ok - you put more meaning into this event. Did you tell him? Well, no. She says so you didn't bring him up to your high. I said no. My H says he can never reach my expectations. He thinks he is doing ok but seems to fall short. My therapist said he feels this way because you don't express your highs to him, therefore his expectations are lower than yours. This low may have been prevented if I would have explained the additional meaning you put on this or why I was so happy. I went from high to low is about 30 minutes. Again it was I don't want him to know I'm happy. I'm thinking I'm stubborn and I don't want to give in. I know I'm only hurting myself. I'm thinking that is better than getting hurt by another affair. I'm working on all this a little at a time.
ReplyDeleteHere are some more questions she published on the web.
ReplyDeleteDYNAMICS OF SECRECY AND REVELATION
What do you want me to know about your affair?
Do you think I have a say in it?
Is it okay if I don’t want to know anything?
Did you want me to know and were you hoping to tell me? Were you relieved when I
did?
Once I found out, what did you think would happen to you and to the two of you?
Did you hope I would find out without you telling me?
Were you afraid I would find out or did you assume that I never would?
Would you have ended it if I hadn’t found out?
Did you lie out of deception or were you hoping to protect me with your lies?
What was it like for you to lie?
Did you tell anyone about your affair?
What was it like for you when you would come home?
QUESTIONS FOR PARTNER TO ASK ONE ANOTHER
ReplyDeleteDo you think your affair may have ultimately been good for our relationship or do youthink it created permanent damage? Are you sure that you want to be with me?
Did you come back to me, or to our family?
What would have been your biggest loss in the life we have built?
How do you think you can bring what you discovered in your affair into our relationship
Do you think this will hang forever over us?
What do you think are the strong parts of our relationship?
What is it about us that you value most?
What are some things we can do together to make our relationship stronger?
Do you think you could ever trust me again?
Can you forgive me? Or, how much forgiving do you need for us to
move on?
Do you think you’ve changed your values in relation to monogamy?
LLP it's good to see you back, while still disliking why we are all here.
ReplyDeleteHere's a really strange question. What do you all talk about when you don't talk about the affair? Honest to God true question.
I am copying your questions Lynn because there are some I would like to use and others I think i already know the answer to.
Quite by accident I found a string of SAVED on his computer--texts between my H and his latest AP a couple of nights ago. She was a straight up whore and he sounded UNBELIEVABLY in love--that infatuation phase you go thru with a 'normal' relationship and she was quite responsive, --and that KILLED me. It took me a while to realize that she was looking for her NEXT PAYCHECK, and she always followed his lead--he said I miss you, she said i miss you. he said good morning, she said good morning. She never started it, she just parroted what he was saying.. when my H said I had kicked him out (bitch knew about me and i had even MET her, she knew, but she's a prostitute, I dont expect her to respect THAT little detail) she kinda shut up, said she was "busy" They were not geographically close any more, so no paychecks coming in any time soon and he was trying to keep up an emotional affair until "next time"
When confronted him about the texts told me she blocked him (also, i dropped her a text on his phone--one simple sentence, that i was in disbelief that he was still talking to her). It was some strange stuff--she was cheerleading our relationship, wanting us to get back together. and yet NO doubt she would have screwed him again---no scruples whatsoever
Not only that my H was already planning to hook up with his BJ queen close to the house--so what kind of "love" was this? I dont really need to know anymore--awful to read. awful.
But he and I are thinking maybe we don't know how to communicate. I feel like I do, but he's quite unresponsive at times and I gave up. Thats what happened in 2015. I gave up trying, not knowing he was in full addict mode.
We can converse with PASSION on a subject like the affairs and his sex addiction and my pain and all.
But he's quite introverted (always has been) hates to feel forced to have a conversation about--get this-- Even-a-MOVIE. He just is not ever comfortable talking about his feelings and I am sick of talking about what we are both "doing".
We have the communication techniques down from therapy, but I am sort of wondering, and I'm not kidding--What do you talk ABOUT?
One thing that has stuck with me is my husband said it takes at least a solid 6 months for most people to change their habits. He is in the mental health field and he said this is across the board a minimum he has seen. For me I really have not bad habits. Maybe I workout too much or something like that but it does not affect my life. For him he lived his life in a self centered, taker, what can you do for me way for 10+ years if not his entire life. And lucky or smart of him to choose someone like me who is super dependable and does it all. His biggest fear on dday was I would leave him immediately but more than that was that he could not change. He created a lifestyle and it was not a healthy one. Even though he was miserable he kept at it. For him and us we focused on each other and said not to a lot. We spent a lot of time together. We have always had a lot in common but he really detached from me since he felt if he was connected to me it would just make him feel worse for his affairs. He would stay at work extra long, spend time with his parents, work at home more.
