The kickass survival site for anyone who's ever been lied to, cheated on and left for dead.
I know I keep harping on this, but you should really do a forum b/c one is badly needed. the Sister's of Survival site was more like a "might as well leave him" and it was so negative I had to leave. Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of support, but I was just depressed there and felt no hope. There is another big forum out there but the men say some pretty crude things. It's SO big they can't keep the comments in check and they are very triggering. I'd be willing to pay $10 a month for something like that. Also have you considered doing articles on porn addiction? I kinda feel like the odd woman out. don't get me wrong, your posts apply to me b/c porn is adultery and it often leads to affairs and/or prostitutes. And it does just as much damage to the marriage too. I think you'd be filing a huge gap out there. I've been mods on political blogs and one sexual addiction blog that I had to bow out of b/c my daughter was sick, but I'd be willing to lend a hand. I know you don't know me from Adam, but my D day was 10 years ago Christmas so I'm seasoned at this shit. LOL. PTSD, nightmare, insomnia and a partridge in a pear tree ha!If you don't have time, I understand. It's just that there are NO good forums out there too. I love your articles but I forget where I post b/c I'm so air headed. Blessings and Merry Christmas hon. You've come a LONG way.
Hi Anne,Yes, you're not the first who's wished for a chat forum on this site. I just lack the tech-expertise (techpertise??) to create such a thing. Nor do I have the time to moderate something like that right now. But I do appreciate how wonderful it feels to have people respond to your comments in real time.Re. porn addiction: That was part of my husband's issues (he had a LOT of issues...) too. The porn was sort of his gateway drug to sex addiction. So I absolutely agree that it's a problem for many marriages. I could add a section on the site for anyone dealing with porn issues if you think that would be helpful. The Separating/Divorcing section has ended up being a great place for the women who felt somewhat left out of the rest of the site where many of us are/have reconciled. Let me know what you think.
I believe that Porn was a gateway drug for my husband also. I'm not sure how a forum works and sometimes I feel frantic to talk to someone here, like Steam or Hopeful 30 in "real" time and then I just remind myself to breathe. Yesterday was 18 months out for me and I feel so much better than I did a year ago. I am hopeful. I can't change the fact that my husband has many broken pieces in his head and life but I am working on how to rethink and relook at how I interpret those things with regard to my life. It has been a very hard journey with much second guessing however I think I am well on my way. Doing a Grateful Journal has helped me to see how far I've come. Just don't make time to do it daily but when I do, it is good. I look forward to hearing about all the tools people gather to help them move forward. That is what I want in my tool box. Peace and love to all. Heading home from Maui today to snow! Yikes! Plus kids and grandkids and granddogs too.
Beach girlMy kids, grandkids and grand dog are pretty important tools for me! Just seeing the smiles on their faces brings joy into my heart!
I agree sometimes I want to connect on here and forget where I posted. I think we used to use the "Feeling Stuck" tab more but I think that one is full right now. I also cannot post from my phone and think some of my posts on here have not popped up. I work so hard every day to focus on me and what I can control and to speak up at the first sign of any issues I might have at all. It helps me to feel better and to make my husband aware of how I feel. He has been working so hard but it is easy for me to be skeptical and cautious. And this time of year just gets me. So many reminders of time alone. And also it is a time when he is off spending social time with others. Much less than in past years and he turns down a lot of invitations, but however it is hard. I try to focus on my kids since they are so important to me. Slowing down and focusing on myself and them helps me not feel stressed which impacts me negatively as an individual and also as a couple.Beach Girl good luck coming back to winter. Fall was awesome but winter has come on strong and hard. Yuck.
My husband was also addicted to porn and it opened the door for the affair. Sometimes just thinking about it makes my head spin. Many people in my extended family had issues with addiction, but I never believed it when I heard people were addicted to porn or sex. I continue to read about it when I can and a lot of what I read is relflective of my husband's history and his behavior leading up to and during the affair. I was very naive to the damage that porn has the potential to cause in some people. I suspect there are quite a few of us here who might benefit from a section dedicated to that. Thanks, Elle!
