Ah I feel like it is getting there. I haven't needed to check in here for awhile, which I am hoping that is a good sign. Sometimes I still worry. Ok I still worry everyday. BUT it isn't the all encompassing, drowning, coldness seeping from every pore of your body worry. I still keep myself super busy with charity, my church (I started a youth group) go out once in awhile with friends or family and laugh a lot more than I did 2 years ago. December will be 2 years for me.... I wouldn't be where I am if my H hadn't turned over a completely (for the most part) new leaf. Thank God for miracles right?? Hope is real. Hold onto it because even though the past can't be undone, you can heal.
TwinsTwice, That's how it happens. You notice that you don't worry quite so much. You notice that you laugh more. Life incrementally gets better. We never forget this chapter but it doesn't consume us. It becomes something that happened. We carry the wisdom gained with us, like a secret in our pocket.
Hi Anonymous, I'm afraid I wouldn't be much help with that (which is why I haven't blogged so much about it). I defer to Phoenix, who is dealing with exactly that. There are others on this site too who have had to deal with that -- a woman years ago who remained married to her husband and had sometimes custody of the baby. I will post something today to invite comments but...you could also order my book, which has the brilliant Phoenix weighing in how she has managed to deal with her ex-husband's son with the OW, and with her children's relationship to their half-brother.
A marriage is a secret. A secret shared between 2 people. Hopes, dreams, fears, intimacy, struggles. One giant secret. We allow people brief glimpses around the edges only. An affair turns the secret public. The adulterous share their marital secret. Then starts another secret with another person not their spouse. The wife sees the secret no more. It's a shattering of all the bonds held by 3 people within their secret. The secret that once was never returns. If one is lucky, a form of a new secret begins. But it is important to note it doesn't renew the original secret. All that was about it has faded away. The new one is therefore incomplete and tentative.
Grieve for the secret once shared between 2 people, never to be shared again. For what once was and will never be again. All you can do is to try and start that new secret and create new everything. Struggles, intimacy, memories..... It becomes a new secret. At first it is cope. Then tolerate. Then real hope. The difficulty in all this is loss of genuine trust. I think maybe Elle has been eating around the edges of this, she is compassionate, kind, loving. She can also be very direct. I love both parts of her. But I will come out and blog it. Have hope only if the adulterous is doing the hard work to find out the "why". Have hope if you see actions that indicate a change. Have hope if you can see genuine remorse/regret. Have hope if he changes into the husband you always thought he could be. If he doesn't then then check your "real meter". These are indicators of someone who is so sorry they open up, finally as you can't get enough of this openness. In my case, recovery takes more from the adulterous to make it work than the betrayed if I were balancing the scales. It does take 5 years. Remember you didn't do anything wrong so the scales should be tipped more on his side. He is carrying tons of more shit. Only he can get rid of it, you can't. Again, only have hope if he drops her like a rock, gives you all the passwords, responds to you when needed, picks up his dirty clothes, opens up to you and asks everyday - what do you need today ? Just tell me, I'll do it. That will keep the hope sustained until you get your feet on the ground.
LLP, I love your post!!! So well written. And so easy to relate to. I am at 3 1/2 years. It took me a while to figure out what you have mentioned here. Early on I thought I was the one with the issues, I had been wronged, I was so hurt, I will never get over this etc. After the two year mark and I personally began to heal and understand betrayal more it hit me. He owned it 100% and has made huge transformations in all aspects of his life. It was an ah ha moment for me when I realized this is way harder for him. I know this is something he will never get over. I look at it as he not only betrayed me, our kids and our family but first an foremost he betrayed himself. He let himself down in the worst way. He had all of the knowledge and resources to not do what he did too. He was basically a horrible person and he knew it. I know this will stick with him and he says he thinks about what he did every day. There is some comfort that even though he has moved forward and changed he does not sweep it under the rug. And your right I did nothing wrong. I actually did everything right. His words and actions have allowed me to remain hopeful. I am fortunate that on dday he woke up and literally was a changed person moving forward. Of course there have been bumps. None related to betrayal. But how he was living his entire life.
Just last night we were talking about some things that had come up and triggered me and been upsetting. He was not defensive but was remorseful. He told me I can be angry at him. It is all his fault. I so appreciated that he allowed me to feel the way I do and not gaslight or blame shift etc. One thing he said to me is that he hates that it happened but all he can do is be glad it served as his wake up call. He has never been happier and wants to die being married to me. It is still confusing at times but I am trying to listen to his feelings too. I can respect what he feels and says when he is working so hard just like I am.
