Trickle truth is the name for what happens when a cheater gives one version of the affair but excludes some of the information. With time (and questions) more information and then more information "trickles" out. There are several versions of truth that come out over time, in bits and pieces.
My granddaughter wanted to get married at 20 years old. She made plans but didn’t want to tell the family. The truth was she wanted to get married, period. She didn’t want to say it out loud because of judgements, assumptions, unwanted advice and disapproval. She told us her plan in bits and pieces. She tested our family’s reaction with bits and pieces.
Cheaters test the water a little at time. What the betrayed hears is a small version of the truth. The cheater wants it to sound, well, not that bad. She was just a friend. She came on to me at work. I was in a lost state of mind. I didn’t think you cared. He wants to gauge your reaction.
I knew this person worked under my husband’s contract. He told me he felt sorry for her. Her husband left her because she had Parkinson’s. I suggested we invite her to Sunday family dinners if she was alone. My husband said she is mentally unstable. Then later, I saw a text that said, I fell last night and need TLC. My husband’s response, when I questioned him about the text was, she is crazy and not stable. I asked him to tell her that she needs to be professional and the text made me uncomfortable.
The next text I see is from my husband to the OW, What did you say the name of the perfume is? I confronted him. Then the trickle truth started and lasted four years. He trickled truth to the therapist for six months. If the therapist had known the entire truth, she would have taken a different approach. I felt like she really worked me over, when it should have been him. I had my suspicions. One night I took out the calendar and said this timeline doesn’t make sense. I would like to go over it again. He said, Can we take a break from it for a while? Then D-Day 2! The affair didn’t last a year, it lasted two-and-a-half years. Did he tell me? No, I saw a charge for a restaurant earlier than the affair started. I pulled over to the side of the road and called a lawyer.
With each fresh revelation, the betrayed spouse is sent back to D-Day.
The next text I see is from my husband to the OW, What did you say the name of the perfume is? I confronted him. Then the trickle truth started and lasted four years. He trickled truth to the therapist for six months. If the therapist had known the entire truth, she would have taken a different approach. I felt like she really worked me over, when it should have been him. I had my suspicions. One night I took out the calendar and said this timeline doesn’t make sense. I would like to go over it again. He said, Can we take a break from it for a while? Then D-Day 2! The affair didn’t last a year, it lasted two-and-a-half years. Did he tell me? No, I saw a charge for a restaurant earlier than the affair started. I pulled over to the side of the road and called a lawyer.
With each fresh revelation, the betrayed spouse is sent back to D-Day.
The first story, year one, I asked him how much money did he “loan" her. He said $800. I looked at the bank statements again in year four and there was an additional check for $300. I called the bank and yep, the additional $300 was written to her. He said he forgot. A large blow-up lasted three days accompanied by a therapy session.
I got version A of the truth. I try to wrap my head around it. I start to deal with it. Next is version B so the time between A and B is wasted time in the healing process. I try to wrap my head around this new information. I feel pain again.
Now he says the last version was the last detail and I know everything now. Guess what? That doesn’t mean anything to me because I’m convinced that there is still more information. It is not only information I seek but an understanding. Like trying to understand, when my husband drops the OW like a hot coal. Suddenly he turns to me to say I love you. He switched his allegiance from her to me so suddenly. It is hard to believe what he says when he switches his allegiance to me and the OW goes up in a puff of smoke. I keep asking the same questions over and over to try to get to the truth and more information.
Now he says the last version was the last detail and I know everything now. Guess what? That doesn’t mean anything to me because I’m convinced that there is still more information. It is not only information I seek but an understanding. Like trying to understand, when my husband drops the OW like a hot coal. Suddenly he turns to me to say I love you. He switched his allegiance from her to me so suddenly. It is hard to believe what he says when he switches his allegiance to me and the OW goes up in a puff of smoke. I keep asking the same questions over and over to try to get to the truth and more information.
