Part 1) I’m really struggling with being in a limbo situation at the moment and it relates to this validation. It really does seem to be a point at which I ultimately decide to or go but then – things are never that clearcut. You all know the body blow of the disloyalty, the deception, the coldness, hostility, the awful things the spouse said about us to the OW or OM. (My husband had an emotional and almost exit affair, coffees, dinners, endless texting, D-day2). As a stay at home mum of four, one kid with behavioural difficulties (aspergers) I’d become invisible. My husband had the freedom (and responsibility) of being out at work but, I’m now recognising he had set things up in such as way that I never felt I could question work, or ask him to take the family into account (without him feeling stressed and turning it back on me), I had no autonomy. He had first access to the money (he transferred a large amount to me each month. I found out not too long ago that in 2004/05 he spent a large amount of family money on porn sites. He lent the OW 500 euro. Since the affair I have had to swallow the sh*t of my deepest values of family loyalty being ripped apart, of having had my role in the house questioned ‘what does she do all day?’ – the OW, my stress and overwhelm about my father’s heart attack being broadcast to the OW as ‘bad behaviour.’ I have felt invalidated and taken apart.
I know that a lot of my own poor self-esteem stems from difficult childhood events. I am taking action and getting help and following exercises to heal my negative core self-beliefs, I am valuing myself and my contribution. I am taking responsibility. Since the affair I have had to accept my husband working a bit further from home, I have supported him in taking an acting course which means he is out two nights a week (and at the moment three nights as he has got a part in a play). He is still free and easy in terms of being able to come and go while I’m here for the kids. It’s triggering to have him out so much but I’m working on those triggers. The key thing I asked for was for him to contact me to let me know he was on his way home. A week ago on Monday he accidentally didn’t press send on the text when he was delayed. He apologised but then handled the subsequent conversations badly/inadequately. Our further exchanges made him feel terrible – he is still struggling with self-loathing and often thinks I am saying he is not doing anything to help/be nice. He got so despondent about the relationship (he says) that when a work thing meant he was out for a fourth night in the week, he sent me no text or updates at all and returned at 2.30am. You many not remember but this was a major issue a few times before and he knows how important it was. I’m doing all this work to feel validated and important and contributing and he does the one thing that shows utter lack of consideration and disrespect.
Part 2 He knows he has really overstepped the mark. By mutual agreement we are stepping back, considering an in-house separation (we really don’t want to raise the kids separately) and he is sleeping on the sofa. We had some positive conversations and we are looking at all possible future options, he is committing to a mental health programme for himself and we are looking at couples counselling. But then this morning he has to fly somewhere for work and we’re heading into another set of triggering absences with not resolution of the last terrible action. If there were no kids I would be gone, at least for a separation as his behaviour is constantly exacerbating an already underlying condition of anxiety (which I’ve been getting help for). Three years on from d-day2, almost 4 years from d-day1, 5 months from deceptive porn use Ican’t keep getting thrown under the bus. Yet there is tenderness and lots going for us. I just can’t be in this limbo situation where I am still in danger of having my mental health undone. I just don’t know if he has it in him to do what is needed. I have had to think about it all for far too long. I just want to get on with my life and have a more steady and happy life. Any suggestions or views? I’m terribly confused.
Fragments of hope. I hear what you are saying all clearly. You are doing it tough my dear. You are a loving devoted loyal wife and mother, but you now need to take some time for you. Your husband, like mine and many here, is a selfish person. The problem for a lot of men when they have children is nothing much changes for them = they still go to work, and they still have their "freedom" to do the things they used to do before they had children, and some like mine expected to still be able to do what they want eg, go to their sporting events, play their sport, etc. Work, whilst we need it, is quite a big problem in terms of the amount of time they spend at work, then add in the additional pressure for us wives when they travel. I firmly believe that if any husband "has to attend" outside working hours functions etc 1) their wives are invited 2) or they don't go. They spend enough time at work which leads to more time with co workers and not the wife and family. This was a huge bone of contention in my marriage where work and work people became more important to him than us - his choice to avoid responsibilities!!! These men chose to have the family life, and yes it is tough, but instead of checking out when it gets too hard or their needs aren't being met, they need to step up and live up to their responsibilities. You have been very generous with giving your husband time to pursue his interests, and you are left doing all the family things 24/7. FOH. Are you doing anything for yourself? If not, you need to start to find a hobby that takes you out of the home even if it's just for an hour at first, but so you can get out and your husband can do his role of being a father. How old are your children, and your child with Asperger’s how much care do they need? Your husband was being selfish to not contact you when he was out and not follow up that the message was sent/received. They're able to spend all the time with ow on the phone, so to give you the courtesy of phone calls, texts etc is only natural to expect respect to come your way. FOH. Whether you separate or not, your husband needs to start to take more time to be a father. Start to lock him in to some time NOW. Please start to do something for you. If you are short on money? even if you go to your local library and sit on your own for some time. You need to take little steps for your own sanity, to start to make your mind busy with having other things to think about other than this shitty situation you are having to deal with - doesn't mean you forget what's happening, but just to give your mind a break. Please take care of YOU. I hope to hear back from you soon that you are starting to do something for YOU, please.
Part 1 FOH, I can relate in so many ways to what you feel and have felt. My husband did exactly the same thing as all of his distance and excuses were tied to work or his family. And primarily work. He was very busy and has been highly successful so it all correlated. I gave up a lot for him going into it with the mentality that we were a team and the pay off was he was building his career which would payoff financially and with freedom for both of us. I would get to be home with the kids. We agreed this would be best for everyone. Granted my husband's affairs were sporadic with two women over 10 years so he would be distance and then be I guess you would say warmer. He explained he would repress and start to feel less guilt as time had passed since he had seen or been with one of them.
But he was very selfish with his time in all ways. That left me juggling everything. I was very supportive and I kept everything together at the highest level. For him it worked out well. He had complete freedom but also this great wife and family he could display or talk about. I did not sit back though and I would challenge him about our relationship and also ask if there were ever other women. I was not naive and get what happens on guy trips etc. My husband would talk out of both sides of his mouth. He would tell me how amazing I was etc. But then if I questioned anything or brought up a date night he would tell me he was busy, tired, do I not appreciate all he does, is my life not good enough, does he not make enough money, are our vacations not good enough... Now I can see it was him being defensive and also making himself try to feel better.
As far as these habits that was a huge process for us. My husband would say he was going to golf at 10am and not come home till 2-3am with zero contact. And maybe it was bad for me but I am the person who gets things done, does not wallow and found my own happiness. I had confronted him for 15+ years about doing more with other couples, doing things just us together, focusing on our family. There was always an excuse. Now he has admitted to me he was selfish and that he deserved everything he did and never thought about us ever. That really hurt.
Recently it came up the topic of how people only talk about themselves and how someone I have known for 15+ years had no idea I worked ever. Yet I knew what her job was from before having kids. He casually told me he liked that people did not know I worked since he likes them thinking everything we have is due to his success and that reflects well on him and his career. He likes the idea of me being the stay at home mom that he can provide. Except I have always worked, some years and times more or less, but still I have juggled it all. Yet he wants people to think I do not and have not worked. That set me off and is still upsetting to me. He says he is being honest. I question a lot when he makes that statement. He loves the money I bring in and all of that. The main reason I am ramping up is for my self esteem and for my own financial and career security.
I know it is a different situation but sounds like similar feelings. I kept thinking me too when reading your post.
Part 2 FOH, For us working through how basically my husband had lived his entire life and our entire relationship took a lot of work. He has now admitted that on dday the reason he held back some details was he did not know if he could stay. He said he sat there not knowing if he could change or how hard it would be. He in his mind gave himself 6 months of putting in effort and then reevaluating.
Initially of course it was working through the pain and details. But then we started to move on to what type of relationship we each wanted and what being a husband and wife meant to each of us. Also we set up some expectations and boundaries. Many my ideas but he also contributed. For us the biggest change was for that first 1-1 1/2 we cut out almost all non necessary things from our life. We simplified. We pretty much just focused on us and our family. Even still today the more stress or busy we are then the harder it is for each of us to cope and we feel distant from each other. And in the end we knew we had to focus just on us. So it was work, kids and us. We still try to minimize what is on our schedule and say no to things. Before dday we were both super busy but mainly with our own separate things. We were both having fun but not with each other. Now we have refocused.
As far as boundaries go all of the basic affair boundaries but then boundaries around communication, drinking, who he is with, where he goes, how he handles himself. And over 2 1/2 years out all of those boundaries have become habits. There have been bumps and nothing is perfect. He was on his absolute best behavior forever. And there have been a couple nights where he drank too much. The first time was in the spring and we had a sit down. The most recent time was the end of summer and it was a major discussion. I told him that no matter how much he has cleaned up his behavior and will not cheat again or act inappropriate in any way the excessive drinking has to stop even once in a blue moon. I just said to him that if this is how he chooses to live his life I would rather be alone forever. And it is the truth. I hate to give up what we have and I like you want to raise our kids together. But at this point I am worth more than this. If he cannot say no to a shot or one more drink then how can I trust he can say no to some woman flirting with him. To me it is all connected to poor decision making and then lowering inhibitions while drinking. He also feels very guilty after the fact when he goes out. For us before he goes out we have an in depth discussion about who, where, when, why etc and he will even say when he will leave to come home and set a limit on his drinks. And this is done by him, not me saying now how many drinks. I also have told him I will not play the role of his mother. I have two teenagers who are more responsible than this and I will not play that game with him.