LLP and Hopeful30, I love what you both wrote. My husband often talks about "rebuilding" and I cringe inside. It is hard for me to even think about rebuilding since he started cheating in 1981 and here we are with him "sober" since D-day in June 2015. I use to believe that I stayed for all the wrong reasons and someone on another blog wrote, "there are no wrong or right reasons, there are just reasons for staying" and she heard that from Carol the Coach whom I've since looked up and listened to. I felt an enormous burden lift off my shoulders when I removed that judgemental word "wrong" in front of reasons. I stayed because I had reasons and I continue to stay because the original reasons have grown to include my husband continuing to prove to me that his is living his life with integrity and mindfulness now. I believe that his brush with HIV scared the crap out of him and served as both rock bottom and a wake up call that fantasy, risk, porn, prostitutes and debauchery were stupid and immature choices on a regular basis. I still hate that he did all that he did but like your husband Hopeful30, mine also says he is reminded every day of what he did and also of how much better his life is now with me. I don't recall if someone on this blog mentioned the Netflix show Grace and Frankie but we watched the first two episodes several days ago and neither of us could talk or process it until yesterday. It could be a big trigger for everyone here but honestly, the dialogue in the first two episodes could have been taken from my mouth in the first two years. My husband talked to me about it yesterday and said, "both of those women said everything you said about our marriage and life" and I am so sorry. We were able to talk without me wanting/trying to eviscerate him and last night we watched two more episodes. I am laughing a bit and feeling sad a bit but so far I plan to continue watching. At the end of the night as we lay in bed I told him, "today feels like the first time since all this happened that we were able to process/talk about some hard things without falling apart". Progress comes in baby steps.
Oh, and we have a healthy and very tiny new baby girl in our family who came a bit early weighing just under 6 pounds. I'm in love all over again.
HOPEFULL 30 your story will give others hope, so simple, so direct and heartfelt. Your story helps those with little hope right now.
Selkie, you are so right. There are some women who post, who I want to say wake up, he is not going to change as much as you want. Get out now. Get out fast. You are holding onto nothing. You can only hope so long then there is no hope left. I know some women who say - I can't stand this any longer, I'm leaving that is when it is right for them to leave.
What is hard when trying to help is not to be judgmental. Here are my facts. H had 3 year affair, used me, didn't help out, treated the pyscho bitch kindergarten teacher better than me including our entire married life. He gave me Herpes. Now who in their right mind wouldn't say - Girlfriend you better leave right now. I just want to see ass and elbows. Even with all that we worked it out. So we tip toe around the stay or go question. Because we know someone wants us to tell them what to do when we really can't. Hope is a seesaw.
Beach Girl - Congratulations on your new grand baby! I'm sorry she had an early start on life but hopefully all is right in the world for her!
Hopeful 30 - I so appreciate you continuing to share. Every time I read your comments I find myself breathing a little easier. You seem to speak directly to my soul.
LLP - you are correct. There are some of us who truly just wishes someone, anyone, could tell us what the right thing to do is. And I'm quite certain that at points in the last 9 months there were many who wanted to shout to me "just get out" after all of the shit that my WH put me through during my pregnancy.
But the story that I was telling myself - it was jaded. I was so sure of who he was ... and what I wanted more than anything for him to prove me right. I saw him as nothing but a heartless bastard who stayed simply because the OW wouldn’t leave her husband. I felt like this had all become a game to him – that he simply wanted to see how much he could get away with and for how long. I truly believed he was out to destroy me at any cost.
But I'm like Hopeful 30 I'm afraid. The more I try to heal myself ... to force myself to see him (and myself for that matter) I see that what I had hoped for in the beginning (to have a new marriage that had meaning) is happening. He's becoming that husband I desperately wanted. He's becoming more transparent – without me demanding it. He's shouldering a shit load of shame and sadness about himself. He's equally as lost as I am. But he's working on being genuine ... honest ... loving ... and pushing himself out of his comfort zone ... for ME.
I don't know what the future holds or if I’ll ever stop looking for him “to prove me right”. I don't know and that's ok. Right now - in this moment - I'm ok. And I know that with each passing second I can only get better.
The absolute best part of this site is when all of you warriors open your hearts wide and spill your truth. There is no single better way to help each other heal than this. And Beach Girl --congratulations. That is such wonderful news. Love to you and your new grand baby and her parents.
Kimberly it could be that your h was still in affair fog during the awful time of your pregnancy! I’m glad he’s finally pulling his head out of his ass!
