Friday, November 10, 2017

Let's crowdsource some common questions about healing from infidelity

A few weeks ago, one of our betrayed wife-warriors posted a typical question. I've had a Frequently Asked Questions post in my "drafts" folder for, oh, about a year or more. But here's an idea. You wildly wonderful wife-warriors have such wisdom to share so I'm going to ask for your help. Let's make a list of those typical questions/concerns/fears and then let's respond to them. I'll compile them and we'll create a section where anyone can go and get the "Betrayal 101".

I'll start with some suggestions:
When will I get over this?
How do I get him to understand how painful this is?
How do I get him to talk to me about this?
Should I tell the OW's husband?
What should I tell our children?
I can barely function. How do I survive this pain?
What's the single best thing you've done to heal?
How do I find a good therapist?
How do I get my husband to go to counselling with me?
What do I do when I discover he's lied to me again?
How do I turn off the mind movies?
How can I ever trust him again?

Okay...that's a start. If you have some advice to offer, please do and let us know what question you're answering. I'll compile them as best I can and reproduce them on their own page.

Thanks...and let's help heal everyone who finds this site.

Love,







xo

40 comments:

  1. Great thoughts, Elle. I don't have any answers...yet...to the questions, but here are a few questions I have as well:

    *How do you accept that you will never know it all but know enough?
    *How do you let go of the fear...of not knowing the full past, or of what will happen in the future?
    *How do you let go of the need to check everything (e-mail, phones or any other snooping/spying things that maybe you did in the past or think about now)?
    *How do you give up that "control" by checking everything that is just an illusion anyway?
    *How do you give up that feeling of needing to "control" your spouse after the betrayal, knowing you can only control yourself?

    Thanks,
    Julie

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    1. The answer to most of these for me was realizing that I couldn't control what he chose to do after the affair, just as much as I wasn't in control of his behavior when he chose to have one.

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    2. Hi Kate. That is powerful. We don't have control.

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  2. Dear Elle
    This is wonderful. I don't feel qualified to offer advice so I am only offering my feelings and experiences from my point of view, coming from having a husband who was not remorseful and now separated.

    HOW DO I GET HIM TO UNDERSTAND HOW PAINFUL THIS IS?
    Unless your husband is truly remorseful and willing to go to counselling to work through HIS issues that led him to cheat, you may never get him to understand the pain you are experiencing. A husband with an entitled attitude who feels he has done nothing wrong, will not care for your feelings, he will only care for himself.
    If you can get him to MC a good counselor will hopefully be able to talk to him and not scare him off with pointing the finger and attacking him. As much as he's at fault and you want him to know that - This is counter productive and more than likely your husband will become defensive, turn away and nothing will be achieved. This will take time, months if he's willing to put in the work, and hopefully you have a MC that's good enough to talk through the issues and make him accountable for his actions which hopefully should have your husband starting to understand your pain.

    I CAN BARELY FUNCTION. HOW DO I SURVIVE THIS PAIN?
    Time. It's said all along here. Time. Take your time..this takes time...and this is so true.
    As much as you don't want to hear this, you just want this pain to disappear. It wont. It won't be an overnight cure. You must understand that.
    The pain is real and it's there for a reason. You care. You are hurting. The pain will lessen as the days, weeks, months years pass. It may not seem like it, but it does. I'm LIVING proof. I am almost 2 years post D Day 1, and am into my second separation which looks permanent, and I have survived, and I am living and the pain has lessened.
    It's natural to experience nothingness. Not wanting to do anything, feel anything. BUT. You need to find a reason for being. Keep busy. Keep your mind off this betrayal for as long as you can. Kids will keep you busy - I didn't want to put my kids through an emotional roller coaster with me, so I did all the usual things with the kids as I did before DDay.
    Now for you, some things to try.
    (Even if it's just something small. Don't let those bastards destroy any more of you. Little by little, small steps).
    Walk, meditate, help others by volunteering in any capacity, pat some animals, turn the music up and sing, or cry. Let it out. Talk to girlfriends, go do a boxing class, watch a FUNNY movie or something light hearted.
    And if you feel like your heart is racing -
    Just breathe. Concentrate on breathing, taking breathes in slowly and exhaling slowly. And if you can get by with having a day in bed to recharge your mind and body - do it. Just not too many. You don't want to get in a rut.
    Exercising helped me.

