Good morning I haven't posted in a while but have been reading all your posts and getting inspiration from all of you. I'm working hard everyday on my insecurities and self worthlessness. H reassures me everyday how much he loves me and is sorry and this will never happen again. I am struggling with believing that. It's killing me that knowing that's the only thing left on moving forward is to BELEIVE him. I'm scared everyday to loose him?? He doesn't seem to understand why I have this fear when he would paint a picture for me if I asked him to. How can I put through my head were good and have a stronger marriage today? Why can't I move past that fear? He is being patient and gentle with me. I feel deep down in my heart it's okay to move past this and believe but then I get stopped?? I need advice please...I need help from any of you that has had this stick stuck in a wheel. I need to move forward as today right now my marriage is amazing and my husband is just as amazing. We are stronger and our communication is better then ever. Xoxo
Continued... My reason for being scared to believe him is he cheated on me when I never would have ever imagined he could do so. Our story in a nutshell...he was sexually unhappy for YEARS and has approached me many times about this and I just ignored. He was never unhappy with us as a couple, a family aND our life together. He felt I was not attracted to him and it was hopeless especially after opening up to me several times over the years. He never went searching he never asked to do this it was HER that came on to him and put him in a very bad place and he was weak very weak. I do believe this to be true and I regret everyday not taking his talks about being sexually unhappy over the years more seriously. I also beleive when he tells me this would not have happened if he was not sexually unhappy.
Trulyheartbroken, Not to diminish how devastating betrayal is because we all know how much it is. But my therapist used to tell me that if I had a reaction that seemed out of proportion to a situation or if I just couldn't "reason" my way out of something that it was probably "old stuff" -- meaning it was something I'd absorbed long ago and it was deeply embedded. And I wonder if that's the issue with your feelings of self-worth and your insecurities. I wonder if, rather than the betrayal triggering that in you, that they were there all along and betrayal simply confirmed what you have long believed about yourself. And that's stuff you have to work on because your husband can tell you a zillion times that he loves you and he wants to be with you and he'll never do this again and on and on. But if, deep down, you don't think you have worth, then none of his words will make any difference. I had to mine a whole lot of my past (that I thought I was long over) because my husband's cheating triggered so much "old stuff" in me -- my terror of abandonment, my feelings of shame... But, in a way, the betrayal opened the door for me to really deal with that stuff in a way I wouldn't have otherwise. You might find the same thing.
Trulyheartbroken, I understand so much of what you’ve expressed. I also have a very remorseful husband who has done so much to change. We’re over 2 1/2 yesrs from D-day. I’ve accepted what happened but if I spend too much time thinking about it there’s still that icy feeling in my chest of “this really happened to me”. It goes away quicker than it did in the beginning, my tears are fewer, and my anger doesn’t hang around nearly as long as it used to. My husband was also unhappy with our sex life. I was busy raising kids and working and I didn’t recognize it was a big deal. I didn’t know that physical affection and sex equaled love and validation to him. I also didn’t know how much his childhood and what he saw modeled at home affected his ideas on relationships. He had a lot of issues that he never talked about and I just assumed we had normal issues that married couples had and we woukd get through them. Instead he started to use porn, it escalated to what we both now see as an addiction, and ended with him having an affair with a co-worker. I NEVER dreamed my husband would be “that guy”. He was the one guy who I finally felt had chosen me. He was a “good guy”. He was going to be the one who stayed. As Elie mentioned to above, some of our reaction is linked to old “stuff”. I’m still wading through my own. I do know that I’ve always had self esteem issues when it came to relationships. I dated a series of not so nice guys and was in a relationship that was emotionally abusive. Outwardly, I always seemed to have it together but inside I never really felt worthy. My husband’s infidelity brought me right back to that awful feeling that I wasn’t “worth someone who would stay faithful”. So I have to continue to work on me. Early on, I had to keep reminding myself that he chose to cheat, despite whatever issues he had. There was nothing I did to cause it. Neither of us was a perfect spouse to the other, we just handled our reactions to that differently. I do believe he had unresolved issues from childhood, but his choices and his actions are his to own. And I respect him for working to uncover and try to resolve them. As far as our relationship goes, it’s easier for me to believe in my husband as more time goes by and his actions are consistent. Hugs to you! I hear you and I understand how you feel. ❤️
Trulyheartbroken, As part of some of the work I've been doing on myself with regard to understanding my core beliefs and the awful things i felt about myself as part of what my husband did, I have had to understand that much of my hurt was that I believed myself to be helpless, unloveable, incapable, pathetic, inadequate, that I was saying these things to myself (and much had come from my mother's criticism growing up). I was calling myself these things beyond what my husband did. One of the exercises in the book I had was self-forgiveness. The exercise asked me to list what i called myself after one of the traumas of the affair, then recognise I was not those things, then give examples of how I was loveable, capable etc. A kind of rewiring. From what you say, it sounds as if you may be feeling guilty for not listening to your husband's concerns and responsible in some ways for what happened. My husband was a nice guy as well but couselling has revealed that his poor self-image and self-hatred was what caused the affair, nothing else. He felt both entitled to making himself feel better at the same time as feeling that no-body could truly be interested in him. These types of mixed feelings could have been at play in your husband. He dealt with a confusing situation very badly instead of getting professional help. In my case another reason I could not relax even though my husband was a nice guy and seemed to be doing most things right was that some things i needed post affair were not happening and that my husband hadn't done the work on himself to truly re-engage, it was surface level. These are some ideas. It is only now that the counsellor is bringing up longstanding issues and that my husband is engaging with me on a more authentic level that I am happier with our progress (this is four years later, with some recent - not affairs but deception and inappropriate friendships.)
I had a big sigh when reading your reply. Thank you Dandelion for your inspiring word's. I chose to stay with him because he out of all relationships in my life is the one. He is my heart and I have found forgiveness and understanding to his terrible actions. I have started searching deep down to what elle has said and work with that. I beleive that may be the issue I'm having. It's not him anymore. I just don't want to loose him. Despite his decision to be unfaithful he is still a remarkable man and I am still feeling lucky to have him. People make mistakes and mistakes can be forgiven. I know there is hope as long as I don't stay stuck to long... I have fallen in love with him all over again. Crazy I know!!!! I found his tickle spots I never knew he had after 10 yrs of being together. I found the intimicy I deprived him of and I'm over the moon happy with him. The butterflies are coming back and I have opened myself sexually with him. Our marriage is better then ever although i need to get past that FEAR. Why didn't I do this before when he approached me so many times of his unhappiness?? Damn life got in the way and I always felt my husband was okay he didn't need me as much as our 5 teenagers, house work, job etc..I had put him on the bottom of my "to do list" of keeping happy. I just ASSUMED he WAS good. :( I regret this everyday. Can't go back only move forward from now on. He got lucky in a way, he is now my number 1 priority and definitely not on the bottom of my list. I took him for granted and he's now getting spoiled and I'm loving this!! There is hope to the newly betrayed, if there's love there's hope! Xoxo
Trulyheartbroken, I'm a little late to the conversation here, but I've been thinking about you and your post. SO much reminds me of me early on and I think you are still early one right? I can feel you trying sooo very hard to fix it from here. I can practically feel you doing the heavy lifting, like watching a body builder heaving up a 500 lb barbell. I am saying this gently because this was me too, but perhaps you are rushing through this? Rushing to forgive, rushing to put this behind you, rushing past the pain and hurt, rushing to be all better again. I'm so glad your husband is stepping up and being gentle and patient with you. You can be gentle and patient with you too. As Elle suggests, when we are stuck or extra hurting over something, its usually about more than just what is happening now. Give yourself time to feel that and figure out what it is. You don't have to, nor is it possible to fix everything right this second. And i recognize that post betrayal, you both have to build a narrative that helps you heal and move forward. What I am reading in your story above is you taking too much (and by too much, I mean any) blame for his cheating. Many people live on both sides of a sexless marriage and manage not to cheat. You were both unhappy and under-served in the marriage. You both contributed to that. i definitely contributed to what was wrong in our marriage. But I was never responsible for his choice to cheat. It is a shitty coping strategy for dealing with pain. Your husband made a shitty choice and needs to own responsibility for it. It sounds like you are both colluding to spread the blame around and more of it is coming on you and the OW and less on him. He was weak and vulnerable and yes the OW hit on him, but he was the one who acted. She didn't force him (as far as I know). When you are trying to rebuild a life, it is so much safer to place anger and blame on the party who is not in a relationship with you, the OW. I think that is why she is a target for so much of our anger and loathing. I'm trying my best to point out that I feel you are shouldering blame for his cheating and later, when you are not in crisis, I've got to fix this mode, this may rear its head in the form of anger and resentment and I don't want that for you. And I will own here that my thoughts are as much about my own stuff and experiences as anything. I just see so much of myself and my early response in your words and wanted to share my thoughts. Truly, you have a chance to reinvent your marriage and relationship and you are well on your way. Take some time out of the couple repair work to take care of just you.