Porn addiction over here too. Lead to sex workers in massage parlors. Lead to affair. (little pause in between while I did an epic, co-dependent pick me/save the marriage dance) Lead to divorce. I've read some great pieces on the impact of porn on relationships and husbands report feeling less for their wives, stop seeing them as human, even stop being able to be aroused by real people, without the extra stimulus. Gross. I'll see if I can dig it up.
I heard someone say that men don't view porn, they "use" porn... and it's so readily available. SS - One book/site someone recommended is Chamberlain's "Love You, Hate the Porn." It made total sense to me. It hit me six months after d-day -- I confronted h and landed on d-day 2. "You thought it was no big deal, watching women get f*d every day, then you're shocked when it happens?" The silver lining was that I became less obsessed with ow. Now she was just another stupid blow-up doll. I made h read articles on porn addiction and he said yup, that's me. He decided that he can't handle alcohol OR porn in any amount. No guarantees, but two years and counting. Thank you, warriors -- your words keep me going.
It makes me so sad that porn can have such an effect on a person .. I'm wondering if maybe my h is/has been involved in porn too.. everything you say ss is true to my situation.. when I think about it porn has been apart of our 14 year relationship we used to like watching it together but makes me wonder whether he has been tapping into it privately.. wouldn't surprise me.. there's no change in my situation still living separately with separate lives I swing between divorce and reconciliation often but I will carry on this way till I'm certain of what I want to do.. Suffering with an ear infection 😩 Feel crap and sorry for myself .. we take being well for granted don't we? Ladies all I want for Christmas is happiness and health for you all .. my true warriors.. lots of love xxx
Porn addiction in my house too. But it's so odd as my H does web programming and one of his clients deals in nightclubs which often features porn actors as guests. This is turn had led to MANY searches/saves on the internet for content over the years . I never liked that porn. But it didn't bother me no no end, of course stupid me didn't think he watched much of that porn. Add to that a side of "well that's why guys do". Grrr I had lost all sight of what normal looked like. I had no idea the extent on his computer (because it's in his business section on the computer) until recently. I don't have words or numbers to express how MUCH of it he has. Well beyond the scope of what anyone would need for ANY type of work. He has always said he "collects" and does not watch much . A part of me believes he doesn't watch much (he hoards things in real life as well) but when he does or did watch that HAD to fuel the fire.its such a distorted reality. how EXTREME it is is what is so shocking. Stuff I did not even know existed. I could give you search terms but you don't want them. After years of me being "pro" porn (you know, if they want to do it and are getting paid to do it- their choice) and also pro sex worker (a disabled friend was a regular client of hookers years ago) I'm angry that I was A) so naive to believe his explanations and B) that I'm angry with hookers/strippers/sex workers now. An entire already marginalized population of women who often do these things only to support their kids or extended family Dislike these feelings.
I agree I totally see a connection to using porn and having affairs. To me it shifts their boundaries and gives them a distorted connection to what is real and fantasy. I have read a lot and with what is available now days it is a huge issues. It is not just looking at a playboy magazine or the same VHS tape over and over. My husband and I still disagree related to the impact it had on his behavior. He will say he thinks our relationship is better the less he uses it. He has never been able to give me an exact usage amount. I don't think it is very often now as we are together so much more. But he did say during the affair years it was probably several times a week. Who knows. To me it seems so obvious the connection especially since he did not have a strong relationship with either affair partner and didn't care much about their lives. He had no plans for them, did not love them etc. The parallels there seem strong that he was using them just like he uses porn. Always more work to do...