DeleteOver the past 19 months he has changed a lot and what he feels is he had to make the actual effort to engage with me. One article in The Atlantic called Masters of Love was one of the first things that he read that hit home with him. He is not into reading books at all so the article was about his attention span. The article though made a point of when your spouse makes a bid towards you then you need to make an effort to turn towards them. And my husband started crying. He said he realized that through all the years that he basically ignored or showed me no interest in anything I cared about. For me it is common sense but for him it was what he needed to read. It helped a ton.
We made a huge effort to talk about everything and spend lots of time together. Our kids are a big topic, cooking and grocery shopping together (before it was all on me only), taking walks etc.
Another common way to connect is through movies and tv shows. My husband says he uses it in his practice a lot. It helps people talk about situations without it being as threatening towards them. Before dday we watched so many shows apart but after dday we watch everything together. It is a lot more time together but we talk about those shows. Sometimes it leads to deeper conversations and sometimes it is just fun.
We also talk once a week. And sometimes it is about the affairs still other times it is just about us. It might be about something that is a concern or something we want to improve. Talking once a week is good since he knows mentally to prepare himself and for me I can know I always feel better after ward. I try during these talks to tell him what I need more of and what he is doing well. He does well when I make sure to enforce his positive behavior that I like. Some things he does I could care less about.
Have you ever read Men are From Mars Women are from Venus? We saw the one person play and that was good too. We still refer to it. Not sure if it is online but it hit home with my husband while using humor.
Sorry this is so long. But I do think good communication skills are important but at some point both people just have to be engaged and dive in. Do you think he holds back due to everything that has happened over the past year and your separation? I know my husband said he stopped watching tv with me since they made him so uncomfortable since affairs always came up and he hated sitting next to me when this happened. Who knew not me!
Steam
DeletePart one
Steam
I'm searching for words when there really are none that makes any sense! My h is a professional engineer, electrical, which means that he is responsible for ensuring that all electricity to a new building or an additional room for industrial projects. Very educated man. He can speak for hours on the subject of the current project, but....emotionally...he has nothing! He can't express what makes him happy or sad or angry or hurt nor anything that involves human emotions. I'm so sorry you have an emotionally deficient h as well!
Steam
DeletePart two
My h described himself as a coward that just didn't know how to end the affair with the cow because she had already been hurt so much in her life by a controlling ex husband that apparently she spent 18 years trying to get away from! This is the conversation we had in the first weeks following her initial contact with me to give me 'truth'. But as the months rolled on and she continued to threaten a confrontation, my h opinion of her began to change! I remember shouting at him why the hell did her feelings matter more than mine if he really wanted our marriage! A few weeks later, One weekend before he finally filled the charges, our daughter surprised us one Saturday with a visit and our grandsons came bursting into the house causing me a full panic and he could see how visibly the shaking hands and horror of my screams! Then I saw that it was our family and not her and slowly calmed down. We went the next week and I stood by him as he put the whole shitty affair in writing for the judge. The cow asked for a jury trial but we don't want to face that shit again and were just about to drop the charges when she broke the no contact order twice so that shits still in the attorney's desk because the judge talked to her again about a whole year and if she breaks it again jail. So that's coming up in the spring. Since then we've had many conversations that gave me all the details of the affair that I needed to be able to move on.
Steam
DeletePart three
It hasn't been easy it hasn't been pretty but it is beginning to be worth it. Now that all said, I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough about sex addiction even though I researched it in the beginning because of his porn use leading up to the affair and the time involved in getting her out of his life. You asked what do we talk about... very little emotional words from him but he listens to me about how I feel even though the best he can mutter back is I'm sorry. I just told him at lunch today that if he's eating lunch with the fellas at work, I hope he's able to have a conversation with them because he seems incapable of any conversation with me. If I ask about his day about all I get 'it was okay '. Similar to the conversations I had with our teenage years of our children. However, as long as the conversation is about our other passions, golf, football, fishing, the conversation is easy. I've even tried texting and email but I just get very short answers even if I get my feelings out. I've always been a very emotional person. He knows how to hug me to get me through the sadness but he has no words. He's an asshole but he's my asshole and I guess I'll keep trying till the end of my life to understand his deficiencies of emotions. He did share once that he learned from a very early age to depend upon no one but himself. He had a father that was an alcoholic until he was a senior in high school and his mother had a massive brain aneurysm right before he left for his freshman year of college. He has many issues buried and he has no idea how that effects everything in his life. I on the other hand spent my life learning about psychology partly because of the fucked up person I was because of my mothers abuse. My h hates my psychological descriptions of his behavior but I think that's due in part because the cow was/is a therapist. I feel like that's why it was so easy for her to manipulate him to continue the affair for as long as it did. He has realized and stated out loud that she was likely the one that was controlling the marriage that she fucked up with her ex husband. I remember telling my h that I bet if he ever met that man, he would likely shake his hand and thank him for getting that poisonous person out of his life. So now that I've rambled on the short story is right now we don't talk about anything of real meaning...just glance over the news watch shows that have no affair theme...ect... But I still hold out hope that one day he will find some real words! Hugs!