    Hugs
    Gabby xo

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  3. For me time is what it took to accept what happened and to slowly get past it. A little over 2 years now.
    He already know's how painful it is for you. He see's it on your face, in weight loss and just being around us. But he is also going through a lot of the pain too, at least my husband did.
    My husband hated talking about this because it showed how much pain I was in but he sat there and answered all my questions over and over. And I think I did that to see if he was telling me the truth. To see if his story changed. It wasn't easy pulling all the information out of him.
    I think that is a personal choice to make. I told the OW's ex fiance the day I found out. I told him through Facebook messenger. He tried calling me that day but I didn't recognize the number and didn't answer the call. He left a message but I didn't answer that either. A few months later when these women went after some friends of ours that were eating at the restaurant, I sent him a long email detailing everything that happened. The OW had run back to him and put all the blame on my husband among other things she said and should be in jail for.
    No--but my kids already knew because of the circumstances.
    Time again is your friend. I did a lot of walking outside with the dog and I journaled. Something about writing everything down helps. And I read this blog because I searched the internet for everything on affairs so I could understand what was going on in his head. I found out a year later what really happened when I started putting the pieces together in what these women really did.
    My husband had a therapist, she wasn't very good. I tried therapy but it wasn't for me. I did a lot of self care.
    For me the mind movies finally went away. If I think about it now I can deal with it and see it for what it really was for him. And he was a mess.
    Trust starts coming back with forgiveness.
    One thing I want to add to this. Don't concentrate on the OW like I did. It just brings more pain to your life. Cut her out like the cancer she is, I went as far as putting our pictures together to see which one of us was more attractive. And it wasn't her. Stay off social media and concentrate on you.
    Cathy

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  4. How about should I stay or should I go?

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    Replies
    1. Suspend judgment until the pain isn't quite as raw and you can enjoy yourself again. Then ask yourself if the new truth of your relationship at that moment is something you want to be a part of your future. You'll know then. I waited 2 years, best decision of my experience.

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  5. How do I accept that my husband paid for sex when my deep belief is that men who do that are evil criminals? I struggle with this despite things going pretty well. There are times when I look at him and hate him so much for using Asian women. When I asked him about that if a fit of rage, his response was, "they are the ones in the business". I flew into a bigger rage and spat back, "No, when you were looking for someone perfect for your perverted sex you got to choose your whore you bought and paid for." Just typing this raises my hate of him. (It passes. It passes.)

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    1. Try to remind yourself that whether you accept what he did or not won't change the fact that he did it.

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  6. How about "are there underlying factors that aided in his horrible choices ? " My H was abusing alcohol far worse than I ever realized at the time

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    1. Same situation here. My husband was drinking to get drunk almost every day and I didn't know that he had ever had more than one or two drinks. He has an hour commute home and would be able to somewhat sober up on the way home. Very scary to think that he drove like that and by some miracle, never hurt himself or anyone else. The OW was the bartender in the local dive bar. She let him drink for free and then when he was drunk enough, he would either head home or meet her in the bar bathroom for sex. Nice, huh? My question is the same as yours...does him being an alcoholic getting his "fix" from the slutty bartender make a difference in processing, accepting and healing from his affair? Our MC states that she believes that my morally high and might husband would not have engaged in an affair if alcohol was taken out of the equation.

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  7. How do you handle that ow that just won't go away. My h filed harassment charges and that helped for 4 months, she tried to reconnect with her sons death, he responded with prayers from both of us. Then 4 months later she wanted to meet up for drinks and no hard feelings. My h sent her back to the judge and he reminded her of jail time if she broke the restraining order and she left us alone for 9 months before she just had to look at his LinkedIn profile. We chose to ignore this attempt at attention and if she does try to reach out again, he will contact the attorney who will return her to the judge. I don't know what else anyone could do. Any suggestions?

