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| Yeah, that's right. Just stand there. |
A participation trophy is a trophy given usually to kids who participate in something but do not finish in first, second or third place. Are giving your husband a participation trophy?
Let’s take a cheater: he lies, hides info, spends money on another woman, ignores his wife and kids. He may have developed ways to avoid helping around the house, including working on himself to save his marriage. He lacks empathy towards you.
He criticizes you. He believes he is 100% right.
He uses you to serve his needs without showing any appreciation.
He clams up. He leaves the room. If he says something to hurt you, it is your fault. He says you are over-reacting. He tries to control you by making you feel you have become unhinged.
He hides cruel remarks by saying it was just a joke. Or, he says, "I never said that, you are imaging things."
What do far too many of us do? We give him a participation trophy for just showing up, not leaving us, taking care of us financially and not seeing the OW. He feels entitled, simply because he has stuck around. As nurturing women, we often carry the load of recovery. We hand out those participation trophies.
It's time to stop. It's time to make clear that we are no longer going to pull their weight as well as ours trying to heal a marriage. It's time to make it clear, calmly and firmly, that the rules have changed. He will test you.
"I didn’t say I wouldn’t talk to her at work." "You never said I had to do that." "I didn’t see her trying to text me." Your bullshit meter will be going off.
But instead of asking why he's not supporting you in my healing and marriage, tell him your expectations about recovery. Don’t think you are doing something wrong. You’re not. I read all the time on this blog – "he just doesn’t act like he wants to make our marriage work." It isn’t because he doesn’t love you. It isn’t because you don’t exercise. It isn’t because you are too exhausted to wear anything else but sweatclothes.
It is because you have not told him this is not acceptable. It is hard and it is going to get harder when he pushes back. He likes the way things are. His system works for him, so he is not going to be in any rush. He may not want to try hard because he expects you to give him a participation trophy. Giving him a participation trophy devalues your own efforts to heal.
It is going to take him awhile to learn his past ways of not participating is not going to win him any more trophies. DON’T FLINCH, don’t bug off, shrug off, scare off and don’t even reach in your mind for that participation trophy. Your willingness to speak up about what you will speak volumes for you. Every moment you wait is a moment you don’t get the love, attention, respect you deserve from him or someone else. Participation trophies are for children not grown men.
Love to you all.
LLP
Yes! yes! Yes!yes! Yes! Don't Flinch in your love and respect for yourself. I didn't end up with the situation that I hoped for but I am way happier than if I continued to give him the participation trophies he demands.
ReplyDelete🤗
DeleteI am new here and this is the first time I am commenting, but thank you for saying this, Elle. I was definitely giving the participation trophy for a few years. Until I realized that I couldnt call what he was doing as contributing to the marriage and family any more. Well, now he has left and there sure is no participation. But I'm sorry I didnt see it earlier.
ReplyDeleteMamawolf,
DeleteI'm glad you found us. And please remind yourself that "when we know better, we do better". You didn't know better. Now you do. Sounds like you shed a lot of dead weight. ;)
Hi. I’m new here and about 3 months since my world exploded. Of all the literature and blogs I have found online and in books, this is the only platform that I can relate to. I keep browsing through old posts and comments and feel closer and safer knowing I’m not alone.
ReplyDeleteIn my marriage of 16 years, the love of my life has been compulsively cheating on me for 4 years when traveling for work. He has been going to massage parlours for all the extra services and has slept with hookers, had a one night stand, spoken to pimps about the cost of a hooker in a city, got them to visit his room.. you name it. This is also during the course of me being pregnant with our second child. We have little kids under the age of 5.