SS1 Thank you for your time and advice. You are an amazing woman to have written this to me. Means a lot. I just want to be happy and move forward. I am still sad and still have tough days but I prefer my good days. I don't feel I'm taking blame for what he did but I do take some blame for my broken marriage pre-cheating. That has helped my forgiveness. I still look at him at times with such hurt but the love I have and the love he shows helps the hurt not last as long. I'm holding on to the Hope and not letting go. I want to believe he could never do this to me again. I am taking care of myself as much as I can... Xoxoxo
So love this imagine and quote....perfection. I thought of you ladies a lot last night and this morning as I was having a moment. Nothing specific happened, I think just one of those days where I am just so damn tired of it all. And coming here and reading this, knowing I am not alone, knowing you are all there to lift up and support - it helped me move through it. I think I am just feeling that feeling of trying harder than it seems he tries, wanting to talk more and move forward and tired of having to lead it all, tired of accepting the crumbs - or trying to figure out what those crumbs are. Trying to push down the hate I feel for what he did and the hurt he caused and reminding myself that it is okay to hate what he did and it's okay not to hate him as a person...it's okay so still love him. And the hate that i feel for OW...sometimes it is too much. So I let myself cry, I reminded myself that I am OK today, and no matter what I will still be okay. And that I am not alone. That's when I came here and read this. Thank you Elle. Thank you everyone.
Oh Jules. We've been there. Lots of us still are there. Those feelings are perfectly normal. You don't have to always take the high road in your thoughts. You can let yourself indulge in a little rage toward two people who hurt you through their own shitty choices. And you can let yourself love someone capable of hurting you that way -- to separate out what he did f from who he is. But it's also important that you're doing what you're doing -- really figuring out the imbalance in the relationship to ensure it's equitable and that you're not doing the heavy lifting while he sits back and lets you.
Jules, I, too, have recently had one of those days. I empathise with much of what you've stated, especially the part about trying so much harder (or just being consistent!) than your husband and always being the one to take the lead. It's exhausting and frustrating. I wish I could say it makes me feel better to hear you're having a similar experience as I am, but it doesn't. I really feel for you, Jules.
I've spoken to my MC about both of those concerns (several times, 1/2 of the time while my husband just sat there and didn't respond) - also about how my H doesn't seem to appreciate the love and care I show him. She suggested I back off, just stop. That was difficult for me because in my mind, if I back off, that means I've given up. I don't want to give up. I don't want to stop trying. My MC explained I wouldn't be doing either of those things. She said if my H doesn't seem to acknowledge or appreciate what I do, why should I keep trying so hard to show him? For whatever reason, he is not able to SEE. She stated he needs individual counseling to help him with a lot of burried stuff about himself - that he is not able to figure out on his own. She has said this to him at least 3 times. Has he followed through? I think every woman reading this knows the answer.
It's been almost 2 weeks since I've stopped trying so damn hard. It was extremely difficult at first, but it's not so much any more. He has noticed. He hasn't said it directly, but he is more interested in me. I'm not sure how I feel about that...probably b/c he's still not trying hard every day like I have for over a year. It's difficult to get out of that mindset... D day was Sept 3, 2016.
You're right; we need to remind ourselves we're okay today. We're taking care of ourselves, so we'll be okay. ��
Thank you Elle. As you know, so much of what I feel is around my fears since they still work together. And as much as my husband is doing, he is still not very transparent. I worry...I feel anxiety every day...and I struggle to trust, to hope, to know what to say or do. I am scared. And then I come here, feel less alone and then more scared. Because so many of you are trying to heal just like me, with the same feelings, but you have husbands who cut off contact, are transparent, do everything you ask or reassure you every day...and there is STILL pain and fear and anger and hurt. And then ...then....then I get really mad. For all of us who are we perfect? No. But did we have an affair? NO. Yet here we are, putting on our brave faces each day for our kids or our jobs or our husbands or just for ourselves and do out best to get through day without as much pain as before. I am just struggling...Thanks for listening!
Jules You are not alone in your doubts. Even though I have a h that appears to be transparent and so remorseful for his past behavior, it doesn’t just take away the doubts that he could still be cheating but just being more careful. I’m one of those that have those doubts when my h travels for work. He tainted that for me by taking her on a one day trip to ‘keep her from telling me’. That’s what he was telling himself about that trip, but she was using it to black mail him into continuing the affair. When she did finally spew the truth it was filled with her truth which was in my h opinion her delusional desire for him to love her like she did him. This is what I struggled with for the first two years. My h has been consistent and transparent with his phone and tries to stay in contact but the truth is if he chooses to do that again as painful as it was/is for him and me, I finally had to accept that their wasn’t anything I could do about it and I will have to cross that bridge if I come to it. I’m sorry if you think it’s easy for those that have a truly committed h but it’s not. It’s still very fragile for both of us. However we’re still doing everything we can to save our marriage. He’s looking for a job that doesn’t require as much travel but the truth is that engineering is a very much travel to the project job. I’m hoping that your h will step up to the plate and really show you how much he values your relationship. Hugs
Jo...Thank you for your reply. How do you "back off? I have been trying that some by not bringing up long talks...trying to just live, and lovr5, and be...but sometimes that is hard for me as I am a talker. But when you describe stopping..what does that look like?
I agree with what Theresa says. I do not think I will ever not have doubt. Of course that is on a continuum. My husband does not work with either ow or have contact. He says he is transparent but I honestly feel like if he wants to have an affair or let that happen he could do that. And even more so since he was not tech savy at all back then but now know much more partially from what I have told him about the use of technology. There is no shortage of women that would be willing too. He has been great about telling me of anything odd or that even he thought crossed the line with others I do and don't know. He tells me it would be reflected in how he acts with and around me. He is an open book now and it is different. He was not mean but just more closed off. I have thought a lot about this and even if I were to leave him I think I would feel this way about any other man I started a relationship with too. I really began to focus on me and what I can control. I like to talk a lot more than my husband and sometimes I have to find other outlets. I write a lot, work out, walk, work in the yard etc. All of those things help me. I used to like watching tv, movies or read but I feel like every book I pick up has affair/betrayals. For me I had to decided what I wanted and set those boundaries and expectations. I would suggest figuring out what you need. Do you need him to change jobs. Maybe not soon but can you put a plan in place. Or be very specific about what he needs to do. We honestly started off with him calling me over his lunch and on his way home from work. And if his schedule changed at all even for work he had to text me. And when he would do something with friends or go out of town it was more detailed. At first it was odd since he never lived his life that way and I even found it overwhelming. But in time it became habit and he seeks me out. The other agreement we have is if I want to talk to him or need anything I can call him at any time no matter what. He said he cannot enjoy himself if he is worried about me stressing out about him. He has said he let me down for too long and he wants to make it better. This came with over 2 1/2 years of work and I don't anticipate the work slowing down. I feel communication and being vigilant in fostering it is critical if we want to stay together.
Hi, Jules. I'm a talker, too. I get that! For me, "backing off" or "stopping" means: -not initiating serious conversations, like asking him how he feels or how he thinks things are going in our relationship -not texting him a heart, kiss face, or an "I love you" in the middle of the day -not texting/calling him to see how his day is going (like you, the OW works for the same organization as my H) -not writing brief love notes or "steamy" sexy notes
I backed off on how often I do little things I used to do, even before his affair, to show him I love him and am thinking about him. What really made me step back and think was when I shared with my MC (my H was there, too) that for several random days in a row this past summer, I sent him a daily text saying I loved him and why I loved him. He told me he thought that was "overkill," and he didn't understand why I would text him something like that in the middle of his work day. Why couldn't I just tell him in person, he asked. That really hurt. There I was, again, bearing my soul...taking time to share an intimate moment with him...letting him know I still loved him and wanted to be with him... and he tells me it's "overkill."
I have not cut myself off from my H. We have conversations, even though he believes most of them are forced and "unnatural." We spend time with our teenage children. We go out at least once a week, sometimes just us and other times with other couples.I seem to have more fun than him. We still have sex, but not as often as we used to. Sometimes I initiate it, other times he does. I'm lucky if we have sex once a week. (Hope that's not TMI.)
I feel like I have said all I can, and I continue to show him - although differently now - daily that I'm STILL here.I'm still working on myself. I'm still working hard for us. HE needs to work hard, too. He said I was trying too hard and almost forcing things to happen. So, I stopped, or perhaps I paused...
I'm not happy about backing off, but I don't know what else to do. I feel like I'm approaching a crossroads, but I'm not as anxious about that as I thought I would be. I'm gaining clarity in what I want again and what I'm willing to accept and also not put up with.
I wish he would accept individual counseling so he and I may both move forward, hopefully together. I wish he would call his physician, as our MC suggested, to see if he's suffering from depression. I can't make him do those things. He has to want to do them. Man, I wish he would! Since he won't, I choose to focus on myself and try not to worry about if he's accepting or rejecting my repair attempts. It's not easy, and I think it's freakin ironic that he had the affair but I'm the one working hard to rebuild our marriage. What else can I do, though?
