Hey lovely ladies... I've reeeeeally been into self improvement in all areas of life lately... like exploding to be the best person I can be. I feel like now that the unthinkable has happened in the most brutal way... why be scared of life?? Why be scared of anything? The world is my oyster!! Oh man. So corny!! And maybe not even right - I always get those sayings mixed up. HA!
Anyways I'm LOVING Jordan Peterson videos at the moment. And his lesson on relationships is top notch in my eyes AND it's funny. I have so much to learn!!! And so does my "rat" lol (the video will explain the rat reference)
I'm decidedly not a Jordan Peterson fan so I could only watch a few minutes of this. But we each learn from whatever teacher speaks to us. I suspect we all have plenty to learn and that the learning continues until the day we die, assuming we're open to it.
I just read up on him. Lots in the news in the last 15-18 hours about him or even the past week. I see his recent new book is getting released. I did not get the connection with Marc Andreasen. And then lots of biblical you tube posts.
Gosh, I have become so much better at doing this. I now see myself as strong and able and only bending at times under the strain of all the awful and stressful things that have happened over the past few years. I have taken a stand and stood up for what I want and who I am Having said that, it's a tough week, still the shadow of the awful tragic death of our young nephew, still the deepseated hurts resurfacing from our eldest boy with Aspergers, still conflict and difficulty and school refusal. Still my husband collapsing in on himself when hearing my son and I discuss a difficult episode from last summer. And then I'd applied for a job - they were taking on several library assistants. I'm more than qualified and had done voluntary library work in my daughter's school for years and was selected years back for a job (which I didn't take as I was going back to education) but I didn't get high enough on the panel this time to be offered a job. It's fine, it was going to be a juggle with the kids, I'll try for something else and now I get to keep writing my novels but I wanted a change of scene, a chance to build confidence and to get out of the house that has been the scene for so many difficult times. I can do all I can mentally to strengthen myself but it's not great when the people around you are still adding pressures and not stepping up fully (my husband is in very useful IC but he has not made any special efforts or nods to the trigger month of January and the fact that he has been undermining the marriage up to Sept 17 with new, inappropriate friendships. I believe that given all that's happened I have to right to ask for support and reparation of some kind. He isn't sure what that entails and I feel like maybe I'm asking him to jump through hoops. But I've been loving, understanding and kind and come so close to him again, despite the kick in the teeth, I think I deserve to be told how much this chance and being with me means to him.
FOH - I have nothing other than validating your final statement ... you do deserve that from your H - if not for the sheer fact that he realizes just how lucky he is to have this additional chance!
FOH, I think under the circumstances we are under as the betrayed spouse we really can ask for anything and everything we need to even consider staying and/or starting to feel safe. My therapist was adamant about this. My therapist said my husband had his chance that I gave him for years. I was trusting, worked on our marriage, was supportive, created a positive family environment, and many more things. In my case my husband was fully aware of what harm his actions would have on him, me, our kids and our marriage. He had the tools to not do what he did. And honestly I think most wayward spouses do. I would say my kids at a young age would know what he did was wrong if asked. I know there are other factors such as mental illness but at least in my case my husband knew what he was doing and just did not care and did it anyways.
And I also think this is a long process. There was the initial effort my husband had to make for me to even consider staying. Then the real work started. My husband is more equipped than most husbands most likely. He speaks of how he has thought about living an authentic and transparent life in all ways. I have listened carefully to his words but more than anything I judge his actions. And over these almost three years not everything has been his way. But what is interesting is he said he was unsure he could do it or be the person who he wanted to be. Now he says it is not work. He has learned how to think of others first. This is mind boggling to me but he was entitled growing up and got whatever he wanted including lots of attention. But now he said he is happiest when he takes the time to make a decision and consider me, the kids, and other factors like his health, sleep, well being. He really was living his life like a teenage boy. He would leave the house and did not care or think about me or the kids and told me that. He just pretended he was not married or had kids.
In the end do what works for you. I try to use words from my voice. And explain my feelings. We hit a big change in our relationship when he stopped being defensive and I stopped being hyper emotional. He has always told me to remove emotions when dealing with our kids and it always makes a big difference. Now I do the same with him. We get farther. It is not that I express no emotions but for two years after dday I cried easily and it just took a toll on me and would keep our progress from going farther. Also I think I reached my point of not being able to cry anymore.
And yes you should be told that he understands how valuable a second or third chance whatever chance it is and what that means to him.