He is now undergoing sex addiction counselling, working with an addiction group as well as showing remorse and every reason to make this work. As for me, I really don’t know? He says it was a fog, he had no idea how this would affect me, he thought he was smart and I’d never know and because he never had an emotional affair it wasn’t hurting me. Who went and gave him all these rules to my marriage, I have no idea. He suddenly feels an intense love for me.. again his words not mine. How does this happen. I am beyond baffled at his moral choices and how easily he threw me out of his life. And that he suddenly now wants this family, his kids and me. He never really thought the consequences through? I can understand the element of addiction here but it didn’t start with that. It started with the urge to cheat.. I just can’t believe he chose prostitutes. He has been addicted to porn for several years is what I am told and hence the escalation. I guess I’m just angry and absolutely confused about how a human being can fall in his own eyes so much. Oh and he was literally the best husband, son, son-in-law, father you could ever find. I have no questions but just felt good to share!
Natanangel, I'm glad you found us. Your words "feel closer and safer knowing I'm not alone" make my heart swell because that is exactly why i created this space. I needed that. We all need that.
DeleteSex addiction is confusing as hell for those of us who aren't addicts. I grew up with an alcoholic mother who became sober when I was 19 so I had a better understanding than most when I discovered my husband's sex addiction. (I had been so busy congratulations myself for not marrying an alcoholic that I was oblivious to the signs of sex addiction.) But it helped me to think of it in terms of my mother's addiction. She didn't love vodka more than me. She didn't enjoy waking up hungover and ashamed. She was an addict. And the hunger to numb her feelings was a powerful force that she didn't successfully resist. She tried. And then, feeling good, she'd have "just one drink". And it would begin again.
Sex addiction is no different in many ways. It's someone who can't manage their own negative feelings finding a way to transport themselves out of that pain, loneliness, fear, anxiety, whatever. Addicts lie. "Nobody's getting hurt." "I need this." "Lots of people do this." Etc. And shame is a huge piece of it, too. They are SO afraid of that shame that they distract themselves from it with the behaviour. NONE of this means you have to be some sort of Mother Theresa, all forgiving and accepting. Not at all. His behaviour has caused horrible pain, jeopardized your health and that of your kids. And he is responsible for that. He is responsible for making amends (a 12-step group will ensure that he does exactly that). But one of the hardest parts to wrap our minds around is that we weren't part of the equation. This had nothing to do with us, just like my mom pouring vodka into her coffee was never about her not loving me. It was about numbing pain and she believed her own lies that "nobody was getting hurt." Lots of addicts believe those lies until they're right over the cliff. Others get caught and are forced to look into the mirror sooner. They're the lucky ones, even as they're about to go through the shame and self-loathing of facing what they've done.
Your husband is doing the incredible hard work of acknowledging that his behaviour and his purported values don't line up. That he has hurt the most important people in his life. As much as it hurt to be me when I discovered my husband's sex addiction, I still wouldn't have wanted to be him.
There's nothing sexy or romantic about sex addiction. It's about screwed up people. It's about pain. It's about distraction.
Keep posting. As you've no doubt seen from reading on this site, the women here are amazing. You're among friends.
Well I’m sure most of us have been there done that but those of us willing to watch a man change his behavior and I mean really change...well I think if he can they need a second chance but I don’t mean it is easy or it’s a short amount of time...it is what you work together to rebuild if you think it’s worth saving...it’s the new rules you adopt as a couple...the rules he broke when he chose to cheat no matter how he chose to cheat...it’s a longer process than when you first dated and then married each other...every day is a struggle until you find a new normal but I don’t think the doubt ever goes completely away...he was always capable of doing the things he chose to do and he is still capable of falling down again but if he’s truly a changed man the likelihood of that decreases with time and dedication...love you Lynn less pain and Elle !
ReplyDeleteTheresa
Theresa-
DeleteI related with what you are saying here. It is SO hard to give the second chance and not harbor the resentment and hurt. I still struggle even after almost 5 years. Has he changed? Yes. Have I truly forgiven? Nope. In the very quiet of the night I still berate myself with thoughts of why didn't I just kick his ass out. I don't struggle too much with the thoughts if he will do it again, for me it is more thoughts on how can I love someone who did this to me? What does that say about me? I never thought of myself as weak but by not ending this marriage I wonder if I am. At my age (56) there are a lot of reasons to stay that are simply financial. I love him less and different now. Just trying to navigate through all this and hope that one day I will be grateful of my decision to stay. TBML
Same here. He said one of the reasons he cheated was because I didn't listen to him (and he loves to talk!) So now we're stuck in this house during quarantine with young kids. I chose to stay with him and so now I have to listen. My kind would often wander... do i really need to sit here and listen to this loser??? Why did I stay? Maybe when my kids are bigger I can be braver. Right now I feel like I'm acting. Like the wife who has forgiven and trying to forget. Truth is, sometimes I can really picture a happier life without him.