Here is the point, eventually you will conclude you are never, ever, ever going to get the entire truth. It will take a long time to be sure he loves you. A woman can only go through that process a number of times, which makes you think, I’m never going to heal. I started by asking my husband, “What is your definition of a lie”.
Definitions can differ. Get on the same page. Explain to him, lies are self-preservation that can turn into destruction. Even if he doesn’t get caught lying, it damages your healing and marriage. His intentions do not justify the lying. No matter what he says you won’t be manipulated or controlled by his omissions. It is not about becoming honest eventually. It is about becoming honest immediately.
You've been through hell and back Lynn. I hope things are better in your life now. I remember some of your post on this blog and my heart always hurt for you. But through all the pain you showed everyone how strong you really are.
ReplyDeleteTrickle truth is so incredibly challenging. Just when you think you have at least some semblance of how this story played out, another level of complexity is added in throwing you off balance once again. I'm 4 years out now and I'm still learning even more about how strong and deep my husband's 13 year affair was. It's exhausting and as you said LLP each new revelation sets you back to square one. And yes, I resent the waste of time. Tell me the WHOLE darn story please, so I can process it, adjust my reality and move on. But I know that will never happen. My husband is not much of a communicator at the best of times and he sure didn't want to discuss this! So I called and texted the OW (in the Philippines), found out information on line, asked questions (and when the answers didn't add up, did some more investigating and asked again). It has been an uphill battle but I needed to know what I needed to know, as incredibly painful as it is. I value the truth but I know I am married to a liar. My husband is old and not well now. He tells me every day that he loves me but I don't understand how that can be when he was so involved with this OW for so many years. And yes, it will take a long time before I will believe it. Thank you for this post LLP.
ReplyDeleteLynn less pain
ReplyDeleteI’m still waiting for you to be Lynn no pain left, you have picked me up by your posts and Elle laying it on the line too, so many times in the journey we’re on, thanks for once again just saying what some of us have lived through...hugs!
Lynn it's so good hearing from you! You were such a big part of my 1st year.
ReplyDeleteMy therapist has assured me I will NEVER know everything. And I don't mean all of the minute details ... I mean even the big details - numbers, names, places, time periods ... none of that will ever truly be known. She keeps challenging me to sit with that truth and figure out if I can accept that and move forward ... or if I need to move on.
I keep telling her it's not the details I want, it's the need for him to put someone other than himself first and make the effort to come clean - knowing that I won't get the whole truth.
Bleh. I'm struggling again.
Kimberly,
DeleteWhile I know that I will never have ALL the details, I had enough. And my husband's willingness to put together a full disclosure letter -- detailing everything HE remembered -- made a big difference. Ultimately, I decided I didn't want one. I knew enough and felt that knowing more details would only hurt my further. He cheated. A lot. That I knew.
And frankly, I can't even remember a lot of the details he did tell me. Not sure if that's self-preservation or just a 55-year-old brain that's full of a whole lot of stuff.
I suspect it's the concern that your husband is withholding information that's part of what's holding you back. We want to know that our husbands are willing to come clean, that they're willing to make themselves enormously uncomfortable in order to put everything behind them and to rebuild a relationship based on honesty.
"We want to know that our husbands are willing to come clean, that they're willing to make themselves enormously uncomfortable in order to put everything behind them and to rebuild a relationship based on honesty."
DeleteElle - this is EXACTLY how I feel.
But here's the deal, I don't feel like I've ever been given a true disclosure. I feel pretty confident about his affair I know about. But it's the years past and the year after I found out that I'm certain he's withholding information about.
He told me once, "what more do you need to know, you know the worst of it." Maybe he's right. But I also think he's wrong. Yes. I know that ultimately I found out that you had an affair and had sex with this 1 person. And you've come clean on things that I was able to find evidence on. But there are 10 years in between that you want me to believe you were "sober" and NOTHING happened?
As horrible as trickle truth is, and it IS truly and utterly horrible, I would not have been able to hear the entirety of my husband's infidelities in one whole swoop and still agreed to continue with the marriage. At the beginning I thought there were three women over the course of 3 years. Come to find out it was over 20 women, spanning 15 of our 19 year marriage. This information took months to reveal. I still wonder if I have the entire story. Upon discovery, my husband stopped all of it but MY GOD, over one year post d-day and I still can't believe he did this.
