This program is a truth-telling program. That’s how it turns us into free people.
~Ron H., Centre for Action and Contemplation, referring to Alcoholics Anonymous
The truth will set you free. But first it will piss you off.
~Anonymous
I'm 55 years old. I've lived through plenty of heartbreak and betrayal. I'm currently living in a political climate in which it's more likely that leaders are lying than telling the truth. I operate in a profession that is mistrusted and cast as "enemy of the people" though I don't know a single journalist colleague who isn't committed to truth-telling.
I struggle to understand how people lie. I just don't get it, how to look someone in the face – or straight into a camera – and unleash a whopper. Or even a white lie.
I often hear women say that it wasn't so much the extramarital sex they struggle with post-infidelity but the lying. (We're not crazy about the extramarital sex, for the record.) That our partners could lie to us turns out world upside down. It makes us doubt everything and everyone. It makes us doubt reality. It is gaslighting and can take years for us to recover from.
My husband was a consummate liar, though I wouldn't have framed it that way back when we were first building a life together. He told "white lies". Harmless right? H'mmm...
For instance, we moved in together after months of lugging our stuff back and forth to each other's apartments and realizing that we were paying rent in one of the most expensive cities in the world on two apartments but essentially living in one. We were engaged so...made sense to move in and get rid of one of the apartments. But then my husband insisted I keep mine (which was the cheaper one) along with continuing to pay for my phone (pre-cell phone). He told me it would upset his mother too much. That she was "traditional" and that he wanted to "respect that". I went along with it even as I thought it was nuts. I even thought it was mildly quaint that he respected her traditional sensibilities so much. Except...
Except it was a lie. I wasn't living in my apartment. I wasn't answering my phone. I was somewhere else. With him.
But, I ignored my discomfort. I prioritized what I believed was HER comfort over my own desire to live honestly.
Years later, after I discovered that my husband hadn't just been lying to his mother but to ME for YEARS, I realized that he had given me important information and that I had overlooked it.
He had shown me that he would easily lie rather than live honestly. That lying was a way not of respecting someone else's views but of making them complicit in the lie. That lying was about HIS comfort, his desire to avoid others' judgement.
I should have known.
But, as the saying goes, when we know better, we do better.
And when I knew better, I not only insisted on total honesty from my husband, I demanded it from myself.
No more, "I'm sorry, I'm busy that day" when the truth was that I didn't want to volunteer at the pizza lunch.
No more, white lies, no more "sparing others' feelings, no more lying to avoid conflict.
And no more lying to myself.
It's easier said than done, of course. And I haven't become some sort of monster who tells people that I hate their haircuts, or that their kids are monsters, or that the meal they lovingly made tastes horrible.
But I have bit my tongue when I'm tempted to lie to get out of something I don't want to do and instead left it as simply, "No," even if I was squirming with discomfort. (As my therapist used to remind me, "No" is a complete sentence.)
I have told friends some uncomfortable truths and also heard some. I was able to appreciate others' ability to be honest with me.
Being honest has made me braver. My friendships have easily survived some difficult conversations. Other friendships withered because I realized they were rooted less in genuine caring than in convenience.
Honesty is liberating. Not at first, perhaps. At first, it's squirmy. And sometimes infuriating. And often painful.
But there is no other healthy way to live than within relationships that demand and dispense honesty. Anyone telling you otherwise is asking you to participate in a charade. And is prioritizing their own comfort over anything else.
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- Separating and Divorcing, Page 10
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- MORE Stupid S#*t Cheaters Say
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This is perfect. Thank you. I struggle with the magnitude of my husband’s lies. But, a lie is a lie and as we continually tell them it gets so easy to justify them that we become numb to the fact that we are doing anything wrong. When thinking of my husband’s cheating DECADE, (ugh, so hard to type that) it helps me to think of my own shortcomings, lies included. I mean, he was the master and my sins weren’t on the same playing field, but maybe I am the lucky one. I was equipped with a stronger sense of self, moral compass, and integrity. We all have to own the ugly parts of our humanity. I would choose mine over his any day. And, we all have to commit to improving.
ReplyDeleteI remember that same feeling -- that no matter how awful it felt being me during those days, it was still preferable to being him.
DeleteAnd yes, one of the insights I gained from healing from this was to be more clear-eyed about my own shortcomings. Not in a judgemental way but rather to do an accounting and figure out how my own stuff was getting in the way of being who I wanted to be in the world and creating what I wanted. I had to own my willingness to overlook his dishonesty, to admit to my own cowardice in avoiding conflict, etc.