DeleteTo the first Anonymous,
DeleteYou do not still need to stay. It's not like you have a finite time period in which to leave following betrayal. You are allowed to work through this and feel relatively confident that he won't cheat again...and yet still feel as though the marriage isn't what you want. You don't owe him anything other than honesty and respect and integrity. And you're not offering any of that if you truly want to leave but aren't sharing that. Tell him how you feel. Have a candid discussion about what is and is not working for you. It's possible you can work this out but it's equally possible that this marriage, for you, is over and it's time to work out an amicable departure. But any deep meaningful relationship requires honesty -- about who we are, what we want, how we're feeling.
To the second Anonymous, The same holds true for you. Quarantine, of course, presents a unique challenge re. leaving but if you are genuinely unhappy, consider using this time to work out your exit plan. It sounds as though you feel as though you're being held hostage by him. He cheated, supposedly, because you don't listen to him (which, I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on that -- he cheated because he's told himself that he's entitled to some woman's undivided attention while he rambles on) so, in order to prevent him cheating again, you have to listen to him. That's just not how marriage works. Of course, we make compromises. We sometimes do things we don't want to do because it makes our spouse happy and making our spouse happy makes us happy. But that refers to the occasional fishing trip or golf game or dinner with his annoying brother. It does not refer to having to sit and listen constantly to someone who doesn't know when to shut up. You are not required to be his audience. That's not love, it's extortion.
DeleteAre you two in couples counselling at all? If he's a good man who you love, then it's possible this is something you can work out. Can you agree to an hour each evening, over a glass of wine, or while walking or whatever, to listen to him talk? In exchange, what would you like him to do for you? Resentment is poison for a relationship. You are not helping the relationship by subjecting yourself to this and then resenting him for it. Therapy might also help you empathize more with why he needs this and help him empathize with you about why it's so hard. Is it an extrovert/introvert thing? In any case, I don't think the problem is the talking necessarily, it's his insistence that you OWE him your attention. That's not a healthy approach. And it's generating resentment, not closeness.
Hi Elle, Thanks for this. I do need a deeper understanding of what's going on. Just cant understand how he could be attracted to the same Asian women we made fun of during our holidays...he literally walked into any dodgy looking massage place in EVERY country he travelled to and got himself served. And when I ask what he found attractive about these women he says it could literally have been anyone who was willing. Also the fact that Ive been living a complete lie for 4-5 years? He watched me give birth and held our son WHILE doing all of this.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet, Im considering forgiving him! Got super drunk last weekend and made out like crazy for the first time since I got to know...and now its all guilt and just the thought of giving that part of me to him even for just one night makes me nauseous. This is so much bigger than me and I'm not sure I can survive it. But he loves the kids so much......and wants to change.
I'll keep posting and reading through the wealth of information on here...thank you all for that!
Give yourself the time to digest all this. When you're not sure what's the best decision, then it's absolutely fine to wait. In fact, most experts recommend waiting at least six months to a year before making any major decisions. You want to respond to this from a place of clear intention, not just a reaction to pain.