I waited and watched. I wanted to see if my H wanted to be with ME in my cathedral not just near my cathedral. Being with me instead of near me. He had to own his shit to be in my cathedral. He had to show his worthiness to be in my cathedral. Anything less was just wanting to be near me. Wanting to be near me was not good enough. It would have been just like when he was with the OW being a cake eater. That was my compass of true recovery but it took me a long time to build the cathedral then decide if I wanted him with me. All the woman on this site and my therapist handed me a few splinters over the last three years to keep trying and building. Just think how long it would take to build a cathedral with splinters, it was a slower painful process than I ever dreamed of. Thank you.
LLP what was your turning point? I've said a few times that i am in limbo this month. My 2014 where everything was astoundingly good has led me to such mistrust on everything he says, because I believed it so fully then. Just about Whatever I asked for I got so now I trust next to nothing that's said to me. And not a lot is coming anyway. Reality is what I thought was an affair on DDAY 1 was just the tip of the SA ice burg which he put on the back burner for about a year. So I know how to deal with an affair but sm not so sure about this sex addict thing. I've promised myself time to get home and into therapy with him, continue on my own and do some 12 step. Reality is I have no idea what to do about "us" right now and I'm willing to learn more from the pros before I make anyMOre decisions. So I'm feeling quite stuck about the relationship. Know I'd be fine but sad on my own. I'm looking for something to make me want to work it out MORE THAN ANYTHING, not just something that is to give it another chance if that makes sense.
In my heart, my really turning point was this summer. I did wait and see for 2.5 years. One foot out the door and one eye open but I never had Dday 2 like you. I knew I could leave anytime I wanted. I was strong enough I had been through divorce before. I kept telling myself to weigh all my options. I sacrificed big time to get us in the financial positive for retirement for the last 20 years. He has 50 percent of my sacrifices and I wasn't going to give that up. He is eight years older than me so eventually I'll outlast him. He is totally absorbed into me. I mean every waking minute. He has really changed so much. He tells me how he feels. He told me he surrounded himself with a selfish shell and he doesn't want to go back. We have fun. We have the means to travel and he is fun. We like the same things. He has changed sexually too. He is patient, tender and thoughtful instead of wham bam. He always think of me first. Yes I still hurt. Yes I'm still in pain and yes I give him what-for about the affair. I have nothing to lose because the worst has already happened. I found me regardless if I stayed or left. I had a dream a few weeks ago. I had a choice. I could go to this place and they would turn me into beautiful, gorgeous Hollywood style woman or I could stay with him. I chose to stay with him in my dream and felt relief. I woke up at 3am crying. We got up and I sat on his lap while he rocked me in the rocking chair. I knew then I made the right choice for me. My love for him is different not more just different. But he is not addicted so it is so different. Wait it out and see. Your not stuck, he is the one that is stuck. That is why you feel stuck. Addicts of all types lie. Ask yourself is this time different? Is he acting different or the same? What is he doing differently this time? How is he acting different towards you? How does the wife of an alcoholic or drug addict know? Why don't you research how did they know? What are the statistics of someone on porn staying clean? What does he want to do about "us"? If you feel stuck something is not right. Something doesn't fit. He played the false recovery card on you. I think that is your question. Is this real recovery? Just wait if you can from a financial aspect. You don't have anything to lose. Put him in limbo for awhile. You are never really stuck.
Steam, he sounds like he is in deep with the porn stuff. It may take awhile. Something else for you to consider.
I recently discovered that my husband's porn use (when you had to pay) several years ago was far worse that I thought it was. I had a naive view of 'it's okay to dabble ever so often.' Its only now I've found the old credit card records. The three older kids were only 4, 2 and a baby. After the affair (D0day 1 nearly 3 years ago) he had a view slightly kinky photo downloads but says now he is finished with all that. I am still reeling from another layer of secrecy in our lives. He swears the affair was not physical apart from hand holding and hugs, coffee and dinner. When she sent me a note once discovered and realising maybe that she wasn't going to 'win' she said "We had a very intense full emotional and physical relationship from May 2012 to June2013. Not just an emotional one as he told you". He has said over and over there was no more and as she was a recently separated mother of siz, her time wasn't very free for liaisons. I probably believe him that it was not physical but there is a niggling doubt that goes on and on.