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    1. Theresa,
      She probably needs to be sent to jail. The OW was always driving past our house too. We moved across the country to get rid of her and her friends. My husband threatened her with a restraining order to get her to leave him alone 6 weeks after dday while he was at his uncles funeral. His sister was with him when he threatened her. She then turned it around and told people that she threatened him with the restraining order and that he attacked her to cover up what they had all done. By this time she was back with her fiance, that she dumped to go after my husband. But this woman was so obsessed with my husband that even though she was back with her fiance and my husband threatened her with a restraining order 6 months earlier, she came to our house after finding out we were moving to see my husband and didn't expect to find me standing in the driveway with the dog watching her. She left very fast. My husband had just left for work and I had just found a message on my facebook from her friend to call her. They had gone after friends of ours that were eating in the restaurant trying to get information on us. About 10 months out from D-day I started to put the pieces together with what these women did and I contacted her and contacted her and contacted her. Her friend then came after me on social media to protect her but I kept after her until finally this past September I found out exactly what these women were doing and how they did it. She had threatened me with a lawyer and I begged her to take me to court. She quickly backed down after that because she really didn't have a lawyer and I had proof of everything. I don't recommend that anyone do what I did but, I did what I had to do to expose these women and their plan. These women all thought they had a high standing in this small reservation and what happened spread like wild fire and all of those involved were called an embarrassment to their nation. That includes the chief and his wife, who sent me a letter of restraint and laughed at how I reacted to this, and all of the women who were involved, plus the ones that gave her sympathy cards for not destroying my marriage. I don't regret the things I did to get to the truth but a part of me wishes that we could have gone to court too. The OW looks horrible now, not that she was a prize to begin with, but, you can see that her plan has taken a toll on her over 2 years out now. I hope that you are able to resolve the situation soon. Sometimes these women with an obsession are dangerously stupid.
      Cathy

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    2. My husband is not on any social media and any contact that was made by either ow we blocked the number or email address. One ow would use her friends phone and we blocked that too. The first time he replied to leave him alone but from my understanding she does this when she is drunk. So charming. In the end we decided he would show me the contact and we would block and the delete the contact together. I would think consulting with an attorney would make sense. I understand these women are crazy and determined. The one ow worked for 3-4 years to get my husband's cell number. She would find out where he was and just show up. He always refused to give his number out and his friends would not. Well one night she got dropped off at a bar and hung out and was unable to get a cab. In the end it was his fault and his responsibility not hers to our marriage and our family but that is some crazy stuff working for that long to get someone's number. I am sure it worked in her favor to fuel his ego or poor self esteem. I would never do that.

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    3. H30
      I like how you stated that these women are crazy and determined. Because that's what they were but, I think too that in both of our stories that these women have had practice doing this to other people. I know that when my husband told her that he didn't know how this happened and that he never wanted this, she told him that she planned the whole thing and then acted like it was nothing. We hadn't worked there very long when this happened and it was right after he was finished with all the drug testing that we had to do. So I have no doubt that they new exactly what they were doing and how to do it as far as trying to destroying our marriage. She had told him that her sister went after a married guy and when he left his wife for her she dumped him. Well come to find out it wasn't her sister it was her that did it. The woman that you are talking about must have had some obsession with your husband to keep it up for 3-4 years. Everything that each of us has gone through is crazy. The day my husband tried to end his life I went to the restaurant to confront these women, that's why I got the letter of restraint. My daughter and I were looking for him and thought that he might have gone there to sleep. My daughter called the manager of the restaurant and told her that she would be held responsible if something happened to her father because he was doing her job while she sat at home collecting her paycheck . The OW at this time was trying to get back with her ex fiance after she bought my husband a phone to try and keep it hush hush. The OW and the manager of the restaurant covered there ass very well with lies. In the end it came back to bit both of them.
      Cathy

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  8. How to understand his ability to calmly look into your eyes and lie?

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    1. Anon 12Nov
      Just like mine. Compulsive liar. Just makes me now wonder how many years he was lying to me??
      Too full of himself to ever admit he was in the wrong - for many things.
      Gabby xo

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    2. Understanding it won't make you feel better. When you realize that, you don't try so hard, and then can use that energy for moving forward in spite of it.

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  9. How to respond when asking him questions agitates him?

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    1. Anon 12Nov
      Mine was the same. Got angry and wouldn't answer my questions. I now live with the fact I will never get answers - still annoys the shit out of me if I dwell on it.
      Hugs
      Gabby xo

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    2. Mine did the same for 7 months. You have to decide, what you need to know to move on. He admitted to the affair 3 weeks after the ow contacted me but he stated she exaggerated the whole thing. Little by little the truth of his involvement came out, it was torture. I finally told him I needed for him to stop denying and minimizing his involvement. I couldn't begin to trust someone who continued to lie just to avoid his guilt. I stood my ground and told him that he needed to come clean or I was done. It took him a few drinks but he answered everything. I needed a time line and for him to admit to what I already knew. Once that happened it was like a weight came off. I didn't feel lied to anymore. Just make sure you don't ask questions that will hurt you more. Stay calm when you do, that was the hardest part for me. When my husband would see me emotional his guilt was worse and he would get defensive.