Kimberly this is all so complicated and overwhelming. I know for me I wanted it all figured out, taken care of. It is hard. I love that you are sharing here. I know for me it has been so helpful. This recovery process is an evolution. Also on the newest post I wrote about how at certain point I realized it will always be part of our life and marriage. And that will be if we are together or apart. That was hard at first. I am type a person and wanted to take care of this. Come up with a plan and get through the to do list. Well over 3 1/2 years later it is something that comes up for various reasons at various times. I am thankful we can address it and bring it up. Now it is more in a supportive and understanding way. So glad you are here sharing your story.
Beach Girl Congratulations!! So excited for you and your family.
My secret sisterhood no other blog compares to Elle or supports like the members of the BWC i happened to swipe up on ghe above when i was viewing something in another app .. damn commerical advertisement i thought ok but the title .. so i swiped and then i cried. Im not familiar with the blog i provided link too ... elle post as you see fit but the swipe up read had me in tears and i cried and thought me too and the one line i never pondered or before now could even digest without spiting nails ... i stayed because him walking out the door could possibly hurt more then his betrayal? Huh in the early days this would have made me balls to the wall mad. Enraged even but today over 3 years its going to be my thought fir the day to get more in depth with because marriage can survive with work and damn right im worth it! Just thought id share and i think im even going yo mention to my husband. This story moved me today and might be another good dig in thoughts to continue to try and move past the shot storm. Positive thoughts to all my warrior princesses i continue to chant wounded not broken!
I posted this on Twitter. I think she put it pretty well. I wrote on today's post something that I've said before but perhaps not so clearly: It is only when we believe ourselves worthy of leaving that we can truly choose to stay.
That's wonderfully put. The choice to stay was not mine in the beginning. Now it is mine and I can be proud of it (even if that is so very hard most days). I want to be proud of my marriage and my family.
There is so much truth in that saying Elle, thank you for the reminder.. Beach girl big congrats to you and your family on the arrival on your grand baby. Babies bring so much happiness and light to a family, lots of love x
Ah I feel like it is getting there. I haven't needed to check in here for awhile, which I am hoping that is a good sign. Sometimes I still worry. Ok I still worry everyday. BUT it isn't the all encompassing, drowning, coldness seeping from every pore of your body worry. I still keep myself super busy with charity, my church (I started a youth group) go out once in awhile with friends or family and laugh a lot more than I did 2 years ago. December will be 2 years for me.... I wouldn't be where I am if my H hadn't turned over a completely (for the most part) new leaf. Thank God for miracles right?? Hope is real. Hold onto it because even though the past can't be undone, you can heal.
ReplyDeleteTwinsTwice,
DeleteThat's how it happens. You notice that you don't worry quite so much. You notice that you laugh more. Life incrementally gets better. We never forget this chapter but it doesn't consume us. It becomes something that happened. We carry the wisdom gained with us, like a secret in our pocket.
Elle, how do I get in touch with you? I have a situation that does not seem covered n the blog: an alleged baby out of the affair.
DeleteHi Anonymous, I'm afraid I wouldn't be much help with that (which is why I haven't blogged so much about it). I defer to Phoenix, who is dealing with exactly that. There are others on this site too who have had to deal with that -- a woman years ago who remained married to her husband and had sometimes custody of the baby. I will post something today to invite comments but...you could also order my book, which has the brilliant Phoenix weighing in how she has managed to deal with her ex-husband's son with the OW, and with her children's relationship to their half-brother.
DeleteA marriage is a secret. A secret shared between 2 people. Hopes, dreams, fears, intimacy, struggles. One giant secret. We allow people brief glimpses around the edges only. An affair turns the secret public. The adulterous share their marital secret. Then starts another secret with another person not their spouse. The wife sees the secret no more. It's a shattering of all the bonds held by 3 people within their secret. The secret that once was never returns. If one is lucky, a form of a new secret begins. But it is important to note it doesn't renew the original secret. All that was about it has faded away. The new one is therefore incomplete and tentative.
ReplyDeleteGrieve for the secret once shared between 2 people, never to be shared again. For what once was and will never be again. All you can do is to try and start that new secret and create new everything. Struggles, intimacy, memories.....