Jules, Backing off is giving him a taste of what life will relaly be like without you and the emotional support you provide and that he takes for granted. This was true with my ex. He really didn't start to wake up until I stopped doing all the emotional lifting for him. So - stop trying to fix him or the marriage. One person alone can't fix a marriage. There's a great little book an Amazon Kindle called "Detach and Survive" and is a guide for wives of mid-life crisis men. Basically, you switch your focus form him to you. Stop love bombing him, if you are doing that. The love notes and stuff tell him that you are still available to him no matter what he does or how he treats you. You work on you. Find a physical activity that you love. Always wanted to take up racquetball or horseback riding? now is the time to join a league or get some lessons. Don't ask him if it is ok or invite him along. Just do it for you. Have you always done his wash? Let him know that its time for him to pitch in and do his own (and while you are at it, look at how work may be divided along gender lines in your home and mix it up. You mow the lawn this time and he can vacuum or get the groceries. Do something different). Work on yourself emotionally. See a therapist. Read Brene Brown and Pema Chodron and whatever else grabs your eye. Meditate. Start doing things socially. Look on meetup for a dog walking group or photography group or quilting group. Whatever floats your boat. Go out and make new friends. Make your own life. Take painting classes. Connect with old friends. Invite them to lunch or out for coffee. Make your own plans. Start living your own life. Work n your self spiritually. Is that getting back to your church or finding a new one? Is that making sure you commune with nature? Dancing? What feeds your soul? Work on yourself economically? Are you dependent on him financially? Do you work or have income? How can you change that? Do you have visibility into all the banking and credit cards, retirement accounts? Make sure you can see what is going on. Start your own savings if you don't have one now. And as far as sex and that kind of intimacy goes... If you want to have sex, have sex. If you don't then don't. But make sure you are doing what feels right for you. Something interesting happens when these guys see that you are off living an amazing life in spite of or without them. And something amazing happens for you too. You get your life back and realize that you don't need him in order to be happy. Then you get to decide if gets to be in your life or not. I hope this helps.
SS1 - you are such an amazing blessing. Thank you -- again -- for saying just what I needed to read.
I stumbled on to Jayson Gaddis in one of my many searches after DDay. One of the things he says is just what everyone else is saying. I figured if a guy was saying it then it must have truth. Strange thing ... I stopped talking. And you know what ... he noticed. For the first time in I don't even know how long ... he noticed. Like the silence was so foreign to him that he finally noticed.
I've learned to be more quiet ... now I need to learn to stop fixing. But most importantly I need to start learning to focus on me without asking for permission from ANYONE to do so. Funny how this has taught me that I need to institute boundaries on so many people and things in my life.
Thanks for all the replies, Ladies. So much of what I needed to hear. I'm trying to hard to balance the backing off and focusing on me with keeping things moving forward. However, I feel like this is almost a necessary part right now. I have my fears...but I always have fears. I want to still be kind and loving to my husband, but I also want to just...back off. For all he has done that was wrong, I was not perfect - none of us were. We know that and I am not making excuses...however there are parts of our relationship that are still healing just here at home. Meaning - I know, I remember what I was like for years. Again - that is not an excuse for my husband to do what he did and I don't feel he blames me for that, however, I know that he is trying to heal and learn where to trust me, too. That is mostly at home. I used to be unpredictable, rude, short, unhappy, demanding...many things that I know he is "waiting" to see if I have really changed. I know in the past just about the time he settles in and thinks we are in a good place, BAM I hit him with something all over again. And many times that was/is necessary - I am the "lead" when it comes to relationship stuff. But - I'm tired of that and I'm tired of those feelings that come from it ALL the time. I hope if I can focus on getting back to me and some things I enjoy, if I can still come here when I need support, but also maybe back myself off incessant Google searches for any one thing that will tell me it will all be okay (we all know that doesn't exist) and if I can focus on being kind and loving towards my husband, but also my kids and most importantly MYSELF (I get short with my kids, too, when I have not been very kind to myself...not good)...I hope I can get back to some REAL joy this holiday season and after. Nothing has to be solved today. Nothing has to be fixed today. And no one thing I am doing or not doing will change a decision my husband will make in the end anyway.
Does this make sense? Am I rambling all kinds of crazy just to make myself feel better? I value you all and your opinions so much...thoughts?
Thank you so much Elle. What you said has truly opened up a door I had never thought of. I have struggled with rejection and being treated as worthless in my first marriage. Was only until I met my husband now of 10 years that I feel like the amazing woman that i know I am- he has always made me feel so loved, appreciated and important - the betrayal was a state of terrible weakness and I am understanding of that as well as my role. For the first time in a while since the betrayal I am feeling a little more positive thank you Elle from the bottom of my heart for your response. I think I may start working towards that other then always feeling like my husband will abandon me. Im thinking once I stop feeling this way I may be able to move forward with my marriage. Xoxoxox
THB, I'm glad you're feeling more positive. But it will take some work on your part to really excavate where those old messages came from and to become conscious of when you're repeating them to yourself -- rather than looking at the current situation. As my wise therapist also used to say to me, it's not what other people say to us, it's what we say to ourselves. It's what we choose to believe about ourselves.
I’m so thankful for this space! H is coming back from a week long trip across the country and I have had to care for my mother and once again I’m having to guess my way through whether she has a real illness or if just the dementia is leading to her pain. I took her to her doctor and she’s had a complete urinalysis and it didn’t show anything bacterial, but as a precaution, he gave her a shot of antibiotics and a week of pills to finish and come back if no improvement in a week. Meanwhile, I had my annual physical and needed a few follow up tests but I’m so worn out that I will have to be selfish tomorrow and make me take care of me. I’m grateful that you, Elle seem to give us permission to do self care!
Oh Theresa, that sounds exhausting. And it's crazy that so many of us need permission to actually take care of ourselves. What a nutty culture when half of the population thinks we need to "earn" self-care.
Elle It’s been a very exhausting year for her and me as care taker. But I’m stronger than I was and determined that I won’t allow my health to become compromised. It’s up to her to keep her abilities to live alone in her own house and then it’s going to be up to me to find her a place to live when she no longer can. I now have the power of attorney and I know that when the time comes, I will know what I need to do for her. Today is my day!
Theresa, I feel for you. I wish I had a medical background to offer something helpful or constructive but I don't. You have my ear and a space in my heart for all you are going through.
Theresa, That is such a hard burden figuring all of that out for someone else. It seems rare any medical issue is straight forward and then the decisions related to staying in her home or not is so tricky. Thinking of you!! Take care of yourself!
Theresa, not sure where your mom lives but a few places you can look to get assistance with coordinating her care: 1) if she has a Medicare Advantage plan call the nurse # on the back of her ID card and ask for a care manager, 2) if she does not then call the local Area Agency on Aging in the community where she lives. Both of these resources are experts at care coordination for the frail elderly .
browneyedgirl She is currently being assisted by our local Council on Aging. She has meals on wheels and a lady that light duty cleans once a week. She has had in house physical therapy as well as occupational therapy to insure her safety. I’m having issues deciding when the symptoms she complains about are real or mostly due to dementia/depression. She pretty much is a recluse and has at one time or another, cut ties with her grandsons. She was taken advantage financially by the oldest but at the time I wasn’t knowledgeable about the loan that turned into a gift. I’m sure I will find the answers but I’m going back to each of her Drs to rule out the organs that I know have issues due to her heart issues from February. It’s stressful on many levels!
Good morning sisters. For the past two days I've felt unsettled like some of you have posted. Nothing particular my hubby has done but I've again felt my foundation shake and quake with the ongoing and new disclosures/firings of men in power being accused and sued over sexual stuff. Honestly, I find myself looking at every single man and asking myself, "What are you hiding?" This is not healthy and I'm struggling to find quick interventions in my mind to not have a meltdown. I believe my husband is staying true to me and himself and I believe that he is sincere in his ongoing professions and demonstrations of love and devotion to me but internally I just want to cry and withdraw. I have always struggled with Christmas and my anniversary is in January so my body may be remembering and setting off "warning" bells. I'm trying to look at this for what it is but I'm not sure how to deal with it. Suggestions? Thoughts?
Beach Girl, I’m struggling a bit too. It’s not escalating to the point where I spiral out of control, but I just feel sad about it. My husband’s affair was with someone at work. He was guilty of having inappropriate e-mail exchanges with the OW via work e-mail. (Convenient, but stupid.) He was a manager and she was a receptionist. While she didn’t work for him directly, it’s still inappropriate beyond the fact that they were both married to other people and is open to the perception that it was a power thing. I’m just keep telling myself to stay in the present. He’s not doing those things now. He recognizes where things went wrong and has made changes. He has remorse for having ever done them. If I stay focused on the present, it helps. It’s hard when it’s all over the news. Hugs! ❤️
Beach girl Thanks for the ear. It does help! The month of December is a tough emotional one because we have a lifetime of tradition with our children. It’s become more difficult due to our son living in Minnesota and all of us in the south. This year due to my mother’s health we’re having all 10-12 Christmas Day and we are living in a four room ‘mansion’. We made it through the party here in September as a trial run. We made it work. That said I now have to keep my sanity leading up to the big day and I’m working diligently on a blue jeans quilt for our granddaughter. This keeps my hands busy and my mind occupied. I still have sleeping issues with my h traveling but he will be home tonight and I’m sure I’ll have a better rest. I know those tingling feelings you call warning bells. Mine are alarming due to mothers current? Illness, I suspect is self induced due to dementia. So I tell her that she’s got to eat or she’s going to be back in the hospital but she couldn’t eat her soup last night because I didn’t get her the crackers she was supposed to be making a grilled cheese. Long post but my point is that I’m trying to allow her to make better choices but fully aware that I’m taking care of a 185lb toddler! Sending hugs!
I am so glad you said something. This news really is hard on me. I struggle first of all since my husband is so disgusted. I know he did not have his affairs in the workplace but honestly any of this feels like deception. I see so many parallels even in what he did with these people. He gets very technical with his mental health background and level of perversion etc. I don't really care it makes me want to sit and cry since I don't feel there is a difference in what he did with what they did. Affairs, workplace sexual harassment etc is all so common. It makes me sad. Then I have friends that are tired of hearing from these women and wonder when it will stop or when these men will turn on them. I cannot take that view point either.