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  10. If I no longer feel love for my H because he cheated, despite all he's put into repair, despite his daily professions of love for me, will I ever love him again?

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    1. You might not, and that will be okay. When you realize that that's a viable option, you'll better know if that is the case for you.

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    2. Anon 11/13, this exact Q is where I'm at about 2.5 yrs post-DDay, with -- like you -- a "reformed" husband.

      K's answer really hit a nerve -- it speaks truth to me. "I may not love him again" is a viable option. I finally realized that a few months ago. And once I put "I may not" on the table next to "I may," "I should," and "I am destined to," a huge weight lifted from my shoulders. (And then I threw out "I should" and "I am destined to" because... ridiculous.)

      I am a practicing Catholic, so I figure I now have 3 paths for my life:
      1. Renewal of our marriage.
      2. Legal separation and a life of celibacy.
      3. Annulment and civil divorce, with potential for remarriage to someone else.

      I *want* path 1. But resentment keeps getting in the way, and I worry that I'm going to force path 2 or 3. That is why it has been so important for me to see that "may" or "may not" are CHOICES. In Books for the Betrayed section, Elle referred to a book called "The All or Nothing Marriage" and wrote: "for those who demand a lot AND ARE WILLING TO PUT IN THE WORK TO CREATE THAT, the result is a truly rewarding marriage. Not one that meets ALL our expectations but meets a whole lot of them." I've been thinking about this a lot. I may love him again, I may not. But I need to stop thinking about it as something that will just happen to me, and instead decide which one will bring more of what I want/need to my life -- and then work for it. That's what my H has done, and he chose love. My turn to choose now.



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  11. When will I finally realize it was a huge mistake and my marriage will survive esp when my husband keeps reminding me " it was a mistake not a pattern of behavior"

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  12. 'What's the single best thing you've done to heal?'
    Answer: lived in self-respect in every area of my life.

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  13. How do I get him to understand how painful this is?

    Therapy helped us I truly believe my marriage would not have survived without getting the help we needed. We started therapy within 1 week after DDay. I remember around 3 months after DDay I was sitting in therapy and I had hit a wall, I just said I’m stuck I don’t see how I will ever forgive and move on I don’t want to live my life like this. I was ready for a divorce, I had asked him all the questions that I needed answers to and since I had no more questions I stopped showing him my emotions. I was starting to feel like it was this big elephant in the room and we were sweeping it under the carpet. Our therapist gave us this to work on

    1. See emotion as opportunity to connect
    2. Identify the emotion
    3. Understand it from your Wives perspective
    4. Apologize / what can I do to help you.

    She told my husband to think of an oreo cookie he was scratching at the cookie part what he needed to do was dig deep into the creamy center and have empathy and really feel my pain. She told him if you don’t do this she will never get over this! She was so right. I started talking to him when I was having a bad day or if I was getting a trigger. I woke him up in the middle of the night to hold me after a nightmare. I shared my mind movies, I no longer cried in the bathroom I cried in front of him whenever I needed to. I let him see the raw pain I was in. I’m 22 months now, and I will always be very open with my emotions. We are in a much better place, he has changed so many things about himself our marriage is so much stronger then it was before the affair.

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  14. -When will I get over this? You may not entirely ever get over it, though it will become less of a part of your life with time. That will be good enough to feel better, and you will be surprised by that just as I am.
    -How do I get him to understand how painful this is? You don't; he doesn't have the capacity to empathize with your pain because he warped his thinking into justifying this behavior in the first place. But he can try... and that will be enough to feel better, I promise.
    -How do I get him to talk to me about this? Go to a therapist as a couple. If that doesn't get him to listen, or he won't go, he'll never talk about it.
    -Should I tell the OW's husband? Sure; but only if you'd be grateful to be told if you were in his shoes and he found out before you.
    -What should I tell our children? Wait and decide if you're going to be able to stay married or not. Once you know that answer you'll be more clear headed and know just what to say.
    -I can barely function. How do I survive this pain? The pain will change over time, and so you survive knowing that the passage of time is enough to make you feel better. Soon, enough time passes and enough comes to past as a consequence of what happened that you suddenly realized that by waking up each day since you found out you've survived.
    -What's the single best thing you've done to heal? I waited to file for divorce until I had given him a chance to change, but spent that time figuring out exactly how I felt and what I wanted regardless of whether he was able to. Coincidentally, I came to terms with the fact that I no longer wanted a life with him regardless of what he did or didn't do around the same time I found out he was still cheating. It made walking away easier and so freeing.
    -How do I find a good therapist? As your network. You'd be surprised how many women are impacted by infidelity and have a good recommendation.
    -How do I get my husband to go to counselling with me? You make it a condition of continuing the marriage and living arrangements. I made it a condition of me giving him a chance but we were still separated until I was ready to be around him (it was a year, and then 6 months living together again).
    -What do I do when I discover he's lied to me again? Look up the "180", and do it. It works and keeps you stabilized while more revelations are happening. It helps to know that each time something comes out, you likely get closer to finally knowing everything you need to know.
    -How do I turn off the mind movies? reframing the picture based in reality- it was probably a creepy hotel, she probably had cellulite, and it wasn't that good anyway.. Because no matter what the fantasy that was played out, cheating on your spouse is wrong and your body knows it no matter how warped your thinking has become.
    -How can I ever trust him again? You may not ever fully trust him, or a future partner again. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It keeps you safe to learn from your experiences, remember? Hot stove and all that? But soon the amount of reserved trust will get to a small enough proportion that you trust him more than you don't trust him and that's enough to feel better. I promise.