ReplyDeleteAndrea,
DeleteYou can see what I wrote to Kimberly (above). Yes, I was like you. I got part of the story and then a WHOLE lot more of the story six months later. And it was overwhelming.
Like yours, my husband stopped entirely, which makes a big difference too, I think.
It remains hard for me to believe. I don't know that I will ever fully understand how/why he acted out in the way he did. But I've accepted that he was a sex addict using sex to self-medicate. I get that on an intellectual level. But wow- hard to take in, isn't it?
It's incredibly hard to take in. I had this vision of who my husband was at his core and it wasn't correct. In this vision, my husband was a man who, although imperfect as we all are, would NEVER willingly hurt me. I believed this with all my heart. In fact, a large part of the reason I loved him was because he possessed this attribute -- because he was a good man, a man of integrity, and he would never hurt me.
DeleteUh-oh.
I don't expect people to be perfect. I understand that to be human is to make mistakes. But, my God!, the betrayal and deception here was off-the-charts.
While I am so glad my husband stopped entirely upon discovery, a part of me feels "If it was so freaking easy for you to just stop, why the hell didn't you when you realized this behavior was tanking our marriage?!?"
In the beginning of his cheating (2 years into our marriage), he thought he could do both -- keep the lovely suburban marriage to me (Donna Reed!) and have some occasional sleazy skanky but oh-so-exciting sex with ghetto sluts on the side. He didn't think the two-worlds would collide. He didn't think what he did there (in the 'hood) would effect our marriage here in la-la land. He kept everything separate. In fact, he even referred to it as his "work" life. He said, "Andrea, I had my home life and my work life." He's a police officer in the ghetto and all his affairs were conducted there. He made sure to choose from that pool. Cardi B stuff. Not at all like me. Not at all like him. But, he had this itch to scratch and once he got on a narcotics unit where all the other guys were cheating scum, he got the green light I guess he needed to take his chat problem live.
As his behavior progressed, he became more and more disconnected to me. His sex drive dwindled. He attributed it to work stress. I believed him because he did have a stressful job. I doubled down on being extra supportive, nice, cool, and all around downright wonderful.
By 2015 he was going nuts with this stuff, juggling multiple hoes simultaneously. His secret life firmly entrenched, he stopped having sex with me entirely. He says he couldn't be with me because of the guilt.
I started to think he was a closet homosexual or asexual because he seemed to have no sexual impulses at all. What an idiot I am!!!!
My belief in his "goodness" made me unable to see what any other woman would have clearly suspected.
Well, it's all out now.
Here I am 14 months later. Our marriage counselor thinks I have complicated grief because I'm not farther along in healing.
Ugh.
Andrea - "My belief in his "goodness" made me unable to see what any other woman would have clearly suspected."
DeleteThis. Right here. I wonder how many others feel this way after discovery.
And I think your marriage counselor is 100% correct! I don't know if you are seeing an individual therapist too? I started, then stopped. Then refused to go ... then had to go through some pretty shitty ones to find my rock. She's amazing and when she looked up one day after a session and said "Oh, Kimberly ... you have PTSD (or more precisely PISD)" I wanted to kiss her! Finally validation that I wasn't crazy!
@Andrea I found your situation to be extremely like mine. Mine situation is new. How has life been since? Is there hope? Did he have to change careers?
DeleteAndrea - "My belief in his "goodness" made me unable to see what any other woman would have clearly suspected."
DeleteThis. Right here. I wonder how many others feel this way after discovery.