I already have been feeling at a low spot due to a busy schedule, being overwhelmed with the kids and work and now this it just piles on. I find I withdraw. I want to be alone. And there has been not one good moment to even talk with him about it. Our kids are around, he is watching the new coverage or we are at work. My husband continues to be great but I feel myself pulling away too. I was wondering if it was the holidays on top of all of these sex scandals. I feel like there is not a safe place in the world.
Beach Girl, I have felt off too with the news lately. I am feeling uncertain too about the intentions of men as a whole. I feel better after a workout or meditation, but I don't know what to do either. I feel strongest when I help someone else, so I've been trying to look for ways to reach out to friends, etc. It's not easy to hear about their bad behavior (men on the news) and refrain from drawing parallels and making up scenarios in my head. It makes me want to move to another continent alone. One where men and women are all nice. If any of you find it, just tell me where! Lol.
Beach Girl I'm sorry to hear you've joined another of us in this unsettling feeling this week. Apart from riding these feelings out, this time of the year added with your anniversary coming up, as Elle has said many times "create your own new memories". If you have time on your side, are you able to immerse yourself in helping with kids -schools, kindergartens to see the joy in these celebrations by surrounding yourself with innocence of these children. I'm sure they'd appreciate the help in cutting out decorations etc, or to immerse yourself in helping wrap presents for charities? I think this will always be on your mind, but making something else a priority will help take your mind off all this shit - even for a while. Maybe???? I hope you find peace. As for what you have said about all these men being accused over all this sexual stuff, It's a world wide problem. This is really pissing me off too. There are too many men with too many problems in the world. What happened to them being human beings first? All they think about is being sexual - obviously they have too much time on their hands and some sort of imbalance in their brains. It's not just celebrities, it's men like ours that are out in the community - it's men everywhere. I'm sure there are some good decent men, but I too find myself looking at men so differently now. As one of my daughters has said re all these problems in the world - it's always instigated by men!!!! Men and their egos. What sort of world are we bringing our children/grandchildren up in? Hugs Gabby xo
Thank you all for your responses and suggestions. My husband actually brought it up last night after dinner. He looked at me and said, "I can't imagine how hard this must be for you. It is hard for me too." That led to a couple of hours of crying, some of my attacking and him giving me some additional information about his past that I did not know about. Early on after disclosure I asked him how he would feel if the shoe were on the other foot and he said, "I'd forgive and give you another chance." I thought, "yeah right". Last night when I said, "You have no idea how it feels, he said yes I do and with some encouraging he told me that he had been cheated on by every woman he had a significant relationship with including his former wife whom he gave a chance twice to." So in my pain I responded, "So you had to pay that forward?" You had to do to me what was done to you despite knowing how much this hurts? Probably not the best thing but it ended on a more even keel by the time we went to bed but it is so hard to remind myself that it is not happening now. I told him that I've read so much and that men who have actual affairs are different than men who use porn and whores. I told him that since he didn't care who he was serviced by as long as she was young, cute and Asian he could just say "I'm going to the city for X,Y,Z and get serviced without me knowing." He cared so little about anything except his c*ck being serviced. Ugh I wish I could just stop myself but there is a volcano deep inside that just wants to erupt and burn him to death. He feels terrible shame and remorse and he told me that every day he looks at me and sees how much pain I am in because of him. He never forgets. He also told me that even if he had an "urge" to visit one of those places again he would know the pain of putting his hand on the door for him and he would not open the door because of what it would do to me." He sounds so sincere and I want to believe him. I truly do. I've lost faith in myself and my ability to be graceful in pain at the moment. I know it will pass and thank you all so much for responding. It is nice to know that someone cares.
What are the different types of men? Please share any links!!!
I care!! I care so much about all you wonderful beautiful women who have made me smile and even laugh and i don't know anything about any of you but I know your pain!!!
I can come on here and I can read & write and be encouraged and shown more love then my husband has shown me over his affair period. This is proof we aren't alone fighting this pain despite every thought I have that tells me I am.
Beach Girl, I am happy to hear your H brought it up and had empathy for you. That is HUGE. That is what I keep telling my H I need but so far he waits for me to bring it up and says 'he'd be sick to his stomach'. We know it's so much more than nausea. Give your self time to be graceful. He sounds sincere to me. I think empathy for the person you hurt is the highest form of self awareness. It's a big deal. I hope we can receive that.
BEG, One thing that was hard for my husband is he always wanted to be the one to "fix" everything. And I don't mean around the house but if anyone had a problem or issue. Well all of a sudden he was the problem and he could not just fix himself. And on top of it fixing it required that we talk about him and all this pain he caused over and over. The most major process was him learning to talk about it all and work through it with me. Then work at figuring out what kind of marriage we both wanted. Him changing took a long time. And I am not talking about anything to do with his affairs but more the communication side of things. My husband still rarely brings things up. When I do more often than not he says he feels the same or he will say me too. So it is a step in the right direction. A while back he would have been defensive. One thing that was always hard for me is he was so empathic towards others or giving them a pass. But that was never the case between us. Everything I did was always over the top, too intense, too dedicated... you name it how ever I did it basically I was too dedicated. I realize now it was the only thing he could knock me down and make himself feel better. And he sought out those that did less both in his friends and these women. I refuse to change who I am in those ways. That is what makes me who I am. I made a huge effort to talk less and listen more. He has worked to not be defensive.
I recommend this article all the time but it was a game changer when he brought it home from work for me to read. First of all the fact he brought it home and started a conversation was huge. It was in the first two months after dday which was another big deal. The Masters of Love in The Atlantic by John Gottman. It was/is a great article. He still refers to it. For me what I liked was it was more about how couples interact and face each other. I think all of Gottmans books are great because they focus on relationships.
And now this from FB. Speaker/Author Juli Alvarado
You're not lost. It just feels that way sometimes. There are times when you get scared and cannot imagine that there is a way out.
But there is, always a way out. You have more courage than you know.
There are spirits protecting all of us whispering words of encouragement even when you cannot hear them.
Please do not give into the voices of fear.
There are many options for you in this moment and the clarity around them will surface.
Hold on. Breathe deeply. Feel what you feel.
Accepting what is, right now in this moment, is the only starting point for healing.
Acceptance does not mean we suck it up and sit in a corner miserably. It means we see things as they are and acknowledge them, which puts us to the real starting point.
A starting point based on wishful thinking or past regrets will only lead to more pain and suffering.
Learning to accept things no matter how hard, or sad, or feeling impossible, accepting all things as they are is the beginning of real change.
Not easy, I know; exhale~
My hope for you today is that you will ask for and be open to receive the most graceful path toward healing.
You are loved not only here in this physical life, but also deeply loved by the creator and all spirit surrounding you.
In your darkest moment you are not alone.
In the end and in the beginning there is only Love.
I've read about some women being juat as awful too... I can't put my head in how a woman can do this... I juat can't. Men are culturally brought up to behave in a certain way... it's NO excuse but at least I can see how they would accept this as OK until their spouses find out and their world is shattered. A woman on the other hand? While they hVe children? Its nutzo to me. I would never ever hurt my kids and my family this way. I hate that I married someone that would/did. I think selfishness is ruling the world and the core reason for all this yuck going on.
Agree, selfishness & entitlement is at the root of so many problems. And disappointingly, there seems to be an abundance of it in this day & age. Everywhere you look - in our husbands, on the news, on the roads...
I wanted to share something that helped me immensely in the early months post D-day (and well beyond, if I am honest.)
When i first found out, my imagination went into overdrive. I got pretty creative, even googling the hotel they stayed at so I could get a better image in my head. Yep. I was that bad.
What I created for myself was some emotional baggage the size of a Santa sack, and I was lugging that shit around all day, and most of the night. With the new found imagination and creativity his affair had released in me, I set about using them in less destructive ways.
When it all got too much and the mind movies started I would mentally throw them into the Santa sack (Dday was near christmas, can you tell??)
I would picture that sack in detail, the colour, the fabric, the stitching. Then...I started imagining that I put that sack down. Just for a little while. Long enough to go for a run, have a coffee or spend a few minutes with my kids without the sadness and emotional turmoil I was feeling. It was still there, growling in the corner, but that little bit of distance was a life saver.
After a while I could leave the sack parked for an hour, maybe more. Then I started to imagine the sack was shrinking. As time went by, as I talked to a therapist and to my husband I realised that I wasn't carrying such a weight, and I could fit all the crap into a reasonable sized rucksack. Sometimes I open up the rucksack, sometimes the bastard opens itself up when I am caught unawares BUT I am in CONTROL of it...I can give it a kick or I can put it down for a while if I need to. One day I hope it won't be there at all.
So true, so true.
ReplyDeleteGood morning I haven't posted in a while but have been reading all your posts and getting inspiration from all of you. I'm working hard everyday on my insecurities and self worthlessness. H reassures me everyday how much he loves me and is sorry and this will never happen again. I am struggling with believing that. It's killing me that knowing that's the only thing left on moving forward is to BELEIVE him. I'm scared everyday to loose him?? He doesn't seem to understand why I have this fear when he would paint a picture for me if I asked him to. How can I put through my head were good and have a stronger marriage today? Why can't I move past that fear? He is being patient and gentle with me. I feel deep down in my heart it's okay to move past this and believe but then I get stopped?? I need advice please...I need help from any of you that has had this stick stuck in a wheel. I need to move forward as today right now my marriage is amazing and my husband is just as amazing. We are stronger and our communication is better then ever.