If it were me based on what you are going through I would say I would feel better if we focused just on us and not outside activities. Have you guys sat down and had a major heart to heart. Does he know how you really feel? Meaning he has to set aside acting and plays for a while. Focus just on you two and your family. Then see how things work and you are able to put more effort focused on that. Work wise that is hard. My husband does not have to travel and he has said since dday if he did he would find a job without travel. He has gone away with friends but actually tends to fall apart while he is away. It has gotten a little bit better but he says he worries so much about me. He used to take a ton of guy trips and I would never hear from him. Now I hear from him all the time and the deal is I can call him at any time.
Along the way we have hit many low points but each time he rises to my expectations and learns from it which at this point keeps me going.
FOH, have you thought about taking a vacation - just you - or you and some girlfriends - or you go visit out of town family.. and give H a week or even better two weeks to do ALL the child care, I mean ALL of it, they are his kids. He will have to decline work trips but so what, I work in an industry where we travel as much as 50% of the time and on occasion one of us has a personal commitment and can not go. Unless it is a frequent behavior no one ever gets fired for that. It will give you what sounds like some needed time apart, let you get clarity on what you want for yourself and also let H walk a mile in your shoes. I bet a vacation for FOH is overdue.
FOH, I think this is a situation where you need to control what you can (you) and do your best to let go of what you can't (him). He is letting you down over and over. I know how devastating that is. And it seems as if he's so mired in his own pain and self-loathing that he isn't able to be there to support you. On top of it, you have all his unkind words (that underscore some of what you already believe about yourself) ringing in your ears. You need to find your own "acting" gig. Something that makes you feel good, lets you step out of your role of wife/mother, and gives you time away to refuel. If he has had money for porn, then you certainly have latitude to use money for what you need. So what might that look like? Old hobbies you've abandoned? Friends you've neglected? Something you've always wanted to try but didn't have time/courage/money? This is your moment. Put aside marriage stuff for now. You've been working on it for years. Make YOU your priority. Take up dance, or improv, or take an art class or a writing class. Go back to school. Whatever it is, it's about you and what makes you excited and reminds you that you are so much more than a wife and mother. In the meantime, I would keep boundaries in place with him in a way that makes you feel safe. If you want him on the couch, then that's his bed. Let it unfold as naturally as you can. I suspect, until he's better able to commit to dealing with own issues, they are going to continue to get in the way of him being able to truly acknowledge your pain and support you. So stop expecting him to be someone he's not able to be right now. He might never be that person. But your priority right now is YOU. I suspect that if you take the focus off of him and what he is/isn't doing, you might find a freedom that you don't have right now. And don't count on him to step in and parent while you're pursuing other things. That's setting yourself up for frustration. Find a good caregiver who you can rely on. And then...soar, FOH. Soar.
Thank you so much Elle, that is so good to hear and yes, so important. I've been doing some of those things - I spent a chunk of money on an online writing course for example and I've applied for a library assistant job - not sure if I'll get it or if it will work out but you are so right, I need to be something - or somewhere else. We've stopped all those stupid discussions and I'm so realising that we are toxic to each other right now - that he is a trigger and makes me feel so wound up trying to figure out whether or not he will be that person or should we have a future blah blah blah. I'm nearly 48, I'm coming to that time when I don't see the point of wasting another day, a day that could be happier, lighter, full of the lovely small miracles and bounties that are always there by being mired in this anxiety, grief, upset. I want to live a good life and enjoy what I can as much as possible. Thank you.
You may not like this. I know where I am, I should be taking my own advice here. But....i honestly believe that unless your husband is willing to put EXACTLY into your marriage what YOU need, no matter how crazy or ridiculous it may sound to him, I think YOU need to leave. I know it's easier said than done. But I can tell you. I'm only 29 days in. And there were multiple incidents, I found out about six of them all at once. I will never know if there was more. But I made a promise to myself today. If my husband does not give me EXACTLY what I need from this day forward, no matter what he may think about it, I will leave. And if I EVER find out he ever does ANY of this again, no matter how hard it is, how much I love him, I will leave. I think there may be hope for some. I don't know if that's me or not, we are working together to find out. What I do know is this, if you have had multiple occasions to find things out, especially years apart there are only two possibilities. Your husband has a true problem. He loves you but there is something not right in his head and it will take counseling and the hardest work he has ever done to fix it. Option number two: That man just doesn't love you. And not because you are unlovable. My husband grew up with an absent father, a drug addict mother, and in and out of dysfunctional foster homes. He never SAW or LEARNED how to love. He loves me, I believe that with all my heart, but it's the way he knows how to love, and its not even close to the right way. For today, I am considering myself lucky because I truly believe my husband is going to try and do whatever it takes to fix this, no matter what it is that I need. But after this, there are things that we as wives need. And if he isn't willing to do the work, it's his loss, cuz I gave him everything, and I know for a fact the stuff I have stood by him through, he will never find any of that again. Your husband needs to get serious professional help. If he doesn't, if he doesn't do the work to change, this will happen again. And again. When I honestly can't see myself physically or emotionally being able to live through this twice, let alone three or four times. Don't do tha y to yourself. It will be the hardest thing ever to leave him. And it's possible that when you do, the agony you will feel in making that choice will be almost as great as when he hurt you. But someday, if you push through and you ask for help, and you realize how strong and beautiful you truly are, someday you will be truly, genuinely happy without him. You'll wonder why you stayed so long. I promise.
Hi Unknown, I think this is a reply to my post. You're right there has to be limits. My husband had an emotional affair and then 9 months later went back talking as friends but the main issue since then has been his poor emotional skills at supporting me through triggers. He's never been strong at it and he's had huge work stresses over the last few years (including his rogue boss suing his current company and putting it in financial jeopardy. Also his mother has had a devastating stroke so she can no longer properly communicate and is in a wheelchair. We also have had massive stresses with our boy who has Aspergers. This is not to excuse my husband. He does have problems that have not been solved but he has had real things to deal with. Having said that I think I would have left altogether or at least separated if we didn't have 4 children/now teens. They have all been through a lot as the issues with the child with Aspergers caused lots of stress. However you're right that you can't sacrifice yourself if your husband can't or won't do the work. If he ever had an inappropriate friendship or affair again I would be gone. And right, after him failing to contact me when out at a work conference, now he knows that unless he gets help and makes great changes, we may raise the kids together (in house separation) but once they are grown we will go our separate ways. Thanks for your concern and strong support.
I think that is the key. At a certain point we have to accept what they did but the bigger issue is how they face it and both deal with it themselves and with us. I was stuck for a long time on the details. But after a while I realized it was about more. It was about what kind of marriage/relationship I want to be in and expend my energy. I know what I have to give and I know my value. He has to show me his value. Bringing home a big paycheck is not enough. And being present when he wants to is not enough. There is a long list of needs, wants and expectations that I feel are must haves now. I have gone through enough and I do expect more. What he has done has raised my expectations. I am more matter of fact than ever about what I want. Hang in there!
Fragments of hope His emotional dysfunctions are a major stumbling block for us from time to time. I'm sorry you have one of those too. We're working on this, but like your h, mine has pretty much been this way since the beginning of our relationship. I remember his saying at one point that 'this is who I am', and it's the emotional difference in us that he loves. These statements were so puzzling to me until I witnessed him trying to rid us of his cow for over a year before he filed his harassment case. She felt like her relationship with him was so special and he was not being honest with himself in choosing the easy way out by staying married. Because of his inability to make his feelings clear to her, she continued to have hope that he would 'come to his senses', and choose her. Once he began to tell me the details of the affair, I could see the pattern of her delusional thinking. He broke up with this woman after the first two months but she kept finding reasons for her 'friend', to come to her rescue. My h was her exit affair and she used him to completely destroy her marriage to her 'very controlling' h. She was a very good manipulator. He told her for almost a year before dday that he didn't love her. He couldn't understand how she could still want to be near him given how much he lied to her not to mention she knew he was lying to me when he stopped by her apartment after work and telling me he had to work over for a bit. I slowly taught him female emotions and pointed out the difference between male emotions and female. We're still a work in progress but we're working together and he's still willing to listen when I trigger. He's not always what I feel I need during a bad trigger but he's willing to try and he asks me what he can do so I've become very specific, I need you to hold me, I need you to listen, without judgement that I shouldn't be triggered, just because he says he's not the same man as he was then, I can accept that because I know I'm not the same person as I was before dday and I know that I'm continuing to change. One day at a time, one struggle at a time. Sending hugs
I want to be this woman too! And on a scale I'm as close as I've ever been in my life, so thankful for that! BUT I admit I still carry a sadness that accompanies this new strength in myself alone. I didn't foresee these years so emotionally solo. It has truly been unlearning old habits and learning new ones. Hard work, but worth it! Sometimes I do have to give my mind a rest from it all as it doesn't feel totally natural yet. Thank you for encouragement from those of you ahead of me in this area!