FOH, Have you asked him to, specifically, tell you (or write you, or audio record himself, or whatever) exactly what this "second chance" means to him and why he wants to be with you? I think that's a perfectly reasonable request and would go a long way, in his own mind, of sorting through what you and his marriage means to him.
Thanks Kimberly, it means a lot to me to have these sentiments validated! And Hopeful I found it so interesting what you said about your husband not being defensive and you not being hyper emotional is very relevant to where my husband and I are now. We are definitely moving strongly that way. My son has noticed that I don't get over emotional now and I can hear my voice come strongly now when I speak to my husband, not from a place of weakness or desperation.
Exactly. How he explained it to me when dealing with children is that the emotions distract from the point you are trying to make. He told me that for years and it does work with your kids. They feed off of you too. So if you are emotional they will feed off of that. So I thought I need to try this no matter how hard it is. And of course this was well past dday and those gut reactions. At a certain point being emotional with every discussion was exhausting and not getting me anywhere. I needed to mix it up. I thought crying and getting caught up in my emotions is helping no one here. If I am really going to make a go at this marriage I need to try a new way. And I thought if it works with my kids then why not try it with him. Once I was less emotional he became less defensive. We did have a few discussions around his need to not be defensive or move into "fix it mode" which is his normal reaction. I told him you can not go back and fix anything so you need to change. It has worked out so far with lots of work and a lifetime of work ahead of us.
I am approaching two years since dday. I still have thoughts ofvleaving and being on my own. I have been married 37 years and never thought I would be here. The affair still makes me feel ill. I do try to get past the emotions but it is a struggle for me..daily. still after all of this time. I think I should be so much further than I am. My h buys me things. Always has..now I believe that is what he thinks will keep me happy. I tell him he doesnt need to keep buying me things. But I guess if thst is what he wants to do I will just let him. He doesn't want fo ever talk about feelings...I ask him to talk and tell me what he is feeling. I feel our love is gone and he is only here because he feels he has too. I am still in such a fog. No counselling all this time. I thougt I/we could work it out. But we have both changed.
Anonymous, I'm so sorry you find yourself part of our club...but glad you're here. Often, when the actual wound of the infidelity isn't properly addressed, it doesn't really heal. The raw pain gives way to a general sadness. You might not fight but you also don't feel connected. It's all evidence that the wound is still there, it's just not acknowledged. I believe that counselling is crucial to heal from betrayal. It's a safe space to process all the pain, to examine the relationship and talk about the messy stuff with someone to keep you on track and to keep the conversation relatively productive. And to provide a roadmap for where you go from here. This site has a ton of information too...and was conceived of as something of a roadmap. But it really helps to have a flesh-and-blood person who comes to know you and your husband (though just you, if you choose to go alone). You're in a holding pattern, Anonymous, and it sounds as though you're ready to move forward. Ideally, he'll move forward with you, but you need help figuring out what that looks like and he needs to understand that the only way to heal from this is to talk about it. It's still there, every single minute of every day. Not talking about isn't making it go away. It's just making you unbearably lonely.
Yes unbearably lonely is exactly how I feel. It certainly isn't the same relationship we used to have but i am unsure whether moving into a new relationship with him is the answer.
My h tells me I am a loving person but do not show him the affection that he is desperately seeking. But does it not work both ways? When I first found out, he was so affectionate and loving but that seems to have diminished. And then there is sex, something I still struggle with. My h never seems to be happy with any amount. I just don't know which way is up anymore. I am so incredibly sad. Sad for what is lost and sad because I don't have the strength to carry on with or without him.
Anonymous, So often we get our wires crossed and expect our partner to just know what we want/need. It sounds as though you two could use some help sorting through each others' needs/wants around affection/sex. Do you have a couples counsellor that you're seeing? I think that's where you could work through a lot of this stuff. Often we're closer to what each other wants than we realize. I also find Esther Perel's podcasts are really really great. They're called Where do We Begin and it might help if you and your husband listened together and then talked about how each couple comes to some sort of resolution. But either way, I think a third party could help each of you get clear on exactly what you're asking for.
! I already have : ) . Xx
ReplyDelete�� THIS! ❤❤❤
ReplyDeleteI wish there was a "like" button. :)
ReplyDeleteExactly what I needed to read. This evening my h said "I don't mind you being around" in response to a question about going to an in-law's event.
ReplyDeleteBeen there, done that, and its the best thing I ever did!!