I feel this way. I don’t even know who he really is now. It hurts so much
Andrea 1 year out i was still feeling the unstable ground shake below me of a shattered life i thought i knew. 8mo past dday and the ow was still sporadically trying to insert herself into our life she just couldn't believe he stayed or more so I let him! Nights laying awake? Nights crying where the bathroom floor felt like superglue to my hungry and tired body and yet i managed to go to work daily, mother children and some how get thru the motions of life ... just show up Elle reminded me. Just selfcare and make it thru the day said all the warrior princess... ME TOO i heard repeatedly... me too Andrea 11 years it went on sporadically at first and then the last 4 years before i found out it was fully in almost leading a double life zone! It used to bring me to my knees 4 years plus out a d i still cant fathom all of it ... complete bat shit craziness. Things are different..most days its in my rearview mirror other days im reminded or it stops me in my thoughts ... i chant wounded not broken. Take care if u
ReplyDeleteOMG, my friends I need your opinion. Here are the facts. We had dinner with friends. My H has a cardiology consult on Monday because he has an abnormal stress test. He got drunk. Fell asleep on the friends porch. As I was getting ready to leave, the hostess hugged me and said, John told me about his affair, he is worried abbot you. The hostess admitted she had an affair. I said, he really told you that? She said yes, We are in the car and I'm driving. I asked him w..hat they talked about. He was vague. I told him the hostess talked about her affair. I asked him what did he talked about himself. He gave me a vague answer and continued to talk. I asked him if he told her about his affair. He just was vague. Then I told him, she told me you told her. He said he didn't remember. I called bullshit. I'm so upset that he didn't tell the truth about their conversation. I feel rejected, lied too, blown off, unsafe again and just like phuck this. I'm tired so tired of this. I'm sleeping out on patio with my dogs. I mean, he still is lying. I think in the morning, I'm just going to be quiet and see what he says. I'm so tired, very tired of this kind of connection bullshit. Any thoughts on how I should handled this. We are 6 years out for crying out loud. I'm so hurt he still can't be honest with me.
ReplyDeleteOh LLP, I'm so sorry for this latest upset. When will these men get it that just telling the truth can "move mountains" as Wounded writes? I think you handled it the best way you could. After 6 years, I'm sure he is well aware how important the truth is to you. However, a) he had too much to drink and b)he is worrying about his up-coming medical tests so he wasn't in the best form to hold to your standard...and it made it that much easier to open up to the hostess. And I agree with Wounded, that would infuriate me too because I would be thrilled if MY husband would be open with me "wholeheartedly and without being asked to do so". If he doesn't bring it up, I think you should, and just reinforce for the 99th time (these guys are slow learners) just how important the truth is to you. Hugs.
DeleteLLP,
DeleteI'm so sorry. I suspect with your husband that lying has, likely, been so much of a part of how he moves through the world that it barely registers with him. And by "lying" I mean, not being fully honest as opposed to telling actual falsehoods.
I agree with Jenna, though, that timing probably played a role. He'd had too much to drink (sounds like quite a bit too much), he had an appointment the next day that might have been anxiety-provoking. I'm also curious why you phrased it the way you did -- asking him IF he had the conversation when you'd already been told he'd had it. On some level, you're looking to catch him in falsehoods, which I understand but which isn't fully honest yourself. Perhaps a more truthful approach would be to tell him, "XYX told me about your conversation about infidelity. I'm curious why you told her...." or whatever it is you were wondering about.
It's hard, I know, especially when we've been burned so often by people we've trusted. But in order to truly create a marriage in which there's full honesty, it needs to be from both partners.
LLP I'm sorry that this happened and that his go to was to lie to you. You've heard from Elle and Jenna and yes there's anxiety about the tests. But the alcohol use here is just screaming at me as problematic. He got drunk enough to fall asleep on a friends' porch? Drunk enough to not totally recall what he was talking about? Alcohol may be a bit of an achilles heel for him, his go to when he can't or won't deal with difficult emotions like fear and anxiety, mortality. And then over use of alcohol to numb and hide leads to other bad behaviors like lying, that he maybe has a better handle on when he is sober. If he's got both heart and alcohol use issues, maybe he just simply should not drink any more.