I’m struggling so much right now. Although I was lied to of course throughout the betrayal and even when discovered I was lied to over and over and piece by piece the truth came out which has caused betrayal trauma and I have many PTSD symptoms 😔. Now it’s been 10 months since the last of the information has come to light and I’m always thinking there’s more, what else don’t I know? He says at this point no more bombs, no more information, he says I know everything. Ok so here’s the problem. He has slightly changed things in the story for example: I sext her once before I retired then sometime again after I retired... given the affair started right before he retired and went on for 2 and a half years. (So I realize much sexting took place in the 2 and a half years and very much right before I caught him.) another time talking about it he said, we sext a few times before I retired then again sometime after I retired... so which is it? Once before or a few times?? He says, I don’t remember I think once but maybe a couple or so ??? How do I trust someone who’s lied and now changes details he’s told me? This has now become a thing to the point where one time he said she had on a black dress then later said white... what? And just today I asked if he took pictures of himself in the shower and he said, not of myself but I did text her I’m about to take a shower and took a picture of the shower, she didn’t reply so I just took a shower. Then I said how can you remember this so clearly and other things you don’t? Before I know it he’s back pedaling saying maybe I didn’t even text a picture of the shower and thought about it I don’t remember. I CANT take it anymore!!! He lived it he remembers but I feel like to sugar coat stuff he changes his story constantly. He says that’s not what he’s doing he’s trying to answer my questions. I realize he’s not revealing new information but he’s always changing what exactly happened, I don’t understand why since he did much worse than sext so why lie?
ReplyDeleteKarmaN,
DeleteI remember how crucial those details seemed to me. I would badger him until he answered and then, like a courtroom lawyer, challenge him on every single detail, triumphant if I could point out where he'd misspoke, or lied, or told conflicting stories.
But here's the thing, KarmaN, I don't remember those details now. Those details that I fought SO HARD to get are completely foggy to me. And here's another thing: They don't matter. Whether he sexted her once or twice? Doesn't matter. Whether her dress was black or white and black AND white? Doesn't matter.
I understand the impulse to know. It's a way of trying to regain control of a situation that feels completely out of our control.
But none of that matters.
What does matter is this: What is he doing to fix himself? And perhaps, more importantly, what are YOU doing to heal? I don't doubt that you have PTSD from this. A whole lot of us do. And I actually believe your husband when he says he doesn't remember. Maybe not for every single detail but for a lot of them. It's not uncommon for these guys to sort of compartmentalize -- to lock away the affair to avoid the moral discomfort. But, clearly, he was a liar. So what is he doing to learn how to NOT be one.
And that's what I'm urging you to do now. It seems you've chosen to stay with him. And it seems you've already acquired the broad strokes of the affair -- what happened, roughly when and how long it went on. The rest, honestly, matters less than you think it does. Because it doesn't give you back control. It never will. He cheated and there's no undoing that.
But, if you're going to rebuild your marriage and remain sane while doing so, you're going to need to assess what's happening right now -- is he committed to doing the work necessary and are you? -- and begin imagining your future together and what that looks like, which means you setting clear boundaries to keep yourself emotionally safe. IE. Absolutely no lying and an immediate confession if he so much as lies about what he had for lunch. He needs to unlearn a whole lot of unhealthy behaviour. And you need to learn how to trust yourself and, to a lesser extent, him.
You say you don't understand why he lies: It's likely something he's been doing his whole life, minimizing, lying, whatever. To avoid conflict, to keep the peace, to make himself look better. He probably doesn't realize he's doing it half the time. But it's on him to UNlearn that stuff in order to have a healthy marriage.
Oh Elle, you are wonderful. I needed this message so very much right now. Thank you for this. I’m fighting my own tug of war needing to know all the details and seeing his hard work and change right now. I’m torn between being vulnerable and being in control. You have truly blessed me today with your wisdom and words. I know I need to start living and moving forward for both our sakes. I’m finding that my need to know every little thing and his confusion has become an endless game of a dog chasing its own tail with no progress. Thank you a million times.... thank you.
DeleteKarmaN,
DeleteYou're welcome. And believe me...I was there. Right where you are. And the only way out is for you to accept that there are things you will never know...and that, ultimately, they don't matter. What DOES matter is who is now and who he is becoming. And you are NEVER obliged to give him a second chance. "My heartbreak, my rules" is the tagline of this site. But, if you want to rebuild your marriage, at a certain point, you have to move on from that game of, as you perfectly put it, a dog chasing his own tail.