ReplyDeleteHey lovely ladies... I've reeeeeally been into self improvement in all areas of life lately... like exploding to be the best person I can be. I feel like now that the unthinkable has happened in the most brutal way... why be scared of life?? Why be scared of anything? The world is my oyster!! Oh man. So corny!! And maybe not even right - I always get those sayings mixed up. HA!
ReplyDeleteAnyways I'm LOVING Jordan Peterson videos at the moment. And his lesson on relationships is top notch in my eyes AND it's funny. I have so much to learn!!! And so does my "rat" lol (the video will explain the rat reference)
https://youtu.be/9VM1UA0pCMQ
Happy Friday fun day!! :)
Xoxo
Blindsided.
I'm decidedly not a Jordan Peterson fan so I could only watch a few minutes of this. But we each learn from whatever teacher speaks to us.
DeleteI suspect we all have plenty to learn and that the learning continues until the day we die, assuming we're open to it.
I just read up on him. Lots in the news in the last 15-18 hours about him or even the past week. I see his recent new book is getting released. I did not get the connection with Marc Andreasen. And then lots of biblical you tube posts.
DeleteGosh, I have become so much better at doing this. I now see myself as strong and able and only bending at times under the strain of all the awful and stressful things that have happened over the past few years. I have taken a stand and stood up for what I want and who I am Having said that, it's a tough week, still the shadow of the awful tragic death of our young nephew, still the deepseated hurts resurfacing from our eldest boy with Aspergers, still conflict and difficulty and school refusal. Still my husband collapsing in on himself when hearing my son and I discuss a difficult episode from last summer. And then I'd applied for a job - they were taking on several library assistants. I'm more than qualified and had done voluntary library work in my daughter's school for years and was selected years back for a job (which I didn't take as I was going back to education) but I didn't get high enough on the panel this time to be offered a job. It's fine, it was going to be a juggle with the kids, I'll try for something else and now I get to keep writing my novels but I wanted a change of scene, a chance to build confidence and to get out of the house that has been the scene for so many difficult times. I can do all I can mentally to strengthen myself but it's not great when the people around you are still adding pressures and not stepping up fully (my husband is in very useful IC but he has not made any special efforts or nods to the trigger month of January and the fact that he has been undermining the marriage up to Sept 17 with new, inappropriate friendships. I believe that given all that's happened I have to right to ask for support and reparation of some kind. He isn't sure what that entails and I feel like maybe I'm asking him to jump through hoops. But I've been loving, understanding and kind and come so close to him again, despite the kick in the teeth, I think I deserve to be told how much this chance and being with me means to him.
ReplyDeleteFOH - I have nothing other than validating your final statement ... you do deserve that from your H - if not for the sheer fact that he realizes just how lucky he is to have this additional chance!
DeleteHugs!
FOH, I think under the circumstances we are under as the betrayed spouse we really can ask for anything and everything we need to even consider staying and/or starting to feel safe. My therapist was adamant about this. My therapist said my husband had his chance that I gave him for years. I was trusting, worked on our marriage, was supportive, created a positive family environment, and many more things. In my case my husband was fully aware of what harm his actions would have on him, me, our kids and our marriage. He had the tools to not do what he did. And honestly I think most wayward spouses do. I would say my kids at a young age would know what he did was wrong if asked. I know there are other factors such as mental illness but at least in my case my husband knew what he was doing and just did not care and did it anyways.
DeleteAnd I also think this is a long process. There was the initial effort my husband had to make for me to even consider staying. Then the real work started. My husband is more equipped than most husbands most likely. He speaks of how he has thought about living an authentic and transparent life in all ways. I have listened carefully to his words but more than anything I judge his actions. And over these almost three years not everything has been his way. But what is interesting is he said he was unsure he could do it or be the person who he wanted to be. Now he says it is not work. He has learned how to think of others first. This is mind boggling to me but he was entitled growing up and got whatever he wanted including lots of attention. But now he said he is happiest when he takes the time to make a decision and consider me, the kids, and other factors like his health, sleep, well being. He really was living his life like a teenage boy. He would leave the house and did not care or think about me or the kids and told me that. He just pretended he was not married or had kids.
In the end do what works for you. I try to use words from my voice. And explain my feelings. We hit a big change in our relationship when he stopped being defensive and I stopped being hyper emotional. He has always told me to remove emotions when dealing with our kids and it always makes a big difference. Now I do the same with him. We get farther. It is not that I express no emotions but for two years after dday I cried easily and it just took a toll on me and would keep our progress from going farther. Also I think I reached my point of not being able to cry anymore.