DeleteIf you want resolution, then speak up for your needs, don't just sit quiet and wait to see what he does. No one knows what we need better than our own selves. Just be straight with him. Tell him "We are 6 years out for crying out loud. I'm so hurt you still can't be honest with me." I'm so sorry LLP. I know this is so exhausting and discouraging. At some point you'll know when you've had enough. Sending you strength and love.
Anon, I try to keep enforcing that truth is important. It is one of my core values. Elle, you are so right I keep trying to catch him in another lie so I need to stop. SS1 I took your advice and did speak up. It bothered me so much we both went to therapy. It was an AHH moment. He finally understood what I was talking about when the therapist like an interpreter told him so he could understand. Also he cannot show empathy. He tries but it just isn't there. This answered the question of why he could open up to other people and not me. He is not going to change but when I understand the underlying reason, I can deal with it. I'm paraphrasing this but it really opened up to me why he is the way he is. Why the OW would appeal to him. See below about men who lack empathy
DeleteHe has these characteristics. He is unable to step outside himself and get what I feel or how deeply I feel about an experience. This makes it hard to communicate with him. He jumps fast into criticizing others without putting himself in their shoes. He is out of touch with people that are hurting. He believes 100% in the rightness of his ideas, beliefs and he is a harsh judge of people. He feels entitled. Many times it is hard for him to show appreciation. He can get offended if he doesn't get his way. He talks all the time about himself when we are with friends. He doesn't listen to what they say and probably really doesn't care. He has a tendency to blame his actions on me or others. He thinks because I hurt or react negative that I'm oversensitive. I learned it is hard for him to create deep emotional connections. This is from an article, "People who lack empathy were probably raised in families who were avoiding to get in touch with their feelings and even condemned others for feeling their emotions. Some people have learned to shut down their feelings early in their lives to such a degree that they closed off their hearts and can’t even feel their own feelings – they certainly can’t relate or feel other people’s feelings. They are probably not even aware that such disconnection is like a defense mechanism from their ego because if they empathize, they need to relate, get in touch with their feelings and feel the pain." When I try to tell him my feelings, instead of compassion or understanding,I get judged. I'm learning not to take his judgement personally. If I do I feel completely empty. I need to accept he is probably never going to understand the depth of my feelings. This is hard but I don't need him to validate me and what I think of myself doesn't hinge on his opinion. What makes it easier to talk others instead of me, is he is walling himself off from his feelings, not going to be hurt. His mother was an emotionless, hard woman. Why is it difficult to talk to me, he doesn't want to be that vulnerable. Hell if he can't understand his emotions then wall off from the person that you love. Hold back. That is why he could talk with the OW - he didn't care about her. Therapy really helped me.
DeleteLLP ... my heart aches for you i honestly dont know if its an inability to be honest or a difference of anatomy in men being so vague, not on their shit and have abilities to decompartmentilzed that seem at times would require some super human power to pull off
ReplyDelete. seriously ..what i do know you are strong a true warrior and continue to hold value and unconditional love and a will to keep trying i only wish youd feel the same in return ... honesty and validation move mountiand i agree with you sighhh and prob would have been on porch too... focus on your selfcare until you feel more grounded ... i think part of the furry is because he opened up to this friend when all you truly want is him to be open with you wholeheartedly and without being asked to do so ... which i think is so very very reasonable and acceptable for u to not only want but expec . Xo
I, too, don't come here daily but when I do, I read something like your post that has me crying. I applaud and envy all the ladies who can write so eloquently.
ReplyDeleteIt's been decades for me & just a few weeks ago I learned something about H's affair that literally made it hard for me to breath, to take it all in, to feel more of my pain grow. And knowing this bit of information at this late date threw me back to 1981, when I endured the most horrendous pain I have ever felt in my soul, my heart and my being.
So, I am of the opinion that I will never know all of the truth.
Love to all here,
Carol the First
Carol the First,
DeleteI'm so sorry that you were blindsided by yet more information. I'm curious how your husband responded. Was he able to be with you in that pain, to support you and remind you that he has done the work of becoming a better man? If not, why not? I ask because I'm wondering if this is about old pain that got triggered or if this is about pain that's still present.