ReplyDeleteXoxo
Continued...
ReplyDeleteMy reason for being scared to believe him is he cheated on me when I never would have ever imagined he could do so. Our story in a nutshell...he was sexually unhappy for YEARS and has approached me many times about this and I just ignored. He was never unhappy with us as a couple, a family aND our life together. He felt I was not attracted to him and it was hopeless especially after opening up to me several times over the years. He never went searching he never asked to do this it was HER that came on to him and put him in a very bad place and he was weak very weak. I do believe this to be true and I regret everyday not taking his talks about being sexually unhappy over the years more seriously. I also beleive when he tells me this would not have happened if he was not sexually unhappy.
Trulyheartbroken,
DeleteNot to diminish how devastating betrayal is because we all know how much it is. But my therapist used to tell me that if I had a reaction that seemed out of proportion to a situation or if I just couldn't "reason" my way out of something that it was probably "old stuff" -- meaning it was something I'd absorbed long ago and it was deeply embedded. And I wonder if that's the issue with your feelings of self-worth and your insecurities. I wonder if, rather than the betrayal triggering that in you, that they were there all along and betrayal simply confirmed what you have long believed about yourself.
And that's stuff you have to work on because your husband can tell you a zillion times that he loves you and he wants to be with you and he'll never do this again and on and on. But if, deep down, you don't think you have worth, then none of his words will make any difference.
I had to mine a whole lot of my past (that I thought I was long over) because my husband's cheating triggered so much "old stuff" in me -- my terror of abandonment, my feelings of shame... But, in a way, the betrayal opened the door for me to really deal with that stuff in a way I wouldn't have otherwise. You might find the same thing.
Trulyheartbroken,
DeleteI understand so much of what you’ve expressed. I also have a very remorseful husband who has done so much to change. We’re over 2 1/2 yesrs from D-day. I’ve accepted what happened but if I spend too much time thinking about it there’s still that icy feeling in my chest of “this really happened to me”. It goes away quicker than it did in the beginning, my tears are fewer, and my anger doesn’t hang around nearly as long as it used to.
My husband was also unhappy with our sex life. I was busy raising kids and working and I didn’t recognize it was a big deal. I didn’t know that physical affection and sex equaled love and validation to him. I also didn’t know how much his childhood and what he saw modeled at home affected his ideas on relationships. He had a lot of issues that he never talked about and I just assumed we had normal issues that married couples had and we woukd get through them. Instead he started to use porn, it escalated to what we both now see as an addiction, and ended with him having an affair with a co-worker.
I NEVER dreamed my husband would be “that guy”. He was the one guy who I finally felt had chosen me. He was a “good guy”. He was going to be the one who stayed. As Elie mentioned to above, some of our reaction is linked to old “stuff”. I’m still wading through my own. I do know that I’ve always had self esteem issues when it came to relationships. I dated a series of not so nice guys and was in a relationship that was emotionally abusive. Outwardly, I always seemed to have it together but inside I never really felt worthy. My husband’s infidelity brought me right back to that awful feeling that I wasn’t “worth someone who would stay faithful”. So I have to continue to work on me.
Early on, I had to keep reminding myself that he chose to cheat, despite whatever issues he had. There was nothing I did to cause it. Neither of us was a perfect spouse to the other, we just handled our reactions to that differently. I do believe he had unresolved issues from childhood, but his choices and his actions are his to own. And I respect him for working to uncover and try to resolve them.
As far as our relationship goes, it’s easier for me to believe in my husband as more time goes by and his actions are consistent.
Hugs to you! I hear you and I understand how you feel. ❤️
Trulyheartbroken, As part of some of the work I've been doing on myself with regard to understanding my core beliefs and the awful things i felt about myself as part of what my husband did, I have had to understand that much of my hurt was that I believed myself to be helpless, unloveable, incapable, pathetic, inadequate, that I was saying these things to myself (and much had come from my mother's criticism growing up). I was calling myself these things beyond what my husband did. One of the exercises in the book I had was self-forgiveness. The exercise asked me to list what i called myself after one of the traumas of the affair, then recognise I was not those things, then give examples of how I was loveable, capable etc. A kind of rewiring. From what you say, it sounds as if you may be feeling guilty for not listening to your husband's concerns and responsible in some ways for what happened. My husband was a nice guy as well but couselling has revealed that his poor self-image and self-hatred was what caused the affair, nothing else. He felt both entitled to making himself feel better at the same time as feeling that no-body could truly be interested in him. These types of mixed feelings could have been at play in your husband. He dealt with a confusing situation very badly instead of getting professional help. In my case another reason I could not relax even though my husband was a nice guy and seemed to be doing most things right was that some things i needed post affair were not happening and that my husband hadn't done the work on himself to truly re-engage, it was surface level. These are some ideas. It is only now that the counsellor is bringing up longstanding issues and that my husband is engaging with me on a more authentic level that I am happier with our progress (this is four years later, with some recent - not affairs but deception and inappropriate friendships.)
DeleteI had a big sigh when reading your reply. Thank you Dandelion for your inspiring word's. I chose to stay with him because he out of all relationships in my life is the one. He is my heart and I have found forgiveness and understanding to his terrible actions. I have started searching deep down to what elle has said and work with that. I beleive that may be the issue I'm having. It's not him anymore. I just don't want to loose him. Despite his decision to be unfaithful he is still a remarkable man and I am still feeling lucky to have him. People make mistakes and mistakes can be forgiven. I know there is hope as long as I don't stay stuck to long...
DeleteI have fallen in love with him all over again. Crazy I know!!!! I found his tickle spots I never knew he had after 10 yrs of being together. I found the intimicy I deprived him of and I'm over the moon happy with him. The butterflies are coming back and I have opened myself sexually with him. Our marriage is better then ever although i need to get past that FEAR. Why didn't I do this before when he approached me so many times of his unhappiness?? Damn life got in the way and I always felt my husband was okay he didn't need me as much as our 5 teenagers, house work, job etc..I had put him on the bottom of my "to do list" of keeping happy. I just ASSUMED he WAS good. :( I regret this everyday. Can't go back only move forward from now on. He got lucky in a way, he is now my number 1 priority and definitely not on the bottom of my list. I took him for granted and he's now getting spoiled and I'm loving this!! There is hope to the newly betrayed, if there's love there's hope!
Xoxo
Trulyheartbroken, I'm a little late to the conversation here, but I've been thinking about you and your post. SO much reminds me of me early on and I think you are still early one right? I can feel you trying sooo very hard to fix it from here. I can practically feel you doing the heavy lifting, like watching a body builder heaving up a 500 lb barbell. I am saying this gently because this was me too, but perhaps you are rushing through this? Rushing to forgive, rushing to put this behind you, rushing past the pain and hurt, rushing to be all better again.
DeleteI'm so glad your husband is stepping up and being gentle and patient with you. You can be gentle and patient with you too.
As Elle suggests, when we are stuck or extra hurting over something, its usually about more than just what is happening now. Give yourself time to feel that and figure out what it is. You don't have to, nor is it possible to fix everything right this second.
And i recognize that post betrayal, you both have to build a narrative that helps you heal and move forward. What I am reading in your story above is you taking too much (and by too much, I mean any) blame for his cheating. Many people live on both sides of a sexless marriage and manage not to cheat. You were both unhappy and under-served in the marriage. You both contributed to that. i definitely contributed to what was wrong in our marriage. But I was never responsible for his choice to cheat. It is a shitty coping strategy for dealing with pain. Your husband made a shitty choice and needs to own responsibility for it. It sounds like you are both colluding to spread the blame around and more of it is coming on you and the OW and less on him. He was weak and vulnerable and yes the OW hit on him, but he was the one who acted. She didn't force him (as far as I know). When you are trying to rebuild a life, it is so much safer to place anger and blame on the party who is not in a relationship with you, the OW. I think that is why she is a target for so much of our anger and loathing. I'm trying my best to point out that I feel you are shouldering blame for his cheating and later, when you are not in crisis, I've got to fix this mode, this may rear its head in the form of anger and resentment and I don't want that for you.
And I will own here that my thoughts are as much about my own stuff and experiences as anything. I just see so much of myself and my early response in your words and wanted to share my thoughts.
Truly, you have a chance to reinvent your marriage and relationship and you are well on your way. Take some time out of the couple repair work to take care of just you.
SS1 Thank you for your time and advice. You are an amazing woman to have written this to me. Means a lot. I just want to be happy and move forward. I am still sad and still have tough days but I prefer my good days. I don't feel I'm taking blame for what he did but I do take some blame for my broken marriage pre-cheating. That has helped my forgiveness. I still look at him at times with such hurt but the love I have and the love he shows helps the hurt not last as long. I'm holding on to the Hope and not letting go. I want to believe he could never do this to me again. I am taking care of myself as much as I can...