It becomes a new secret. At first it is cope. Then tolerate. Then real hope. The difficulty in all this is loss of genuine trust. I think maybe Elle has been eating around the edges of this, she is compassionate, kind, loving. She can also be very direct. I love both parts of her. But I will come out and blog it. Have hope only if the adulterous is doing the hard work to find out the "why". Have hope if you see actions that indicate a change. Have hope if you can see genuine remorse/regret. Have hope if he changes into the husband you always thought he could be. If he doesn't then then check your "real meter". These are indicators of someone who is so sorry they open up, finally as you can't get enough of this openness. In my case, recovery takes more from the adulterous to make it work than the betrayed if I were balancing the scales. It does take 5 years. Remember you didn't do anything wrong so the scales should be tipped more on his side. He is carrying tons of more shit. Only he can get rid of it, you can't. Again, only have hope if he drops her like a rock, gives you all the passwords, responds to you when needed, picks up his dirty clothes, opens up to you and asks everyday - what do you need today ? Just tell me, I'll do it. That will keep the hope sustained until you get your feet on the ground.
LLP, I love your post!!! So well written. And so easy to relate to. I am at 3 1/2 years. It took me a while to figure out what you have mentioned here. Early on I thought I was the one with the issues, I had been wronged, I was so hurt, I will never get over this etc. After the two year mark and I personally began to heal and understand betrayal more it hit me. He owned it 100% and has made huge transformations in all aspects of his life. It was an ah ha moment for me when I realized this is way harder for him. I know this is something he will never get over. I look at it as he not only betrayed me, our kids and our family but first an foremost he betrayed himself. He let himself down in the worst way. He had all of the knowledge and resources to not do what he did too. He was basically a horrible person and he knew it. I know this will stick with him and he says he thinks about what he did every day. There is some comfort that even though he has moved forward and changed he does not sweep it under the rug. And your right I did nothing wrong. I actually did everything right. His words and actions have allowed me to remain hopeful. I am fortunate that on dday he woke up and literally was a changed person moving forward. Of course there have been bumps. None related to betrayal. But how he was living his entire life.
DeleteJust last night we were talking about some things that had come up and triggered me and been upsetting. He was not defensive but was remorseful. He told me I can be angry at him. It is all his fault. I so appreciated that he allowed me to feel the way I do and not gaslight or blame shift etc. One thing he said to me is that he hates that it happened but all he can do is be glad it served as his wake up call. He has never been happier and wants to die being married to me. It is still confusing at times but I am trying to listen to his feelings too. I can respect what he feels and says when he is working so hard just like I am.
Yes, well said, LLP! Hope is precious, but sometimes it can become a security blanket instead of a valiant battle flag.
DeleteLLP and Hopeful30, I love what you both wrote. My husband often talks about "rebuilding" and I cringe inside. It is hard for me to even think about rebuilding since he started cheating in 1981 and here we are with him "sober" since D-day in June 2015. I use to believe that I stayed for all the wrong reasons and someone on another blog wrote, "there are no wrong or right reasons, there are just reasons for staying" and she heard that from Carol the Coach whom I've since looked up and listened to. I felt an enormous burden lift off my shoulders when I removed that judgemental word "wrong" in front of reasons. I stayed because I had reasons and I continue to stay because the original reasons have grown to include my husband continuing to prove to me that his is living his life with integrity and mindfulness now. I believe that his brush with HIV scared the crap out of him and served as both rock bottom and a wake up call that fantasy, risk, porn, prostitutes and debauchery were stupid and immature choices on a regular basis. I still hate that he did all that he did but like your husband Hopeful30, mine also says he is reminded every day of what he did and also of how much better his life is now with me. I don't recall if someone on this blog mentioned the Netflix show Grace and Frankie but we watched the first two episodes several days ago and neither of us could talk or process it until yesterday. It could be a big trigger for everyone here but honestly, the dialogue in the first two episodes could have been taken from my mouth in the first two years. My husband talked to me about it yesterday and said, "both of those women said everything you said about our marriage and life" and I am so sorry. We were able to talk without me wanting/trying to eviscerate him and last night we watched two more episodes. I am laughing a bit and feeling sad a bit but so far I plan to continue watching. At the end of the night as we lay in bed I told him, "today feels like the first time since all this happened that we were able to process/talk about some hard things without falling apart". Progress comes in baby steps.
DeleteOh, and we have a healthy and very tiny new baby girl in our family who came a bit early weighing just under 6 pounds. I'm in love all over again.
Beach Girl
DeleteCongratulations on your new baby Grand daughter. Enjoy those precious moments.
Hugs
Gabby xo
HOPEFULL 30 your story will give others hope, so simple, so direct and heartfelt. Your story helps those with little hope right now.
DeleteSelkie, you are so right. There are some women who post, who I want to say wake up, he is not going to change as much as you want. Get out now. Get out fast. You are holding onto nothing. You can only hope so long then there is no hope left. I know some women who say - I can't stand this any longer, I'm leaving that is when it is right for them to leave.