DeleteNatanangel, You are in shock. No other word for it. Giving yourself time does not mean you are giving him YOUR time. It is your time to try to wrap your head around the death of your marriage. I waited a year and half to decided. I wanted to see if he changed. My therapist said, if he can continue to be this new man for 6 months then he can sustain this change. It is not usual to want to grab each other and hold on, so don't feel guilty. Go for an STD test this week. I can remember feeling dirty, ashamed, a fool, angry, raging. He set your house on fire and walked away. Give yourself time to see if he changes. You probably only have half information. First demand transparency, passwords, phone, computer access. Go through bank accounts - did he steal money from your family? You will consider staying one day and leaving the next, hating the sight of him. Elle is there a book on sexual addiction you could recommend? I'm seven years out and it can feel like yesterday. Look for actions of change, no words. You already had enough of lies. I'm so sorry your hurting, crying, not sleeping. I hurt for you. I hurt for your family and children. It is so sad. It took me 5-6 years to get over a 2.5 year affair with the same woman and vaginal herpes. He sounds like he is in a deep addition. One lady on here "Steam" thought she was in recovery and discovered a burner phone a year later, he was still seeing whores. One hour at a time. I didn't cook, wash dishes or take the garbage out for about 4 months. I screamed like I was being murdered. Laid out in the snow for hours. I locked the door and cried for hours. It is years of crazy behaviors. Do what YOU NEED to get through the day. You got this. First step is total transparency. Please stay in touch. You are not by yourself. These wonderful giving woman helped me out of hell several times.
DeleteGreat advice, LLP. The best book I read on sex addiction was by Patrick Carnes daughter, Stefanie Carnes (Patrick Carnes is one of the godfathers of sex addiction diagnoses/treatment). Here's the link to it: https://www.amazon.com/Ph-D-Stefanie-Carnes-Shattered-Paperback/dp/B01FODA4RQ/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=stefanie+carnes&qid=1587573123&sr=8-5
DeleteDitto to what LLP says. We have all been here and we want to help you get through this.
DeleteHi again, first Dday Jan 2014, supposed remorse, further slips in September 2014 with contacting the 0W, 2015 with porn, 2017 with lunch dates, for many years defensiveness, no empathy for triggers and pain. Discoveries 2002-2004 spent 5000 pounds on porn, 2015-2017 took out 5000 in overdrafts without saying, emptied 5000 from children's college fund without saying. When I drew strong boundaries after 2017 lunch dates he came forward with some of his own revelations (kissed ex girlfriend, porn sites, money owed.) 2018 did intense work with counsellor on porn, people pleasing, dalliances trying to uncover and work on underlying issues. But I have just found out that in Feb 2019 he went against my pain and agreement for transparency by answering (two) messages from his latest 2017 lunch date and never telling me. He continued to work on himself after that and we became close. I've already had feedback from Elle on this (thanks) about if I can accept he is changed since the incident last year. What I want advice on is - since his behaviour is very addictive (porn, inappropriate friendships and romances) should he be on some long term 12step programme? He has done a lot of Tara Brach stuff himself on shame etc and worked up to recently with his counsellor but he is no longer attending (had stopped in Feb). There are no assurances but what kind of work did other addictive husbands do and for how long? What should I be demanding in return for giving him yet another chance? Will there always be slip ups when the behaviour is so ingrained (though being worked on). What can you reasonably expect. He is very good in so many ways and we get on great but will this always be his Achilles heel? Can anyone with an addictive partner of any sort give guidance. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteFOH,
DeleteI'll weigh in first that YES, he should absolutely be doing a long-term 12-step program. My mother continued to go to AA for years after she'd stopped drinking (she'd had a few false stops) because, as she put it, it held her accountable. These people knew the signs, they didn't tolerate bullshit and they would call out anyone who wasn't "working the program". A sponsor would be an accountability buddy, essentially.
I'm sorry, FOH, for all you've dealt with. But yes, I did make attending a 12-step program for sex addicts an absolute requirement for my husband (his therapist, who specialized in sex addiction, made it a requirement too).
Cheating spouses and addicts cannot count on themselves for accountability. I echo what Elle said. 12-Step isn't perfect but my spouse couldn't have survived without it.
DeleteThanks LLP (and Elle for the book reco). I got us tested for STD’s within days of finding out. The panic and absolute shock on his face during the process was another thing! Let’s just say he had no idea about how std’s could spread through unprotected oral too!! Luckily the tests came out negative.