And yes you should be told that he understands how valuable a second or third chance whatever chance it is and what that means to him.
FOH,
DeleteHave you asked him to, specifically, tell you (or write you, or audio record himself, or whatever) exactly what this "second chance" means to him and why he wants to be with you? I think that's a perfectly reasonable request and would go a long way, in his own mind, of sorting through what you and his marriage means to him.
Thanks Kimberly, it means a lot to me to have these sentiments validated! And Hopeful I found it so interesting what you said about your husband not being defensive and you not being hyper emotional is very relevant to where my husband and I are now. We are definitely moving strongly that way. My son has noticed that I don't get over emotional now and I can hear my voice come strongly now when I speak to my husband, not from a place of weakness or desperation.
ReplyDeleteExactly. How he explained it to me when dealing with children is that the emotions distract from the point you are trying to make. He told me that for years and it does work with your kids. They feed off of you too. So if you are emotional they will feed off of that. So I thought I need to try this no matter how hard it is. And of course this was well past dday and those gut reactions. At a certain point being emotional with every discussion was exhausting and not getting me anywhere. I needed to mix it up. I thought crying and getting caught up in my emotions is helping no one here. If I am really going to make a go at this marriage I need to try a new way. And I thought if it works with my kids then why not try it with him. Once I was less emotional he became less defensive. We did have a few discussions around his need to not be defensive or move into "fix it mode" which is his normal reaction. I told him you can not go back and fix anything so you need to change. It has worked out so far with lots of work and a lifetime of work ahead of us.
DeleteI am approaching two years since dday. I still have thoughts ofvleaving and being on my own. I have been married 37 years and never thought I would be here. The affair still makes me feel ill. I do try to get past the emotions but it is a struggle for me..daily. still after all of this time. I think I should be so much further than I am. My h buys me things. Always has..now I believe that is what he thinks will keep me happy. I tell him he doesnt need to keep buying me things. But I guess if thst is what he wants to do I will just let him. He doesn't want fo ever talk about feelings...I ask him to talk and tell me what he is feeling. I feel our love is gone and he is only here because he feels he has too. I am still in such a fog. No counselling all this time. I thougt I/we could work it out. But we have both changed.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
DeleteI'm so sorry you find yourself part of our club...but glad you're here.
Often, when the actual wound of the infidelity isn't properly addressed, it doesn't really heal. The raw pain gives way to a general sadness. You might not fight but you also don't feel connected. It's all evidence that the wound is still there, it's just not acknowledged.
I believe that counselling is crucial to heal from betrayal. It's a safe space to process all the pain, to examine the relationship and talk about the messy stuff with someone to keep you on track and to keep the conversation relatively productive. And to provide a roadmap for where you go from here. This site has a ton of information too...and was conceived of as something of a roadmap. But it really helps to have a flesh-and-blood person who comes to know you and your husband (though just you, if you choose to go alone).
You're in a holding pattern, Anonymous, and it sounds as though you're ready to move forward. Ideally, he'll move forward with you, but you need help figuring out what that looks like and he needs to understand that the only way to heal from this is to talk about it. It's still there, every single minute of every day. Not talking about isn't making it go away. It's just making you unbearably lonely.
Yes unbearably lonely is exactly how I feel. It certainly isn't the same relationship we used to have but i am unsure whether moving into a new relationship with him is the answer.
ReplyDeleteMy h tells me I am a loving person but do not show him the affection that he is desperately seeking. But does it not work both ways? When I first found out, he was so affectionate and loving but that seems to have diminished. And then there is sex, something I still struggle with. My h never seems to be happy with any amount. I just don't know which way is up anymore. I am so incredibly sad. Sad for what is lost and sad because I don't have the strength to carry on with or without him.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
DeleteSo often we get our wires crossed and expect our partner to just know what we want/need. It sounds as though you two could use some help sorting through each others' needs/wants around affection/sex. Do you have a couples counsellor that you're seeing? I think that's where you could work through a lot of this stuff. Often we're closer to what each other wants than we realize.
I also find Esther Perel's podcasts are really really great. They're called Where do We Begin and it might help if you and your husband listened together and then talked about how each couple comes to some sort of resolution. But either way, I think a third party could help each of you get clear on exactly what you're asking for.