What is hard when trying to help is not to be judgmental. Here are my facts. H had 3 year affair, used me, didn't help out, treated the pyscho bitch kindergarten teacher better than me including our entire married life. He gave me Herpes. Now who in their right mind wouldn't say - Girlfriend you better leave right now. I just want to see ass and elbows. Even with all that we worked it out. So we tip toe around the stay or go question. Because we know someone wants us to tell them what to do when we really can't. Hope is a seesaw.
Beach Girl - Congratulations on your new grand baby! I'm sorry she had an early start on life but hopefully all is right in the world for her!
DeleteHopeful 30 - I so appreciate you continuing to share. Every time I read your comments I find myself breathing a little easier. You seem to speak directly to my soul.
LLP - you are correct. There are some of us who truly just wishes someone, anyone, could tell us what the right thing to do is. And I'm quite certain that at points in the last 9 months there were many who wanted to shout to me "just get out" after all of the shit that my WH put me through during my pregnancy.
But the story that I was telling myself - it was jaded. I was so sure of who he was ... and what I wanted more than anything for him to prove me right. I saw him as nothing but a heartless bastard who stayed simply because the OW wouldn’t leave her husband. I felt like this had all become a game to him – that he simply wanted to see how much he could get away with and for how long. I truly believed he was out to destroy me at any cost.
But I'm like Hopeful 30 I'm afraid. The more I try to heal myself ... to force myself to see him (and myself for that matter) I see that what I had hoped for in the beginning (to have a new marriage that had meaning) is happening. He's becoming that husband I desperately wanted. He's becoming more transparent – without me demanding it. He's shouldering a shit load of shame and sadness about himself. He's equally as lost as I am. But he's working on being genuine ... honest ... loving ... and pushing himself out of his comfort zone ... for ME.
I don't know what the future holds or if I’ll ever stop looking for him “to prove me right”. I don't know and that's ok. Right now - in this moment - I'm ok. And I know that with each passing second I can only get better.
The absolute best part of this site is when all of you warriors open your hearts wide and spill your truth. There is no single better way to help each other heal than this.
DeleteAnd Beach Girl --congratulations. That is such wonderful news. Love to you and your new grand baby and her parents.
Beach girl I’m so happy to hear healthy all around! Hugs and kisses to your family at this wonderful time!
DeleteKimberly it could be that your h was still in affair fog during the awful time of your pregnancy! I’m glad he’s finally pulling his head out of his ass!
DeleteKimberly this is all so complicated and overwhelming. I know for me I wanted it all figured out, taken care of. It is hard. I love that you are sharing here. I know for me it has been so helpful. This recovery process is an evolution. Also on the newest post I wrote about how at certain point I realized it will always be part of our life and marriage. And that will be if we are together or apart. That was hard at first. I am type a person and wanted to take care of this. Come up with a plan and get through the to do list. Well over 3 1/2 years later it is something that comes up for various reasons at various times. I am thankful we can address it and bring it up. Now it is more in a supportive and understanding way. So glad you are here sharing your story.
DeleteBeach Girl Congratulations!! So excited for you and your family.
https://www.scarymommy.com/infidelity-husband-had-affair
ReplyDeleteMy secret sisterhood no other blog compares to Elle or supports like the members of the BWC i happened to swipe up on ghe above when i was viewing something in another app
.. damn commerical advertisement i thought ok but the title .. so i swiped and then i cried. Im not familiar with the blog i provided link too ... elle post as you see fit but the swipe up read had me in tears and i cried and thought me too and the one line i never pondered or before now could even digest without spiting nails ... i stayed because him walking out the door could possibly hurt more then his betrayal? Huh in the early days this would have made me balls to the wall mad. Enraged even but today over 3 years its going to be my thought fir the day to get more in depth with because marriage can survive with work and damn right im worth it! Just thought id share and i think im even going yo mention to my husband. This story moved me today and might be another good dig in thoughts to continue to try and move past the shot storm. Positive thoughts to all my warrior princesses i continue to chant wounded not broken!
I posted this on Twitter. I think she put it pretty well. I wrote on today's post something that I've said before but perhaps not so clearly: It is only when we believe ourselves worthy of leaving that we can truly choose to stay.
DeleteThat's wonderfully put. The choice to stay was not mine in the beginning. Now it is mine and I can be proud of it (even if that is so very hard most days). I want to be proud of my marriage and my family.
DeleteThere is so much truth in that saying Elle, thank you for the reminder..
ReplyDeleteBeach girl big congrats to you and your family on the arrival on your grand baby. Babies bring so much happiness and light to a family, lots of love x