ReplyDeleteAs for passwords, bank info etc will you believe it when I say I had everything from day 1 of our marriage? I just thought he was too amazing a person to ever check. I never doubted him over anything. So, there’s that whole anger towards myself ... how did this escape me? I swear I’m quite an intelligent usually!
He says he has told me everything and plenty of it felt like he wanted to vomit out all the information he had kept hidden for so long. Like it was cathartic for him... he says I saved him by finding out now. So yes the words are right, the actions are good too and since we are locked in due to the virus, he can’t do much anyway! He attends all his meetings online, speaks to his therapists, does his worksheets, all while working hard to keep his job which in this climate is tough.
It’s just me vs. myself on an hourly basis now... I’m so glad to have found this site. Thankyou for the love and support x
Theresa and Anonymous, thanks for your replies. So much to think about here. Yes, I do believe in second chances especially when the happiness of my kids relies so much on it. What I struggle with is the sheer disrespect he showed me and by forgiving that, am I disrespecting myself the same way? If I can’t protect myself.. who will. Sending you love x
ReplyDeleteNatanangel, It isn't actually forgiving, forgiving is a process like healing. Forgiving him too quickly might not be a good idea. You may regret it. You can tolerate his past behavior because it is your today and not disrespect yourself. You cannot hold forgiveness in one hand and hatred at the same time. It will drive you crazy. Just hang out and watch what's happens. You will have much to self discovery too. Stay on the fence you won't get run over. So much concern for you.
DeleteI have just discovered this community and it does help to discover that so many before me have trodden this lonely path. After 32 years of what I thought was a wonderful relationship, I had a phone call 10 months ago from a woman telling me that she was in a relationship with my husband. My world imploded.
ReplyDeleteHe was my sole mate, my best friend, beloved husband and father. Surely this was a prank?
Sadly not! This was not his first affair and I am very slowly processing everything that has been presented to me. I asked him for a full amnesty of transgressions. It wasn't pretty!
He is desperate to stay and has entered into long term psychotherapy to address his avoidant attachment issues and lying. How could I have got him so wrong?
My friends just assumed that I would throw him out. It really isn't that easy when you have been happy with someone for over 3 decades.
I need to know this will get easier.
Unknown,
DeleteIt will get easier, I promise. Keep honouring yourself and what you need. Focus on your healing and let him manage his own stuff. As for "how did I miss this?" A whole lot of us have that question and there's not an easy answer. Sometimes, it's because they were really good at hiding it. Other times, we've ignored little red flags. Or we avoid conflict ourselves. Or we dismiss gut feelings. So consider what it might have been if only to learn better. Though, sometimes, all we can learn is that people are complicated.
Unknown, I know what you mean. I was 60 when I discovered the same. It isn't hard not to see things when "its your fault", being lied to,not looking at the phone bill, credit card bill or direct deposits. I think we just get beaten down by trying to do everything, be everything to everyone, work hard, wash clothes that we honestly go blind. We go blind, then get used to being blind. This is not your fault. He did this all on his own. All by himself. How desperate is he really? I just sat back, opened my eyes and watched through a window that had been washed. Like a window in a house, separate but together. I know that gut wrenching hurt. I can still kind=of=feel it. I'm so sorry. You will get through this. Get STD tested.
DeleteGIRL!!! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN THIS LAST YEAR OF THIS TERRIBLE LIFE I HAD TO LIVE!?! You hit the nail on the head with this blog. I've recently opened my eyes and realized "wait a minute... This whole thing was not about me at all!!!" And I quickly had a feeling of empowerment rush over me. Let me pull my big girl panties on and get back to me. I have three little girls to raise and they cant keep seeing their mama looking like the walking dead because of some shit someone else did. I don't know how I stumbled across your blog but thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!!
ReplyDeleteCryssieTheSavage, I'm so glad you found us. The writer of this incredible post is Lynn Less Pain, who's been on this site from a whole lotta years and who always teaches us something new. You're among incredible women here. Recognizing that his cheating has nothing to do with you but is rather about HIS shortcomings is the perfect place to begin healing. Welcome to the club none of us wanted to join.
Delete