Amen. I shared a similar sentiment with my IC recently and getting to this point in my personal healing has been my saving grace. H lost his job (again). Trying to keep it 'not my problem'.
Thank you Gabby, Hopeful 30 and Brown eyed girl, your concern and suggestions really mean a lot. We've done plenty of talking oh yes, and, to me, much more useful talking in recent times, identifying how both of us suffer from depression, anxiety and low self-esteem and how it fed into poor exchanges in the past. We also are both totally committed to our family and he knows what his affair took from the family and his relp with kids and says it's important to him to sort out. Gabby asked about the kids, they are, almost 17 (the guy with Aspergers), 15, 13 and almost 10 so we are out of the baby days but the older boys need a strong sense of values and guidance. We have been through hell with the boy with Aspergers – behavioural problems and out of school for two years (crossing over some of the affair and post affair time) but he has turned a corner and things are much better with my son. Despite a court case hanging over my husband re work (more stress and work tax demands, more stress) things are on the up. He has totally cut back on travel for the reasons you say, so he’s done the right thing, it’s only occasional now. The key problem has been his defensiveness and lack of being able to emotionally faced into my triggers and stressors. The horror of last Thursday when he didn’t contact me till 2.30am was that it had been an issue earlier in the week and he just knows what disrespect it shows. Since we’d been there before it had become a dealbreaker for me. And he self-destructed and walked into it because of work stress and feeling bad about himself. So the solution – sort himself out – he’s signed up to a course. But I’ve come to a point that I’m not willing (as you were saying Hopeful30) to be affected by his poor choices. He has had two alcoholic uncles and he himself let porn take over for a while, so he knows that he has issues. Like you, I’m afraid that, like last thurs him feeling aggrieved (we’d argued about my triggers) and not contacting me on purpose that he might find some other bad way of making himself better. We all have coping mechanisms, not always ideal – for me occasional bars of chocolate when I’m at risk of diabetes, some okay, yesterday I bought two sweaters for myself and I find walking by the sea terrific. Brown eyed girl – I actually had an out of town trip last weekend – apparently that contributed to the stress and disconnect between us – in his eyes. But yes, as you all suggested I feel I need not to be always there. I’ve applied for a full time job – even though it will interfere with my novel writing and the kids will have to make adjustments. I just feel that I can do all the therapy in the world but that I need something radical to change to give me confidence and to change the parameters of our life set up. The current situation with my husband is that he is sleeping on the couch, he is meant to sign up for the depression course next Monday and I now feel that these endless discussions are not going to work unless there is a clear line in the sand. So, for now, I am mentally detaching from him and will take a break from discussions and act emotionally separated. And I'd love some more actual space and distance if possible. Perhaps it will give him breathing space to face into his actions, offer reparation and do something proactive. I just don’t want to be at the whim of his maladjusted actions anymore.
I've been down in the dumps all week... the OW's husband said she's a hoe. . And if I think my H done anything I better get checked for STD'S. .. wow. At my age this will be a first for me. But I go tomorrow for my yearly gyn appointment and I'm so embarrassed and ashamed that I need to ask my Dr to check .. I hope it's negative cause then maybe I can go on believing it was just texting .. but if it's positive then there's no denying it. Cause in 20+ years I've only been with my H. How long does it take to get results ?? And please say a prayer for me . Hugs my friends . And thanks for always listening. .
Izzy, Prayers offered. A lot of us know the feeling. But it isn't YOUR shame to carry. I felt similarly to you the day I got tested. I went to an STD clinic and, there I was, amongst the 20-year-olds who forgot to use a condom that weekend. I told the nurse why I wondered if I'd contracted an STD and she was matter-of-fact and kind. They don't pass judgement, they just want people safe and healthy. Results are pretty quick -- a few days to a week, I suspect. Hang in there, Izzy. I'm sorry you've been down all week. What can you do for yourself after your appointment that might give you a boost? Be gentle with yourself. Take care of yourself.
Izzy, I can remember my visit to the Gyn just a month after dday. I had just had my annual and I had to schedule a specific appointment for testing. I was mortified. I can remember just sitting on the exam table and weeping, trying to tell the nurse what I needed. The nurse was incredible. She said "honey, I know its tough and you are feeling so embarrassed right now, but you are not alone and you have nothing to be ashamed of. We have women come in for this so much it just breaks my heart." and she told me I was gonna be OK, no matter how things turned out. Just remember that these are professionals, most of whom are very compassionate and they see this a lot. They are also required to keep your info confidential. Also know that if you are in the US you can go to Planned Parenthood or similar clinics and get this testing done with a greater degree of anonymity. Personally, I was glad my gyn knew what was going on because I he was incredibly compassionate. The way they handled my visit helped restore my faith in humanity just a little bit.
It is good that you are doing it. I also made my husband go. We actually went to a planned parenthood that was far away from where we live. We made the trip together. We each had to meet with the doctor together alone. It was in the first two months after dday. I would say it was a pivotal experience. It was not easy at all but as my therapist said some of these things are an opportunity for my husband to prove himself. The fact that he cleared his scheduled, took it seriously, broke down crying, was anxious waiting for results and concerned most about me was revealing. The planned parenthood experience was amazing. They deal with so much and were so kind, professional and sensitive. For us it was a great option. I highly recommend it. And also they see a lot of different stories and are very educated on STDs and other concerns related to promiscuous behavior. I liked that I knew this doctor was asking my husband very pointed questions. Things I would not know to ask. My husband said he never wants to cheat again but going through the STD testing and having to be the reason I went was a new low for him and one he never wants to repeat.
This is LLP, as a nurse, get the entire screening nothing left out HPV, Vaginal Herpes Type 1 and 2, HIV tell them you want everything. There are different types of STD screening panels. Also I repeated all the test in 6 months. I contracted vaginal herpes. Although not required I ask my OBGYNN to report it to the state and health department which she did. I then told the OW I contracted vaginal herpes. She started a crying type howling, then I told her the DOH will be contacting her to make a list of her sexual contracts to develop a plan of notification to them all. (this really wasn't true but I wanted some accountability). For the last three years I have gotten the entire screening again. I take no changes with my health. I tell my H - you could have killed me and if I ever get HPV, I might have to re-think things. I guess I use this as accountability club. My H is so nervous until I get the test results.
izzy, GYN's sadly see betrayed wives for testing frequently. I am grateful my GYN opened up & shared with me her H cheated when she was pregnant with their 4th child. I am so glad I told her and so relieved I got tested.
Hi Izzy, I also went for an std test following d day and the practice were so supportive and kind. They really dont pass judgement and remember you’ve done nothing wrong. I don’t know where you are or how quick the results can be obtained but here in the U.K. it takes a few days and they can text the results to your mobile. Izzy your taking care of your well being and you will continue to do that whatever the results maybe. I went alone but maybe you have a trusted friend you could take along for some support. Thinking if you Izzy .. big hugs xx
Thanks ladies. I'm sitting here waiting to be called back. With tears in my eyes I still can't believe he'd do this to me... to put me through this shame and hurt !! I came alone as I only have 2 friends.. and both have their own lives. After the appointment me and my daughter are going for a pedicure ..I'll keep y'all posted. Many thanks
izzy I'm one of those people who have been given a std in the very beginning of my relationship with my h who was my boyfriend at the time. HPV required me to be hospitalized with IV fluids and antibiotics for several days. The lasting impact is that now I can possibly get cancer and just recently learned that because my h was the carrier way back then he too is at risk and so is the cow that he chose to have unprotected sex with. I'm so sorry you are having to do this. I know how humiliating it feels. Sending hugs and prayers for a negative result for you!
Big hugs coming your way, Izzy. I was grateful that my husband went with me and we were both tested at one appointment. I remember feeling ashamed that I was even there.. But as Elle mentioned above, it’s not our shame to carry. Enjoy that pedicure with your daughter! ❤️
Thank you everyone ! Dr said everything looks normal and I'll get results in a few days. My Dr is the best. I cried as I gave him the short version of what happened. He said the shame wasn't mine it's my husband's.. he said that he sees this at least once aday.. and he'd like to knock the hell out of some of these husbands. He said they think the grass is greener on the other side but when they get to the other side they realize that the grass was actually better on their side and they were happier with their wives then with the other woman there with now. Then during my breast exam he found a lump. When I was done he hugged me and told me his mother went through this to and he told me he'd pray for me.(So now im scared about the lump cause cancer runs in my family) I just had mammogram in May. I go back now for a diagnostic exam in Nov. I haven't told my H cause he didn't even ask how my appointment went. :( and my daughter was sick so we didn't go for a pedicure. Also my husband hides that he sends his daughter and her lazy ass H money all the time..ugh.. she don't even ask anymore. She'll just text and say "I need 300 or 500 " if I see that she text him I'll ask if he's heard from her lately then he usually tells me. But this week he says he sent her 300. But she wanted 500 . But he don't have a receipt ?? This has gotten to be almost every week.... and it's also the only time she even talks to him. She didn't even call or text for his bday or fathers day.... we don't give my adult kids money .