Carol the First, I am so sorry for your new pain. You just described my biggest fear and probably the one thing that continues to make me guarded and less that fully committed to my marriage. It is hard to explain but I do find it hard to believe that there will be a day when this 40 year betrayal will be behind me. It doesn't bring me to my knees anymore but thee are times when I ruminate and let his lousy life choices steal my peace and joy. That just pisses me off that I am unable to find that compartment to stuff him and his past into. Big hugs to you. Thanks for still hanging around.
DeleteElle,
DeleteMy H was the one to bring it up. We were having a frank discussion with wine about a trigger, a song from days past, that I told him I used to associate with him but now I associate with them. He then disclosed yet another trickle fact. I believe it shocked me because, after all these years, I thought I knew ALL the truth but found out I didn't. Just when I thought I knew the story of us, I now have to reweave this new addition into it. Old pain trigger vs pain still present? A little of both. It brought me to the morning of August 1981 when I called him early a.m. & heard her voice talking to him as she walked out of the shower in his motel room. That was old pain. Still present pain because, as Beach Girl writes, as much as I would love to freely give myself & be fully committed, I remain a little guarded still.
My H responded by accepting the guilt that plagues him yet. He fully understands now that by his choices, this will happen. I will always have a problem with her having the same name as me, as often as MC's dismiss it as not being important. It wasn't until 2015, when I felt my obligations to my family were completed, that I asked for a divorce. He was blindsided. He dedicated his time to MC, IC and reading. He gives me space when I need it and will talk when I need it. He occasionally reads this blog. I must say that, in 2016 he stayed with me when I was critically ill in the hospital for a month with C Diff from chemo. He was my main caregiver, coordinating home nursing, physical & occupational therapy, and caring for all my needs when I couldn't walk or hold a spoon. I was depressed during this time but he was always cheerful, encouraging & supportive, even telling my bald self that I was beautiful. He proved he loved me by sticking to the vow "in sickness & in health". I talked with my therapist just after I recuperated, asking why I had his Affair on my mind all the time. She told me that my H had let me down, betrayed me. Now my usually healthy body had let me down with cancer, betrayed me. She made the connection.
I am now rewriting our long history to be as it really was, not how I thought it was.
Beach Girl, I always look for your posts as I think we are similar in some respects. It's OK to feel a little guarded. I, too, would love to find a compartment to stuff my H into. But I'm just not wired that way. Instead I think am I better off with or without him. With wins out.
Besides, at my age imagine how old a man would have to be for me to be his young affair partner!
Love to all,
Carol the First
Carol the First, I'm so sorry about this latest revelation and the pain it has brought you. You have had a challenging road to travel. Thank you for sharing more of your story. I had read some of your earlier posts and have wondered how you had made out after your cancer diagnosis. I'm so glad to hear your husband was so supportive at that time.
DeleteMy husband had his first affair in 1980 and now a second one beginning in 2004 that lasted for 13 years, discovered by me in 2015 as I too was recovering from cancer. The trickle truth has still continued, the latest twist to this saga uncovered in the summer. And yes, my reality once again needed revising. Am I better off with him or without him? Depends on the day!! And yes, I would need to find a very old man in order to qualify as his young AP too! Hugs.
Jenna,
DeleteOur stories are similar. I'm very sorry that you, too, are a cancer warrior but I pray you are doing well now. The last thing you need is trickle truth added to your battle with cancer! My thoughts are with you.
Carol the First
Carol the first that horrendous pain is depleting i know but i also know it wont break u might make u stop for a moment no doubt take care of yourself when you feel youve stumbled i have no clue what u could have found all this time later ... could happen to anyone of us and in sure feels like a sucker punch bringing salt to a wound u thought semi healed i pray u find sparkle in your day and know inside and out 1981 doesnt define you. Nope. U define u every day u show up. Peace my friend wounded warrior princess i send u hugs love and grace during this time of need.
ReplyDelete