DeleteXoxoxo
So love this imagine and quote....perfection. I thought of you ladies a lot last night and this morning as I was having a moment. Nothing specific happened, I think just one of those days where I am just so damn tired of it all. And coming here and reading this, knowing I am not alone, knowing you are all there to lift up and support - it helped me move through it. I think I am just feeling that feeling of trying harder than it seems he tries, wanting to talk more and move forward and tired of having to lead it all, tired of accepting the crumbs - or trying to figure out what those crumbs are. Trying to push down the hate I feel for what he did and the hurt he caused and reminding myself that it is okay to hate what he did and it's okay not to hate him as a person...it's okay so still love him. And the hate that i feel for OW...sometimes it is too much. So I let myself cry, I reminded myself that I am OK today, and no matter what I will still be okay. And that I am not alone. That's when I came here and read this. Thank you Elle. Thank you everyone.
ReplyDeleteOh Jules. We've been there. Lots of us still are there. Those feelings are perfectly normal. You don't have to always take the high road in your thoughts. You can let yourself indulge in a little rage toward two people who hurt you through their own shitty choices. And you can let yourself love someone capable of hurting you that way -- to separate out what he did f from who he is.
DeleteBut it's also important that you're doing what you're doing -- really figuring out the imbalance in the relationship to ensure it's equitable and that you're not doing the heavy lifting while he sits back and lets you.
Jules,
DeleteI, too, have recently had one of those days. I empathise with much of what you've stated, especially the part about trying so much harder (or just being consistent!) than your husband and always being the one to take the lead. It's exhausting and frustrating. I wish I could say it makes me feel better to hear you're having a similar experience as I am, but it doesn't. I really feel for you, Jules.
I've spoken to my MC about both of those concerns (several times, 1/2 of the time while my husband just sat there and didn't respond) - also about how my H doesn't seem to appreciate the love and care I show him. She suggested I back off, just stop. That was difficult for me because in my mind, if I back off, that means I've given up. I don't want to give up. I don't want to stop trying. My MC explained I wouldn't be doing either of those things. She said if my H doesn't seem to acknowledge or appreciate what I do, why should I keep trying so hard to show him? For whatever reason, he is not able to SEE. She stated he needs individual counseling to help him with a lot of burried stuff about himself - that he is not able to figure out on his own. She has said this to him at least 3 times. Has he followed through? I think every woman reading this knows the answer.
It's been almost 2 weeks since I've stopped trying so damn hard. It was extremely difficult at first, but it's not so much any more. He has noticed. He hasn't said it directly, but he is more interested in me. I'm not sure how I feel about that...probably b/c he's still not trying hard every day like I have for over a year. It's difficult to get out of that mindset... D day was Sept 3, 2016.
You're right; we need to remind ourselves we're okay today. We're taking care of ourselves, so we'll be okay. ��
Thank you Elle. As you know, so much of what I feel is around my fears since they still work together. And as much as my husband is doing, he is still not very transparent. I worry...I feel anxiety every day...and I struggle to trust, to hope, to know what to say or do. I am scared. And then I come here, feel less alone and then more scared. Because so many of you are trying to heal just like me, with the same feelings, but you have husbands who cut off contact, are transparent, do everything you ask or reassure you every day...and there is STILL pain and fear and anger and hurt. And then
Delete...then....then I get really mad. For all of us who are we perfect? No. But did we have an affair? NO. Yet here we are, putting on our brave faces each day for our kids or our jobs or our husbands or just for ourselves and do out best to get through day without as much pain as before. I am just struggling...Thanks for listening!
Jules
DeleteYou are not alone in your doubts. Even though I have a h that appears to be transparent and so remorseful for his past behavior, it doesn’t just take away the doubts that he could still be cheating but just being more careful. I’m one of those that have those doubts when my h travels for work. He tainted that for me by taking her on a one day trip to ‘keep her from telling me’. That’s what he was telling himself about that trip, but she was using it to black mail him into continuing the affair. When she did finally spew the truth it was filled with her truth which was in my h opinion her delusional desire for him to love her like she did him. This is what I struggled with for the first two years. My h has been consistent and transparent with his phone and tries to stay in contact but the truth is if he chooses to do that again as painful as it was/is for him and me, I finally had to accept that their wasn’t anything I could do about it and I will have to cross that bridge if I come to it. I’m sorry if you think it’s easy for those that have a truly committed h but it’s not. It’s still very fragile for both of us. However we’re still doing everything we can to save our marriage. He’s looking for a job that doesn’t require as much travel but the truth is that engineering is a very much travel to the project job. I’m hoping that your h will step up to the plate and really show you how much he values your relationship. Hugs
Jo...Thank you for your reply. How do you "back off? I have been trying that some by not bringing up long talks...trying to just live, and lovr5, and be...but sometimes that is hard for me as I am a talker. But when you describe stopping..what does that look like?
DeleteI agree with what Theresa says. I do not think I will ever not have doubt. Of course that is on a continuum. My husband does not work with either ow or have contact. He says he is transparent but I honestly feel like if he wants to have an affair or let that happen he could do that. And even more so since he was not tech savy at all back then but now know much more partially from what I have told him about the use of technology. There is no shortage of women that would be willing too. He has been great about telling me of anything odd or that even he thought crossed the line with others I do and don't know. He tells me it would be reflected in how he acts with and around me. He is an open book now and it is different. He was not mean but just more closed off. I have thought a lot about this and even if I were to leave him I think I would feel this way about any other man I started a relationship with too. I really began to focus on me and what I can control. I like to talk a lot more than my husband and sometimes I have to find other outlets. I write a lot, work out, walk, work in the yard etc. All of those things help me. I used to like watching tv, movies or read but I feel like every book I pick up has affair/betrayals. For me I had to decided what I wanted and set those boundaries and expectations. I would suggest figuring out what you need. Do you need him to change jobs. Maybe not soon but can you put a plan in place. Or be very specific about what he needs to do. We honestly started off with him calling me over his lunch and on his way home from work. And if his schedule changed at all even for work he had to text me. And when he would do something with friends or go out of town it was more detailed. At first it was odd since he never lived his life that way and I even found it overwhelming. But in time it became habit and he seeks me out. The other agreement we have is if I want to talk to him or need anything I can call him at any time no matter what. He said he cannot enjoy himself if he is worried about me stressing out about him. He has said he let me down for too long and he wants to make it better. This came with over 2 1/2 years of work and I don't anticipate the work slowing down. I feel communication and being vigilant in fostering it is critical if we want to stay together.
DeleteHi, Jules.
DeleteI'm a talker, too. I get that!
For me, "backing off" or "stopping" means:
-not initiating serious conversations, like asking him how he feels or how he thinks things are going in our relationship
-not texting him a heart, kiss face, or an "I love you" in the middle of the day
-not texting/calling him to see how his day is going (like you, the OW works for the same organization as my H)
-not writing brief love notes or "steamy" sexy notes
I backed off on how often I do little things I used to do, even before his affair, to show him I love him and am thinking about him. What really made me step back and think was when I shared with my MC (my H was there, too) that for several random days in a row this past summer, I sent him a daily text saying I loved him and why I loved him. He told me he thought that was "overkill," and he didn't understand why I would text him something like that in the middle of his work day. Why couldn't I just tell him in person, he asked. That really hurt. There I was, again, bearing my soul...taking time to share an intimate moment with him...letting him know I still loved him and wanted to be with him... and he tells me it's "overkill."
I have not cut myself off from my H. We have conversations, even though he believes most of them are forced and "unnatural." We spend time with our teenage children. We go out at least once a week, sometimes just us and other times with other couples.I seem to have more fun than him. We still have sex, but not as often as we used to. Sometimes I initiate it, other times he does. I'm lucky if we have sex once a week. (Hope that's not TMI.)
I feel like I have said all I can, and I continue to show him - although differently now - daily that I'm STILL here.I'm still working on myself. I'm still working hard for us. HE needs to work hard, too. He said I was trying too hard and almost forcing things to happen. So, I stopped, or perhaps I paused...
I'm not happy about backing off, but I don't know what else to do. I feel like I'm approaching a crossroads, but I'm not as anxious about that as I thought I would be. I'm gaining clarity in what I want again and what I'm willing to accept and also not put up with.
I wish he would accept individual counseling so he and I may both move forward, hopefully together. I wish he would call his physician, as our MC suggested, to see if he's suffering from depression. I can't make him do those things. He has to want to do them. Man, I wish he would! Since he won't, I choose to focus on myself and try not to worry about if he's accepting or rejecting my repair attempts. It's not easy, and I think it's freakin ironic that he had the affair but I'm the one working hard to rebuild our marriage. What else can I do, though?
Jules, Backing off is giving him a taste of what life will relaly be like without you and the emotional support you provide and that he takes for granted. This was true with my ex. He really didn't start to wake up until I stopped doing all the emotional lifting for him.
DeleteSo - stop trying to fix him or the marriage. One person alone can't fix a marriage. There's a great little book an Amazon Kindle called "Detach and Survive" and is a guide for wives of mid-life crisis men.
Basically, you switch your focus form him to you. Stop love bombing him, if you are doing that. The love notes and stuff tell him that you are still available to him no matter what he does or how he treats you.