Izzy, your doctor sounds wonderful. I hope you'll turn his words over and over in your brain until they feel like truth to you. Your issues re. your husband giving his daughter money are legitimate but, honestly, I would shelve them for now. You've got bigger fish to fry. You need to focus on you and getting well. I'm sorry about the lump but let's all hope and pray, it's benign. Keep us posted, izzy.
You know the acting classes that I was supporting my husband in going to, even though it was triggering for me to have him out so often? I've just found out that, for some unfathomable reason, he started to have heart to hearts about his struggles with one of the single women on his course and I've found a series of texts 'where are you my love?' where it was obviously overstepping the mark. And, of course, he never told me. I sat him down and questioned him and it turns out he also went out for coffee alone with a workmate who was sad about her mother dying and they shared stories (his mother had an awful stroke.) These circumstances are how the emotional affair started! We couldn't have been clearer on inappropriate female friendships! His line now is that he realises that he never did any work on himself so is still messed up! Are these men from another planet? Has someone stolen his brain? I give up! (exasperation) As you said above Elle, time to focus on me and my own life and stop expecting him to be something he's not able to be. What a waste of life though, what a waste of the opportunity, the understanding and flexibility I was offering.
FOH I'm so sorry for what you are going through. This was my h. Always having inappropriate "friendships" with other women. He would be spending quality time with these bitches over me - and theses women could not see a problem with it either. Very mixed up people out there. And I too, had given him years of loyalty, support and love and I too think - what a waste. There is something mentally wrong with these men - I'm certain, especially my h. Just remember, us wives have a big kind generous hearts and spirit, and as I keep telling myself daily as I am living through 7 weeks of our 2nd separation "his loss". We all react differently but I really hate my h at the moment, and despite the impending loss of financial security - I'm so glad he's out of my life. I just don't want to be around someone who has such low moral standards, lies constantly etc and can not see how much pain they put their wife and children through. If these "husbands" spent and invested more time with their wives, talking to them etc, the world of marriages may be a happier place. FOH. I'm thinking of you and sending you many HUGS. Gabby xo
Oh and if I didn't say, of course he kept it from me and probably would never have told me. Brilliant! Just brilliant! I had to laugh when I saw her phone number started with the digits 666.
Fragments of hope I'm so sorry! I'm shaking my head and just baffled at his lack of understanding how his actions continue to pour salt into a very raw wound. I hope others can have better advice but for now I can just offer love and sending hugs! I'm hurting for you!
Thanks so much for saying that Theresa. This has been another big shake up but this time it seems to be as much for him as me (from some thoughts he sent me yesterday.) This time there is a very clear line in the sand that this is make or break time and he either gets his head sorted out or we just can't continue as a married couple.
It is just impossible to understand and believe. And as you said you had clear discussions about what was an inappropriate relationship/behavior. This was not a mystery. You speak with clarity and are focused. More than ever it seems you can see to focus on you and invest in yourself. It speaks to what we read here that it is not about us and we cannot make someone else change. In the end they have to do the work.
Fragments of Hope- so very sorry for this new pain. I had to do a lot of snooping with my husband pre Dday on a site called Bodyspace. In the year and a half that I tracked ever move, I learned a lot about so many lost souls. There were many men and women in their 40’s and early 50’s that were on their path to a healthy body and looking great, but they were so very lost and emotionally looking for any compliment to fill them up on a daily basis. People profiles said married but their daily chatter on posts was so so inappropriate. Some were freshly divorced and on the hunt, while others were on the verge of divorce due to their destructive online banter. I watched many post “well, I’ve been offline for awhile due marriage difficulties and we are getting a divorce.” It literally was like a soap opera unfolding. It was really sad. I felt very sorry for all of them. How do you move away from someone in your home emotionally to make room for a complete stranger? I think it’s easy to get attached and chat it up when all the stresses and warts of your life are removed and someone is kind and listening to you. I can’t fathom, but that is what I observed. My H was approaching 50 and lost. He got lots of compliments and it fed him on a daily basis. He got in deep with many and it was a twisted daily addiction. It eventually got to...hey I’m going to visit you in person and they did!
Ugh it’s so hard to understand. I just don’t need that amount of validation in life. Sure we all have moments where we feel like life is hum drum and less than exciting, but we don’t have it in our head to chat it up, have coffee or worse sleep with another to get out of a rut. There’s plenty of therapists that can get you out of a rut in a safer, less destructive method.
Hugs. Really. I know this heartbreak and it so awful.
I come here often and read the amazinh support, it gives me strength and encouragement, but today I am struggling.
I found out that the ex OW is now pregnant with her first child. She told my partner during the affair thay she never wanted children but apparently she is thrilled to be having a baby with her husband. It feels to me that her life has just got better since the affair. Mine has been more of a struggle.
I am almost 18 months from dday. We are getting on well. We talk frankly but I still hold in pain. My sister recently suffered a miscarriage and it seems so wrong that she, a good person, suffered this whereas the OW is glodong through life blessed and untouched. My husband doesn't know she is pregnant. Should I even tell him?
Hazel I don't think it's a good idea to discuss anything current about this person. My experience hasn't been easy when I bring anything up present about her because it just triggers his guilt and shame and so we've cut her out of our lives and discussions other than triggers that are directly related to her driving by our house.
We decided together to do everything possible to keep the ow out of our lives. If they contacted my husband he has to tell me and we will decide together what to do. At this point we block the phone numbers. My husband wanted nothing to do with them. He felt that engaging with them would open the door for future contact. As far as me I was focused on following them on social media and worrying about what they were doing or wanting to know if they were happy. One day I realized it was miserable and focused on the wrong thing. These women already infiltrated my life and wasted too many years. I decided at that point I was not going to give them any attention even just looking up their FB page. In the end I want to put 100% of my focus and energy into myself, my kids and my marriage. I do understand your feelings of it not being fair. But in the end no one knows how happy she is or is not. People put on a front to the outside world and even those they are close to. Prime example my husband. I used to believe in karma but I do not anymore. In the end I have to do what is right for me and I go to bed each night knowing that I have been true to myself.
Foh, Gabby has given you some great advice, I can relate to much of what Gabby has said these type of men do have some malfunction in their brains they cannot operate without their egos being stroked and nurtured constantly. Foh you may have to consider that this is what’s to come from your h unless he wants to change his behaviour but like Gabby i had enough of the pathetic attempts to change and kicked his sorry ass out a year ago now and to be honest my sanity has been restored, my self belief and worth has come back and I ain’t letting this man fuck me over again. I too hate my h at the moment I’m just playing nice to get what I need I.e financial mostly. I am in the process off carving out a new career change so if and when I get away from I will be able to stand on my own two feet and not depend on someone who is unreliable. Xxx
Thanks Sam A, Teresa, Hopeful30. All the different things you've said to me and about your own stories add up to the fact that we need to focus on what is right and healthy for us. I think now that I've just completed an excellent course for depression and anxiety, I now realise how much my mental health has been put in jeopardy by my husband's inconsistencies and I can't let that happen again. The update is that my husband seems to now really understand that, acknowledges that - even though he's going to try and figure things out - with help his issues might be such that it would not be healthy for me to stay with him. He's on the couch (sleeping, not in therapy - yet!) indefinitely, has started a course on depression, has come up with more insights in the last few days than in the last four years and has put the acting course aside with the potential of giving it up altogether and is looking at counselling for himself and us. He knows it all might be too late. He says he frightens himself by not knowing why he does it. He sees parallels between his uncle's manic depression and compulsions (alcohol mainly) and his own modes. I need a clear head, to keep boosting myself and living a life I'm happy with and to make a future decision that doesn't allow me to have to live in this world of uncertainty and pain any longer. Thanks ladies xx
Part 1) I’m really struggling with being in a limbo situation at the moment and it relates to this validation. It really does seem to be a point at which I ultimately decide to or go but then – things are never that clearcut. You all know the body blow of the disloyalty, the deception, the coldness, hostility, the awful things the spouse said about us to the OW or OM. (My husband had an emotional and almost exit affair, coffees, dinners, endless texting, D-day2). As a stay at home mum of four, one kid with behavioural difficulties (aspergers) I’d become invisible. My husband had the freedom (and responsibility) of being out at work but, I’m now recognising he had set things up in such as way that I never felt I could question work, or ask him to take the family into account (without him feeling stressed and turning it back on me), I had no autonomy. He had first access to the money (he transferred a large amount to me each month. I found out not too long ago that in 2004/05 he spent a large amount of family money on porn sites. He lent the OW 500 euro. Since the affair I have had to swallow the sh*t of my deepest values of family loyalty being ripped apart, of having had my role in the house questioned ‘what does she do all day?’ – the OW, my stress and overwhelm about my father’s heart attack being broadcast to the OW as ‘bad behaviour.’ I have felt invalidated and taken apart.