Porn played a huge role in our issues. Our single mommy bought it for us in our early teens. He has a narcissistic mother with sexual abuse history and boundary issues. This seems to have essentially put mom’s stamp of approval on that being how women work. He had the expectation that arousal worked like it does in the pornos and I eventually gave up on arguing with him he was so sure he was right and he wasn’t going to be told he should “settle for” less. If I didn’t get that level of excited just looking at him, he would say no to me on the grounds that he felt like he was taking advantage of me. So I told him I couldn’t give him what he wanted and he went without for long stretches. Eventually, he decided I was broken and found someone who would give him what he wanted and convinced himself I was okay with it when I thought he’d asked for a divorce and then changed his mind. (Oh yeah, mommy taught us we need to read minds and then do what we think people want us to without directly speaking to them about it.) COW looooved porn and was an eager participant in giving him exactly what he expected. He felt bad for “taking advantage” of her eventually rather than having an actual relationship and sat and read books with her -- about porn stars! It definitely powerfully influenced how he thought sex worked. He has issues with wanting “fantasy” play all the time. He’s either getting better after being told I’d rather he wanted ME than me pretending something or other or else he’s taken this underground. And he still seems to overall view sex as basically just a sport which is fine with me provided I feel personally appreciated rather than just warm plumbing.Personally, porn entertains me for approximately 10 minutes before I find it mechanical and get bored.
http://www.wbur.org/dearsugar/2016/12/02/dear-sugar-episode-seventy-ninehttp://www.wbur.org/dearsugar/2016/12/16/dear-sugar-episode-eightyI found Dear Sugar chock full of personal recovery gold. There were 2 recent episodes about porn. I heard the first one and found alot of things to consider. It didn't touch on infidelity (which I think porn often feeds) but lots to ponder about how to be respected in a relationship.
I'm part way through listening. I always find their podcasts thought-provoking, even if I don't always agree with the advice. Thanks for posting this!
Steam you are really on my mind. Pretend you go back with him. In your mind how does that look? Are you happy at that picture? What kind of woman do you want to look like in that picture? I will be happy only if ..... which is an unknown in that picture? If you go back if may be impossible to know what is im the future? My therapist taught me to question the things that can have an answer. Don't question something your not going to believe the answer anyway. I'm guessing you know what you are going to if he slides again. Is he still lying to you about his habit or the past? Has he lied to you about non-porn stuff? Cheaters lie about affairs, porn and sex from the past. What I look for are they lying NOW to me about today? You will figure this out. It is all gray for you not black and white. Do you want him or need him? Big difference. Try to look for anything you think is positive from him. If most of your answer to all my questions are no, then maybe he hasn't changed enough for a second chance. Love to you. You had my back for so longest trying to return the favor.
Short. Because my phone is eating everything's I don't eant to make this long because it could go poof. Far as I can tell (and I can) he's not watching the porn. He just can't part with it. And I need to tell him everything I need. I mean effing everything. I knows that I am not nearly as easy to convince this time around. After all the great things we did end learned in 2014 it "took" got me but not for him But I did not know about the addiction. Nor did this shrink so this is a bumpier ride Much.
Steam, have you thought about a lie detector for your husband? I've read in numerous places that addiction therapists often use this after the disclosure. Sending a hug.
MBS I had to put my brain/future thoughts in hold because my mind was going crazy. I keep asking what will be happy. And so much I know so much of that comes from inside me. And I can't find it. It's nuts!!! So it's time for my mind to rest untilI Or we are back into therapy. Everything I leaned in 2014 was so great. But it was based on couples therapy and I feel betrayed by that because I worked so hard and I not sure that he did. So new therapist in the new year. New approach and yes beachgirl. We're doing the lie detector. He knows it too and is ok with it.