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  15. Hi Elle

    I wanted to let you know that I am planning to help out with some of these response. But things are bit hectic for me now. So it will probably be about a week or so

    Love and support sisters
    Becky

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  16. So this is the best infidelity 101, getting from crisis to trust, healing, and connection, that I have ever heard. I wish every therapist understood things this way. Terry Real is wonderful in his understanding of couples, especially patriarchy and entitlement ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTxl79KQMgY

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  17. I came here a broken woman full of self-doubt. When D-day was less than a week ago when I found BWC For those who have not read my story I️ am three and half years of R with a H who turned out to have some hate, revenge and resentment issues toward me that he shared with a psycho kindergarten teacher for two and half years. Oh, and a lot of lying about spending. Oh, it was a super fun to get checked for an STD then found out why my twat itched off and on for two years. It turns out that there were a lot of shitty chapters to this story of deceit that I️ discovered 8 months after D-day. I️ was even more deeply hurt, angry and terrified. Am I still cynical? Yes, but it not as harsh as it once was.

    Here are some smart things I did and I feel damn proud of doing.

    When will I get over this?

    It is up to you. If you are already damaged from a dysfunctional past it takes longer. Takes longer because you end up dealing with that too as part of the healing process. I thought my childhood was normal but I was wrong. My therapist said I was abused.

    I committed myself to my health and well-being. I STOPPED! Fooling myself that my marriage really didn't suck. Fooling myself by staying too quiet. Fooling myself by accepting less. Fooling myself by not demanding more. Fooling myself that I didn't deserve better. Fooling myself by doing things for others I didn't want to do.to So my needs and wants went immediately to the head of the line. Being that vulnerable is not a life sentence. Invest in yourself. Be a hard-on killer, a boulder that doesn’t move. It is up to you to what happens next, not him. This is not your San Andreas - it is all on him. However you feel or act is normal post betrayal. Don’t doubt yourself.

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  18. How do I get him to understand how painful this is?

    You don’t. You can try to get revenge. I️ was upset all the time and nobody called me out on it, so I exploited the betrayal in order to get him to feel my hurt through numerous torture methods, fear factors, boxing him in, physical rages and the likes. I was just repeating the pain to myself. I created post betrayal drama but he never felt like a bag of kittens on the way to the river.

    Should I tell the OW's husband?

    Yes, he has a right to know. Let the OW ride in her Karma bus after your car runs over her with the no contact rule.

    What should I tell our children?

    Be honest accordingly to their emotional age. I️ insisted my pigskin man in tuna town call each one of his children and apologize. If you remain silent then your kids can come up with all this other shit in their head, never tell you because they want to protect mom and take several years to fester into a person that you don’t know, is uncontrollable and needs serious therapy. Protect your children always no matter what. Let them see you angry but not crazy. Let them see you cry but know it is not their fault. I grew up in an affair home a duration of 7 years.

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  19. I can barely function. How do I survive this pain?

    I decided I was going to be a firewall between my broken heart and his decision to go dinky dunking a mentally ill permanently physically disabled desperate woman. I had to use coping mechanisms. Some good and some not so good. I️ learned with help of many women of BWC; especially Elle; I learned to become those boundaries. The phrases "No, I’m not going to do that" ; “ I’m irritated because.....”; “I️ don’t like ......” ; I️ changed my mind” ; should be tattooed on his chest backwards in bold letters with sharp painful needles so every time he looks in the mirror he can see my boundaries and see his consequences.