Steam, just my opinion, are you all in MC together? He has either checked out or he is so afraid of you(marriage) leaving him at this point it is hard for him to say anything, he is scared out of his mind, you will leave him. I wonder if addicts go through a lethal flatness process. Your anger at him, real anger from this terrible second Dday jumps out, screams out on this post. If he did talk to you would you believe him? If he did open up would you think he is manipulating you? Maybe his problems are deeper than what you thought, maybe he is more broken than what you thought? My husband did not talk to me because until I became less defensive, less accusatory and he knew I wasn't going to get up and leave. You already know this. There was also a point where I saw him clearly for the type of man he really is, much is not good. When I said what I saw to my therapist, traits that were not good. My therapist said, "Unfortunate you fell in love with an asshole." My therapist also told me my husband is an emotional 2. I'm an emotional 8 so give him time to get up to your level. My husband has gotten better, not great. When does say something that is emotional, I have to ask questions to really understand what he means. I have to tell him I don't understand could he clarify it for me. Almost all the time what he says is not what he means Upon further questioning. He thinks what he said is clear. For example, he wanted me to go to a doctors appointment with him. What he said was ,"You could with me and we could stay in town, find something to do until we have lunch with our son." I really didn't want to wait 2 hours so he went came home and we drove back to town. Does any of that sound like, I want you to go to the doctors with me because I'm scared?
DeleteJust start with some questions on neutral ground. My husband and I agreed upfront, this is affair free lunch. Which means at lunch I won't bring up the affair. That helped him to talk. He definitely is an avoider. I hurt for you so much. I think of you often. This is so terrible, so shitty, so unbelievable for you. The hurt this time is too much. I feel that familiar ache just thinking about you. My answers seem childish but it is how we learned to communicate.
Some more questions
DeleteWhat are you most insecure about in our relationship?
What is the question you don't want me to ask you?
What can I do better sexually?
Am I your soul mate? Why?
If you could envision the future for me, what does it look like?
What do you think makes me so beautiful? Why?
Do you like my personal style? Why or why not?
What did you learn from your parents that you wish you could forget?
In terms of our relationship, what are you afraid of?
What's one improvement I could make of my personal appearance?
What's a mistake you've made that changed your life?
What is something I could do that would make you never talk to me again?
Why are you a good match for me?
What is the biggest compromise you've made for this relationship? Why?
What do you think you missed out on by becoming a parent? (Or, if you don't have kids, "What do to think we missed out on by not having children?")
What do you enjoy the most about working together with me? And the least?
Do you think I'm putting work before you?
How does our financial situation affect our relationship?
What made you want to come back into my life?
If we broke up, what would you warn my next partner about?
What is it about our relationship that doesn't work?
What do you regret about committing to me?
How have I changed since we met and how do you honestly feel about it? What do you think should be our biggest hope for the future?
How do I hinder the dreamer in you?
How were you different before we met?
What is a mistake you see me make repeatedly? Why do you think I keep making it?
What is the greatest lesson I taught you?
What do I give you that none of your other partners did?
When do you worry about me and why?
Which one of our experiences made you love me more?
What are 3 of your favorite memories that we have shared?
What do you think is the hardest thing about the choices we've made?
What do you think I take for granted?
What are your financial concerns in this relationship?
What do I do that annoys you most?
How difficult or taxing do you think my job is on me?
Why are these questions awkward for you?
When was the last time you felt resentment towards me? How do you feel about it now?
If you had to be envious of me for one thing, what would it be?
What do you love most about your family?
Who do you feel the most vulnerable with?
When is the last time you lost your nerve completely? Why?
What childhood memory impacted your sexuality?
Do you think we still have the same chemistry of when we met?
How would you describe true love?
Are you afraid I'll become like your father/mother?
How am I different from your other lovers?