You work on you. Find a physical activity that you love. Always wanted to take up racquetball or horseback riding? now is the time to join a league or get some lessons. Don't ask him if it is ok or invite him along. Just do it for you. Have you always done his wash? Let him know that its time for him to pitch in and do his own (and while you are at it, look at how work may be divided along gender lines in your home and mix it up. You mow the lawn this time and he can vacuum or get the groceries. Do something different). Work on yourself emotionally. See a therapist. Read Brene Brown and Pema Chodron and whatever else grabs your eye. Meditate. Start doing things socially. Look on meetup for a dog walking group or photography group or quilting group. Whatever floats your boat. Go out and make new friends. Make your own life. Take painting classes. Connect with old friends. Invite them to lunch or out for coffee. Make your own plans. Start living your own life. Work n your self spiritually. Is that getting back to your church or finding a new one? Is that making sure you commune with nature? Dancing? What feeds your soul? Work on yourself economically? Are you dependent on him financially? Do you work or have income? How can you change that? Do you have visibility into all the banking and credit cards, retirement accounts? Make sure you can see what is going on. Start your own savings if you don't have one now.
And as far as sex and that kind of intimacy goes... If you want to have sex, have sex. If you don't then don't. But make sure you are doing what feels right for you.
Something interesting happens when these guys see that you are off living an amazing life in spite of or without them. And something amazing happens for you too. You get your life back and realize that you don't need him in order to be happy. Then you get to decide if gets to be in your life or not. I hope this helps.
SS1 - you are such an amazing blessing. Thank you -- again -- for saying just what I needed to read.
DeleteI stumbled on to Jayson Gaddis in one of my many searches after DDay. One of the things he says is just what everyone else is saying. I figured if a guy was saying it then it must have truth. Strange thing ... I stopped talking. And you know what ... he noticed. For the first time in I don't even know how long ... he noticed. Like the silence was so foreign to him that he finally noticed.
I've learned to be more quiet ... now I need to learn to stop fixing. But most importantly I need to start learning to focus on me without asking for permission from ANYONE to do so. Funny how this has taught me that I need to institute boundaries on so many people and things in my life.
SS1,
DeleteYou said it much better than I did! :)
Thanks for all the replies, Ladies. So much of what I needed to hear. I'm trying to hard to balance the backing off and focusing on me with keeping things moving forward. However, I feel like this is almost a necessary part right now. I have my fears...but I always have fears. I want to still be kind and loving to my husband, but I also want to just...back off. For all he has done that was wrong, I was not perfect - none of us were. We know that and I am not making excuses...however there are parts of our relationship that are still healing just here at home. Meaning - I know, I remember what I was like for years. Again - that is not an excuse for my husband to do what he did and I don't feel he blames me for that, however, I know that he is trying to heal and learn where to trust me, too. That is mostly at home. I used to be unpredictable, rude, short, unhappy, demanding...many things that I know he is "waiting" to see if I have really changed. I know in the past just about the time he settles in and thinks we are in a good place, BAM I hit him with something all over again. And many times that was/is necessary - I am the "lead" when it comes to relationship stuff. But - I'm tired of that and I'm tired of those feelings that come from it ALL the time. I hope if I can focus on getting back to me and some things I enjoy, if I can still come here when I need support, but also maybe back myself off incessant Google searches for any one thing that will tell me it will all be okay (we all know that doesn't exist) and if I can focus on being kind and loving towards my husband, but also my kids and most importantly MYSELF (I get short with my kids, too, when I have not been very kind to myself...not good)...I hope I can get back to some REAL joy this holiday season and after. Nothing has to be solved today. Nothing has to be fixed today. And no one thing I am doing or not doing will change a decision my husband will make in the end anyway.
DeleteDoes this make sense? Am I rambling all kinds of crazy just to make myself feel better? I value you all and your opinions so much...thoughts?
..and friends have come from here. BWC.
ReplyDeleteHugs
Gabby xo
Glad you're here, Gabby. Sorry you're having such a tough time of it lately.
DeleteThank you so much Elle. What you said has truly opened up a door I had never thought of. I have struggled with rejection and being treated as worthless in my first marriage. Was only until I met my husband now of 10 years that I feel like the amazing woman that i know I am- he has always made me feel so loved, appreciated and important - the betrayal was a state of terrible weakness and I am understanding of that as well as my role. For the first time in a while since the betrayal I am feeling a little more positive thank you Elle from the bottom of my heart for your response. I think I may start working towards that other then always feeling like my husband will abandon me. Im thinking once I stop feeling this way I may be able to move forward with my marriage.
ReplyDeleteXoxoxox
THB,
DeleteI'm glad you're feeling more positive. But it will take some work on your part to really excavate where those old messages came from and to become conscious of when you're repeating them to yourself -- rather than looking at the current situation. As my wise therapist also used to say to me, it's not what other people say to us, it's what we say to ourselves. It's what we choose to believe about ourselves.
I’m so thankful for this space! H is coming back from a week long trip across the country and I have had to care for my mother and once again I’m having to guess my way through whether she has a real illness or if just the dementia is leading to her pain. I took her to her doctor and she’s had a complete urinalysis and it didn’t show anything bacterial, but as a precaution, he gave her a shot of antibiotics and a week of pills to finish and come back if no improvement in a week. Meanwhile, I had my annual physical and needed a few follow up tests but I’m so worn out that I will have to be selfish tomorrow and make me take care of me. I’m grateful that you, Elle seem to give us permission to do self care!
ReplyDeleteOh Theresa, that sounds exhausting. And it's crazy that so many of us need permission to actually take care of ourselves. What a nutty culture when half of the population thinks we need to "earn" self-care.
DeleteElle
DeleteIt’s been a very exhausting year for her and me as care taker. But I’m stronger than I was and determined that I won’t allow my health to become compromised. It’s up to her to keep her abilities to live alone in her own house and then it’s going to be up to me to find her a place to live when she no longer can. I now have the power of attorney and I know that when the time comes, I will know what I need to do for her. Today is my day!
Theresa, I feel for you. I wish I had a medical background to offer something helpful or constructive but I don't. You have my ear and a space in my heart for all you are going through.
DeleteTheresa, That is such a hard burden figuring all of that out for someone else. It seems rare any medical issue is straight forward and then the decisions related to staying in her home or not is so tricky. Thinking of you!! Take care of yourself!
DeleteTheresa, not sure where your mom lives but a few places you can look to get assistance with coordinating her care: 1) if she has a Medicare Advantage plan call the nurse # on the back of her ID card and ask for a care manager, 2) if she does not then call the local Area Agency on Aging in the community where she lives. Both of these resources are experts at care coordination for the frail elderly .
Deletebrowneyedgirl
DeleteShe is currently being assisted by our local Council on Aging. She has meals on wheels and a lady that light duty cleans once a week. She has had in house physical therapy as well as occupational therapy to insure her safety. I’m having issues deciding when the symptoms she complains about are real or mostly due to dementia/depression. She pretty much is a recluse and has at one time or another, cut ties with her grandsons. She was taken advantage financially by the oldest but at the time I wasn’t knowledgeable about the loan that turned into a gift. I’m sure I will find the answers but I’m going back to each of her Drs to rule out the organs that I know have issues due to her heart issues from February. It’s stressful on many levels!
Good morning sisters. For the past two days I've felt unsettled like some of you have posted. Nothing particular my hubby has done but I've again felt my foundation shake and quake with the ongoing and new disclosures/firings of men in power being accused and sued over sexual stuff. Honestly, I find myself looking at every single man and asking myself, "What are you hiding?" This is not healthy and I'm struggling to find quick interventions in my mind to not have a meltdown. I believe my husband is staying true to me and himself and I believe that he is sincere in his ongoing professions and demonstrations of love and devotion to me but internally I just want to cry and withdraw. I have always struggled with Christmas and my anniversary is in January so my body may be remembering and setting off "warning" bells. I'm trying to look at this for what it is but I'm not sure how to deal with it. Suggestions? Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteBeach Girl,
DeleteI’m struggling a bit too. It’s not escalating to the point where I spiral out of control, but I just feel sad about it. My husband’s affair was with someone at work. He was guilty of having inappropriate e-mail exchanges with the OW via work e-mail. (Convenient, but stupid.) He was a manager and she was a receptionist. While she didn’t work for him directly, it’s still inappropriate beyond the fact that they were both married to other people and is open to the perception that it was a power thing.
I’m just keep telling myself to stay in the present. He’s not doing those things now. He recognizes where things went wrong and has made changes. He has remorse for having ever done them. If I stay focused on the present, it helps.
It’s hard when it’s all over the news.
Hugs! ❤️
Beach girl
DeleteThanks for the ear. It does help! The month of December is a tough emotional one because we have a lifetime of tradition with our children. It’s become more difficult due to our son living in Minnesota and all of us in the south. This year due to my mother’s health we’re having all 10-12 Christmas Day and we are living in a four room ‘mansion’. We made it through the party here in September as a trial run. We made it work. That said I now have to keep my sanity leading up to the big day and I’m working diligently on a blue jeans quilt for our granddaughter. This keeps my hands busy and my mind occupied. I still have sleeping issues with my h traveling but he will be home tonight and I’m sure I’ll have a better rest. I know those tingling feelings you call warning bells. Mine are alarming due to mothers current? Illness, I suspect is self induced due to dementia. So I tell her that she’s got to eat or she’s going to be back in the hospital but she couldn’t eat her soup last night because I didn’t get her the crackers she was supposed to be making a grilled cheese. Long post but my point is that I’m trying to allow her to make better choices but fully aware that I’m taking care of a 185lb toddler! Sending hugs!
I am so glad you said something. This news really is hard on me. I struggle first of all since my husband is so disgusted. I know he did not have his affairs in the workplace but honestly any of this feels like deception. I see so many parallels even in what he did with these people. He gets very technical with his mental health background and level of perversion etc. I don't really care it makes me want to sit and cry since I don't feel there is a difference in what he did with what they did. Affairs, workplace sexual harassment etc is all so common. It makes me sad. Then I have friends that are tired of hearing from these women and wonder when it will stop or when these men will turn on them. I cannot take that view point either.