ReplyDeleteI know that a lot of my own poor self-esteem stems from difficult childhood events. I am taking action and getting help and following exercises to heal my negative core self-beliefs, I am valuing myself and my contribution. I am taking responsibility. Since the affair I have had to accept my husband working a bit further from home, I have supported him in taking an acting course which means he is out two nights a week (and at the moment three nights as he has got a part in a play). He is still free and easy in terms of being able to come and go while I’m here for the kids. It’s triggering to have him out so much but I’m working on those triggers. The key thing I asked for was for him to contact me to let me know he was on his way home. A week ago on Monday he accidentally didn’t press send on the text when he was delayed. He apologised but then handled the subsequent conversations badly/inadequately. Our further exchanges made him feel terrible – he is still struggling with self-loathing and often thinks I am saying he is not doing anything to help/be nice. He got so despondent about the relationship (he says) that when a work thing meant he was out for a fourth night in the week, he sent me no text or updates at all and returned at 2.30am. You many not remember but this was a major issue a few times before and he knows how important it was. I’m doing all this work to feel validated and important and contributing and he does the one thing that shows utter lack of consideration and disrespect.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteHe knows he has really overstepped the mark. By mutual agreement we are stepping back, considering an in-house separation (we really don’t want to raise the kids separately) and he is sleeping on the sofa. We had some positive conversations and we are looking at all possible future options, he is committing to a mental health programme for himself and we are looking at couples counselling. But then this morning he has to fly somewhere for work and we’re heading into another set of triggering absences with not resolution of the last terrible action. If there were no kids I would be gone, at least for a separation as his behaviour is constantly exacerbating an already underlying condition of anxiety (which I’ve been getting help for). Three years on from d-day2, almost 4 years from d-day1, 5 months from deceptive porn use Ican’t keep getting thrown under the bus. Yet there is tenderness and lots going for us. I just can’t be in this limbo situation where I am still in danger of having my mental health undone. I just don’t know if he has it in him to do what is needed. I have had to think about it all for far too long. I just want to get on with my life and have a more steady and happy life. Any suggestions or views? I’m terribly confused.
Fragments of hope.
DeleteI hear what you are saying all clearly. You are doing it tough my dear. You are a loving devoted loyal wife and mother, but you now need to take some time for you. Your husband, like mine and many here, is a selfish person. The problem for a lot of men when they have children is nothing much changes for them = they still go to work, and they still have their "freedom" to do the things they used to do before they had children, and some like mine expected to still be able to do what they want eg, go to their sporting events, play their sport, etc.
Work, whilst we need it, is quite a big problem in terms of the amount of time they spend at work, then add in the additional pressure for us wives when they travel. I firmly believe that if any husband "has to attend" outside working hours functions etc
1) their wives are invited
2) or they don't go.
They spend enough time at work which leads to more time with co workers and not the wife and family. This was a huge bone of contention in my marriage where work and work people became more important to him than us - his choice to avoid responsibilities!!! These men chose to have the family life, and yes it is tough, but instead of checking out when it gets too hard or their needs aren't being met, they need to step up and live up to their responsibilities.
You have been very generous with giving your husband time to pursue his interests, and you are left doing all the family things 24/7. FOH. Are you doing anything for yourself? If not, you need to start to find a hobby that takes you out of the home even if it's just for an hour at first, but so you can get out and your husband can do his role of being a father. How old are your children, and your child with Asperger’s how much care do they need?
Your husband was being selfish to not contact you when he was out and not follow up that the message was sent/received. They're able to spend all the time with ow on the phone, so to give you the courtesy of phone calls, texts etc is only natural to expect respect to come your way.
FOH. Whether you separate or not, your husband needs to start to take more time to be a father. Start to lock him in to some time NOW. Please start to do something for you. If you are short on money? even if you go to your local library and sit on your own for some time. You need to take little steps for your own sanity, to start to make your mind busy with having other things to think about other than this shitty situation you are having to deal with - doesn't mean you forget what's happening, but just to give your mind a break.
Please take care of YOU. I hope to hear back from you soon that you are starting to do something for YOU, please.
Hugs
Gabby xo
Part 1 FOH, I can relate in so many ways to what you feel and have felt. My husband did exactly the same thing as all of his distance and excuses were tied to work or his family. And primarily work. He was very busy and has been highly successful so it all correlated. I gave up a lot for him going into it with the mentality that we were a team and the pay off was he was building his career which would payoff financially and with freedom for both of us. I would get to be home with the kids. We agreed this would be best for everyone. Granted my husband's affairs were sporadic with two women over 10 years so he would be distance and then be I guess you would say warmer. He explained he would repress and start to feel less guilt as time had passed since he had seen or been with one of them.
DeleteBut he was very selfish with his time in all ways. That left me juggling everything. I was very supportive and I kept everything together at the highest level. For him it worked out well. He had complete freedom but also this great wife and family he could display or talk about. I did not sit back though and I would challenge him about our relationship and also ask if there were ever other women. I was not naive and get what happens on guy trips etc. My husband would talk out of both sides of his mouth. He would tell me how amazing I was etc. But then if I questioned anything or brought up a date night he would tell me he was busy, tired, do I not appreciate all he does, is my life not good enough, does he not make enough money, are our vacations not good enough... Now I can see it was him being defensive and also making himself try to feel better.
As far as these habits that was a huge process for us. My husband would say he was going to golf at 10am and not come home till 2-3am with zero contact. And maybe it was bad for me but I am the person who gets things done, does not wallow and found my own happiness. I had confronted him for 15+ years about doing more with other couples, doing things just us together, focusing on our family. There was always an excuse. Now he has admitted to me he was selfish and that he deserved everything he did and never thought about us ever. That really hurt.
Recently it came up the topic of how people only talk about themselves and how someone I have known for 15+ years had no idea I worked ever. Yet I knew what her job was from before having kids. He casually told me he liked that people did not know I worked since he likes them thinking everything we have is due to his success and that reflects well on him and his career. He likes the idea of me being the stay at home mom that he can provide. Except I have always worked, some years and times more or less, but still I have juggled it all. Yet he wants people to think I do not and have not worked. That set me off and is still upsetting to me. He says he is being honest. I question a lot when he makes that statement. He loves the money I bring in and all of that. The main reason I am ramping up is for my self esteem and for my own financial and career security.
I know it is a different situation but sounds like similar feelings. I kept thinking me too when reading your post.
Part 2 FOH, For us working through how basically my husband had lived his entire life and our entire relationship took a lot of work. He has now admitted that on dday the reason he held back some details was he did not know if he could stay. He said he sat there not knowing if he could change or how hard it would be. He in his mind gave himself 6 months of putting in effort and then reevaluating.
DeleteInitially of course it was working through the pain and details. But then we started to move on to what type of relationship we each wanted and what being a husband and wife meant to each of us. Also we set up some expectations and boundaries. Many my ideas but he also contributed. For us the biggest change was for that first 1-1 1/2 we cut out almost all non necessary things from our life. We simplified. We pretty much just focused on us and our family. Even still today the more stress or busy we are then the harder it is for each of us to cope and we feel distant from each other. And in the end we knew we had to focus just on us. So it was work, kids and us. We still try to minimize what is on our schedule and say no to things. Before dday we were both super busy but mainly with our own separate things. We were both having fun but not with each other. Now we have refocused.
As far as boundaries go all of the basic affair boundaries but then boundaries around communication, drinking, who he is with, where he goes, how he handles himself. And over 2 1/2 years out all of those boundaries have become habits. There have been bumps and nothing is perfect. He was on his absolute best behavior forever. And there have been a couple nights where he drank too much. The first time was in the spring and we had a sit down. The most recent time was the end of summer and it was a major discussion. I told him that no matter how much he has cleaned up his behavior and will not cheat again or act inappropriate in any way the excessive drinking has to stop even once in a blue moon. I just said to him that if this is how he chooses to live his life I would rather be alone forever. And it is the truth. I hate to give up what we have and I like you want to raise our kids together. But at this point I am worth more than this. If he cannot say no to a shot or one more drink then how can I trust he can say no to some woman flirting with him. To me it is all connected to poor decision making and then lowering inhibitions while drinking. He also feels very guilty after the fact when he goes out. For us before he goes out we have an in depth discussion about who, where, when, why etc and he will even say when he will leave to come home and set a limit on his drinks. And this is done by him, not me saying now how many drinks. I also have told him I will not play the role of his mother. I have two teenagers who are more responsible than this and I will not play that game with him.