I'm full of questions. It is the only way I can really get my H to talk to me emotionally. Sometime I can tell he has had enough, of emotional type talk. He has to take a break from it, it gets too much for him. I have to say what he says to me when he does open up is very hard to listen to sometimes. It hurts.
DeleteSteam, I didn't really know this man. Who in the hell is he? This sounds pitiful ok but worked. When we go out on a date night we agree affair talk is off limits. I would prepare him. I have a few questions I'm going to ask you about yourself. I would write down 4 questions. Examples:
ReplyDeleteWho between us "Wears the pants" & how do you feel about it?
What was your first impression of me?
What’s your earliest memory of me?
What do you love about my mom?
If only one of us can become successful, who would you want it to be? Why?
What's your fondest memory of your childhood?
When do you lie to me? Remember non affair stuff
What's your biggest pet peeve in a relationship?
What was the scariest moment of your life?
What would it take for you to kill someone?
What part of me or my life are you jealous of? Why?
It starts communication then it becomes easier to talk.
We ask each other lots of these types of questions. It is the goal to get past the yes no questions. We also especially my husband likes to talk about our future. He never did this before except maybe planning a vacation. But now he is so into what we will do together and not just with our kids. I hope it is a good thing and shows investment in us.
DeleteSteam do you think your husband was ready to pick up where he left off. That marriage does not exist anymore. He nuked your life. heart. He has to clear the rubble. The marriage has been defiled. He has to start all the way back at the beginning. He has to prove he is at least a decent human. He has to prove he is at least worth being friends with. He has to know at this point after showing you the type of person he is any sane human being with any self respect wouldn't even date him. He has to fix himself. He has to know he is just pushing you away when he only focuses on something he was willing to lose. He needs to answer questions or make your life easier. He should be a shoulder to cry on. He needs to realize this is more than a lovers quarrel where you start off where you left off. This is a total destruction of you, your marriage, and him. Just ask him to prove himself to him. He doesn't get to ask for anything. Owning his own shit is taking responsibility. Not blame shifting, not deflecting and not excusing. Excuses are lies. Ask him to write down for one day all the lies he tells himself
ReplyDelete"I was drunk" (your choice, lie)
"I couldn't help it" (denial, your choice, lie)
"She/he/they made me so angry that.." (blaming)
"It was just once" (rationalizing)
"It didn't mean anything" (minimizing)
"It's not a big deal" (minimizing)
"Get over it" (minimizing)
"if they don't know it won't hurt" (rationalizing)
What would he do if anyone else hurt you like he did? Your in my heart and my thought.
LLP Wow! right now I think I finally know how the plain of lethal flatness feels. For a week or so. I'm totally flat. And don't want to move up or down. I did not feel this way before. That first dday was up and down but mostly up as our relationship WAS better for a year. But this time? At the start I was so strong. Anger propelled me. And I don't have that much in me, except during moments like above. now- just flat. No MC as sex addiction is not my problem. He has to deal with that forever but we need to progress more before we do anything. together. He won't be home until next week and while I'm feeling flat, he's out getting "his stuff", career stuff, which is Very COOL for him done while we're apart, with my great blessing. It's time consuming, not how I'd like to spend my time, and he's good at it. Really enjoying it I think. Gets to show off his knowledge a bit So this question "How do I hinder the dreamer in you" REALLY struck a chord. Because what he is doing CAN involve a lot of travel, and with my business and our OLD pets. 3 over 15-4 on meds it's just impossible or me to go. I like vacations. But not business travel. You cannot write off pet and house sitting on your taxes and it's a fortune (the work he is doing NOW is what he was doing but telling the whores he was very successful at it. Lol) And I have no desire to be in a relationship where half our time is spent apart. So I fear he'll choose the dreamer and gut punch me again and sometimes I just want to beat him to the punch and throw in the towel. And one thing he did tell me in our phone call after that discovery last week is that I DO terrify him. (That fear has to be from him and not me- I am strong and successful but not terrifying or mean) I never yelled until D Day 1. We never fought until DDay 1. I think he's frazzled from all these secrets. Who knows what kind of trail is hidden somewhere in our house. He might be terrified I discover and flip out. I don't know. I like the idea of the "affair free" lunch. Maybe that would assuage his fear of me being terrifying. This sucks. He's home for two weeks and we hit the road for 5 or 6 weeks at the end of the year (with all old pets in tow) Life don't feel normal enough to progress together until January. I hope we make it that far. Right now even I would not want to be with me. I'm just dull unless I'm faking it. I'm a pretty good faker too.
ReplyDelete