DeleteI already have been feeling at a low spot due to a busy schedule, being overwhelmed with the kids and work and now this it just piles on. I find I withdraw. I want to be alone. And there has been not one good moment to even talk with him about it. Our kids are around, he is watching the new coverage or we are at work. My husband continues to be great but I feel myself pulling away too. I was wondering if it was the holidays on top of all of these sex scandals. I feel like there is not a safe place in the world.
Beach Girl,
DeleteI have felt off too with the news lately. I am feeling uncertain too about the intentions of men as a whole. I feel better after a workout or meditation, but I don't know what to do either. I feel strongest when I help someone else, so I've been trying to look for ways to reach out to friends, etc. It's not easy to hear about their bad behavior (men on the news) and refrain from drawing parallels and making up scenarios in my head. It makes me want to move to another continent alone. One where men and women are all nice. If any of you find it, just tell me where! Lol.
Beach Girl
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear you've joined another of us in this unsettling feeling this week. Apart from riding these feelings out, this time of the year added with your anniversary coming up, as Elle has said many times "create your own new memories". If you have time on your side, are you able to immerse yourself in helping with kids -schools, kindergartens to see the joy in these celebrations by surrounding yourself with innocence of these children. I'm sure they'd appreciate the help in cutting out decorations etc, or to immerse yourself in helping wrap presents for charities? I think this will always be on your mind, but making something else a priority will help take your mind off all this shit - even for a while. Maybe???? I hope you find peace.
As for what you have said about all these men being accused over all this sexual stuff, It's a world wide problem. This is really pissing me off too. There are too many men with too many problems in the world. What happened to them being human beings first? All they think about is being sexual - obviously they have too much time on their hands and some sort of imbalance in their brains. It's not just celebrities, it's men like ours that are out in the community - it's men everywhere. I'm sure there are some good decent men, but I too find myself looking at men so differently now. As one of my daughters has said re all these problems in the world - it's always instigated by men!!!! Men and their egos.
What sort of world are we bringing our children/grandchildren up in?
Hugs
Gabby xo
Thank you all for your responses and suggestions. My husband actually brought it up last night after dinner. He looked at me and said, "I can't imagine how hard this must be for you. It is hard for me too." That led to a couple of hours of crying, some of my attacking and him giving me some additional information about his past that I did not know about. Early on after disclosure I asked him how he would feel if the shoe were on the other foot and he said, "I'd forgive and give you another chance." I thought, "yeah right". Last night when I said, "You have no idea how it feels, he said yes I do and with some encouraging he told me that he had been cheated on by every woman he had a significant relationship with including his former wife whom he gave a chance twice to." So in my pain I responded, "So you had to pay that forward?" You had to do to me what was done to you despite knowing how much this hurts? Probably not the best thing but it ended on a more even keel by the time we went to bed but it is so hard to remind myself that it is not happening now. I told him that I've read so much and that men who have actual affairs are different than men who use porn and whores. I told him that since he didn't care who he was serviced by as long as she was young, cute and Asian he could just say "I'm going to the city for X,Y,Z and get serviced without me knowing." He cared so little about anything except his c*ck being serviced. Ugh I wish I could just stop myself but there is a volcano deep inside that just wants to erupt and burn him to death. He feels terrible shame and remorse and he told me that every day he looks at me and sees how much pain I am in because of him. He never forgets. He also told me that even if he had an "urge" to visit one of those places again he would know the pain of putting his hand on the door for him and he would not open the door because of what it would do to me." He sounds so sincere and I want to believe him. I truly do. I've lost faith in myself and my ability to be graceful in pain at the moment. I know it will pass and thank you all so much for responding. It is nice to know that someone cares.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the different types of men? Please share any links!!!
DeleteI care!! I care so much about all you wonderful beautiful women who have made me smile and even laugh and i don't know anything about any of you but I know your pain!!!
I can come on here and I can read & write and be encouraged and shown more love then my husband has shown me over his affair period. This is proof we aren't alone fighting this pain despite every thought I have that tells me I am.
Lots of love!!!
Beach Girl, I am happy to hear your H brought it up and had empathy for you. That is HUGE. That is what I keep telling my H I need but so far he waits for me to bring it up and says 'he'd be sick to his stomach'. We know it's so much more than nausea. Give your self time to be graceful. He sounds sincere to me. I think empathy for the person you hurt is the highest form of self awareness. It's a big deal. I hope we can receive that.
DeleteBEG, One thing that was hard for my husband is he always wanted to be the one to "fix" everything. And I don't mean around the house but if anyone had a problem or issue. Well all of a sudden he was the problem and he could not just fix himself. And on top of it fixing it required that we talk about him and all this pain he caused over and over. The most major process was him learning to talk about it all and work through it with me. Then work at figuring out what kind of marriage we both wanted. Him changing took a long time. And I am not talking about anything to do with his affairs but more the communication side of things. My husband still rarely brings things up. When I do more often than not he says he feels the same or he will say me too. So it is a step in the right direction. A while back he would have been defensive. One thing that was always hard for me is he was so empathic towards others or giving them a pass. But that was never the case between us. Everything I did was always over the top, too intense, too dedicated... you name it how ever I did it basically I was too dedicated. I realize now it was the only thing he could knock me down and make himself feel better. And he sought out those that did less both in his friends and these women. I refuse to change who I am in those ways. That is what makes me who I am. I made a huge effort to talk less and listen more. He has worked to not be defensive.
DeleteI recommend this article all the time but it was a game changer when he brought it home from work for me to read. First of all the fact he brought it home and started a conversation was huge. It was in the first two months after dday which was another big deal. The Masters of Love in The Atlantic by John Gottman. It was/is a great article. He still refers to it. For me what I liked was it was more about how couples interact and face each other. I think all of Gottmans books are great because they focus on relationships.
And now this from FB. Speaker/Author Juli Alvarado
ReplyDeleteYou're not lost. It just feels that way sometimes. There are times when you get scared and cannot imagine that there is a way out.
But there is, always a way out. You have more courage than you know.
There are spirits protecting all of us whispering words of encouragement even when you cannot hear them.
Please do not give into the voices of fear.
There are many options for you in this moment and the clarity around them will surface.
Hold on.
Breathe deeply.
Feel what you feel.
Accepting what is, right now in this moment, is the only starting point for healing.
Acceptance does not mean we suck it up and sit in a corner miserably. It means we see things as they are and acknowledge them, which puts us to the real starting point.
A starting point based on wishful thinking or past regrets will only lead to more pain and suffering.
Learning to accept things no matter how hard, or sad, or feeling impossible, accepting all things as they are is the beginning of real change.
Not easy, I know; exhale~
My hope for you today is that you will ask for and be open to receive the most graceful path toward healing.
You are loved not only here in this physical life, but also deeply loved by the creator and all spirit surrounding you.
In your darkest moment you are not alone.
In the end and in the beginning there is only Love.
Love always wins~ ��
Thank you, Beach Girl. I needed those reminders today. Love and strength to all of you.
DeleteThat is beautiful.
DeleteI've read about some women being juat as awful too... I can't put my head in how a woman can do this... I juat can't. Men are culturally brought up to behave in a certain way... it's NO excuse but at least I can see how they would accept this as OK until their spouses find out and their world is shattered. A woman on the other hand? While they hVe children? Its nutzo to me. I would never ever hurt my kids and my family this way. I hate that I married someone that would/did.
ReplyDeleteI think selfishness is ruling the world and the core reason for all this yuck going on.
Agree, selfishness & entitlement is at the root of so many problems. And disappointingly, there seems to be an abundance of it in this day & age. Everywhere you look - in our husbands, on the news, on the roads...
DeleteThank you beach girl .. so refreshing to hear that we will always be ok xxx
ReplyDeleteI wanted to share something that helped me immensely in the early months post D-day (and well beyond, if I am honest.)
ReplyDeleteWhen i first found out, my imagination went into overdrive. I got pretty creative, even googling the hotel they stayed at so I could get a better image in my head. Yep. I was that bad.
What I created for myself was some emotional baggage the size of a Santa sack, and I was lugging that shit around all day, and most of the night. With the new found imagination and creativity his affair had released in me, I set about using them in less destructive ways.
When it all got too much and the mind movies started I would mentally throw them into the Santa sack (Dday was near christmas, can you tell??)
I would picture that sack in detail, the colour, the fabric, the stitching. Then...I started imagining that I put that sack down. Just for a little while. Long enough to go for a run, have a coffee or spend a few minutes with my kids without the sadness and emotional turmoil I was feeling. It was still there, growling in the corner, but that little bit of distance was a life saver.
After a while I could leave the sack parked for an hour, maybe more. Then I started to imagine the sack was shrinking. As time went by, as I talked to a therapist and to my husband I realised that I wasn't carrying such a weight, and I could fit all the crap into a reasonable sized rucksack. Sometimes I open up the rucksack, sometimes the bastard opens itself up when I am caught unawares BUT I am in CONTROL of it...I can give it a kick or I can put it down for a while if I need to. One day I hope it won't be there at all.
That is awesome that you can imagine it in a sack like that, Hazel. I wish I could figure out how to do that.
Delete