If it were me based on what you are going through I would say I would feel better if we focused just on us and not outside activities. Have you guys sat down and had a major heart to heart. Does he know how you really feel? Meaning he has to set aside acting and plays for a while. Focus just on you two and your family. Then see how things work and you are able to put more effort focused on that. Work wise that is hard. My husband does not have to travel and he has said since dday if he did he would find a job without travel. He has gone away with friends but actually tends to fall apart while he is away. It has gotten a little bit better but he says he worries so much about me. He used to take a ton of guy trips and I would never hear from him. Now I hear from him all the time and the deal is I can call him at any time.
Along the way we have hit many low points but each time he rises to my expectations and learns from it which at this point keeps me going.
FOH, have you thought about taking a vacation - just you - or you and some girlfriends - or you go visit out of town family.. and give H a week or even better two weeks to do ALL the child care, I mean ALL of it, they are his kids. He will have to decline work trips but so what, I work in an industry where we travel as much as 50% of the time and on occasion one of us has a personal commitment and can not go. Unless it is a frequent behavior no one ever gets fired for that. It will give you what sounds like some needed time apart, let you get clarity on what you want for yourself and also let H walk a mile in your shoes. I bet a vacation for FOH is overdue.
DeleteFOH,
DeleteI think this is a situation where you need to control what you can (you) and do your best to let go of what you can't (him). He is letting you down over and over. I know how devastating that is. And it seems as if he's so mired in his own pain and self-loathing that he isn't able to be there to support you. On top of it, you have all his unkind words (that underscore some of what you already believe about yourself) ringing in your ears.
You need to find your own "acting" gig. Something that makes you feel good, lets you step out of your role of wife/mother, and gives you time away to refuel. If he has had money for porn, then you certainly have latitude to use money for what you need. So what might that look like? Old hobbies you've abandoned? Friends you've neglected? Something you've always wanted to try but didn't have time/courage/money? This is your moment. Put aside marriage stuff for now. You've been working on it for years. Make YOU your priority. Take up dance, or improv, or take an art class or a writing class. Go back to school. Whatever it is, it's about you and what makes you excited and reminds you that you are so much more than a wife and mother. In the meantime, I would keep boundaries in place with him in a way that makes you feel safe. If you want him on the couch, then that's his bed. Let it unfold as naturally as you can. I suspect, until he's better able to commit to dealing with own issues, they are going to continue to get in the way of him being able to truly acknowledge your pain and support you.
So stop expecting him to be someone he's not able to be right now. He might never be that person. But your priority right now is YOU. I suspect that if you take the focus off of him and what he is/isn't doing, you might find a freedom that you don't have right now.
And don't count on him to step in and parent while you're pursuing other things. That's setting yourself up for frustration. Find a good caregiver who you can rely on. And then...soar, FOH. Soar.
Thank you so much Elle, that is so good to hear and yes, so important. I've been doing some of those things - I spent a chunk of money on an online writing course for example and I've applied for a library assistant job - not sure if I'll get it or if it will work out but you are so right, I need to be something - or somewhere else. We've stopped all those stupid discussions and I'm so realising that we are toxic to each other right now - that he is a trigger and makes me feel so wound up trying to figure out whether or not he will be that person or should we have a future blah blah blah. I'm nearly 48, I'm coming to that time when I don't see the point of wasting another day, a day that could be happier, lighter, full of the lovely small miracles and bounties that are always there by being mired in this anxiety, grief, upset. I want to live a good life and enjoy what I can as much as possible. Thank you.
DeleteFoh Elle’s given you some really great advice, I’m gonna nick a few tips too. Xx
DeleteYou may not like this. I know where I am, I should be taking my own advice here. But....i honestly believe that unless your husband is willing to put EXACTLY into your marriage what YOU need, no matter how crazy or ridiculous it may sound to him, I think YOU need to leave. I know it's easier said than done. But I can tell you. I'm only 29 days in. And there were multiple incidents, I found out about six of them all at once. I will never know if there was more. But I made a promise to myself today. If my husband does not give me EXACTLY what I need from this day forward, no matter what he may think about it, I will leave. And if I EVER find out he ever does ANY of this again, no matter how hard it is, how much I love him, I will leave. I think there may be hope for some. I don't know if that's me or not, we are working together to find out. What I do know is this, if you have had multiple occasions to find things out, especially years apart there are only two possibilities. Your husband has a true problem. He loves you but there is something not right in his head and it will take counseling and the hardest work he has ever done to fix it. Option number two: That man just doesn't love you. And not because you are unlovable. My husband grew up with an absent father, a drug addict mother, and in and out of dysfunctional foster homes. He never SAW or LEARNED how to love. He loves me, I believe that with all my heart, but it's the way he knows how to love, and its not even close to the right way. For today, I am considering myself lucky because I truly believe my husband is going to try and do whatever it takes to fix this, no matter what it is that I need. But after this, there are things that we as wives need. And if he isn't willing to do the work, it's his loss, cuz I gave him everything, and I know for a fact the stuff I have stood by him through, he will never find any of that again. Your husband needs to get serious professional help. If he doesn't, if he doesn't do the work to change, this will happen again. And again. When I honestly can't see myself physically or emotionally being able to live through this twice, let alone three or four times. Don't do tha y to yourself. It will be the hardest thing ever to leave him. And it's possible that when you do, the agony you will feel in making that choice will be almost as great as when he hurt you. But someday, if you push through and you ask for help, and you realize how strong and beautiful you truly are, someday you will be truly, genuinely happy without him. You'll wonder why you stayed so long. I promise.
DeleteHi Unknown, I think this is a reply to my post. You're right there has to be limits. My husband had an emotional affair and then 9 months later went back talking as friends but the main issue since then has been his poor emotional skills at supporting me through triggers. He's never been strong at it and he's had huge work stresses over the last few years (including his rogue boss suing his current company and putting it in financial jeopardy. Also his mother has had a devastating stroke so she can no longer properly communicate and is in a wheelchair. We also have had massive stresses with our boy who has Aspergers. This is not to excuse my husband. He does have problems that have not been solved but he has had real things to deal with. Having said that I think I would have left altogether or at least separated if we didn't have 4 children/now teens. They have all been through a lot as the issues with the child with Aspergers caused lots of stress. However you're right that you can't sacrifice yourself if your husband can't or won't do the work. If he ever had an inappropriate friendship or affair again I would be gone. And right, after him failing to contact me when out at a work conference, now he knows that unless he gets help and makes great changes, we may raise the kids together (in house separation) but once they are grown we will go our separate ways. Thanks for your concern and strong support.
DeleteI think that is the key. At a certain point we have to accept what they did but the bigger issue is how they face it and both deal with it themselves and with us. I was stuck for a long time on the details. But after a while I realized it was about more. It was about what kind of marriage/relationship I want to be in and expend my energy. I know what I have to give and I know my value. He has to show me his value. Bringing home a big paycheck is not enough. And being present when he wants to is not enough. There is a long list of needs, wants and expectations that I feel are must haves now. I have gone through enough and I do expect more. What he has done has raised my expectations. I am more matter of fact than ever about what I want. Hang in there!
DeleteFragments of hope
DeleteHis emotional dysfunctions are a major stumbling block for us from time to time. I'm sorry you have one of those too. We're working on this, but like your h, mine has pretty much been this way since the beginning of our relationship. I remember his saying at one point that 'this is who I am', and it's the emotional difference in us that he loves. These statements were so puzzling to me until I witnessed him trying to rid us of his cow for over a year before he filed his harassment case. She felt like her relationship with him was so special and he was not being honest with himself in choosing the easy way out by staying married. Because of his inability to make his feelings clear to her, she continued to have hope that he would 'come to his senses', and choose her. Once he began to tell me the details of the affair, I could see the pattern of her delusional thinking. He broke up with this woman after the first two months but she kept finding reasons for her 'friend', to come to her rescue. My h was her exit affair and she used him to completely destroy her marriage to her 'very controlling' h. She was a very good manipulator. He told her for almost a year before dday that he didn't love her. He couldn't understand how she could still want to be near him given how much he lied to her not to mention she knew he was lying to me when he stopped by her apartment after work and telling me he had to work over for a bit. I slowly taught him female emotions and pointed out the difference between male emotions and female. We're still a work in progress but we're working together and he's still willing to listen when I trigger. He's not always what I feel I need during a bad trigger but he's willing to try and he asks me what he can do so I've become very specific, I need you to hold me, I need you to listen, without judgement that I shouldn't be triggered, just because he says he's not the same man as he was then, I can accept that because I know I'm not the same person as I was before dday and I know that I'm continuing to change. One day at a time, one struggle at a time. Sending hugs
I want to be this woman
ReplyDeleteMe too!
DeleteI want to be this woman too! And on a scale I'm as close as I've ever been in my life, so thankful for that!