I think its also important to point out some things you may not want to know every detail and you cant unhear what your told or unsee what you find. I was like a 24/7 detective so desperately wanting all the pieces of the story to make a timeline an understanding some sense of the shit show and some things i asked he didnt recall or answer and others he did and some thinks i asked and was told a point blank reply or I dug deep for and found i wish i could go back and not ... some helped me feel a sense of knowing other knowns only tortured my already hallowed heart . Those first few months its all i could think about . Ive been where u are ...some days i still am there ...but almost 5 years out it no longer consumes me. On days it does self care a work out, a pedicure pretty toes help or sit idle and just breath.
DeleteI continue to learn so much from this blog!
ReplyDeleteI totally get where your coming from and I too am struggling to get through the lies. I've explained to my serial narcissistic cheating husband that my questions are NOT being asked based on content. Let's face it.....the pain of him putting his penis outside this marriage wasn't being multiple with every infedility. The pain of continually being lied too about facts, gaslight ed etc....that pain???? Has grown beyond measure and I'm now at a place where not only do I feel I can never believe him, I'm questioning my entire life, everyone in it and our marriage. Everything feels like ONE big lie. B.T.W. my husband has cheated most of our 39 yrs of marriage with prostitutes.
ReplyDeleteHi Anon (Jan 14, 2020 12:11pm)
Delete...and I get where you are coming from. My ex narcissistic husband was a serial liar and cheater.
I too questioned every business trip he went on, how many times he really was at "the gym", or at a "work meeting".
When he was supposed to be working on our marriage, as I was desparate for our marriage to work for us, me and our kids, he was all lies. He said to me many times and at counseling, "I don't know if we can keep going as you can't get over it"
Fact - He was still in contact with his whore, and others, which I found out about. He was not prepared to let go of any of his narc supplies and as I said back "how can I work with you on this when you are still in contact with your whores and lying to me".
Fact - he didn't want responsibilities of marriage life and children, and despite being in a very senior position, not only did I have to deal with emotional abuse, but also financial abuse which has devastated me and the kids.
The pain of all his bullshit lies from him and the support his parents gave him also crippled me for a while, until I realised this is all on him and them. Extremely toxic people and I did nothing wrong. And whilst I question our entire marriage and our relationship, I know that's on him and his lies.
I am extemely happy without him now, as tough as it is financially, being fee from the shit he was is liberating in itself. Especially as I hear from the kids he treats the new skank the same. Oh well. She wanted him so bad she was willing to split up a family for it - she can have him as when people get to know him, they realise he's not that special.
Anon. Do you have kids? Who knows about this? Are you in counseling? Have you any hobbies/interests for you?
As I advise anyone going through betrayal us women must have a back up plan for separation/divorce. Emotional support from trusted family and friends,and if you aren't financially independent, start to squirell away money.
Try to remember, you have lived your marriage with truth and integrity. No One's marriage is 100% perfect but you did nothing to deserve this or to damage your marriage - it's all on him.
Thinking of you
Hugs
Gabby xo
Thank you Gabby for your kind words. Yes I have 2 adult children. Finances wouldn't be a major issue for me although it would be a major lifestyle change. That being said.... I've always been frugal and very non-materialistic. We both are in individual and marriage counseling. I do feel to some degree he is trying to change. I keep trying to remind myself that I'm only 5 months out from this recent dday but, I'm so full of immense pain, anger and confusion from the lies at the beginning. (He claims he's given full disclosure now) I'm just so stuck on the damage from the lies, not that the truths were comforting but I feel like maybe I could have moved quicker in my healing. I've decided to stay currently because I know I need to get myself right before I make any decisions. Sometimes however I feel by staying....am I clouding up my confusion even more? It's like a roller coaster ride through a nightmare and no matter how hard I try to stop it....I cant. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who choose to stay whilst doing their own personal healing. Did that help/ make it worse for you?
DeleteI have been longing to have emotional and financiall abuse recognised. Here's a start.
ReplyDeleteWe just need world wide the courts to understand this and support us women.
https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/idaho-updates-domestic-violence-definition-to-include-emotional-psychological-abuse/article_8b86a1a1-13f8-5b12-91e2-17b4fc66f431.html
Hugs
Gabby xo