    Learn to lower your standards for a wide array of judgmental shit from the entire world. My trash is spilling over to the floor. The title of my menu "Screw It: Those chicken tenders at the gas station look good.” My sheets have not been changed in a month. The dishwasher needs emptied. He has no clean clothes. Whatever you can no longer care about gives you space to deal with the bigger picture. Only have high standards around you. The way you treat others. Yourself. Your kids.

    You have to grieve a lot of shit, sometimes silently in your head and sometimes for the whole crap coaster of life that you lost. It seems to be less sharp with time. I also deliberately waited to process some information when I had more information to make decisions right for me. Expect push back. Woman with self-esteem and know what they want are scary to others.

    What's the single best thing you've done to heal?

    I got into therapy right away.

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  20. How do I get my husband to go to counselling with me?

    Boundaries, don’t let him blow-off you off. He is not the smartest, most amazing sexy man, he is a selfish asshole of the universe. This is a clear indication he is willing to do anything to deserves a second chance. If he doesn’t that is a red flag, he is not owning his own shit. Do not accept that your H knows what is best for your marriage, what YOU need or don't need, in this process. Don’t allow him to put his own shame and hurt, because of his actions, ahead of what you need. He did that during the A and he doesn’t need to do it again so don’t let him.

    What do I do when I discover he's lied to me again?

    Holding onto hope is dangerous. “If only he would this, then I could that" became a real liability. It took me a long time to see him as he is. It is hard to lose a positive opinion about someone I love. When I was able to separate that false reality from his behavior (deceitful), I was able to evaluate the situation more clearly. The two pieces of advice help me move past hope were "You don't have to be 100% out of hope for divorce to be the right choice or be 100% sure for staying to be the right choice. Listen to your gut.

    He has to fix himself. He needs to answer questions or make your life easier. He should be a shoulder to cry on. He needs to realize this is more than a lovers quarrel where you start off where you left off. This is a total destruction of you, your marriage, and him. Just ask him to prove himself to him. He doesn't get to ask for anything. Owning his own shit is taking responsibility. Not blame shifting, not deflecting and not excusing. Excuses are lies.

    "I was drunk" (your choice, lie)
    "I couldn't help it" (denial, your choice, lie) "She/he/they made me so angry that.." (blaming) "It was just once" (rationalizing) "It didn't mean anything" (minimizing) "It's not a big deal" (minimizing) "Get over it" (minimizing) "if they don't know it won't hurt" (rationalizing)

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  21. How do I turn off the mind movies?

    Sometimes it just sucks. Yell “fuck it” into an empty room. In the next room say a prayer. You just get by everyday but it lessens with time. Most of the time I️ thought about sticking a porcupine up both their asses. Nothing except time worked for me.

    How can I ever trust him again?

    I️ never ever will and that is best for me. I opened an account with a financial advisor. This is crucial, because it meant that I had cash building interest that the H couldn't touch. My money went into an account that was not considered a marital asset. He can’t touch it. He proved he has the ability put my back to a wall, be Houdini and doggie style in the driveway to my heart. That was enough for me.

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  22. Elle, it took me a week to form these answers. This site and you have done so much and changed my life. All the woman who cared, gave their thoughts changed my life. Love to you all.

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    1. Those answers are awesome. I'm copying them all into another document and will create a page when I'm able to organize all the answers. It will be invaluable, I think, to the newly betrayed who find themselves here in such pain. Thank-you for taking the time to put it all down. And thank-you for all you do on this site, LLP. This site is a creation of all the women who share their pain and their love and their hard-won wisdom and their compassion.

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  23. LLP for the win today! I enjoyed the shit out of your responses. Thank you.
    And thanks especially for this: "You don't have to be 100% out of hope for divorce to be the right choice or be 100% sure for staying to be the right choice. Listen to your gut." Really what I needed to hear just days after learning my divorce was final. Hugs , LLP
    PS Elle, I have (not surprisingly) a ton of responses to the Qs rolling around in my head. I will try to get them out here soon.

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  24. How do you learn to trust again while staying vigilant? My discovery of the affair was by chance. A slip on his part. After 16 yrs together and on and off affairs, I only discovered the recent one at the time. If the slip had never happened, I would have never found out. I'm totally for 2nd chances but I sure as hell won't let myself be blindsided and taken by surprise again. Ours was the "happy couples who cheat".

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