DeleteBUT I admit I still carry a sadness that accompanies this new strength in myself alone. I didn't foresee these years so emotionally solo.
It has truly been unlearning old habits and learning new ones. Hard work, but worth it! Sometimes I do have to give my mind a rest from it all as it doesn't feel totally natural yet.
Thank you for encouragement from those of you ahead of me in this area!
Amen. I shared a similar sentiment with my IC recently and getting to this point in my personal healing has been my saving grace. H lost his job (again). Trying to keep it 'not my problem'.
ReplyDeleteThank you Gabby, Hopeful 30 and Brown eyed girl, your concern and suggestions really mean a lot. We've done plenty of talking oh yes, and, to me, much more useful talking in recent times, identifying how both of us suffer from depression, anxiety and low self-esteem and how it fed into poor exchanges in the past. We also are both totally committed to our family and he knows what his affair took from the family and his relp with kids and says it's important to him to sort out.
ReplyDeleteGabby asked about the kids, they are, almost 17 (the guy with Aspergers), 15, 13 and almost 10 so we are out of the baby days but the older boys need a strong sense of values and guidance. We have been through hell with the boy with Aspergers – behavioural problems and out of school for two years (crossing over some of the affair and post affair time) but he has turned a corner and things are much better with my son. Despite a court case hanging over my husband re work (more stress and work tax demands, more stress) things are on the up. He has totally cut back on travel for the reasons you say, so he’s done the right thing, it’s only occasional now. The key problem has been his defensiveness and lack of being able to emotionally faced into my triggers and stressors. The horror of last Thursday when he didn’t contact me till 2.30am was that it had been an issue earlier in the week and he just knows what disrespect it shows. Since we’d been there before it had become a dealbreaker for me. And he self-destructed and walked into it because of work stress and feeling bad about himself. So the solution – sort himself out – he’s signed up to a course. But I’ve come to a point that I’m not willing (as you were saying Hopeful30) to be affected by his poor choices. He has had two alcoholic uncles and he himself let porn take over for a while, so he knows that he has issues. Like you, I’m afraid that, like last thurs him feeling aggrieved (we’d argued about my triggers) and not contacting me on purpose that he might find some other bad way of making himself better. We all have coping mechanisms, not always ideal – for me occasional bars of chocolate when I’m at risk of diabetes, some okay, yesterday I bought two sweaters for myself and I find walking by the sea terrific. Brown eyed girl – I actually had an out of town trip last weekend – apparently that contributed to the stress and disconnect between us – in his eyes. But yes, as you all suggested I feel I need not to be always there. I’ve applied for a full time job – even though it will interfere with my novel writing and the kids will have to make adjustments. I just feel that I can do all the therapy in the world but that I need something radical to change to give me confidence and to change the parameters of our life set up. The current situation with my husband is that he is sleeping on the couch, he is meant to sign up for the depression course next Monday and I now feel that these endless discussions are not going to work unless there is a clear line in the sand. So, for now, I am mentally detaching from him and will take a break from discussions and act emotionally separated. And I'd love some more actual space and distance if possible. Perhaps it will give him breathing space to face into his actions, offer reparation and do something proactive. I just don’t want to be at the whim of his maladjusted actions anymore.
I've been down in the dumps all week... the OW's husband said she's a hoe. . And if I think my H done anything I better get checked for STD'S. .. wow. At my age this will be a first for me. But I go tomorrow for my yearly gyn appointment and I'm so embarrassed and ashamed that I need to ask my Dr to check .. I hope it's negative cause then maybe I can go on believing it was just texting .. but if it's positive then there's no denying it. Cause in 20+ years I've only been with my H.
ReplyDeleteHow long does it take to get results ?? And please say a prayer for me . Hugs my friends . And thanks for always listening. .
Izzy,
DeletePrayers offered. A lot of us know the feeling. But it isn't YOUR shame to carry. I felt similarly to you the day I got tested. I went to an STD clinic and, there I was, amongst the 20-year-olds who forgot to use a condom that weekend. I told the nurse why I wondered if I'd contracted an STD and she was matter-of-fact and kind. They don't pass judgement, they just want people safe and healthy.
Results are pretty quick -- a few days to a week, I suspect.
Hang in there, Izzy. I'm sorry you've been down all week. What can you do for yourself after your appointment that might give you a boost? Be gentle with yourself. Take care of yourself.
Izzy, I can remember my visit to the Gyn just a month after dday. I had just had my annual and I had to schedule a specific appointment for testing. I was mortified. I can remember just sitting on the exam table and weeping, trying to tell the nurse what I needed. The nurse was incredible. She said "honey, I know its tough and you are feeling so embarrassed right now, but you are not alone and you have nothing to be ashamed of. We have women come in for this so much it just breaks my heart." and she told me I was gonna be OK, no matter how things turned out. Just remember that these are professionals, most of whom are very compassionate and they see this a lot. They are also required to keep your info confidential. Also know that if you are in the US you can go to Planned Parenthood or similar clinics and get this testing done with a greater degree of anonymity. Personally, I was glad my gyn knew what was going on because I he was incredibly compassionate. The way they handled my visit helped restore my faith in humanity just a little bit.
DeleteIt is good that you are doing it. I also made my husband go. We actually went to a planned parenthood that was far away from where we live. We made the trip together. We each had to meet with the doctor together alone. It was in the first two months after dday. I would say it was a pivotal experience. It was not easy at all but as my therapist said some of these things are an opportunity for my husband to prove himself. The fact that he cleared his scheduled, took it seriously, broke down crying, was anxious waiting for results and concerned most about me was revealing. The planned parenthood experience was amazing. They deal with so much and were so kind, professional and sensitive. For us it was a great option. I highly recommend it. And also they see a lot of different stories and are very educated on STDs and other concerns related to promiscuous behavior. I liked that I knew this doctor was asking my husband very pointed questions. Things I would not know to ask. My husband said he never wants to cheat again but going through the STD testing and having to be the reason I went was a new low for him and one he never wants to repeat.
DeleteThis is LLP, as a nurse, get the entire screening nothing left out HPV, Vaginal Herpes Type 1 and 2, HIV tell them you want everything. There are different types of STD screening panels. Also I repeated all the test in 6 months. I contracted vaginal herpes. Although not required I ask my OBGYNN to report it to the state and health department which she did. I then told the OW I contracted vaginal herpes. She started a crying type howling, then I told her the DOH will be contacting her to make a list of her sexual contracts to develop a plan of notification to them all. (this really wasn't true but I wanted some accountability). For the last three years I have gotten the entire screening again. I take no changes with my health. I tell my H - you could have killed me and if I ever get HPV, I might have to re-think things. I guess I use this as accountability club. My H is so nervous until I get the test results.
Deleteizzy, GYN's sadly see betrayed wives for testing frequently. I am grateful my GYN opened up & shared with me her H cheated when she was pregnant with their 4th child. I am so glad I told her and so relieved I got tested.
DeleteHi Izzy, I also went for an std test following d day and the practice were so supportive and kind. They really dont pass judgement and remember you’ve done nothing wrong. I don’t know where you are or how quick the results can be obtained but here in the U.K. it takes a few days and they can text the results to your mobile. Izzy your taking care of your well being and you will continue to do that whatever the results maybe. I went alone but maybe you have a trusted friend you could take along for some support. Thinking if you Izzy .. big hugs xx
ReplyDeleteThanks ladies. I'm sitting here waiting to be called back. With tears in my eyes I still can't believe he'd do this to me... to put me through this shame and hurt !!
ReplyDeleteI came alone as I only have 2 friends.. and both have their own lives. After the appointment me and my daughter are going for a pedicure ..I'll keep y'all posted. Many thanks
Hope you will be okay Izzy, how awful to have to go through this. We're all thinking of you.
ReplyDeleteizzy
ReplyDeleteI'm one of those people who have been given a std in the very beginning of my relationship with my h who was my boyfriend at the time. HPV required me to be hospitalized with IV fluids and antibiotics for several days. The lasting impact is that now I can possibly get cancer and just recently learned that because my h was the carrier way back then he too is at risk and so is the cow that he chose to have unprotected sex with. I'm so sorry you are having to do this. I know how humiliating it feels. Sending hugs and prayers for a negative result for you!
Big hugs coming your way, Izzy. I was grateful that my husband went with me and we were both tested at one appointment. I remember feeling ashamed that I was even there.. But as Elle mentioned above, it’s not our shame to carry.
DeleteEnjoy that pedicure with your daughter! ❤️
Thank you everyone ! Dr said everything looks normal and I'll get results in a few days. My Dr is the best. I cried as I gave him the short version of what happened. He said the shame wasn't mine it's my husband's.. he said that he sees this at least once aday.. and he'd like to knock the hell out of some of these husbands. He said they think the grass is greener on the other side but when they get to the other side they realize that the grass was actually better on their side and they were happier with their wives then with the other woman there with now.
DeleteThen during my breast exam he found a lump. When I was done he hugged me and told me his mother went through this to and he told me he'd pray for me.(So now im scared about the lump cause cancer runs in my family) I just had mammogram in May. I go back now for a diagnostic exam in Nov. I haven't told my H cause he didn't even ask how my appointment went. :( and my daughter was sick so we didn't go for a pedicure.
Also my husband hides that he sends his daughter and her lazy ass H money all the time..ugh.. she don't even ask anymore. She'll just text and say "I need 300 or 500 " if I see that she text him I'll ask if he's heard from her lately then he usually tells me. But this week he says he sent her 300. But she wanted 500 . But he don't have a receipt ?? This has gotten to be almost every week.... and it's also the only time she even talks to him. She didn't even call or text for his bday or fathers day.... we don't give my adult kids money .
Izzy,
Deleteyour doctor sounds wonderful. I hope you'll turn his words over and over in your brain until they feel like truth to you.
Your issues re. your husband giving his daughter money are legitimate but, honestly, I would shelve them for now. You've got bigger fish to fry. You need to focus on you and getting well. I'm sorry about the lump but let's all hope and pray, it's benign. Keep us posted, izzy.
You know the acting classes that I was supporting my husband in going to, even though it was triggering for me to have him out so often? I've just found out that, for some unfathomable reason, he started to have heart to hearts about his struggles with one of the single women on his course and I've found a series of texts 'where are you my love?' where it was obviously overstepping the mark. And, of course, he never told me. I sat him down and questioned him and it turns out he also went out for coffee alone with a workmate who was sad about her mother dying and they shared stories (his mother had an awful stroke.) These circumstances are how the emotional affair started! We couldn't have been clearer on inappropriate female friendships! His line now is that he realises that he never did any work on himself so is still messed up! Are these men from another planet? Has someone stolen his brain? I give up! (exasperation) As you said above Elle, time to focus on me and my own life and stop expecting him to be something he's not able to be. What a waste of life though, what a waste of the opportunity, the understanding and flexibility I was offering.
ReplyDeleteFOH
DeleteI'm so sorry for what you are going through.
This was my h. Always having inappropriate "friendships" with other women. He would be spending quality time with these bitches over me - and theses women could not see a problem with it either. Very mixed up people out there.
And I too, had given him years of loyalty, support and love and I too think - what a waste. There is something mentally wrong with these men - I'm certain, especially my h. Just remember, us wives have a big kind generous hearts and spirit, and as I keep telling myself daily as I am living through 7 weeks of our 2nd separation "his loss". We all react differently but I really hate my h at the moment, and despite the impending loss of financial security - I'm so glad he's out of my life. I just don't want to be around someone who has such low moral standards, lies constantly etc and can not see how much pain they put their wife and children through. If these "husbands" spent and invested more time with their wives, talking to them etc, the world of marriages may be a happier place.
FOH. I'm thinking of you and sending you many HUGS.
Gabby xo
FOH, proud of you for keeping your boundaries clear. Do something that is good for you - we are cheering for you!
DeleteOh and if I didn't say, of course he kept it from me and probably would never have told me. Brilliant! Just brilliant! I had to laugh when I saw her phone number started with the digits 666.
ReplyDeleteFragments of hope
DeleteI'm so sorry! I'm shaking my head and just baffled at his lack of understanding how his actions continue to pour salt into a very raw wound. I hope others can have better advice but for now I can just offer love and sending hugs! I'm hurting for you!
Thanks so much for saying that Theresa. This has been another big shake up but this time it seems to be as much for him as me (from some thoughts he sent me yesterday.) This time there is a very clear line in the sand that this is make or break time and he either gets his head sorted out or we just can't continue as a married couple.
DeleteIt is just impossible to understand and believe. And as you said you had clear discussions about what was an inappropriate relationship/behavior. This was not a mystery. You speak with clarity and are focused. More than ever it seems you can see to focus on you and invest in yourself. It speaks to what we read here that it is not about us and we cannot make someone else change. In the end they have to do the work.
DeleteFragments of Hope- so very sorry for this new pain. I had to do a lot of snooping with my husband pre Dday on a site called Bodyspace. In the year and a half that I tracked ever move, I learned a lot about so many lost souls. There were many men and women in their 40’s and early 50’s that were on their path to a healthy body and looking great, but they were so very lost and emotionally looking for any compliment to fill them up on a daily basis. People profiles said married but their daily chatter on posts was so so inappropriate. Some were freshly divorced and on the hunt, while others were on the verge of divorce due to their destructive online banter. I watched many post “well, I’ve been offline for awhile due marriage difficulties and we are getting a divorce.” It literally was like a soap opera unfolding. It was really sad. I felt very sorry for all of them. How do you move away from someone in your home emotionally to make room for a complete stranger? I think it’s easy to get attached and chat it up when all the stresses and warts of your life are removed and someone is kind and listening to you. I can’t fathom, but that is what I observed.
DeleteMy H was approaching 50 and lost. He got lots of compliments and it fed him on a daily basis. He got in deep with many and it was a twisted daily addiction. It eventually got to...hey I’m going to visit you in person and they did!
Ugh it’s so hard to understand. I just don’t need that amount of validation in life. Sure we all have moments where we feel like life is hum drum and less than exciting, but we don’t have it in our head to chat it up, have coffee or worse sleep with another to get out of a rut. There’s plenty of therapists that can get you out of a rut in a safer, less destructive method.
Hugs. Really. I know this heartbreak and it so awful.
I come here often and read the amazinh support, it gives me strength and encouragement, but today I am struggling.
ReplyDeleteI found out that the ex OW is now pregnant with her first child. She told my partner during the affair thay she never wanted children but apparently she is thrilled to be having a baby with her husband. It feels to me that her life has just got better since the affair. Mine has been more of a struggle.
I am almost 18 months from dday. We are getting on well. We talk frankly but I still hold in pain. My sister recently suffered a miscarriage and it seems so wrong that she, a good person, suffered this whereas the OW is glodong through life blessed and untouched. My husband doesn't know she is pregnant. Should I even tell him?
Hazel
DeleteI don't think it's a good idea to discuss anything current about this person. My experience hasn't been easy when I bring anything up present about her because it just triggers his guilt and shame and so we've cut her out of our lives and discussions other than triggers that are directly related to her driving by our house.
We decided together to do everything possible to keep the ow out of our lives. If they contacted my husband he has to tell me and we will decide together what to do. At this point we block the phone numbers. My husband wanted nothing to do with them. He felt that engaging with them would open the door for future contact. As far as me I was focused on following them on social media and worrying about what they were doing or wanting to know if they were happy. One day I realized it was miserable and focused on the wrong thing. These women already infiltrated my life and wasted too many years. I decided at that point I was not going to give them any attention even just looking up their FB page. In the end I want to put 100% of my focus and energy into myself, my kids and my marriage. I do understand your feelings of it not being fair. But in the end no one knows how happy she is or is not. People put on a front to the outside world and even those they are close to. Prime example my husband. I used to believe in karma but I do not anymore. In the end I have to do what is right for me and I go to bed each night knowing that I have been true to myself.
DeleteHazel, don't tell him.
DeleteFoh, Gabby has given you some great advice, I can relate to much of what Gabby has said these type of men do have some malfunction in their brains they cannot operate without their egos being stroked and nurtured constantly. Foh you may have to consider that this is what’s to come from your h unless he wants to change his behaviour but like Gabby i had enough of the pathetic attempts to change and kicked his sorry ass out a year ago now and to be honest my sanity has been restored, my self belief and worth has come back and I ain’t letting this man fuck me over again. I too hate my h at the moment I’m just playing nice to get what I need I.e financial mostly. I am in the process off carving out a new career change so if and when I get away from I will be able to stand on my own two feet and not depend on someone who is unreliable. Xxx
ReplyDeleteThanks Sam A, Teresa, Hopeful30. All the different things you've said to me and about your own stories add up to the fact that we need to focus on what is right and healthy for us. I think now that I've just completed an excellent course for depression and anxiety, I now realise how much my mental health has been put in jeopardy by my husband's inconsistencies and I can't let that happen again. The update is that my husband seems to now really understand that, acknowledges that - even though he's going to try and figure things out - with help his issues might be such that it would not be healthy for me to stay with him. He's on the couch (sleeping, not in therapy - yet!) indefinitely, has started a course on depression, has come up with more insights in the last few days than in the last four years and has put the acting course aside with the potential of giving it up altogether and is looking at counselling for himself and us. He knows it all might be too late. He says he frightens himself by not knowing why he does it. He sees parallels between his uncle's manic depression and compulsions (alcohol mainly) and his own modes. I need a clear head, to keep boosting myself and living a life I'm happy with and to make a future decision that doesn't allow me to have to live in this world of uncertainty and pain any longer. Thanks ladies xx
ReplyDeleteFoh, sounds like youve cracked it!!! Concentrating on you will give you less time to worry about your h .. win win : ) .. keep us posted xxx
ReplyDelete